Categories
Medicine Pseudoscience Skepticism/critical thinking

An animal rights zealot faces her comeuppance

I was going to write about that article about massage therapy and the gene expression changes it causes, but when I went to look up the actual paper and found out, to my great disappointment, that our institution still doesn’t have a subscription to the journal in which it was published. So, while I’m waiting for a friend to send me a copy, I can’t help but do a quick and uncharacteristically short posts (for me) discussing a tidbits of information that I found quite heartening. Unfortunately, it involves a person every bit as vile as the antivaccine activists who so hate vaccines that they’re willing to make excuses for the death of a baby that involve claiming that the shaken baby syndrome doesn’t exist and trying to exonerate baby killers by claiming that shaken baby syndrome is due to vaccines.

I’m referring to a woman named Camille Marino, a woman who is every bit as despicable–more so, even–than the most die-hard antivaccinationist pushing the idea that vaccines can replicate the triad of findings in shaken baby syndrome. Remember Camille Marino? She’s the animal rights “activist” in Florida responsible for a website and blog known as Negotiation Is Over, which can best be described as pure crazy on megadoses of steroids. With her spiritual soulmate Steven Best, Marino has created a paean to self-righteously overwrought pontificating sprinkled with the fetishization of violence. To her, threats against children are not considered beyond the pale, nor is justifying it by saying things like:

If daddy makes a living bathing in blood, you have to expect some of it to drip off onto junior.

And:

If you spill blood, your blood should be spilled as well. [W]e’re no longer playing games. We will print your information. And we’ll be at your homes. We’ll be at your work. We’ll be at your country clubs and golf courses. We’ll see you at your manicurist and we’ll be kneeling next to you when you take that next holy communion wafer on Sunday. If I have my way, you’ll be praying to us for mercy.

Last year, Marino was seen targeting undergraduate students as the “soft underbelly of the vivisectionist movement.” Specifically, she and her minion Ghazal Tajalli targeted a bright, enthusiastic, budding young scientist named Alena Rodriguez with a campaign of harassment that so frightened this poor young woman that she ultimately “recanted” her previous support for animal research. Her statement, as I said at the time, reminded me of a Soviet-style “confession” in which a straying comrade must confess her crimes before being offered a chance at “absolution.”

Most recently, Marino started harassing a scientist at Wayne State University named Donal O’Leary, leveling the same nonsensical complaints of “vivisection” against him that she levels against every scientist involved in animal research and doing everything she promises to do against any whom she considers a “vivisector” except for actually spilling blood, although some of her dimmer and more vile fans engaged in snuff fantasies:

But the real fun begins when we rip your teeth out one by one with pliers and pound each one into your skull, via your ear canals, with a hammer and chisel.

We will cut off each ear with a scissors so nothing gets in the way of our fierce pneumatic pounding and the tunnels we are going to carve into your puny, sick brain from both sides of your bastard bald head.

We will hang your torso on steel hooks and rip your skin off in 3 inch wide sheets which we will wrap around your neck and light on fire as we toast some vegan marshmallows and light Cuban cigars to celebrate our special time with you.

Before your first pathetic life is over, as you gurgle with blood-soaked lungs and shiver with death rattles, we will kick your raw, red, bloody stump of a torso, stripped of all your hideous reptilian skin, down ten city blocks to the crossroads of starving dogs and let them devour what little is left of you, pieces of venal flesh flying into the air, until nothing of your evil, greedy, heinous, ugly, sick, sadistic, puke-inducing, utterly worthless, soulless, fuckshit body is left.

And that is only payback for Queenie, one of the beautiful, innocent souls you murdered gratuitously and unconscionably, just as your demented mentors, more sleazy white-coat whores of Big Pharma, trained you to do at the Frankenstein Academy and the Institute of Dr. Moreau.

That’s only a small sampling, to which Marino herself happily and jauntily replied:

Is there any chance I can persuade you to videotape your proposed activism so that we might upload it to NIO for the entire community to enjoy?

I just finished sending off an email to this motherfucker wishing him a slow painful death.

I would be elated to actually watch it come to pass!

Meanwhile, NIO featured posts threatening to make Dr. O’Leary “feel the fear.”

In response to the harassment of Dr. O’Leary, Wayne State actually did something ballsy. First, it banned Marino from its campus with a most amazing letter. You really should read the actual letter itself (here’s page 2). I found it immensely gratifying to read and was glad that Dr. O’Leary’s university actually took a stand. Then, WSU got a court order instructing Marino to take down all the personal information about Dr. O’Leary that she had posted. Not surprisingly, Marino refused.

And over the weekend she was arrested in Florida when she and another woman presented expired drivers’ licenses in response to a request for identification by police officers at an animal rights protest they were attending. Proceedings are under way to extradite her to Michigan. Camille confirmed stories of her arrest on her own blog.

I’m have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, it is clear that Camille Marino is a sociopath who uses and abuses the Internet to threaten, stalk, intimidate, and harass scientists whom she views as being “vivisectionists.” She issues threats and induces her feeble-minded proxies to stalk, threaten, and harass, providing them information about where scientists live, where they work, and who their children are. It is very clear what her intention is, and that’s to do anything and everything she can to frighten and intimidate scientists. On the other hand, as much as I despise the woman, it’s a little concerning how she was arrested, basically for nothing more than having an expired drivers’ license, and how she’s been held. Still, she’s been openly contemptuous not just of science and scientists, but of the law. Now she’s reaping what she herself has sown, having not just disobeyed a lawful court order but having done so openly and defiantly. Whatever quibbles I might have about how she’s been brought to justice or the conflict between the right to free speech versus where limits should be drawn to prevent harassment, threats, and stalking, I have a hard time feeling sorry for her.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

276 replies on “An animal rights zealot faces her comeuppance”

My guess after reading the NIO article “Donal O’Leary got a court order” here:

http://www.negotiationisover.net/2012/01/12/donal-oleary-got-court-order-to-have-his-info-removed-from-nio/

Is that when the cop saw Camille’s license was expired he ran her through the system. Since she has a criminal contempt charge in January in Michigan, they arrested her on the spot due to an active warrant. This is completely her own doing for ignoring and even taunting the court “…good luck collecting your $6,281.72!”

So I guess they’ll get that $6,281.72?

Animal-rights whacking is the new groovy thing these days…especially as the Beef&Bacon Big Boys got the heebie-jeebies bad… thanks to all the undercover vids rolling in.

One might say though, that the pertwitzed Ms. Marino no more represents mainstream animal-rights then Fred Phelps represents Baptists or Dr. Mengele represents physicians.

The fringe is fun, of course.
On a slow day.

Obligatory rhetorical question about why these creeps target scientists and students rather than, say, hunters.

🙁

I subscribe to an animal hoarding news list.
(DIY search: use “animals seized”)

Many animal hoarders/abusers insist their animals are loved and cared for. The most socially adept of them portray themselves as rescuers and animal rights champions, which results in some in the animal rights community defending and donating to them.

I stopped trying to understand the contradictions after a while.

We had this in the UK. At first the more violent were described as fringe, nut-job etc and were not taken that seriously even by the police except by the people who were attacked. Of course they gained confidence from the lack of action against them.

One incident was the firing of a rock from a hunting catapult through a window, curtains and embedding in a piano some 30 feet away. This could easily have been lethal and it was pure luck that nobody was injured. The vehicle they used was identified and the same vehicle was apprehended by the police within an hour and a hunting catapult, similarly sized rocks and ball bearings were found. No action was taken by the police on the grounds we couldn’t identify the individual who had used the catapult.

It was many years before the police were convinced to take action but finally the central gang was arrested and convicted. The investigation showed how the more moderate protesters of vivisection were supporting the psychos either directly or through fund raising.

So I advise taking this seriously and forcing action as soon as possible.

For instance, is there no ‘Incitement to violence’ crime in the USA?

IMO Marino is aiding and abetting death threats, in addition to making direct threats herself. As I understand it, death threats most definitely do not constitute protected speech.

Anj. if you were to spend a great deal of your life involved in rescue, you would understand better.
There is a vast difference between saving/rescuing and saving/hoarding.
.
A true hoarder of anything, be it plastic bags or poodles…by definition NEVER willingly parts with whatever they are hoarding, regardless of and without thought to the consequences.
For a rescue to turn ‘hoarder’, the end result might be the same but the motivation is entirely different.
A rescue turned ‘hoarder’ has tried countless times to find homes for unwanted animals in their care…
And failing this, they turn, in desperation, to keeping them…
The angst of so many homeless hopeless animals in one’s immediate care slowly begins to blind one to the realities of the difficulties involved in caring for so many.

May I suggest that you might revisit the part where they say ‘walk a mile in a man’s shoes’
before judging too harshly.

(recreating a comment that was sent just as I lost connectivity – apologies if there is any duplication)

My understanding is that Marino’s “feefeeble-minded proxies” have redoubled their vile harassment of Donal O’Leary, demanding that he drop his charges against her.

In point of fact, the charges are not Dr. O’Leary’s, nor does he have any power to have the charges dismissed.

Camille Marino is facing criminal contempt of court charges, which were drawn up by the judge in the case.

Marino, by her words and actions in defiance of the court, brought the charges upon herself.

Andreas @3 — to answer your rhetorical question, hunters have guns. These folks go for the softest of targets — undergrads.

Lisa (singing): “How many roads must a man walk down, before they call him a man?”

Homer: Seven!

Lisa: Dad, it’s a rhetorical question!

Homer: Uhhh ….. eight!

Lisa: Do you know what “rhetorical” means?

Homer (indignantly) : Do _I_ know what “rhetorical” means?

@8
andreas johansson asked

Obligatory rhetorical question about why these creeps target scientists and students rather than, say, hunters.

Because we tend to shoot back?

fusilier

James 2:24

On her blog, Marino refers to Dr. O’Leary as a “war criminal”. That tells me a lot about her justification for her behavior. She views herself as being at war (with “the establishment”, I presume) and therefore the traditional rules of acting responsibly and in accordance with the law simply no longer apply to her. This goes way beyond free speech and has ventured into the territory of treason and should be investigated and prosecuted as such, IMHO.

… and Al Capone went down for tax violations. So what? I say use all legal measures to take such sociopaths away from us.

Thanks for picking this up Orac, it was very satisfying to learn of Marino’s arrest, now I just hope that she gets a decent stretch of jail-time.

Camille Marino is a a violent and unhinged extremist, there’s no doubt about it, and her pretensions that what she does is free speech protected by the first amendment don’t fool anyone apart from her minions and supporters (including a certain professor at UTEP http://speakingofresearch.com/2011/12/20/best-of-friends-university-of-texas-professor-helps-to-fund-extremism/). Her behavior even got the attention of the SPLC – no strangers to all forms of extremism – who describe her as “radical animal liberation activist who advocates violence against scientists who use animals in their research” http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/02/06/radical-animal-rights-activist-arrested-at-university-of-florida/

Terry Ward “One might say though, that the pertwitzed Ms. Marino no more represents mainstream animal-rights then Fred Phelps represents Baptists or Dr. Mengele represents physicians.”

Don’t be so sure, it’s clear from media coverage and FaceBook comments (e.g. http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120206/ARTICLES/120209643/1150/news09?Title=Two-animal-rights-activist-arrested-at-protest) she has been working closely in recent weeks with an animal rights campaigner named Michael Budkie, whose group -Stop Animal Experimentation Now (SAEN) – likes to portray itself as a mainstream “watchdog” organization, and frequently gets media coverage with its allegations.

While we’re used to SAEN’s inaccuracies and misrepresentations, for a few examples out of many see http://speakingofresearch.com/2010/10/29/defending-against-the-inaccurate-and-sometimes-downright-false/, he has in the past distanced himself, in public at least, from the more violent extremists; that mask appears to be slipping.

Interesting no-one from the Harvey animal test
cult seems to be condemning what,in effect is
the torture of Ms Marino(whom they rightly or
wrongly assume to be Jewish)by threatening to
extradite her from tropical Florida to arctic
Michigan,all presumably to get `confessions` for
a Show Trial similar to that of John Brown or
Jesus Christ,both of whom used actual
violence,the latter to actually free blood
ritual animal abuse victims-an unforgivable
`crime` then as it seems to be now.

Assaulting and generally abusing women is of
course a trademark of the Pro-Test type cult
centered first around Tipu Aziz in Oxford.

HSUS`s First Strike program revealed that abuse of
animals,women,children and (often undiscovered)
serial killing usually come as a package.

Anyone open-minded,and in doubt,who hasn`t read
Paul Camster`s `Apocalypse`account of the blood
ritual cult`s origins and holocausts might find
convincing evidence in the post of`DJ`
16 Oct 2011, 06:14 at the forum about
the similarly depraved assault on Ms Dunbar(an associate of Ms Marino).
It details the plot by Harvey animal
test cult extremists to burn women alive-only to
be expected in the absence of a single apology
or condemnation from cult members:

http://artvoice.com/issues/v10n37/week_in_review/monkey_business/index_html

`dandover` | February 8, 2012 8:36 AM mentions
that Ms Marino called “Dr. O’Leary a “war criminal”.
If Dr. O’Leary is a member of the Harvey animal test cult,
technically, they never surrendered formally
from their state of war against their fellow
citizens(effectively a world war including North
America)when their allies did in 1646.
As their commander in chief(CharlesI) WAS convicted of
war-crimes AND treason,they are still
technically accomplices to that,and have never denied it.

OOOOOooooKKkkkaaaaayyyyy….

Let me throw this one out to the crowd: How many Timecubes should this guy be awarded?

Orac:

On the other hand, as much as I despise the woman, it’s a little concerning how she was arrested, basically for nothing more than having an expired drivers’ license, and how she’s been held.

Although in my state, expired driver’s licenses remain valid forms of identification, that isn’t true in Florida. According to the article, presenting an expired license as a form of ID is a midemeanor. I would suspect this has something to do with the relatively high rate of illegal immigration in that state. For a misdemeanor, one would probably normally be booked, arraigned, given a court date, and then released on their own recognizance. But once they ran her ID and found out about the violated court order, I’m sure the judge would not have been keen to do that.

Acleron:

For instance, is there no ‘Incitement to violence’ crime in the USA?

Yes, there is, but proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt can be difficult; IANAL, but I think you have to prove the defendent meant it as an incitement to violence rather than just saying stupid stuff or speaking metaphorically. (Stupidity and metaphors are generally protected speech. Death threats aren’t. In the end, it would probably come down to the quality of the lawyers.) I think it’s more often used as probable cause than as an actual criminal charge.

Not to derail, what was that link to the alt medicine with the “I sue, I sue, I sue” refrain?

This is really good news…and certainly ironic that she got arrested for an expired driver’s license. I looked up the Florida statute that applies:

Florida Statute 322.03 (5) applies to a driver whose license is expired for more than 4 months. It is a 2nd Degree Misdemeanor and a Criminal Traffic Charge. Penalties include 6 months County-supervised probation or 60 days in a County jail and/or $ 500 fine.

Was the renewal an “oversight” on her part or did she have unpaid moving or parking violations, that must be paid with late fees and fines before she could renew her license? Perhaps there were other civil judgments against her as well.

She is scheduled to be extradited to Michigan for violating the court order to remove the vicious threats made against Dr. O’Leary.

It’s about time that Universities crack down on these cranks who stalk their staff and their students.

It can’t be a crime to posess an expired drivers license. It is a crime to drive using an expired drivers license.

My guess is that #1 is correct and the cop ran it through the system and she showed up having a warrant against her.

I think it is SOP, to run people who present expired ID through the system because if you have a warrant against you, usually you can’t renew things like your drivers license.

#3
The reason they don’t is because we shoot back 🙂

No seriously, hunters perform an important service. If you had an overpopulation of deer you wind up with an overpopulation of wolves which is much, much worse.

As far as Ms Marino goes Orac, she brought this on herself. She presented an expired license, which the cop ran as a standard course of procedure. It came back she had a warrant for a violent crime. He arrested her. Period. Had she presented an unexpired license most likely nothing would have happened to her.

#21
There is no way these people are thinking that logically (hunters provide a service).

Researchers provide a service as well.
I think the posters that suggested that the extremists are avoiding targets that can shoot them is more likely 🙂

If you had an overpopulation of deer you wind up with an overpopulation of wolves which is much, much worse.

I like wolves, but not near human population centers. Also deer bring deer ticks which are dangerous. Hunt away, but save the drinking until after you put your guns away, please.

“a woman who is every bit as despicable–more so, even–than the most die-hard antivaccinationist”

But not the pro-lifers who like to shoot doctors for killing babies.

There are shades of crazy. She’s only quite mad, not entirely bonkers loony.

“Still, she’s been openly contemptuous not just of science and scientists, but of the law. Now she’s reaping what she herself has sown”

If you hadn’t shown some concern for the ability to abuse the law, even for ends you prefer to see, this would make me put you at the zealot end of the spectrum too.

I have no *pity* or *sympathy* for someone who doesn’t care about the law to be tromped by someone else who doesn’t care about the law.

But I *DO* *REALLY* care about someone in power in the law structure who doesn’t care about the law.

“Whatever quibbles I might have about how she’s been brought to justice or the conflict between the right to free speech versus where limits should be drawn to prevent harassment”

We’ll make a rationalist out of you yet 🙂 You don’t believe in quoting Voltaire at every turn and recognise that freedom of speech must have a purpose and should not be a panacea for purposed hysterical rabble rousing.

Scaring people is not terrible, but is still bad. You can get over fear. You can’t get over dead.

I’ve recently considered making my thesis about domestic terrorists, so this is excellent timing. She’s actually lucky they haven’t considered her a terrorist, yet. She pretty much fits the general definition.

“Many animal hoarders/abusers insist their animals are loved and cared for. The most socially adept of them portray themselves as rescuers and animal rights champions, which
results in some in the animal rights community defending and donating to them.”

Would this have anything to do with PETA? I recall the case where they ‘rescued’ many dogs and cats from good, loving homes and left them to die slow, painful deaths from starvation in concrete-floored cages within an old animal shelter because they hadn’t the resources to look after them properly.

This reminds me of a Drew Carey episode where Mimi is working the cosmetics counter and is asked if the cosmetics were tested on animals. “Yes, and they looked marvelous,” she replies.

In all seriousness, though, it’s not like these academic researchers are doing their work without IRB oversight. From what I remember when I was in school, you had to explain in detail what procedures you were going to use on the animals and how you would minimize their pain and prevent suffering. If you deviated one bit from that, your entire funding could get pulled and your project shut down.

Am I right?

Then why won’t she target IRBs (in a rational way) to make the restrictions even more stringent. I read her accounts of experiments on dogs at Wayne State, and it’s quite clear from my perspective that they’re either anecdotes or not based at all in reality.

I’m secretly hoping for the Zoolander troll to make his reappearance on this thread. He’s probably too busy with his various modeling and DJ gigs though.

Ah, those were the days.

@ Kelly #22

That’s also why you see the ARAs throwing blood on women wearing fur coats and not on bikers wearing leather. It’s hard to look tough and bully someone who can beat the crap out of you.

@Calli Arcale

The standard of proof in all criminal cases in the United States is beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond a shadow of a doubt. Probable cause is what is required to get a charge to trial. Of course laws vary from state to state, but many states have some form of “terroristic threats” which means you can’t say things about hurting someone that puts that person in fear that you might actually carry your threats out out. People are convicted of it all the time.

@Calli Arcale

The standard of proof in all criminal cases in the United States is beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond a shadow of a doubt. Probable cause is what is required to get a charge to trial. Of course laws vary from state to state, but many states have some form of “terroristic threats” which means you can’t say things about hurting someone that puts that person in fear that you might actually carry your threats out out. People are convicted of it all the time.

@ Ren #30

You’re thinking of IACUCs (animal care and use committees)…IRBs cover human subjects. They serve the same purpose – maintaining ethical & humane standards. And yes, you have to fill out a long form and go in front of a committee which includes veterinarians & ethicists before you can start your study. They can & do reject studies.

This lovely woman is 100% against all animal testing, so she doesn’t care about IACUC oversight. She wants the whole system destroyed.

Call me a cynic, but I tend to think it depends on the quality of the lawyers whether or not they get convicted. Poor, barely literate guy? Yeah, he’ll get convicted. Animals rights activist with passionate supporters? They’ll want to be sure they have all the goods before going to trial, since prosecutors generally don’t get a “do-over”.

You’re right, though — it’s reasonable doubt, not shadow of a doubt. I need coffee….

One thing to remember about IACUC and IRBs is that they are required to have a member of the community at large on them. So a person who is concerned about animal welfare (or human welfare, for that matter) is always welcome to volunteer for an IACUC or IRB and participate in efforts to ensure that experimentation is humane and sensible. You’d think animal rights activists would be drawn to them, but apparently not.

I was all excited when I read Acleron’s post — the idea of a “hunting catapult” sounded cool as hell! Alas, it’s just what the Brits call a slingshot. Then again, if the animal welfare whackjobs start with catapults, can trebuchets be far behind?

It can’t be a crime to posess an expired drivers license. It is a crime to drive using an expired drivers license.

The Florida statutes are so heavily cross-referenced that I’m having trouble getting a bearing on it, but it appears that they might have a general surrender requirement akin to an address-update requirement. I’ve seen one story reporting that Grossman had a suspended license, which Fla. Stat. 322.251 definitely requires surrender of.

For any OPEN minds on here, some info and research:
Animal Welfare or Animal Rights?

Here are some of the differences:
As animal welfare advocates. . .

• We seek to improve the treatment and well-being of animals.
• We support the humane treatment of animals that ensures comfort and freedom from unnecessary pain and suffering.
• We believe we have the right to “own” animals — they are our property.
• We believe animal owners should provide loving care for the lifetime of their animals.

As animal rights activists. . .

• They seek to end the use and ownership of animals, including the keeping of pets.
• They believe that any use of an animal is exploitation so, not only must we stop using animals for food and clothing, but pet ownership must be outlawed as well.
• They want to obtain legal rights for animals as they believe that animals and humans are equal.
• They use false and unsubstantiated allegations of animal abuse to raise funds, attract media attention and bring supporters into the movement.
• (The Inhumane Crusade, Daniel T. Oliver – Capital Research Center)
For more information:
http://www.cfodconline.org/
http://www.humanewatch.com
http://www.bewareanimalradicals.com
http://www.petpac.net/
http://www.exposeanimalrights.com/
http://www.naiaonline.org
http://www.saveourdogs.net
http://www.nathanwinograd.com
http://www.saova.org

First of all, you can be arrested without charges and held. It’s called pre-charge detention.

Second, when you’ve committed a crime and there is an arrest warrant out for you. It’s perfectly normal in any civilized society to extradite the accused where the matter will be handled in the proper channels.

Let’s be clear. She’s a fugitive. She may be innocent. But she’s still a fugitive. And nothing here is sleazy in any sort of police-power-abuse scenario.

And, believe me, I’m not a police/cop fan. I rather don’t trust them, and for good reason, my step dad was a cop and I know way too many cops.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120206/ARTICLES/120209643

Camille Marino and Lisa Grossman, part of the animal rights group Negotiation is Over, were protesting outside the Gator Gala awards ceremony at Emerson Alumni Hall. Gainesville police arrested Marino on an out-of-state warrant and Grossman for a suspended driver’s license.

Powerful pieces of law ‘out of state/extradition’ warrants

She may be innocent.

Huh? She failed to comply with a personal protection order, continues to be out of compliance, and made a point of publicly thumbing her nose at the court. That ship has sailed for cat-killer Marino.

@ sophia8 and @ kruuth REALLY??? genuine animal abusers? and hunters are doing a service? Are you kidding? Is that what you all tell yourself so you can sleep at night? and So you can do your so called “Jobs” Which is scientific fruad at the tax payers expense

REALLY??? genuine animal abusers? and hunters are doing a service? Are you kidding? Is that what you all tell yourself so you can sleep at night?

OK, pick your species. Better yet, pick endemic chronic wasting disease versus a healthy deer population; hobby deer hunters seem to prefer the former, just by the way.

Nature manages itself through size of habitat, availability of food and water, natural predators, severe weather conditions. Urban development’s destruction of wildlife habitat calls for the establishment of refuges—not sport hunting. If hunting is “necessary” to control overpopulation and prevent “nuisance-animals,” why is this argument applied only to white-tailed deer? Reality: Most states deliberately boost deer populations to provide prey for hunters. State game agencies allow hunting to “manage” artificially stimulated “surplus animals.” There are no surpluses in nature. Ecology functions in natural cycles.
White-tailed deer account for only 2% (6 million) of the 200 million animals killed yearly by hunters. 25% (50 million) are morning doves and 15% (30 million) are squirrels. Millions more are geese and ducks. Have you ever heard the wildlife-management excuse applied to doves, ducks, or geese? In fact, wildlife managers restrict waterfowl killings so that species don’t become extinct! Sport hunting does not exist to manage wildlife. Sport hunting exists as “enjoyable recreation.”

and what endemic chronic wasting disease might you be referring to? whatever it is hunting has no effect on it.

Seems like an enormous amount of drama dedicated to one somewhat unhinged person.

@Narad Urban development’s destruction of wildlife habitat calls for the establishment of refuges—not sport hunting. If hunting is “necessary” to control overpopulation and prevent “nuisance-animals,” why is this argument applied only to white-tailed deer? Reality: Most states deliberately boost deer populations to provide prey for hunters. State game agencies allow hunting to “manage” artificially stimulated “surplus animals.” There are no surpluses in nature. Ecology functions in natural cycles.

White-tailed deer account for only 2% (6 million) of the 200 million animals killed yearly by hunters. 25% (50 million) are morning doves and 15% (30 million) are squirrels. Millions more are geese and ducks. Have you ever heard the wildlife-management excuse applied to doves, ducks, or geese? In fact, wildlife managers restrict waterfowl killings so that species don’t become extinct! Sport hunting does not exist to manage wildlife. Sport hunting exists as “enjoyable recreation.”

Terry do you know Camille, do you know that she is “Unhinged” no you don’t, that is the vivisectionist tactic is to dismiss Animal Rights people as crazy. It takes the heat off of you. There are some who will do what it takes to get you to stop. You know your fake experiments that you perform with your goverment grants that you get based on lies that the pharmacutical companies tell because after all money makes the world go round! follow the money

What Quenie went through is not mentioned by any of you..presumably you are unable to empathise..i call this psychosis.you may be gloating now while camille is detained but later on down the line your families or friends may fall foul of these laws, not so funny then maybe.Do you ever stop to think what motivates aras?Some people find animal suffering hard to take or understand..it hurts them to know that animals are locked in labs..frightened and in pain for years..unable to consent to their use,in situations they dont understand. Do scientists think they are the masterace?Maybe lab animals are todays holocaust victims..i dont expect any of you to agree with me and i dont care..Thank goodness i dont think like you do and i can live my life knowing i cause no intentional harm..we all know disease is caused by crap food..pollution, lack of exercise etc. animal testing is outdated..we are not pigs or rats..you are in it for the money i guess..thats whats wrong with the world, the mental illness of greed…a creatures suffering will be a joke to you..good luck with the rest of your lives and thank god i am not like you.

You know your fake experiments that you perform with your goverment grants that you get based on lies that the pharmacutical companies tell because after all money makes the world go round! follow the money

That sounds like an animal rights wingnut tactic. No has to “know” someone personally to make an obvious assumption about their character, particularly when that person vomits their detritus all over the interwebz. And gee, no one made a cent on my animal testing but I did produce some stellar results that benefit sorry little gits like you.

@Dan #39:

I was all excited when I read Acleron’s post — the idea of a “hunting catapult” sounded cool as hell! Alas, it’s just what the Brits call a slingshot.

We also have War Wolves.

Science Mom, your tests will never ever benefit me or anyone. that is another lie you people tell yourselves. Animals and humans react differently to substances and some drugs are carcinogenic in humans but not in animals, or vice-versa.
So how can you extrapolate accurate results? My mother what given Benedictine for morning sickness, proved safe on rats and monkeys my brother was born severely mentally retarded. What you do is fake scientific fruad

@Alafair #51

Reading Marino’s NIO website, which I have done in the past, is enough to tell she’s unhinged. No knowing her personally is necessary – and in fact, it’s something I’d avoid to the last.

Benedictine? The liqueur, the condiment, or the monk of the Order of St. Benedict?

Scientific “fruad (sic)” or not, you need to back up your claims with evidence, Alafair. Tell us what you call “Benedictine” and cite some source where it is linked to mental retardation in utero. Should be easy, right?

@Adam, I too am counting the minutes until Zoolander, our super awesome, super goodlooking, supermodel, animal rights activist returns to the fray. He was my favorite troll of all time, even if he failed to show for our dance-off.

he progress that has been made in the study of AIDS has come from human clinical investigation and in vitro (cell and tissue culture) research. Animal models continue to be used even though they do not develop the human AIDS virus. The development of life saving protease inhibitors was delayed by misleading monkey data. Referring to efforts to develop an AIDS vaccine, leading AIDS researcher Dr. Mark Feinberg stated: “What good does it do you to test something in a monkey? You find five or six years from now that it works in the monkey, and then you test it in humans and you realize that humans behave totally differently from monkeys, so you’ve wasted five years”.

Clearly, if we are going to make medical progress, a new approach is needed. Human medicine can no longer be based on veterinary medicine. It is fraudulent and dangerous to apply data from one species to another. There are endless examples of the differences between humans and non-human animals.
1.PCP is a sedative for chimps
2.Penicillin kills cats and guinea pigs but has saved many human lives.
3.Arsenic is not poisonous to rats, mice, or sheep.
4.Morphine is a sedative for humans but is a stimulant for cats, goats, and horses.
5.Digitalis while dangerously raising blood pressure in dogs continues to save countless cardiac patients by lowering heart rate.
The National Institutes of Health alone pours well over five billion dollars annually into superfluous animal experimentation. Abolishing animal research will mean these resources could be redirected into prevention and the types of research which actually have a chance of advancing human medicine and human health.

It’s always interesting to me how you so-called “scientists” can be so self-righteous and smug and act outraged and call animal defenders terrorists. When in reality, you are the ones torturing, maiming, mutilating, and killing. It would be hilarious if not for the pain you inflict without batting an eyelash. And sciencemom, if there are any “little gits” in here, it’s you!

Ren just google Bendictine and morning sickness and you will find plenty and you would make a joke out of someone else’s misfortune

No Ren is making fun of our misfortune (being stuck with unhinged people like you).

Also,
Protip: Just googling shit does not necessarily/usually lead you to reliable information. On the plus side, this explains a whole lot about how you came to your understanding of the world.

@alafair

You made the claim, you must provide the evidence. And ancetdotal evidence and telling us to google for it doesn’t count.

So post something, preferably from a quality peer-reviewed journal.

Sshould be easy for you, right?

My point is that animals and people do not react the same in testing so how can you produce safe products based on crap research and testing? The progress that has been made in the study of AIDS has come from human clinical investigation and in vitro (cell and tissue culture) research. Animal models continue to be used even though they do not develop the human AIDS virus. The development of life saving protease inhibitors was delayed by misleading monkey data. Referring to efforts to develop an AIDS vaccine, leading AIDS researcher Dr. Mark Feinberg stated: “What good does it do you to test something in a monkey? You find five or six years from now that it works in the monkey, and then you test it in humans and you realize that humans behave totally differently from monkeys, so you’ve wasted five years”.

Clearly, if we are going to make medical progress, a new approach is needed. Human medicine can no longer be based on veterinary medicine. It is fraudulent and dangerous to apply data from one species to another. There are endless examples of the differences between humans and non-human animals.
1.PCP is a sedative for chimps
2.Penicillin kills cats and guinea pigs but has saved many human lives.
3.Arsenic is not poisonous to rats, mice, or sheep.
4.Morphine is a sedative for humans but is a stimulant for cats, goats, and horses.
5.Digitalis while dangerously raising blood pressure in dogs continues to save countless cardiac patients by lowering heart rate.
The National Institutes of Health alone pours well over five billion dollars annually into superfluous animal experimentation. Abolishing animal research will mean these resources could be redirected into prevention and the types of research which actually have a chance of advancing human medicine and human health.

the moderator is choosing what to postand what not to post of my comments so i am outta here and this probably wont be posted either

do you know Camille, do you know that she is “Unhinged” no you don’t

Good point. It is wrong to assume that someone is deranged when “”morally corrupt” or “stupid and self-dramatising” are also available as explanations.

They have drawn the complaint of PCRM ,a well respected group.

Well respected? Now, that’s just hilarious.

Animal hoarders are a varied lot.

I’m more interested in community response to hoarders, which ranges from ignoring them, supporting them WRT to hoarders who use the “Rescue” front, prosecuting them and even exploiting them by dumping animals on the properties of known hoarders.

Getting authorities to realize that hoarding is a symptom of mental illness is essential, since the relapse rate of hoarding is one of the highest known.

The most famous case involving the drug is Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals (1993). These suits were led by plaintiff attorney Melvin Belli.[4] The star witness for the case against Bendectin, William McBride, was later found to have falsified research on teratogenic effects of the drug, and was struck off the medical register in Australia.[5][6]

My heart goes out to your poor mother. Did she have any children who weren’t mentally disabled?

alafair said,

the moderator is choosing what to postand what not to post of my comments so i am outta here and this probably wont be posted either

Moron. If you actually spent a little time here you would realize that almost nothing gets blocked and that dissenting opinions, no matter how stupid, end up getting posted. However, there is automatic moderation and if you post too many times in a short time period, or include too many links, your posts are likely to get held up but will likely eventually be posted. See, there is a nice, simple explanation for your woe. It is amazing how many people immediately assume they are being repressed. I wonder how many animal rights blogs have such an open commenting policy. My guess would be that their comment policy has more similarity to AoA than here.

Of course, if you have gone already you will not see this. But I have seen so many people flounce I imagine it is likely you will see it.

just google Bendictine and morning sickness and you will find plenty

Perhaps there are different Googles, or the personalisation of searches goes further than I realised. What *I* encountered was a interminable list of research reports, agreeing that Bendectin was a useful drug for keeping people of hospital, with no increased risk of birth defects that anyone can find.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: