An actual pro-vaccine storyline? On ABC?

Woohoo! some of my favorite blogs are back in action!

Glad to see some pro-vaccine TV. As I said elsewhere, vaccines are such a safe, effective and low-cost preventive measure that nobody should be dying of vaccine-preventable disease.

Point is, Alan, that even if the vaccine doesn’t take in a small percentage of the population, but everyone has taken the vaccine, the disease can still be eradicated. Herd immunity. Viral diseases simply can’t spread or take hold if the percentage of susceptible people is very small. Problem in, say, the UK in recent years, thanks to Wakefield and his quackery, is that that percentage has now been exceeded, and measles is spreading again.

Good to see this show dealing with the issue responsibly.

Point is, Alan, that even if the vaccine doesn’t take in a small percentage of the population, but everyone has taken the vaccine, the disease can still be eradicated. Herd immunity. Viral diseases simply can’t spread or take hold if the percentage of susceptible people is very small. Problem in, say, the UK in recent years, thanks to Wakefield and his quackery, is that that percentage has now been exceeded, and measles is spreading again.

Good to see this show dealing with the issue responsibly.

Whu what happened?

I fell asleep halfway through scene 1.

OASN – It’s reported over here that there’ a surge in measles cases and it’s correlated with the low uptake of MMR. Why isn’t Wakefield in jail yet?

I can’t remember the exact quote but there’s a bit on House where House meets a woman who wants to not vaccinate her kid and he issues her with a cutting put-down…

Never mind. Looks to be the same one Epi Wonk took down last May. Carry on.

NBC’s ER did a vaccine storyline back in 2001. An unvaccinated child ultimately dies from the measles. The anti-vax crowd apparently went nuts. I was only slightly aware of the issue at the time, but I remember it caused quite a stir.

If this show is criticized as insensitive or heavy handed, what would the anti-vaccinationists say about their own methods of propaganda?

The difference between anti-vaccinationists’ claims and the claims of those who encourage the use of vaccines – vaccines are supported by science.

Anti-vaccinationists’ claims are supported by a misunderstanding of statistics. The same kind of misunderstanding that leads a person to gamble what they cannot afford to lose. They just know, or they have a can’t miss system, or some other demonstration of ignorance. Anti-vaccinationists are gambling with the lives of their children, the lives of other children, and the lives of those with weakened immune systems. The odds are against them. Eventually a lot of people will be killed by their ignorance.

The use of vaccines is also supported by history. How much of the increased life expectancy in the past 100 years is due to vaccines? The main reason life expectancy improves significantly is by a decrease in the deaths of infants and children.

Why are the anti-vaccinationists trying to kill infants and children?

Why do so many in the media seem to go along with the anti-vaccinationists’ plan to kill infants and children?

I’m glad to see a mainstream media taking a pro-vaccine stance. Nearly as glad as I am to see SCIENCEBLOGS BACK ON, WHOOOOOO!!!! 😀

eddie asks “Why isn’t Wakefield in jail yet?”

Well he hasn’t (yet) been charged with a criminal offence, in fact the GMC inquiry hasn’t even finished yet.

More to the point is why, in spite of the mountains of evidence that he is a liar and fraudster without an ounce of integrity, does he have so many supporters?

Thanks the post and for showing us transcript of the soap, orac. Warms the cockles of my heart to read it.

I enjoyed the show. I think the best course of action is to drown out the anti-vaxers. Post your support and try and catch a future episode of the show. Tell your friends to check out the episode (it’s available instantly). The best way to continue to get more realistic portrayals of vaccination is to show Hollywood they get more support when they get it right.

Brian: “Never mind. Looks to be the same one Epi Wonk took down last May. Carry on”

You mean this?

She examines the data and sees that in certain cohorts in her study population the distribution of autism isn’t quite what she would like. So she “imputes” autism cases into the data set. Except that she’s not imputing a value on a variable for an existing study participant. She’s adding imaginary autism cases into the analysis. This isn’t imputation — it’s cooking the data. Sorry folks, but when you have a data set that comes from the real world with certain number of cases and non-cases, the data are what they are.

From http://epiwonk.com/?p=55

I don’t think we should be pro or anti vaccine. I think we should worry about the HEALTH AND SAFETY of all children. I am not anti-vaccine, but I am not blindly trusting of the schedule that we have. The show was an awful one-sided view that was so obviously one-sided, it is going to hurt the vaccine side. Vaccines are not 100 percent safe (nothing is). I think that it is important to look at each child and their health and individuality to see what their bodies are healthy enough to handle. The MMR vaccine is 3 LIVE viruses injected at one time, into a 12 month old baby, and the same amount is injected into a 15 lb. baby as a 26 lb baby. That is not right. Personally I am vaccinating my child, but I am seperating out the MMR. It is a pain in the butt, but worth it to me, b/c he cousin had a severe reaction to the MMR. I don’t nec. know that the MMR causes AUTISM per say. but if parents are saying that it caused a reaction in their kids that mimics it, we need to pay attention. It is not only the mmr that babies have reactions to, it is Hep B, and all of the other ones. The APA and drs. need to take time with parents a create a schedule for each kid as an individual to limit risks and adverse reactions and make parents feel more comfortable if they truly want to see more people vaccinate. Measles was grossly portrayed as well. 1 in 1000 people die of measles statistically now, not the majority who get it. For someone to suggest that I am abusive to my child b/c I am giving his vaccines over time instead of all at once b/c I don’t think his immune system should deal with all of of those diseases at once, infuriates me. I respect anyone’s decision to vaccinate their child. Do not try to make me feel like a bad parent when I have done my research and seen adverse reactions to vaccines. It would be easy for the government and drs. and pharmacetical companies to take care of a lot of this angst if they would just make the seperated MMR Vaccines more readily available. That way parents could give them one at a time over a period of a few months and feel more comfortable with it. Last night’s show disgusted me though and I won’t be watching any abc shows again. It was incredibly offensive to me. No one knows better than a mother what affects their child and causes something, especially not a dr. who hadn’t noticed he hadn’t heard from them in 2 yrs.

I haven’t ever been able to make it through a full episode of PP, (not that I’ve tried that many times) but this plotline is definitely a refreshing counterpoint to the front page piece that appeared in my local newspaper yesterday: seems the vaccine compliance rates in my community are so low they’ve piqued the interest of the CDC (see “vaccine resisters attract attention” if you’re interested).

I’m feeling very helpless about how to combat this. Orac makes an excellent point about the futility of argument from authority, and in communities such as this one, there is a prevalent anti-establishment view that allows these and other woo-rich ideas to flourish.
I don’t believe vaccination against parents’ wishes is the answer either, but there’s got to be a more proactive way to deal with this dangerous nonsense on a community level without provoking accusations of Orwellian regimes.

“Anyone here want to comment on the date of the last measles fatality in the USA?”

I think we’re all busy commenting on the probable date of the next measles fatality, Jay.

I don’t think we should be pro or anti vaccine. I think we should worry about the HEALTH AND SAFETY of all children.

Doctors, public health experts and other people who are familiar with the medical literature and the safety record of vaccines are pro-vaccine because they are concerned with the health and safety of all children.

Vaccines are not 100 percent safe (nothing is).

Absolutely. The suggestion that 100% safety is a reasonable expectation of anything is insane. In real life, we consider the risks and benefits of everything we do–the foods we eat, where we live, how we entertain ourselves, and how we treat illness and protect ourselves from disease. And with vaccines, the risk-benefit relationship is overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination. Foods are not 100% safe. Is that an argument in favor of starvation?

I think that it is important to look at each child and their health and individuality to see what their bodies are healthy enough to handle.

This is done routinely. All normal children are able to handle vaccines, but the vaccine schedule is modified in the rare individual cases, such as immune deficiencies, where a child is not healthy enough to handle vaccination.

The MMR vaccine is 3 LIVE viruses injected at one time, into a 12 month old baby, and the same amount is injected into a 15 lb. baby as a 26 lb baby. That is not right.

Getting measles or mumps is not “right” either. So which is less right? All of the evidence indicates that the MMR carries negligible risk compared to the diseases that it protects against, so you’d need pretty strong evidence to support the claim that there is a benefit to delaying the vaccine sufficient to offset the risk of prolonging disease susceptibility.

Personally I am vaccinating my child, but I am seperating out the MMR. It is a pain in the butt, but worth it to me, b/c he cousin had a severe reaction to the MMR. I don’t nec. know that the MMR causes AUTISM per say.

It sounds to me as if you are taking an unnecessary risk. The MMR has been extensively used, and its high safety is well established, as is the fact that it does not cause autism. Are multiple vaccinations equally safe? One could certainly imagine that while the risk of vaccination is small, there might well some fixed risk with each injection, independent of the number of antigens included. You might well be exposing your kids to something like triple the risk of the MMR. It’s such a small risk anyway that it probably doesn’t much matter–triple a negligible risk is still pretty small. Nevertheless, I’m surprised that you would choose to experiment on your own children in this way.

Measles was grossly portrayed as well. 1 in 1000 people die of measles statistically now, not the majority who get it.

Would you find that a great comfort if that was your child that died or was mentally disabled from measles, especially considering that there was likely no benefit to avoiding or delaying the vaccination that might have saved your child’s life? After all, the frequency of adverse reactions to vaccines is much, much lower than 1 in 1000.

Dumb.

Unintelligent, factually-absurd, sensationalizing TV show.

Orac, how on earth do you have time to waste on this?

Next thing we know, you’ll be analyzing the double entendre in “Sponge Bob.”

Anyone here want to comment on the date of the last measles fatality in the USA?

But, Dr. Jay, the episode may seem sensationalistic now, but, believe me, if you and Jenny keep up your current efforts, all too soon this episode may not seem nearly as ridiculous as it seems to you now. Indeed, it may seem like a “ripped from the headlines” storyline.

By the way, I notice that you have not bothered to comment on three posts that may interest you. First, one by me commenting on your appearance on The Doctors:

https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2008/12/run_dont_walk_from_these_doctors.php

And one by Dr. Steve Novella:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=301

And one by someone we all “know and love”:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=256

Since you’ve decided to start commenting on blogs again, perhaps you would do me the solid of poping over to those posts and letting Steve, me, and a “friend” know your opinion.

Jay Gordon:

Next thing we know, you’ll be analyzing the double entendre in “Sponge Bob.”

Yah. Serious MDs don’t bother with fluffy TV prolefeed and all that celebrity nonsense.

I have an acquaintance whose oldest child had a severe allergic reaction to the MMR vaccine. She discussed the risk factors with her pediatrician, and they decided not to vaccinate her other children. (I’m not privy to all the details here, so don’t ask me.)

One of the major factors in this decision? Since other parents DO vaccinate their children, the chance of her children being exposed is small. Now, if you were this woman, what would your stance be on other people vaccinating their children? Rationally, you’d be for it, wouldn’t you? As the mother of three of the small percentage of children for whom vaccines are likely to be dangerous? So all the other children, for whom vaccines are safe, really SHOULD get them, to keep her kids from getting sick?

Nope. She’s out evangelizing about how bad her kid’s reaction was, and why other people shouldn’t do it. The stupid, it burns.

“Jay Gordon”: “Anyone here want to comment on the date of the last measles fatality in the USA?”

To follow up on what another poster cited, here’s more from the CDC:

“Although ongoing measles transmission was declared eliminated in the United States in 2000” (one guess how that happened, “Jay”) “and in the World Health Organization (WHO) Region of the Americas in 2002 (2), approximately 20 million cases of measles occur each year worldwide. The 2008 upsurge in measles cases serves as a reminder that measles is still imported into the United States and can result in outbreaks unless population immunity remains high through vaccination. Among the 64 confirmed measles cases (from 1/1/08 through 4/25/08), prior vaccination could be documented for only one person.”

(Read that over again. 63 of the 64 measles cases involved individuals who were known to be unvaccinated or had no documented vaccination.)

“Before introduction of measles vaccination in 1963, approximately 3 to 4 million persons had measles annually in the United States; approximately 400–500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis (1). Even after elimination of endemic transmission in 2000, imported measles has continued to create a substantial U.S. public health burden; of the 501 measles cases reported during 2000–2007, one in four patients was hospitalized, and one in 250 died (1).”

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57e501a1.htm

So there are some answers for you. Having nostalgia for the good old days?

Personally, I have major doubts that the person posting here as “Jay Gordon” is really Jay Gordon M.D., Jenny McCarthy’s pediatrician and celebrity antivax doctor. No pediatrician could possibly be this clueless about preventable infectious diseases and immunization, could they?

The real Dr. Gordon should step up and repudiate this apparent impostor. Jay, he’s making you look really, really bad. 🙁

To follow up on what another poster cited, here’s more from the CDC:

Facts have a pro-vaccine bias.

Anyone here want to comment on the date of the last measles fatality in the USA?

CDC Wonder is currently only searchable to 2004 [1], but there were about one per year up to 2003 (including one in 2003.

It’s scary that someone is giving parents medical advice about diseases but doesn’t even keep up with the MMWR summaries.

[1] Ask Dr. Gerberding about that one.

@Mike, the episode of House where Dr. House makes the cutting remark about not vaccinating is the season one episode “Paternity” (ep. 102).

In a minor storyline, Dr. House is doing a clinic consult for a baby whose mother repeats a Big Pharma canard as a reason for not vaccinating. House tells her, “The antibodies in yummy mummy only protect the kid for 6 months, which is why these companies think they can gouge you. They think that you’ll spend whatever they ask to keep your kid alive. Want to change things? Prove them wrong. A few hundred parents like you decide they’d rather let their kid die then cough up 40 bucks for a vaccination, believe me, prices will drop REALLY fast.”

I have read with interest the commentary on autism and immunization – I wonder if someone with more time than I would look into the outlandish claims being made by Dr. Whitaker at the url listed above – I practice medicine on a daily basis in the gp/fp arena and believe in what I do – to have these kinds of quacks (Jenny) try to upset the cart and throw the whole ball of wax out the door with the bath water is driving me nuts – I do think there is some question as to the amount of corruption in the system we are operating in today re the fda and the cdc and or government in general being backed by big pharma and will look forward to any forthcoming discussion re outlandish claims supplanting evidence based practices.

It appears the email address is not posted with your name but the url is – put the email in both this time

Hi High-Ya,

I checked your link. I see, “Energy Essentials Plus” on sale for $89.96. The ad says, “Natural, drikable energy to help with your New Year’s resolution to exercise. Energy Essentials Plus helps:

– Enhance direct energy production
– Increase endurance
– Improve blood flow and oxygenation to your muscles
– Support peak performance and reduce recovery time

Comments:
– The ad doesn’t describe what’s in this product.
– “Energy” is vague.
– “Enhance” is vague.
– I suppose “endurance” could be operationally defined as minutes on a treadmill at a certain speed. Something similar might be done for “peak performance” and “recovery time.” We don’t know if any studies with adequate controls were done to support these claims.
– It’s a bit redundant, claiming to increase blood flow and oxygenation. I wonder how blood flow to muscles was measured.

Why not write to Dr. Whitaker and ask for the published, peer reviewed research in support of these claims?

Gosh, this is off topic.

Well High-Ya, I found if I clicked on the ad, I went to a more detailed page which says that Energy Essentials Plus is ATP or adenosine triphosphate.

I’m skeptical this product improves excercise performance, as I don’t see how oral ATP might help. It would be immediately hydrolized to ADP in the gut.

Further, 1 glucose molecule can generate 36 ATP molecules via the Kreb’s cycle. So if you’d like more ATP in your mitochondria, eat some glucose.

But excercise physiology isn’t my area of expertise. Perhaps extracellular ADP does something.

And, no surprise, Jay sez: “I am a big fan of homeopathic remedies”

Well that’s quite helpful, in the same way “I have rabies” is helpful.

“I like homeopathy” is a coded way of saying, “I am delusional.”

Using Google Advanced searching techniques, I found this on his website:
http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/faqs/faq040.asp
Where he says “I am a big fan of homeopathic remedies including teething tablets, arnica for wounds and pain, pulsatilla for earaches and sinus congestion and Boiron’s “Cold Calm” for scratchy throats. I recommend Nux Vomica for tummy aches and also suggest weak “tummy teas” like peppermint and chamomile. I do NOT recommend anti-nausea suppositories for children or teens because they can mask the signs of serious illness. Persistent vomiting and stomach pain require a phone call or doctor visit.”

The search brought up a few more incidences .
of “homoepathic” on Dr. Jay’s webstite:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=homeopathic+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fdrjaygordon.com%2F&btnG=Search

Dangerous Bacon: you said “Personally, I have major doubts that the person posting here as “Jay Gordon” is really Jay Gordon M.D….”, looking at Dr. Jay’s website, I am afraid that even if Dr. Jay did not post idiocy here, his idiocy would be evident from the website (look at the HIV hit from the search link above).

Orac:

And one by someone we all “know and love”:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=256

Speak for yourself. While I enjoy your writing and writing style, I think the writer you claim we all “know and love” is full of shit. I much rather read your blog then waste time reading him.

@Danimal: Re: “While I enjoy your writing and writing style, I think the writer you claim we all “know and love” is full of shit. I much rather read your blog then waste time reading him.”
I can only hope you are kidding. If the clues were much more obvious, the cluebat would know you out otherwise.

Where he says “I am a big fan of homeopathic remedies including teething tablets, arnica for wounds and pain, pulsatilla for earaches and sinus congestion and Boiron’s “Cold Calm” for scratchy throats. I recommend Nux Vomica for tummy aches and also suggest weak “tummy teas” like peppermint and chamomile. “
Dr Gordon seems to be ignorant of the very large difference between homeopathy and herbalism. Herbal remedies such as chamomile tea and arnica use real, active ingredients; they aren’t as effective as synthesised pharmacuetical products, but they do have some effects. Homepathic remedies however are just very expensive water.
Don’t they teach this distinction at medical school?

Sophia8 writes:

Sophia, there are books – medical textbooks, mainly – full of the things that Dr. Gordon appears to be ignorant of.

Dr. Gordon seems to have developed an aversion to any knowledge that he hasn’t personally acquired through his vast experience as pediatrician to the stars or from listening to parents like Jenny McCarthy. That’s the only explanation I can come up with for his eyes-closed-fingers-in-ears approach to vaccines.

Since he hasn’t seen anyone killed or disabled by measles, measles is not a serious disease, in his vast experience. I suspect he used to have the same attitude about HIV, but he’s since had a little experience with that one…

As for “Dr. Jay” tut-tutting about the way other people spend their free time, I’d say that it’s really none of his business. If he feels threatened enough to comment about it, he should ask himself why it bothers him so much.

Perhaps he feels uneasy about his role in decreasing the immunity of the community. Maybe he’s worried about how the community will view his “not-antivaccination-but-reluctant-to-vaccinate” efforts when (not if) an outbreak strikes his clientele.

Rather than “concern-trolling” ‘bloggers, perhaps Dr. Gordon should examine his own actions.

Prometheus

you all need to have your heads examined…. ever heard of Hannah Poling??? Mitochondrial Dysfunction? Adverse reactions? Variation in Immune reponse?? There are over 5000 vaccine injury cases where kids developed “autistic symptoms” waiting to be heard in vaccine court…adverse reactions CAN and DO happen even to those who are pro-vaccine. Read the VAERS reports. What’s more important the safety of ALL kids or protecting a broken immunization program that’s resulted in the erosion of the public’s trust thanks to the likes of Gerberding and her ilk.

you all need to have your heads examined…. ever heard of Hannah Poling??? Mitochondrial Dysfunction? Adverse reactions? Variation in Immune reponse?? There are over 5000 vaccine injury cases where kids developed “autistic symptoms” waiting to be heard in vaccine court…adverse reactions CAN and DO happen even to those who are pro-vaccine. Read the VAERS reports. What’s more important the safety of ALL kids or protecting a broken immunization program that’s resulted in the erosion of the public’s trust thanks to the likes of Gerberding and her ilk.

Wow — a one-paragraph Gish gallop.

you all need to have your heads examined…. ever heard of Hannah Poling???

Indeed. The government conceded that it was more likely than not that vaccines exacerbated her underlying condition. What’s your point? The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program exists because Congress acknowledged that vaccines will injure a very small percentage of children.

There are over 5000 vaccine injury cases where kids developed “autistic symptoms” waiting to be heard in vaccine court…adverse reactions CAN and DO happen even to those who are pro-vaccine.

I don’t think anyone has denied that some children have adverse reactions to vaccines. Again, this is why the VICP exists. That 5,000 families have confused correlation with causation is evidence of confusion and nothing more, legally (and probably scientifically) speaking. Anyone can file a claim, just like anyone can submit a VAERS report.

I don’t watch much network television (‘The Simpsons’ are pretty much it). But the YouTube link to this episode made the rounds at my office. They make their point and all, but did they have to go and make the county health department look like a bunch of priggish pedants? I mean JEEBUS! Really, do people hate Public Health that much???

The scriptwriters got the message regarding vaccination right… but I am appalled that *nobody* here has taken time to take them down for their perpetuation of the doom-mongering language so frequently used about autistic people.

Her oldest son sure as f— did *not* seem “lost” to me. Yes, he looked stereotypically autistic. But autistic people are not “lost”.

The mother says that about him, in front of him. Just like Alison Tepper Singer’s infamous drive-off-the-GW-bridge comment, in front of *her* daughter, in “Autism Every Day”. *And it goes unchallenged, and therefore tacitly agreed with by the medical people.*

You want to know what *really* drives the stupid to burn in so many places, what *really* drives all these parents into the arms of the quacks? *It’s the continued drumbeat of dread-and-doom about autism.* The quacks win any time they can sell FUD — fear, uncertainty, and doubt. And legitimate clinicians have to start *breaking rank* with that drumbeat, and respond to parents about *legitimate* steps they can take to give their autistic kids better outcomes. *Even if it’s beyond the scope of medicine.* Because it sure as f— isn’t beyond the scope of bedside manner.

If *I* were advising those scriptwriters, that doc to whom the mother says “I’ve already lost one child” would tell her in no uncertain terms that *she has not*… and that he can set her up with resources to improve his outcome. I’d have the doc tell her: “You know he is hearing you say that and he may not be able to talk, but dollars to donuts he *understands* what you are saying. So you need to stop saying that. And one of the things we need to get you set up with is folks who can leverage the abilities he *does* have, like receptive speech and the ability to point, to start him on basic preliteracy skills, picture systems, and independent keyboarding, to give him the means he deserves to communicate and to bootstrap his ability to proceed with formal education.”

But nooooo. We can’t have autism painted as less than the tragedy that the marketing model of not only the quacks but the *mainstream autism organizations* requires in order to be effective.

If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always gotten. *This goes for the good guys in the vaccine wars, like the supporters of this blog, as well as for the bad guys.*

If you really want to deflate the antivaxers’ and quacks’ balloon, before they sucker too much more of the population into wrecking herd immunity, you’re going to have to get your clinical peers to *change their f—ing message* about autism to their patients.

Unless you really *like* playing whack-a-mole with JB and Jenny and whatever shiny celeb they recruit next, until you all are ready to retire.

The quacks know how to sell false hope. One of the worst places the stupid burns IMHO, in terms of *real consequences*, is among *legitimate* clinicians who *could* sell *real* hope, and don’t.

Paul Murray said “Anyone got anything more recent?”

Look up the thread. There is a table where I found one in 2003 (CDC Pink Book Appendix G). I also listed a Mortality and Morbidity report of the damage done by mumps a couple of years ago.

Also, here is the full link of the paper I referenced but failed to put the link on because of the URL limit:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=8855680

You are right. We are going about it all wrong in this debate. We need to start demanding that doctors and nurses receive every vaccine that they demand necessary for our children. When they see the damage in their own families, they will then realize how stupid they were to think that vaccines were safe and effective.

HCN: are you still on that stupid kick? Show us that vaccines are safe and effective please. Where is the science in all of your scientific blabbering?

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

Dangerous Bacon said “Now that you’re aware of this, I hope you will at least stop repeating this particular antivax lie.”

I don’t think that would happen. Just recently I saw someone posting the “Japan reduced the rate of SIDS by stopping the DTP vaccine”. Unfortunately, they were not told that the reason the SIDS “rate” went down was that the 41 deaths in 1979 were due to pertussis and could no longer be blamed on the vaccine (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15889991?). I will not place bets on whether that the same person will be swayed and not continue to post that same myth.

Also, this morning I read Dr. Hall’s most recent posting on “Playing by the Rules” on ScienceBasedMedicine. In the comments someone posted this very true cartoon:
http://cectic.com/069.html

We need to start demanding that doctors and nurses receive every vaccine that they demand necessary for our children. When they see the damage in their own families, they will then realize how stupid they were to think that vaccines were safe and effective

I’ve pretty much been vaccinated for every disease that I haven’t had already. I haven’t had the HPV vaccine because when I asked for it my gyn started laughing and saying that if I wasn’t already infected at 40 (I’m not–extreme nerdism has its advantages) I was so low risk that it would be a waste of perfectly good adjuvant to vaccinate me at this point. No damage. Well, no, that’s not entirely true. I got a fever after taking the second of a planned three shot series for FSME. Despite its being an expensive vaccine, my doctor advised me to not take the third shot. I guess she didn’t get the memo on maximizing profits through dangerous vaccinations, huh, dawn?

the HPV vaccine is only approved for women under 20-something. I just read somewhere that the request to raise the age limit was recently rejected.

True, but not all meds are used as they are officially approved…but double the recommended age is apparently just pushing it too much.

Did you know that chemicals destroy your ability to think logically? In fact, the vast majority of our children in school today have tremendous difficulty with abstract reasoning. That probably explains why we need foreigners to fill our colleges and universities, huh? So, basically I’ve been wasting an enormous amount of time here on this board these past so many months. I read that a great portion of MDs, chemists, scientists, etc. also do drugs and drown their sorrows with booze. I am guessing that is a big fat “yes”….based on all of your sorry responses. Some of you just cannot think outside of the box. That’s sad. Some of you though, know exactly who your employer is – and good for you. NO conscience, keep the money rolling, and keep pumping those kids and adults full of toxins. Maybe they will get a clue when Autism effects 1 in every 2 children. Then again, if they are really as stupid as I think they are, maybe they won’t.

Dawn, I also was vaccinated beyond the required childhood vaccines so that I could work with human cell culture.

You could attempt to inform yourself before you display your ignorance.

Your such a fu_ken Nazi Low Life if you believe that VACCINES dont cause AUTISM. I can prove it! I would love to meet you!

Respectfully I am a mom of a Child named Joshua Luke Ramsey who did Pass Away Due to congenital Rubella Syndrome due to MMR in Utero.. This by the way does happen and it is my reality. The CDC and FDA can say what they want but it does however effect the siblings, parents, and family members who are in the network of caregiving and loving individuals as they are here with us.. IMMUNIZATIONS cary more than our community is aware.. There is a total risk with immunizations.. I know this first hand..

I am sorry for your loss, but I a few questions about your comment:

1) Why do you post this on a eight month old posting, when there are more recent and relevant posts on this blog to post that comment on?

2) From the CDC Pink Book Chapter on measles, page 170:

Women known to be pregnant should not receive measles vaccine. Pregnancy should be avoided for 4 weeks following MMR vaccine.

So it would seem that there is a known risk for getting the MMR while pregnant. How did the MMR get administered in utero?

3) From the CDC Pink Book Chapter on rubella, page 18

Women who are pregnant or who intend to become pregnant within 4 weeks should not receive rubella vaccine. ACIP recommends that vaccine providers ask a woman if she is pregnant or likely to become pregnant in the next 4 weeks. Those who are pregnant or intend to become pregnant should not be vaccinated

… snip …

CDC maintained a registry from 1971 to 1989 of women vaccinated during pregnancy. This was called the Vaccine in Pregnancy (VIP) Registry.

…snip…

The observed risk of vaccine-induced malformation was 0%, with a maximum theoretical risk 1.6%, based on 95% confidence limits (1.2% for all types of rubella vaccine). Since the risk of the vaccine to the
fetus appears to be extremely low, if it exists at all, routine termination of pregnancy is not recommended. Individual counseling for these women is recommended. As of April 30, 1989, CDC discontinued the VIP registry.

and in concludes:

The ACIP continues to state that because of the small theoretical risk to the fetus of a vaccinated woman, pregnant women should not be vaccinated.

Were you not told this, and not given the counseling?