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Mercury in vaccines as a cause of autism and ASD: A failed hypothesis

i-e7a12c3d2598161273c9ed31d61fe694-ClassicInsolence.jpgUnfortunately, as we have been dreading for the last four months or so since her relapse was diagnosed, my mother-in-law passed away from breast cancer in hospice. She died peacefully, with my wife and the rest of her family at her side. As you might expect, I do not much feel like blogging. Because I foresaw this day coming, however, I did set up a series of “Best of” reposts to autopost for you while I am in mourning. Some I have even updated and/or spiffed up with actual editing. If you’ve been reading less than a year or two, they’re new to you. If not, I hope you enjoy them again. I don’t know when I’ll be back, other than maybe a brief update or two. It could be a couple of days; it could be a couple of weeks.

Blogging on Peer-Reviewed ResearchOne of the most pernicious medical myths of recent years has been the claim, promulgated by a subgroup of parents of autistic children and facilitated by scientists of dubious repute, that somehow the mercury in the thimerosal (ethyl mercury) preservative used in common childhood vaccines in the U.S. until early 2002 causes autism. Although it had been percolating under the radar of most parents and scientists for several years before, this belief invaded the national zeitgeist in a big way in 2005, beginning with the publication of a book by journalist David Kirby entitled Evidence of Harm: Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic: A Medical Controversy. The fires of hysteria were stoked even higher by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who published a truly twisted and misleading piece of pseudojournalism and pseudoscience published simultaneously in Rolling Stone and on Salon.com entitled Deadly Immunity. Relying primarily on quote-mining of the transcripts of both a conference held Atlanta by the CDC to discuss the question of whether autism is related to thimerosal in vaccines and an Institute of Medicine report on vaccines while simultaneously misrepresenting the results of two studies by Verstaeten et al to paint a false picture of a government coverup, RFK Jr. almost single-handedly managed to stoke fears that vaccines were causing an “epidemic of autism.”

I say “almost” single-handedly, because, unfortunately, he had help. Relying on the dubious research of a variety of investigators, such as the father-and-son team of Dr. Mark Geier and David Geier, whose prodigious output of badly designed studies emanating from a lab in their home in suburban Maryland, done using a rubberstamp institutional review board stacked with friends and cronies to approve the studies, and published for the most part in non-peer-reviewed journals, activists loudly insisted that mercury in vaccines was the cause of most autism. Others claiming to demonstrate this link include Boyd Haley, a chemist from the University of Kentucky, and a few other vocal scientists and advocates, who claim that autism is, in essence, mercury poisoning. Facilitating the dissemination of this message were reporters such as David Kirby, activists such as Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and media personalities such as Don Imus. Indeed, some activists claimed that some vaccines were “poisoning” our children, even going so far as show photos of autistic children with the label “mercury-poisoned“ underneath them on placards held aloft at protest rallies. They made quite a splash then, and still do to a lesser extent even today. There’s just one problem.

The scientific data, taken in totality, do not support a link between mercury in vaccines and autism. Today yet another important study by Robert Schechter and Judith Grether was released published in the Archives of General Psychiatry entitled Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System: Mercury in Retrograde1, that utterly failed to support the hypothesis that mercury in vaccines is an etiological factor in autism. It is yet another nail in the coffin of the medical myth that mercury in vaccines causes autism.

Before I discuss this new study in more detail, a bit of background is in order. In response to the FDA Modernization Act of 1997, prior to the hypothesis that thimerosal might cause autism the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) compiled a list of vaccines and how much thimerosal they contained. Thimerosal had been commonly used to prevent microbial contamination of vaccines, particularly multidose vials, since the 1930s. It could be reasonably argued that, given the more lax standards of the time, thimerosal had not been adequately tested before use in humans, but decades of use after that had, as far as could be discerned, revealed only occasional skin hypersensitivity reactions due to this component. By 1999, under the recommended schedule of childhood vaccines at the time, concern was expressed that infants, before six months of age, were potentially being exposed to cumulative doses of ethyl mercury that may have exceeded safety standards. It should be noted that these safety standards were based on an indirect surrogate of ethyl mercury, namely methyl mercury, and largely in the absence of any real data. In July 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the U.S. Public Health Service decided, as a precaution, to recommend that thimerosal be removed as soon as possible from childhood vaccines.

It did not take long for this recommendation to be implemented. By March 2001, all vaccines in the recommended infant vaccination schedule were available in forms that had at most traces of thimerosal left over from the manufacturing process. The last lots of childhood vaccines with thimerosal had expiration dates in 2002. Indeed, as Arthur Allen documented in his recent book Vaccine: The Controversial Story of Medicine’s Greatest Lifesaver, a survey of several hundred medical offices in February 2002 conducted by the CDC found that, of the three pediatric vaccines that contained thimerosal in the 1990s, only 2% of vaccine stock still contained thimerosal. Since then, with the exception of the flu vaccine, no childhood vaccine in the U.S. has contained more than trace amounts of thimerosal. There has been considerable debate over whether the decision to remove thimerosal was undertaken too quickly. True, at the time it seemed like a prudent, cautious step. However, the decision had unintended consequences. One was that it resulted in a temporary shortage of childhood vaccines. More importantly, though, it fed the fears of activists that the mercury in vaccines must really be harmful. After all, if it weren’t harmful, why would the AAP and PHS recommend its removal?

Why indeed? The use of this precautionary measure, which to health officials seemed prudent at that time, as justification for attacking the safety of vaccines is as good an example of how no good deed goes unpunished as I’ve ever seen. Many parents, faced with the enormous challenge of raising autistic children, not unreasonably wondered whether there was something wrong with vaccines in the first place.

The second bit of background information that you need to know is that, over the last couple of decades, the incidence of autism and autism spectrum disorder (ASD) has increased markedly to an estimated 1 in 150 children. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and others who believe that mercury in vaccines somehow cause autism have referred to this increase as an “autism epidemic” (or, more offensively, as an “autism tsunami“) and frequently claim that there must be an environmental factor that has led to this increase. Because the symptoms of autism, such as cognitive delay and withdrawal from interaction with parents, often manifest themselves between one and three years of age and because this is the age when children receive the bulk of their vaccines, there is a correlation. However, correlation does not necessarily equal causation. It may, but often it does not. Often the correlation is spurious, unrelated, or related to a common factor. More investigation is always required to determine if an apparent correlation is or is not due to causation. In the case of autism, there is good evidence, most recently published by Paul Shattuck2, that increased awareness and diagnostic substitution since the criteria for a diagnosis of ASD were broadened in 1994 account for the apparent increase in diagnoses of autism, as pointed out by Arthur Allen and Roy Grinker.

Regarding the question of vaccines and autism, for ethical reasons we cannot do a double-blind, randomized, control trial of vaccines with and without thimerosal. However, we can do the next best thing, and, indeed, we now have several good studies since 1999 that do just that. Some of these studies are epidemiological; some are ecological. What allows us to use them to reject the hypothesis that mercury in vaccines is an etiological agent that is either associated with or causes autism is a very simple but powerful prediction that the hypothesis makes. Quite simply, if the hypothesis is true and thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs) cause autism (or are even merely a significant contributing factor), we would expect that the removal of thimerosal from vaccines would lead to a rapid decrease in autism incidence and prevalence within 2-5 years.

There have now been several studies that examined this very hypothesis in countries that removed thimerosal from their vaccines before the U.S. did. For example Hviid et al3 reported that autism prevalence in Denmark increased from 1991 to 1996 despite the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, while Madsen et al4 looked at the time period from 1971 to 2000 and concluded that autism diagnoses continued to increase after thimerosal was removed from vaccines. Neither study supported a causal link between TCVs and autism, and they were a prominent part of the dataset that was used by the Institute of Medicine to conclude in 2004 that there was no good evidence to support a link between TCVs and autism. A more recent study by Eric Fombonne5 in Montreal examined 27,749 children born from 1987 to 1998 attending 55 different schools. Cumulative thimerosal exposure by age 2 years was calculated for the 1987-1998 birth cohorts. This exposure ranged from 100-125 μg from 1987 to 1991, 200-225 μg from 1992 to 1995, and then none after 1996, which was when thimerosal was completely removed from vaccines in Canada. The result was that autism, ASD, and pervasive developmental disorder diagnoses continued to increase in all periods, demonstrating no relationship between TCVs and autism or ASDs. Even more recently, a large study6 failed to support a relationship between thimerosal and adverse neurodevelopmental outcomes, a result that led one of the investigators in the study, Sallie Bernard, a proponent of the thimerosal hypothesis, to disavow the study in a case of sour grapes, because it did not show what she had hoped that it would show.

We are now nearly six years out from the near-complete removal of thimerosal from vaccines. Other than the flu vaccine, there is no more than trace thimerosal in any childhood vaccine; overall mercury exposure due to vaccines has not been this low in decades. Consequently this hypothesis can now be tested in the United States. In a deliciously ironic twist, Schechter and Grether1 chose to use a source of data that has frequently been widely abused by advocates claiming a link between TCVs and autism to try to show one where there isn’t one as though the conclusions were foreordained. Although it is probably not, it has even been referred to as the “gold standard” of autism epidemiology by none other than David Kirby. Indeed, this is the very same database in which David Kirby predicted that there should be a noticeable decrease in new diagnoses of autism by 2007 if the thimerosal hypothesis is true and then later shifted the goalposts to 2011 when it became apparent that there has been no decrease. This source is the California Department of Developmental Services (CDDS) database. The CDDS administers a statewide system of regional centers and developmental centers designed to serve people who are substantially disabled because of autism, mental retardation, or other developmental disabilities. It maintains an archive file of client developmental evaluation reports on clients enrolled in the system. Among the strengths of the system are that it is a population-based system representing the most populous state in the U.S. Moreover, the client reporting form was consistent throughout the study period, preventing confounders due to changes in reporting. The weaknesses of the CDDS is that its data is derived from an administrative system that was designed to track enrollment and fiscal data and is not as well suited to measuring the occurrence of developmental disabilities in the population. However, with proper statistical analysis, considerable information can still be gleaned from this data for specific birth cohorts.

In order to ask the question of whether autism rates had declined, Schechter and Grether examined data for clients with active status reported from January 1, 1995 to March 31, 2007. Using careful statistical analyses, they used two approaches to measure the occurrence of ASD during this period. The second approach, in which ASD prevalence was determined in the 3 to 5 year old cohort, is perhaps the most informative. It shows a continuing increase in autism prevalence without even a blip or decrease in the rate of increase after 2002. Indeed, showing the skill of some bloggers to analyze the same data, the money figure in the paper (Figure 3) looks almost exactly the same as the graph prepared in early 2007, a continually increasing curve since 1995. This result is not only consistent with multiple other published and unpublished studies, including the aforementioned Danish and Canadian studies7, but it is about as unambiguous evidence as can be obtained from a database like the CDDS database. Indeed, despite the limitations of the use of this database, it is an excellent example of proponents of a “mercury injury” hypothesis of autism being “hoisted by their own petard,” so to speak. Indeed, Eric Fombonne, in a blistering editorial8 that accompanies this study, agrees:

The particular significance of the study by Schechter and Grether is that it relies on the California Department of Developmental Services database, which has been systematically used by proponents of the thimerosal hypothesis to argue that the rising number of children accessing these services– or the “epidemic” of autism– was linked to the increasing exposure to ethylmercury of US children occurring in the 1990s through the changes in the immunization schedule. To the contrary, the data analyzed by Schechter and Grether9 provide a clear and unambiguous test that shows that the expected decline in autism rates following discontinuation of thimerosal in US vaccines did not occur.

Noting that, “with the exception of studies conducted by a single pair of authors” (with uncharacteristic restraint Fombonne does not name whom he obviously meant, namely Mark and David Geier), all studies done have thus far failed to find a link between TCVs and autism, Fombonne continues:

Despite the accumulation of scientific evidence rejecting these 2 hypotheses linking autism to various components of childhood vaccines, these theories and the practices that accompany them have not faded away. Why? How many more negative study results are required for the belief to go away, and how much more spending of public funds on this issue could even be justified?

He then postulates an explanation that I happen to agree with:

Outside academic circles, powerful advocacy groups developed and started to lobby decision makers to influence decisions about which autism research to fund and even how to conduct it. Unaware of scientific studies, or worse, doubtful of their results, bestselling writers, journalists, and politicians were drawn to embrace conspiracy theories that portrayed vaccine manufacturers and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as public enemies.15 Law firms saw an opportunity to obtain large financial compensations from the US Vaccine Injury Compensation Court or before local federal courts, the viscous US legal process allowing for fermentation of misconceptions. Exploiting further families’ beliefs and their understandable desire to try everything possible to help their children, charlatans developed alternative (and lucrative) “treatments” for autism, which included chelation therapy, use of a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, and testosterone suppression. All are of unproven efficacy, and many are dangerous.

In other words, it’s all about obtaining compensation for nonexistent “vaccine injury” and “biomedical treatments” for this injury. Never mind that these “treatments” are neither scientifically plausible nor have convincing evidence in the form of well-designed clinical trials to support their efficacy in ameliorating the cognitive delays observed in autistic children. Unfortunately, parents who love their autistic children and desperately want to do something to “make them better” are fertile ground for the blandishments of proponents of these implausible and unproven “therapies.” Some of these treatments, such as chelation therapy, which, it is claimed, will remove the mercury that, according to proponents of the thimerosal hypothesis, is the root cause of autism, have developed into veritable cottage industries that prey on desperate parents. It has even progressed to the point where the Geiers can convince some parents that most autistic children exhibit signs of “precocious puberty” and that the elevated testosterone in such children forms “sheets” that bind mercury and prevent it from being chelated properly. As hard as it is to believe, they then use that claim as a justification for using powerful anti-androgenic drugs such as Lupron on autistic children to treat their autism.

Vaccination is arguably the most effective single public health intervention ever developed. As recently as 50 years ago, for example, our parents and grandparents lived in deathly fear of diseases like polio, which is virtually a thing of the past. Because they are preventative in nature and administered to a very large population of healthy people, vaccines have a very high hurdle to jump as far as safety is concerned, because when an intervention is performed on millions of otherwise healthy people, even a low rate of complications can result in large numbers of injured people. Modern vaccines have achieved that level of safety. Are they completely safe? Nothing in medicine is absolutely, 100% safe. In comparison to the risk of the diseases they prevent and by any reasonable standard, the risks due modern vaccines are extremely low. Moreover, the claims of proponents of an increasingly untenable hypothesis to the contrary, there is no convincing evidence that thimerosal-containing vaccines, or vaccines in general, have anything to do with the etiology of autism. Whatever tiny risk there may be from childhood vaccines, autism and ASDs are not among them. Indeed, even before this study by Schechter and Grether, under the onslaught of studies that all fail to find a link between thimerosal and autism, even David Kirby and those more zealous than him were starting to back away from the hypothesis, invoking hand-waving and vague “environmental toxins” or even going so far as to blame mercury from pollution wafting over from China or, even more ludicrously, mercury from the cremation of bodies with mercury amalgam dental fillings. Meanwhile, in the wake of this study, Mark Blaxill is retreating to saying that “the epidemiological analysis doesn’t prove that thimerosal exposure cannot cause individual cases of autism” and blaming vaccines in general for autism (while also not being able to wait for the embargo to try to put his spin on the matter, by the way).

This study is clearly but one more nail in the coffin of this dying hypothesis. Unfortunately, like Jason in the Friday the 13th movies, the hypothesis that mercury in vaccines is a major cause of autism just refuses to die, no matter how many studies fail to find even a wisp of a link between the two. Just when you think it’s finally, really dead, it has an unpleasant way of being resurrected. That’s why it is not difficult to predict that the usual suspects will refuse to believe it, just as they have refused to believe the studies preceding it.

REFERENCES:

  1. Schechter R and JK Grether (2008). Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 65: 19-24.
  2. Shattuck P (2006). The Contribution of Diagnostic Substitution to the Growing Administrative Prevalence of Autism in US Special Education. Pediatrics 117:1028-1037.
  3. Hviid A, M Stellfeld, J. Wohlfahrt, and M Melbye (2003). Association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism. JAMA 290:1763-1766.
  4. Madsen KM, MB Lauritsen, CB Pedersen, P Thorsen, AM Plesner, PH Andersen, PB Mortensen (2003). Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence From Danish Population-Based Data. Pediatrics 112:604-6.
  5. Fombonne E, R Zakarian, A Bennett, L Meng, D. McLean-Heywood (2006). Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links With Immunizations. Pediatrics 118:e139-50.
  6. Thompson WW, C Price, B Goodson, DK Shay, P Benson, VL Hinrichsen, E Lewis, E Eriksen, P Ray, SM Marcy, J Dunn, LA Jackson, TA Lieu, S Black, G Stewart, ES Weintraub, RL Davis, F DeStefano; Vaccine Safety Datalink Team (2007). Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years. NEJM 357:1281-1292.
  7. Parker SK, B Schwartz, J Todd, and LKPickering (2004). Thimerosal-containing vaccines and autistic spectrum disorder: a critical review of published original data. Pediatrics 114:793-804.
  8. Fombonne E (2008). Thimerosal disappears but autism remains. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 65: 15-6.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

144 replies on “Mercury in vaccines as a cause of autism and ASD: A failed hypothesis”

We hope to really find a cure and that is long, say the same thing and so far many people still suffer and can not find any solution, something that is fast and effective because the pain of this disease is unbearable, I read about this page http://www.findrxonline.com and interesting information I think we can give adequate information for people who need it.

Alfred is a spammer. After Orac deletes his comments, he should delete this one, too. I will not be offended.

However, I am offended by Alfred using Orac’s absence to spam the blog with an advert for an online drug pusher.

I like it when they use people like John Best for quotes. Anyone on the fence might do a search on him and find out what kind of person they are dealing with in the anti-vaxers. It’s almost as convincing as using the Larry King clip of Jenny McCarthy shouting down people (which they did in the story on TV).

Let’s face it, science proved them wrong, lawyers proved them wrong, and now news reporters are finally reporting facts instead of trumped up “controversy” and now the best they can offer is a bunch of “Nuh-uh” from people that behave like 12 year olds. The “debate” is over.

Oh please Orac. The only reason you are mourning your mother-in-law’s death is because you can no longer make money off her treatment. You don’t have me fooled. If you don’t give a crap about innocent children being harmed by vaccines, do you really think I believe that you give a crap about your cancer stricken mother-in-law?

Yes, these people blamed the mercury…that was their mistake. However, there are over 5,000 cases left in this same court. Be sure to tell your drug cartel that us parents are getting more unpleasant by the minute.

By the way Orac, stop slinging the same BS. Thimerosal has NEVER been removed from vaccines – only “lowered”.

Thank you, Dawn, for your public illustration of what sort of motives mercury militia people attribute to people who question their reasoning.

No doubt you will perceive this as a personal attack. It isn’t. It’s a comment on the thought process your comment reveals.

You see, to make your – quite offensive – statement with any validity, you would have to be able to read minds. The fact that you clearly assume your assumptions to be correct enough to assert in public in the face of all norms of polite discourse strongly suggests that you live deeply within the realm of magical thinking.

As a further observation, generally such accusations come out of perceptions of personal perceptions. In other words, this accusation is far more likely to be accurate – if addressed to yourself.

I suspect that Dawn’s last tirade will get her banned. Orac has only banned one other person, and it was for a similar bit of heartless idiocy.

Orac, please accept my condolences.

“… us parents are getting more unpleasant by the minute.” Well you got one thing right, Dawn. I hope that when you read your remarks in the sober light of day you will feel constrained to apologize.

Meanwhile, we parents who reject any causative role for vaccines in autism are heartened by the recent decision in the US Court of Federal Claims that rejected the MMR hypothesis and look forward to a similar outcome for the thiomersal hypothesis still before the court.

Oh. My. God. Dawn, I always thought you had some decency in you somewhere. You have just proved me wrong. What kind of heartless bitch would say such a thing. I too hope that Orac bans you now. Go vent your spleen on some other blog where the others will all agree with you.

Orac, sorry you had to be exposed to that Dawn level of mean and idiotic behavior in a time like this. Peace to you and your family.

Dawn, seriously – Please. Put. The. Bottle. Down.

Be sure to tell your drug cartel that us parents are getting more unpleasant by the minute.

No kidding, Dawn.

Orac,

Please accept my condolences for your family’s sad loss. Being a parent of a child with major and familial AS ( four family members and counting), I am ashamed to be on the same planet as ‘Dawn’.

Keep fighting the good fight!

I strongly suspect that Dawn is an unbalanced individual who badly needs mental health counseling. Would support a decision on Orac’s part to ban her from this site.

‘Be sure to tell your drug cartel that us parents are getting more unpleasant by the minute.’ Dawn

Well Dawn, I am a parent. I will get more unpleasant and say:
FUCK YOU. You are an idiot, and your children deserve a better parent than you.

Methinks you are looking for a compensatory handout.

Dawn, Again, you step over the line.

You should give up on the internet. You only do your side harm with your unhinged hatred.

It’s fairly obvious crazy Dawn is trying to get banned. It so she can claim that she was “silenced” to try and prove her conspiracy point. Apparently she had a false positive a while back after her drunken tirade of threatening to “find” people a while back. She posted on her blog about it, but then looked like a moron because apparently she wasn’t actually banned, she just fails at teh Interweb. She tipped her hand.

It’s like the anti-vax “manufactrovery” where people create the illusion of debate by citing their own craziness as proof the other side exists – she is trying to get banned so she can justify how her friends at AoA and other places silence critics. She will continue to say more and more offensive things until it happens.

If truth isn’t on your side you have to try to create the illusion of truth.

I hereby more that we, the loyal readers of RI, demand that Dawn be banned.

I am really sick of reading bile like she spews.

P.S. If anyone knows where she lives, having her children removed by Child Protective Services would be a good idea. Anyone who thinks like that is so ill that they cannot be expected to provide proper care.

I’m sorry to hear of your loss, Orac. I remember how it was to lose my mother and I empathize with you and your wife.

As for Dawn (crazy) – I think that it is past time for you to seek professional mental health care. Or, at the very least, ease up a point or two on the alcohol.

Your comment was reprehensible and only serves to show how far you and other people of your ilk have moved away from decency and sanity. What’s next for you – suicide bombings?

Prometheus

I admire your blog and am amazed at the depth you put into your postings. It is understandable a loss, even one known to be coming, will stifle your energy for outward activities. We can wait.

My sympathy to you and your wife, especially your wife for the loss of her mother.

Sincerely,
Sally

________________________________
Vaccines – They do a body good.

Did anybody else, on hearing Orac’s sad news, expect exactly this from Dawn?

Dawn, you have become a caricature of yourself. You aren’t shocking us, only confirming that you aren’t in touch with reality. Get help. Check yourself into rehab.

Folks, people like Dawn — who think that subjecting children to dangerous chelation therapy is somehow safer than vaccinating them with vaccines that contain a preservative that is used in miniscule amounts and leaves the body within days if not hours after entering it — can be easily dealt with on this and other blogs. Simply download a) Firefox and b) the Greasemonkey app called ‘killfile’. Bingo!

Oh please Orac. The only reason you are mourning your mother-in-law’s death is because you can no longer make money off her treatment. You don’t have me fooled. If you don’t give a crap about innocent children being harmed by vaccines, do you really think I believe that you give a crap about your cancer stricken mother-in-law?

Congratulations, Dawn. I thought no one could outdo John Best for vileness, but you’ve done it. Sometimes someone (like you) says something so despicable, so hurtful, so idiotically vicious, that there is only one appropriate response to it: Fuck off, you vile excuse for a human being.

I had thought I would post your comment as a new stand-alone post in order to demonstrate just how low antivaccine loons could go, but that would guarantee that my wife would see it, and I will not do anything that will worsen her pain in this time of mourning. Fortunately, chances are that it will be days before she looks at my blog again, and your excretions will have been buried to a place where she won’t see them–and that will be good.

In any case, you lied about being banned from my blog before. The truth is, I never banned you. I now correct that oversight. Goodbye, and good riddance.

Orac,

Thanks for leaving the “Dawn” posts up. I’m not sure I would have, but it is good for people to see this shit.

You should “whois” the IP and publish the abuse email address.

My condolences Orac.

I think Dawns vile post should be left up for the same reason that the Auschwitz site is preserved. It is important that people see what utter uncaring selfish and vicous scumbags the antivax loons are. This sort of outburst was inevitable given the court defeat and the fact that Orac’s situation puts the lie to the conspiracy whackaloon’s accusation that Doctors don’t want to cure cancer.

Dawn – you are a waste of air.

It is unfortunate that alt-med loonacy like religous fudamentism is an accepted reason to perptrate child abuse. I can only hope Dawn’s children are rescued before her insanity kills one of them.

“Congratulations, Dawn. I thought no one could out do John Best for vileness, but you’ve done it. Sometimes someone (like you) says something so despicable, so hurtful, so idiotically vicious, that there is only one appropriate response to it: Fuck off, you vile excuse for a human being.”

“Sometimes someone (like you) says something so despicable, so hurtful, so idiotically vicious”

Orac, welcome to our world.

You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”) attitude toward autism that you have had for years.

Walk a mile in my shoes.

What peer reviewed case definition is there for autism? A definition that can be tested? What are the bio-markers? What kind of blood test is there for autism?

If we know what causes autism then why is it caled autism spectrum disorder?

Do you think autism is genetic?

Kevin Champagne said “What peer reviewed case definition is there for autism? A definition that can be tested? What are the bio-markers? What kind of blood test is there for autism?”

Absolutely nothing. The definition has changed a few times over the past few years, and it may be several different things. You can read about the changes here:
http://unstrange.com/dsm1.html

And no, there is not a blood test. Why would you think there would be? There a few genetic conditions that are under the autism umbrella like Rett and Fragile X, but the latest research is that there are several different genetic markers. But, then again, there are those who can get autistic like conditions from other factors like Congenital Rubella Syndrome (which has been almost eliminated with the MMR vaccine).

My sincere condolences Orac on your family’s loss.

I too think Dawn’s comments should be preserved, and though I appreciate they would cause your wife distress, I think they actually need wider dissemination and publicity to show just how “unpleasant” the rabid antivaxers are.

Kevin,

I have addressed this “you haven’t walked in my shoes” comment before in great detail. Suffice it to say that, whatever other insights having an autistic child gives, in and of itself it does not give a parent any particular insight into the science. In fact, it can be a hindrance to understanding the science because humans are prone to confuse correlation with causation, and having a close, emotional attachment makes the problem, along with those of confirmation bias, selective memory, being confused by regression to the mean, etc., even harder to overcome.

None of this means the parents who fall for the antivaccine snake oil are stupid or dumb (although, clearly, some–like John Best or Dawn, not to mention Jenny McCarthy–are; any group of humans will have its morons). In fact, my spotty anecdotal experience suggests to me that it is the highly educated parents who tend to be most prone to rejecting the science based on their own personal experience. My speculation is that this is because they know they’re smart and can’t accept that they can be so easily fooled by the normal cognitive shortcomings and biases all humans have. Scientists know better, which is why we rely on the scientific method to minimize, at least as much as possible, the effects of such cognitive shortcomings and biases. The scientific method, far from being an expression of superiority, is a humble admission that scientists are human too, and that we share every single one of those cognitive shortcomings that interfere with our ability to make correct conclusions.

Easy folks, there are at least 3 Dawns who have posted on Orac’s blog so don’t jump on everyone with that name.

1) Dawn
The original Dawn. She now sometimes posts as “MI Dawn” to separate her from extremist Dawn.

2) Dawn D
A gardening enthusiast from Austin, TX with a gardening blog.

3) Dawn
Dawn Winkler
2006 Libertarian Candidate for Governor of Colorado (she received 1% of the votes)
Her biography as she reported it to Rocky Mountain News for public release:
http://cfapp2.rockymountainnews.com/election/profiles/c_profiles.cfm?oper=cand_profile&id=13087&qa=3
She’s 37, looks a lot like McCain’s running mate, lives in Colorado and owns a hunting rifle.

Frankly I don’t understand why people write vile things on the internet that one presumes they wouldn’t be rude enough to say directly to someone in public. Especially when in today’s electronic age our addresses, phone numbers, places of work, schools, interests, web postings and facebook page are easily found on the web. (Yes, Dawn, it’s all there including two email addresses you’ve listed on the web: [email protected] and [email protected].) But we should all refrain from calling her. She has a 13 yr old son and a husband. They don’t deserve to get crank calls from anyone because of her actions. All of her extended adult relatives seem to be very normal.

Perhaps it’s her recurring painful health problems that makes her so crabby. Ah, but she writes she’s feeling better because she’s taking bioidentical progesterone. (http://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist/2007/08/ask_a_toxicologist_should_i_ta.php) “Bioidentical progesterone is a joke. Don’t even think about buying it.”

Here’s hoping Orac gets some solace from seeing how upset his readers are at the awful words hurled at him from an embittered woman.

Sincerely,
Sally

___________________________
Vaccines – They do a body good.

Oh, Kevin Champagne crawls back out from under his rock. What’s it been, two years?

I really thought you might have learned from your haphazard experimenting with HBOT balloons and Butter’s stinky goo that the quackery just doesn’t work because there’s neither rhyme nor reason to it.

For the rest of us that have walked a mile in your shoes, without the manic and frantic and science-free effort to “fix our kids”, I’d like to take the opportunity to encourage you to embrace science and let go of the anger.

PS – How’s Butter getting along these days with the whole state realizing fraud when they can smell it?

“You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”)”

How incredibly convenient for you that facts, tests and experiments don’t matter. There’s no way to prove you wrong!

Whatever pain you’re going through doesn’t excuse being wrong. If you were any kind of adult you’d accept your shortcomings and acknowledge your personal biases before attacking the people actually trying to fix the situation.

You’re pathetic but what else is new.

Sally, I looked up Dawn, and boy does she have a history as an antivaxer. Yowza. Here is a neuron killing exchange.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/hapi.htm

She certainly does work hard at blaming her problems on everybody else. I honestly feel bad for her.

That said, I feel very good for Colorado that she isn’t their governor.

Orac,

My sympathy goes out to you and your wife, for your loss. Thank you for continuing to post during this difficult time.

Quoth Kevin the Clueless:

“You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”)”

Funny, I’ve always felt that having someone tell me the truth – or, if you like, show me the science – was the opposite of being “kicked in the balls”.

If anything felt like being “kicked in the balls” (or equivalent gonads), it was the many pseudo-educated parents smugly telling me that my child would be “recoverered” if only I would give him chelation, HBOT, supplements, a GFCF diet, the Feingold diet, ABA, Lupron, secretin or omega-3 fatty acids.

And when I told them that I had tried those things (well, not all of them, but most), they would smugly say, “You just need to give it more time!” or “Don’t give up before the miracle!” or some such condescending nonsense.

No, Kevin, if anyone is kicking parents in the “balls”, it’s your lot.

You’re the ones who have turned the “Refrigerator Mother” of Bettleheim into the “Vaccinator Mother” of Wakefield and DAN!.

You’re the ones telling parents that they’re responsible for their child becoming autistic by vaccinating them and that they’re keeping their child autistic by not following your ridiculous “protocols”.

You’re the ones sending parents on an endless scavenger hunt to innumerable quacks in the vain search for the “cure”.

And you’re the ones making death threats, harrassing and defaming anyone who dares to disagree with you.

Climb back under your rock and contemplate that, you heartless worm!

Prometheus

Condolences Orac, and I hope you received some small measure of satisfaction of banning that nasty bitch. I know I did.

Last time I saw her post here, she said that health care professionals should be locked up. That was bad enough to cause me to tell her that if I knew her in person I would have slapped her, but this pure, unadulterated nastiness is too low even for the vicarious pleasure of virtual slapping.

But still enough to make me feel ashamed for her. Normally that would make me feel some small amount of compassion (she is, after all, only human and probably has more troubles than will visit me during my entire lifetime), but in this case it just makes me sick. Well done, Dawn, and good riddance. For the sake of your family, I hope you get help.

Kevin Champagne wrote:
“You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”)”

This comment strikes me as being truly poignant, and here’s why–

Kevin, did you know that Orac and other bloggers of science-based medicine and peer-reviewed research are not trying to kick you, but rather to empower you? It’s true. Blogs like this help everyone, regardless of educational background, to be able to read the scientific literature and draw valid, logical conclusions from it. Peer-reviewed science is the ultimate equalizer: anyone can read it. Anyone can ask questions about it. Science recognizes no authority but logic, methodology, rigorous analysis of results, and repeatability.

Instead of feeling kicked by Orac’s reviews of the literature, you might try to use them to feel empowered. Using logic might cause you to change your mind about some dearly-held positions– but learning to feel informed and knowledgeable about objective reality is well worth the risk.

On another topic, I do hope Dawn gets help from a mental health professional. I feel very sad for her, but right now I feel even sadder for Orac, having been subjected to her astounding cruelty.

Sally said “3) Dawn
Dawn Winkler
2006 Libertarian Candidate for Governor of Colorado (she received 1% of the votes)”

Actually, the “Dawn” that posted the evil crap was a fourth Dawn:

4) Dawn Crim, a woman with a grown son who has some learning issues, and a younger son who was born very prematurely due to her pre-eclampsia. She was given a post-natal vaccine for rubella, which she blames for a temporary hearing loss (not even connecting it to the high blood pressure that was part of her high risk pregnancy). Every couple of months late at night (she lives in the North East, so the time stamps are her time) she tends to start writing nasty vitriolic postings to this blog (they get more loopy in the wee hours of the morning, so we suspect some ethanol is involved), and she has written sob stories about her family as the “evidence that vaccines are bad”… somehow missing that the plural of anecdotes is not data.

What peer reviewed case definition is there for autism? A definition that can be tested? What are the bio-markers? What kind of blood test is there for autism?

Maybe Kevin Champagne really wants to learn by asking these questions. (NOT.)

I usually point out that autism is a social/cultural/psychiatric construct. However, that doesn’t mean that it can’t be researched, that findings about autism haven’t been replicated, or that it’s not possible to talk about its validity as a diagnosis.

Incidentally, I do know of one finding about an autistic characteristic that appears to nearly always be found in autistics and nearly never found in non-autistics. See this paper (figure 1). That would be remarkable if it were true. I’d like to see a replication, though.

Joseph said “Maybe Kevin Champagne really wants to learn by asking these questions. (NOT.)”

Sorry, my mistake in thinking he might have been sincere.

Hrm, the loopy ones seem to be viewing Orac’s leave of absence as a vulnerable point, and coming out to play.

This is Dawn’s reality:
“Apparently, the ban was temporarily lifted? However, Orac has permanently banned me as of today. I guess he was insulted when I accused him of being motivated by money and not by his conscience.”

She cannot be touched by anger or outrage. She certainly enjoys the fury resulting from her insulting comments, giving purpose to a pathetically unsung life.

But I can’t help but say my piece:
To Dawn, (rhymes with “Yawn”),
Living with an inflated sense of self doesn’t make you interesting, intelligent or challenging, it makes you an asshole. As I’m sure you have heard before…good riddance. Let me speak for all that meet/live with you on a daily basis…you’re not smart… you’re a crazy, paranoid, self-absorbed, borderline, pseudo-educated bore. You’re a dime a dozen. I guarantee you’ve slept in a mental hospital before and will in the future. See ya…

Orac, forget this bitch, she is less than dog shit on your shoe (with both metaphors, I mean no offense to our canine friends).

On your loss, I send my sincere condolences to you and your family. Hope you feel how much we support you in these hard times.

My sincere condolences, Orac, to you and your family. I empathize deeply and with tears of my own for your pain.

There’s yet another anti-vax Dawn out there as well (what is it what that name?) but I don’t think she’s stuck her nose into this blog. She has made the rounds of many of the tyical anti-vax S”mothering” sites.

As to this other Dawn’s post, uh, I’m not even sure I know what to say. That’s a new level of revolting.

“Orac, welcome to our world.

You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”) attitude toward autism that you have had for years.

Walk a mile in my shoes.

Posted by: Kevin Champagne”

Kevin —

Your post depends upon a number of questionable assumptions, but let’s skip past the ones that are just morally bankrupt, such as “If I feel my rights have been violated, it justifies any sort of completely vicious, heartless scumbaggery I care to perpetrate” and look at one of the more interesting ones, which is “It is my right that no one should ever hold a different belief than I do on the subject of autism.”

Tell me, what exactly did put into your head the idea that you possessed this right? Is this something you feel about all your beliefs — do you, for example, make anonymous phone calls promising to murder the children of your neighbor across the street if you find out that he believes the Cardinals will win the Super Bowl and you believe it will be the Steelers? If so, why not? It’s completely in line with your saying “Dawn and I are perfectly entitled to attack Orac in the filthiest, most despicable way possible at a time of personal tragedy — after all, he has a different opinion on autism than we do, and that violates our rights.”

Nope, Kevin, I just don’t understand it yet. How, exactly, will “walking in your shoes” imbue any of us with the delusion that we are entitled to demand agreement with our viewpoints and to lash out psychopathically when others differ?

What AF said.

Orac is trying to explain to you what the best evidence is behind what does or does not cause autism. Part of that does involve pointing out those who are taking advantage of parents through the sale (intentional or otherwise) of snake oil cures.

We are on your side, whether you know it or not.

My sincere condolences to you, your wife and your family in this difficult time.

Many thanks for your erudite words to date.

First of all, go back and read my comment or I will repost it here.

“Orac, welcome to our world.

You may look at this as someone kicking you right in the balls while you’re down but, that’s the way many of us have felt over the last couple of years because of your (“I know more than you because of peer reviewed science BS”) attitude toward autism that you have had for years.”

Walk a mile in my shoes.”

I did not make a derogatory remark at Orac nor did I offer any condolences.

I did put in quotes a comment made by someone that comments under the name of “Dawn” that did make some less than complimentary comments about Orac.

I simply felt Dawn’s frustration with a lot of you and made an attempt to point out my frustrations, and my experiences, that I have had with many of you in the past.

Now that that is out of the way …I would like to address a couple of things.

I did not crawl out from under a rock the other night when I made my “kicked in the balls” comment. I crawled back under one that night when I went there.

Prometheus and Orac like to come off as scientists that are at the top of their field in the name of science but in reality you’re probably over opiniated assholes that people try to avoid getting stuck in an eleavator with. You’re a joke!

To have the minds that you have and the elite university degrees that you possess and then to waste them here with endless blogging that in the long run means absolutely nothing and accomplishes absolutely nothing and can only be described as pure stupidity!

I came to that conclusion about a year ago. Blogging is people that just love to push their opinion on you. They’re the same asshole at work that won’t shut the fuck up.

You’re nothing more than over opinionated jackoffs and anyone working in ANY line of work, whether it’s rubbish removal or nuclear physics …you’re the kind of people that we dread to come across at any get together bacause we know that you’re just over opininated jackoffs that just can’t get along with people on a daily basis unless they agree with you.

I guarantee that you’re both a couple of overpaid assholes that without a doubt, are blogging while being paid by a university or a hospital or even in a round about way by a government agency to get to the bottom what causes cancer or autism or whatever disease process or heaven for fucking bid, a vaccine … but instead you spend your time here.

Maybe if great minds like yours spent more time on science instead of what some jackoff said on a blog last night, …we would all be better off.

Why don’t you both get to the bottom of what is really wrong with our children instead of spending all your time here telling us what autism is not?

Anyone with a degree behind their name can quote other people’s work through peer reviewed science but …what do you two windbags have to offer? What have you accomplished? What have you contributed to the outstanding world of peer reviewed science that you trumpet?

Do you both just quote others and walk in their shoes or have you made your footprint in someway?

Autism is not a genetic disorder. I have been told by more than one doctor, “There is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.”

From a parent of an autistic and a fellow physician, THANK YOU for taking on the anti-vaxxers and loonies like Dawn (the bitch, not the other sane Dawns here) and standing up for the evidence. That is the best thing someone like yourself can do for my child. You are a true advocate for autism.

Again, my condolences to your family on your loss.

Thoughts Regarding Autism Spectrum Neurodevelopmental Disorders

Of these rare neurological dysfunctions, Autism is the most common of these passive developmental disorders. Autism is a disability caused by a brain development disorder of unknown cause, yet some suspect the cause is some sort of neurological dysfunction- possibly with a genetic predisposition.
Usually, symptoms of the disease present themselves before the toddler reaches the age of three. Before Autism was more understood, others inaccurately labeled autistics as childhood schizophrenia or as having a psychosis or mental retardation.
Out of over two dozen diagnostic criteria utilized for these disorders, eight must be present to be considered autistic, according to the DSM. As with all passive developmental disorders, the person expresses language, social, and behavioral difficulties.
Treatment includes what are called psychotropic medications that delay the progression of the disorder, as well as relieve some of the symptoms of one who is autistic. Behavioral therapy is common as a treatment regimen as well. Boys get Autism much more than girls.
Then there is the controversy between many who claim that thimerosal- a preservative containing mercury, which is a neurotoxin that was used in vaccines until 2001, was the catalyst for autism in children.
Over 5000 lawsuits have been filed because of this belief, and some have been successful for the plaintiff. Yet most agree the correlation between thimersal and autism is void of scientific merit. Furthermore, the cases of autism have not decreased since the preservative was discontinued in 2001.
Aside from Autism, the other four passive developmental disorders are known as autism spectrum disorders.
Asperger’s Syndrome is more common than autism, and the symptoms are milder, as there is minimal delay in language abilities, if at all. What is expressed with Asperger’s syndrome is mild autistic symptoms. In time, the patient may express atypical personality disorders, though.
While intelligence is within normal limits with the Asperger’s patient, social interactions and abilities preset difficulty for such a patient. As with Autism, medications and behavioral therapy are treatment regimens with one with this syndrome
Rett’s Syndrome or disorder presents with not only atypical behavior, but also suffers from restricted physical growth and movement. There is cognitive and social impairment as well. The disorder affects mostly girls, and the cause is due to a gene mutation.
Childhood Disintegrative disorder is rare, and is 10 times less common than autism. The disorder has a late onset with mild autistic symptoms. The disorder affects mostly boys, and regression is sudden and possible with this disorder. Skills lost with this disorder may be language, social, self-care, as well as play or motor skills. Decreased function or impairment with this disorder may include social skills and behavioral flaws. Central Nervous System pathology is a suspected cause of this disorder.
Finally, there are passive development disorders that are not otherwise specified. This may include atypical autism, for example. Yet as with the rest of types of these disorders, the symptoms vary in their frequency and intensity, as well as the range of abilities of these developmental disorders vary widely as well.
Medicinal treatment along with cognitive and behavioral therapy prove to be most beneficial for all the different types of Passive Development Disorders that unfortunately exist for unknown reasons, yet further research should be done to discover both the etiologies as well as more effective treatment for the Autism Spectrum.
http://www.autism-society.org
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/139183.php
Dan Abshear

I’m still trying to find out what Dan is trying to accomplish spamming this same comment over and over again on every vax post. For those that don’t know, Dan is a comment spammer that cut and pastes that exact post every time autism is mentioned.

It appears he at least did some formatting this time so it isn’t a wall of text. I guess just trying to drum up traffic on his website.

Kevvy Pooh, don’t be so angry. Let go of the hate. Being a luddite might make you feel like a maverick, but it’s really just not helping… you or your kid.

Seriously, how much have you spent with Butter?

Your rocks a’callin, Kevvy!

I have been told by more than one doctor, “There is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.”

@KC: Did they also tell you there’s no such thing as a fake epidemic?

Sounds like Kevin C. is quite ticked off at the results of the Omnibus.

So, Kevin believes that clever people with degrees should not blog because in his opinion “Blogging is people that just love to push their opinion on you. They’re the same asshole at work that won’t shut the fuck up.” Is that all bloggers? I can think of a few at the AoA clown blog and on HuffPo who fit that description. But all bloggers? Poor Kevin. So much hate and so little time.

To anybody reading Kevin’s posts.

Orac is exactly what he claims to be- a surgeon-scientist. He has a fairly impressive publication record. It’s not stellar but considering he’s also a practicing surgeon it’s certainly something to be genuinly proud of. A number of his papers are cited more than 100 times which is a clear sign that the scientific community he works in regards his work highly. He’s made and continues to make a contribution. So it’s a bullshit call to claim a lack of contribution on Orac’s part.

It’s an old fashioned idea these days but academics are in fact paid to explain their work to the public. It’s the dissemination of knowledge to the wider community. This is also sometimes called teaching. Your tax dollars at work. getting somebody with extensive training to take the time to learn all this stuff and then carefully explain to to everybody else. Money well spent in this case.

P.S. Calling people over-opinionated jackoffs in a page long ‘comment’ is the height of irony.

I left a comment on vile Dawn’s blog. Since she moderates comments, I doubt it will see the light of day there, so am reposting it here:

“I doubt you will allow this comment, Dawn, since I am going to point out that WHY Orac banned you is you posted a comment on one of his recent reposts (since he is reposting due to the death of his beloved mother-in-law):

(Dawn’s comment erased from here because Orac, his wife and his friends do not need to read it again, but I did post it on Dawn’s blog)

However, since you did post it and were banned in consequence all I can say is I never thought any woman could be so vile. I’m ashamed we share a name and I hope I never meet you.

P.S. I am also posting this comment, with your statement redacted on RI.(Orac does not need to read this obsenity again)”

If she posts it, I will be shocked that she actually has the courage to show what a nasty person she is.

KC said, “Why don’t you both get to the bottom of what is really wrong with our children instead of spending all your time here telling us what autism is not?”

Ironic considering we have already figured out that vaccines aren’t linked to autism. But the Gen.Rescue and AoA folks won’t let the topic die, hampering reserachers’ efforts to locate a real etiology and real treatments.

I would like more support for autism research. I want the kids to get treatment so their condition improves. But I want it done RIGHT! Money spent on chelation and mercury studies is just money being thrown into a fire.

“They’re the same asshole at work that won’t shut the fuck up.”

Kevin, Have you ever heard of the term “projection?”

MI Dawn, Don’t keep your hopes up. I did the same several days ago, but forgot to make a copy.

MI Dawn, I did the same thing, fully realizing that it will never see the light of day.

A waste of good electrons.

This anti-vax fantasy is much worse than just “hampering researchers’ efforts to locate a real etiology and real treatments.” Go over to Neurodiversity and read about the horrific series of treatments inflicted on one poor autistic child by people who believe (or pretend to believe) that chelation and the like actually have some benefit. I agree with the commenters that labrats are better protected than that child.

You guys are really too funny….jumping all over me for something that I said to Orac – it actually wasn’t a mean comment directed toward the rest of his family – just him. He is the poorest excuse for a human being. Now, I actually have others telling me how rude I am. Why? I have been putting up with your lower than low scummy filthy comments for months, yet I am the bitch here? Some of you have told me that my childrens’ problems are “in their defective genes” and some other wacky, insensitive crap like that. Where do you people get off? I am convinced of 2 things here…..some of you DON’T have children with Autism, but pretend that you do AND others do have children with Autism, but are so filled with hate that they’ve been duped by vaccines – you also want to see other parents pay dearly too. Nice. Now, who is really the evil person here?

Kevin,

I am just a parent who has been around the block a whole lot longer than you with a child on the autistic spectrum (he is an adult now), who even had seizures because of an actual disease (guess what! the diseases are not fun nor easy nor even “harmless”!).

I’m sorry, but from the comments it sounds like you have spent lots of money and effort on supposed cures (Butter? What the heck is that about? Do you rub a special butter on your autistic child? Now that is really going off the deep end!).

But…
The science has been done, the link between vaccines and autism does not exist. It is a dead link… “It’s not pinin’! ‘It’s passed on! This link is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet its maker! It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed it to the perch it’d be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now ‘istory! It’s off the twig! It’s kicked the bucket, it’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-LINK!! ” (hat-tip to Monty Python and the dead parrot sketch)

Evil Dawn said “He is the poorest excuse for a human being. …….some of you DON’T have children with Autism,”

You are a clueless git, aren’t you? Yes, I have an autistic child, and lots longer than you or Kevin.

By the way you morons who claim there is “no link” between vaccines and Autism….there is also “no link” between cancer and cigarette smoking. There is no way to prove either. So, I blame people like you for murdering countless innocent children daily. For what? Money – because diseases were pretty much eradicated BEFORE VACCINES came about. This is directly from the World Health Organization….or are they not credible either? Rot in hell all of you.

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