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Welcome back, my friends, to the thread that never ends…

This morning, I was forced to do something that I rarely do, namely shut down a comment thread and ban a particularly noxious troll for sockpuppetry. The post in question dealt with one Michael J. Dochniak and his ridiculous and scientifically unsupportable notion (I refuse to dignify it by calling it a “hypothesis”) that Latex used in the packaging of some vaccines causes autism. In truth, I probably let that thread go on far longer than I should have. Also, I probably should have banned Mr. Dochniak a couple of months ago for repeating the same arguments again and again and again after being thoroughly slapped down by my science-based readers again and again and again and again. But I didn’t. And Mr. Dochniak is still not banned. Hopefully, given his level of discourse, he is not savvy enough to find this new post and thread, but you never know. Maybe he has a Google search set to his name.

To all my regulars who took part in refuting Mr. Dochniak, I salute you. I couldn’t do it and still write new posts. It just goes to show how a community can develop around a blog like this, and how I couldn’t really do it anymore without you.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

363 replies on “Welcome back, my friends, to the thread that never ends…”

I enjoy and learn a lot from the scientific discourse that the usual folks have provide. It is a shame that they are sometimes inundated with stupid.

I’d been blessedly unaware of this silent monster.

There must be an interesting explanation for the May-August hiatus, but only the One Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken knows what it is.

And, Orac, you have my heartfelt sympathy for SB’s inexplicable lack of auto-shutdown for threads. Were it not for WordPress’ capability in this regard, those of us who only post with the same frequency as solar eclipses would have been over our eyeballs with this stuff long ago.

Indeed. At my other blog, comment threads automatically shut down 90 days after each post goes live. It is a wonderful thing, and prevents necromancers. Fortunately, I’m told that the new overlords will be migrating Sb over to WordPress…some day. I have no idea when.

If you want to learn something new, read a book.

Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

Sincerely,

Michael J. Dochniak

I was the target of the filthy-mouthed pothead sock puppet that was banned. It was a terrible experience.

In the wee hours of this morning I was online and observed the filth spewed out against two of our “regulars”.

Sexist pig sock puppets tend to take advantage of Orac’s downtime to harass women.

If you want to learn something new, read a book.

This is true, but if you want to learn something true, you have to be a little bit more discerning about what you read.

Additionally, even I as a bibliophile must note that books are not the quintessence of knowledge: it is perfectly possible to learn more from a good blog than a bad book.

There is essentially no evidence supporting the claim that vaccination is associated with-much less causally associated with-autism. Therefore, there is no point in investigating individual ingredients in vaccines.

Dochniak, the irrepressible book-spammer (#6):

“If you want to learn something new, read a book.”

Very true – although if you read Mr. Dochniak’s books, all you will learn is how little he understands about immunology, biology and science in general.

If, on the other hand, you’d like to expand your knowledge horizons (apart from the knowledge of how easy it is to write a book about a subject you know nothing about), I’d suggest reading a different author. Dr. Seuss would be a better choice.

Good to see that you made your way here, Mr. Dochniak – did you bring some data, or is your argument still based on your “beliefs” and a misunderstanding of immunology (e.g. from his most recent book, that IgG and IgM are part of the innate immune system).

Prometheus

Can we agree to stop proving MjD with any sort of forum to spew his unbelieveably incoherent and unnecessarily repetative posts?

Wow, I missed that whole flame war somehow. Prometheus, when you started that thread, you said that you had never written a book. Well, now, thanks to the sheer volume of nuttery flung your way, I believe you have. Fantastic work in the face of one of the weirdest trolls in RI history. Okay, the animal rights supermodel from last year wins that one, but MjD is a close, if rather sad, second. Congratulations to all the cogent, sassy and smart posters who endured that campaign.

Diane writes (#10), “There is essentially no evidence supporting the claim that vaccination is associated with-much less causally associated with-autism. Therefore, there is no point in investigating individual ingredients in vaccines.”

MjD’s response:

Your statement can only be supported if the immune system doesn’t influence neurological development. Studies have shown that immunity does affect the expression of endogenous proteins including neuron growth factor.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/478213_5

It is well known that natural-latex proteins (i.e., hevea-allergens) can contaminate vaccines. The hevea-allergens are considered a contaminant and not an ingredient.

Vaccine contaminants (i.e., Hevea-allergens) must be investigated in the aetiology of vaccine induced autism.

MjD

@Michael J. Dochniak :

If you want to learn something new, read a book.

If you want us to pay money to buy your book, you’d have to give us some reason to think that it’d be worth the money. Nothing you’ve said here in Orac’s blog has provided any reason to think so, and the excerpts of the book that Prometheus has analyzed give us good reason to think that it definitely won’t be worth the money.

vaccine induced autism.

Which there’s no evidence for so we can save time and not bother investigating things for no reason.

But, Mr. Dochniak, I am reading a book: The Willowbrook Wars. I hope to finish it today.

I recently finished Pox: An American History, The Emperor of All Maladies, Schuyler’s Monster, a Father’s Journey with his Wordless Daughter, Among the Truthers, Planet of Viruses, Mr. Jefferson and the Giant Moose, Nonsense on Stilts, Quantum Man, The Disappearing Spoon, The Mathematics of Life, The Panic Virus, The Psychopath Test, Deadly Choices, Wicked Bugs, Wicked Plants, Founding Gardeners, The Story of Charlotte’s Web and House on Fire, the Fight to Eradicate Smallpox.

Soon I’ll be starting the Cocktail Hour Under the Tree of Forgetfulness, and then I will get The Drunkard’s Walk from the library.

I really have no time nor desire to read either of your books after seeing your behavior on this blog.

(in case anyone is curious, I cut the book information from the library emails telling me a hold was available, and paste them into a spreadsheet)

It is well known that natural-latex proteins (i.e., hevea-allergens) can contaminate vaccines.

In Quackese, “it is well known” translates to the English phrase, “I believe it strongly but cannot cite a reliable source either through failure to look for one or a genuine lack of such sources.” Nota bene: “buy my book” does not count as a citation.

I would also like to point out that the good doctor is assuming his conclusion throughout everything that he’s posted here. Not a terribly convincing way to do logic, and it bodes rather direly for the contents of his book.

— Steve (vaxxed and non-autistic, if we’re doing battle by anecdote)

May I make a suggestion…to shut down comments on this subject. I was very upset early this A.M. to see the vicious filthy attacks directed at women who post here. The subject of this blog is a real sick human being.

Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

They must be very short books or contain a high picture-to-text ratio.

Your statement can only be supported if the immune system doesn’t influence neurological development

No, my statement can only be supported if the bulk of currently available research does not support any correlation between autism and vaccination. Which any jaunt through medline will reveal to be correct: there is no correlation between vaccination and autism. Wakefield’s “research” proved to be fraudulent and subsequent studies simply have not supported any correlation. The immune system may influence neurological development in some ways, but this isn’t one of them.

Anyway, if latex provokes autism, why isn’t every child ever treated for a serious medical condition in early childhood autistic? Latex is pretty ubiquitous in hospitals, yet patients with sickle cell anemia, thalassemia, a history of early childhood/infancy ALL, etc are rarely autistic. Is latex given as part of a vaccine somehow magic?

Anton P. Nym writes (#19), “vaxxed and non-autistic, if we’re doing battle by anecdote”

MjD’s response:

The first mention of natural-latex allergy in a medical journal was in 1933. Dr. John G. Downing described two surgeons who came to him complaining of hand dermatitis after wearing rubber gloves during surgery.

Downing J. Dermatitis from rubber gloves. N Engl J. Med 1933;208:196-8.

In 1930 Dr. Leo Kanner developed the first child psychiatry service in a pediatric center at Johns Hopkins hospital, Baltimore. Thereafter, the classification of Autism occurred in 1943 by the same person in the same hospital.

Thus, it appears that the timing of the discovery of natural-latex allergy and Autism coincide extremely close in medical history.

MjD (if we’re doing battle by anecdote)

Dianne writes (#22), “Anyway, if latex provokes autism, why isn’t every child ever treated for a serious medical condition in early childhood autistic? Latex is pretty ubiquitous in hospitals, yet patients with sickle cell anemia, thalassemia, a history of early childhood/infancy ALL, etc are rarely autistic. Is latex given as part of a vaccine somehow magic?

MjD’s response:

Finally, a good question! There are many factors that can influence the incidence and prevalence of a Th2 immune response. Such factors may include genetic, epigenetic, and cormorbid factors. Furthermore, the prevalence of cross-reactivity in an infant’s adaptive immune system also influences the severity of allergy-induced regressive autism.

Details can be extracted from the Nova Science book “Allergies and Autism”.

MjD

Please, please stop posting here…it only encourages the filthy-mouthed sock puppets.

Today’s reading is from the book of Internet Common Law, Title 21, Section 4, “Sock Puppets”:
[clears throat]

In cases of egregious and repetitive sockpuppetry, it is considered the blog owner’s prerogative to impose any punishment up to and including banning, on the sockpuppet, and to modify the sockpuppet’s posts without restriction, such modification to be determined at the sole discretion of the blog owner, the scope of which is considered explicitly to include disemvowelling or any other mockery whatsoever.

Now, as we all realize, Orac is a busy box of blinking lights, but it may not be wise to assume that he has no CPU cycles available for a little … improvement … of certain comments.

Lilady writes (#20), “May I make a suggestion…to shut down comments on this subject. I was very upset early this A.M. to see the vicious filthy attacks directed at women who post here”.

and

Orac writes in the introduction, “I couldn’t do it and still write new posts”.

MjD’s response:

Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

Respectfully,

MjD

@23

Apparently, the fact that autism existed before Kanner defined it appears to have escaped Michael J. Dochniak.

Prior to Kanner the substitution of changelings by faeries was a real phenomenon. Presumably something that happened around 1930 (perhaps the Great Depression) caused them to give up this practice just as autism “suddenly” appeared.

MjD (#34):

“Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.”

Amd this from the master of indecent sock-puppetry himself!

Prometheus

Just one from me lilady..

MjD has now been reduced to sock puppetting. Even more proof that the deceit of antivaxx cultists knows no limit. If someone believes that their facts and reasoning are correct, why resort to such blatant deception? Says everything anyone needs to know about MjD’s character.

Personally I thought MjD’s spamming of this blog with ads for his books called for a ban, but I guess the old thread did serve to show just how clueless and twisted this person is.

Mr. Dochniak, the sock puppet thinks he/she is helping you, it seems to be someone you know (and lives in the same time zone). If anyone should control the behavior of the sock puppet, it should be you. Pretending to be other people and saying things stupid things is not sane behavior.

The first thing you should do is to stop trying to get us to buy your book. The second thing you need to do is get help.

extremely hard to ban someone.

No, it’s more a matter of how much effort one cares to expend and how dimwitted the nuisance is. I’m guessing that in your case a simple list of inbound addresses would be telling.

“…that Latex used in the packaging of some vaccines causes autism.”

So it was latex all along. Well that’s good to know, surely this one can be easily rectified. Once we switch to different packaging I’m sure the vaccine detractors will all go away.

Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

I am not sure what sponsors you are referring to or why sponsorship is of any concern to a well employed surgeon/researcher. At any rate, I frequently find statements promoting dangerous and unproven health treatments much more indecent than use of profanity or unsavory imagery.

Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

I am not sure what sponsors you are referring to or why sponsorship is of any concern to a well employed surgeon/researcher. At any rate, I frequently find statements promoting dangerous and unproven health treatments much more indecent than use of profanity or unsavory imagery.

Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

They must be very short books or contain a high picture-to-text ratio.

Herr Doktor – he’s reading Spot Goes to the Homeopath. It’s a riveting tale about our floppy-eared canine chum, whose mummy takes him for homeopathic ‘vaccinations’, because she doesn’t want Spot to get the autisms.

See Spot run. Run Spot, run!
See Spot take his magic water.
Good Boy Spot!

The sequel is called Spot Gets Encephalitis, and follows what happens to the lovable pup after he catches measles from someone at the park.

Oh, and has anyone else seen this terrifying blog BTW? mumsnothavingchemo.com

It’s got every disgusting bit of woo you can think of, all condensed into one terrifying, depressing blog. That’s the end result of people like Dochniak, Wakefield, McCarthy and Mercola being allowed to squirt their bullshit where it can land on vulnerable people.

Igor writes (#36), “So it was latex all along. Well that’s good to know, surely this one can be easily rectified. Once we switch to different packaging I’m sure the vaccine detractors will all go away”.

MjD’s response:

A good start when big pharma begins to completely remove natural-latex from vaccine packaging.

In continuation, big pharma needs to encourage latex avoidance after vaccinations due to Th2 shifting. For example, no natural-latex bottle nipples or natural-latex pacifiers after vaccines.

In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

MjD

In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism,

That does not exist. There is no data to support that latex or vaccines lead to regressive autism. You have had since May to provide that data, and you have failed.

Get help.

In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

It might be time to face the fact that blabbering away here is not going to turn Vytex into a gold mine. I mean, seriously, what do you think prospective investors would make of this display?

Um. You know, Mr MjD, when my son was born I thought that “natural latex” was something to avoid with kids for nipples, etc., way back then. It didn’t last as well as the non-latex kinds, and personally, I didn’t like the texture/flavor of it.

Sadly, what is proven, AGAIN is the original thread title (of the now-closed thread) was very appropriate. When someone who has an anti-vaccine theory they will go through all manner of intellectual contortions to attempt to justify its existence rather than balance it against current information to see if it is even plausible.

There is ON-GOING research into possible cause(s) of autism and plausible theories are regularly suggested and evaluated. Sadly, your supposition goes outside what is known and ignores many things which make it implausible because you started your search proving what you saw, not realizing you were dealing with confirmation bias to begin with.

After so long and many attempts to speak rationally and politely with you, I have to agree with the others. You’re a lost cause. For whatever reason you are incapable of backing up a few steps and looking at where current evidence takes you and then adjusting (or discarding, if necessary) your supposition to fit what is known.

Orac – you could not have found a more appropriate book/target for the original post. MjD is the poster child for anti-vaccination contortionists.

Elburto writes (#40), “That’s the end result of people like Dochniak, Wakefield, McCarthy and Mercola being allowed to squirt their bullshit where it can land on vulnerable people”.

MjD’s response:

Have you ever heard of vaccines with latex warnings? That’s where big pharma is allowed to manufacture vaccines that can inject hevea-allergens into children.

Hevea-allergens are a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication.

Read, and get educated, about latex allergy.

Latex exposure can adversely affect vulnerable children.

MjD

A good start when big pharma begins to completely remove natural-latex from vaccine packaging

What makes you think this isn’t the responsibility of the Big Latex? Seems unfair to hold pharmaceutical companies solely responsible?

In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

Allergy induced autism? As in a particular allergy, all of them, somewhere in between? If there is such an animal as allergy induced autism, have have you considered going after the Big Peanut, a staple of any growing child’s diet? I always thought Mr. Peanut to be an elitist corporate billionaire mocking the children’s suffering.

Mrs. Woo writes (#44), “Sadly, your supposition goes outside what is known and ignores many things which make it implausible because you started your search proving what you saw, not realizing you were dealing with confirmation bias to begin with”.

MjD’s response:

This study can not be ignored.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20957522

MjD

That study has nothing to with vaccines. Allergy-induced regressive autism does not exist.

So, uh. Really? Allergy induced Autism?

You know, my Pathophys is not quite up to par with that of many others – being a Paramedic I typically don’t treat autistic patients just for autism – but can someone take a moment to explain this proposed mechanism by which latex allergies tend to cause autism? Because, in my experience, a latex allergy tends to be the anaphylactic/anaphylactoid type reactions that tend to NEED the skills and patho training I do have. The kind that get lots of Alpha and Beta-2 agonists, and H1/H2 Blockers.

Have you ever heard of vaccines with latex warnings?

I have not. Have you ever heard of vaccines with glass, steel, or plastic warnings?

Hevea-allergens are a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication.

Not to mention tissues. Kleenex is in on it as well. The bee-keepers, however, appear to be interested only in selling honey, despite my thorough investigation at the farmer’s market.

You know, the old thread was mildly entertaining and educational for the first couple hundred comments. But MjD’s truly jaw-dropping level of intransience in the face of far superior logic and evidence (which is the nice way of putting it, I might add) quickly became more frustrating than useful. And lo-and-behold, he’s now doing the exact same thing to this thread.

To be blunt, I think his presence here has outlived any potential usefulness it may have once had. Orac, if you decide to ban him, just know that you’ll have at least one lurker applauding that decision, and I seriously doubt I’ll be the only one.

From the abstract of the study presented by MJD in support of absolute claims.

[W]e hypothesize that immune reactions triggered by close contact with NRL might influence the functions of B lymphocytes by altering expression of certain proteins identified in our experiments thus contributing to the occurrence of autism.

With only the abstract to guide me this publication, which postdates MJD book, appears to present us with a hypothesis. It is also a pilot study, a term clearly unfamiliar to MJD who seems to think it validates alarming millions and putting companies out of business.

This study can not be ignored.

I shudder to think what other hypothesis or pilot study you might be unable to ignore next.

@Indigo Fire

I have to admit I learned a bit debating Mr. MjD in that thread as well (and it opened up an interest in seriously understanding the immune system since some of my struggles are considered autoimmune in nature). I’ve lurked and read with a few polite comments here and there for more than two years at this point (possibly longer – probably found this website when we were dealing with a cancer scare here at home – that would have been three years ago, I guess).

Lurking is great, but I’ve found that taking the courage to put questions out there, if you’re trying to do it with an understanding of the topic, requires even MORE learning… just kind of trying to encourage you on the lurking thing to maybe peek out more often. 🙂

@ Indigo_Fire: I second your suggestion about banning this mentally deranged man. He really needs some serious help. I shudder to think what he is doing to his family with his anger issues.

@Mrs. Woo

Yeah, I really should post here more often instead of lurking. However, since I’m just an undergrad I generally don’t have much to add to the debate that the more highly educated commenters here haven’t already covered in greater detail, but I generally understand enough of what’s going on that I don’t feel much need to ask questions. There’s also the fact that I have a compulsive need to recheck my posts about 10 times before I actually complete them, which means that it sometimes takes me 10 minutes just to post a few sentences when I’m feeling especially neurotic.

@Lilady

To tell the truth, I don’t really think he’s the one behind the nasty, angry sock-puppets. Most of his posts are just so cheerfully vacuous and robotic that I have a hard time imagining him as the profanity-spewing, caps-lock-loving, sock-puppet hailing from the Kingdom of Trolls. If they are the same person, then it means he either has split personalities, or he’s the brilliant but evil King of Trolls who’s been deliberately playing the fool since the very beginning.

I could certainly be wrong, but I’m inclined to think that the sock-puppets are just some anti-vaccine nut who’s decided they’re MjD’s “ally” and is just making a fuss because they’re of the opinion that MjD isn’t being, ahem, “hard enough” on us pro-vaccine types. After all, it’s common knowledge that logic and evidence are nowhere near as important as anger and insults, right? 😉

@MjD @47:

Study in a chinese “family”… Really, latex allergy is the only explanation?

Increasingly, research points to the role of genetics as a cause of autism. But it can’t occur to you that genetics could be responsible for it (hint: *family*)

Plus, a single family has been investigated. How do you rule out the possibility of a coincidence that this particular family may have allergy and autism running in the family but not necessarily as the cause of each other? This is precisely the reason why a single family is too small a number to give you any statistically relevant association between autism and allergy.

Also, association is not proof of causation. If the association makes you conclude that latex allergy causes autism, how did you rule out the possibility that autism can cause latex allergies?

@ Indigo_Fire: I might agree with you..however I was online when this was playing out. He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

Please come back to post again and do not worry about re-checking phrasing or punctuation. Heh, heh, everyone knows I am the undisputed queen of the run-on sentence.

@T-reg: The study is only a pilot study, which means that it’s intended to test the feasibility of the particular research method and to provide guidance for mounting an actual study. I only have access to the abstract which states that the association they are analyzing is a hypothesis.

Nothing about this study, with the exception that there might be legitimate scientists willing to conduct actual research which is likely to reach conclusions contrary to MJD’s firmly held views. Fear not, nothing about MJD suggests that he is willing to follow the evidence where it leads him, only the evidence which leads him where he wants to go (or has already arrived, to be more precise).

@lilady

He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

I missed most of the insults (caught some this morning), and can’t judge their authorship. But as to MjD denying authorship: why would he? He also doesn’t actually answer simple questions.

He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

Is there some reason to believe that MJD was the source of this? I missed the early stuff, but that which I saw in this thread didn’t seem like MJD so much as a “Jacob” instantiation.

He whose name shall not be mentioned posted from London; this sockpuppet posted from the central time zone, USA.

I cannot fathom why Dochniak has not denied the sockpuppetry..any rational/innocent person would..yes?

I can only suppose that I missed some important aspect. I doubt not only that MJD would be able to pull off any sort of deliberate IP shifting only to recover to some safe harbor, but also that he would grasp that there was anything to deny.

I may be mistaken, but he was accused on sockpuppetry on the earlier postings and still has not denied their authorship.

@ Mr. Dochniak: Why don’t you tell us that you did not indulge in this behavior?

@Lilady at 61

Since when has MjD been rational? 😛

Honestly, the fact that his responses to most posts on the other thread boiled down to him ignoring absolutely everything they said and then just reiterating his nonsensical points implies that he does not perceive reality like the rest of us. The fact that he’s completely ignored the sock-puppet could very well be due to the fact that its rants just haven’t permeated his personal-reality-bubble yet.

@ Indigo_Fire: You are of course correct with your astute analysis of Dochniak’s behavior. He seems devoid of any rational thinking, will not reply to anyone who questions him and just ignores criticism of his theories.

One other question. What’s with the relatively new affectation of referring to himself in the 3rd person?

Michael J. Dochniak

It is often difficult to pierce the bleating and noise of the “skeptik sheep” but it seems you have an interesting hypothesis.

It seems quite reasonable that there could well be a close association between aberrant genetic expression through transcription factors like NFkB and latex proteins.

I’d imagine that autism genes expressed would influence such factors as

Regulation of Immune System Process

Apoptosis (cell death)

Regulation of defense response – (Any process that modulates the frequency, rate or extent of a defense response.)

NFkB has many known activators including and I’m sure the bleating will now increase exponentially
virus and bacteria such as measles , rubella and pertussis.

NFkB has been implicated as an important mechanism in Autism pathology.

“Transcription factors provide the link between early membrane-proximal signalling events and changes in gene expression. NF-kB is one of the best-characterized transcription factors. It is expressed ubiquitously and regulates the expression of many genes, most of which encode proteins that play an important and often determining role in the processes of immunity and inflammation.

Apart from its role in these events, evidence has begun to accumulate that NF-kB is involved in brain function, particularly following injury and in neurodegenerative conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease.

NF-kB might also be important for viral replication in the CNS. An involvement of NF-kB in neuronal development is suggested from studies that demonstrate its activation in neurones in certain regions of the brain during neurogenesis.

Brain-specific activators of NF-kB include glutamate (via both AMPA/KA and NMDA receptors) and neurotrophins, pointing to an involvement in synaptic plasticity. NF-kB can therefore be considered as one of the most important transcription factors characterized in brain to date and it might be as crucial for neuronal and glial cell function as it is for immune cells.”

Anyway keep up the good work I hope to hear more from you. Of course posting on these forums will do little to further science….perhaps you should open minded people.

@lilady #65

What’s with the relatively new affectation of referring to himself in the 3rd person?

It’s not new. He’s been doing it for weeks. Trust me on this one.
His postings escalated at the end of August 2011. He became seriously repetitive on Oct 23, which is what had prompted me to count up the posts. The “MjD’s response” tagline appeared prior to that. I assume it’s because he doesn’t know how to google “htlm tags,” and is using that line as a substitute for using them.

Narad and Indigo_Fire are both spot on. I’m really not sure why you think he’d be responding to anything rationally. As far as I can tell, he’s all about spin.

It is often difficult to pierce the bleating and noise of the “skeptik [sic] sheep” but it seems you have an interesting hypothesis.

An interesting hypothesis is what the researchers proposing the pilot study MJD linked as definitive proof of the claims made in his book. The skeptics who sheepishly refuse to follow MJD’s miraculous discovery of a link between autism and latex induced allergies would renew their faith in people had he treated it as a hypothesis.

Of course posting on these forums will do little to further science….perhaps you should open minded people.

Yet that’s all guys like MJD ever seem to do, post on forums and then try to co opt other people’s work that they often poorly understand. Occasionally they would publish a book containing no original research and “open minded” people will buy that. Some will clean out all the latex in their house some will look for actual studies and base their opinion on that, rather then some guy on the internets calling them a sheep for verifying another internet poster’s extraordinary claims.

@Blackheart:

What you describe is quite plausible. However, where is the verification for it? No one has any definite proof that it does infact happen. Plausible or not, reality is the final decider and so far you have no evidence.

Mr Dochniak, with his qualifications is not a very reliable source. He has also amply demonstrated on this website that he has little knowledge of the way the immune system functions further decreasing his credibility.

Now, the logical flaws in your argument:
1. Let us assume that latex allergy does in fact cause autism in the genetically predisposed. Considering the amount of latex one is exposed to in our day to day lives, vaccines are an insignificant source of that exposure. Even if we discontinue the practice of vaccination, they will still be exposed to latex and still develop autism. However, without the protection from the vaccines they will also fall prey to measles, mumps, rubella, Diptheria, Pertussis, Chicken pox, Hib meningitis…
So why should we discontinue vaccination considering that it has benefits and it causes no additional risk of autism?

2. Now let us assume that exposure to measles can cause autism in those genetically predisposed (as you hypothesize). Considering the high prevalence of measles and high infectivity of the measles virus in the prevaccination era, almost everyone would be exposed to the measles virus at some point in their life. Post vaccination era, everyone is exposed to the measles virus but in its attenuated form which doesn’t cause disease. So, considering your notion, how has vaccination spurred an increase autism when everyone was exposed to the virus and everyone is still exposed to the virus?

Assumptions appart, after 14 years of the bogus study, several additional studies and meta-analyses later, no link has been found between autism and vaccination. Your hypothesis falls right there.

@T-reg: part of the problem is that among the charlatans and true believers, the possibilities are inexhaustible and without the limitations of devising an actual theory with descriptive or predictive power, an individual with a “pot commitment” into a belief is never too far away from providing a new and seemingly unexplored alternative. Of course, the tendency is to ignore all the possibilities that by the same logic are just as likely if not more so to present some perceived risk. People fixated on the idea that vaccines cause autism aren’t even remotely considering the possibility that it’s the computers, Television,radio waves, food additives, growth hormones, sonograms, etc. and ad nauseum. Of course the supporters of these alternative “hypotheses” often refuse to acknowledge any possibility that it might be vaccines.

First off, glad to see you posting, Indigo_Fire. Not all of us are trained scientists or physicians, so no need to fear on that front. The more voices opining, the greater the breadth of discussion, no?

@MjD

Did I read that right? Are you suggesting that there was no autism before 1933-ish? That autism began due to latex allergies? You appear to be falling into the same blunder as many other “autism researchers” on the anti-vaccine front. Namely, thinking that autism did not exist before Kanner created the diagnosis. The problem is that the term “autism” was used prior to Kanner. Not only that, but symptoms which, though classed under a different name, sound very much like what we call autism today were described as early as 1906.

Then again, why should I be surprised at Mike’s lack of research.

Mike has an addiction to shill his pulp fiction. (Doggerel’s easy. Science, on the other hand, is hard. You’d do well to learn that, Mike.)

So there are about Seven kids with vaccine induced autism.

But the rest are from natural latex allergies, right?

Well yes, that gives us over half a million autistic people who have ‘unusual causes’.

Todd W. writes (#72), “The problem is that the term “autism” was used prior to Kanner. Not only that, but symptoms which, though classed under a different name, sound very much like what we call autism today were described as early as 1906.

MjD’s response:

In my opinion, Charles Goodyear (1800-1860) is the father of allergy-induced regressive autism through the development of vulcanized H. brasiliensis natural rubber and then suggesting its use in syringes.

About 150 years later, we’re just starting to understand how the antigens in natural-latex can affect immunity and cognitive development in children.

MjD

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