It’s about time…

I got my h1n1 last week and in canada, yep, it’s got all the goodness of thimerosal! I think ours even have delicious adjuvants too.

Actually, it just feels very good to know I won’t get sick, and that I won’t spread the flu to my grandma or to a friend’s newborn babe, since they can’t get vaccinated yet.

No major side effects. One doozy of a sore arm for a day or so. Convinced my mom to get it after I reassured her some of the stuff used to produce vaccines, they let us handle in first and second year biology and biochemistry classes.

OH NOES!!!! Too many vaccines too fast. Hasn’t Dr. Jenny taught you anything?

Jim Carey’s going the rounds of the chat shows, ostensibly stumping for his new movie, but of course getting in free shots for Generation Rescue. Is it me, or does it seem to you folks that there’s about 5 woo-friendly quack fans for each rational skeptical celebrity ?

If you get dystonia you know who to call right? 😛

Would you educated medical type folks recommend getting it if you’re in the Southern hemisphere? Flu season is over, and it’s been topping at 25-35 degrees C for the last week. And I just really really wanna be autistic, y’know. The cholera and typhoid and DPT and polio booster and Hep shots I’ve had in the last couple of years haven’t done it for me yet, but I live in hope. 🙂

I think that for the past 16 years, I’ve gotten free flu shots from the Home Care agency I worked for, all of them with thimerosal, of course. Last Friday, I got my regular flu shot from the Vet’s Clinic. The H1N1 shots hadn’t come in yet, but I’ll probably get it next month at my regular checkup. Sadly, I’ve never detected any increase in my autisticity. 😉

Orac, I grew up in the military of the mid 1950s to late 1960s. We spent most of our time outside of the USA. Back in those olden days, we had to have our vaccinations repeated every 6 months to be sure we were covered. We received: Polio, Smallpox, Typhus, Typhoid, DPT, and Cholera, although it seemed like we were getting more. The vaccinations had much more thymerisol and were not nearly as purified. I don’t remember any of my playmates being diagnosed with autism, but I do remember siblings and friends becoming very ill from the measles and mumps.

You never cease to amaze me Orac…you should take up stand up comedy.
Just to fill you in, Thimerosal is a toxic substance, which i wouldnt add to your tea or coffee…I can imagine you slipping a little thimerosal intro your patients pills, to put that extra jiggle into their step!

Autism,the epidemic is entirely in children,,,am i right? Not adults. To say as adults youd get autism from a vaccinme is as silly as saying the vaccine is free from any harm:

‘Four days later, on October 20, the baby died. “I never thought that it was due to the vaccine,” said the father. “It was only after I reached Thimphu that the possibility of the vaccine’s side effect was made.”

She is the third baby, all less than two months old, to die in a week’s time after receiving the vaccine. The same day, another two-month old baby from Gelephu was also admitted in Thimphu. The baby’s condition is improving, say doctors.’
http://www.kuenselonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13837

So while babies are dying or going autistic, lets let Orac woo woo!

Brian, I do hope you don’t let children ride in cars or take baths. Or eat fast food, for that matter. Because all of those are known to have caused far more “adverse effects” in children than vaccines.

Think of the children! *gasp!* *wring hands*

— Steve

@mk #18:

Brian…

3) You’re an amoral, vicious moron who would prefer allowing children to die of pretty nasty diseases to giving up his self-delusions.

Fixed it for you.

You know, I think I’ll ask the nurse for extra thimerosal.

Huh – I bet you’re one of those people who holds up the line while the barista makes you a double-shot half-caff extra-foam latte, aren’t you? Some people are never satisfied.

Mmmmm… thimerosal… /Simpson drooling

C’mon Orac, make yer own dang squalene just like everbody else does!

grump, grump, grump
darn kids

fusilier
James 2:24

Orac,
Out of curiosity, what percentage of employees at your hospital who can get the vaccine will? Seems that I have heard (actually a story on NPR several weeks ago)that hospital staff have a fairly low compliance rate for vaccinations.

The quote is “But the CDC’s Sheedy says that doctors and nurses have always been tough sells when it comes to the flu. Vaccination rates for the seasonal flu have never topped 50 percent for health professionals — and usually hover barely above 40 percent.”

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113873021

I found this quote, if true, particularly disturbing. If MDs and nurses (who should be in the “know”) aren’t getting the shot why should anyone else.

As a side note I know several PhDs who do basic research on developing new vaccines who also refuse to get a yearly flu shot.

On a side side note I get the flu vaccine every year.

We finally have the H1N1 vax here in Austin, TX. Supplies have been awful and reserved for pregnant women only. Now they have enough for limited 6mo- 23 month kiddies, so I’ve been stalking my pediatrician for the past week. I got him an appt for Thurs to get it!

PeterD: “Not too many people at the vaccination center.”

I’m not that surprised. I know that where I am, the H1N1 vaccine is only being given to people in certain risk groups, such as pregnant women, young kids, and medical personnel, because there’s only so much of it available. 🙁

Here in Houston I’m being told the vaccine is available for pregnant women and young children ONLY. I’m in two OTHER high-risk groups. I’m basically just trying to work from home as much as possible. Not this morning though 🙁

Sometimes I wish I WAS in a high-risk group. I wasn’t even able to get the seasonal shot this year due to an (apparently local) shortage.

You know, I’ve been mainlining thimerosal on a daily basis for the last 10 years, since I quit my heroin/crack/toxicwhatever/coffee enema habit. As I built up tolerance I started injecting it right into my aorta, just for the rush.

Then 2 weeks ago I got the seasonal flu vaccine. Wouldn’t you know it, within minutes I was autistic. Damn! How ironic is that?

Got both seasonal and H1N1. No problems from either. Stories locally of H1N1 lines stretching down the block. I guess idiots like brian aren’t as scary as daily news stories of H1N1 deaths in the area. Toxins indeed.

Got the seasonal a couple of weeks ago with my physical. Although I could weasel into a high risk group With my mild asthma, I am going to wait until I get the H1N1 from my doctor. I figure it is probably better to wait till then rather than standing in a line up of unvaccinated people for 3 hours.

Here the biggest controversy regarding the H1N1 vaccine concerns the Calgary Flames hockey team and their families getting the H1N1 shot a couple of days before the clinics had to shut down temporarily due to running out – long before they had gotten though even half of the at risk groups.

in the “know”) aren’t getting the shot why should anyone else.

As a side note I know several PhDs who do basic research on developing new vaccines who also refuse to get a yearly flu shot.

The reason for this is rarely for fear of the vaccine. They just don’t see the use for it. Especially researchers, who are normally not in contact with patients, and see no use in taking a dose which would be more useful to somebody else.

The supply of seasonal vaccine is not sufficient to vaccinate everyone, and normally it’s reserved for the old and chronically sick, their close family and medical personnel.

However, medical personnel not getting vaccinated is quite inexcusable for me, especially those whose patients are in at risk groups. The reaction of people to flu death toll of the chronically ill infuriates me : “They would have died anyway”. That sounds just fine and dandy until your 87-years-old grandmother or your child with leukemia die because they were infected by an idiotic nurse or MD who refuses to take a one-in-a-million risk to avoid the premature death of the people he or she is supposed to take care of.

The problem is that we’re not used to deal with deadly infections on a personnal level. Awareness of how infections are tramsmitted and responsability for our own behavior in spreading them is not very implanted in our society. But eventually we’ll need to focus on it, just as we’ve got to condemn the misuse of antibiotics. It’s a matter of survival.

I got the H1N1 last Friday, not in a risk group, but a lefover after working hours from a doctor i know (the multiple doses glasses have to be administered within 24 hs of opening, or thrown out as I gathered). Still no autism. And here in Norway we have the one with BOTH thimerosal AND adjuvants. My shoulder muscle was sore for two three days, but still no problem using it for exercise or other stuff.

But reg. the point from the Aussies here, why aren’t your Gvmt recommending this shot for kids under 10? Are they too drinking some of the kool aid? The recommendations over here were first not for kids under 3 years of age, but then changed to under six months of age, because of the spread of the disease…

brian:

davenoon..why dont you and Orac put your thimerosal where your mouth is, and swallow it,..if its so safe….

Actually, I used to swallow thimerosal regularly. It was an ingredient in the saline solution I used for my contacts. Dribble it in your eyes, and it’s gonna go down your throat eventually. (Eyes drain to nose, nose drains to throat, throat drains to stomach.) There was also thimerosal in the saline that I used to prepare my nebulizer doses, so I was inhaling it too. Eventually, as the fearmongering created a market for thimerosal-free saline,the manufacturers started replacing it with other products.

Which posed a bit of a problem for my mother. Thimerosal never bothered her, but she’s allergic to some of the newer preservatives used in eyedrops. So she has to get preservative-free eyedrops, which are expensive, and sold in these single-use plastic thingies that are a real pain to crack open.

Got my shot a few weeks ago. I work in health promotion, so we counted as health care workers. Now of course we actually might be at higher risk, as they are pulling us out of our offices to work at the H1N1 vaccine clinics. There have been crazy lineups here. Some people waited 8 hours, and then didn’t even get the shot because they ran out.

I am a bit surprised you are only getting the H1N1 vaccine now. I work at a hospital here and was able to get it last week. And as others have mentioned this was the adjuvant containing one, though they had a version without that for pregnant women if they wanted it.

My son gets his first dose of H1N1 vaccine today too.

Pregnant in upstate New York, and still waiting for H1N1 vaccine to become available….*sigh*. Oh well, at least I got my season flu shot a month ago.

Dan Weber: “Could we generate more seasonal flu vaccine if we knew that there would be a consistent demand for it?”

We’d be able to produce a lot more vaccine in response to a significant threat like H1N1, if we had more companies manufacturing vaccine in the U.S, instead of having to depend on foreign sources like Australia, where promised H1N1 vaccine exports were retained for use in that country. We’d have more U.S. firms in the vaccine business if it wasn’t for factors like potential lawsuits and anti-vaccine fearmongering.

Interesting that a new USA Today/Gallup poll finds that 58% of respondents place moderate to great blame on the government for H1N1 vaccine shortages, and 62% blame drug companies. No word on how many blame antivaxers, or if pollsters even thought to ask that question.

By the way, I went to Subway for lunch and couldn’t resist getting a tunafish sub in honor of brian. I’d barely started eating it before I felt perkier and more alert.

Just got mine today (a pleasant surprise – I visited my family doc to renew a Rx, and he mentioned they had H1N1 vaccine). I’m in Toronto, where vaccine shortages (and the unfortunate recent deaths of children from flu) have led to long lines at vaccine clinics, which are still only for high-risk people.

Of course, in Ontario, we aren’t supposed to get the seasonal flu shot until we’ve had H1N1 vaccine … *sigh*

Tomorrow, November 11, will mark two weeks since I got my H1N1 flu shot, adjuvanted, with thimerosal, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline. (I even have the vaccine lot number too :D)

Two weeks. Still not more autistic.

I mean, I’m an autistic adult. By getting a vaccine with thimerosal, wouldn’t it mean that I’ll become MORE autistic?

oh, wait wait wait. According to the accounts, autism develops MONTHS after vaccines. Well, dang, I guess I better not call off the “Happy More Autistic” party quite yet.

Emma, call your county clinic. I’m in Saratoga County and they have it.

@LibraryGuy

Just remember to include chelation therapy to cure yourself. I understand chocolate cake is perfect for that.

I would’ve suggested rhubarb pie. Rhubarb acts as a chelator, it’s high in fiber, tastes good and it’s all natural! Granted, excessive dosing can lead to unsavory consequences.

Kowalski, I didn’t make an exact claim about what autistic kids need. “Proper therapy” is a loose term meaning whatever therapy is appropriate to their specific case. I meant it in contrast to the torture that the anti-vacc nuts are out there inflicting on these kids. Which I unequivocally condemn.

It’s my understanding that there are genuinely helpful therapies for speech, physical coordination and behaviour issues. And since autism is a spectrum disorder, not all kids need exactly the same kind of help. My information comes from reading popular materials, such as Orac’s blog, Temple Grandin’s book, and the neurodiversity blog at http://www.neurodiversity.com

Had my H1N1 shot this morning. I didn’t even feel it and my arm isn’t sore.

Figuring the more the merrier, I then went out for sushi for lunch.

BoxNDox,

You and I may be long-lost internet twins. I had a delightful nasal H1N1 vaccine this morning, and decided this evening to have a chaser of both spicy tuna AND salmon sushi rolls. I did have them with brown rice to chelate all the MERCURY! TOXINS!11!1!

What I did learn this morning is that I’d never be a good cocaine addict. I wasn’t very good at snorting that tasty thimerosal.

UGH, I was reading the local free-weekly newspaper (Santa Cruz GoodTimes) and they had a survey of 4 people, and if they were going to get the vaccine, and whynot. Needless to say, 3 of 4 were a resounding “No” with reasoning that “H1N1 doesn’t exists” “Having love in your heart makes you immune to germs”(WTF!?) and my favorite “I don’t get shots”. Luckily the one rational mind in the group had a good answer “I’m pregnant, and H1N1 is very dangerous for pregnant woman and infants” Sometimes I hate this overly-woo-friendly town…
http://www.goodtimessantacruz.com/santa-cruz-local-opinion/289-are-you-getting-the-h1n1-vaccine-why-or-why-not.html

Our local health department is holding clinics in our schools. Some parents are keeping their children home on the day the clinic is held in their child’s school. I’m not sure what they think will happen. I would prefer they keep their unvaccinated children away all the time.

One of my kids got H1N1 vaccine yesterday, the other one is getting it tomorrow. Both have exchanged comments with their peers who are spouting antivaccine nonsense. There is probably some not-so-repsectful insolence involved. Especially from the 12th grader who is a champion debater and smart boy.

Corina Becker: Your story reminds me of several weeks ago when my wife and I took our two boys (the eldest of whom has an autism diagnosis, the other suspected) to get our seasonal flu shots. My wife did ask if they had thimerosal-free pediatric shots (despite neither of us thinking anything wrong with it – call it an unnecessary precaution), and after we all got our shots, I somewhat unthinkingly asked her if she had asked the nurse who gave the shots to make sure they were thimerosal-free. Her response: “What’s it going to do, make them more autistic?” I had trouble containing my laughter at that point.

On-topic: The school I teach at had H1N1 shots on Friday free to any students who wanted it, and about a third of the students (I think) took advantage of the offer. I was disappointed the numbers were so low and that I couldn’t get it (it was only offered to faculty with serious health conditions, and I’m too healthy). I know that part of it is anti-vaccine idiocy, and I’m really doing my best to combat it when students have suggested that it isn’t safe (and I even spent time talking in one of my English classes about how the Desiree Jennings case is bunk). Fighting ignorance and misinformation is an uphill battle, no doubt.

We have been lucky in our county, have rec’d three shipments of H1N1 vaccine, have vaccinated approx 7K residents (about 4% of the county) in the last three weeks.

No reports of dystonia, third arms or other mutations yet. Maybe it’s too soon?

mk:
‘Brian…

1) Just because B follows A that does not mean A caused B.
2) People like you think all vaccines are harmful. You advocate for people to die.
3) You’re a moron.’

you believe all vaccines are harmless…that makes you the biggre moron.
Hippocrates: ‘First of all DO NO HARM’
=============================

joseph:
‘brian: No, you’re definitely not right. Autism is found in adults about as often as it is found in children.’

I mean autism that is ADULT ONSET…so someone getting vaccinated at 25 and becoming autistic…
================================

LibraryGuy
‘Just remember to include chelation therapy to cure yourself. I understand chocolate cake is perfect for that.’

===============================

This is the attitude that led to the use of vaccines: these were also thought to cure or prevent disease…but like Chocolate cake, they dont work. They can GIVE disease by bypassing the defences

dr what?
‘t the vaccine people. Pregnant women, children, obese folks and healthcare workers at the front of the line please.’

I can just see you pressing pregnant women to get Thalidomide!

as for the thimerosal-addicts, think twice before you give it to pregnant women:

‘Dr.Boyd Haley RESPONSE TO 2008 R. SCHECHTER AND J. GRETHER PUBLCIATION Autism was not a known, described illness until about 1941-3, 8 to 10 years after the introduction of thimerosal and similar organic thiol-mercury compounds in biological mixtures used in medicine and other areas. This argues against autism being a genetic illness.
In 1977, 10 of 13 infants treated in a single hospital by topical application of thimerosal for umbilical cord infections died of mercury toxicity. This same topical was used on adolescents without obvious ill effects which strongly supports the concept that infants are very susceptible to thimerosal toxicity.
The recent increase (starting about 1990) of autism spectrum disorders correlated well with the advent of the CDC mandated vaccine program which increased thimerosal exposures with increased vaccinations. Due to its toxicity, thimerosal would have to be suspect for causing autism. ‘
etc
http://www.whale.to/v/haley_q.html

In case anyone’s interested, here’s the FDA letter to medical providers about H1N1 vaccination, debunking the urban legends about the vaccine being manufactured or tested improperly.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm189691.htm

‘That said, it appears that in Pennsylvania, a large portion of kids 6 months to 5 years old won’t have access to the vaccine, unless they spend hours on the hunt… which is a shame.’

yes enkidu.. then they wont suffer any of the following:

‘Systemic effects were also reported by CSL and Novartis vaccine recipients. Approximately 36% of volunteers that received the swine flu vaccine manufactured by CSL experienced mild systemic side effects. 8% of vaccine recipients reported moderate systemic side effects, and less than 1% experienced a severe adverse reaction to immunization. Severe side effects reported include, malaise, muscle pain, and nausea. Muscle aches were the most common systemic side effect reported by participants receiving the H1N1 vaccine produced by Novartis, and no severe systemic side effects were reported. The following are common whole-body side effects occurring in response to either H1N1 vaccination.

Headache
Malaise (feeling out-of-sorts)
Muscle pain
Chills
Nausea
Fever
Vomiting

====
http://diseases-viruses.suite101.com/article.cfm/swine_flu_vaccine_side_effects
NOTE 1 % in a million victims kis 10000 cases…thats a lot of serious adverse effects….Think your lucky punk!

‘Eventually, as the fearmongering created a market for thimerosal-free saline,the manufacturers started replacing it with other products.’;

sorry you miss your daily drug, Calli… But its strange you claim its safer than saline…when THIS sheet says the opposite?

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/MSDS/EMD/Docs/wcd00026/wcd026b4.pdf

So it looks as if youre lying.
======================
another faker:

‘Had my H1N1 shot this morning. I didn’t even feel it and my arm isn’t sore.

Figuring the more the merrier, I then went out for sushi for lunch.’

He means more mercury….

more on thimerosal:

‘Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact
(irritant). Severe over-exposure can result in death.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
The substance may be toxic to kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS).
Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a
highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human
organs.
p’

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Thimerosal-9925236

NOW why woulds they say its toxic when People like DR R (not his real name!) say its safe!

AH Kathryn: the FDA, that appendage to Big Pharma…
=============
This may explain some of the posts on this site:

‘Thimerosal is a preservative that contains mercury, a compound known to cause brain damage. ‘
http://thimerosal-lawsuits.com/thim2.htm#tox

===================================

meanwhile: beware the FDA:

‘On Feb 9, 2004, the National Autism Association issued a press release that reported on one of the larger studies under review based on the Center for Disease Control’s Vaccine Safety Datalink. The Association reports that independent investigation of CDC data revealed children were 27 times more likely to develop autism after exposure to three thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs), than those who receive thimerosal-free versions.

Let that sink in. 27 times more likely to develop autism. Then consider that our government regulatory agencies had this information for years and deliberately kept it hidden from the public. This failure to warn the public was not due to negligence or laziness, it was a deliberate cover-up and it continues today.

How do we know they had it for years? Because the staff for Rep Dan Burton (R-Ill) obtained an FDA internal e-mail written on June 29, 1999, by former FDA scientist Peter Patriarca, that offered a “pros and cons” assessment of the dishonest statement about Thimerosal in vaccines that the FDA was about to release, and described the questions that could be raised upon its release:

(1) FDA being �asleep at the switch� for decades, by allowing a potentially hazardous compound to remain in many childhood vaccines, and not forcing manufacturers to exclude it from new products.

(2) various advisory bodies aggressive recommendations for use.

(3) the dose of ethyl mercury was not generated by �rocket science�: conversion of the % of thimerosal to actual ug [micrograms] of mercury involves 9th grade algebra.

(4) What took the FDA so long to do the calculations?

(5) Why didn’t CDC and the advisory bodies do these calculations while rapidly expanding the childhood immunization schedule?

The FDA knew.

In 1997, Congress passed the FDA Modernization Act, which required the FDA to review all drugs that contained mercury and determine their adverse effects on humans. For many years, Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, was added to childhood vaccines in multi-dose bottles, basically to increase profits for vaccine makers.

Thimerosal is nearly 50% mercury, which is a known to be extremely harmful to fetuses, infants and children. Beginning in 1987 and throughout the 1990s, it became the main source of mercury in infants and toddlers when the number of vaccines added to the national vaccine schedule nearly tripled.

In 2000, the FDA determined that a 12 to 14-month-old child, receiving vaccines required under the Immunization Schedule, often received four to six shots during one doctor visit. Consequently over time, the child would be injected with as much as 40 times the amount of mercury considered safe.

The corresponding increase in autism is concrete evidence of the link between autism and vaccines. Twenty years ago, autism only affected one in 10,000 children. The Autism Autoimmunity Project reports that the disorder strikes 1 in 150 (or 1 in 68 families) today.

During the 1990s, as some 40 million children were vaccinated, drug company profits soared and there’s no doubt that the companies knew about the dangers of Thimerosal and put profits over the health of a whole generation of children.

The LA Times obtained a 1991 internal memo from the drug company Merck, which proves the company knew then that Thimerosal in vaccines posed a serious health threat. The memo noted that 6-month-old children who received their shots on schedule would get a mercury dose up to 87 times higher than guidelines for the maximum daily consumption of mercury from fish.

etc
http://dissidentvoice.org/June05/Pringle0602.htm

The little Energizer Bunny of Assholish Trollishness is getting worse.

brian, you truly need to read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect and understand that it applies to you.

The “references” you have provided (whale.to and Generation Rescue, for example) are also the very reason that [sane, educated] people mock you. Certainly the “material” from those sites bears very little resemblance to the real world. Not only are you patently not very bright and not very educated, you are also well outside the pale by vicious insults towards parents and the very doctors who are trying to save the lives of people hit by this flu.

Get a clue. Get a grip. Get some manners.

In this part of PA (south central), I have been able to get the H1N1 (nasal mist) for my older 2 kids at a clinic in the local public school and the seasonal and H1N1 shots for my 2 year old. The latter was at a clinic at the pediatrician’s office and there was a nice, healthy line of parents with their little ones. Still need to get round 2 of H1N1 for the little one and seasonal shots for the older 2, but I’m halfway there.

Re. the mercury canard — up until the mid 1950s, babies were exposed to levels of mercury hundreds to many thousands of times higher than the trace quantities they are exposed to today: in teething powders, skin creams and skin powders, rinses for diaper rash, and even patent medicines for worms, all of which were based on calomel, the mercury compound mercurous chloride. Hundreds of babies fell ill every year and dozens of them died from measurable mercury toxicity (sadly, it was 1951 before this was identified as the problem, and another 3 years before calomel-containing products started to be phased out) — this was known at the time as “pink disease.”

Given this incontrovertable historical fact, if autism were in any way connected to exposure to mercury, you would have epxected a “plague” of autism to have been happening ever since the advent of the calomel-based teething powders in the 18th C. right through to the early 1960s, after which we should have seen a massive drop in the incidence of people with autistic symptoms. Same as how there was a plague of pink disease with dozens of infant deaths every year, which dropped precipitously after 1954-55.

Oddly enough (hah), I can find absolutely no mention of such a preponderance of autistic symptoms during the time of heavy exposure of babies to mercury, nor any record or mention or memory of the disappearance of such symptoms in the 60s-70s.

So, why do the alt-med types think that is?

And btw, the MMR jab isn’t linked to autism either, if you follow the research. So I guess that’s ignorance on you part, stupid.

I haven’t got my H1N1 shot yet. We had a clinic at the hospital last week, but it was restricted the staff with frequent patient contact. As a pathologist, I have little patient contact. This week, we have a clinic for other staff, but I’m away at an Infectious Diseases conference, which is kind of ironic.

Maybe next week.

BTW, we have had 3 swine flu deaths at our hospital so far. No vaccine deaths. So brian, take yourself and your misinformation-filled ass out of here. You are tedium itself.

I don’t quite know why Brian keeps contributing his deranged bollocks to this site unless he is some sort of masochist. He reveals himself as an unthinking irrational fool, suffers wholesale destruction of his delusions and subjects himself to the (deserved) abuse of the intelligent but exasperated. I don’t think he realises that people read his stuff for a laugh.
I would suggest that he takes himself off to one of the many sites populated by other loonies who will at least agree with him. He will make no inroads here

MikeMa: Oh, I don’t expect that Wakefield will ever come back to the UK. He has quite the fan following in TX, and he is doing very well for himself despite not being licenced to practice medicine in Texas either — he managed to get Thoughtful House declared a 501(c)3 non-profit, somehow, and he gets $280,000/year from it. It’s not just that he is riding the whole “vaccines cause autism” thing, he’s raking it in and living well.

@KariA #97:

And btw, the MMR jab isn’t linked to autism either, if you follow the research.

Nor, for completeness, does the MMR jab contain thiomersal.

@Tsu Dho Nimh

I inevitably shake my head in disbelief when someone copies and pastes a MSDS as evidence of how bad something is, when the warnings on the sheet are for bulk amounts, like you might find in manufacturing plants.

I still can’t get the shots, we have some local vaccine, but I don’t fall in high risk group and we don’t have enough for everyone

Whew…. just imagine the relief it is to know that no one in my family has gotten the swine flu vaccine and no one has died! I wonder what the odds are for that? Must be one in … um.. one in, help me here, anyway I feel like I won the lottery!

And that’s what matters, isn’t it? It’s that no one in your family paid for your arrogance. Voluntarily becoming a carrier for the disease, infecting someone else whose immune system isn’t as awesome as yours – well, no reason you would care about that, is there? Next time you’re in the supermarket and you see that cute little baby in the shopping cart next to yours, just think about all those diseases you’re passing on. Why would you care? It’s someone else’s family who’s going to sit in the hospital waiting room, wondering if they’ve already seen their loved one alive for the last time.

Tsu Dho Nimh @ 106 – that stuff makes dihydrogen monoxide look positively safe by comparison.

That scary MSDS you posted should become the standard copy paste reply when ever the chemically clueless post hazmat info on a vaccine ingredient.

mikema:’I won’t bother debunking most of it – no time – but early on you linked MMR with autism. Bad joke. Wakefield faked the data in order to market his own competing vaccine. The UK medical board will sanction him for this and likely pull his license to practice in a few days. He’s a fraud and so are you.’

Thanks for admitting you cant debunk any of it! No Wakefield did not fake data…the person making THIS claim is Brian Deer! The very person engaged in a breach of journalistic conduct, and working for a paper with links to the vaccine inductry…

Incidentally, the people who first made the vaccine autism connection were the parents of autistic kids, who took their story to DR Wakefield for him to investigate…

=========================
‘I don’t quite know why Brian keeps contributing his deranged bollocks to this site unless he is some sort of masochist. He reveals himself as an unthinking irrational fool,’

Belly aching Bellerophon goes ballistic!

an American TV show last week accused Deer of journalistic misconduct in reporting a story in which he was a major player without acknowledging this fact. Deer has been trying to deny this ever since.

And since it isn’t true, he’s completely correct to deny it. Deer has never denied the role he actually played in the Wakefield affair, which was to do the investigative journalism that exposed Wakefield’s rigged sample group and fraudulent misrepresentation of evidence, and then provide his findings to investigators from the GMC upon their request. Many antivax morons, such as Melanie Phillips, have made false claims such as “Brian Deer is the complainant” or “Brian Deer was the one to call for an investigation of Wakefield”; Deer has refuted those false allegations, with documentation.

mike: What makes you think the GMC is an honest body?

‘GMC Advises UK Docs To Commit Fraud over MMR

Is medicine institutionally corrupt? Here you will see the UK’s General Medical Council advising UK medical doctors how to commit fraud on the UK’s National Health Service for personal financial gain’
etc
http://stanford.wellsphere.com/autism-autism-spectrum-article/uk-gmc-advises-uk-docs-to-commit-fraud-over-mmr/287835

and of course Deer has been caught committing with the GMC:

‘Eleven days ago, Brian Deer renewed his onslaught against Andrew Wakefield in the Sunday Times. I wrote about it here and made the point that, since Deer’s allegations sparked the General Medical Council case against Wakefield which would not have occurred without his involvement, he was effectively a principal player in the story he was reporting — a clear conflict of interest and breach of journalistic standards.

After I noted this, an American TV show last week accused Deer of journalistic misconduct in reporting a story in which he was a major player without acknowledging this fact. Deer has been trying to deny this ever since.

First he threatened to sue the TV station, denying that he had laid the initial complaint which formed the bulk of the GMC inquiry and claiming instead that the GMC had approached him for information about Wakefield following his stories:

I did not lay the initial complaint against Wakefield. This allegation is a fabrication, albeit rather a small one in the MMR issue. The GMC asked me for my journalistic evidence arising from published stories. It was my public duty to supply my findings to this statutory regulator.

Well, various people did think that Brian Deer’s complaint was the trigger for the GMC inquiry. One of those people, it appears, was Brian Deer. Screenshots record that, on his website, Deer previously boasted that he had instigated the GMC hearing. In May 2007, his website noted:

GMC inquiry: After submissions by Brian Deer to the UK General Medical Council, the doctors’ regulatory body announced a public inquiry in to the affair. Sunday Times December 12 2004.

etc
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3362116/a-deer-in-the-headlights.thtml

SO you were saying?

mike:’Deer is still employed doing real journalism while Wakefield fled the country to be a fake doctor’

Deer is employed by a paper with ties to the pharmaceutical industry…hes a proven fraud. Wakefields discovery must be true as its has the medical profession against him, a proffesion in its vaccine fanaticism stands guilty of injurying the public…They cant probe him wrong, so they try to destroy his character.
I was always interested in why Deer, a journalist with no knowledge of Wakefields field, was doing in his crusade against him…
Now i know

A repost just for brian, from the other thread:

Just like to point out that libel laws in the UK are notoriously friendly to the plaintiff. In the US, if person A accuses person B of libel, then person A much prove that what person B said wasn’t true, or credibly true; in the case of doubt, the case is awarded to person B. In the UK, if person A accuses person B of libel, then person B must prove that what he said was definitely true; if there is any possibility of doubt the case is awarded to person A.

With this in mind, remember that Wakefield brought a case against Brian Deer and Channel Four (UK) for libel, 4 years ago and then dropped that case and paid Deer & CHannel Four’s legal costs before the trial proceeded to its end. THAT would be a very strange thing to do if the allegations made by Deer were even potentially untrue.

Just sayin’.

“I was always interested in why Deer, a journalist with no knowledge of Wakefields field, was doing in his crusade against him…”

To expose the truth about a crooked doctor? It doesn’t take much knowledge of medicine to notice that a doctor is getting a paycheck from liability lawyers to make up evidence for their case, nor to notice that the doctor is hawking his own vaccine in competition with the one that he is being paid to say is dangerous. That raises another question: How much is “brian” being paid to lie about vaccines?

‘Julia a three year old US citizen has just won substantial compensation in the US Federal Court for autism caused by MMR vaccine – says her mother.

What is different about this case? They kept the “autism” word out of the case. Many parents in other US cases have been advised to do this:-

CBS News has found that since 1988, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often in the millions of dollars, to thirteen hundred and twenty two families whose children suffered brain damage from vaccines. In many … cases, the government paid out awards following a judicial finding that vaccine injury lead to the child’s autism spectrum disorder. In each of these cases, the plaintiffs’ attorneys made the same tactical decision made by Bailey Bank’s lawyer, electing to opt out of the highly charged Omnibus Autism Proceedings and argue their autism cases in the regular vaccine court. In many other successful cases, attorneys elected to steer clear of the hot button autism issue altogether and seek recovery instead for the underlying brain damage that caused their client’s autism.”: [Vaccine Court: Autism Debate Continues – Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and David Kirby Huffington Post 24 Feb 2009]’

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/juliawinsmmrcase/

Let Brian Deer slip out of this case.

‘ That raises another question: How much is “brian” being paid to lie about vaccines?’

Whose gonna pay me andrew? Your bosses in BIG PHARMA.

Im not paid to lie (BIG PHARMA does that and kits called PR)..i tell the truth for free.

This from Brian Deer site:

‘Q. Are you involved with any particular organizations at the moment?”

“A. Aside from hurricane relief, which we plan on continuing to financially support for the next few years, we are very involved in the Thoughtful House. It is a clinic started by Dr Timothy Wakefield [a pioneering British gastroenterologist] that is doing research and treatment for autism. Many doctors just sort of regurgitate what pharmaceutical companies and medical journals say instead of listening to parents. Nobody knows his or her child the way a mother knows their child, and if a mother tells you her child was a completely different person the morning after the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, rubella) then she ought to be taken seriously.

“Dr Wakefield is controversial because he listens to these mothers. He has had a lot of success treating children through the colon and with a gluten-free diet. It is amazing to hear parents testimonials about their children getting 90% better through Dr Wakefield’s treatments. I don’t think a parent should ever take “there is nothing that can be done” as an answer. Find a doctor that is willing to listen.
http://briandeer.com/wakefield/thoughtful-chick.htm

which is a further testimony to Dr Wakefield. AND thanks to Brian Deer for bringing it to my attention!

Aw, that poor impoverished Dr. Wakefield. He only makes close to $300,000 a year. (He’s had raises since 2007, you see.)

Except you haven’t presented any real evidence.

Don’t forget the testimony in US Federal Court that showed that when Wakefield was told the PCR data was showing a false positive due to contamination, he went with the false data anyway!

That is documented in these transcripts. I don’t have time to find which day, but just open each one and look for “Chadwick.” There is a another person who figures in that testimony, but all I can remember is that his name starts with a “B.” Anyway, it all pretty much details (without Brian Deer’s input) that Wakefield’s study was fraudulent.

‘And while we’re at it: where’s the names of those doctors, brian? You know the ones, the mainstream doctors who supposedly diagnosed Desiree Jennings with dystonia and said she was incurable? C’mon, buddy-boy, back it up or pack it up! Give us those names, that you yourself said were so easy to locate!

ask the media,its their story…BUT what do u plan to do if u get the names? Go and threaten them? Thats it isnt it,,.,You are so upset at this story you want to threaten the doctors….

Brian you moron!

YOU are the one that has asserted that DJ was diagnosed at JH.

YOU are the one that should a-l-r-e-a-d-y h-a-v-e links to direct statements from the Dr’s. You have already claimed they exist and have stongly implied that you have accessed them.

Put them up or admit that you were lying.

If you’re not big enough to do that, then please shut up and leave.

Link or lose.

ask the media,its their story…BUT what do u plan to do if u get the names? Go and threaten them?

Why, Brian, have you (conveniently) forgotten already? We were going to confirm your version of the Desiree Jennings story! “Its [sic] their story” — oh no no no, Brian, it was your story we were expecting you to support with actual facts, because you were insisting that everyone had to believe that:

• * Desiree Jennings was diagnosed by mainstream doctors with dystonia; and
• * Those same mainstream doctors pronounced her ‘dystonia’ to be “incurable”

and it was when we asked you why anyone should believe that the above two claims were anything but misunderstandings or delusions dreamed up by Desiree Jennings and uncritically taken for truth by Fox News (which is also owned by Murdoch, ZOMGWTFBBQ!) it was you who said that we should believe it because:

• * It was perfectly easy to find out those doctors’ names and where they’d announced their diagnoses of incurable dystonia.

You are being asked to show us the facts behind your extravagant claims, and not just any facts, but the facts that you already assured us that you had found and had found easily.

What does it say about the worth of your words that, when asked to back them up with facts, you bluster and delay and try to change the subject and in fact do anything except back them up with facts?

Aww heck, what am I talking about?? Brian, backing up his words with facts?? Brian can’t even back up his words with a coherent theory! He proved that by ducking out on the question he was asked at 133: IF he really thinks that Wakefield was not paid 435,643 pounds by the Legal Services Commission for his services to “the MMR/MR multi party action”, how does he explain the documents the Legal Services Commission provided to Brian Deer under the Freedom of Information Act which show exactly that?

“Brian Deers paper has ties to BIG PHARMA….”

Uh, Brian? You are aware that Wakefield’s work at Thoughtful House is largely funded by several members of the Johnson and Johnson family, right?

J anmd J is not GSK.
Chris, conspiracies do happen Just ask Richard Nixon.

‘delusions dreamed up by Desiree Jennings and uncritically taken for truth by Fox News ‘

Fox 5 shows the papers from the institutions which examined her. Again, you can clear up your muddle by phoning FOX 5…why dont u? Better than digging yourself a deeper hole!

Jen you forget : Pharma ties only count if the boss of the company that owns the company that owns the company that employs the boss of the company the employs the boss of the boss of the boss of the guy that commissions your work, has – amongst multiple other appointments – one which occasionally calls for him to sit in a room with some Big Pharma guys now and then.

Being directly and indirectly funded by several family members of one of the biggest and oldest ‘Big Pharma’ doesn’t count as a connection in brians world.

Toodles, I need to go use the ocean. Hey, the rest of us call it a toilet, but it’s connected to the sewer, which is connected to the sewerage plant, which is connected to the reservoir system, which is connected to the river system, which is ultimately connected to the ocean.

In black-helicopter brians world it’s all the same thing.

Brian, if you’re talking about this video, it does indeed show “the [sic] papers from the institutions [sic] which examined her”; that is to say, for four seconds it displays part of one piece of paper. Does it say on that paper “dystonia”? No it does not. Does it say on that paper “incurable”? No it does not. In fact, the most obvious thing the paper does say is “IMPRESSION”, suggesting that everything that can be made out from that section of the paper is the symptoms she displayed.

It is not any clinician’s assessment of what those symptoms represent, so it is definitely not an indicator that any mainstream doctor diagnosed dystonia, or any other non-psychogenic disorder.

It is most definitely not a prognosis, either, so it is absolutely worthless as support for your claim that mainstream doctors considered her incurable.

The simple fact is that you still cannot back up the claims that you insist are so devastating. When challenged to back up your claims, you sneer, and jeer, and insist that someone else should go do your research for you and then they’d see that you were right because it’s so easy to find the evidence proving you right. And when challenged to find that evidence yourself, you sneer, and jeer, and come back with “evidence” that doesn’t match what you claimed you were able to prove. Or you change the subject, like you did when challenged to explain the documents that show Andrew Wakefield receiving 435,643 pounds by the Legal Services Commission, something you claimed was just a “fabrication”.

Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools, when you make vehement claims and wild allegations, and can’t back them up?

Antaeus Feldspar:

Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools

Isn’t that what they are?

Antaeus Feldspar:

Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools
Isn’t that what they are?’
=———————–

You may recall, all this began with Desiree Jennings innocently and trustingly doing the right thing and getting vaccinated…and ended up almost losing her life…

@brian: It’s actually like this. James Murdoch was appointed non-executive director of GSK. James is the son of Rupert Murdoch, who heads News Corporation. News Corporation is a huge media conglomerate that has a subsidiary called News International Ltd, which in turn has 3 subsidiary companies, one of them being Times Newspapers Ltd. The Sunday Times, where Brian Deer works, is one of the papers published by Times Newspapers Ltd.

johnv:’there’s just as much proof that those things contributed to her presumably psychogenic condition as her flu shot did.’

except they hadnt done so till she had the vaccine…
and her condition is not ‘psychogenic’ presumably or otherwise.
=========================================
Ded:’n’t you have some homework to do?’

ive done mine…youve yet to do yours

‘Devaluing a person because of their abhorrent personal skills, poor arguementation and crass attempts at insinuating corruption and dishonesty, is called ‘practicing social judgement’.’

LOL…no wonder youre backing vaccination LOL!!
No need to insinuate corruption and dishonesty…when the medical profession admits as much:

‘No other faculty member at Harvard has been as vocal a critic of the pharmaceutical industry as Marcia Angell. A pathologist and former editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, she began raising the alarm in 2000, when she wrote in the NEJM that medical schools were becoming “increasingly beholden to industry.” Harvard, she noted, had long prided itself on its strict conflict-of-interest stance, but she feared it was “in the process of softening its guidelines” in a bid to keep researchers from defecting to institutions with more-lax rules. ‘
http://pharmagossip.blogspot.com/2009/11/bitter-pills-harvard-medical-school-and.html

You DO need to do your homework!

Screw it.

You’re a lost case brian.

You’re so clueless, you could shit in your shoes and still wonder where the smell was coming from.

You’ve done nothing but repeat the same crap over and over again. You’ve even shown a complete lack of knowledge over Wakefield, the crush you’re here to defend. He’s admitted that he was involved with the law firm involved in this, both in the Lancet letters pages and elsewhere, and Melanie Phillips (your source remember?) even tracked the money to the law firm 5 years ago. You can;t even be arsed to read your own sources, you lazy fuckwit.

You are not worthy.

Toodles forever wankstain.

ded:’
First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.’

Lets see, i can believe Desiree, whose been interviewed by FOX 5, and 60 odd doctors, none of whom has denied she was vaccinated…or i can believe you, a nameless faceless shill, whose never met her, never examined her but seems to know what she did on that day in august thats she a liar….

GEE what a choice! Your type is precisely why Desirees case is true and so important..The attacks on her character are signs of desperation…her story is a threat to many vested interests.

‘You’ve even shown a complete lack of knowledge over Wakefield,’

Big bad Dr Wakefield, so mean and bad he actually built a center Thoughtful House to help people and esp kids…how much meaner and badder can u get!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see how this would anger certain types..as its so mean and bad!!!

As brian seems intent on making accusations, some corrective action is needed.

Again:

“First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.”

To add:

The only source that says she was examined by “60 Dr’s” is her. The whole thing is based entirely on her say-so. The vaccination. The 60 Dr’s. The diagnosis. All her, and only her. The entire Fox interview was based on her say so.

So, basically you have no basis for claiming that “Dr’s say”.

This isn’t about her (and your illusory “Dr’s”) versus me. I’m far from the only person to have noticed oddities in her story. People who do have expertise in neurological conditions have noted oddities in the videos of her that do no sync up with her claims. Observation of a persons motor patterns is a known part of any mobility and neurological assessment barrage, so you’re talking shit about that too.

You have been asked mulitple times to substantiate your claims that you have direct references from these Doctors. You have repeatedly lied about having these sources. You have repeatedly shown that you are basically taking everything she says at face value.

“thats she a liar”

I never said such a thing, nor implied it. I’ve worked with people with psycogenic impairments before. All of them have been normal, moral, and of the honest belief that they have the condition. Some have a history of mental illness, but psychogenic impairments can also be found in people with physical conditions.

“Big bad Dr Wakefield”

You claimed he was never paid by lawyers. Wakefield admitted his involvement in the Lancet letters, and Melanie Phillips traced the money back to the law firm involved, even to the exact lawyer. Sorry, but both your sources have contradicted your claims.

Everything you say is either wrong, or based on one persons say-so.

You’re too much of a coward to admit it.

You are no longer entertaining, but are at the stage where you invoke nothing but pity.

‘Thoughtful House” –yeah, real sweet setup he’s got there — he’s managed to get it classed as tax-exempt for its supposedly charitable status, and he takes home $300,000/year. Poor guy is just really suffering to help people, eh? ‘

unlike You Luna, hes not sunning himself in the Bahamas,but working for the very people: the vaccine induced autistic kids, you dont care a jot for.

“Please, may I borrow that line?”

Yes, it’s utterly lost on lower case brian (who still can’t seem to get that claiming reports exist and then refusing to say where they’re available makes him either stupid, a time-watser or an out and out liar) so we may as well get some use out of it.

brian has been giving far too many chance to prove that he isn’t lying about the reports. He has crossed into time-waster tosser territory.

That line is too good to waste on just him.

that is great that you were able to get the H1N1 vaccine for your employees. I really think that everyone that works where I am at should get the shot since they are working with the public so much, but I know that the owner just wouldn’t have anything to do with that because it would cost him too much money to have that kind of thing covered.