Categories
Antivaccine nonsense Autism Medicine

Yet another one in the annals of inadvertently revealing anti-vaccine views

Time and time again, anti-vaccine activists respond to charges of being “anti-vaccine” with a self-righteous wounded whine that goes something like this: “We aren’t ‘anti-vaccine.’ We’re pro-safe vaccine.” Alternative claims are that they are “vaccine safety watchdogs” and that they’d vaccinate if only the government would “green our vaccines” or “space them out” or that they think the government isn’t listening to them or whatever. Of course, all of these are smokescreens for their true agenda, which, at least among the activists, is anti-vaccine to the core.

In fact, so engrained are anti-vaccine attitudes in the movement that claims that vaccines cause autism against all scientific evidence that strongly argues otherwise, that its members frequently make inadvertent slips when writing that reveal their attitude. Examples include J.B. Handley crowing about “bringing the U.S. vaccine program to its knees” and Julie Obradovic advocating in essence destroying the vaccine program in order to save it.

Here is yet another in the annals of such quotes. This time it comes from Anne Dachel “Media Director” at the anti-vaccine crank blog, who is gushing over Dr. Mayer Eisenstein’s new book on vaccines. (Oh, goody.) In her post, Dachel writes:

And as someone who’s been active in the national autism community for a long time, I’ve seen tremendous changes. More and more people are speaking out. We are now an organized and united group, thanks mainly to the power of the Internet. Our message has severely eroded confidence in the cornerstone of health care: THE CHILDHOOD VACCINE PROGRAM.

She says that as though it’s a good thing, as though she’s proud of it, just as J.B. Handley was clearly proud of “bringing the U.S. vaccine program to its knees.” Fortunately, this is hyperbole, but unfortunately “eroding confidence in” and “bringing to its knees” the U.S. vaccine program are clearly what Dachel and Handley freely admit to be their goal. If it wasn’t, why be so proud?

That’s because she, like J.B. Handley, is anti-vaccine, all the denials notwithstanding.

If I’m in the mood, maybe I’ll address the canard of the VAERS reports. Or not, given how many times I’ve pointed out before that VAERS reports are unverified, self-reported “complications” of vaccines and how easily it is distorted by litigation and the anti-vaccine movement.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

187 replies on “Yet another one in the annals of inadvertently revealing anti-vaccine views”

I don’t even have the energy to go through all the selective VAERS citations, but it seems to be the usual song and dance.

AoA: “#298905: A 6-month-old boy received a flu shot and collapsed while eating breakfast the next day. He was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead.”

VAERS: “Patient collapsed while eating breakfast at home. He was taken to the ER and pronounced dead. 12/18/07 Reviewed hospital ER records which reveal patient in usual state of health on 11/27 when coughed & then collapsed at home. Was unresponsive in ER & resuscitation unsuccessful. ER COD stated as sudden cardiac death. 1/21/08 Reviewed autopsy report which states COD as complication from congenital cardiac disease (probable arrhythmia.”

Simple.

@Otto: but, but, but you don’t understand!!!! The EEEEEEVVVVVIIIILLL vaccines caused the congenital cardiac disease!!! The baby was totally healthy and developing normally until then! /end AOA mind

Ooowwwww. I think I gave myself a headache trying to think that way. I am so glad that my employer blocks AOA or I’d be tempted to read the post and really get a headache – or burst out laughing hysterically which would really confuse anyone who is here at this time.

I can just about hear the ‘justification’ for that sort of distortion:

“Well, yabbut, of course you have to know how to read between the lines”

Don’t these whackos know you can always ask your pediatrican to space out vaccines? If you don’t want your child to get 5 or 6 at once, space them out over a week. Most are happy to comply. Oh wait– they don’t want vaccination period.
Whatever was I thinking?

I say bring it on. Job security. Never in my professional life did I expect to see a real-life case of measles or mumps. Now I have.

Of course, I’m being sarcastic about it. Of course I don’t want to see a child EVER go through anything like that.

Queue the posting of the first part of this comment to AoA in 5… 4… 3… 2…

Taking pride in destroying healthcare. Exceptional.

A pox on their stupidity.

Yes, because our health care system can certainly absorb & pay for the treatment of potentially thousands of people who would have to be seen for measles, mumps, etc – plus the added cost of quarantines as well (which we already bear, but multiply x10 or x100 if the vaccine program is eliminated).

Morons.

That anyone at AoA thinks their argument that they’re for vaccine safety after reading them simply shows just how far down the woohole they’ve gone. I admit to a very snarky post yesterday on the subject of AoA’s batshit craziness and their descent into becoming walking ads for woo and mavericky doctors selling books.

On a side note, Countering, for deliciously absurd reasons, is in the top five hits for “pharma ho” searches. May it quickly become one of the top searches for anyone who thinks to ask the google gods, “is AoA batshit crazy?” Right behind Orac’s site, of course. Google searches as a version of ask the eight ball: who would have thought it?

I’ve always wondered what these anti-vaxxers would do if an autism vaccine was shown to be effective.

Can we quote-mine too? This person has just agreed that the childhood vaccination program is “the cornerstone of health care.”

@Lawrence

plus the added cost of quarantines

It’s not the Andromeda Strain moron

Oh yeah Sid – because you’d have no problem with dozens or hundreds of people running around with highly infectious diseases in public spaces (on planes, movie theaters, mass transportation, etc) without any means of trying to control the spread of those diseases – in the worst case scenario of no vaccines, right?

Who’s the moron again?

Yeah we all know how the world ended in 1955 due to the rampant spread of the measles. We don’t want to make that mistake again.

Sid,
You can see what happens if we are not ready for a major disaster. Think oil. I’d rather be prepared especially since you and the fools at AoA are pushing hard for more vaccine preventable disease in the world.

@14 – Sid, in the mid to late 1950s (I was a kid then, but it had to have been before 1959 when we moved) the hospital in our rural area was so full of kids with measles that my sister was not sick enough to be admitted.

She was home, getting IV fluids, antibiotics and oxygen under the watchful eye of my mom (WWII hospital corpswoman) and my dad (WWII medic with battle experience) and a couple of neighbors.

Don’t underestimate the resources that surviving measles requires.

“@Otto: but, but, but you don’t understand!!!! The EEEEEEVVVVVIIIILLL vaccines caused the congenital cardiac disease!!! The baby was totally healthy and developing normally until then! /end AOA mind”

Or, the VAERS report can be discounted because it includes information from medical professionals who probably accepted a free drug company pen during training and are now Evil Pharma Shills for life. Just like the overwhelming scientific evidence for the safety of vaccines can be discounted because it’s all biased, while antivaxers’ cherry-picked reports from people like the Geiers are 100% believable and free from any taint of self-interest.

I had measles as a child – a miserable illness (along with mumps, chickenpox and rubella). I’m glad that my M.D. Pharma Shill father protected me with vaccines available at the time (polio, smallpox). I wish the updated vaccine series had been available then, but at least kids now don’t have to risk contracting all those diseases, unless their uninformed parents (largely vaccine-protected themselves) place them at risk.

You should go and learn how to write and think in a manner not consistently involving false dichotomy, Sid, before you come back and try to post here.

Maybe you wouldn’t read like such an idiot.

So Sid has no problem filling our currently over-burdened hospitals with thousands of new patients? And who exactly is going to pay for this care?

Of course, I guess we could just shunt those people to homeopaths, right?

OT(but are the misadventures of self-promoting woo-proselytizers *ever* _really_ OT here?)Today,Mike Adams appears to be announcing that,after two years of hard-selling the naturalistic,non-toxic wonders and health-freedom-friendliness of his newly-adopted home of Vilcabamba(a/k/a the “Valley of Longevity”),Ecuador,he is seeking “more privacy” and his home is for sale(for six figures)in the lovely gated community he talked up so convincingly these many months.Perhaps,like Gary Null and frequent guest,”trendcaster” Gerald Celente, he foresees the oncoming economic collapse(in 24-36 months),societal chaos,anarchy,gang warfare,food riots,etc. and feels that he needs to get even further away from civilization to weather the storm(in a self-reliant,sustainable fashion) until the “renewal” occurs.Celente and Null are betting on Kingston, NY.

Just like the overwhelming scientific evidence for the safety of vaccines can be discounted because it’s all biased, while antivaxers’ cherry-picked reports from people like the Geiers are 100% believable and free from any taint of self-interest.

That reminds me of an exercise I did recently, trying to list people with a direct financial stake in “vaccines (do not) cause autism”, on either side. I came up with:

1. The petitioners’ lawyers in the Omnibus.
2. All DAN! doctors.
3. A pile of people whose entire apparent livelihood is based on anti-vax blogging/advocacy, including Wakefield, Fisher, and Handley.

I couldn’t come up with a single individual who openly advocates the position that vaccines don’t cause autism AND has a direct financial stake in that position. There’s a clear financial interest for vaccine manufacturers, but in general they don’t actually talk about it while those like Orac, SBM, CDC, AMA, AAP do – and lack such a stake.

Out of context, I would have assumed some of these quotes came from an Evil Genius in some B-movie. “And if the government refuses to pay my ransom, then I will set in motion my evil plan to erode confidence in the cornerstone of health care: THE CHILDHOOD VACCINE PROGRAM. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!”

I couldn’t come up with a single individual who openly advocates the position that vaccines don’t cause autism AND has a direct financial stake in that position.

Paul Offitt.

Not saying that as a criticism, mind you, but to suggest that there’s nobody who advocates vaccination and stands to make a profit from vaccines is just a bit disingenuous.

We’re not dealing with saints, just science.

so here is a question: i could link to the quote orac posted above (eroding confidence in childhood vaccines) on my facebook page, along with a snarky comment, and then link to the AofA article. but would that be better or worse? if someone followed the link they would end up at the age of autism drivel. on the other hand, feeling glad about eroding confidence in the cornerstone of health care is so horrible, and telling.

Sure, Sid Troll, I bet California tax payers really want to repeat this where “Hospital costs amounted to $18 million, two thirds of which was paid for by Medi-Cal.” Not.

This is slightly OT, but it was in the comments of that AoA article:

“I increased my son’s [vitamin] D3 before his DAN recommended it (and he potty trained within one week of the increase).”

LOL Talk about correlation not equaling causation!

One thing I don’t understand about the anti-vaxxers is why they do this. Is it a religious thing? Do they somehow profit off of it? Are they seriously evil enough to toss thousands of children into the grave just to sell books?

Chris: “Sure, Sid Troll, I bet California tax payers really want to repeat this where “Hospital costs amounted to $18 million, two thirds of which was paid for by Medi-Cal.” Not.”

Chris’s link says:
“Measles is a serious disease that can result in severe complications requiring lengthy and costly hospital stays.”

in 1967 the CDC said:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf

“The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare.”

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf

“The mothers of many infants who developed measles were young, and their measles immunity was most often due to vaccination rather than infection with wild virus. As a result, a smaller amount of antibody was transferred across the placenta to the fetus, compared with antibody transfer from mothers who had higher antibody titers resulting from wild-virus infection. The lower quantity of antibody resulted in immunity that waned more rapidly, making infants susceptible at a younger age than in the past.”

Nothing like screwing up natural immunity and then blaming natural immunity.

“Overall incidence rates were highest for Hispanics and blacks and lowest for non-Hispanic whites. Among children younger than 5 years of age, the incidence of measles among blacks and Hispanics was four to seven times higher than among non-Hispanic whites.”

Something to think about. Why? Does this apply to educated health conscious people of today or are all non-vaccinating people considered equal by science blogger standards?

unistrut, they are getting paid in the one currency they crave – attention. How else would a D-list has-been celebrity like Jenny “indigomom” McCarthy or a college kid like Jake Cosby have an audience. But there’s also a massive industry of “alternative treatments”, which, while not directly profiting from not vaccinating, make a lot of money of the same clientele by convincing them that they cannot trust regular science-based medicine.

BB @ 4: actually, many many pediatrician offices are NOT happy to play Lets make a Deal with vaccine schedules. There is a method to the schedule, and barring contraindications (like febrile illness at a point when should be getting vaccines) We as a group, would really truly prefer that parents follow the recommendations of the health and science community about when and how to vaccinate… you know..the “CORNERSTONE OF HEALTHCARE”

Sid Officious… @ several blog droppings above.. you are clueless or ignoring facts. Epidemic illness in this country would severely stress available resources, result in death and permanent impairment, and generally speaking, be a very scary scenario… but thankfully, for vaccine preventable diseases, it is a AVOIDABLE situation. The logistics of support for large numbers of severely ill people, for example, 100 ‘extra’ ventilator patients out of a illness population of 1000, on top of what is normally happening in a community, can SERIOUSLY exceed the total number of available ventilators in the hospitals.
But hey, please don’t let insight, information, facts, and reality interfere with your postings and opinions.

Anne Dachel:

“And as someone who’s been active in the national autism community for a long time, I’ve seen tremendous changes. More and more people are speaking out. We are now an organized and united group, thanks mainly to the power of the Internet. ”

Yes. More people indeed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37731513/ns/health/

Sid has intimated before that he thinks his high socio-economic status will protect him from diseases, or at least mitigate the symptoms to the point that for him personally, pertussis would be no worse than the common cold.

Unfortunately, while having more money can protect you from sanitation-borne diseases like typhoid or cholera, one doesn’t contract measles or pertussis from drinking contaminated water.

Unless one is prepared to completely isolate themselves at home they remain at risk for the latter diseases.

And before contracting the disease there’s no way to know how severe the course will be, nor can one know which complications will occur.

Oh gee… let’s throw away the most successful public health intervention ever. um… No. but thanks for playing.

Tsu: a “medic with battle experience” to deal with your friggin’ sister who had measles. Jesus. We should also be mercy killing all the old people too because, after all, they do take up alot of public health monies… I say laugh away at people like Jenny McCarthy because in the end, whatever the hell you say, she has her kid back. Kudos to her. Like she fucking cares that you all feel that what she did was not “science-based.” p.s. she also saved you taxpayers alot of money now that her kid doesn’t have to utilize special education and medical services. All you people need to go back to your labs. Do some real safety studies or something.

jen, are you seriously equating providing supportive care for an ill child with euthanizing old people to avoid paying for long term care? That’s either appallingly callous or a total non-sequitor.

(Note: I’m leaning toward the total non-sequitor, because I don’t think you’re really that callous. You’re just a lazy reader and lazier writer, resulting in very sloppy prose. You also evidently don’t think requiring IV fluids to be serious, which shows your mind is either utterly closed to inconvenient facts, or you really don’t have any understanding of serious illness. Which I suppose means you’ve lived a blessed life, so good for you, but don’t rob other people of life-saving care because you think someone *might* have gotten autism, which I’ll note is not fatal. One would have to be very callous indeed to think a person is better off dead than autistic. Note also that Jenny McCarthy has spent huge amounts of money on her son, and continues to treat him — how can you consider him “cured” if he still requires treatment? True, the public school system doesn’t have to pay for it, but that has more to do with her personal wealth than anything else.)

jen, you are as charming as ever. Jenny McCarthy blames the MMR vaccine, typically given between 12 and 18 months for her son’s seizure that occured when he was over two years old. I have touble beliveing anything she says, including the “cured” bit.

Considering McCarthy is advocating that the diseases should come back, she is costing the tax players lots of money. This includes what it cost San Diego’s public health agency to keep the 2008 measles outbreak in check. In the future those listening to McCarthy could cost Medi-Cal much more than what was spent during the 1990 measles epidemic.

@ T.Bruce McNeely: HAHA! If only! But wouldn’t you agree that wherever he** winds up will have internet access,a microphone,and a surfeit of household help? **( the same goes doubly for the other charlatan)

Bluemaxx: “you are clueless or ignoring facts.”

What facts?

Bluemaxx, there is no way you’re a medical doctor. You must be a subordinate.

jen,

I say laugh away at people like Jenny McCarthy because in the end, whatever the hell you say, she has her kid back.

Wait a second. Did I miss the part where Jenny McCarthy’s child was kidnapped?

Wait a second. Did I miss the part where Jenny McCarthy’s child was kidnapped?

Of course – he was stolen by the Faerey folk and replaced with a changeling.

Seriously, I think autism may have been the origin of the changeling myth. The attitude of some of the antivaxxers is not much different from that of parents who thought their child was kidnapped and replaced with a non-human. Ordeal by Foxglove to determine if a child was a changeling is not far off from some the DAN treatments.

Jen-
My son has autism. He is NOT lost. Jenny McCarthy changes her story every time she opens her mouth. If vaccines cause autism, then tell me how my UN-VACCINATED son has autism?? We believed all of you anti-vax idiots and guess what! Our son showed signs of autism as an infant. When it was clear he was autistic at the age of 2, plus all the seizures he’s had since he was around a year and a half old, we had him vaccinated. So tell me, please- how did my son end up with autism? Wait, let me guess… Is it because of contaminated fish? No…. we don’t eat seafood. My husband, my son, and I are vegans who eat organic foods. Also, shortly after our son was diagnosed, my husband was diagnosed with Asperger’s. But nooooo… It can’t POSSIBLY be genetic and it’s all caused by vaccines and can be cured!! BULL!
I feel bad for little Evan, Jenny McCarthy’s son. He will grow up thinking he’s broken and that mommy doesn’t love him for who he is. At least I know my son will grow up to know he is loved, wanted, and accepted. I’m not a bitch who cares more about fame and fortune and selling books than I do about my own child. I don’t want little Evan to contract one of those preventable diseases. But in a way I hope he does so people will stop listening to his loud-mouthed mother.
Also, I work with autistic adults every single day. I have yet to meet one who wants to be “cured”. They want to be accepted! As far as those claims of “miracle cures”, we did try them. Nothing changed. What worked was my son’s therapies to help him improve on his social skills. He’ll always be autistic, but he’ll be able to get a job and communicate with others.

One more thing… How can ANYONE defend Jenny McCarthy when she claims that there are no autistic adults? She’s an idiot. I can’t understand for the life of me why someone would believe someone stupid.

May I, science bloggers, take our little Amanda to task for her emotional diatribe, which is along the lines of the AoA spew that you hate so much. I know that you can’t stand that emotional biased and ignorant crap that just came out of her mouth. I know that you stand for science, reason, and logic and you can’t stand it when someone uses emotion and lack of reasoning when making a point and using anecdotes on top of that.

Please o please let me have her first. Don’t any of you guys/gals jump on her first for being so stupid.

Orac, this one’s mine.

Amanda, no need to feel bad for little Evan. His mom did what she needed to do and he’s come a long way. There are, believe it or not, adults with autism who do feel it is possible that there autism was caused by environmental factors. In your son’s case it sounds like genetics is possibly the case, although maybe you had some vaccines when pregnant or other exposures-believe it or not I think there could be other environmental causes besides vaccines(there seems to be a small percentage for whom it is genetic- small). Just because bio-medical, chelation didn’t work for your child doesen’t mean that they don’t for everyone. I don’t disbelieve the probably thousands who are finding that it has helped their children. That’s also why I tend to think there is a huge environmental component going on here. You guys seem to be missing that fact. Oh yeah, they would have got better anyways, you’ll say. How convenient. When so many doctors are saying they have doubts about the vaccine agenda that also gets my attention. It wouldn’t be easy being a doctor and going against the tide of thought. It must be hellish to be in that position. And, no I don’t believe they are all doing that to rip -off parents. What about poor Dr. Alistair Thore’s Pluserix/MMR dilemmas? That changeling stuff is interesting but doesn’t mean that there haven’t always been some kind of environmental factors. By the way, for what it’s worth I don’t think either you or Jenny are bitches because of the approaches you’ve taken.

Vaccination is a quick simple procedure. If done in a hospital on an infant, without the permission of the parent, the child will not testify to that fact. Is it unethical to do so without the permission of the parents? Of course, but the medical profession is filled with the arrogant self-righeous who presume themselves to have god-like omniscience. Post-vaccination evidence may only be possible through medical records. Testing may or may not show such proof. When I complained to a lawyer about a procedure forced on my underage daughter right in front of me, he told me the courts give doctors discretion for their professional “judgment”. I have absolutely no confidence in an abscence of vaccination in an autistic child.

Vaccination is a quick simple procedure. If done in a hospital on an infant, without the permission of the parent, the child will not testify to that fact. Is it unethical to do so without the permission of the parents? Of course, but the medical profession is filled with the arrogant self-righeous who presume themselves to have god-like omniscience. Post-vaccination evidence may only be possible through medical records. Testing may or may not show such proof. When I complained to a lawyer about a procedure forced on my underage daughter right in front of me, he told me the courts give doctors discretion for their professional “judgment”. I have absolutely no confidence in an abscence of vaccination in an autistic child.

jen @ 50:

In your son’s case it sounds like genetics is possibly the case

Her husband was diagnosed with Aspergers. It is almost certainly genetic. Also, why are you playing down genetics?

although maybe you had some vaccines when pregnant or other exposures-believe it or not I think there could be other environmental causes besides vaccines(there seems to be a small percentage for whom it is genetic- small.)

If she had a vaccine while pregnant, she would have mentioned it. Again, you play down genetics. Why?

Mary Podlesak @ 51 and 52:

If done in a hospital on an infant, without the permission of the parent, the child will not testify to that fact. Is it unethical to do so without the permission of the parents? Of course, but the medical profession is filled with the arrogant self-righeous who presume themselves to have god-like omniscience.

So her son may have been vaccinated without her knowledge causing his autism? I find your hypothesis risible.

Off your meds again, Ms. Podlesak? Or are you a PTA parent who hates the real Mary Podlesak and are trying to make her look like an idiot? We will never know.

Um, jen… did you miss the bit where young Evan’s mom cannot even remember that her son’s seizures were months after he got the dreaded vaccine? Months, as in almost a year afterwards.

Also, why would chelation do anything? It is for certain metals, neither of which are in the MMR. Plus, real chelation will and can remove metals essential for actual life.

I consider it provable, from Jenny’s accounts alone, that EVAN MCCARTHY WAS ALWAYS DIAGNOSABLE AS AUTISTIC. In particular, she describes observing “flapping” (admittedly not what I consider an especially good criterion) by age 1. On top of that, she really hasn’t been able to give any coherent account of any changes in her son’s behavior, just babble about “the soul was gone from his eyes”. It’s time for this figurehead to go overboard.

I just thought of an experiment: Take the children of vaccine refusers, give them injections in front of their parents, and tell them they’ve been vaccinated. Only, half the children will have received no vaccine, just some kind of placebo. Then, when the “control” parents go on Oprah screaming that their children were injured by compulsory vaccination, then there will be experimental proof that they are delusional.

@Bill

Sid has intimated before that he thinks his high socio-economic status will protect him from diseases

I hope you’re not trying to intimate that I don’t care about the small people because I do. I care about all the small people

augutine @ #34:

Nothing like screwing up natural immunity and then blaming natural immunity.

Please provide credible evidence for your baseless assertion.

Also, nice job ignoring that just because a measles infection is often not very harmful, that doesn’t mean that with enough people getting infected that there won’t be serious cases. Oh, but let me guess what you’d say to that augie, something like… “healthy people don’t need expensive medical treatments for the measles” implying that those that aren’t “healthy” enough for you don’t matter. Does that sound like something you’d say?

========================================================================================================
jen @ #42:

I say laugh away at people like Jenny McCarthy because in the end, whatever the hell you say, she has her kid back.

Yet strangely many parents of autistic children that didn’t use Jenny’s therapies (or the other anti-vaxer “therapies) “got their kid back” too? How do you explain that jen?

Jen:

“I say laugh away at people like Jenny McCarthy because in the end, whatever the hell you say, she has her kid back.”

Damn right. I saw the film version of this. I believe it was called ‘Taken’

Sin Offit:

“I hope you’re not trying to intimate that I don’t care about the small people because I do. I care about all the small people”

Ha! You don’t give a flying f*** about people, let alone the ‘small people’ you condemn to short miserable lives defined by vicious but preventable diseases.

Seriously, I think autism may have been the origin of the changeling myth.

Uta Frith and Lorna Wing are on board with you there.

augustine troll @34:

“The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare.”

I suppose we should at least congratulate him for going out and finding a link to PubMed.

After that, forget about it. This is a typical quote-mine. The paper augustine cites is titled “Epidimiologic Basis for Eradication of Measles in 1967” in which the authors are arguing that it is now possible (and desireable) to eradicate measles in the United States (in 1966-67 – thanks to the efforts of people like augustine we are still dealing with measles in the US in 2010).

“Overall incidence rates were highest for Hispanics and blacks and lowest for non-Hispanic whites. Among children younger than 5 years of age, the incidence of measles among blacks and Hispanics was four to seven times higher than among non-Hispanic whites.”

Something to think about. Why? Does this apply to educated health conscious people of today or are all non-vaccinating people considered equal by science blogger standards?

Typical idiotic reasoning from augustine, I gather. And yet more quote-mining. The paragraph cited describes a measles surge in 1989-1991, caused by (wait for it)… low vaccination coverage (pp.7 of the article)!

What augustine fails to realize is that people in 1989-1991 were no less health-conscious than they are today. Indeed, I don’t think there was a lot of ‘new’ stuff to discover about measles in between 1989 and today.

The troll is also insinuating that us pro-vaccination folks are somehow racist. The evidence provided in the article suggests the opposite: that the anti-vaccination crowd is (unwittingly, I am sure) working to preserve white privilege, since the current US social stratification suggests that even today, blacks and Hispanics would probably bear the brunt of general measles epidemics if vaccination rates decline sufficiently.

The second article augustine cites quotes in its introduction:

Measles is an acute viral infectious disease. References to measles can be found from as early as the 7th century. The disease was described by the Persian physician Rhazes in the 10th century as “more dreaded than smallpox.”

[Skip paragraph describing overview of vaccine development]

Before a vaccine was available, infection with measles virus was nearly universal during childhood, and more than 90% of persons were immune by age 15 years. Measles is still a common and often fatal disease in developing countries. The World Health Organization estimates there were more than 20 million cases and 242,000 deaths from measles in 2006.

Oops, forgot my concluding remark, which was if we made the effort to eradicate measles worldwide, there would be zero cases and zero deaths – and we could discontinue the vaccine.

@ 49
“I can’t understand for the life of me why someone would believe someone stupid.”

But you people believe Orac all the time.

Amanda @49

Bravo. I agree with you 100%. My son was diagnosed with autism when he was three, shortly thereafter his father was found to have aspergers. We didn’t even know what autism was when he was diagnosed, but after discovering what to look for we realized he started showing signs at about nine months. His diagnosis made all the pieces fit, we knew he was a bit different but after the diagnosis we knew why. It was a relief for us, then we could learn how to help him fit into society.

I love my son very much, he is my life just as much as my other children. Although I have been called delusional for this view; I wouldn’t want him any other way.

“The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare.”

Fatality is rare? Compared to what, rabies? This is just wrong.

google capture:

Oxford textbook of medicine – Google Books Result
D. A. Warrell, Timothy M. Cox, John D. Firth – 2003 – Medical – 1085 pages
In the Third World, measles is severe and different: it kills between 3 and 15 per cent … within Africa, West Africa has the highest case-fatality rates. …
books.google.com/books?isbn=0198570147…

Measles is a serious disease and worth watching out for.

In the first world, 3 out of thousand patients will die. Complications are of course, more common and include things like blindness.

In the third world, it can be far more serious. Case fatality rates of 3 to 15% are not unknown.

With vaccination, this goes down to near zero. In fact, with adequate vaccination coverage, we could drive measles to extinction like we did with smallpox and have almost done with polio.

A modest proposal…

I think it’s about time dangerous idiots like Anne Dachel face consequences for what they write. Anyone who gleefully boasts that:

Our message has severely eroded confidence in the cornerstone of health care: THE CHILDHOOD VACCINE PROGRAM.

is, in my opinion, guilty of treason under Article III of the US Constitution by “giving aid or comfort” to our enemies. I would argue that the threat of transmissable disease is one of the greatest “enemies” of the United States, from the enormous health costs of any future pandemic to the threat to our military readiness (see the 1918 influenza epidemic).

I’m only 90% kidding about this. I’m so tired of idiots like jen and Sid posting their inane drivel, drivel that can kill people, that I really, really want to get under their skin. Shock them, just once, as they like to shock others with their over-the-top proclamations. Well, here you go:

jen, Sid, augie, I consider you traitors against the United States of America. You can throw in Jenny Mac and JB for good measure. I’d rather see Mary Podlesak receive appropriate treatment at a secure inpatient facility than go to jail, but that’s as far as my mercy is going to go.

So there!

Raven: “Measles is a serious disease and worth watching out for.

In the first world, 3 out of thousand patients will die. Complications are of course, more common and include things like blindness.”

Context my friend. Context.
————————————————————
Undernutrition as an underlying cause of child deaths associated
with diarrhea, pneumonia, malaria, and measles1–

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/1/193

well, Amen, I’m not even a U.S. citizen so I really can’t be a traitor. I’m Canadian (proud of our universal health care system-albeit it isn’t perfect). Actually, my friend was there in N.Y. yesterday having a doppler done on her neck to check for blockages re. M.S. If she has one she’s off to India for the liberation procedure. I say to her Godspeed. Nice try Raven, but North America isn’t a third world country and honestly the rate of deaths or serious disability would be extremely low. So much for your death VS autism gambit. Why are we promoting the silly rota crap stuff when it has known porcine virus contamination. You can’t even begin to defend that or if you do you are very silly. So terribly sorry, Callie, you prosaic wonder of wonders, if my prose is sloppy. You see I don’t have all day to write stuff on this science blog. I actually have children and a part time job.

8

well, Amen, I’m not even a U.S. citizen so I really can’t be a traitor. I’m Canadian

Okay, fine, you’re Canadian. I’m Canadian too, and I’d gladly consider you a traitor against Canada.

@T. Bruce McNeely

Okay, fine, you’re Canadian. I’m Canadian too, and I’d gladly consider you a traitor against Canada.

Seconded.

You don’t understand Jen, she is paid by the Big Pharma.
Some months ago I found Orac’s site when I was looking for information about the flu vaccine. I have not scientific background,I don’t know anything about vaccines or the inmunologic system but Jen conviced me. She convinced me that the anti-vax have not a single rational argument against vaccines. (Whith a little help of Sid Offit, The parents of Ben, and Augustine)

So Go Jen, keep doing your god job, the little children of the world will thank you.

Jen sez…

“I say to her Godspeed.”

Do all idiots say this? Andy Schafly from Conservapedia is fond of this inanity as well.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: