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The AAP protests the anti-vaccine ads being aired by CBS

Excellent! It’s about time the bigger guns started getting involved. Remember the anti-vaccine ads being run on the big CBS JumboTron in Times Square? Well, the American Academy of Pediatrics has finally weighted in to complaint. Here’s the letter:

April 13, 2011

Mr. Wally Kelly
Chairman and CEO
CBS Outdoor
405 Lexington Ave., 14th floor
New York, NY 10174

Dear Mr. Kelly,

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) objects to the paid advertisement/public service message from the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) being shown throughout the month of April on the CBS JumboTron in Times Square, New York. The AAP and many other child health organizations have worked hard to protect children and their families from unfounded and unscientific misinformation regarding vaccine safety. Vaccines are safe.

By providing advertising space to an organization like the NVIC, which opposes the nation’s recommended childhood immunization schedule and promotes the unscientific practice of delaying or skipping vaccines altogether, you are putting the lives of children at risk, leaving them unprotected from vaccine-preventable diseases. Diseases like measles and pertussis (whooping cough) can have serious consequences, including seizures, brain damage and even death. From January 1 through December 31, 2010, 9,477 cases of pertussis (including ten infant deaths) were reported throughout California. This is the most cases reported in 65 years there.

The AAP’s 60,000 member pediatricians urge you to remove these harmful messages, which fail to inform the public about the safety of life-saving vaccines. Please do your part to help reassure parents that vaccinating their children on schedule is the best way to protect them from deadly diseases.

Sincerely,

O. Marion Burton, MD, FAAP
President

Pour it on, people Pour it on.

Everyone has the right to free speech, but the there is no inherent right to blast that free speech every hour over a huge JumboTron. By accepting the NVIC/Mercola ads, CBS exhibited extreme corporate irresponsibility. Although the ads themselves don’t push pseudoscience (at around 15 seconds, they’re too short), they do urge viewers to go to the NVIC website to “get informed” about the “risks” of vaccination. Since the NVIC is irredeemably anti-vaccine, the information there is misleading, pseudoscientific, and anti-vaccine to the core. Don’t believe me? Just type “NVIC” into the search blog of this blog. Or type “Mercola and vaccine.” Then read.

In the meantime, let’s make our right to free speech heard. Tell CBS that its irresponsibility is not going unnoticed, that it’s permitting its JumboTron to be used in the service of the ploy of telling parents to “know the risks” and then referring them to websites that exaggerate the risks beyond all evidence. It’s a perfect example of promoting misinformed consent, because the ads refer parents to sites full of anti-vaccine propaganda. What CBS is doing is bad for children, bad for herd immunity, and bad for public health.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

123 replies on “The AAP protests the anti-vaccine ads being aired by CBS”

As a member of the AAP I am tempted to say, to little to late. Why is the AAP so late to the game? Why won’t they call their own out for the same types of statements from the likes of Dr. Bob Sears and Dr. Jay Gordon, as well as their own CAM section? I hope I am wrong and this is the first step toward a more aggressive and enlightened approach from the AAP.

Aww, the American Association of Vaccination, I mean, Pediatrics is worried about their little meal ticket. As I said before such paranoia simply reveals the what a house of straw the vaccine program is. As I advised one of your acolytes, why don’t you, and the AAP, just hold your breath till CBS takes down the ad

Aww, the American Association of Vaccination, I mean, Pediatrics is worried about their little meal ticket. As I said before such paranoia simply reveals the what a house of straw the vaccine program is. As I advised one of your acolytes, why don’t you, and the AAP, just hold your breath till CBS takes down the ad

“..there is no inherent right to blast that free speech every hour..”. Sadly it seems there is.
This is not a pedantic case in point. I often lament the freedoms of stupid people that our democratic, capitalist systems allow (Don Trump anyone?). But I wouldn’t have it any other way either. When you look at the alternatives it’s hard to see a better strategy to counter this situation other than the way the AAP now is. Lets stay tuned. My cynical bet is money speaks louder than ethics.

Nice letter, but way too late in the game. The AAP should be looking into their own re-certification processes. Their members must know of Dr. Jay Gordon’s notoriety and his website, which tarnishes the reputation of the Academy.

CBS Outdoor wants to wait it out and hope that it will be forgotten, a sound decision looking at the attainments of their “executive” staff in the billboard trade. The only thing that’s going to draw these nitwits out is attention by the press.

“Vaccines are safe.” NO THEY AREN’T.
“Diseases like measles and pertussis (whooping cough) can have serious consequences, including seizures, brain damage and even death.” SO DO VACCINES.

Would the APA be happier if that jumbo tron told people to go to the CDC website and research polio vaccine/cancer connection (aka. SV-40). Then lookup the FDA transcripts on porcine circovirus in P.(r)Offit’s Rotovax?
It’s not like their spreading fear, or even the real harsh government substantiated truth. All that screen is saying is “You have a right to decide, and you should research it for yourself.” I think the public deserves better.
Personally I think it should say, “In the past, under the guise of vaccination your government ‘accidentally’ injected millions with a monkey virus (SV40) known to cause cancer. They have prevented widespread knowledge of this through control of the media, but their admission can be found on the CDC website. Furthermore the recently introduced Rotavirus vaccine was also ‘accidentally’ contaminated with a pig virus that many researchers believe may cause early sterility. Your government, having been made aware of the issue, has decided that considering no conclusive evidence exists on (the safety or danger of) introducing this virus into the human population, that they will simply give your children the vaccine and see what happens. Your children have become human test subjects in this governments ‘accidental’ experiment. Vaccine safety and screening is currently not sufficient to prevent such ‘accidental contaminations’. If government regulation provided for your children’s safety before financial concerns, this vaccine would have been recalled immediately. Proof of this allegation can be found on the FDA’s website in their very own transcription logs.”
So let them run the ad. It’s harmless. Everyone likely to see it is sleepwalking anyway. It’s not like they are actually trying to wake or inform the general public. If that was the goal they’d just hire the space and print in big bold letters “SV40 IS ANOTHER VIRUS THAT CAUSES CANCER, AND IS TRANSMITTED IN SPERM!” DO YOU OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE HAVE SV40? IT ISN’T HPV AND THAT VACCINE WON’T PROTECT YOU AGAINST SV40. VISIT THE CDC WEBSITE TODAY AND LEARN MORE ABOUT SV40!”

What’s bad for public health, is good for America.

That’s a keeper, Sid. You should have it tattooed on your girlfriend’s dong.

michele perhaps you would now like to educate us on the risks of a reaction to MMR or Pertussis vaccination versus the risk of contracting the diseases, and the potential side effects? Warning, do not quote Dr Jay or Jenny.

@michele

Taking the intellectually dishonest route, eh?

Of course vaccines have risks. They list the risks of them when you get vaccinated.

It’s just that the risks of being vaccinated are a whole lot less that the risks of getting the disease.

@Chris Edwards

Citation please.

*AAP, *they’re, You get the idea. Please pardon the typos/ neurological switches. I type faster then I think when I’m annoyed. Ignorance, oppression, failure of informed consent, and potential loss of freedom of speech tend to annoy me.
Before anyone says it. This is like yelling “fire” in a movie theater. That, would be chanting SV40, carrying stuffed monkeys and signs that read “Do you or someone you love have cancer?” in front of the Jumbo tron. I wonder if I can get a permit. Would anyone care to join me?

michele:

“Diseases like measles and pertussis (whooping cough) can have serious consequences, including seizures, brain damage and even death.” SO DO VACCINES.

Citation please?

Chris Edwards:

Would the APA be happier if that jumbo tron told people to go to the CDC website and research polio vaccine/cancer connection (aka. SV-40).

Please tell us which of the present pediatric vaccines contain SV-40. Remember to show your homework.

Also provide any real scientific evidence that the vaccines cause more harm than the diseases.

*AAP, *they’re, You get the idea. Please pardon the typos/ neurological switches. I type faster then I think when I’m annoyed. Ignorance, oppression, failure of informed consent, and potential loss of freedom of speech tend to annoy me.
Before anyone says it. This is not like “yelling fire in a movie theater”. That, would be chanting SV40, carrying stuffed monkeys and signs that read “Do you or someone you love have cancer?” in front of the Jumbo tron. I wonder if I can get a permit. Would anyone care to join me?

I love the altie loons right now because they make feel like I’m such a cool person eh, taking vaccinations and doesn’t afraid of anything. I just had 3 vaccinations in the last week. FOR SCIENCE!!! Tee hee hee!

(PS: I don’t really love them. “Despise” is a more accurate term.)

Oh please pretend to be uninformed for the sake of argument. No current vaccine contain SV40, it was in the old polio vaccine. Not that I imagine the time line matters much to the cancer patients who got that one as children.
However the same government process that infected millions with a carcinogenic virus is now infecting children(knowingly and willingly) with porcine circovirus which was found to be contaminating the current rotavirus vaccine. The proof for this is in the FDA transcripts.
So 50 years later, your government inoculation program is yes, still failing to put the safety of children before the cost of the drug.
All this sign wants to say is think and decide…

I see that the usual cranks (Sid Offal) and pseudo-scientists re busy. Citations don’t have to be given IF YOUR RANT IS ALL CAPITALIZED!!!!! eh, Chris Edwards.

Michelle, provide us with risk versus benefit statistics regarding “natural” acquiring of immunity or the immunity acquired through immunizations. (Hint) You might want to check out the CDC Pink Book, MMWR, Immunize.org or Immunization Action Coalition websites.

Chris Edwards:

That, would be chanting SV40,

Again, you are asked which vaccines have contained that in the last forty years. Provide the evidence, and they must be those we can find in a local medical school library. Cutting and pasting from your favorite website is not allowed.

Please dont threaten the income stream, the mutual back scratching, or threaten the lofty science of the established boys! NO! not the jumbotron, dont worry there will be plenty of lemming that buy into the vaccine myth.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fda.gov%2FAdvisoryCommittees%2FCommitteesMeetingMaterials%2FBloodVaccinesandOtherBiologics%2FVaccinesandRelatedBiologicalProductsAdvisoryCommittee%2Fucm197728.htm&h=8252b
You just made me go through weeks worth of feed, because If I couldn’t get the FDA link, as opposed to the saved document. You’d call me a liar or a fool, so here it is…
URL link if it’ll work, it’s service listed… If it doesn’t work use the link at the top of this page and (Their caps not mine v)
“VACCINES AND RELATED BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS ADVISORY COMMITTEE
May 7, 2010
Hilton Hotel
Gaithersburg, Maryland”
Page 6.5 through 7
Agenda Item: FDA Introduction/Presentation of
Issues for Discussion
DR. BAYLOR: Good morning. I am going to provide a
background for today’s meeting and set the stage for the day.
In February of this year, GSK Biologicals was
informed by an independent investigator from the University
of California-San Francisco that DNA sequences originating
from porcine circovirus were detected in two batches of
Rotarix, which is a live attenuated rotavirus vaccine. 7
GSK initiated experiments to confirm these results,
and conduct further investigations. Their tests confirmed
the presence of PCV1 DNA in Rotarix in the intermediates, in
the production process, the working cell bank, the viral
seeds from which the vaccine was derived, as well as the
final container.
GSK informed the Food and Drug Administration of
the detection of PCV1 DNA fragments in Rotarix. The Food and
Drug Administration began its own internal examination and
confirmed that the presence of DNA from PCV1 was in Rotarix
vaccine.
On March 22 of this year, the FDA recommended that
clinicians temporarily suspend the use of Rotarix vaccine
while the agency gathered additional information as a
precautionary measure.
“Although testing by the investigators at the
University of California-San Francisco did not find PCV1 DNA
sequences in Merck’s rotavirus vaccine RotaTeq, the Food and
Drug Administration embarked on testing RotaTeq, and
recommended Merck do the same. Recently the FDA received
information from Merck that preliminary studies identified
fragments of DNA from porcine circovirus types 1 and 2, PCV1
and PCV2, in RotaTeq vaccine.”

If it would make this easier I can mail you the transcript. Your site seems to have an extremely slow and awful delay on posting.

Zounds, the parallels between antivax-heroes and god-bots is astounding: the refusal to name *credible* sources for their assertions, the fingers-in-ears adherence to prescribed talking points, the frequent copy/pasting from authoritative websites, the worship of cult figures who they know will save them, the scientific conspiracy theories, the giving of their money & allegiance to known charlatans, the blind faith that only they and their prophets hold the Truth, the mistaken notion that because people think they’re idiots they must be right and that they will have the last laugh at some indeterminate point in the future. Hell, both varieties of hysterical paranoid dogmatist even employ CAPS LOCK FURY (+0 Damage, -50 Credibility and +3D20 lulz) in a similar fashion, usually in place of actually supporting their ejaculations with reliable evidence.

Perhaps someone, somewhere, is fermenting two kinds of ignoramus in the same factory and cross-contaminating the vats.

Well we’d chant Porcine Circovirus, but it just doesn’t have the same ring, I think Paul Offit would pay to have us shot, and it doesn’t have the same your government has failed you for fifty years Push behind it. Hey did you slow the posting down so you can catch up on all the info us crazy people post? Maybe there’s hope for you yet.
http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/BloodVaccinesandOtherBiologics/VaccinesandRelatedBiologicalProductsAdvisoryCommittee/ucm211828.htm
May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting Presentations

May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting Presentations
May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting Presentation: CBER Assessment of Porcine Circovirus in Vaccines (PPT – 1471KB)
Philip R. Krause, M.D.
May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting: Detection of Porcine circovirus (PCV) and PCV DNA Sequences in U.S. Licensed Rotavirus Vaccines and the Use of Emerging Analytical Technologies for the Detection of Adventitious Agents in Vaccines (PPT – 137KB)
Norman W. Baylor, PhD
May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee: Monitoring Safety of Rotavirus Vaccines (PPT – 173KB)
David Martin, MD, MPH
May 7, 2010: Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting FDA’s Approach to Adventitious-Agent Testing of Cell Substrates and Viral Vaccines: Traditional and Novel Methods (PPT – 350KB)
Keith Peden

Just read those and get back to me eh? Maybe worry if you inadvertently sterilized yourself or your children with a pig virus just to avoid a case of the runs…

Wolf Herpestein:

vaccine myth.

You will need to explain that more fully. For one thing you will have to explain what happened to smallpox. For the love of mud, in the age of PCR do not try to say it was another disease that has been renamed!

Please explain why measles incidence dropped by 90% in the USA between 1960 and 1970. Do try to be more creative than previous attempts.

Also, how many MMR vaccines (which covers three diseases) could have the fees of eight children being hospitalized in Minneapolis with measles paid for? Or how many DTaP or Tdap vaccines could be bought for the cost for hospital stays and funerals of ten babies who died of pertussis last year in California?

I am baffled that the notion of preventative medicine being some a big money maker. Mr. Herpestein, do you gain income from as a hospital supplier, or as a provider of child sized coffins? Come on, be honest. Those ventilators are not cheap!

Sooooo. You gonna post them? Starting to make me happy here. Making me think I actually made you look it up instead of just yelling “looney ass religious zealot” BTW I’m MENSA certified homegrown USA Humanist! Ah well, you have my email.
Look it up, I have a handful of relevant docs I saved to my external, just in case the government takes them down… I also have access to a pretty large knowledge base. Hey, have you ever even looked at PubMed? I hope you stopped posting me because I made you think and your researching your answers, Not just because you are an ostrich, That’s a pretty sad stance for a man of science.
Let me know if you want to know more.

@24 – Chris

I’m also baffled by this notion of vaccines & preventatives being a huge money-spinner. Surely just letting people get sick would make more money for doctors and hospitals. Surely attempting to prevent people from becoming ill and then needing further treatment is working against the alleged profit motive?

Or am I being way too naive and is the conspiracy a lot deeper and baroque than that? Do doctors/Big Pharma want to sicken people with the vaccines so they’ll get even more exotic diseases requiring vastly more expensive treatment? How much worse than preventable diseases like smallpox, pertussis, polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, diptheria, influenza, hepatitis et al can it get? Do doctors intentionally want kids to get sicker than that – sicker than fucking pertussis?? Do doctors WANT kids to “get” autism? Are people like Mike Adams and Joe Mercola actually the only doctors in the universe who understand how insidious modern medicine really is? Are all the advances in preventative medicine just a scam? Are most of the practising physicians in the world in league with drug companies to just fuck us all for money – are no doctors except the aforementioned alties with vested interests (note how much expensive alternative shit they’re selling on their own websites) actually in medicine to help people?

Someone really needs to explain this to me, as from where I stand it really does smell like an uninformed, misinformed paranoid conspiracy theory.

Oh insanity, this man posts one comment out of every four. I just gave him FDA and CDC links and this is what he posts, The hey are you awake letter.

Chris Edwards:

I have a handful of relevant docs I saved to my external, just in case the government takes them down… I also have access to a pretty large knowledge base.

All you need to do is post the publicly available documentation to your claims. The cites on PubMed are sufficient.

Again, which vaccines used in the last forty years contained SV-40.

Now please explain this jumble of words:

I hope you stopped posting me because I made you think and your researching your answers,

WTF? What does “you stopped posting me” mean? Who is the “you” that is referenced? And, as far as research, the rule is that if you make a claim you provide the evidence. No excuses. Failure to provide actual evidence for your claims will show that you have none (well, that would be kind of obvious).

It means I sent four other comments before the sysop posted my fifth. Of course they want to censor times square. They are obviously censoring this conversation. Information control? That’s how you justify feeing the youth of America porcine circovirus. I already answered the SV40 question. I was calling attention to the current similarity between then and NOW

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/BloodVaccinesandOtherBiologics/VaccinesandRelatedBiologicalProductsAdvisoryCommittee/UCM215266.pdf
DR. BAYLOR: Good morning. I am going to provide a background for today’s meeting and set the stage for the day.
In February of this year, GSK Biologicals was informed by an independent investigator from the University of California-San Francisco that DNA sequences originating from porcine circovirus were detected in two batches of Rotarix, which is a live attenuated rotavirus vaccine.
7
GSK initiated experiments to confirm these results, and conduct further investigations. Their tests confirmed the presence of PCV1 DNA in Rotarix in the intermediates, in the production process, the working cell bank, the viral seeds from which the vaccine was derived, as well as the final container.

Taking the intellectually dishonest route, eh? “Of course vaccines have risks. They list the risks of them when you get vaccinated. It’s just that the risks of being vaccinated are a whole lot less that the risks of getting the disease.”
You are very very wrong, and they wouldn’t be burying it this deep if you weren’t
“They list the risks of them when you get vaccinated.”
Maine actually just decided to make sure you don’t know those risks (or ingredients), Now You are trying to stop people from informing NYC.
Take a child to a US pediatrician. Watch how it plays out in comparison to how you believe it should. No, they do not list the risks. If you ask about risks or ingredients your pediatrician will get mad, and scary, and begin yelling at and go as far berating a new mother clutching her two week old baby. You can not make them provide you with the package insert, You cannot possibly receive fair advice. You receive the standard AAP, AMA speech regardless of your questions or fears. They are not listening to the mothers.
If you disagree with them they will instantly “fire” you and leave you panicked, holding an insurance card and a newborn. Call your insurance fast, otherwise they’ll call CPC and you’ll have to deal with that mess.
Quote: “It’s just that the risks of being vaccinated are a whole lot less that the risks of getting the disease.” For a STD?? Oh no! They absolutely are not. They are vaccinating my child against diseases that are of no risk to her at all.
Hep B is a sexually transmitted disease that also occurs in IV drug users. NJ injects, and I might be wrong but I believe the CDC recommends, the injection of all newborns within 48 hours of birth. The shot only lasts 10 years, and the mothers are tested again at birth (Really, Actually drawing blood while they sew you back up). So my newborn has no risk from me, will not be injecting drugs, or having sex before she’s 10(!) Why are you mandating that she be injected with such an irrelevant vaccine before she has a chance to develop properly; While we have no real information or studies on the current recommended vaccine schedule?
The CDC will admit that they have never conducted studies on the current vaccination load. Vaccines are tested for individual safety, not in the variety and frequency they are given. Anyone here on the scienceblog should know what chemical cocktails are, or why this information applies to the question at hand? Show of hands! 🙂
Don’t defend it because it’s science. Or because it’s the accepted ideology. Defend it because you are our smartest minds, you have researched it, and decided that it is (or isn’t) right.

Next, Why does my daughter need a Rubella vaccination before puberty? My understanding is that Rubella is only harmful to developing fetuses? Not two year old girls.
If you feel its a matter of “Herd Immunity” and my daughter is somehow required to protect some unknown mysterious pregnant woman and her child, I have only one thing to say to you. “Entitled to life, liberty…” So by forcing my child to carry any (as in .01%) risk for a vaccine which does not directly effect her health in any way you are removing her of her constitutional rights. Children have a right to life too. She should never have to endure risk to preserve the herd unless she personally has chosen said risk. I would never choose it for her.
I’m very tired, I think it’s best if I come back tomorrow, and yell at you some more 😉

It’s allowed if my favorite website is the FDA! Otherwise, you might need to read instead of just chant and repeat…

It means I sent four other comments before the sysop posted my fifth. Of course they want to censor times square. They are obviously censoring this conversation.

Bit paranoid, are we? Scienceblogs has an automatic spam filter; comments with too many links are held up, regardless of where those links go.

Chris,

that was a very interesting link you finally posted. It is also clear that you didnt read it. If you had you would have discovered:

1) PCV1 has no known effect on humans
2) the vaccine was suspended in the US by the FDA, but was distributed in many other countries with no known extra side effects
3) rotavirus is a deadly disease and was responsible for great suffering until the vaccination came out
4) the societal improvements, both in terms of health, mortality and cost from the vaccine have been measured and show a very good response (read DR. PARASHAR’s part)
5) the safety net for catching things like this is quite vast, which is why we are even discussing this in the first place.

Telling people you are a MENSA is truly points against you. From my experience, MENSA folks are self congratulatory people who score well on specific tests and are kookoo bananas when it comes to reality based assessments, like whether or not we are being visited by UFOs, big foot being in their back yards, a vast set of conspiracy theories, and of course whether or not the vaccination program is designed to turn the American population in acquiescing zombies.

They are obviously censoring this conversation. Information control? That’s how you justify feeing the youth of America porcine circovirus.

To say nothing of what they are doing to the soil.
Chris Edward’s comments need more fishbarrel hatstand.

It means I sent four other comments before the sysop posted my fifth. Of course they want to censor times square. They are obviously censoring this conversation.

Censorship. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Your initial comments all posted between midnight and 3 AM local time where I live. I do actually sleep. Clearly not enough, but I do have to crash every night, just like everyone else. Then I had a couple of early morning meetings and didn’t have time to peruse the spam quarantine until now. Your comments have been released, for the amusement of my more rational readers, who like their target practice.

Well, you used to stand a good chance of getting hepatitis B from yellow fever vaccine, because it contained human blood serum. And the risk of hep B from blood transfusions was also high. Research led to tests for hep B, safer vaccines and transfusions – and a vaccine for hep B.

Fascinating history – the yellow fever vaccine was in the 1940s, blood screening (in USA) became mandatory in 1972, hep B vaccine became available in 1981.

FTA:”Further studies have revealed that hepatitis B can be passed from person to person not only through blood but also through sexual contact or from a carrier mother to her newborn child. An important study in Taiwan by Palmer Beasley and colleagues in 1975 showed that nearly two-thirds of infants born to HbsAg-positive women became HBsAg carriers themselves. The hepatitis B vaccine protects people from all forms of transmission. Because infants or children infected with hepatitis B virus have an extremely high risk of becoming lifelong carriers of the disease, universal childhood vaccination for hepatitis B has now been adopted by more than 85 countries, including the United States.”

Brad

Chris Edwards,
Tell me what you see when you look out of your window.
No, not that one, the one on the other side of the room.
See that black speck near the horizon? That’s me in my New World Order regulation issue obsidian black AH64 Apache. Watching you.
Tut, don’t swear now, Julie next door doesn’t like it.
And no, don’t bother firing up the laptop to alert your AoA cronies, I’ve downloaded a Stuxnet worm which activates whenever it encounters more than two consecutive words in upper case.

@Orac:

I do actually sleep.

I didn’t know that blinking boxes of lights could sleep.

@Chris Edwards: For pete’s sake. Would you think and have a little courtesy before screaming censorship? If you had taken the time to actually READ some of Orac’s other postings, you would have 1)been aware of the hyperlink filter (it catches comments with more than a certain number of links, or several comments in a row with one link) and 2)Orac very, very, VERY rarely censors comments. He has banned, IIRC, only 3 people in the entire time he has blogged.

I’m MENSA certified homegrown USA Humanist!

Of great, another “meber”. Claiming Mensa membership as an argument from authority is a sure sign of a crank. The ALL CAPS is just a bonus.

In case anyone has trouble with this concept (and there are a few who do, for some reason), free speech rights in the US require that the government not prosecute you just because you have unpopular, controversial, or even hateful views (e.g. Westboro Baptists) or because you attempt to propagate those views in the public sphere.

Free speech rights do not mean no one is allowed to complain to CBS about advertisements they are displaying which are meant to lure people to anti-vaccine activism, or that CBS must somehow continue to air the advertisements if they feel they are hurting CBS’ public image (and therefore bottom line) by doing so.

@Chris Edward

You say that SV40 in vaccines caused cancer. Let’s see what pubmed has to say:

* No implication of Simian virus 40 in pathogenesis of malignant pleural mesothelioma in Slovenia. (PMID: 21302609) – No causative relationship found.

* The role of polio-vaccine in pleural mesothelioma–an epidemiological observation. (PMID: 18756898) – No causative relationship found.

* Simian virus 40 sequences in blood specimens from healthy individuals of Casale Monferrato, an industrial town with a history of asbestos pollution. (PMID: 19070904) – Found SV40 in healthy patients, i.e., it is circulating even among those who did not receive the vaccine. Also suggests that it may play a synergistic role with asbestos in MM.

* No detection of SV40 DNA in mesothelioma tissues from a high incidence area in Sweden. (PMID: 18225586) – No causal relationship found.

* Simian virus 40 and mesothelioma in Great Britain. (PMID: 17675661) – No causal relationship found.

* Is there a role for SV40 in human cancer? (PMID: 16963733) – A review stating there is insufficient evidence to support a role for SV40 in human cancer.

I could go on, but I don’t want to get into a Gish Gallop. Suffice to say, recent research suggests that SV40 does not play a causative role in human cancer. Furthermore, looking back at the incident, FDA took the right course of action to halt production until vaccines could be screened for the contaminant, ensuring only pure vaccines made it to patients.

In a similar vein, the PCV1 contamination of some rotavirus vaccines was handled swiftly, even though the protein fragments presented no danger to humans.

@Chris Edwards,
Censorship here is almost non-existent while over at AoA it is almost universal. In which world would you prefer to live?

That SV40 crap you are so fired up over sounds pretty horrible but children given a vaccine over 50 years ago to prevent polio, a most terrible, debilitating and deadly disease, survived polio-free for fifty years. Not bad when you consider those productive and happy years spent without the shadow of polio.

Cancer in aging adults is not uncommon. I’ve heard it said that most people will die from cancer if they live long enough. The key is to live long enough and vaccination enables that better than any other preventive system.

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen your proof of SV40-cancer link. Maybe soon?

TechSkeptic, you overlooked one of Chris Edwards’ biggest mistakes, namely, no PCV1 virus was found in the vaccine! Despite being a Suuuuuuuuper Geeeeeeeeenius!, Chris Edwards consistently misread “fragments of DNA from PCV1 were found in Rotarix” as “the virus PCV1 was found in Rotarix” every single time, even though those are two entirely different things!

This is somewhat similar to reading the sentence “The restaurant served John a beef stew that had bits of fish in it” and running out in the street screaming “They fed John a live fish! Those vile villains shoved a live fish down his throat with no concern for what its sharp fins and tail would do to his delicate inside! In fact it was probably a piranha and any minute now it’s going to chew its way through his stomach lining! LIVE FISH!”

I’m a former Mensa member myself, so I can guarantee everyone that Mensans are not all like Chris Edwards. Chris Edwards, however, is pretty typical of the kind of Mensa member who brags to strangers about being a Mensan: far too concerned with making sure people think he’s got all the right answers, and too lazy or self-righteous to double-check his work, or carry out any of the other efforts that are needed to actually obtain the right answers.

Chris E, so your proof that vaccines are dangerous is that two batches of vaccine were found to be contaminated with something, that the contamination was caught before the batches were widely distributed in the U.S., and that in the areas where it was released, there were no reported complications?

Your proof that they’re dangerous is that the system works?

And I’ve seen three elderly relatives die of complications due to post-polio symptoms, and I never got to meet three more of them because it killed them the first time. You’ll have to do better than shouting “monkey virus!” to convince me that the protection is really worse than the disease.

It’s a bit late, but the DC wrote a poem about the Jumbotron messages.

Chris E.:

The CDC will admit that they have never conducted studies on the current vaccination load. Vaccines are tested for individual safety, not in the variety and frequency they are given.

That’s an area I know pretty well, and you are wrong. Vaccines developed for the pediatric market are tested concomitantly with other vaccines. It would be unethical to skip vaccines for the purpose of testing a new childhood vaccine alone. Vaccines aren’t tested in a vacuum.

Is there a study looking at the risk of the whole vaccine schedule versus no vaccines? No, of course not, it would be unethical to run it.

@triskelethecat

“I didn’t know that blinking boxes of lights could sleep.”

It’s called low power mode or suspend mode.

The American Academy of Pediatrics is a professional trade organization which is designed to protect the professional interests of its members.

As a group and it’s personal members have financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies.

One of the main activities that it’s members partake in is the act of medical vaccination. Anything that opposes the activities of it’s members is an attack on the viability of the organization itself and it’s corporation partners.

This is not a child safety issue for the AAP. It is a self serving act of trade protection.

“It’s not personal. It’s just business. You’ll understand.” BANG!

Antaeus Feldspar,

In fairness to Chris, while he did confuse PCR detection of fragments for complete virus detection, it would appear likely that the live virus was present in the vaccine.

However, if Chris had bothered to use his Uber-MENSA intellect, he would have read the rest of the link that he had provided. GSK had contacted more than a few experts and found that PCV1 does not show any evidence of being able to productively infect human cells. There were three cancer cell lines including HeLa *tips hat to the late Mrs. Lacks* but none of them resulted in the production of live, infectious viruses. So, while there may have been the possibility of live PCV1 virus (Rotarix is not a killed vaccine after all), it would be highly unlikely to infect humans.

Killed vaccines using the same cell banks used in making Rotarix tested positive for PCV1 contamination at the early stages of development but after the killing and purification stages, tested negative.

As Dweller42 said, this simply shows that the system works. Nothing is 100%. We’re humans and we all make mistakes. However, there are measures in place to minimize the chances of adverse events. I will however agree that this contamination should have been avoided in the first place and probably could have by using more stringent QC (say assaying for a panel of known pathogens, human or porcine prior to using new batches of cells) but that’s just my opinion.

What to do with these people:

Give them a chunk of land where they can live as they choose, subject to two conditions:

One, in the event of an outbreak of a deadly disease in their community, they are subject to quarantine: nobody gets in or out without being vaccinated.

Two, in the event that the child death rate from vaccine-preventable diseases in their community exceeds a threshold *that they themselves can set,* the experiment is over and the place gets shut down. (You see the logic bomb in that one, right?)

For economic support, they could be given federal contracts to produce the kinds of stuff that are normally produced by slave (prison) labor, but at realistic contract prices that provide dignified wages. Or put them all on the federal dole for all I care, guinea pigs deserve free accommodations.

And then we may as well take bets on how long they last.

Oh, but one more thing: they have to agree that if they do start dropping like flies, they can’t go down the conspiracy trail about being poisoned or irradiated or whatever.

The same could be done to/for religious fundamentalist extremists, subject to conditions pertaining to child abuse including molestation (let’s be realistic about that!). Let them have their little theocracy and see how long it lasts.

As for alt med: hey, yoga is good exercise, it just doesn’t cure cancer or give men better you-know-whats.

Your comments have been released, for the amusement of my more rational readers, who like their target practice.

He loves us! Orac really loves us!

@Craig: Sorry for the double post. I am thrashing my network error generator as I write this.

I will be sorry if Mr Edwards does not return. There is a lot of good info for him and I’m always hopeful for re-education, augustine excepted.

One of the main activities that it’s members partake in is the act of medical vaccination.

I find the construction ‘medical vaccination’ odd, even for augie. Are there other kinds of vaccination? Is there troll vaccination?

There’s homeopathic vaccination — works as well as other homeopathic nostrums, and has a lot higher markup than medical vaccination, since you can just use tapwater.

Quote: “It’s just that the risks of being vaccinated are a whole lot less that the risks of getting the disease.” For a STD?? Oh no! They absolutely are not. They are vaccinating my child against diseases that are of no risk to her at all.
Hep B is a sexually transmitted disease that also occurs in IV drug users. NJ injects, and I might be wrong but I believe the CDC recommends, the injection of all newborns within 48 hours of birth. The shot only lasts 10 years, and the mothers are tested again at birth (Really, Actually drawing blood while they sew you back up). So my newborn has no risk from me, will not be injecting drugs, or having sex before she’s 10(!) Why are you mandating that she be injected with such an irrelevant vaccine before she has a chance to develop properly; While we have no real information or studies on the current recommended vaccine schedule?
The CDC will admit that they have never conducted studies on the current vaccination load. Vaccines are tested for individual safety, not in the variety and frequency they are given. Anyone here on the scienceblog should know what chemical cocktails are, or why this information applies to the question at hand?

Let’s see… Hep B can be transmitted by kissing, or by sharing food and drink, or by contact with non-intact skin. Any chance your daughter will be doing those before they’re 10? Or for that matter, ever, seeing as how we now know that the Hep B vaccine doesn’t wear off as was previosuly thought?

You may well be right that the CDC has never tested the vaccine schedule, but I’m pretty sure that’s no more relevant than the fact that the IRS and the ATF have also never done that. The FDA tests all new vaccines, and to ensure that children aren’t exposed to horrible diseases during tests, they’re tested in combination with the existing schedule, not in isolation.

@michelle:

“Diseases like measles and pertussis (whooping cough) can have serious consequences, including seizures, brain damage and even death.” SO DO VACCINES.

That’s like saying that jumping out of an airplane with a parachute is as bad as jumping out without one, because both can lead to serious consequences including paralysis, brain damage, and even death.

In both cases there are risks in using the proven remedies… BUT THE RISKS ARE FAR FEWER THAN NOT USING THE PROVEN PROTECTION METHODS.

Seriously, I’m thinking that the anti-vax crowd come from the same population as the dedicated gamblers who keep the lights burning brightly in Las Vegas; they have no real understanding of probability, and no way of weighing risks vs. rewards.

As for those touting MENSA tests as qualifications, I turned down an offer from MENSA when I saw how many of their interest groups focused on astrology, crystal-reading, tarot, palmistry, and similarly woo-packed fields. High IQ just means that any resulting idiocy is more creative than usual… it’s not a good measure of one’s ability to usefully match abstract concepts to real-world cases.

— Steve

That’s a good one wintermute. Not true, but good nonetheless.

http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_hepb.asp
Can HBV be transmitted in daycare via saliva, e.g., drooling infants?

Though HBV has been found in saliva, there are no data to suggest that saliva alone transmits HBV infection. There have been reports of HBV transmission when an HBV-infected person bites another person. In these reports, bloody saliva was usually present in the infected person’s mouth and the blood was more likely the vehicle of transmission. HBV is not spread by kissing, hugging, sneezing, coughing, food or water, sharing eating utensils or drinking glasses, or casual contact.

It’s called low power mode or suspend mode.

So, does that mean that Orac is an Energy Star appliance?

@15 – Chris Edwards

“potential loss of freedom of speech tend to annoy me.”

You seem to be as woefully informed about the Constitution as you are about immunology and vaccination. Here is the text of the 1st Amendment:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

The Freedom of Speech is freedom from government oppression of speech. Neither CBS, nor the AAP are governmental agencies, but are private entities. You do not have the “freedom” to advertise whatever you wish on a privately controlled network like CBS anymore than you would have the right to put an anti-vaccine propaganda sign on my front lawn.

The AAP is expressing their right to free speech by telling CBS that such ads are harmful. If CBS were to decide to remove the ad, then they would be exercising their right to determine what can or cannot be advertised on their network. Do hate groups also have the “right” to paid advertising space? Or can networks decide what types of ads they want to allow?

Here endeth the civics lesson.

Every parent is sure that their child will not be injecting drugs, or having unsafe sex. Would that they were correct. But a significant number of newborns do grow up to do those things.

Another group live drug-free lives, and are monogamously involved with someone who lies to them about using drugs. Or are “monogamously” involved in the sense that both parties have promised exclusivity, but one of them breaks that promise.

Do you really want to bet your child’s health on the idea that her/his spouse will come to the marriage bed a virgin, and never cheat? That may be your ideal, but statistics show that far fewer people do that than say they believe in it.

What’s bad for public health, is good for America. – Robert Schecter

It’s refreshing to finally read Schecter’s endgame from the source, though I’ve always known what game he is playing in his sad little world.

Chris E: Is there a reason you are sending links to powerpoint presentations that you haven’t read? What were we supposed to take away from them? Try an be a little more specific next time.

Also, most regular commenters here have high intelligence and multiple degrees or extensive medical experience. Your credibility will be measured by your comments, not by your ego. Many here are attempting to give you a chance, if you really do have some good ideas and reasoning, you will find a receptive audience.

I don’t buy car insurance because I’m planning to crash my car; likewise, I don’t get vaccinated because I’m planning to partake in risky behavior. I do both because the world is an unpredictable place, and there is no way to tell which events beyond my control will impact me.

Sharon, I agree with you. My cynical bet is that money (AAP, pharma and their mega sponsorship of most of the networks, newspapers) wins out over ethics. If the AAP really cared, they’d grab a brain and do some REAL studies (not the Madsen crap) to ascertain safety of the overly aggressive schedule and thimerosal, aluminum, to name a few specifics, and they’d back the hell off with the schedule, like some European countries. They only have themselves to blames for all of this. If there really is a disease that needs vaccinating for, peoples’ trust will have been long broken. Now, people feel they have been so badly treated (no real liability for vaccine manufacturers, no sympathy from people like you, not much in the way of awareness of the real risks of vaccines for some people) and this is what it has come to. Not surprising at all.

@Jen

“If there really is a disease that needs vaccinating for,”

Are you suggesting that there is no disease that requires vaccination?

So, Sid, what you’re say is that thanks to the bite I received from a playmate I might’ve worried about Hep B, but only had to worry about contending with impetigo* because I was vaccinated.

* Yes, impetigo only requires contact to be infected. Said playmate was bleeding from the mouth after I punched him. Hey, we were six, and it was a really, really cool truck he’d stolen from me.

Jen:

If the AAP really cared, they’d grab a brain and do some REAL studies (not the Madsen crap)

Again, please provide a critique of the multiple studies from Madsen from a qualified source? Not one written by a guy who has an MBA, but someone with actual scientific credibility.

Jen spewed: ” If the AAP really cared, they’d grab a brain and do some REAL studies (not the Madsen crap) to ascertain safety of the overly aggressive schedule and ….” blah blah

Aggressive [uh-gres-iv], adj.
1 of 6: characterized by or tending toward unprovoked offensives, attacks, invasions, or the like; militantly forward or menacing:
Synonyms: pugnacious, militant.

Amusing how Jen claims to have the ability to ascertain the safety of a system that she assumes, as a premise, to be already dangerous.

Cyclical logic is cyclical.

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