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Dr. Paul Offit on The Colbert Report

Paul Offit on the anti-vaccine movement:

The Colbert Report Mon – Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c
Paul Offit
www.colbertnation.com
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Looks like a win to me. Colbert appears to get it. I like how he doesn’t mention Andrew Wakefield’s name and he asks Dr. Offit a bunch of questions based on talking points the anti-vaccine movement likes to use to frighten parents.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

215 replies on “Dr. Paul Offit on The Colbert Report”

I’m so glad Colbert managed to get in the bit about “too many, too soon”. This is the one that always pops up when I discuss this with people. Even people whose kids are completely vaccinated worry about this, as I myself did many years ago when my daughter had to be revaccinated due to a lost shot record–I was terrified that she was going to get everything she was being vaxed for! I laugh now, but at the time I was very angry and upset. I shudder to think what my future may have held if the internet had been around then! Instead, happily, I went on to study science. The answer is simple enough, but one that just doesn’t readily occur to the “unscienced” (people who aren’t necessarily stupid, but don’t know a whole lot about science).

The hardcore fools will gnash their teeth and rage some more but this may reach some of the fence sitters. That is the best possible outcome I think.

I love how deft Colbert is, hidden in the comedic shell. I also have met Dr. Offitt and he is a very dynamic speaker. They did well, I just wish there was more time.

Colbert did a bang-up job. There are a few postings on the Colbert Report website…equally divided, from the pro and anti-vaccine crowd.

One “notable” poster wants Colbert to interview Wakefield to validate his research and to discuss the “conspiracy” of the Lancet and BMJ to discredit him.

I too, want Colbert to interview Wakefield…for entirely different reasons.

Another excellent performance by Dr. Offitt:-)

Beth “Bill Gates and David Oshinksy were on NPR’s Talk of the Nation on Monday to talk about polio eradication. They did a full shutdown of an anti-vax caller. http://www.npr.org/2011/01/31/133377748/bill-gates-goal-get-rid-of-polio-forever

I saw that earlier, it was an excellent put-down. It’s a pity that such moments are so rare on TV these days.

It’s not just anti-vaxers who distort vaccine history, animal rights activists also do their best to quote-mine and misrepresent http://speakingofresearch.com/2011/02/01/the-monkeys-who-gave-summer-back-to-the-children/

@lilady

I too, want Colbert to interview Wakefield…for entirely different reasons.

Not me. Wakefield is a petulant, self-centered child screaming “Look at me! Look at me!” The best thing to do, from a media standpoint, is ignore him. From a scientific/legal standpoint, on the other hand, he should be watched with an eagle eye.

That was a thing of beauty. I just wish Offit had pointed out that we’ve eradicated polio worldwide–thanks to the vaccine. But Colbert is a genius.

That was brilliant. For the 98% of the population that isn’t really up to snuff on the whole “vaccine debate”, that was basically it in a nutshell.

That was brilliant! There need to be lots of different ways to get the truth out there, not everyone wants to sit through documentaries or read books about this. It is incredibly valuable to have a neat little 5 minute video that people can watch to answer some of the most commonly voiced concerns about vaccines, that does it in an amusing and highly informative way. Bravo.

That was brilliant! There need to be lots of different ways to get the truth out there, not everyone wants to sit through documentaries or read books about this. It is incredibly valuable to have a neat little 5 minute video that people can watch to answer some of the most commonly voiced concerns about vaccines, that does it in an amusing and highly informative way. Bravo.

That was brilliant! There need to be lots of different ways to get the truth out there, not everyone wants to sit through documentaries or read books about this. It is incredibly valuable to have a neat little 5 minute video that people can watch to answer some of the most commonly voiced concerns about vaccines, that does it in an amusing and highly informative way. Bravo.

That was brilliant! There need to be lots of different ways to get the truth out there, not everyone wants to sit through documentaries or read books about this. It is incredibly valuable to have a neat little 5 minute video that people can watch to answer some of the most commonly voiced concerns about vaccines, that does it in an amusing and highly informative way. Bravo.

That was brilliant! There need to be lots of different ways to get the truth out there, not everyone wants to sit through documentaries or read books about this. It is incredibly valuable to have a neat little 5 minute video that people can watch to answer some of the most commonly voiced concerns about vaccines, that does it in an amusing and highly informative way. Bravo.

@Erika

I just wish Offit had pointed out that we’ve eradicated polio worldwide

But, we haven’t. There are still pockets of the disease, which is what Bill Gates was talking about on The Daily Show just before Colbert. Smallpox has been eradicated. Polio, not yet. We’re close, but it’s still a struggle.

That was a thing of beauty. I just wish Offit had pointed out that we’ve eradicated polio worldwide–thanks to the vaccine

You mean to say smallpox, right? Polio is still around.

“You see now, this isn’t fair. Because you’re playing the ‘Children Dying Card’. How am I supposed to fight that?”

Steven, I love you!

I just wish Offit had pointed out that we’ve eradicated polio worldwide–thanks to the vaccine.

As Todd said, we didn’t. We got very close, though. In fact, it was on the verge of eradication before an antivax movement intervened.

Which is an even better “teachable moment” about the dangers of antivaccination lunacy than the actual eradication would have been.

The “Polio Eradication Initiative” website has up-to-date information about the incidence of polio, areas in the world where it is still endemic and the resources devoted to polio eradication.

D’oh! Slip of the tongue (well, fingers). I meant smallpox, esp. when they were talking about the scar left by the vaccine.

Sorry about that. But you’re right–polio makes a good case study for the dangers of anti-vax conspiracies.

I would have liked to see Dr. Offit mention that Colbert’s kids don’t have the smallpox scar because it was been eradicated… by vaccines.

I would have liked to see Dr. Offit mention that Colbert’s kids don’t have the smallpox scar because it was been eradicated… by vaccines.

Yes, this.

Anyone notice AoA’s attempt to pre-emptively smear Dr. Offit, prior to his appearance … with four articles about him posted in short order

Is That Paul Offit with a Casserole?
Paul Offit and the “Original Sin” of Autism
Offit Cashes In: Closing the Books on the Vaccine Profits of a Merck-Made Millionaire
Counting Offit’s Millions: More on How Merck’s Rotateq Vaccine Made Paul Offit Wealthy

What is reassuring though is the article that occurs right before these four … the anouncement that “Autism One/Generation Rescue Conference Announces FREE Admission” for this summer in Chicago. I am hopeful that this is less some kind of altuistic behavior on the part of Autism One/Generation Rescue, and more a sign of decreasing interest in their pseudoscience and autism recovery biomed therapies.

I like Dr. Offit and I’m crazy about Colbert. It was entertaining light-hearted TV.

But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

Perhaps it’s just in a small percentage of children with mitochondrial dysfunction or perhaps in another small group of children. As we all know, no one on this website or elsewhere denies that vaccines have side effects.

The heated debate is ignited by those who claim proof of either causation or absolute lack thereof. Both are being disingenuous and unscientific.

Best,

Jay

Dr. Jay:

But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

Another unsupported claim from Dr. Jay, with extra hand waving thrown in for fun.

@Jay

vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

Um, no, vaccines are an improbable trigger. Based on all of the current evidence available, the likelihood that vaccines play a causative role in autism is really, really small. Now, if you have some, y’know, actual evidence to the contrary, please present it. You know that we will evaluate it fairly, Dr. Jay.

Not that you’ll actually respond to this request with anything of value, but I can always be surprised.

Dr. Offit is my new hero; I am almost done with the book and I am really impressed with the work. Just one more solid proof that science trumps superstition.

As for morons like Handley, so-called “Dr” Gordon…well, no amount of proof will sway them from the self-induced delusion that vaccines do anything other than save lives. Yes, some side effects may occur but these do not include autism, or retardation, or anything else.

A friend recently recounted a story to my wife. Her daughter had been a part of a mommy’s day out group. Well, yesterday she was informed that one child had died of meningitis. Guess what? I will bet we find out that the child who died was not vaccinated against Hib due to parental stupidity. Yes, the child might have contracted the disease from some other source, but with the prevalence of the anti-vaccine idiots I just suspect that this is a case of a misled parent making a tragic mistake.

We know vaccines work. We know that they have saved countless lives, have eradicated smallpox and almost eradicated polio. We know that without vaccines we would return to a world of iron lungs, whooping cough and other unnecessary maladies. Why can’t the antivax brigade see the scientific truth?

“You see now, this isn’t fair. Because you’re playing the ‘Children Dying Card’. How am I supposed to fight that?”

The same way the antivaxers insist that measles and mumps are no big deal.Perhaps Mr.Colbert hasn’t read enough of the screeds on the web from these people.It’s always kind of hard to tell what he does or doesn’t know.

This was a particularly good interview. Colbert did a masterful job of being the ‘straight man’ and pitching the anti-vax camp claims out for Dr. Offit to calmly debunk.

When they did the Rally to Restore Sanity And/Or Fear, I wrote an angry letter to The Daily Show asking why they let Ariana Huffington and Oprah anywhere near a rally to restore sanity, as they have insane stances on important health topics of today, including anti-vax. I was happy to see Gates talking about polio and Colbert with Offit – maybe they’re trying to atone? 😉

@Scott: Jay Gordon IS an MD, even if he is a bit(!) misguided about vaccines. Either just call him Jay, or Dr Gordon, but drop the scare quotes. It’s really demeaning to you when you use them inappropriately.

@Orac: Thanks for posting the video. I enjoyed watching it, and was worried that I would not be able to see it.

But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

What’s your evidence for this statement? I’m not asking for proof of a relationship, just some correlation or biological mechanism or anything else that would make it vaguely plausible that there’s more relationship between autism and vaccines than between autism and the phase of the moon or what the OB was wearing when he or she delivered the autistic kid.

We can learn a lot from Dr. Offit, Colbert, Stewart, Gates and their dialogues. There can be more discussion, less rancor and acivil exchange of information. There can even be humor.

Todd, there’s evidence in both directions but no conclusive proof in either.

Scott, a sad story but an (unconfirmed) aberration accompanied by speculation on your part.

Triskele, thank you.

Best,

Jay

“I like Dr. Offit and I’m crazy about Colbert. It was entertaining light-hearted TV.

But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

Perhaps it’s just in a small percentage of children with mitochondrial dysfunction or perhaps in another small group of children. As we all know, no one on this website or elsewhere denies that vaccines have side effects.

The heated debate is ignited by those who claim proof of either causation or absolute lack thereof. Both are being disingenuous and unscientific.”

Ah data taken straight from the New England Journal of Shit I made Up

@Jay

Todd, there’s evidence in both directions but no conclusive proof in either.

I didn’t ask for conclusive proof either way. I asked for evidence that vaccines were a “probable” (as in likely) trigger for autism.

Also, assuming that vaccination might trigger an autism like illness in children with mitochondrial dysfunction, what is the risk of infection triggering the same problem? I’m thinking of things like SSPE where the MMR vaccine can occasionally set off the disease (especially if given at less than 12 months) but measles has a much higher probability of triggering SSPE so that on the whole it’s safer to vaccinate even in individuals who may be vulnerable, for whatever reason, to SSPE.

Her daughter had been a part of a mommy’s day out group. Well, yesterday she was informed that one child had died of meningitis.

Are you sure the child died of Hib meningitis? If it was N. meningititis meningitis all those exposed need to get prophylactic antibiotics. Now!

“Todd, there’s evidence in both directions but no conclusive proof in either.”

What a shitty doctor you must be.

Well there’s evidence on both sides whether your illness is caused by Hobgoblins but no conclusive proof either way”

You know what we call something in REAL science that has no causal evidence demonstrated? Not likely.

But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.

Do you not see the contradiction here? I expect not. In any event, would you care to share your hypothesis with the class?

Perhaps it’s just in a small percentage of children with mitochondrial dysfunction or perhaps in another small group of children. As we all know, no one on this website or elsewhere denies that vaccines have side effects.

Yes, vaccines have serious adverse effects; that doesn’t mean that groups (and individuals, ahem) get to take liberties with what effects are.

The heated debate is ignited by those who claim proof of either causation or absolute lack thereof. Both are being disingenuous and unscientific.

Says you. You, just a couple of paragraphs up made a rather definitive statement of causation, with again, not a shred of evidence to support your claim. Sure you mentioned ‘unproved’ but you contradict yourself, yet again. Those who are making definitive claims of causation and aren’t happy with the current direction of research are free to conduct their own study. They can be as rigorous or sloppy as they choose. And bonus, they have you, Dr. Bob Sears and Eisenstein’s practise to pull a highly biased pool of study subjects from.

Todd, there’s evidence in both directions but no conclusive proof in either.

“Conclusive proof” is an impossibility in scientific matters, as you (should) well know. I’d ask what “evidence” you have in the direction of vaccines being a credible cause, but we all know that it consists solely of “because I say so.”

BTW, I used to post as “Scott” but the post upthread was not mine; there are enough such cases that I’m switching names.

How the hell does someone get through med school without apparently learning about Null Hypothesis?

“Dr. Jay” leads off with a swing and a miss…

“But, by the way, vaccines as they’re now manufactured and administered continue to be one of the unproven but probable environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism.”

And this hypothesis is supported by……?

As mentioned above, what is it about vaccines that makes them a more potent trigger of mitochondrial catastrophe than the circulating adenoviruses, herpesviruses, influenza viruses…etc.? All of these viruses trigger an apoptotic cascade in cells as well as causing high fevers and an orders-of-magnitude greater response in interferon and other inflammatory mediators.

Making stuff up is no substitute for real data (and knowledge).

Prometheus

Todd, there’s evidence in both directions but no conclusive proof in either

So, what’s some of the evidence for vaccines triggering autism? I searched medline, briefly, and found a bit against. For example, this article which found a possible correlation between fever and autistic regression in patients with mitochondrial disease, but no correlation with vaccination in the absence of fever.

Er, the use of “Dr” relating to Gordon was done on purpose as I think anyone who makes the claims that he does without a single shred of scientific cannot be referred to as a doctor of medicine. Promoting the idea that vaccines cause autism and holding a medical license are, in my mind, mutually exclusive and if you do so you ought to lose the medical license.

I find it interesting that Gordon has yet to direct us to any conclusive proof of his hypothesis.

As for the meningitis story, I was rather clear on the fact that I was not 100% sure what happened save the fact that the child died of meningitis. I clearly stated that was not sure if it was due to a failure to vaccinate the child. I will find out for sure. What I do know is that the Missouri health department is involved and that all the kids at that group have been contacted and are receiving treatment (I assume preventative).

What I know is this- there is NO EVIDENCE that vaccines cause autism and until such evidence is presenting and confirmed as scientifically accurate to mention anything suggesting a correlation is irresponsible. And stupid.

environmental triggers to the genetic predisposition to autism

Well, Dr. Gordon, this is interesting. So you know how to identify the specific genetic predisposition to autism? Because this evidence you speak of, pertaining to environmental triggers, MUST begin with a reliable genetic screen for predisposition. You can’t obtain any meaningful evidence potential triggers in at-risk subpopulations unless you can identify a priori those sub-populations at risk. So, since you claim such evidence, you MUST have a screening test, one that can tell us which children are at risk.

This is big news, Dr. Gordon. This screening test will be able to tell us which small proportion of children are at risk, who should not have the vaccines, and even more importantly, tell us which of the vast majority of children for whom it will be absolutely safe to have their vaccines.

So show the world your data, Dr. Gordon. This is a major discovery you are claiming, one that would immeasurably improve the lives of millions of children, and earn you many accolades, if true.

So what are you waiting for? Show the data.

Could someone please explian what journalist Lynn McTaggart is talking about here: “Despite being exhaustively peer-reviewed and accepted for publication, Wakefield’s monkey study was subsequently pulled as ‘not suitable’ for publication after the GMC delivered its verdict. The pulling of the study ultimately became the centrepiece of our story. The more that Bryan dug into this issue, the more layers of deceit he uncovered in the form of censorship, data-massaging and burying of damning data.”

I used to subscribe to McTaggart’s emails for her “intention project” which mysteriously vanished without any explanation a couple of years ago. Then just recently started getting emails in a completely different format called “What Doctors Won’t Tell You” (which will tell you how far I’ve come as far as my opinions on alternative medicine!)
http://community.wddty.com/blogs/lynnemctaggart/archive/2010/03/29/Monkeying-with-the-truth—.aspx

I haven’t been following this as closely as most people here, so I apologize for not being up on everything regarding this, but can this monkey study be debunked?

Dr. Offit was great on the Colbert Report, I know that Wakefied’s ‘research’ on kids is complete BS, but what is this about censorship, burying data and the like regarding his monkey study? More BS?

It’s always interesting seeing the number of comments following an Orac piece suddenly jump. What example of numbnuttery has turned up to stimulate responses?

Why, hello Jay.

Jay: “I like Dr. Offit”
“We can learn a lot from Dr. Offit, Colbert, Stewart, Gates and their dialogues. There can be more discussion, less rancor and a civil exchange of information.”

Here’s a “civil” Jay Gordon slamming Paul Offit on Twitter:

“Paul’s not the devil some say he is but he doesn’t act like a scientist much of the time.”

Apparently Jay has a special personal version of “civility” – as long as he doesn’t use curse words he can impugn the professionalism of a true scientist for utilizing evidence over anecdotes, or insinuate that commenters on RI who criticize Jay’s antivax views are on the take from Big Pharma.

What a civil fellow. Such a nice guy.

Jay: “The heated debate is ignited by those who claim proof of either causation or absolute lack thereof. Both are being disingenuous and unscientific.”

How “unscientific”, to actually require evidence (which is lacking) of a vaccine-autism connection before going on an antivax crusade and putting large numbers of children at risk!

Jay – you really, really should avoid calling anyone “unscientific”. You’ve demonstrated repeatedly that you have no understanding of the meaning of the word.

Typo in your post Jay: it should read

The heated debate is ignited by people like me because we profit from it and don’t want to take the time to understand the studies. We are being disingenuous and unscientific.

Thank you, Chris. An example of the comments on the McTaggart link: “Wakefield’s findings have never been refuted. He is themodern Galileo.” Just amazing.

Comments are now disabled.

Your welcome, GM. Yeah, the cries that Wakefield has not been refuted is very familiar, and was wrong starting in 1999 (starting with Brent Taylor, who was at the same place!… and on and on).

Not that it matters in any way other than an “OMG, I can’t believe I’ve never heard that word said aloud in my life, that alone is amazing, that I’ve only ever read this word, never heard anyone actually say it,” but is whooping usually pronounced “hooping”? Always thought it was like, “whoomp, there it is” from the song, only w/o the M.

Scott said:

Er, the use of “Dr” relating to Gordon was done on purpose as I think anyone who makes the claims that he does without a single shred of scientific cannot be referred to as a doctor of medicine.

I think you’re going to have to widen the net there, Scott. Dr. Gupta, Dr. Oz, Dr. Sears, Dr. Gordon, Dr. Egnor. They’re all really doctors, and they’re all really unscientific. And there are probably hundreds more like them. I think the take-home message is that a medical degree in no way guarantees the development or utilization of critical thinking skills or an understanding of science.

Now, when you discuss this topic with your pediatrician, he or she will clobber my ideas and me. So be it. I have watched children getting or not getting vaccines for thirty years. I won’t publish my data because I have none suitable for “peer review.” I can tell you that my very strong impression is that children with the fewest vaccines, or no vaccines at all, get sick less frequently and are healthier in general. I truly believe they also develop less autism and other “persistent developmental delays

@ moderation: Why yes,I did! Over the past several weeks, we’ve witnessed revelations about Wakefield, releases of books by Offit and Mnookin that challenge anti-vax views, and now Dr. Offit himself speaks out in interviews! AoA, whose *raison d’etre* is anti-vaccination, as well as sympathetic altmed sites ( NaturalNews; Gary Null’s various endeavors) have seen a flurry of activity( articles and interviews) supportive of Wakefield and attacking Brian Deer and Dr. Offit.

They sound rather desperate to me! Perhaps they have a sneaking suspicion that their base is dwindling.

I think that the anti-vaxxers are attempting to

Whether the pushback

Well Denise, I wouldn’t get your hopes up too much because if only a couple people (Herr doktor and LW) can handle some critical immunological discussion with people like PassionlessDrone and Skeptiquette, then I’m pretty sure sure it’s indicative of why your side is in trouble. Oh yeah, that, and stuff like the narcolepsy problems in Finland etc.

@”Sid” Gordon:

Okay, from the name it’s obviously some sort of troll, but I don’t get the point.

@Jay Gordon (the real one):

Perhaps it’s just in a small percentage of children with mitochondrial dysfunction or perhaps in another small group of children.

If you’re going to hypothesize a susceptibility subgroup, just leave it at that rather than guessing at a possible mechanism that makes no sense. (Unless you can make it make sense by proposing how there can be different qualities of oxidative stress, and that the oxidative stress caused by vaccines has qualitatively different than that caused by wild-type infections).

Also, about you doubting that Wakefield would commit fraud, and thinking that he’s an honest person: is this just because that’s your default assumption (null hypothesis) about any given individual, and the evidence against him just isn’t good enough, or is there anything more? If there is anything more, what is it? You’re a good judge of character, you met him in person, and he just doesn’t strike you as the sort of person who’d do that?

Oh, and I really liked that The Daily Show/The Colbert Report had back-to-back guests that talked up the importance of vaccines, and addressed the reasons people don’t get them, but from completely different angles.

Well Denise, I wouldn’t get your hopes up too much because if only a couple people (Herr doktor and LW) can handle some critical immunological discussion with people like PassionlessDrone and Skeptiquette, then I’m pretty sure sure it’s indicative of why your side is in trouble. Oh yeah, that, and stuff like the narcolepsy problems in Finland etc.

There you go again Jen, cocksure and foolish. No, a number of us have had numerous conversations with pD and Skeptiquette. Why the competition? ‘Your side’? In trouble? I wouldn’t expect anything less from ‘your side’, to be that delusional, that is. And invoking some kind of imagined defeat, along with unsubstantiated narcolepsy-vaccine claims, is pretty delusional.

You may wish to confront the fact that your luminaries are no longer media darlings and called in to provide false balance. Your scientists are frauds and charlatans and the best of the best autism test cases failed to provide even a feather’s weight of evidence over the (comparably) low standards in vaccine court. If you wish to put it into terms of defeat and victory, then I think you are mistaken on who is feeling defeated.

And when did the immunocompromised become my responsibility?

So nice of you to admit you only care about yourself here.

Sid, let me tell you a story.

A co-worker of mine had a daughter with cystic fibrosis. You know what that is? Lung disease, very bad if they get sick. She was in waiting to get a flu shot, but couldn’t get one right away due to her compromised immune system making her get sick.

The flu killed her before she could get the shot. She was only 24 years old.

Tell her mother to her face that her daughter doesn’t matter as long as you do what you please.

Science Mommy:

Your scientists are frauds and charlatans and the best of the best autism test cases failed to provide even a feather’s weight of evidence over the (comparably) low standards in vaccine court. If you wish to put it into terms of defeat and victory, then I think you are mistaken on who is feeling defeated.

Poor, poor Science mommy. Long before Jenny McCarthy. Long before Wakefield or Fisher there were people questioning the “wisdom” of vaccination. Why because they saw it not work back then and they saw it kill people way back then. But even back then the crusted and scraped calf pus poured into tubes and sold as a vaccine was called “scientific”.

But scientific doctors killed even back then in the name of science and the name of the amorphous masses. To the ideologists the ends justify the means. To the dead…they were a sacrifice to science mommy and her professors god.

Bow down. Bow down. Bow down to the god of the sciencebloggers. The god is the human brain. But it’s not every human brain. This god only serves the intellectual elite. And the sacrifice is its’ inferiors.

Some things never change.

“Your side” has been killing people since the small pox vaccine. As long as you don’t give people a choice and you deceive them you’ll never get rid of the people who question scientific medicine and it’s last sacred cow.

“Your side” has been killing people since the small pox vaccine. As long as you don’t give people a choice and you deceive them you’ll never get rid of the people who question scientific medicine and it’s last sacred cow.

Then “your side”, by default would be the pro-disease side and diseases have been doing what since time immemorial? Nothing changes the fact that the bottom-feeders of anti-vaccinistas are made up of frauds, mockeries of science and scientific illiterates. What a distinguished group you have aligned yourself with Augie.

Tell her mother to her face that her daughter doesn’t matter as long as you do what you please.

You have a vivid imagination. Where did I say this person didn’t matter. I simply enquired as to why I’m responsible to expose a child to a series of painful and potentially risky unwanted medical treatments in order to ensure that an immunocompromised individual is never exposed to an infectious agent. especially when my child is exceedingly unlikely to encounter this person – and even more unlikely do do so while infected.

@augustine:

Long before Wakefield or Fisher there were people questioning the “wisdom” of vaccination. Why because they saw it not work back then and they saw it kill people way back then.

“Your side” has been killing people since the small pox vaccine.

So you’re saying that the smallpox vaccine was ineffective, or even worse than ineffective? I thought you’d said before that it had at least some effectiveness.

especially when my child is exceedingly unlikely to encounter this person – and even more unlikely do do so while infected.

How do you know that? The immunocompromised don’t wear giant signs saying they are such.

augustine, I can’t beleive you were thoughtless enough to refer to smallpox in your rant. Then again, I can believe it. You chose a disease that has been eliminated thanks to immunisation. Bravo, smart arse.

series of painful and potentially risky unwanted medical treatments

Painful???? What fantasy world are you living in. I used to get jabbed in the arm with a needle on a weekly basis. It was always an annoying time sink and there was always a risk that I would be sent to the hospital but ehhh…. I really couldn’t complain.

I’m only going by what I hear on reputable, reliable sites such as Science Based Medicine

As much as I support vaccines, I see the short term consequences. Vaccines can be painful. Kids don’t like them, and parents don’t like seeing their children suffer.

Adam – I’d rather get a vaccination than a blood draw. But since I’m a bad stick those usually turn me into a human pincushion as they try to find a usable vein.

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