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I really wish this were an April Fools’ Day joke…

…but sadly, it’s not. Jenny McCarthy has struck again.

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Yesterday, given the release of Jenny McCarthy’s new book espousing antivaccinationism and autism quackery and the attendant media blitz the antivaccine movement has organized to promote it, I predicted that a wave of stupid is about to fall upon our great nation.

Well, the stupid has landed. And how. An interview with Jenny has just been published on the TIME Magazine website in which she “surpasses” herself. In fact, so dense is the stupid emanating from what passes for a “brain” in that empty head of hers that words fail me. Suddenly, my favorite snarky analogies about “black hole of stupid, beyond whose event horizon no intelligence or science can pass,” “waves of neuron-apoptosing stupidity,” or “the stupid, it burns thermonuclear” (or supernova or hypernova) all seem woefully inadequate to the task of describing the sheer magnitude of the stupid that issues forth from the interview.

Here’s a hint. Jenny thinks it’s acceptable that infectious diseases will return because of her efforts and those of her fellow antivaccinationists. She thinks it may be a necessary price:

TIME: Your collaborator recommends that parents accept only the haemophilus influenzae type B (HIB) and tetanus vaccine for newborns and then think about the rest. Not polio? What about the polio clusters in unvaccinated communities like the Amish in the U.S.? What about the 2004 outbreak that swept across Africa and Southeast Asia after a single province in northern Nigeria banned vaccines?

JM: I do believe sadly it’s going to take some diseases coming back to realize that we need to change and develop vaccines that are safe. If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it’s their f___ing fault that the diseases are coming back. They’re making a product that’s s___. If you give us a safe vaccine, we’ll use it. It shouldn’t be polio versus autism.

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That’s right. In Jenny’s warped world, your children are acceptable collateral damage in the cause of promoting her unscientific belief that vaccines cause autism. Here’s a hint for you, Jenny: We already do have vaccines that are safe, and neither you (nor the antivaccine loons) are changing. The government and pharmaceutical companies are listening to you far more than your idiotic pseudoscientific nonsense deserves and even though you are a scientific illiterate. Scientists are wasting millions of dollars studying over and over again the question of whether vaccines are associated with autism and keep finding the same answer: They aren’t.

But it’s never enough for you. No matter how many studies exonerate vaccines as a cause of autism, you don’t believe them. You will never believe them no matter how many studies are done. In fact, I say you are lying when you say that “if you give us a safe vaccine we’ll use it.” The reason is that you have made it very clear that no vaccine will ever be safe enough for you. Regardless of how much evidence is presented, to you your Google University “education” in the dark underbelly of antivaccinationist websites and blogs will always trump science.

I have news for you, too, Jenny: You don’t have much of a record when it comes to scientific issues. After all, you used to think you were an “Indigo Mom” and your son Evan was an “Crystal child,” with abilities beyond that of normal children. Maybe you still do. You were, however, clever enough to know that if you were ever to be reborn as an “autism advocate,” a “mother warrior” fighting to find the cure, all of that “Indigo” woo would have to go. So you scrubbed your website shortly before the release of your first autism book. Too bad The Wayback Machine knows all.

That’s not all of the stupid in Jenny’s interview, however. Let’s take a look at a couple of other choice tidbits:

People have the misconception that we want to eliminate vaccines. Please understand that we are not an antivaccine group. We are demanding safe vaccines. We want to reduce the schedule and reduce the toxins. If you ask a parent of an autistic child if they want the measles or the autism, we will stand in line for the f___ing measles.

No, Jenny. It’s not a misconception at all that “your” Generation Rescue is an antivaccine group. It is, as your “Green Our Vaccines” march proved. No matter how much evidence goes against you, you still insist that it’s absolutely, positively got to be the vaccines. On the Age of Autism blog, any time a problem with a vaccine is found (or GR can make it seem as though a problem has been found), even if it has virtually nothing to do with childhood vaccines or autism (Gardasil, anyone?), it’s trumpeted on AoA as though it’s vindication for your cultish belief that vaccines cause autism. Whenever a claim is demolished (for instance, that mercury in vaccines causes autism), you move the goalposts, as you do in your interview here:

We don’t believe it’s only the mercury. Aluminum and other toxins also play a role. The viruses in the vaccines themselves can be causing it, too.

That’s nothing more than the “toxin” gambit that you like so much. I suppose I should be happy that you didn’t parrot the “formaldehyde in teh vaxines!” gambit. I wonder if Dr. Jay Gordon finally told you to stop it because it’s so dumb.

You also appeal to anecdotal evidence instead of science and hard numbers:

All you have to do is find a schoolteacher or principal and ask them that question. They would say they’ve never seen so much ADHD, autism, OCD as in the past. I think we’re overdiagnosing it by maybe 1%. Now you look around and there are five shadows — kids with disabilities — in every class.

No, Jenny. Studies have been quite clear that broadening of the diagnostic criteria and diagnostic substitution account for most of the increase. Again, anecdotal evidence easily misleads, something I’ve never been able to convince Dr. Jay of. “On the ground,” it may appear that way to teachers, but services are better for special needs children, and I doubt they ever consider whether diagnoses that were once common (mental retardation, for instance) have gone down as autism diagnoses have gone up.

Clearly, Jenny no longer even cares how much of a body count her activities will cause, because it’s now a holy war to her. The Satan vaccines are “stealing the souls from children,” as her the co-author of her newest book once put it; so she must endanger the children and allow some to suffer and even die, all so that they can keep their souls and not become autistic. Because in her world, suffering and death are better than autism; vaccines are the tool of the devil; and science absolutely does not matter in her coming to these beliefs.

Truly, Kevin Leitch was correct to label this McCarthygeddon because it’s all about what is in essence a religious, not rational, belief. It’s certainly not about science or science- and evidence-based medicine.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

212 replies on “I really wish this were an April Fools’ Day joke…”

Wow. Jenny McCarthy hates her own kid. You’d have to, to refer to a disabled child as a “shadow,” when you’re the parent of one yourself.

Speaking as someone who used to be that disabled kid in the classroom, I find that highly effing offensive. Nice dehumanisation, there, Jenny. I shudder to think what you’d do for an encore.

“We just want safe vaccines” they say.
The ones we have now are as safe as we can make them.
It’s not the vaccines, stupid.

TIME has some culpability here too. Oprah is not a “news” organziation, but TIME is and providing this kind of unbalanced presentation is as repugnant as the anti-vax movement.

well, y know. all these diseases aren’t helped by vaccination anyway. vaccines are deadly and CAUSE disease.

But on a serious note, it may very well take a few deaths and permanently brain damaged kids to convince these morons that what they’re doing is profoundly wrong – a Darwin awards derby in which only the innocent will pay a heavy toll for their parents arrogance, ignorance and stupidity.

Autism is environmental. Science says so…from USC and Vanderbilt University in the National Academies Press “We Need To Learn Where Toxins Impact Gene Expression to Find the Cause of Autism. “http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11946#toc. Also UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California’s autism increase not due to better counting or diagnosis and goes on to say it is likely environmental, http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=1861&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published.

And to the point of environmental trigger and vaccines, let’s just look at one issue… http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/aluminum-new-thimerosal.html

I’ll make no editorial comments…just read the facts for yourself.

And while you’re at it, you may want to read this analysis on the studies that supposedly prove vaccines are safe. Feeding the Hungry Lie, Feeding a hungry lie.

And the twisting the AAP gave the facts regarding the most recent thimersoal study, Il Mercurio and the AAP.

The government and pharmaceutical companies are listening to you far more than your idiotic pseudoscientific nonsense deserves and even though you are a scientific illiterate. Scientists are wasting millions of dollars studying over and over again the question of whether vaccines are associated with autism and keep finding the same answer: They aren’t.

Orac,

What about the latest study that does show such an association?

So basically, rather than risk having children who might turn out to be less than “perfect” they’d just as soon let them die.

Terry said “TIME has some culpability here too. Oprah is not a “news” organziation, but TIME is and providing this kind of unbalanced presentation is as repugnant as the anti-vax movement.”

Which is why I hit the link on the writer’s name, which gave me a form for a letter to the editor. I titled it “Killer actress, literally from her stupidity”, and in the body just added the links to this blog, the jennymccarthybodycount page and Kev’s McCarthygedden posting.

JM:

“Babies get the hepatitis B vaccine immediately after they’re born and the only way for a newborn to contract that disease is if the mother is a carrier. Why not just screen the mother? Evan was handed to me pre-vaccinated with a Band-Aid on his foot.”

Errr… and that would have been caused by what exactly? Certainly not the Hep B vax, but a heel prick screening test for phenylketonuria (PKU).

Her using polio as an example really pisses me off. My dad got polio the summer before the vaccine came out. He spent time in an iron lung (he had pictures) and the rest of his life in a wheelchair. On top of that he had to deal with post-polio issues such as respiratory problems.

That she sees a return to these diseases as acceptable shows she has a very sick view of reality.

Science Pundit,

You almost got me there. The e-mails that notify me of comments strip the links out; so I initially thought you were serious!

Back to grant writing…

@dt: you are partially right; a band-aid on a heel could have been from the PKU. However, almost all blood tests done on babies (PKU, glucose, jaundice test – AKA bilirubin) are done from heel sticks.

Disclaimer: while I was a newborn nursery nurse/OB nurse/nurse-midwife in the past, my children did not receive the Hep B injections as infants. They were still optional when my kids were born, and as both my husband and I had been screened AND vaccinated for our jobs, I did not feel they needed them at birth. My children DID get the Hep B vaccines when they were pre-teen age. All of their vaccinations are up to date and complete (except varicella, which both children suffered through as young children. I’d have rather they had the vaccine; my oldest was so sick and miserable that I ended up giving the poor child Tylenol with Codeine because she was in so much agony.)

A couple of lawsuit’s from the disillusioned parents of disabled or dead children will likely be the only thing that will put a sock in Jenny’s mouth.

Heh, I guess labeling them as pro-disease is more accurate and less inflammatory than I thought it was. I still did it anyway, but now it just seems so right 😛

Anti-vax = Pro-disease. Pro-infectious, debilitating, deadly disease. Makes sense to restate the issue this way. Makes a stark and sadly, truthful point.

Jenny McCarthy –>> Pro-disease

I see billboard opportunities!

My mom is a special ed teacher and she’s also the guardian for her foster brother who was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Obviously I grew up around kids with a variety of special needs. It’s why I get so upset when I see Jenny McCarthy or other people dehumanizing kids with autism (or any disability). We talk a lot about her students because she likes to bounce ideas off me for class projects. She is not in the group who thinks that autism, ADD, etc. have increased. As she put it to me once: same kids, same problems, different labels. Not that changing diagnosis are a bad thing, it’s given her tools she didn’t have 20 years ago.

These anti-vaxxers should be forced to travel to one of the handful of places that still have polio and see exactly what it does. Ditto with other infectious diseases. Make them watch video of small pox victims, the one disease we’ve managed to totally eradicate. Do they think we should still have a disease around with a 25% mortality rate? Let them see straight in the face what they are advocating.

Your heart has to go out to the parents. They’re just looking for someone to hold accountable. Jenny McCarthy, like all good demagogues, has given them something simple, and anecdotally believable that they can hold on too, however inaccurate it is.
Once they’ve started that, the cognitive dissonance kicks in, and soon, all hope is lost.

@MI Dawn. Yes the heel prick could have been things other than a PKU screen. But it certainly was not a Hepatitis B vaccine injection site.

I think it just demonstrates Jenny’s willingness to jump to conclusions and imagine the worst as soon as she thinks something is wrong.

And anyway, the infant of a Playboy model would in my book be considered as being at quite high risk of getting congnital infections such as Hep B from its “high risk” mother, and would merit being vaccinated.

I just sent this letter to the editor at Time:

Seriously? This is the best that you could do in a Health & Science article? Jenny McCarthy and her band of loons are about as ANTI-science and ANTI-health as you can possibly get! Her and Generation Rescue spread lies and misinformation to promote their anti-vaccination message. Not one of their claims has any shred of scientific evidence to support it. None. Zip. No amount of science will be good enough for them and their anecdotal version of reality where vaccines and autism are concerned. As a result, we’re spending millions of dollars needlessly on repeating the same research over and over. The conclusion is always the same–VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM.
You giving her a forum for this message is incredibly irresponsible. How many children have to start getting diseases like measles and polio before you take away her forum? How many magazines do you have to sell with this D-list celebrity’s line of BS to make it worth a few kids’ lives? Your magazine has just joined the ranks of “People” and “Us” for real news.
John Schneider
Phoenix, AZ

If you ask a parent of an autistic child if they want the measles or the autism, we will stand in line for the f___ing measles.

That’s an amazingly dishonest comparison. Even if the anti-vaxxers were completely right about everything, the correct comparison would be between a 1/150 chance of ASD versus the combined risk of all possible outcomes of every vaccine-preventable disease. Ask a parent of a child who died of SSPE if they’d have preferred their child was ASD.

All you have to do is find a schoolteacher or principal and ask them that question. They would say they’ve never seen so much ADHD, autism, OCD as in the past.

They say the same thing about pediatricians, but once actual surveys are conducted, pediatricians generally say the increase is an artifact.

If there is any silver lining to this stormcloud of stupidity, it’s that perhaps the vaccine-questioning parents will begin to see exactly how batshit crazy and deluded JmcC really is. The vast majority of parents might fear autism*, but they also know enough to fear measles, and polio, and meningitis. Sorry, McCarthy, but most parents will still prefer a kid who’s “off” to one who’s “dead”.

*Yes, there’s no connection b/t autism and vaccines–but we’re talking about folks who believe otherwise.

[O]nce actual surveys are conducted, pediatricians generally say the increase is an artifact.

That was my mother’s instinctive reaction when she heard talk of an “autism epidemic”. She says that it’s all due to changing standards and increased reporting, and who are you to call my mother a liar?

OK, here’s something I don’t get: if Jenny believes autism can be cured, then why is it so terrible and fearful? Just chelate a few times, follow a special diet, take some magic herbs (and spices), and you too can have a normal kid once again!

Unlike encephalopathy or death, which, like diamonds, are forever.

Even by her own reasoning, vaccines should be a good deal.

Beyond Hpyernova
Beyond Pair Instability Supernova
There exists…..
the Big Bang of Stupidity
or the Cosmic Brane Collision of Stupidity
(I like the play in word with that one.)

“It shouldn’t be polio versus autism.”
It isn’t and never has been.

“If you ask a parent of an autistic child if they want the measles or the autism, we will stand in line for the f___ing measles”
How about if they want a chance at measles and autism, or just a chance at autism?

“We are demanding safe vaccines. We want to reduce the schedule and reduce the toxins.”
But botox is OK. Please define which toxins you are speaking of, and what level of those toxins you find acceptable, and please compare that standard to the levels of those same toxins children are exposed to from non-vaccine sources.

“they’ve never seen so much ADHD, autism, OCD as in the past”
Let’s assume that teachers have never seen so many children diagnosed with ASD, AHDH, OCD, etc before; is there really any difference in the student population, or just how those students are currently classified and/or whether they are allowed to attend regular schools?

“I think we’re overdiagnosing it by maybe 1%”
Based on what expertise/data?

By the way, what increase in autism? http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=158

Wouldn’t it be a wonderful irony if someone could develope a vaccine that prevented or “cured” autism? I think the numbered light on Jenny’s neck would flash repeatedly while she asked Norman for help before she just shut down completely.

I have Autism. I caught it from a door knob. My diagnosis came much later ONLY due to the release of the DSM IV while I was still in middle school after I learned strategies to cope/mask it. That’s right: my symptoms decreased while my diagnostic criteria shot up. Effing brilliant. The widening of diagnostic nets, through both better criteria and testing methodology AND a greater willingness of parents, clinicians, and educators to seek and accept diagnoses, is the number one reason the rates are going up. Also, we’re breeeeeeeeeeeeding a hell of a lot more profusely now. Thanks, Internet.

So basically, rather than risk having children who might turn out to be less than “perfect” they’d just as soon let them die.

That’s what happens when your kids are a hobby rather than independent sentient beings with their own rights and personhood.

What kills me is that the original data saying there was a link were falsified: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece

And yet this continues, millions of research dollars later….

And this: “they’ve never seen so much ADHD, autism, OCD as in the past”
If this were true, it’s probably because many were institutionalized or at least put into special schools.

Seriously, TIME couldn’t find ANYTHING ELSE to cover????

@ MartinM:

That’s an amazingly dishonest comparison. Even if the anti-vaxxers were completely right about everything, the correct comparison would be between a 1/150 chance of ASD versus the combined risk of all possible outcomes of every vaccine-preventable disease. Ask a parent of a child who died of SSPE if they’d have preferred their child was ASD.

I think that’s spot-on. I’d like to ask Jenny: If a parent were asked that question, does she think they also stand in line for the chance at Polio, Varicella, Hib, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Tetanus, Mumps, Rubella, Diptheria, Pertussis, Meningococcal, Pneumococcal, plus whatever else?

I sense a smidgette of irritation… perhaps you could communicate this better if you framed it in a Nisbett-approved fashion?

Grins madly, ducks and runs for cover…

… while thinking that perhaps the phrase “McCarthyite Witch Hunt” can be construed in more than one way

I sent a letter to the editor in response to the article:

Dear Editors,

I haven’t been reading Time magazine since years – the last time being when I was in High School. Your soft-balled questions article about Jenny McCarthy discussing her attitudes towards science shows me why I have missed nothing and gained everything by my choice.

Thank you for proving, yet again, that you are a bunch of clueless apes. It was the sort of article which I expected to read in another pulp feel-good trash publication such as “People’s Magazine” instead of a genuine scientific article in a more newsworthy source.

Jenny McCarthy has nothing intelligent to say. She is the kind of woman that gives the rest of us beautiful blondes a bad name. She is a self-serving idiot whose face is best left at the bottom of a bird cage – where your magazine now truly belongs.

Have a wonderful time trying to adapt to the new digital medium, and we’ll see how much longer you stay around with articles such as these.

Yours with complete and utter insolence,

Summer Seale.

P.S. Seeing as you may have trouble understanding the gist of this letter, due to your stupidity in interviewing Jenny McCarthy in the first place, I’ll sum it up for you in four words: Time Magazine Fucking Sucks.

Now this is just sheer speculation, but seems to me that the reason so many parents of autistic children blame the vaccines is because,if autism turns out to be genetic or a fetal developement disorder, they have no-one to blame and their perfect children weren’t made imperfect by the ebil doctors.

I contracted polio the year before the vaccine came out. In treatment over the years I saw lots of kids suffering from the disease, many much worse than me. Some of them died, but all of us were left with a life of varying degrees of pain and disabilities.

I hope there’s a special place in hell for the vulgar airhead Jenny McCarthy for even suggesting that polio may need to come back. What a vacuous sack of manure she is!

@Science Pundit

Ya got me! Pretty good one!

As for JM, none of this surprises me. She wants to sell books, the more outrageous she is, the more publicity she gets. Why anyone takes this empty-headed twit seriously enough to buy her book is beyond me. They should have their HS diplomas revoked.

The real proof of Jenny’s (et al) attitude towards vaccines is the quote on polio. Because we’re almost to the point of eradicating it for-freaking-ever — and they want to give it a reprieve from extinction.

How many children got the smallpox vaccine last year, Jenny? Care to guess why? So what’s your problem with sending polio the same way?

Who made this vapid twit anything but annoying? I had a friend who had polio, this bitch never saw that pain. This is the newthink that we all were warned about in SciFi novels. Next up, depopulation to save the earth. Pick a card, any card. Slap this bitch until she feels like she has polio. Asswipe squared.

The fact she spreads such misinformation and thinks she speaks for evey parent who has a child on the spectrum infuriates me. She is so scientifically illiterate, incompetent and irresponsible.

It really goes to show her irrational way of thinking when she says vaccine manufacturers will be the ones to blame when we have a serious outbreak of one of these diseases. That just blows my mind. She’ll never see how all the fearmongering and misinformation she and her ilk are spreading is what’s really responsible. I can only hope that if the time comes when we see these outbreaks that there’s a national outcry and she’s forced to be held accountable for her words and actions. The willful arrogance and ignorance of this woman still manages to amaze me.

Orac, I’ve heard Jenny repeatedly talk about what she calls toxins in the vaccines that she claims they want removed. Has she ever once given a breakdown of what these supposed toxins are, how they’re supposed to be harmful, and what she and her ilk think should be used to replace them so that the vaccines are ‘safer’ and still effective? She claims to be an authority now that she has her Google Ph.D. Why hasn’t she presented this information yet? I mean, come on, she’s an “expert”.

But then I look at her and how utterly incompetent and irresponsible she is and know there’s no way she’d be able to do that. She’ll just keep screaming “toxins, toxins, toxins”.

*sigh* typing while my kids are bickering. It should say “I can only hope that if the time comes and we see these outbreaks that there’s a national outcry and she’s forced to be held accountable for her words and actions.” not “I can only hope that if the time comes when we see these outbreaks that there’s a national outcry and she’s forced to be held accountable for her words and actions.”

Whenever I come across an anti-vaccine luddite I tell them that I don’t think that vaccines are dangerous but that even if they were, as a parent and grandparent I’d take a 1/150 chance of an autistic child over a 1/4 chance of them dying of a childhood disease.

As Hobbes put it, before the industrial revolution life was short and brutal. It was an unusual family that didn’t have to bury a child.

McCarthy loves doctors and science when she it comes to important things like breast implants and botox (ironic how someone who thinks vaccines are poisons gets injected with botulism extract) but rejects things which keep kids healthy and prevent birth defects.

Ms. McCarthy knows no history so she is not aware of why we vaccinate against measles. We use measles vaccinations more to prevent exposure of pregnant women to measles, which can cause birth defects, than to keep kids from getting sick.

Thank you, Jenny, for your tireless and well-funded efforts to make my job as an ASD parent of an ASD child a living hell. It was way easier to get people to accept and befriend my child before you started spouting this utter shite about them being “shadows.” How you must loathe your own child to subject him to this. My heart goes out to him most of all.

How about “stupidity as dense as a big bang singularity?” Is that strong enough, or do you need more juice added to it?

Scientists Find ‘Baffling’ Link between Autism and Vinyl Flooring

Aw, jeez, now someone’s going to tell us to stop injecting kids with vinyl flooring!

Was it just a throwaway remark, or did Jenny McCarthy just blame ADHD and OCD on toxic vaccines, as well as ASD? Why stop there, Jenny? What about dyslexia? What about Clinical Depression? What about sleep apnea? Parents of children with developmental disabilities and abnormal psychology need something to blame!!!

yeah, deatkin, I noticed that too.

turning into quite the broad spectrum!

doesn’t that kind of make it harder to figure out what exactly is going on with Autism, conflating it with Tourettes and Retts and OCD and general anxiety and ADD and SAD and bunions and . . .

They are simply adjusting the goalposts yet again. The autism link becomes more and more implausible with Wakefield and mercury being dead ends, formaldehyde being laughable, anti-freeze being someone’s misunderstanding, aluminum coming up empty (they just *know* it’s bad, but can’t figure out why).

Generation Rescue has to recast the net in a wider area if it is to keep the ad revenue .. err, I mean “donations” coming in.

That’s right. In Jenny’s warped world, your children are acceptable collateral damage in the cause of promoting her unscientific belief that vaccines cause autism.

Ever notice that all of the proponents of anti-vax stupidity are well off white people. At least I’ve yet to come across one who wasn’t. Any of you know of any? Why do you suppose that is? When affluent white people start to drop dead of, or suffer lingering agonizing deaths from, vaccine preventable diseases then, and only then, will people begin to wake up from the madness. Clearly the plight of the poorer (you have to assume that not all of them are poor by their nations’ standards) brown and black people suffering from vaccine preventable diseases is not sufficient to move people who think like Jenny McCarthy.

Idea: invent some new “indigo child” story to convince Jenny that her kid isn’t autistic after all, he’s just a different kind of special. We could even work into it the vaccine angle, not as causing the “specialness”, but just bringing it out, so that vaccines are perfectly safe for kids who aren’t “special”, and will actually be a good thing to reveal the “specialness” of some kids.

Just basically give her some new woo to latch onto. Designed so she won’t be, you know, killing people.

Samantha at 9:35 makes a good point. None of these people who are opposed to vaccines have ever seen what a world without them looks like. I suggest they all go a live two or three years in Liberia, or Sierra Leone, or Guinea, or Mali, or Burkino Faso, or the CAR, or Congo. And I don’t mean live in a tourist hotel in some major city, but in a bush village.

But then I realize that even if they did, they are so utterly devoid of the ordinary faculties of reason, that they would misunderstand the experience.

It is a pity there are such abject fools in the world, it is a crime that their benighted opinions are given wide currency by malicious greedy fools.

I have held back from saying this, but really, I hate nothing more than “celebrities” who come out for a cause ONLY after it affects them. Then, due to their money and who they know, they can back whatever doctor/quack that spews the dribble they believe and want to hear. Add to that mix their self-centeredness and sheer ignorance of anything scientific and methinks we have a movie of the week!!

In Orac’s warped world, everyone’s children are acceptable collateral damage in the cause of promoting his pharmaceutical funded so-called scientific belief that vaccines are safe and don’t cause autism.

Oh, did I forget to mention that vaccination rates are dropping all over the world too? I cannot believe that it slipped my mind. Well, I’m off to celebrate this huge victory! Thank you Orac for reminding me how important this battle really is.

Did anyone see Jenny and Jerry Kartzinel on Good Morning America? Sawyer let them slip and slide all over the place. It’s autism–ooooops! It’s also asthma! And it’s the top three bad things in the environment! What are we talking about? Who cares!

My god, Dawn, you are insane.

People like you are advocating that we go back to the dark ages when a bout of “the flux” might most likely kill lots of people around you.

Don’t like vaccines? How about the certainty of burying at least one child per family? How about the certainty that you probably wouldn’t live until the age of forty?

The fact is that vaccines and medicine in general, have transformed the human experience in more positive ways than anyone could have possibly imagined. Tell somebody from the year 1909 that the “plague” of influenza would no longer kill them a century later and they might look at you as if you were mad.

Then again, that is exactly what you are. Mad. You are insane to want to go back to that time. Do you have any idea of what polio did to the human race? Do you have any inkling of the millions of children and adults who were killed because we had no vaccines against diseases?

I suspect that you think we should all go back to a more “natural based” lifestyle, whatever the hell that means. You’re simply a modern-society tamer version of the Taliban, screaming about a more “holistic” time which never existed. Life was short, ugly, and brutish. Perhaps that is what makes it so attractive to you in some ways: like often attracts like.

For those writing to the editor, one small caution: the piece was written by Time’s science editor.

Was Karzinel really blaming my carpeting for autism? Does that mean the drapes cause impetigo? Can I catch an STD from the wainscoting? I’m freakin’ out, man!

Dawn said “Oh, did I forget to mention that vaccination rates are dropping all over the world too?”

Did you forget that measles is returning to those countries. Especially places like Germany, the UK and Switzerland. From http://www.epha.org/a/3408

The countries with the highest prevalence of the disease (Germany, the UK, Switzerland, Italy and Romania) are also the countries where the vaccination rates are below 90 percent, which is well below the World Health Organisation’s target of 95 per cent.

Children getting measles with a one in a thousand chance of serious complications from deafness, blindness, mental retardation to even death actually makes you happy!? You are one sick cookie.

I wonder exactly when advocating against vaccinations can fail to be free speech. If a reasonable person were likely to take action based immediately on the speech, and such action constituted a “clear and present danger” to the community, the speech is not protected. What McCarthy and her ilk do is akin to walking into a hospital for the severely depressed and advocating suicide. If they actually believe that their words will cause people to not vaccinate children, their words are criminal.

I like the term fractal wrongness:The state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person’s worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person’s worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.

There’s a motivational poster for is as well, but I don’t know how to post the link.

“Did you forget that measles is returning to those countries. Especially places like Germany, the UK and Switzerland.”

No doubt due to immigration from some of the “enlightened” countries where religious leaders claim vaccines are part of some Jewish conspiracy to wipe out future martyrs. My kids were born there (one Germany, one Switzerland). Each received their first vaccines on the first visit to the pediatrician.

Chris, you’re being rational. You cannot begin to comprehend the intensity of Dawn’s self-centeredness, and her nigh-sociopathic inability to care about anyone but herself.

If you told her that she could cure her kids of autism/prevent them from getting it by grinding up six babies and feeding the slurry to them, she’d have a Deluxe-sized Bass-o-Matic and a chute set up so fast it would make your head spin.

Because anything, ANYTHING AT ALL, no matter what is acceptable to Dawn and the rest of her crew as long as it means she doesn’t have to ever deal with the most probable cause of Autism: A bad draw in the genetic lotto.

If it means she can blame someone else for her kids autism, she’d put every doctor in a camp and her pulse would never twitch.

Don Miguel, the reason for lowered vaccination in Switzerland and Germany are the Waldorf schools. It is nothing to do with immigration. See:
http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=18838

The outbreak described here indicates that the anthroposophic community also is an at-risk group of measles spread, because many parents in this group choose not to vaccinate their children with the MMR vaccine [4]. Anthroposophy, based on the writings of the mystic and social philosopher Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925), combines human development with an investigation of the divine spark found in all of nature. The movement has marked education (Waldorf/Steiner schools) and medicine. Anthroposophical doctors emphasise nature-based therapies that support the body’s innate healing wisdom. Antibiotics, fever-reducing agents, and vaccinations are used at one’s own discretion only [5].

Autumn wrote;

“I wonder exactly when advocating against vaccinations can fail to be free speech.”

Yea, the yelling fire in a crowded theater limit of free speech has been suggested before I believe.

There is a joke told by a movie critic about a poor performance in a movie role and I can picture Jenny McCarthy as the subject of the joke.

Jenny McCarthy played Ann Frank in the story of Ann Frank. She was so bad that when the NAZI’s were pounding on the door of the Frank home everyone in the audience yelled at the screen, “SHE UPSTAIRS IN THE ATTIC!!!!”

No, no, no. They’re right. If you take away vaccines you *will* get many less kids with Autism.

Because, instead, there will be many less kids.

Jenny McCarthy. Pro-Death.

Yeah, we can go back to the good old days of paralyzed diaphragms and iron lungs. How would she like to spend her life in an Iron lung ward? Maybe she’ll get an overdose of botox one day.

I read in the news about a woman dying about six months ago in a power failure, because her at-home iron lung failed and so did the backup system.

My favourite cousin (older than I) had polio when he was four and limped badly for the rest of his life with one leg several inches shorter than the other.

The woo is spreading and doing its damage. My son is thinking he won’t get his cats vaccinated, because it might not be good for them and might not do any good. I gently remind him that even cats live a lot longer than they used to and that distemper is an incurable viral disease. Even indoor cats can get it from the dust people track inside.

Nobody called me to ask which one I preferred. I’ll take autism over measles, thanks. Not that it’s actually a choice. But nice of her to speak for me again.

Problem is not Jenny. Problem is all the rest of idiots who give her attention; all the primitives who pray over a sick kid; all the religious types that beat a kid to death because he did not say amen. Too bad there is no vaccine against stupidity – have you noticed the ever increasing numbers lately? We don’t let them kill themselves because all the protections (Caution: the beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot)

Throughout the blog nobody mentioned pertussis – that is another bad one that used to kill perfectly good babies. And what about yellow fever and all manner of tropical diseases against which you need to be vaccinated to “safely” travel to tropical locales. The sad part is that unvaccinated kids have nothing to say about the problem while their vaccinated parents grew up and reproduced.

Autistic, ADHD and OCD children are Shadows? Shadows???? How f**ing dehumanizing … how can these people talk about THEIR OWN CHILDREN this way? Earth to Jenny McCarthy: being diagnosed with a mental or developmental problem does not make you worthless.

And polio is REALLY F*ING HORRIBLE. If you’re willing to accept its return to avoid a NONEXISTENT risk… I don’t even know anything strong enough.

Erm, sorry to over-rant, but this is just unbelievable.

@dt:
>>And anyway, the infant of a Playboy model would in my >>book be considered as being at quite high risk of getting >>congnital infections such as Hep B from its “high risk” >>mother, and would merit being vaccinated.
Well, maybe. Not *all* Playboy models necessarily would have that kind of history. It doesn’t automatically follow that someone engages in risky sexual behavior just because they’re willing to be photographed nude. (I’m sure there’s a lot of overlap between the groups, but not 100%).

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