GAPS in a doctor’s reasoning about vaccines and autism

It’s become a profit making industry (vaccination).

And pedaling woo cures for autism, ADD, ADHD, Depression, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Schizophrenia, and Toronto Maple Leafs Fans is not a profit making industry? I would like to see a comparison of ROIs between research, testing and manufacturing vaccines versus making shit up and publishing a book.

90% of all cells and all genetic material in a human body is our own gut flora.

Yes, but they are only a small fraction of the mass of the human body. However, when you are as full of shit as Dr. Campbell-McBride, then gut flora also are the majority of the mass of your body.

If damage to the digestive tract caused autism, wouldn’t that mean children with coeliac disease would be near-guaranteed to be autistic? An undiagnosed coeliac’s digestive tract can be a ravaged ruin. I know my friend’s was. She was diagnosed at 15, and pre-diagnosis her system was sufficiently ruined that she ate six times what any healthy child could ever force down and was underweight to the point of borderline malnutrition.

Developmental problems: zero.

Or call the clinic the “We rip the gullible off clinic”.

@Liz Ditz – get rid of the criminal involvement just by legalising it as Orac says.

Anyway, those 5000 anecdotal accounts, please find me ONE that has an obvious way of profiting from it and link it here. I simply don’t believe you know what you are talking about.

As far as I can see those people are being brave and speaking up to help others where legal medicine is not able too, and remember that people are speaking out about it in the UK too where there is no way they could profit like in California,

Don’t patronise me. It is not just parent and child amateur research. That search I did the other day turned up 3 professional studies.

I’m really suspicious that the issue is always dodged and never tackled head-on with science based approach?

Anglachel, from what I can see, the adults have been testing it on themselves for years before the parents ever found it by googling, then they tried it on their kids (usually with the guidance of a shady unnamed doctor in the background).

Only tried on the kids in the last few years.

This looks different to all those other woo treatments. For starters, it doesn’t claim to cure, only to reduce symptoms temporarily.

If it really works then surely it is what the autism world needs?

Oh, I just called 01353 723234 (Campbell’s number), her husband answered, he said “I don’t want to be having this conversation.” O_o

Lori,

she probably didn’t want to call it the Soham Nutrition clinic because most people in the UK associate that place with a particularly nasty child abduction/murder case.

I doubt that, as it was established in 2000 before those murders in 2002.

ORAC, AKA Frontman, AKA Whipping Boy, for Big Corrupt Pharma. This man defends vaccines as if somebody wants to take away his livelihood. Hmm… I wonder if I hit on something here!

The curious thing is that so many doctors, who all studied chemistry and biology as undergrads, have such a poor grasp of science. But for the delivery end of medical care there is a certain element of magic–diagnose patient, apply treatment, patient is cured. For those who don’t really understand how the treatment works, it is all very “woo-ful.” Certainly for most patients the actual experience of it is not far from simple magic. And I think for many doctors it is not fundamentally different–they have a cookbook of sorts that says “use potion X to cure symptom Z,” they follow it, and it works. So for those not naturally scientifically inclined in their approach to the world, their presumably scientific impression can actually reinforce their woo-ful tendencies.

If you don’t breastfeed, your child’s gut flora will be abnormal, and he will likely develop GAPS, which can lead to autism, ADHD, and a variety of other conditions. Females who aren’t breastfed will grow up to be women who have children whose gut flora will be abnormal too, because infants acquire their gut flora mainly from their mother. (How’s that for blaming the mother for autism?)

Blaming the *grandmother* even. It’s quite absurd. Clearly, she’s unaware of research which showed that an infant’s gut flora changes radically several times during the first year of life — regardless of the method of feeding or birth. This is probably mostly because babies stick EVERYTHING in their mouths. Heck, I’m doubtful that breastfeeding is actually a big contributor to gut colonization, because gut bacteria don’t normally live in the breasts (if they do, that’s actually quite a bad thing), and most women shower regularly and then keep their breasts covered, preventing them from getting much more than lint on them. I doubt very much that this is the major route of bacteria entering the child’s gut.

Also, anecdote time (if her anecdote is good, surely she’ll think mine is too?): my mother breastfed me; I breastfed my daughter; my daughter is on the spectrum with attention problems as well. Of course, she does weasel out of cases like that, by saying essentially that insufficient breastfeeding causes autism, except when it doesn’t. Then it’s vaccines, which somehow alter gut flora even in babies which haven’t been vaccinated yet and in vaccines that are delivered subcutaneously rather than orally.

I also wonder what she considers “normal” gut flora. Gut flora in healthy individuals varies quite widely, after all.

Militant Agnostic:

Yes, but they are only a small fraction of the mass of the human body. However, when you are as full of shit as Dr. Campbell-McBride, then gut flora also are the majority of the mass of your body.

ZING!!!! You win the thread.

Sami:

If damage to the digestive tract caused autism, wouldn’t that mean children with coeliac disease would be near-guaranteed to be autistic? An undiagnosed coeliac’s digestive tract can be a ravaged ruin. I know my friend’s was. She was diagnosed at 15, and pre-diagnosis her system was sufficiently ruined that she ate six times what any healthy child could ever force down and was underweight to the point of borderline malnutrition.

Agreed. I’ll add another anecdote: two of my cousins. They’re sisters, raised together in a loving family with nearly identical conditions, except for diet. One of them has celiac sprue, so she never touches gluten. She was diagnosed at 6 months, when she first tried wheat cereal. She was hospitalized for a couple of weeks; it was that bad. Today, she is getting ready to start college, and is a bright, normal girl. Her older sister, who has no problem with wheat, has attention deficit disorder. So they are the opposite of what Dr Campbell-McBride’s “theory” would predict. (I put “theory” in quotes because it doesn’t seem sufficiently well formed, and it’s certainly not adequately tested.)

I can think of a few possible explanations for why celiac disease could nevertheless seem to have a weak correlation to autism and other related disorders. First off, celiac disease makes people uncomfortable and also impairs absorption of nutrients — both of these things will aggravate mild cases of attention problems or other impairments. So perhaps a person with ADHD is more likely to be diagnosed if they have a comorbid diagnosis of celiac disease. It’s not that it’s more common; it’s just more noticable. Second, celiac disease has a very clear-cut genetic basis, and it is strongly heritable. It’s a recessive trait, however, so lots of people carry the gene but do not have celiac disease. Developmental problems can also be heritable. It is not implausible that the genes for one are more common in the same populations that are more likely to have the other through chance alone. It is also possible that the genes relate to one another in some way that has not yet been discovered without either being dependent on the other. But this would not demonstrate that one condition causes the other, any more than having dark skin causes sickle cell anemia; it would merely mean that they run in the same bloodlines. For Campbell-McBride’s claims to hold water, she would need to not only actually study the question (rather than merely assuming in her arrogance that she cannot possibly be wrong) but also rule out these other possibilities.

I doubt very much she’d be interested in doing all that work, though. It’s so much simpler to assume correctness and begin treating patients immediately.

I know someone who’s really into the GAPS diet. Don’t know why, her son is not (AFAIK) autistic.
I’ve posted about her blog before. Here’s a recent article on why people who refuse to “change their food” are not as good as she is: http://movingstronglyforward.typepad.com/moving_strongly_forward/2011/07/the-no-action-problem.html
She seems to obsess about food, trying clay, butter oil and gluten-free and waxing poetic about some paleo diet.

She’s also anti-vax and seems to have a child with so many little ills it seems she ought to have “cured” him by now. She deletes my comments, but has let other dissenters like Lawrence comment.

By the way, she’s going to be lobbying in North Carolina for CAM and she seems quite persuasive. This is my biggest concern.

(@ triskelethecat – Dawn, I think that parents of children with ASDs are focused on these issues because, in the wake of de-institutionalisation, they are often the care-givers, thus responsible for possibly in-communicative, partially untrained older children and young adults: woos pick up on what concerns potential marks. Similarly, issues surrounding the SMI – smoking, drug use, sexuality- were not generally discussed decades ago because they were not living at home in the community- out of sight, out of mind. Plus restrictions were enforcable by others)

A couple of other things here: red flags for me about Dr Campbell-McBride- I would be very wary about anyone who says ” threw me into a large learning curve” and studied nutrition to deal with developmental issues. Actually she sounds like woo-meisters selling diet plans ( non-gluten/ non-casein; supplements) for autism, learning disabilities, and mental illness. Again, they postulate an external cause and relish an external cure, the usual manner of attribution of causality amongst the nutritionism crowd.

Why are they so afraid of an even partially genetic explanation? Do they see it as stigma? This seems to be a general trend in woo-topia: denial of genetic causes to serious physical and mental illnesses as well as ASDs: they have a problem accepting that awful things can occur that are beyond personal control- people can get cancer even if they live in a healthy fashion, people who were never mis-treated can be SMI, and unvaccinated children can have autism. It is not the external toxic world tampering with previous perfection. If these conditions are caused by nutrition, people are able to control them – as least in their own minds.

I’ve spent the past few days reading AoA’s most recent entries and following television coverage of the countdown to World Economic Ragnarok-Gotterdammerung-Apocalypse** and can’t decide which of the two uses the more frightening language ( probably the former). There are some truly complicated acts of “reasoning” illustrated in a few of these articles: if you like that sort of thing, take a peek.

** which btw, seems to have been averted and I’z going to a party!

“So all sort of toxins and microbes flood into the bloodstream of the child and get into the brain of the child.”

Ok, I’m no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems to me that she’s describing a condition that would lead to septic shock, bacterial meningitis or some other serious, physiological crisis. “Developmental stasis” would be the least of a child’s problems, if his/her bloodstream was truly being “flooded” with anaerobic bacteria and (presumably endo-/exo-) toxins.

Thanks for posting this. I first became aware of Campbell-McBride via my sister whose daughter has a number of food sensitivities. Her daughter also has no signs of autism, but she is definitely a big fan of the diet for reasons I can’t quite comprehend. I’ve been hoping more bloggers would shine a light on GAPS and expose the pseudoscience involved.

@Annette Jackson: CITATION NEEDED. Real studies, not AOA’s junk science, please. You can simply post the pubmed information.

Triskelethecat, I personally doubt that “Annette Jackson” is a bona fide AOAer, given the url gratuitously slugged in… I suspect pharma-spammer, myself, though given that there’s no way I’m going to visit a web site named after an abusable drug while at work I have no way to confirm my suspicions.

Should “Annette” not be a ‘bot/spammer, though, I second the request for legitimate citations to back up these otherwise-unsupported assertions.

— Steve

Calli Arcale,

Heck, I’m doubtful that breastfeeding is actually a big contributor to gut colonization, because gut bacteria don’t normally live in the breasts (if they do, that’s actually quite a bad thing), and most women shower regularly and then keep their breasts covered, preventing them from getting much more than lint on them. I doubt very much that this is the major route of bacteria entering the child’s gut.

You ignoramus. This is what’s going to happen when we let uneducated people like you talk about immunology. Everything will be pure BS. Please, please, please read about what naturally acquired passive immunity is and take note of what is essentially being provided to the infant.

This thread is going to end soon.

Denice:

they have a problem accepting that awful things can occur that are beyond personal control

This is a common thread in vaccine denial, religion, 9/11 denial and many other forms of woo: the refusal to accept that sh*t happens. Keep it in mind next time you hear something loopy; odds are it can be reduced to exactly that.

When you hear augie wax poetic about black helicopters or Thingy assure us that our children will not get sick if we just make sure they don’t play in public, that’s exactly what is going on: they cannot, will not accept that sh*t happens. It makes them uncomfortable. They cannot handle it. Everything else follows from that, ending in mysanthropic paranoia and pathological cognitive dissonance. Keep it in mind.

Thingy:

This is what’s going to happen when we let uneducated people like you talk about immunology.

That just made my irony meter go supernova, sweetheart. I’ll now go ponder that while taking a cigarette intravenously.

This thread is going to end soon.

Your arrogance is outdone only by your ignorance.

At the risk of legitimising Our Lady of the Snot Armour by addressing him/her/it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_immunity#Naturally_acquired_passive_immunity

Link generated in seconds by a simple Wikipedia search… Note the incredibly-limited range of immunities listed in that article that can be transferred via lactation, and how the article stresses the importance of post-natal inocculations to cover the gaps. That’s because the authours don’t fixate on any One True Cause for illness but rather look at all the evidence and acknowledge that the human body is a very, very complex assembly with many complementary (or even redundant, sometimes) parts.

And now back to ignoring RI’s weak substitute for an Archimedes Plutonium. (They just don’t make cranks like they used to…)

— Steve

News! It was true!

‎”Hester-Perez attributes dramatic improvements in her son’s behavior and overall health to the addition of cannabis to his treatment. Approximately 10 other autistic persons have seen improvements since augmenting their therapy with cannabis within UF4A’s case studies. She hopes this will form the basis for official academic research in the future.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cannabis-science-reaches-final-partnership-structure-with-unconventional-foundation-for-autism-uf4a-2011-08-01

Yoga fix dyspraxia.

D’Arcy,

I have a nephew with some developmental disabilities, and part of what his parents are doing to help him is Dungeons and Dragons: it’s the right kind of structured narrative to help him grasp narrative/story better.

Dear Thingy, passive immunization from breast milk happens via antibodies. Gut colonizations happens via life bacteria. Please take remedial biology at your local CC and come back next year.

@Vicki and Calli

Good to hear others finding the benefits of RPGs. They’re great for developing the imagination and honing problem-solving skills. Just don’t let any hyper-fundamentalist types hear that you’re into them. They are, after all, tools of the devil.

I’m surprised that no one said this yet: Dr. Campbell-McBride appears to have some GAPS in her education. (Thank you. I’m here all week.)

@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Failure to Thrive (FTT) is actually a known medical diagnosis. Basically, baby is not gaining weight appropriately, and the doctor thinks, What the hell is going on? FTT leads to a bunch of “rule-out” diagnoses.

The doctor starts to play detective – is the baby getting enough calories? Is the baby allergic to the formula/something in the breastmilk? Does the baby have some rare disease that doesn’t allow him/her to digest food properly? Is the baby vomiting his/her meals?

FTT is a “garbage can” diagnosis used until the baby has a definitive diagnosis…if one can be found. I have friends whose 3 year old child STILL has a diagnosis of FTT. Child won’t eat, and it’s very hard to give a growing child sufficient calories via tube feedings. Child weighs about 18 lbs (at age 3, should be 30 lbs or so)

@Todd #45
No fair going after such low hanging fruit.

Also, Interesting ideas on RPGs. IIRC, there were some that let you create characters online – fun for the creative visual learners. My kids are grown so my info is sadly out of date but that concept cannot have wholly disappeared.

Stu — I used to be a dungeon master. I still have the dice and the books and everything. I tried Magic: the Gathering, but it didn’t really sustain my interest as well. CalliBaby 1.0 loves Pokemon, but only collecting them, drawing them, watching them on TV, and such. She doesn’t actually enjoy the game much. She will play a modified version that she invented herself, but part of the rules involves just letting Ada tell you what has happened and who is winning each match. I’m going to try D&D with her sometime. If that fails, and she needs something more visual, we can move to Neverwinter Nights, which I used to spend a lot of hours on. 😉

It’s true, Campbell-McBride seems overly certain of her theory despite a paucity of evidence. But Orac’s arguments don’t convince me that there is ZERO truth to what she says. In fact, many scientists around the world are hard at work looking for some kind of environmental contributor to autism (in addition to the genetic link).

So here’s another theoretical possibility that would render both Campbell-McBride and Orac partially right: that there is a disorder called autism that has nothing to do with gut function… but that there is another sub-group of kids with gut bacteria problems who behave as if they have autism. It’s as if there could be two different problems that are currently being conflated into one diagnosis. Several 2011 studies support the fact that gut bacteria can profoundly affect mental functioning, at least in mice. More studies will sort this out over the next few years, as gut bacteria is a very hot topic of research.

Autism is currently diagnosed based on observable behavior (communication, socialization…) rather than biology, so if there were indeed two types of kids called autistic (one with gut bacteria problems and one without), clinicians would need to update the diagnostic criteria to reflect the distinction.

Thanks, Orac, for keeping this dialogue going.

-KC, the Intestinal Gardener

The curious thing is that so many doctors, who all studied chemistry and biology as undergrads, have such a poor grasp of science.

I TAed a college biochem course for pre-med folk at a reasonably prestigious institution. The degree to which they actually studied the material… varied. It’s definitely a box-checking exercise for a certain subset.

Recently research in Scandinavia has demonstrated that 90% of all cells and all genetic material in a human body is our own gut flora.

“Recent research”? I think this has been known for decades. Sounds like Dr. Campbell-McBride has succumbed to the common illusion that ‘things did not happen until I personally heard of them’.

Further evidence for this theory:

It was a very rare disorder. Even I as a medical graduate have never seen an autistic patient. By the time I graduated from my medical school I have never an autistic individual.

So she only starts noticing autism when she moves out of a social environment where families found ways of institutionalising any embarrassingly-different children, and deduces that it is only just appeared.

there is evidence that breastfed babies have a lower incidence of autism
Breastfed babies also have a lower rate of Down’s Syndrome but this is not because lack of breastfeeding causes DS.
————————————–
Whipping Boy, for Big Corrupt Pharma
Victor, you might want to learn the meaning and proper use of common English idioms like “whipping boy”, and then get back to us.

Mu,

Dear Thingy, passive immunization from breast milk happens via antibodies. Gut colonizations happens via life bacteria. Please take remedial biology at your local CC and come back next year.

Dangit! You beat me to it. I should spend more time here during the day rather than working =P

I firmly believe that RPGs and college politics of the “we’ll have the world fixed in a week, two tops” variety vastly improved my social skills and allowed me to function normally in society. I never touched such mainstream stuff as dungeons and dragons though. I went straight for Ars Magica and purely locally invented RPGs (one of which was eventually sold by the GM to Steve Jackson Games and became a GURPS variant. I still think the original concept was better than what the final SJ version.)

So I find the idea of RPG therapy delightful. Where do I sign up? And if I claim it’s therapy for Asperger’s, will my insurance pay for the pizza?

Dr. Campbell-Mcbride states,

“DC: It was 1 in 10,000 when I graduated. It was a very rare disorder. Even I as a medical graduate have never seen an autistic patient. By the time I graduated from my medical school I have never an autistic individual. I have seen other psychiatric conditions through my course in psychiatry but have never seen an autistic child. To be honest, the first autistic child that I have encountered was my own.”

So, I was wondering what her (limited) medical specialty was in Russia, that would preclude her from ever seeing an autistic person, prior to having her son?

So, I “visited” her website and came across this gem:

“After practicing for five years as a neurologist and three years as a neurosurgeon, she started a family and moved to the U.K.”

It seems that there is a huge disconnect between what is posted on her website and her statement on the video. And, no I’m not willing to give her a “pass” based on the logical fallacy of autism not being on her radar until her child was diagnosed with autism.

BTW, Dr. Campbell McBride is “franchising” her woo. On her website (www.gaps.me) is her upcoming U.S.A. schedule for classes to become a “USA Certified GAPs ™ Practitioner”. The cost for the two day training seminar is $1,175 which includes lunches, training materials and a “business starter package”. Note here, the good doctor will only provide patient (marks) referrals to “USA Certified GAPs ™ Practitioners”.

The GMC website does not show that Dr. Campbell-McBride has ever been licensed to practice medicine in the UK. She is probably a former physician now working as a nutritionist, but using the title “Dr.” because she does have that medical degree.

On the tangent, I will also give a parental testimonial for the efficacy of RPG therapy (Final Fantasy highly recommended)and Collectible Card Game therapy for ASD. Also for FPS therapy (Half-Life 2 highly recommended) as beneficial to parents.

Just a quick thank you from another autism parent; I really appreciate these autism-related posts and learn a lot from them. It’s great to have someone keeping an eye out for the quackery, and being bold enough and informed enough to place such people under public scrutiny.

Just a quick thank you from another autism parent; I really appreciate these autism-related posts and learn a lot from them. It’s great to have someone keeping an eye out for the quackery, and being bold enough and informed enough to place such people under public scrutiny.

I got called a fuck head on my blog recently for immunising my son. A child who was ASD the day he was born. And was breast fed. And had no reaction to any of his shots. I wish these quacks would crawl in a hole.

What’s interesting here is that she takes two factual statements and tries to link them using total bullshit. It’s true that breastfed babies have different gut flora than bottlefed babies and it’s also true that there is a (very) minor difference in autism prevalence between those two groups*. So Campbell McBride desperately tries to link them, saying “different gut flora leads to, um, something… toxins! yes, ‘toxins’ that’s what it is! And that causes autism!” It feels as if she made the “toxins” thing up on the spot.

*Nevermind all of the confounding factors when comparing women who breastfeed and women who bottlefeed. Surely she can’t believe that there’s no systematic differences between the demographics of these two groups that could much more easily account for the difference in autism prevalence?? She must have skipped every journal club in medical school and residency because she is sorely uneducated in how the medical literature should be read.

Great blog.

But I have to ask about “By 2002, breastfeeding prevalence had reached an all-time high.” Surely, until the mid 20th century or thereabouts, nearly all babies were breast fed? We just didn’t have breast-milk substitutes until then. I think you must mean “its highest level since the 1960s” or something…

Surely, until the mid 20th century or thereabouts, nearly all babies were breast fed? We just didn’t have breast-milk substitutes until then.

Well they _did_ substitute, just not appropriately.

A curious fact: formula was not developed as an alternative to breastfeeding, but as a better substitute than what people were using instead of breastfeeding, like cow’s milk or weaning at 2 weeks.

IOW, people were already not breastfeeding long before formula came along, and formula was developed to make that healthier.

Oh!

I forgot to add.

Rise in Autism cases throughout the world – “coincidence”

I have learnt so much already!

Liz Ditz:

*and difficulties with writing, especially in grades k-8. Calli Arcale, and anybody else whose children are having difficulty with written language, feel free to email me for some perspectives, tips and tricks.

Thanks for the offer, but this is actually something CalliBaby 1.0 doesn’t have problems with. She’s an excellent reader, even managing some surprisingly difficult words. Her progress has slowed recently, and now she is only a grade ahead of her peers. 😉 (She’s plateauing because of convergence insufficiency and difficulty tracking accurately. She has begun vision therapy to correct that problem.)

Marry Me, Mindy:

A curious fact: formula was not developed as an alternative to breastfeeding, but as a better substitute than what people were using instead of breastfeeding, like cow’s milk or weaning at 2 weeks.

And it goes waaaaaaay back. In medieval times, peasant women would earn extra income as a wet nurse. Their own child would get to nurse second if lucky, and if not lucky, would be getting animal milk and then get weaned early. It undoubtedly happened in antiquity as well, since the Romans had an elaborate mythology built up around Romulus and Remus, the twins reared by a female wolf. There are many famous depictions of the twin boys suckling off of the wolf.

Augie,

Since you’ve had more exposure to this person than the rest of us, could you share what convinced you that what she says is true? Because what I’ve seen quoted so far is not convincing. Were those mothers imagining things? Perhaps. I can’t say without evidence. I cannot even say if *I* am imagining things without evidence.

It is true that food can be mild and it can be potent, and it can be medicinal. This does not mean it is effective in treating autism or gut issues; you have to look at claims individually. For instance, we know that aspirin can be a mild or even potent medicine. This doesn’t mean it cures autism either; you’d have to evaluate the claim independently.

that is critical in healing so many disorders

That is precisely why why commenters are skeptical about Dr. Campbell-McBride’s claims. If someone claims that their treatment will cure everything then they’re probably a fraud.
When they proceed to tie in with anti-vaccination fears, not for reasons arising from their theory but purely to increase market share, then they’re certainly fraudulent.

Then there are her questionable observational skills. As lilady has pointed out in an earlier comment, Campbell-McBride reckons she never saw anyone with autism during her career as a Russian neurologist, which makes her either wilfully blind or hopelessly incompetent. Or the career is an invention.

@ Stoner Jesus: Hi Jacob!

Point 1: My son Viktor was born in 2007 March.

Point 2: He was diagnosed with autistic disorder in May this year, given an educational label of ASD in June 2010 at the age of 3 years and three months. Began Early Intervention just after turning 2 and a half.

Point 3: From day one he was much more challenging then ANY of my other kids, even the ones who were challenging (E.g. sleep issues, eating issues, tactile issues, etc.)

Point 4: I breastfed Viktor until he was almost 2 and a half and stopped only because I was trying to get him to say “nurse please” when he wanted to nurse. I didn’t know yet he had autism and thought the lack of talking as stubbornness on his part.

Point 5: He didn’t get vaccinated until well after his symptoms were established, yet he had regression similar to those children whose parents are claiming vaccine injury.

Point 6: I was under the impression, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that gut flora wasn’t something we created, but came from what we ingested in certain foods we eat, or other things we are exposed to? From my understanding, the gut of a baby prior to being born is completely microbe free, sterile. It isn’t until the child is born that the exposure to those beneficial as well as harmful microbes happens.

I wasn’t able to listen to the entire interview w/Mercola, it was just too irritatingly nauseating that another medical doctor has been seduced by the ‘dark side’. I suppose the money aspect of quackery is very seductive. I mean, as long as you claim your particular branch of woo is ‘alternative or integrative medicine’ there really aren’t any checks and balances you have to adhere to like real, competent doctors have. How long did the Geiers continue their quackery before they finally were stopped? (BTW, did you know that Geier is a German word for vulture?)

On the web site shotofprevention.com, they are promoting vaccination awareness month. Everything real you ever wanted to know about vaccines and disease prevention… I’d recommend a perusal.

Oh noes, Orac is deleting comments to suppress alternative evidence!

Actually, come to think of it, the evidence that Jacob is a borderline-personality plonker and a general waste of space is not actually that ‘alternative’.

@ Sid Offal: However did you come up with that posting? Anyone with an elementary education in science, indeed anyone at a 3rd grade reading comprehension level, knows that Orac never stated that genetic disorders and diseases are “changeable”.

We expect a little more from you Offal…after all you are a blog journalist, aren’t you? Only yellow journalists do cut and paste jobs and use Wiki as their reference…and the best of them do a better cut and paste job with more sciency gibberish commentary than your pathetic attempt.

Ok, I’m confused.

If inadequate or improper gut flora leads to autism, why are kids not being diagnosed with failure to thrive in the same numbers as they are being diagnosed with autism? Gut flora are involved with our ability to receive proper nutrition, no? They produce vitamins and hormones, IIRC – all quite necessary.

All those people who flock to AoA go on about how their kids were absolutely normal until vaccines or what have you. My girlfriend with 2 autistic boys says hers were normally healthy and met milestones until about 18 mos, when they backslid and were diagnosed (no, she doesn’t blame vaccines).

So how is it they were healthy if they had such wretched gut flora?

Yes, Lilady, you did. 🙂 I thought you were wrong, and the evidence has shown us where the truth lies.

I practice what I preach – that a scientist must be able to admit their errors – and I have no problem doing just that.

@lillady

Thanks honey, for at least trying to contribute to the conversation. I guess I’ll take your post to mean you don’t think autism is genetic anymore?

Anyone with an elementary education in science, indeed anyone at a 3rd grade reading comprehension level, blah, blah blah, blah…

Alas m’lady, the government school have failed me.

Hitting the “English” button on the right side of the university web page to change the (cyrillic?) language to English I attempted to locate an alumni web page…this is none.

You would need to look under her unmarried name anyway so this is a dead end.

Further research reveals that Dr. Campbell-McBride is a darling of right-wing bloggers of the talivangelist / Dominationist variety, because she was canny enough to include the contraceptive pill as another factor disrupting the natural gut biota. So as part of their campaign to impose their own variety of Sharia law, the moral hard-liners can now claim that it’s the pill causing the “autism epidemic”. As well as vaccines.

@ Herr Doktor Bimler: The good doctor is certainly broadening her base. If I were selling supplements and hawking books that are totally devoid of any scientific knowledge and full of bogus “theories”, I would probably would be looking for some additional gullible chumps as well. Now what voting bloc would I look for?

It is only a matter of time until she hooks on to the “latex allergy theory” as well. Those nasty plungers in syringes and the wrapping that keep syringes sterile cause autism. Promoting birth control by barrier methods (condoms, diaphragms) is “promoting autism” There must be something in spermicidal gel that gets into the bloodstream that changes a woman’s gut flora and all that abnormal gut flora is passed to the fetus and damages the fetus resulting in the “autism epidemic”.

If we crush the birth control “movement” and insist that people have large families thus increasing the birth cohort by 20%, 30%, 40 % or more we would also increase the numbers of infants who are eventually diagnosed on the autism spectrum. There that should fix ’em (all those who deny that there is an “autism epidemic”).

lilady of ignorance

It is only a matter of time until she hooks on to the “latex allergy theory” as well.

No,no,no! Get it right. It’s the charred shrink wrap allergy.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2011/07/29/charred-shrink-wrap-in-merck-vaccines-read-the-fda-inspection-reports/

Beamup, and at least two others have the same author of the Med. Hyp. paper, are in low end journals, are older, and really are reaching… I would say that Kingfillins is cherry picking.

Speaking of cherry picking: there are still plenty in the stores. Munching a few is a great way to massage those intestines!

Beamup there are 8 links to investigate at and you can only discount one?
I collected these references in a 5 minute search.
“Anybody who cites it isn’t worth listening to at all.” What are you trying to defend? Science? Thesis is where science begins, but what the journal isn’t up to par? The question is, is this thesis supported… surely?.

How about addressing the topic, rather than making excuses when this blogs “woo” claim is obviously premature and not even validated by science itself.

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_3-6-2010-11-17-32

http://genomemedicine.com/content/3/3/14

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/Supplement_1/S1.abstract

Balzola F et al . “Autistic enterocolitis: confirmation of a new inflammatory bowel disease in an Italian cohort of patients.” Gastroenterology 2005;128(Suppl. 2);A-303.

Ashwood, P., Anthony, A., Pellicer, A.A., et al. 2003. Intestinal lymphocyte populations in children with regressive autism: evidence for extensive mucosal immunopathology. Journal of Clinical Immunology, 23:504- 517.

Balzola, F., Barbon V., Repici, A., Rizzetto, M., Clauser, D., Gandione, M., and Sapino, A. Panenteric IBD-like disease in a patient with regressive autism shown for the first time by wireless capsule enteroscopy: Another piece in the jig-saw of the gut-brain syndrome American Journal of Gastroenterology, 2005. 100(4): p. 979- 981.

It stands to reason a good diet high in flora promoting hole foods will help gastro conditions. But you cant patent a diet.

“As in political revolutions, so in paradigm choice—there is no standard higher than the assent of the relevant community. To discover how sc… – MORE As in political revolutions, so in paradigm choice—there is no standard higher than the assent of the relevant community. To discover how scientific revolutions are effected, we shall therefore have to examine not only the impact of nature and of logic, but also the techniques of persuasive argumentation effective within the quite special groups that constitute the community of scientists.”
Thomas S. Kuhn

Human beings do not need peer reviewed validation to be respected. In fact the peer review proses cant even be fully trusted. Please refer to Richard Horton, editor of the The Lancet’s views on this.

Beamup there are 8 links to investigate at and you can only discount one?
I collected these references in a 5 minute search.

Oh, I’m sure I could disassemble the others if needed. But as soon as MH is cited you become a laughingstock and make it clear that your level of understanding is so low that, if the cites actually supported the claim, it would be only by chance.

I did actually go ahead and take a look at the other abstracts. Not a one of them addresses Campbell-McBride’s claims. That would be a randomized study where the special diet was applied and found to produce greater benefits than control.

Thesis is where science begins, but what the journal isn’t up to par? The question is, is this thesis supported… surely?

MH isn’t “not up to par.” It’s not even a journal in any meaningful sense since it’s not peer-reviewed. It’ll accept any idiocy, so long as it’s provocative. Publishing in MH proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the work is meaningless (or it would be in a real journal). CITING MH proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the citer either has no clue what they’re talking about, or does have a clue but can’t produce any REAL evidence.

Beamup
Pubmed supports Med Hypotheses, if it was still as bad as you suggest, they would not. The point is that paper is advanced by other work. To suggest it has no merits would be premature, regardless of where it is published. If you can possibly look past the publishing source, please supply data that contradicts this thesis and all the others.

Chris
If Dr. Campbell-McBride cured her son of Autism using her dietary methods, ie she studied her son, found that he had gastrointestinal issues etc, and used diet etc, to cure this condition… with the side effect being that she cured his Autism. this would SUGGEST that she removed the source of her childs disease. The studies I provide scientifically recognise what she herself did, that gastrointestinal issues are prevalent amongst children with Autism.
This woman is not just a Mum. She is a doctor, trained in Neurology etc.

“But you still have not established that Dr. Campbell-McBride’s dietary beliefs are valid.”

My purpose is to highlight the classic Witch Hunt mentality found here by showing the considerable background of science around this topic that does indeed lean towards supporting her work, and that is undeniable. However yes until her methods are scientifically trialed, her own clinical methods are what we presently have.

She deserves credit, not condemnation.

Cherry picking? If this is so please provide me with such evidence.

Where am I ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict my assertions?

PubMed is not necessarily a mark of a good journal. They also have journals that specialize in homeopathy.

Take note that your cite of “Ashwood, P., Anthony, A., Pellicer, A.A., et al. 2003”, that one of the “et al.” is “Wakefield AJ”. So we can assume that there is some kind of fraud associated with this paper.

“Gastroenterology. 2005:128 (Suppl 2);Abstract-303” is a meeting abstract and was never a real paper. It was case studies of adults. And “Gastroenterology, 2005. 100(4): p. 979-981.” is a case report of one adult.

And yes, I know where you got that “research.” If you clicked on the link I included in my previous comment you will see that we are all to familiar with that list.

The Buie paper is how to deal autistic patients and points to future research. I also believe you have not read it, here is the full paper. Read it and tell us exactly how it supports Dr. Campbell-McBride. Show us exactly which paragraph supports her dietary interventions.

I am also curious why you think medical research from “Chemical and Materials Engineering” department would be enlightening.

If Dr. Campbell-McBride cured her son of Autism using her dietary methods,

Really? How do you know? Do we have third party confirmation? Amy Lansky also claims to have cured her son’s autism with homeopathy. Except he was never formally diagnosed with autism, she diagnosed him through her “expertise” from her PhD in computer science.

Here are some more studies you should have included in your list:
Pediatrics. 2009 Aug;124(2):680-6. Epub 2009 Jul 27.
Incidence of gastrointestinal symptoms in children with autism: a population-based study.
Ibrahim SH, Voigt RG, Katusic SK, Weaver AL, Barbaresi WJ.

Autism. 2009 Jul;13(4):343-55.
Are there more bowel symptoms in children with autism compared to normal children and children with other developmental and neurological disorders?: A case control study.
Smith RA, Farnworth H, Wright B, Allgar V.

PLoS One. 2008 Sep 4;3(9):e3140.
Lack of association between measles virus vaccine and autism with enteropathy: a case-control study.
Hornig M, Briese T, Buie T, Bauman ML, Lauwers G, Siemetzki U, Hummel K, Rota PA, Bellini WJ, O’Leary JJ, Sheils O, Alden E, Pickering L, Lipkin WI.

Acta Paediatr. 2007 Jul;96(7):1076-9. Epub 2007 Apr 27.
No evidence for a clear link between active intestinal inflammation and autism based on analyses of faecal calprotectin and rectal nitric oxide.
Fernell E, Fagerberg UL, Hellström PM.

Autism. 2003 Jun;7(2):165-71.
Prevalence of chronic gastrointestinal symptoms in children with autism and autistic spectrum disorders.
Molloy CA, Manning-Courtney P.

Curr Opin Pediatr. 2003 Jun;15(3):339-43.
How common are gastrointestinal disorders in children with autism?
Kuddo T, Nelson KB.

BMJ. 2002 Aug 24;325(7361):419-21.
Relation of childhood gastrointestinal disorders to autism: nested case-control study using data from the UK General Practice Research Database.
Black C, Kaye JA, Jick H.

BMJ. 2002 Feb 16;324(7334):393-6.
Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and bowel problems or developmental regression in children with autism: population study.
Taylor B, Miller E, Lingam R, Andrews N, Simmons A, Stowe J.

Campbell-McBride claims to have discovered a new treatment for, well, almost everything it seems. Instead of carrying out and publishing peer reviewed research she has set up a clinic in her home (or so it would appear) and charges people for the treatment – remember this is in the UK where the NHS provides medical treatment free of charge. This does not seem to me to be a professional way to behave. Even if she is right in her claims (which seems unlikely), we will never know, as all this will do is generate a stream of anecdotes.

@ Krebiozen: Your points are very valid…I had forgotten about the NHS which provides treatments free of charge…that is not even limited to “traditional medicine”. I believe the NHS covers homeopathy treatments as well.

I first questioned her “credentials” as a doctor trained in Russia at postings above when she clearly claimed on her internet site that after years of practice in her specialty (neurology) she never had seen a case of a person with autism. Another poster checked the GMC registry and confirmed that she hadn’t even applied to be licensed as a doctor, once she relocated to the U.K.

I viewed the GMC website to determine how a foreign educated doctor applies for licensure. There are two types of licenses issued:

Provisional License: for those educated outside the EU who have not yet completed an acceptable internship.

Full Registration as a doctor: For those educated outside the EU who have completed an acceptable internship.

Remember now, she claims to have completed her full internship and practiced in Russia for a number of years as a (full-fledged) neurologist.

BTW, the British Medical Journal recently published the results of a survey that queried doctors about the growing problem of unqualified people using the title of medical doctor.

She has a “believability” problem displayed by her ignorance of the basics of human physiology and now another “red flag”…a “practice” that charges patients for treatments that are covered by the NHS.

I am quite willing to believe that there’s no point in applying in the UK to have one’s qualifications as a neurologist / neurosurgeon recognised, when being a self-proclaimed nutritionist makes so much more money.

@herr doktor bimler

I’m at home so I can’t read the papers, but the sequencing technology has improved and its quite possible that the use of 454 sequencing the Desulfivibrio paper has allowed for detection of stuff the previous method did not. If I remember I’ll take a look monday when I can see the paper and look at the technical details. This still doesn’t mean he’s “finally” right or anything, but the general concept of “they were wrong once so why assume they’re not wrong this time” seems to be a variant of the “SBM was was before” gambit we see from anti-vaccine people.

lilady
“There are no “cures” for autism…only “cures” for kids who are misdiagnosed as autistic and who eventually catch up with interventional therapies…and those therapies do not include treating/removing “toxins” from the gut.

Where did you read that? Wikipedia”?

ADD/ADHD are other conditions that she claims to “cure”…another total fabrication on her part.”

You make these assertions based on what?

In fact everything you have written is an opinion.

You are saying that Dr. Campbell-McBride is lying with no evidence to support your statement. Cure would be at one end of a spectrum of any treatment that works. If she has treated a clinically diagnosed child, and finds it is cured, then why would she not say such? Why should she assume that because the child was cured it must mean that the child never had the disease? Clearly her diet would be excellent for any person sick or well, and would offer support for a gut that was diseased in any way. (Any stress related condition will cause gut problems, it stands to reason that Autism etc will effect the gut of a child).

Also “cure” means what? There are absolutely no symptoms? Or the person is able to live a basically normal life?
Definition – Cure = Something that corrects or relieves a harmful or disturbing situation.
Restoration of health; recovery from disease.
So if she find her patients have recovery, or are relieved, then she has helped a cure take place.

Healing methods are always based on “current understanding.”
One must understand before one can heal. Mainstream medicine is only as effective as its understanding and why it is often so infective, especially in diseases where its limited understanding prevents (via prescribing masking drugs)it from correcting simple disorders early on, before they become conic.

We can surely cheer for contemporary medicines ability to mask symptoms…and surgically remove parts, these are fantastic achievements, however it is clearly starting to recognise the wisdom of a naturapathic approach to healing and understanding the human being as a whole.

PS “Dyslexia and dyspraxia are developmental disabilities that can be remediated somewhat, never “cured” by removing toxins or going “natural” in dietary choices”.

You know that your statement would be called “Woo” if I posted it here.

@Kingfillins,
Campbell-McBride has made claims that are not only unsupported by scientific evidence, but also contradict current understanding and evidence. Instead of involving herself with scientific research, and finding out by careful controlled studies if her methods actually have any benefit, she charges £100 an hour for her unproven treatments. We, and Campbell-McBride, have no idea if her patients would have improved just as much without her treatment. The only way to find that out is by doing controlled clinical trials.

Clearly her diet would be excellent for any person sick or well

It’s certainly not clear to me. Why is her diet “clearly excellent” for anyone? because she claims that it helps people? Where is the evidence for this? How do we know she isn’t making this up to make money or, more likely, is deceiving herself? We know that humans are very good at deceiving themselves in this area.

One must understand before one can heal.

You don’t get to understand anything by making up some theory about diet curing autism and ADHD and then charging people for it without a shred of scientific evidence that it works. That is called charlatanism, or quackery.

contemporary medicine…is clearly starting to recognise the wisdom of a naturapathic approach to healing and understanding the human being as a whole.

Again, who is this clear to? It seems clear to me that naturopathy is nonsense. It takes a bunch of alternative and conventional ideas, some of them mutually contradictory, and throws them together into a horrible mess.

You know that your statement would be called “Woo” if I posted it here.

In what way is Lilady’s statement woo? Perhaps you misunderstand her. Everything she wrote seems perfectly sensible to me, which is more than I can say about what you wrote.

lilady I have supported my posts with science. You may criticize these, however you are not siting any valid science based evidence to contradict my assertions.

Dr.Campbell-McBride has studied mainstream medicine. She is not a Naturapath. Her reasoning is very much backed by science.

However with no medical training at all, common sense would lead one to recognise that anatomy and physiology are supported by nutrients that are ingested. This process starts in the mouth. Nutrients are only of use if the body can assimilate them. If the body cannot assimilate, or has an allergic reaction to the nutrients, or has a toxic interruption etc, deficiencies occur.

Common sense knows that a hungry child cannot concentrate and study and a malnourished child will become delirious. The link between the gut and the brain (and every other part of the body)is so plainly obvious.

However as this is a “science blog” here is some science…

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/86/8639cover.html
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0710480 etc

ScienceDaily (Sep. 30, 2008) — Researchers are reporting that new insights into the composition of human breast milk may lead to new ways to prevent and treat stomach illnesses and other diseases in babies and adults.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=gut-second-brain

(Please make comment on these, they directly contradict your assertions about Dr Cambell-McBride)

“Your only “source” for your statements are Campbell-McBride who in turn has never published any of her research.”

I have posted numerous articles that supports her work.

Why does Dr. Cambell Mcbride need to publish her methods for it to work? She is a practicing doctor. Are people benefiting from this?
I am suggesting that her methods should be studied. Maybe she is preparing a study after developing the method.
Surely these are the questions to ask. Rather than vilifying her.
Some interesting related info…

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110430171122.htm

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_3-6-2010-11-17-32

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0028224387901407

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0689/is_3_56/ai_n27182979/

Science is supposed to be healthy skepticism.

Common sense knows that a hungry child cannot concentrate and study and a malnourished child will become delirious. The link between the gut and the brain (and every other part of the body)is so plainly obvious.

Which has about as much resemblance to Campbell-McBride’s claims as the observation that dropped rocks fall down have to a perpetual motion machine. A general observation that “nutrition is important” does not in any way, shape, or form provide support for a claim that a specific diet has specific effects including curing autism.

I have posted numerous articles that supports her work.

You haven’t posted a single article which supports her work in any way. Again, general observations like “gut flora have effects” do not support AT ALL the sort of claims she’s making!

Why does Dr. Cambell Mcbride need to publish her methods for it to work?

Because if they’re not published they can’t be examined and tested, so we don’t KNOW if they work. And if she hasn’t done the science to allow publication in a journal, neither does she.

She is a practicing doctor. Are people benefiting from this?

No way to know since she refuses to do the science.

I am suggesting that her methods should be studied. Maybe she is preparing a study after developing the method.

Without the study, there is no way for ANYONE to know the method has any validity! Cart? Horse?

Science is supposed to be healthy skepticism

Then why do you advocate mindlessly accepting what some random person says, without any support whatsoever, simply because she happens to have a “Dr” in front of her name?

Militant Agnostic: “She is not a practicing doctor. She is not qualified to practice medicine in the UK where she has her business.”

Sadly, whilst I despise the woman’s lack of ethics and science, we do not actually have any proof that she is not a practicing medical practitioner: the GMC website has a list of Registered Medical Practitioners, and she cannot be found through this application. When I tried to find her name on the register, this is what the site told me:

“Sorry but we cannot find a record that matches your search.

This does not mean the doctor you are looking for is not registered; there may simply be a problem with the name, or the GMC reference number, or the doctor’s details may have been temporarily excluded while we update them.”

So, having obtained her qualification in Russia, she may have been able to get registration in the UK and may indeed not be using the name she is registered under… but this is not a wise choice for a medical practitioner, so – assuming she has at least the sense to not do that – it’s certainly questionable as to she is registered and licensed to practice medicine; and the truth is that she could be doing a BabyGeier and practising without a licence!

Kinda scary where this train of logic could take us!

Krebiozen “What if her “study” shows that her methods don’t really work? Will she return all the money she has been paid?”

If she is finding that her her method really does work, ie peoples conditions are cured or improved, who would want there money back?

Hilarious!!
You are saying this in the face of the fact that “Science based medicine” has an appallingly low rate of working.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/steve-connor-most-drugs-dont-work-on-most-people-ndash-for-now-1913663.html

Will these corporations be giving back all the money they have stolen?

The witch hunt continues beyond the realms of scientific inquiry.

Now it is clear to me that this blog is not about science at all its about ignoring science that doesn’t fit the picture.

So many posts and so little evidence to support your claims.

You are saying this in the face of the fact that “Science based medicine” has an appallingly low rate of working.

That has nothing to do with Dr. Campbell-McBride’s claims. Finding fault in something else does not exonerate your pet treatment.

Repeating the links you posted earlier still does not prove your contentions. And really, the breast feeding bit is still a case of blaming the mother. Now try reading what Orac wrote, like this part:

Of course, listening to Dr. Campbell-McBride’s claims, I had to ask one thing: Where’s the evidence? Surely, such a hypothesis should be easy to test. For instance, if it were true, wouldn’t bottle fed babies be far more likely to develop autism than breastfed babies? The problem is, this doesn’t appear to be so.

OVERLOOKED…

“The gastrointestinal tract and its associated mucosal immune system have been extensively studied in the context of their involvement in disease processes, both within the tract itself and in its associated organs. However, historically a number of aspects of both gastrointestinal physiology and pathophysiology have been to some extent overlooked. In particular, the relationship of the gastrointestinal tract with its indigenous microbiota, and also the influence of the tract on behavior and neural systems and vice versa. Here, we describe recent advances in our knowledge and understanding of these areas, and attempt to put these advances in perspective with regard to potential therapeutic strategies.

Over the last five years, molecular geneticists have started to map the human microbiome.109 The majority of these bacteria are obligate anerobes and unculturable. With the advent of large scale microbiomics this biology is beginning to become unravelled,7,8 and with this, a greater understanding of the role of the microbiota in health and disease is emerging.”

http://www.pagepress.org/journals/index.php/gi/article/view/gi.2009.e3/1461

Chris

So?

So use your own faculties for comprehension.

So try joining the dots that are blatantly obvious.

Her diet aims at correcting gut disorders with PRO-BIOTICS.
ie Pro-life, as opposed to a denatured ANTI-BIOTIC (anti-life) diet. She is selling a good diet knowing that this pro biotic diet will help heal the gut and thus help neurological and other bodily functions.

“Clinical Effects of Probiotics…in Very Young Children with Atopic Dermatitis” by S. L. Prescott et al., Clin Exp Allergy, 12/05 “Evidence of Probiotics in Prevention of Allergy and Asthma” by B. Bjorksten, Curr Drug Targets Inflamm Allergy, 10/05 “Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Probiotics: From Rationale to Clinical Use” by E. F. Verdu and S. M. Collins, Curr Opin Gastroenterol, 11/05 “The Mechanism of Action of Probiotics” by Sonia Michail, MD, Practical Gastroenterology, 5/05 “Probiotics as Functional Foods” by D. C. Lin, Nutr Clin Pract, 12/03 “Treatment of Acute Infectious Diarrhea in Infants and Children with a Mixture of Three Lactobacillus rhamnosus Strains…” by H. Szymanski et al., Aliment Pharmacol Ther, 1/06 User’s Guide to Probiotics by Earl Mindell, RPh, PhD(Basic Health, 2004)

I have clearly shown that there is scientific basis of a gut brain health connection and also how a pro biotic diet can benefit the gut which in tern must then effect the brain.

How this plays out with different diseases etc is obviously worthy of great attention and study.

I started watching this talk by Campbell McBride, but I had to stop before my head exploded. Almost everything she says in just the first 5 minutes is simply untrue:

Cancer and heart disease have the same causes – not true.

Heart disease has risen in Scotland over the last few decades, and as their consumption of cholesterol has fallen, rates of heart disease have risen – not true, death rates from ischaemic heart disease in Scotland are lower than they have been for over 60 years and have more than halved since 1980.

Salmon contains almost twice as much cholesterol as beef fat, lamb fat and dairy fat – not true, it contains less than even lean beef, lamb and cheddar cheese.

If she can’t get even the most basic facts right, I don’t believe a word she says about anything else.

If she is finding that her her method really does work, ie peoples conditions are cured or improved, who would want there money back?

The study is the ONLY way to “find[] that her method really does work!” Without it, NOBODY knows whether it does or not, including her.

You are saying this in the face of the fact that “Science based medicine” has an appallingly low rate of working.

Irrelevant.

It is so clearly obvious there is science behind Dr Cambell-Mcbrides methods, yet you are still pretending there isn’t, with no contrary citations to refute my citations. The following do indeed support her thesis. One must read and or also use ones rational mind of course. This mind also needs to be open and willing to accept new information and look for parallels.

At best they suggest that there is a possibility. I repeat, the ONLY way to know whether a particular dietary intervention works is to expressly test it. This is why drug development has to start with basic science plausibility (being generous, that’s maybe where your cites stand). Then test in animal models, before moving up to human trials (I’m simplifying here). The majority of possible treatments which were promising based on the basic science fail to pan out when specifically tested. So you can’t just skip the specific tests.

I realise of course that what you posters are asking for me to provide is the fallacy of science, and that is an exact scientific study that answers the exact isolated question you pose, and that is a complete illusion. Right from the outset you are not really asking a question, and there fore can accept no answer. which is why it seems you are not researching the topic.

That is not the basis of real scientific inquiry with integrity.

Actually, it is the only way to do real science. Science consists of looking at existing data, formulating a hypothesis, and then testing that hypothesis. It’s that third step which is the crucial one, and which has been completely skipped here. You can’t simply say “this makes sense based on general arguments, therefore it is true.” You have to then test your prediction.

(Incidentally, this is exactly the same fallacy daedalus2u falls into with his NO crankery.)

If she is finding that her her method really does work, ie peoples conditions are cured or improved, who would want there money back?

Can you imagine the uproar we’d hear from the altie communities if the major pharmaceutical companies abandoned the standard course of scientific trials in favor of this method of unregulated caveat emptor human experimentation?

Alties seem to think that anything is permissible if one of their own does it.

You choose to overlook the references to a considerable body of evidence that links the gut and brain and the effect a Probiotic diet has. You do not make comment or refute this. (so you are actually agreeing with Dr Cambell McBride by default).

You can gurgle on with your excusses that we dont have specific data from her work etc… but that is obviously not what I am supplying or able to supply at this time, so its a moot point you are making, but thats all you have?

I have clearly shown that Dr Cambel-McBrides thesis has merit.

Basically, it seems you are choosing to follow prejudice, ignore science and to continue your witch hunt.

Kingfillins,

I posted a comment earlier that I will repeat here without the link that presumably put it into moderation.

I started watching a video of a talk by Campbell McBride, but I had to stop after just 5 minutes before my head exploded. Almost everything she says is simply untrue, for example:

Cancer and heart disease have the same causes – not true.

Heart disease has risen in Scotland over the last few decades, and as their consumption of cholesterol have fallen, rates of heart disease have risen – not true, death rates from ischaemic heart disease in Scotland are lower than they have been for over 60 years and have more than halved since 1980.

Salmon contains almost twice as much cholesterol as beef fat, lamb fat and dairy fat – not true, it contains less than even lean beef, lamb and cheddar cheese.

If she can’t get even the most basic facts right, I don’t believe a word she says about anything else.

I have clearly shown that Dr Cambel-McBrides thesis has merit.

No you haven’t, you have shown it is vaguely plausible and that it might be worth doing some studies to see if it has any merit.

Basically, it seems you are choosing to follow prejudice, ignore science and to continue your witch hunt.

It is you who is prejudiced, assuming that there is merit to her ideas without any real evidence, and it is you who is ignoring science.

No one is carrying out a witch hunt yet, but I must admit I am tempted to report Campbell McBride to the Advertising Standards Authority for making unsubstantiated claims on her website which is illegal under English law, and to make further inquiries about her medical qualifications to see if she is practicing medicine without a license.

Kingfillins mind is sealed shut. He is refusing to even understand that Dr. Campbell-McBride’s contentions must be proved by her. That science only slightly related to her claims have no bearing on whether or not her treatment works.

It is like the real science of fecal transplantation being morphed into this bit of total crack pot suggestion of collecting poop from a relative, let it sit in a bucket for a week and then shoving up the child with cake decorating pastry bag.

The corporate world is leaving science in taters

Potatoes now contain Science? Like little Kinder Surprises? Where can I buy them?

Kingfillins’ argument seems to be:

1. “a considerable body of evidence … links the gut and brain and the effect a Probiotic diet has.”
2. Campbell-McBride’s hypothesis links the gut and brain and a probiotic diet.
3. Therefore a considerable body of evidence supports Campbell-McBride’s hypothesis.

This is an argument in the same form:

1. A considerable body of evidence links drinking fluids with avoidance of death by dehydration.
2. Rattlesnake venom is a fluid, and I could hypothesize that eight 8-oz. glasses of undiluted rattlesnake venom daily will keep me healthy by warding off dehydration.
3. Therefore a considerable amount of evidence supports my “rattlesnake venom for good health” hypothesis.

Bronze Dog
“Duh! That’s why we’re always pushing for those clinical trials, and why we want watchdog organizations and rivalrous redundancy among labs to enforce an array of animal tests and ethical clinical trials on humans before they can even start marketing the product, followed by post-market observation to catch any defects that the first array of tests missed, and recall when necessary. The trust I give is dependent on how well they are held to that standard. That is anything but blind faith.”

This is warm fuzzy idea we might hope to be true.
Even if animals are suffering.

(Please watch this before commenting)

When it comes to products…
return on investment and profit is king regardless of the consequences…

after all people get sick naturally, right, if they happen to be taking a “scientifically proven safe” (or “scientifically proven” to work) drug and get sick, or die, that’s just a coincidental complication due to their illness.

If a child is cured of Autism or some other neurological condition, or gut condition, using the GAPS diet that’s just coincidence and, or it indicates that the child didn’t actually have Autism in the first place.

The first is a perception that we trust in the scientific method and its use in endorsement of a product, even though it is or may well be a fraudulent use of science,
and the other is using mainly a traditional natural diet but its efficacy has yet to be substantiated by clinical trials,
But the later is less trustworthy, and falls into the realm of “woo” so she should be prosecuted and or burnt at the stake.

Seems rational and reasonable.

(Obviously I am making a point here. A well constructed clinical trial is of course one of the best methods we have for study)

Hello, well, I assume you have never read her books: “Gut and Psychology Syndrome” or “Put Your Heart in Your Mouth”, both available from Amazon and both containing scientific references as well as anecdotal notes gathered in clinical practice. If you take the trouble to read these books, and especially to implement the guidelines contained therein, you will be positively surprised about the extremely positive results achieved. I was (fortunately) directed to Dr Natasha’s work by someone who (finally) diagnosed the cause of my suffering for over forty years, and whilst reading her GAPS book I found clear explanations not only for my own experiences since a young child, but also for many of my relatives and friends. Since then, by incorporating detox methods, therapeutic probiotic supplementation and nutrition in accordance with Dr Natasha’s guidelines (which in part overlap with those recommended by Dr Joachim Mutter, Dr Sidney Macdonald Baker, Dr Mark Hyman and Dr Joseph Mercola – to name just a few) my health and quality of life have improved dramatically. How I wish I had found her work much, much sooner. For some of my now deceased relatives, her life could have been a true life-saver. Had we only known to bring our gut flora back into balance, much suffering could have been avoided completely. There are other lectures given by Dr Natasha, e.g. on You Tube and vimeo from the 2010 Wise Traditions UK conference, and the lectures are worth listening to with an open mind, as what she describes is true. Her work has helped and continues to help many, many people who have been failed by mainstream medicine practitioners, and she deserves great credit for her courage in speaking the truth as she does. Sincerely, Dominique

and why vaccines are so polemic????? because some ppl are supporting those drugs for our children and the drugs companies will always use their power to let another down , so please don’t use the name of Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride in the middle of this trash, she is wonderful doctor, and about prices she may charge , sorry even is too cheaper because she really can detect all the problems in any kind of patient and most of doctors are charging more even and they can not heal their health, but she through her book saved my son , please never ever use again any link and user her name in this way, I have enormous gratitude for everything he does for us!!!

thanks again and rethink twice when mention the names of ppl who really want to recover patients in natural way as possible. Drugs is not the solution!!

tomorrow I will come right here to check if my comments still here!!

I would cut cristina some slack on spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Her sentence structure doesn’t sound like that of a native English speaker.

My money’s on “bot.”

You’re a complete psychopath for calling it quackery and rambling on about your nonsense. Most cases of autism is definitely caused by vaccines. Get a clue you imbecile.

Do tell, Ricky. You have some…oh, you know…scientific evidence to support your assertions that vaccines cause autism and “destroy your IQ and immune system.” We’ll wait.

@Ricky

Where was all this autism 100 years ago when vaccines were not being used like they are today?

Well, for the most part, it was called different things. Societally, it was something to be ashamed of, and those with autism were frequently placed into mental institutions, labeled such wonderful things as “mentally defective” or crazy. Sorry to burst your happy little conspiracy bubble.