“You can’t spray Jesus with RoundUp”

So basically, there’s a cross-shaped object that, through the Power of Jesus(tm), has magically been made to look like … A CROSS! Well, I’m converted.

Surely a cross isn’t a particularly remarkable shape? You get an upright, you put a bar across it, you’ve got a cross. I can see about a dozen of them from my desk. Do these people really walk around everywhere going “Wow, look, Jesus! Wow, look, Jesus! Wow, look, Jesus”?

… actually, they might …

Other appearances in a cinnamon bun and a dog’s … um … buns:

http://dododreams.blogspot.com/2008/11/greg-laden-at-his-fiendishly-cleverly.html

Monsanto introduces ‘Roundup Ready Jesus’, the genetically engineered Messiah for the 21st century.

If they want Kudzu Jesus to keep looking that way, they’ll have to spray the arms pretty soon. Knowing kudzu’s explosive growing habits, it will outspread its current shape in no time.

I suspect that the next sign they get from Jesus will be a power outage. I feel bad for the electric co employee who is going to have to clean up that mess when they need to restore power.

He looks like he’s smiling.

Slightly off topic… Best bumper sticker I’ve seen in a while: “Would you follow Jesus THIS close?” (In small print.)

Gee, how weak is their faith? If it is a sign from Jesus, they should be able to nuke it with as much Round-up or even Finale and it would come back – resurrection dontchaknow?

So what happens when birds and other critters make their home on the kudzu, and somehow cause a short in the utility lines. Would they accept loss of power, phone, or cable as divined by Christ?

Chris – if you’d ever worked with kudzu, you’d know resurrection is one of their key attributes.

Always grow to the bright side of life.
(It’s where… we get all of our sun!)
Always grow to the light side of life.
(’cause pho-tosynthesis is fun!)
Life is full of $#!+,
let’s soak our roots in it.
We’ll climb the cross-shaped pole to reach the rays!
If we spread out then I’ll barter,
we’ll look just like a martyr,
And we can fool the rubes with Roundup sprays!
So, Always grow to the bright side of life…

Another sad story from NC.
I’m pretty sure there was a story like this in the last year or so.
It looks just like a scarecrow to me though, one in particular from a great Japanese children’s movie called Howl’s Moving Castle

By the way, I’m not sure that’s Kudzu. Kudzu has much larger leaves and I don’t think that pole is bigger than it looks. I think it’s another vine, probably Campsis radicans.

Oh but if I went ’round sayin’ I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away.

@#22: Do shut up. You know nothing of actual oppression, you spoiled, privileged brat.

Isabel – I’m confused. Are you saying that it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that a vine growing up a pole is a heavenly sign?

@Isabel:

A completely random, gratuitous post mocking Christians.

It’s not mocking Christians in general, but mocking the specific subset of Christians who think that the miracles performed by an ineffable God will include arranging kudzu in a specific manner.

Funny how Christians find God or Christ or Mary in common, every day objects like this and then when the news gets out they will flock to it in droves to stand around gazing at it and crying over the ‘miracle’ of it all. Yet they forget the two first commandments given by God:

1. You shall have no other gods before me
and
2. You shall not worship any graven image

And yet that’s exactly what this would be. People are worshiping an idol. Perhaps not hand formed by man, but still it is an idol, not God, therefore by doing so, they are breaking the first two commandments and that being the case, not really living up to the whole theme of being Christian.

I’ve also noticed how you don’t find Jewish people or Muslims or Buddhists or any other sect really, finding images of God in common things, at least it isn’t in the news like it is with these situations. This appears to be a phenomenon associated only with Christians and/or Catholics. What is missing from a person’s spiritual life if they have to see God/Christ/Mary in things around them? What about that whole ‘feeling God’s love in your heart’ thing? I thought that’s what it was all about, but then again, I’ve not ‘practiced’ a religion in quite a few years so maybe I forgot how it’s supposed to work.

One quick (and possibly irrelevant) point: RoundUp (TM) isn’t a first-line herbicide for controlling kudzu – it requires years of RoundUp application to kill the plant.

I mention this in case someone does spray this “Kudzu Jesus” with RoundUp and then claims “It’s a miracle! The RoundUp couldn’t kill it!”.

For people who think this looks like Jesus on the cross, I should point out that most rural roads in the US Southeast would look, to them, like an endless row of crucifixions, because almost every utility pole is so adorned.

Prometheus

“Hahaha. Nice. A completely random, gratuitous post mocking Christians.”

It’s not at all random. In fact, pareidolia has been mocked here on many other occasions.

Check them out, have a blast.

(I think there may be a correlation between the appearance of “hahaha” in a post and, well, something – but I’m too nice to speculate about it further. 🙂

It looks to me like Jesus came back as The Shroud of Turin, then The Shroud Jesus came back in the form of a Stevie Nicks dress, then Stevie Nicks Jesus came back as a kudzu poll in North Carolina.

You’re welcome.

I’m not making overtures Panic Man, I believe I crossed the line pretty solidly by most leftist (and totally hypocritical, unreasonable) standards. In fact, that was WAY over the line I believe.

Certain groups are simply off-limits when it comes to mockery I guess. Certain (quite powerful) groups should never even be mentioned by those outside the group. I believe that is closer to the current definition of “anti-semitism”.

“Go fall face down into dogshit.”

Nice guy.

Yeah all other religions are so rational and classy, only the Christians are wacky & tacky enough to mock.

Thanks for clearing them up.

Isabel, perhaps you would prefer Lenin in a shower curtain?

Pareidolia is a fairly common topic here and on other blogs. One cannot help but be flummoxed as to those who attach so much value in our brains tendency to form images, and even go so far as to spend serious money on an old grilled cheese sandwich.

So please stop clutching your pearls.

Even better, Isabel, from the drop-down list of blogs in the upper right hand corner, select Pharyngula.

The resulting burst of indignation might be enough to power a spaceship to another galaxy.

Isabel:

Damn, I was hoping to get banned for being an anti-semite on a post that was mocking Christians. It would have been so deliciously ironic!

You must be new here, Orac very seldom bans anyone. You must think you are on Pharyngula.

AND it happens to be one of Orac’s favorite things to mock. What a coincidence!

You really are a newbie, or think you are at Pharyngula! I believe that there are other things that get more mocking by Orac and those who comment here, mostly to do with alternative medicine. Have you ever heard of “Tong Ren”? Or other things that have qualified for Friday Dose of Woo?

“You must be new here, Orac very seldom bans anyone. You must think you are on Pharyngula.”

Oh, I’ve been around the block a few times, including stopping by here from time to time, and I’ve been banned by CPP, Ed Brayton, IBTP, Isis and Greg Laden. Pretty much the only well-known blog where controversial issue are discussed and where I often comment that I haven’t been banned from is Drugmonkey. In fact I was banned from Physioprof’s blog the very first time I mentioned the taboo topic discussed above. He later scrambled the thread by deciding at that very moment to disable threaded comments.

Pharyngula is boring; I don’t know why that site is so popular.

By the way I think the kudzu cross is kind of beautiful, and I love seeing patterns in things. Everybody does it, like looking at clouds when you’re a kid and seeing eagles or bunnies, or naming the constellations in the sky after mythical figures. Stop being such arrogant stick-in-the-muds!

Isabel:

Everybody does it, like looking at clouds when you’re a kid and seeing eagles or bunnies, or naming the constellations in the sky after mythical figures.

But not everyone claims that what they see is a sign from an omnipotent deity. That’s the part that’s crazy about pareidolia, and it would be crazy coming from Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, etc. And as a Christian, I don’t find this to be persecution of Christians in the least: it’s mockery of a belief that merits mockery. It says more about your mindset that you want to see it as persecution than it does about Orac or anyone who commented here.

Damn, I was hoping to get banned

Wait, you came in deliberately trying to get banned, and now you’re whinging about how you get banned everywhere you go? Having seen your posting habits over at Dispatches, I can say with confidence that you get banned because you’re a freaking troll.

Get over yourself.

The Christian Cynic:

I can say with confidence that you get banned because you’re a freaking troll.

But is she a match for the resident trolls here? Have you met Little Augie and Th1Th2?

So we can just ignore her. Thanks!

Isabel, trying to get banned is equally boring, if not more so. Do you actually have anything to say? ’cause if you’re just trying to get banned, you’re going about it the wrong way.

Makes you look kinda stupid, ya know?

Whatever you are, it is really quite boring. But stay around, we like fodder like you. Because you are easy to rile up.

This has been foretold – see the Gospel of John 15:1

Jebus announces “I am the true vine…”

Stripey_cat,

Yes, I was thinking of the closing scene in Spartacus. After reading this post, I drove down a country highway with serious kudzu overgrowth and that was the image that came to my mind.

Prometheus

Boring Isabel is boring.

Thats one strange looking jesus….looks nothing like the plastic jesus riding on the dashboard of my car.

Isabel is no less noxious a troll than Thingy or Little Augie—her debut on Dispatches was as a slavery apologist, quoting all sorts of Barton-esque revisionist historians to the effect that indentured servitude was exactly the same as slavery, maybe worse, and that more white people had been enslaved in America than black people. She also accused everyone there of having been “brainwashed” to ignore all the outrages committed against “our own”.

Well, right-wing lunatics are a dime a dozen on the internet, but her periodic insincere firebagger purity trolling makes her one of the most annoying trolls I’ve ever seen. Call her on it, though, and the teabagger venom will eventually begin to flow.

Isabel – maybe this will get you to lighten up.

Isabel: No, it would absolutely not be bigoted to take something wacky that is essentially Jewish and mock that, provided that the reasoning for mockery is that it is absurd and not that it is Jewish.

Here’s a great example: the Orthodox Jewish notion of eruv. (Full disclosure: I learned about this practice from The Daily Show. Take that how you will.) I wouldn’t blink an eye if Orac or any other skeptic pointed out how ridiculous this practice is (although I do think that it is of somewhat a different nature than pareidolia — but that is somewhat tangential). Absurd beliefs are absurd regardless of whether or not they’re religious, and as a religious person myself, I think it’s absolutely inappropriate to make overwrought accusations of bigotry for criticizing such beliefs.

By the way, if you wanted to have any shot at feigning sincerity, you lost it when you took a totally innocuous comment and tried to cry bigotry again.

Troll.

“2) Blog away. But Annoying Things Jews Do is a well-worn meme, not least among Jewish comedians.”

Can you give me an example of someone who is not Jewish who expresses this meme?

Also, can we admit that the Jews run Hollywood at least?

“to the effect that indentured servitude was exactly the same as slaver”

This is an oft-repeated lie. Why do you need to lie? That says a lot about you. There is no evidence for me saying that. Let’s not go over it again. You need to see a therapist asap.

“and that more white people had been enslaved in America than black people”

hahahaha yeah, I said that, right. Hahahahaha. You are incredibly deranged. Why would I say something so obviously untrue?

“took a totally innocuous comment and tried to cry bigotry again.”

yeah I should have known the association between crosses and the south was a movie reference. It still reeks of bigotry. Anyway, how can you defend what brayton did to that kid? No one even seriously tried to, yet now you demonize me. And for speaking up, I am not even allowed to read the blog, lol.

Novalox, thanks, it is funny isn’t it;) I am trying to be a light-hearted messenger here. We need to be prepared for trying times ahead.

I think that Isabel can’t see the difference between laughing at people who see Jesus in a clump of kudzu (and see something miraculous in that) and laughing at Christianity. Unless there is something in Christianity that tells its believers to look for the “Second Coming” in the form of invasive plants, I see nothing anti-Christian about laughing at this nonsense.

Of course, we can also laugh at people who are so sensitive about religion that they are offended when we laugh at the “Kudzu Jesus”. Lighten up a bit, Isabel.

Prometheus

Hahaha. Nice. A completely random, gratuitous post mocking Invasive Species. Just what the blog needed to liven things up. And how bout those Farmers in their funny hats? They totally crack me up! I’m getting into the spirit here!

Oh wait, did I cross some sort of arbitrary line??? (Ox Eye Daisy mysteriously disappears from Orac’s site in a cloud of Roundup for ever after for crossing the Big Farmer Shills).

Bigots

So, the idea is that it’s a professional sad sack?

So what your saying is, if we did a study on instances of religious mockery on Science Blogs all the world’s religions will be equally represented?

Yes, we would see all of the world’s religions equally represented, since most of the writers on SciB are US-American and all of the world’s religions are equally represented in the USA. What’s that you say? The USA is actually 70% Christian? In that case, what distribution of religions we would expect to see in the jukes of SciB writers, who are mostly from the USA? Hmmm… Help me out here.

Also, to whomever said that Muslims don’t engage in such silliness: Muslims may find the idea of their god having a visage blasphemous, but they make up for it in other ways.

The Christian Cynic: Eruv, like most purity-related traditions, smacks of OCD.

Last summer I spent a week at my brother-in-laws home nestled in a valley in the Rocky Mountains near Denver. We walked the trails near his home and were discussing the history of the Rocky Mountains and in particlular the Ute Indian tribes that populated the area for thousands of years. The Ute Indian tribes lived in what is now the US states of Utah (hence the name) and western Colorado.

The Ute indians believed that the red rocks that jut throughout the Rocky Mountains represented the dead and the red rocks were where the spirit of the dead lived eternally. I saw a number of these rocks that resembled indian features of narrow eyes and lips and Romanesque’ noses.

One of the most famous of the Red Rocks can be viewed in athe following link:

http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-indian-heads/indian.html

I think it looks kinda like a Eurypterid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haeckel_Eurypterus_tetragonophthalmus.jpg
All hail our prehistoric sea scorpion overlords!

But seriously, as Jesus pareidolia goes, this one is a bit of a stretch. You might as well say that anything with bilateral symmetry is Jesus.

Holy guacamole, I would not have expected an article about a vine growing up a telephone pole to have brought out this much angry trolling.

The next best scienceblogs religion = one that does not interfere with government reading comprehension and basic reasoning skills.

Fixed that for you.

The respected commenters are not all atheists. They do however cite evidence and refrain from engaging in logical fallacies and wild conspiracy theories.

Battleaxe, that link was cringe worthy. Point made.

Augustine, do you have any evidence for your accusations? Ever? What “suspended belief systems” do I have? Who was that “respected commenter”, and when did he make that statement?

Isabel whinges:

“You are suggesting that it is your belief that all ethnic groups, races, religions are equally respected/disrespected on the science/academic blogs. I somehow doubt it.”

Not at all. However, I think that Isabel goes too far when she claims that laughing at religious pareidolias is equivalent to laughing at Christianity. I don’t claim to be a religious expert, but I can’t recall anything in Christian scripture that supports the claims that “images” of Christ seen (or imagined) in kudzu, water stains or toast are “miracles”. Of course, Isabel might be able to enlighten me, as I’m not “up” on scripture.

Of course, we won’t see many Muslim pareidolias, since they hold that images of the Prophet (not to mention God) are blasphemous. I’m not aware of any religious images in Judaism, so pareidolias should be pretty rare in that religion, too. I also haven’t heard of any Buddhist or Hindu pareidolias, but I can’t claim to have done a thorough search for them.

Isabel continues:

“Or is what you are saying is that my perception is true but I’m just taking it the wrong way; practitioners of certain specific religions or ethnic groups are just especially funny? Because that in itself is pretty bigoted. Which kind of bigot are you?”

Nice “straw-man” there, Isabel. If your particular version of Christianity sees divinity in images of Christ wrought from kudzu, then I suppose your religion is especially funny.

Am I to assume from your comment that religion is exempted from any sort of critique? If we can’t laugh at religious practises, then are we not allowed to be offended, upset or outraged by them?

If a kudzu Jesus is a legitimate part of Christianity, then laughing at it would be laughing at Christianity. However, unless Isabel can point to the scripture or other religious authority supporting the “miracle of the kudzu”, I’m going to assume that the two are NOT congruent.

Prometheus

So Isabel the coconut troll? Hmmm, I guess we should just ignore or mock Issy the Coconut depending on our mood.

Isabel: You are obviously immune to reason if you think there is no reasonable way to defend that, and I couldn’t care less what an ignorant troll thinks of me. Also, you are absolutely mischaracterizing what Ed in fact did, but as I said, you haven’t shown yourself to be charitable enough to be worth bothering with.

Prometheus:

Nice “straw-man” there, Isabel. If your particular version of Christianity sees divinity in images of Christ wrought from kudzu, then I suppose your religion is especially funny.

On reflection, I’m not sure that holds in the general case. A version of Christianity that saw divinity in everything might be something we could respect. Like the section in Rejoice in the Lamb about the cat Geoffrey, describing the way the cat worships God by, essentially, being a cat.

If these people were saying something along the lines of “see how even a noxious weed can take on the form of something divine, thus illustrating some profound insight or other into how all things reflect the Godhead”, I think we could respect that point of view while still agreeing that the actual weed in question should be rooted up and wiped out.

On the other hand, if, as seems to be the case here, people are simply being dumbasses, then we have little recourse but to mock them.

Wow what a coincidence. Bigot Brayton has a post up about goofy christians seeing things in inanimate objects. And it made the top five. Total coincidence of course.

Well at least we’ve agreed that the jews run Hollywood. I guess that’s progress.

Isabel, you continue to misrepresent the way things happened. For the record, here is part of one of my replies to you from that thread as evidence that I did in fact address your concern about stereotyping:

I’ll repeat my impression of this story: 1) the events themselves are very out of the ordinary, and 2) the story reads like someone wrote a scenario out based on the worst stereotypes of rednecks, yet the story is absolutely real, which adds to the surreality of the situation. Racism or bigotry need not enter the equation at all.

All Ed did was to post what seemed like the real life re-enactment of a stereotype (an instance of truth being stranger than fiction, at least at first glance), and he added one more piece, as if to say, “This couldn’t possibly be more surreal.” You took it as evidence of bigotry and racism – quelle surprise, look at this thread – which was entirely unwarranted.

And if you want to defend the sanity of people who see the Virgin Mary in the defecation of birds, go ahead – I’m sure it will do wonders for your already soaring credibility.

“Notice Isabel didn’t have the guts to comment over at Ed’s place.”

I’m banned asshole. BECAUSE I have the guts to stand up to Bigot Brayton.

“being the racist PoS she is”

The only piece of evidence you have that I am a “racist PoS” is that I disagree with anti-white racism.

Hmm, standing up to racism=racist.

I have a comment in moderation in which I stated that Ed Brayton published the West Virginian boy’s picture, but I think he actually only published a *link* to the photo. Not much better, but still wanted to correct the inaccuracy.

Isabel

I’m a banned asshole.

Fixed that for you.

Yes, you missed a lot, Isabel.

1) The boy was crossdressing inside a house with an animal long included in the stereotype of bestiality in rural areas (I noted in the other thread that it could have been a sheep and been equally stereotypical). He was also high on bath salts, and the goat belonged to a neighbor’s four-year-old grandson. (Funny how those last two things don’t exactly elicit much sympathy…)
2) You’re assuming that someone who finds the situation amusing is reinforcing the stereotype, but as I noted, it is because the situation so perfectly met up with the stereotype – which doesn’t often happen in real life (i.e. the stereotype is not accurate) – that the situation was in fact humorous. If Ed had posted about a situation in West Virginia that had no insinuation of anything stereotypical but inserted his own unprompted, then I think you might have a case.
3) You keep coming back to empathy, but laughing at the absurdity of the situation doesn’t preclude empathy. I think you’re right that the kid will take a lot of heat for the incident, but most of that is due to the nature of the situation. If he had been crossdressing and that was it, it wouldn’t have been that bad and would have seen less publicity, but other elements (like the goat with the stab wound) added to it. Unfortunate for the boy, and I do think he needs some help (if nothing else for the bath salts – I have personal experience with someone who’s done them, and that’s bad stuff), but he did put himself in the situation.

My post #105 was mangled; I think I accidentally added some html. The 4th paragraph should read:

“This information, along with a report of *gasp* pornography in this nineteen year old’s bedroom, was obtained by his neighbors, who admit that they entered *his bedroom* despite his protestations that he was not dressed. He was high on drugs at the time.”

Did it ever occur to you to examine why these offensive stereotypes come so easily to mind, and why it is socially acceptable to laugh at this particular population, identified by race and class? Hmmm, I wonder how kind Hollywood has been to poor rural Americans, Appalachians in particular?

Are you familiar with “black humor”, or are you too sheltered? The majority identifiable group does not have the social protection afforded to minorities, especially minorities that have been violently subjugated, at times, by the majority. In fact, such ingroup humor is probably a social construct developed to issue warnings to members of said ingroup, that such behavior will be noticed and you will be humiliated.

Humor – International Journal of Humor Research. Volume 18, Issue 1, Pages 1–22, ISSN (Online) 1613-3722, ISSN (Print) 0933-1719, DOI: 10.1515/humr.2005.18.1.1, April 2005

@ JayK

Humor – International Journal of Humor Research. Volume 18, Issue 1, Pages 1–22, ISSN (Online) 1613-3722, ISSN (Print) 0933-1719, DOI: 10.1515/humr.2005.18.1.1, April 2005

No way! A scientific journal dedicated to humor?

/google search/

Yeah, that’s right! Well, why not, it’s an important human emotion, but I never…

Sir, you made my day.

Battleaxe, what do I have in common with him? I am not interested in the subject so I won’t bother. Read Joel Stein’s LA Times article on the subject. Orac implied it was okay to discuss here anyway. If it is off-limits I will respect that but I think that it’s a little weird.

My point is that we are selective in WHICH stereotypes we indulge in, WHICH groups we are allowed to mock (and which we are not allowed to ever mention if we are a non-member even if it’s a relatively powerful group)and so on.

😕 The majority identifiable group”

Appalachians???? The story was funny because it was about West Virginia, you fool.

“especially minorities that have been violently subjugated, at times, by the majority”

Which would include the West Virginians. Why isn’t West Virginia a rich state, with all that coal? Why are its residents drinking black water due to mountaintop removal and suffering from black lung disease while Hollywood and Science Blogs laugh at them?

Yes the Appalacians and other **constantly mocked** rural white Americans subjugated the Jews, so therefore the Jews can mock them all they want, and conveniently they run Hollywood and much of the other media in the US. It is a warning system you say? Cross dressing near a goat will be noticed and you will be humiliated! You have some pretty bizarre ideas. I’m not sure I even want to read that reference.

How about we don’t stereotype and make fun of any groups? How about we attempt to diversify Hollywood? How about we make a few movies by Christians that make fun of Jews. It would be healthy. I believe the Holocaust occurred and nothing like it should ever happen again. But I don’t think that is a good reason for dis-allowing making fun of the Jews once in a while. Or acknowledging their incredible power, their influence over the American popular culture, (probably more than any other group). Yet it’s the one group that is completely off-limits. I think that in itself is a bit of a powder keg, don’t you? We could use a little humor *all around* to diffuse the situation.

“No, but as I said, the kid did put himself in the situation.”

Your brain put the pieces together.

Isabel – your rantings might have a place in 1950’s WASP culture, but certainly are a bit passe in today’s 21st Century World.

Your views are maybe just a bit to the left of a full-blown White Supremacist, but definitely toe the line. Seriously, Jews & Hollywood, Jews & Popular Culture?

Have fun with that.

I can’t believe that someone would think that this was divinely inspired. Anyone who’s had to deal with kudzu would know that the stuff is satanic.

Nice(?) to see Isabel back giving her righteous indignation a good workout.

“Seriously, Jews & Hollywood, Jews & Popular Culture?”

I don’t want to send a comment with a link into moderation.

Google Joel Stein & Jews in Hollywood LA Times. Why is me saying what he is saying equivalent to Holocaust denial? Is Joel Stein therefore a Holocaust denialer? Are you denying that the assertion is true? Really? Or just saying it’s wrong to talk about? I just want to be clear on *why* it’s anti-semitic to bring up.

“but definitely toe the line. ”

Exactly where is the line?

“You mean an article about how humor is used by ingroups as a method to enforce social rules without violence? Afraid you won’t understand it? ”

How does that apply to the Brayton discussion?

“West Virginian people are white and American, that sets one of their major ingroups and allows for the usage of humor, at their expense, to discourage certain behaviors. Christians find themselves in the same situation.”

Could you elaborate? I’m totally confused. I mean, Jews are white and American also, but we can’t make fun of them.

“But maybe that’s too difficult for an uptight white girl like yourself?”

Uptight white girl? What does that even mean? That I don’t enjoy humor at my expense, enjoyed by people with more power than me who I am not allowed to EVER laugh at? Or so much as mention (exhibit A: see above comments).

“Or maybe I’m just a Jew with a penchant for making fun of uptight white christianist girls.”

I would love to respond in kind, but I am not allowed to, even as a joke. Does it feel good to mock someone knowing their life or career could be destroyed if they mocked you back? I’m curious. I’ve never had that kind of power.

Sorry you’re so thin-skinned that you can’t take a joke at *your* expense once in a while.

@Isabel: Thank you for the best laugh I’ve had in awhile. To be honest, I recognize it as schadenfreude, which is cheap and tawdry at times, but I’ll enjoy it nevertheless.

You complain, in a Monty Python sketch-like way, that you’re repressed, that you can’t talk about those horrible dirty jews because of some unwritten rule. In a complete act of unawareness, you post a citation to a major publication article that talks about the Jewish influence in Hollywood. On top of it all, no one has censored you, or told you to stop maligning jews, they’ve only pointed out that you’re pretty anti-Semitic.

On top of all of this, you make some paranoid remark about how your career/life could be destroyed if you say anything bad, which you’ve already done, and you seem unable to recognize that you’re basically anonymous here.

And you think I can’t take a joke? What joke would that have been? Hell, I could claim I’m a black homosexual jew with a penchant for furries, and I have. What I am is nothing more than another anonymous commenter that has set up his credibility here through the usage of scientific citations and hopefully insightful and humorous remarks. What joke could you tell that would actually hurt me in any way or that I would find offensive? I spend most of my days researching domestic terrorist groups that are typically formed through racial identities. I read some accounts of some real bigots, so when I find some pearl-clutching twit accusing average people of bigotry with little foundation, I just can’t help but enjoy myself.

“Making jokes or poking fun at a person or even a group of people… is an extremely negative trait & should not be encouraged”
That is exactly what I am arguing here! It IS allowed if you are discussing certain groups. No one is willing to explain why.

“you happen to believe they “control” Hollywood”
I “happen to believe” it? What does that mean?

“In a complete act of unawareness, you post a citation to a major publication article that talks about the Jewish influence in Hollywood”

A complete act of self-awareness? I already explained that he was able to talk about it because he is a Jew. It also completely backs up my assertion regarding the statistics. He is allowed to talk about it and say “Go us!”. A non-Jew is not allowed to question this near-monopoly by an ethnic group that represents a tiny percent of the population. Look at all the hyperbolic accusations that immediately start flying around when someone even brings up the subject.

“On top of it all, no one has censored you, or told you to stop maligning jews, they’ve only pointed out that you’re pretty anti-Semitic. ”

That right there is both false and intimidating. Some people here do know who I am. And I have not said one word that is anti Jewish! You have just proven that simply talking about Jews is considered anti-semitic, and you well know what charges of anti-semitism can do to a person’s career.

“those horrible dirty jews ”

**YOUR** ugly words. I would never say (and have never said) anything of the kind about any group. A large proportion of my friends and acquaintances are Jewish. I’m a fan of many Jewish authors, filmmakers, and comedians. A large proportion of my new academic colleagues are also Jewish and I’m not aware of any negative feelings towards them.

I’m pointing out that the rules are different and it definitely is a strictly enforced situation; in fact, I’ve probably already said too much and should leave the blogosphere for a while.

“be destroyed if you say anything bad, which you’ve already done, and you seem unable to recognize that you’re basically anonymous here.”

No I’m backing out because just discussing this and reading the accusatory comments is making me pretty uncomfortable. I’m a veteran of the entertainment industry so I know what can happen.

Soon you will be able to go back to openly mocking people who drink black water and die from black lung disease, safe in the knowledge that you are 100% unlikely to stumble across them laughing at you on Science Blogs or in any mainstream media. Criticism of your group is securely off-limits and considered the realm of white-supremacists; and anyway they’re too poor to own media companies.

Yeah, they’re the ones in power, the group we need to keep our eyes on. The hillbillies.

“What joke would that have been?”

Like I am going to give you an example here? Not likely. I simply made a factual statement, which you admit is true, and look what I’ve been called. Here’s a vague hypothetical: What if I did like Brayton did, and used a news story about a Jewish person that was just so stereotypical that it was “surreal”, and added a little extra stereotypical flourish? How do you think that would go over?

Unlike Stein who gets away with straight talk on the subject, I probably shouldn’t put it so bluntly, so that no one thinks I believe in a cabal or illuminati or whatever. Honestly, it’s ludicrous and unfair to insist that only Jewish people can discuss the situation. What if that article had *not* been written by Joel Stein?

That was one of the finest orchestrated paranoid meltdowns I’ve seen in awhile. Thanks Isabel, you’re one groovy anti-Semitic pearl-clutching chick. I wonder if there is a supplement for a lack of humor?

Dropping back in to see if I can’t stir up Izzy into a tizzy some more.

1) I’ve never seen Spartacus, although I’ve read most of the contemporary source material that I’m aware of.
2) The slave revolt comment was indeed intended as gallows humour. I’ve met a fair few people (UK and US) who seem that they’d secretly rather like to be able to go back to Roman SOPs for dealing with troublemaking elements in society (a category I fall into from time to time). Most of them are also keener-than-average god-botherers, and not too hot on the old rational thought in other respects. Some folks, the only thing you can do is laugh at them from a safe distance.
3) It was not particularly intended as a slur on the South (most of the Americans I’ve met, nasty, nice and in between, have been from New England); is kudzu only a problem in hot climates or something?
3) I doubt even a couple of legions could put down kudzu.

@Isabel: Didn’t you say you were going to leave the internets?

Let me see what Jewish stereotypes I can come up with: pennypinching, big nosed, inbred (rarely), in control of Hollywood, bankers, state sponsored terrorists, fois gras eaters, nagging adult women, kvetching fathers, etc etc…. How long would it take me to find a blog with a Jewish joke?

Ah, under 30 seconds.

Son: A Jewish boy comes home from school and tells his mother he’s been given a part in the school play.

Mother: “Wonderful. What part is it?”

Son: The boy says,”I play the part of the Jewish husband.”

Mother: The mother scowls and says, “Go back and tell the teacher you want a speaking part.”

Or I can tell the one asking how many Jews it takes to change a mother-in-law’s light bulb.

Answer: What, you want me to sit here in the dark and go blind?

Haha, see, it’s funny because it is a humorous poke at a stereotype! Was it slightly insensitive? Nope, it is part of this discussion and has relevancy, and most intelligent people would recognize that, rather than take it out of context and run around crying to those that actually get the point of Brayton’s post.

The part that identifies you as an anti-Semetic is that you brought up the topic and won’t let it go, and you’ve added the Hollywood stereotype into a discussion in which it was totally unnecessary. Add on top of that your high level of paranoia and inabilities to understand the science of humor in cultural contexts and you appear to be little more than a boorish ninny.

Your solution (2) is ignorant of human behavior and reality. I attempted to point out how humor is a consistent part of human relations and is unconsciously and consciously used as a method for addressing social mores in a non-violent and non-confrontational method. It serves as a warning to others that certain behaviors will be mocked. I would go out and find more studies, but I don’t think you’ll read them, nor would you be able to get much out of them. If someone else would like some citations to psychological research on humor in cultural morals, I’ll be happy to go chase some down.

I hasten to add here:

I don’t have anything against people living in Appalachia, and I have great sympathy for the lives they live.

This statement, of course, is directed at the poorest and most vulnerable individuals of the region, not everyone; that would be a silly generalization to make.

@137: No worries, I’m not driving my blood pressure up over a troll like Isabel. 😀

@JayK

Let me see what Jewish stereotypes I can come up with: […] fois gras eaters

Nitpicking*, but it’s “foie gras”. “foie” is “liver”, “fois” means “time(s)” as in “once upon a time” or “manytimes”.

And, really? I didn’t know this one. Well, stereotypes are culture-related, obviously.
I guess that in my country, foie gras is not just for the upper rich. Or that we are aware that not all rich people are Jews (must be a miracle, because the other stereotypes are still alive and well, unfortunately)
This, or I’m simply not that curious about racial stereotypes.

nagging adult women

Come on, this one applies to the adult women of all Mediterranean countries.

* another one I regularly have to nitpick about**: “coup de grace”, which is pronounced like “grass”, not [gra]. The latter is the way one should pronounce “gras” (“fat”). To give a “coup de gras” is to hit someone with a slab of bacon***.

** I took a vow: to teach Americans to pronounce French-borrowed words correctly. Um, I gonna reinforce the stereotype of Frenchmen being nitpickers – oh well, cannot stop myself.****

*** although for people who don’t like pork for religious reasons, this could be a coup de grace as well. See the novel Ivanhoe, from Walter Scott (the incident between the fool and the usurer in the tournament)

**** Now, if only I could learn to pronounce English words correctly. A task at which I’m not as good. Let’s keep trying…

Aaand—in a pedantic post like that, I make TWO misspellings in your one-word nick. Yay, me!

You could be right about the dog-Latin, but then I’d have to mention the founders of Quantum Physics perpetuating the dog-Latin habit of using “quantum” to mean “tantum”.

Yeah, I was less ashamed of re-inserting the “h” than in switching the “a” and “i” around.

P.S. I fully approve of the co-option of this thread for pedantry. That is a far less tedious subject than what has been discussed previously. ;D

Oh, you don’t want to encourage me. If you get me started on names that should have a “the” in front of them which people keep leaving out, we’ll be here all night.

(I’ve been “fatigued into compliance” on most of them, but my lines in the sand are The Ukraine and The Sudan.)

@Battleaxe: Aaand—in a pedantic post like that, I make TWO misspellings in your one-word nick. Yay, me!

Ah, Muphry’s Law strikes again!

@Heliantus, your post was most amusing.

John’s comment got me thinking about a project – photographing cats’ assholes until you find one that resembles the virgin Mary. I’d say it’s at least do-able in principle and would make for an interesting storyline.

“You do *what* for a living?!”

Sorry, been a dodgy Saturday already.

I do love what you guys have done with it, though. I’d like to mention the word “paradigm”. With two of them and a nickle I can have a quarter!

Pedantic, but wouldn’t two paradigms and a nickle give you 45 cents? If not, I may have been overcharging for my own.

Didn’t you say he “put himself in that situation”?

How is that to say that he deserved it? I was indicating his responsibility in the perception of the situation, not his moral status or prescribed guilt.

I won’t be responding to most of the rest of what seems to be addressed to me (some of which is addressed to “CV” and some of which isn’t even my words) because it is simply too confused and irrelevant. I know what stereotypes are and how they develop, and I’ve explained my reasoning about jokes built on stereotypes enough not to want to repeat myself.

we decide whether we want a society where 1)everybody (and every group) can criticise and mock each other OR 2) all groups are protected and all respect each other.

The most realistic solution is (2) which is what I promote.

Hey that’s the same thing the Scientologists want: a world where everyone respects everyone else’s beliefs and lifestyles, even the stuff about auditing body thetans.

But funny shit remains funny. The lulz keep coming, even when it ain’t right to laugh.

Speaking of the Jews in Hollywood, I heard their in talks with the Scientologists about a merger and consolidation resulting in a New Age Kaballah franchise that promotes re-branded LRH tech and alt med, particularly the purif or ritual toxin detox package. The Simon Wiesenthal award to Tom Cruise probably means the deal went through.

Sorry kids, -I know I shouldn’t go back to a thread when I’m finished and I really will stop reading after this. I’m heading out to the field for several weeks tomorrow anyway and will have limited on-line access. But after posting last night I reread the entire thread and Jay’s article, and had something to say to him anyway.

“But funny shit remains funny. The lulz keep coming, even when it ain’t right to laugh.”

Anon, I totally agree, and I agreed with Jay (see above) that solution (1) would be healthier. I just don’t think we will ever be able to return to those days. It’s not realistic. There are way too many strong taboos and legal restrictions in place for most groups. Therefore the only decent alternative is (2) for all groups to be off-limits. Remember, our larger goal is to diffuse an extremely polarized, volatile political situation in the US.

Like virtually every respondent to me on this thread, you are avoiding the real issue which is the unfair double standards currently in place.

CC, I was not just talking about you specifically, of course.

“The fact is that the average person would get the same impression from the circumstances”

Right, the average person who lives in a city, who has never been anywhere Appalachia, somehow “knows” the people there are stupid, ignorant, barefoot, pig-fucking, inbred, toothless deranged criminals. The average American is extremely familiar with the stereotype while knowing next to nothing about the real people themselves.

I hope after this conversation you will give some serious thought to exactly how everybody just “knows” this. Please look into the specifics of this particular stereotype.

Jay, I reread the whole thread last night which reminded me to finally read your “reference”. Ha, it has nothing to do with “ingroups” mocking “outgroups”. It is all about joking within a group where all the participants know each other. Not relevant to the present discussion at all.

Okay, I have to starting packing. See you all *next time* we revisit this theme. Hopefully you will have done some homework by then so we can have a more fruitful, in-depth conversation.:)

Wow, Isabel doesn’t understand the usage of studies that look at small group interactions and extrapolating that to larger group dynamics, usually done to restrict confounding factors and at least set up a baseline for the hypothesis, which is what I presented. So lets see what other studies I can find which support my presented hypothesis that indicate that stereotype humor is used to change and enforce social norms:

Oh, look!

Our theory identifies
disparagement humor as an important medium, naturally operating in the social environment, through
which changes in social norms occur. Our theory delineates the processes by which disparagement humor
creates a normative climate of tolerance of discrimination—the social conditions that encourage the expression of prejudice—as well as variables that accentuate
and attenuate its effects. (p.79)

Ford, T. E., & Ferguson, M. A. (January 01, 2004). Social Consequences of Disparagement Humor: A Prejudiced Norm Theory. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 8, 1, 79-94.

Actually a very interesting paper that is a definitive addition to my EndNote library, it builds on current knowledge of prejudice, which is all about ingroups and outgroups (Allport, 1954).

Allport, G. W. (1954). The nature of prejudice. Cambridge, Mass: Addison-Wesley Pub. Co.

Allport’s book is considered the historical basis for the psychology of prejudice, and I have always thought it was pretty well written.

As well, there is the dark side to humor, in which the ingroup uses stereotype humor to set itself above the outgroup in order to establish and benefit group cohesiveness, in which there are both positive and negative aspects. This would seemingly be an attempt to indicate a slippery slope where the ingroup’s hostility towards the outgroup would be accentuated, yet Olsen, Maio and Hobden (1999) indicate that that is not what actually happens.

Olson, J., Maio, G.R., & Hobden, K.L. (January 01, 1999). The (null) effects of exposure to disparagement humor on stereotypes and attitudes. Humor, 12, 2, 195-220.

In the end, I think all we have is a paranoid anti-Semitic tsk-tsking bloggers for encouraging stereotypes, while remaining utterly incapable of understanding irony. What did this whole thing teach us? Well it taught me that I can really bring out the worst in people, which can provide a few joyous hours of cheap entertainment while I peruse the scientific literature for interesting studies to back up my claims.

“Yes, yes, the poor white folks is soooo oppressed! How dare people post stories about…what actualy happened?”

Yes, battleaxe, what did actually happen in West Virginia?

http://oae.sagepub.com/content/12/2/163.refs

Hmmm, who owns WV’s coal mines anyway? Yes, let’s discuss West Virginia more often. I’m all for it.

For the rest of you, I throw up my hands in disgust. Over and over you miss the point. Sure there are dumb blondes, CC, but do you see science bloggers making dumb blonde jokes when a blonde says something stupid? Do you?? NO!!!!

Isabel @ 162:

do you see science bloggers making dumb blonde jokes when a blonde says something stupid? Do you?

You wouldn’t happen to be blonde would you?

Oh look, the anti-Semetic “actress” is back, despite her promise that she was leaving. It looks like lying is just part of her personality.

Did you read the article I linked to? Lying, Jay? What lies? You have yet to name a single one, nor can you name a single “anti-semitic” statement. Perhaps you could start by defining the term. You seem more than a little confused. Besides being typically thin-skinned and paranoid.

It is incredibly inappropriate to joke around after reading about such a devastating situation. Either you both did not read the article I linked to at #162, or you are both sociopaths.

I’ve made an excellent case to back up my charge of bigotry on your (and Brayton’s) part, but you have yet to make any case at all for mine, just a long boring string of racist, sexist jokes and ad hominems.

“actress”

?

Don’t worry, Jay, I am sticking around for the long haul. Oh, and yeah, the personal threats have already begun. But I refuse to be intimidated, as I have done absolutely nothing wrong.

I have seen some really disgusting specimens online, Isabel, but you take the absolute fu¢king prize. You oozing chancre! I’ve read diatribes from real Stormfront-type Nazis, and I’ll take any honest nastiness like that over your purity-trolling, slavery-apologizing, Jew-baiting, “just sticking up against “anti-white racism” crap any day of the year.

How do you manage to look at yourself in the mirror, you rancid piece of filth? Saying that centuries of institutionalized slavery was no worse than a few of your ancestors coming over here with indenture papers for seven years? Implying you think that Teh J00z are going to come and get you because you bravely revealed that they “run Hollywood”?

Well, you’re right,Isabel: We tipped them off! They’re coming for you! Better run off to that Aryan Nations compound you spend your weekends at and hide away for a while.

Oh, and I’m not going to pay $32 to read your article, but it doesn’t say anything I don’t already know. How about some of these stupid a$$holes stop voting for the party that glories in inflicting this kind of thing on them and start voting for their own interests for a while? Oh, and maybe California’s budget crisis wouldn’t be so bad if they got back more than 60-some cents for every dollar they pay to the federal government, or if some red state hellholes like Alabama got less than two dollars back for every dollar, whining about taxes and the eebil gummint all the g0ddamn time—how about that?

And I hate these cutesie-pie orthographic tricks, but every bad word gets you moderated on this blog, and Isabel just brings them out of me!

Actually, Isabell-troll, I did read it. I have access to a good scholarly library. I also know how to properly cite things:

Fox, J. (December 01, 2000). Mountaintop removal in West Virginia: an environmental sacrifice zone. Peace Research Abstracts, 37, 6. doi: 10.1177/1086026699122002

The article is a review of how the practices of capitalism has resulted in a region in which the EPA and other environmental protections have been ignored in order to facilitate a high volume of low-sulfur coal for electricity generation. This has resulted in an isolated community/social structure that is kept in economic thrall to energy concerns.

So what? This has been largely recognized for a long time, and it was pointed out above that the people in those states keep electing politicians that promise to do nothing about the situation.

Perhaps you think whining about it is helpful? Or maybe you just don’t understand irony because you’re too busy whining and clutching your pearls?

You said you were leaving. You didn’t. That makes you a liar on top of your anti-Semitism, paranoia and absolute inability to understand irony. Go away.

Krebiozen: I meant to add that I’ll quote some relevant parts of the article later as well. But you can probably get a good idea by just googling terms like mountain top removal, ownership of west Virginian coal mines, Appalachian poverty, etc.

Here’s an entertaining early 20th century example of the depiction of the stereotype (this will probably send me in to moderation but here goes).

@ Krebiozen:
US politics boiled down into two sentences ( I won’t touch the stereotypes):
“Blue”= Northeast & West Coast= Labour and Liberal Party ( US Democrats) They’d vote for Mr Blair
“Red”= Southeast, Mountain West, Midwest= Conservative Party( US Republican, Libertarian) They wouldn’t vote for Blair.

@Dizzybell:

By asserting that “the Jews run Hollywood” and obsessing over it, you’ve shown that you hold a grudge against it. You haven’t actually proven that there is anything bad or wrong with an abundance of Jewish people owning marketable and profitable shares in the movie making business of Hollywood. You implied, assertively, that there is something bad about “Jews running Hollywood”. Therefore your comments are anti-Semitic. I don’t care if Jews run Hollywood, I don’t care if Muslims own that awesome Kabab stand down the street, I don’t care if there is a Muslim community center a couple of blocks from where the WTC towers stood. Obsession over those minor things shows a bigotry, not the ironic posting of a stereotypical image that indicates that American culture and society has improve.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/071611/oco_857876345.shtml

Take a look at that, if that isn’t a stereotypical portrayal of a Southern man with all sorts of iconic stereotypical imagery, I don’t know what is. I found the article quaint and someone entertaining, the part about how the ladies find his camouflage overalls was particularly funny.

Go clutch your pearls and be paranoid about the “Joos” somewhere else, please.

@Isabel,
Sorry, I thought the, “you all look the same to me”, comment made it clear I was being a bit flippant. Like most Brits I was reared on US TV like ‘The Beverly Hillbillies’, so I do have an idea of the sorts of stereotypes mentioned, also from watching movies like ‘Deliverance’. More recently I watched ‘Justified’ (excellent IMHO) set in rural Kentucky, which is full of moonshine, pot farmers and intellectually challenged, tobacco-chewing, gun-toting people in dungarees. Exploitation of the locals by a large mining company is a major plot-line in the 2nd season.

I probably shouldn’t express any opinion based on fictional representations of a situation I know little about. In general I think a lack of resources and a poor education often lead people to make poor choices, which make their situation worse, and that attracts blame from others – a vicious cycle. More education and opportunities might help, but where the resources for that come from in the current economic climate, I don’t know. I would have thought people making fun of them on the internet is the least of their problems.

@Denice Walter
Thanks for the explanation. As I explained to Isabel I do know a little more about the US than I let on, but the politics confuses me still, even though I’m married to an American.

@ Isabel; You’re partially right about one thing- “A tiny, powerful minority controls much” of everything- they’re called *rich people*- the top 1% or top 5% who earn/ own most of the country- real estate, stocks, bonds, savings, companies, et al. I truly doubt that they’re primarily Jewish ( who are not such a high percentage by themselves). In fact, most of them are *like me*: acceptable white bread. They usually avoid the conspicuous businesses you cite for quieter entrepreneurship and stock accumulation. Recently, they acquired enabling tax policy as well.

“I truly doubt that they’re primarily Jewish (who are not such a high percentage by themselves).”

Do you have some stats? I just said they are 40% of the billionaires, if that is the population you consider ultimately powerful. I lost the reference, but I got most of those stats from a Jewish website (I think it’s referenced on the other thread where I brought this up over at CPP’s, but he scrambled the thread by removing tags afterward so it’s too much of a headache for me to find now). I just googled ‘statistics Jews’ or something similar and found many links by Jews or Jewish organizations. I figured those would be the most trustworthy. These statistics are no secret. If the 40% figure is incorrect please do correct me (with an actual correct figure). I did read some mainstream news sites and some of Kevin Macdonald’s (at CSULB) work on the Jewish diaspora, in the interest of full disclosure. His Culture of Critique is pretty interesting.

And please read the article on Hollywood I referenced above by Joel Stein, also a proud Jew. Of course it’s true that all the Hollywood studios are not ‘owned’ by Jews or even by individuals or Americans for that matter, but we are talking here about running them. Do you really think that will have no effect whatever on what the studios produce? Sounds like a naive position to me. I thought we valued diverse views?

“I truly doubt that they’re primarily Jewish ( who are not such a high percentage by themselves). In fact, most of them are *like me*: acceptable white bread.”

Again, please provide some evidence. You doubt? I wonder why you are so moved to doubt that you post this comment. And what is “acceptable” white bread? Who said anyone was unacceptable?

“Just imagine Isabel, where the supporters of Bush’s ill conceived “privatizing” of social security would be now…on bread lines I would imagine, once the stock market went south.”

What are you talking about? I have no clue. Bush? Privatizing of Social Security? I can only conclude that you are completely deranged. You are meanwhile dismissing any possibility of commentary or discussion of the dominance of a particular tiny minority group in many facets of American finance, governance, media and education by labeling such commentary discriminatory in itself. At the same time you throw in your own opinion on the subject by admitting the power but explaining it; they are not lazy and uneducated like the rest of Americans apparently.

“your stereotypical remarks about Jews”

What stereotypical remarks? You find it distressing when someone points out that there is a double standard at play? You are not offended by the constant stereotyping of long abused and exploited Appalachians as (falsely) “inbred”, bestiality-loving, toothless, barefoot, ignorant, racists; yet you agree all mentions of Jewish power are “anti-semitic”? If I hadn’t been attacked for standing up for Appalachians and kicked off Brayton’s website the subject probably would never even have come up over here as I might not have felt so irritated by this post itself. (incidentally, someone else brought the Brayton thread up on in this thread, not me). But that really pissed me off, as does the double standard in general on the academic blogs.

Instead of rambling about Social Security lilady, perhaps you could answer the question I have repeatedly been posing on the thread. The one Jay couldn’t answer.

“But we can never laugh at Jews, blacks or any other group. Especially not vile references to bestiality and inbreeding. Well, why not? Why only white southerners, or West Virgians?”

Really, it is only because you don’t like their supposed voting patterns since 1980?

“we liberals ”

do you have a scrap of evidence that I am not also a liberal? One teeny tiny scrap?

“who continually vote against their own interests”

maybe they feel that some of the reasons they (notice I didn’t say we- just a clue) vote for such candidates are in their interests. Maybe they are being manipulated to some degree, which would put them squarely in the camp of the vast majority of human beings on the planet (as in the ones we are so careful not to stereotype). But maybe not. what did eight years of Clinton do for them? Why don’t they own the coal mines in the first place? Where are the posts about mountain top removal on science blogs?

“When implemented during the Bush administration, the regressive tax cuts were supposed to create jobs…n”

You are displaying your own prejudice and ignorance when you assert, like most people seem to do here, that working white American’s problems started with Bush tax cuts.

“Featured prominently on their site is their fixation on Jewish control of the media, finance and banking. ”

Right. The only place Isabel could have possibly gotten this information is some wacky site lilady has somehow uncovered in her impressive investigation. Like I said above, this information is easily available by just googling and going to Jewish websites (several available on the first page that comes up). And I maintain that a group that does have a lot of power should be available for commentary and even mockery by the less powerful, don’t you think? Even the kings of old had the court jesters. Your reply only illustrates the censorship that is in place. If you feel I have received erroneous information (on Jewish websites) please inform me (with correct stats that is, not some rambling reply about Social Security. Jeez seems like you’ve been drinking cool aid.)

“Could you be making an unfair assumption that educated people (Jews among them) do have an unfair advantage over high school dropouts? ”

I am not sure what your point is here in your potentially offensive remark; this sentence doesn’t make grammatical sense. And I am not making any claims about how fair the amassing of positions of power is, I am discussing the fact that it is not fair that the subject cannot be discussed by those with less power, while those in the media and entertainment industries feel free to mock and criticize those who are relatively powerless, and who don’t have a comparable forum to mock those in power.

“I think you owe us an apology for interjecting your prejudices into the discussion”

Hahaha. Keep waiting. I am still waiting for an apology from Brayton and his bigoted commenters.

“Your recurrent theme about Jewish control of the media and movies is evidence of your prejudices ”

Two threads over 2+ years is a “recurrent” theme only by your strange definitions apparently.

“it must be so because you read an article ”

Actually I worked in the entertainment industry for over a decade. Again, it is thoroughly documented; a few exceptions only prove the rule.

“Uptight lady, do you really think that “control” of the movies has any impact on the National discourse? ”

Of course it does.

“Educated people go to the movies for their entertainment value…not to decide their personal value system.”

This comment leaves me speechless.

“your phony support of Southerners”

I have two nephews growing up in West Virginia. I’m willing to risk my career so that they don’t grow up listening to these offensive and bigoted lies.

“your numerous antisemitic rants.”

Meanwhile, you haven’t documented even one!

“Just what is your agenda here? ”

I *just* stated it in my last comment.

“you are so utterly boring”

Haha I thought I was being anti-semitic? Now it’s boring?

p.s. Revealing, like Jay and all others on this thread, you did not answer my question.

Damn preview!

<blockquote>quoted material</blockquote>

Haha I thought I was being anti-semitic? Now it’s boring?

Evidently with a little bit of effort it is possible to be both at once.

Isabel, simple “solution” to your “problems”. If you don’t want to be thought of a as a racist Jew-hating Troll, try to write some coherent sentences and by all means figure out how your incoherence is interpreted by posters.

Posters here are very tolerant of other peoples views, but will not contend with hypocritical masquerades. Clean up your act lady, or accept the criticism that your remarks elicit.

Isabel: Why don’t you have a discussion with your two West Virginian nephews…whom you have risked your job for????

Also explain to them why Auntie feels so threatened by the Jewish-controlled media…and do a better “job” of it than your sorrowful indecipherable rantings here.

Me thinks Isabel used the opportunity of a silly blog that we all were having fun with, to vent her spleen about the Jews using the not-so-clever defensive ruse of blacks, Southerners and country folk. Get a grip Isabel, you’ve been busted.

And if you mean this post (the West Virginian comments refer to another post that everyone was “having fun with”, that someone else brought into this thread, not me) I already explained why it annoyed me right on the heels of the other. Why is it so hard to understand why people would tire of the double standard?

While not remotely as offensive as Brayton’s, I think posts like this one are part of a climate that is clearly anti-christian. I think we all have a responsibility to not contribute to the polarized climate. I mean come on, it was a total coincidence that *two* science blogs top-five posts are simultaneously, and apparently pointlessly, making fun of quirky Christians?

I claimed that my life was in danger? I complained that the Jews are “evil”? I am a Nazi? I should go die in a fire? More lies and sick, threatening, personal attacks. Along with another string of fabricated, complete lies about things I supposedly said, but never did? Do I have to deny them, with evidence, every time a weirdo like you feels the need to spew your sick hatred? Yes, your comments, which are despicable, totally cross the line.

The only negative thing I even said about Jews was that they were thin-skinned and, as this very thread illustrates, over-controlling of what others say about them. That it’s not fair that other, less powerful, groups are offered no such protections.

For this, you claim I am a Nazi who should fall face first in dog shit and then **die in a fire**. I can’t imagine how you would react if I actually said something mean and nasty, something comparable to the disgusting stereotypical comments you all find acceptable when discussing white Christian groups.

Are all yoga teachers as stupid as this spammer?

I want to encourage that you continue your great job, have a good day.

Ugh…who opened the cans of spam?

Many Christians believe Jesus can be found anywhere. In southern Lenoir County, he may be found on a utility pole.

What is incorrect with quote marks? What do they look like to you? You are the first being to ever protest about this.