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Time to rally the troops against the antivaccine movement

Every so often, I think it’s worthwhile to try to use my powers (such as they are) for good. Actually, I like to think that I’m using my powers for good each and every day, but obviously there are some who disagree. In general, these people are cranks. We’re talking quacks, pseudoscientists, antivaccinationists, and various antiscience types. But I repeat myself. Right now, I see two things going on right now that could use some help from pro-science, pro-skepticism types.

First up, I found out a couple of days ago that Brian Deer will be in the U.S. next week. Specifically, he’ll be at the University of Wisconsin La Crosse, where he will be speaking as part of the Distinguished Lecture Series in Life Sciences. There, he’ll be giving two talks, one on Thursday, October 4, entitled An Elaborate Fraud: The MMR Vaccine & Autism, and a second one on Friday, October 5, entitled Stiletto Journalism: Busting the Vaccine Scare. I saw Brian speak three years ago, and he’s quite good. So if you’re interested in the antivaccine movement and can find a way to make it to La Crosse on a weekday (admittedly a problem for a lot of us, even people who, unlike me, live within a reasonable drive of the town), it would be well worth your while to check out one or both of Brian’s talks.

If that’s not enough motivation, there’s this. The Dark Lord of Antivaccine Pseudoscience himself, Andrew Wakefield, will apparently be there on Thursday to…well, it’s not clear what, other than to whine:

Some who’ve had the misfortune of meeting Deer describe him as reptilian and repulsive. Others would describe him in less flattering terms. Setting the sleaze factor aside, Deer’s legacy of slander and libel signify a far grimier, foul and filthy place than most of us would care to venture. Deer is the invention, the dark underbelly, the hideous caricature of those who deny an MMR-autism connection in order to protect themselves. He assuages the conscience of those without one, and scrubs clean the crime scene. Vicious and small, Deer’s pious position is untenable and in short order he will be hunted to ground and brought to justice.

Soon the full truth will be uncovered, revealing Deer for what he is. In January Dr. Wakefield filed a defamation lawsuit against Deer, the BMJ, and Fiona Godlee, its editor. Currently under review by the 3rd Circuit Court in Texas, the question before proceeding to trial is: Does Texas have jurisdiction? We are extremely confident the appeals court will rule in Dr. Wakefield’s favor within the next few months.

Quick to anger (as only the guilty are), Deer is easily flustered, delusional, and fancies himself a dandy in a Dickensian sort of sense. With the grace of a sloth and his own worst enemy, Deer is the wannabe bon vivant whose future claim to fame will be as a case history at Harvard Law School about how not to act in front of a jury. In court his testimony will doom the BMJ and himself, and open the floodgates of suppressed corruption.

PRESS CONFERENCE & PRESENTATION SCHEDULE

Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s Press Conference: 1 pm Thursday, October 4, University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. Exact location to be provided.

Brian Deer’s presentation schedule, location, and abstracts: click here.

Join us if you can – or for more information or to volunteer, please email [email protected]

In a few weeks we will have a complete update and analysis on the lawsuit.

It might be nice if local skeptical groups (La Crosse Area Freethought Society and La Crosse Secular Student Society, here’s your chance) stepped up to the plate with a little skeptical activism. Looking at the map, I see that there are also other cities within striking distance (i.e., less than 150 miles away or so), such as Minneapolis, home to the Minnesota Skeptics, and Madison, home of, appropriately enough, Madison Skeptics. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Wakefield tried to make trouble by crashing one of Deer’s talks. Rumor has it that he’s currently involved in making an antivaccine movie, although I can’t find out anything about it, which makes me unsure of the rumors. I can totally see Wakefield using this opportunity for some “dramatic footage.”

Finally, there’s the issue of AB 2109, a bill in California that would require parents to visit a doctor or other health care provider for informed consent about the consequences of not vaccinating before they could obtain a philosophical exemption to school vaccine mandates. It’s something I’ve written about multiple times, in particular the apocalyptic language from, of all people, Rob Schneider, who has compared AB 2109 to Nazi-ism and labeled it a violation of the Nuremberg Code. In any case, the bill passed both chambers of the California legislature and has been sitting on Governor Jerry Brown’s desk. For some reason, Governor Brown has not yet signed the bill, and he’s under a lot of pressure to veto it. Antivaccinationists and Tea Party “health freedom” activists have teamed up to protest, and they’re planning a rally tomorrow:

Californians, if you want to make it at least as inconvenient to get a philosophical exemption as it is to get children vaccinated, if you want to decrease the number of nonmedical exemptions and thereby prevent the degradation of herd immunity that is occurring in your very own state, now’s the time to get active. Governor Brown needs to know that there is a lot of support for the bill and that there will be political consequences for vetoing it. That can only happen if you let him know. It would also be great to have some pro-vaccine demonstrators to counter what is likely to be a whole lot of antivaccine demonstrators in Sacramento tomorrow.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

264 replies on “Time to rally the troops against the antivaccine movement”

Wakefield’s character assassination of Brian Deer is eerily remniscent of Christopher Monckton’s shtick. Is it something in the water over in the UK that makes their cranks so vicious?

Or is it a universal phenomenon among cranks & charlatans?

Bummer.

It’s easier for me to see the Da Prez, the First Lady, CEO Romney and CFO Ryan than to see Brian Deer or Andrew Wakefield.

I appreciate anyone who can make it. If there’s a youtube, post a link for the virtual denizens of the internet!

Calling someone a reptilian is flattering? (Or at least there are less flatting ways to describe someone?) I’m not sure about that, although I love reptiles and snakes.

I suppose calling mr. Wakefield mad as a hatter is the most flattering thing I can think of.

Exact location to be provided.

AKA “we don’t want to tell you so you can’t protest.”
Chickenshite little tossers.

“Some who’ve had the misfortune of meeting Deer describe him as reptilian and repulsive. Others would describe him in less flattering terms. Setting the sleaze factor aside, Deer’s legacy of slander and libel signify a far grimier, foul and filthy place than most of us would care to venture. Deer is the invention, the dark underbelly, the hideous caricature of those who deny an MMR-autism connection in order to protect themselves. He assuages the conscience of those without one, and scrubs clean the crime scene. Vicious and small, Deer’s pious position is untenable and in short order he will be hunted to ground and brought to justice.”

Is Marsha McClelland Wakefield’s PR rep?

Not in Michigan, but I did send this letter to the Gov:

Dear Governor Brown:

I am, like many Californians, a transplant to this fair state. I moved here for work at the beginning of 2007, and have been a happily employed and engaged resident of California since then.

I came here to work as a scientist. One of the major reasons I originally chose this career path is the massive potential scientific discovery has to make all humans live healthier and longer lives.

One of the greatest public health advances of the modern era has been vaccination, a low-risk, inexpensive, and effective intervention. Vaccines have eliminated smallpox; they have reduced the incidence and severity of many other diseases that are killers and maimers of children. AB 2109 is a very reasonable measure to ensure that parents that wish to avoid vaccinating their children are aware of the health risks to themselves and others by doing so, and the legislature sensibly passed this bill.

However, a vocal subset of well-intentioned but highly misinformed residents are trying to convince you to veto this bill. Please allow rationality and concern for public health be your guide, and sign this bill into law.

My thanks,

me

Actually, Wakefield has a lovely voice, totally easy on the ear and I find Deer distinctly more difficult to listen to. However, the former lies as he breathes and the latter, while sometimes appearing a little bit full of himself (rightfully so), generally speaks the truth. Alas – I am too far away to lend Brian Deer my support…

Sigh… If I were still stateside I’d be SO willing to head out to Wisconsin for that talk.

And as far as Wakefield: my thoughts can be summed up quite neatly: EAD.

@ Rebecca Fisher:

The line that really got me concerns the “Dickensian.. dandy” et *bon vivant*- just hilarious! though unintentionally so. I think EA confabulated this scenario after perusing BD’s website which includes an ancient photo of a fellow who is probably an ancestor.

LIke no one has photos of their ancestors – or likes them. Seriously, an elderly relative of mine gave me a photo of her father, a well-dressed Victorian, who looked just like me.. but somewhat less feminine. It’s almost scarey but I enjoy looking at his photo: you can see genetics at work, I understand that we have other things in common: I wish I knew him!

The anti-vax league have some very odd obsessive tendencies and should carefully observe their OWN ways of interpretting the world and other people’s actions.

@ Orac:

About that film:
you jogged my memory:
I recall that recently the Grand Poobah of woo mentioned that he had ‘interviewed’ AJW and also – at another time- that he will be making another shlockumentary about vaccines ( see PRN for a list of his earlier efforts).

Now you may understand why Lord Draconis pays me so well: I keep my fingers on the pulse of woo – and am careful to wash them thoroughly afterwards.

Newly discovered, totally exonerating documents from Natural News? Sounds legit… *narrowed Fry-eyes*

It is nice to hear someone speaking up for vaccinations. I have been doing a personal exploration of alternative medicine and I have been shocked by the negative propaganda posted in regards to routine vaccinations. I was shocked to see claims that the flu vaccine caused alzheimers disease!

That AoA piece comes from the green ink filled pen of Wakefield groupie Ed Arranga

Rebecca, do we have you to thank for the secrecy surrounding Wankers speaking location? 😀

Not in Wisconsin or California, but I think there are other ways to support these efforts. Sent a couple emails.

Actually Rob Schneider called AB 2109 a violation of the Nuremburg *Laws*, thereby proving that his ignorance stretches across more than one area of knowledge. Unless, of course, somewhere in the Nuremburg Laws it was made illegal to withhold vaccination from German Jews.

Orac…You missed Anne Dachel’s article about the bot’s activity at the San Francisco Gate “Parents Can’t Sue Vaccine Manufacturers.”

Yup, the Dachel bot is on the move again and urging her groupies to spam the article.

http://www.sfgate.com/health/articleComments/Parents-can-t-sue-vaccine-manufacturers-3894230.php

I’ve just posted and I also got some points across about AoA and other notorious anti-vaccine blogs…suggesting that the SF Gate do an article on these anti-vaccine blogs and their collective agendas.

One of the AoA posters asked “I wonder if they’ll let Jake in?”

If the Carney Barker is going to have a press conference, shouldn’t we expect that Jake will be lapping at his heels? (He has already stated that he intended to be in court in Austin to *support* Andy.)

Almost a completely content free release–when you excise all the ad hominems all that’s left are two trivial statements of fact and one sentence expressing wishful thinking:

“In January Dr. Wakefield filed a defamation lawsuit against Deer, the BMJ, and Fiona Godlee, its editor. ” (fact)

“Currently under review by the 3rd Circuit Court in Texas, the question before proceeding to trial is: Does Texas have jurisdiction?” (fact)

“We are extremely confident the appeals court will rule in Dr. Wakefield’s favor within the next few months.” (wishful thinking)

“We are extremely confident the appeals court will rule in Dr. Wakefield’s favor within the next few months.” (wishful thinking)

@JCG, while it is certainly wishful-thinking on “their” part, they had better be careful what they wish for.

Such a shame this is so far from me. You’re right Orac, he’s definitely good at giving talks and hopefully he can shut down that little AoA twerp if he shows up. My favorite line from the Wakefield camp:

“Currently under review by the 3rd Circuit Court in Texas, the question before proceeding to trial is: Does Texas have jurisdiction? We are extremely confident the appeals court will rule in Dr. Wakefield’s favor within the next few months.”

Texas may be woo-friendly but their courts are also very tight on jurisdictions(I got out of a moving violation when I lived there b/c of it) and the chances of this judge being overruled are infinitesimal to none. I’d wager that unless they could prove that the judge was drunk, bribed, coerced, etc. then this is going to get thrown out on it’s proverbial butt.

The only problem is that regardless of the outcome, the anti-vax nimrods out there will spin it as either a victory in court, or further proof that the judicial system is corrupt by “big pharma”

“Vicious and small, Deer’s pious position is untenable and in short order he will be hunted to ground and brought to justice.”

Another day, another instance of rhetoric using violent imagery from the anti-vaccine monsters.

So Deer is reptilian, and repulsive, and even worse he SLANDERS PEOPLE?
OK.
I also get that he serves the purpose of assuaging the consciences of people who don’t have consciences to assuage.

a dandy in a Dickensian sort of sense
I have no idea of what this phrase is even trying to say. Perhaps the author has confounded the Regency and Victorian eras, but anyone capable of writing “Sort of sense” should be stripped of his computer privileges at the library.

All Californians thank you, Orac. I think I will actually go to Sacto (depends on a couple of moving pieces).

The only problem is that regardless of the outcome, the anti-vax nimrods out there will spin it as either a victory in court, or further proof that the judicial system is corrupt by “big pharma”

They can try but I will be happy to remind them of how they crowed that Wankers could only get a fair trial in the U.S.

You’re right Orac, he’s definitely good at giving talks and hopefully he can shut down that little AoA twerp if he shows up.

I would pay money to see that and I have no doubt someone will fly Jake out there to make a fool of himself.

@ Kruuth:

Jake already blogged about the judge in Texas who ruled against Wakefield…his usual *Six, Sixty, Six Hundred Degrees of Separation/Bob’s Your Uncle” screed.

@ Science Mom:

Jake’s mommy is an heiress to a fortune and she is the owner of a prosperous business, left to her by father, in Austin Texas. He comes from a very *privileged* background and his mommy is totally into the anti-vaccine woo…she’ll be paying the freight to send him out to Wisconsin

Since I won’t be able to hear Deer’s talk, I’ll just thank him here for his tireless work in exposing dangerous lies from pharmaceutical firms and from corrupt ex-doctors.

That’s my university! I think I can even go to the Thursday talk (Usually aimed at a more general audience than the Friday talk). Unfortunately, Wakefield might conflict with my schedule. Anything in particular people are interested in about Brian Deer’s talk?

@ herr doktor bimler:

My own take on Arranga’s rather bizarre statement ( @ 12:04 pm)..
I personally take “dandy” to signify a sartorially splendid gentleman **, independent of historical era, although perhaps usually associated with the times of Beau Brummel to the Late Victorian era- not necessarily Dickens’ times.

However, it is possible that EA really means something ELSE but he is too cowardly to say it. Prejudiced people often telegraph hidden meanings to their cohorts thinking that no one else can pick up on it..

** perhaps even a lady, why not?.

Regarding Wakefield v. Deer: A serious question.

Deer has posted the August 1997 draft of the now-withdrawn Lancet paper that was submitted a few months later and published in February 2008. The discrepancies seem damning: as Fiona Godlee noted, Wakefield’s concocted “an elaborate fraud.”

Here’s the question: Has Wakefield ever shown that all the changes between the August draft and the paper that he submitted soon thereafter were due to typos, was he just unable to keep track of the data for twelve patients, or has he offered some other explanation for the myriad changes, along with an explanation of why, although most scientists start with the data and then write a paper, he chose to write a paper and then change the data?

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-1997.htm
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-versions.htm
http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452

Perhaps Wakefield will address this at his press conference.

I’ve had a lively email discussion with the author/staff of this article http://www.sfgate.com/health/articleComments/Parents-can-t-sue-vaccine-manufacturers-3894230.php

I complained that the Dachel bot was going off-topic and was spamming the article. I provided Dachel’s AoA blog to the San Francisco Gate, where she was bragging about her spamming comments and I urged the author to review the bot’s spam:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/09/parents-can-not-sue-vaccine-manufacturers-for-injury.html

Suddenly, the Dachel’s spamming comments are gone.

** perhaps even a lady, why not?.
“Dandizette”, says the Whackyweeida, if you want the a specific historical counterpart… or ‘Quaintrelle’ as a general, less history-bound term.

it is possible that EA really means something ELSE but he is too cowardly to say it
If you believe the Einstuerzende Neubauten lyrics, “Death is a Dandy”… which would be apposite for EA’s intentions but possibly too obscure.

but possibly too obscure

Did you know that “death is a dandy” + “it’s a rainy day” yields but one Google search result?

MESSAGE BEGINS————————–

Well, what can be said Shills and Minions?

There it is in black and white. “Reptilian and repulsive.” Just what exactly are we to make of this aliterative word pairing? Clearly the maverick, health freedom fighters have discovered Mr. Deer’s, shall we say, “heritage.” This isn’t what disturbs me however. Yes, I know he’s “vicious and small,” but he’s from the lineage of the K’throbey clade and they’re one of the smaller Glaxxon subspecies, nothing to be ashamed of. It’s the whole “repulsive” business that has my crest in a bunch. I really think they’ve gone a bridge too far this time. And what’s with the whole “with the grace of a Sloth and his own worst enemy?” I find sloths to be rather graceful, if a tad glacial in their movements. And who is this worst enemy that will be accompanying him? Honestly, it makes no sense to take one’s own worst enemy to Harvard Law School to release a floodgate of suppessed corruption. Aren’t we the suppressed corruption? Am I missing something here? Shills? Minions? Anybody?

Well, we shall have to show up en masse to support loyal Shill Deer, who has served our subjugation efforts so tirelessly.

Repulsive? Get me my thranzor . . .

Lord Draconis Zeneca VH7ihL

Forward Mavoon of the Great Fleet, Subjugator General of Terra, Large and Vicious and I’ll show you Repulsive you chakvetz khaaks . . .

Glaxxon PharmaCOM Terrabase DIA
0000000110101110111100010001

————————-MESSAGE ENDS

MESSAGE BEGINS————————–

Well, what can be said Shills and Minions?

There it is in black and white. “Reptilian and repulsive.” Just what exactly are we to make of this aliterative word pairing? Clearly the maverick, health freedom fighters have discovered Mr. Deer’s, shall we say, “heritage.” This isn’t what disturbs me however. Yes, I know he’s “vicious and small,” but he’s from the lineage of the K’throbey clade and they’re one of the smaller Glaxxon subspecies, nothing to be ashamed of. It’s the whole “repulsive” business that has my crest in a bunch. I really think they’ve gone a bridge too far this time. And what’s with the whole “with the grace of a Sloth and his own worst enemy?” I find sloths to be rather graceful, if a tad glacial in their movements. And who is this worst enemy that will be accompanying him? Honestly, it makes no sense to take one’s own worst enemy to Harvard Law School to release a floodgate of suppessed corruption. Aren’t we the suppressed corruption? Am I missing something here? Shills? Minions? Anybody?

Well, we shall have to show up en masse to support loyal Shill Deer, who has served our subjugation efforts so tirelessly.

Repulsive? Get me my thranzor . . .

Lord Draconis Zeneca VH7ihL

Forward Mavoon of the Great Fleet, Subjugator General of Terra, Large and Vicious and I’ll show you Repulsive you chakvetz khaaks . . .

Glaxxon PharmaCOM Terrabase DIA
0000000110101110111100010001

————————-MESSAGE ENDS

Clearly the maverick, health freedom fighters have discovered Mr. Deer’s, shall we say, “heritage.”

I always suspected that Brian Deer was far to effective to be a mere mammal.

Troops have been already rallied against those opting out of vaccination since Jenner wanted to inoculate animal pus into healthy children.

What troops really need to be rallied for is to apply Evidence Based Medicine, born in 1990, to all the junk science inherited since Jenner’s times and still accepted today by inertia and/or financial interest.

My dearest Lord Draconis,

Yes, you are missing something here indeed. It’s called METAPHOR: it is not meant to be taken literally.

People call other people they don’t like ‘reptiles’; they don’t like the guy so they call him ‘reptilian’. People are warm and fuzzy creatures and tend to distance themselves from the cool and scaly. I know it’s prejudicial.
For some odd reason, people call others they don’t like animals: this has always astounded me because animals are innocent- they can’t plot and scheme, plan out ways to mislead others, misrepresent themselves, fix data or even use metaphors correctly : it’s called executive function and animals don’t have it. Only people can be nasty, barely literate spewers of venomous invective, unflinchingly corrupt prevaricators and unredeemable frauds.

Remember when someone called my assistant a WASP and you assumed he was insectoid? News flash to you, it just means ‘white boy’. Appellations like ‘lounge lizard’ and ‘trouser snake’ are purely metaphorical as you have surely learned in your commerce with us.

Although you still haven’t gotten the hang of our quaint and creative usage of the Mother Tongue ( another metaphor), you manage to communicate rather well with us especially when bonus time rolls around. Take care, my scaly master and provider of luxury goods.

Sincerely,
DW

Let’s be short and to the point: My baby, my world, my life, my problem! Buzz off!

The bottom line for Californians and everyone else: fuck exemptions, just don’t vaccinate! There are no legal grounds to force invasive medical procedures on unconsenting persons unless a judges rules there’s a emergency situation, and there’s none.

@putin

Still smarting after you got your butt handed over to you several times over?

And I see you still espouse anti-Semitic, AIDS-denialist, anti-vaccine views.

Ah, el deshonesto y anti-semita de “PutinReloaded” asoma su cabecita para que crean sus colegas que aun es de importancia. ¿Qué pasa, Putin? ¿No tienes suficientes visitas a tu blog? ¿A caso ha censurado a demasiados lectores?

So Mr. Putin decided to join us? We must be special.

I made the mistake of trying to reason with this anti-semitic, AIDS-denying mother[redacted], and what does he counter with?

He counters with epidemiologic studies while, at the same time, he attacks epidemiology as a “pseudoscience”. What a joke.

Let’s be short and to the point: My baby, my world, my life, my problem! Buzz off!

Do have the courtesy to do the same, particularly with respect to the public schools.

@PR

There are no legal grounds to force invasive medical procedures

You don’t know the law very well, do you?

Let’s be short and to the point: My baby, my world, my life, my problem! Buzz off!

If lived in a society based on those principles, then murder and theft would not be crimes.

@pr

And you still are as ignorant as ever.

Please, keep entertaining us, little puppet. It’s so amsuing to see one so unhinged as yourself make a fool of himself/herself/itself.

My baby, my world, my life, my problem! Buzz off!

Are we to understand then that we should similarly “buzz off” if you decided to not give your baby any food?

“It’s my business” only flies when your actions are not bringing preventable, predictable, harm to an innocent third party for whose welfare you are responsible.

Apparently EA’s criterion for scientific validity is whether he finds the person sexually attractive. Well, at least he didn’t go ad hominem!

@ imr90:

Possibly that criterion is the gold standard used throughout alt med not just by anti-vacciners.

It’s not “your” baby and it’s not “your” world, PR, however entitled you may feel to saddle both with the effects of your wrong-headed and dangerous douche-baggery..

You can’t own another human being the way you can own a bike or a coffeepot or a yo-yo, in this country at least, since 1862.

And if your decision not to vaccinate yourself results in harm to another human being, it’s not solely “your” life, either. Sharing space on this planet with others has a number of obligations thereunto pertaining. Pity you’re too selfish to see that.

Shay, it is about MY baby because it carries MY DNA and I’m its legal warden entitled to defend its best intetrest. Our lack of vaccination can never be linked to the illness of your baby, ESPECIALLY IF IT’S VACCINATED! We are not responsible for YOUR VACCINE FAILURE, blame the INDUSTRY. The response to VACCINE FAILURE is not to force vaccines on everybody, this is PREPOSTEROUS. Yours would be a tall order before in any court.

But the converse is still valid, your baby with measles or polio is NOT more valuable than my baby with VACCINE INJURY, You don’ t have the right to impose VACCINE INJURIES on ohers in order to FEEL SAFE about your own PERCEIVED risks. So do what you think is best for the interest of your baby and I will do the same.

So the author belives the drop in vaccination rates is to blame on “permissive” exemption rules. Then please tell us what sort of exemptions does Rhode Island have, for in spite of being lees tough than WV or MS they sitll have better vaccination rates! Cognitive dissonance!

R.I. tops nation in child vaccinations
http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode-island/2012/09/26/tops-nation-child-vaccinations/Kg9S24yR7LKbvX5oTB2UhI/story.html

Myth: Unvaccinated kids are responsible for disease epidemics!

Truth: Recent disease epidemics have broken out in highly vaccinated communities. They occur in cycles (an outbreak one year, then not again for a few years), and because a disease has mutated. The vaccine cannot “protect” against the mutated germ, so it doesn’t matter if you were vaccinated or not — you are at risk.

Resistant mutations thrive “tahnks” to the vaccine, because it ceates the conditions for natural selection (artificial in this case) by weakening only the regular strains, and people continue getting the disease.

This is what has happened with whooping cough, and that’s why it’s making such a comeback. It is definitely not the unvaccinated kids “spreading disease around,” there is so much more to it than that.

Beamup said: “Are we to understand then that we should similarly “buzz off” if you decided to not give your baby any food?”

You imply thatf vaccines being as necessary as food… so please read the Nuremberg Code of medical ethics regarding medical experiments.

Invasive medical procedures are not a basic human need. The practice exposes HEALTHY PEOPLE to serious risks of permanent, incapacitating injuries. Is a basic need to expose perfectly healthy kids to VACCINE INJURY?

The risks of vaccines are neither well defined nor totally known. The risks of the targetted disease are just as fuzzy too. This UNCERTAINTIES turn vaccination into a MEDICAL EXPERIMENT the outcome of which on a particular baby is UNPREDICTABLE and a bet. I’m ready to appear in court to defend my position if need be.

Regarding food… should we similarly “buzz off” if you feed junk food to your child? Perhaps if you fed your children properly – and the same is valid for the 3rd world – there wouldn’t be any need for vaccines (real or perceived).

There’s the use of CAPS in ODD places to TRY to make a POINT.

Must be antivax 101.

You call yourself your child’s legal warden, but in fact, your rights are limited. The child has its own rights according to the 14th Amendment – that child is entitled to equal protection under the law – and even protection from YOUR wishes for it.

As far as the disease ‘mutating’ – there is AMPLE evidence that, despite the strain being ‘out of date’ that immunization with DTaP is still effective – there just needs to be an additional booster.

Furthermore, in order for the disease to ‘mutate’ – it must have a HOST to replicate in. Unvaccinated people make excellent hosts. If everyone was vaccinated, there would be fewer hosts, and thus less of an opportunity for the mutation to occur.

As usual, a pile of fail from Putin.

Only a JUDGE can determine where my rights regarding my child wiil end, not a PEDDLER of industrial products for healthy people. VACCINE INJURY is not protection, so you know where you can stick the 14th Amendment in this issue. Unless tehre’s an IMMEDIATE DANGER to the life of a child, medical decisiones are taken by the parents, and (pretended) PREVENTIVE measures don`t fall ito the emergency category.

…and it’s only a matter of time before other states follow suit with West Virginia, etc – who have no philosophical or religious exemption – because the rights of the child are equal to the rights of the parent under the law.

So a JUDGE has ALREADY DETERMINED that CHILDREN are ENTITLED to EQUAL protection under the LAW.

I can do the CAPS bit, too.

Darwy said: “…the rights of the child are equal to the rights of the parent under the law. ….So a JUDGE has ALREADY DETERMINED that CHILDREN are ENTITLED to EQUAL protection under the LAW…”

Since nobody is forcing vaccines on adults, even in the knowledge that vaccine-induced antibodies WANE, it appears the judges have less confidence in vaccines that you do.

As a warden I’m responsible for the health of my child, which includes PROTECTING IT FROM VACCINE INJURY.

While vaccine risks remain underreported and denied while risks of contracting a disease with a bad outcome are being exaggerated, no credible risk/benefit analysis in favor of vaccines can be presented to any judge.

There’s plenty of analysis in favor of vaccinations. Just because you don’t understand the statistics doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t.

Removing exemptions won’t help your cause a bit, because parents will have no choice that resort to judges in order to enforce their children’s rights. As a consequence, vaccination will most likely be declared optional for good.

The important point you peddlers miss is that once a child is proposed for a medical procedure PATIENT’S RIGHTS kick in.

See what happened in Belgium: the only compulsory vaccine was polio, but in 2011 a couple went to trial and the judge decided in their favor based on the law of Patient Rights. Parents asked for clear information about the vaccine components and the associated risks. The judge found no satisfactory answers, especially regarding the safety of the vaccine, and therefore he acknowledged the right of the parents to refuse.

Now no vaccine is compulsory in Belgium any longer. This is what will happen in the US too if exemptions are removed. Good luck, peddlers of remedies for the non-ill!

Dawry: “..There’s plenty of analysis in favor of vaccinations. Just because you don’t understand the statistics doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t…”

Statistics? So you acknowledge that the safety and efficacy of vaccines is not assessed in double-blind, placebo-controlled trials with clinical endpoints before the are released upon the population…

If you appeal to statistics it means vaccination itself is a clinical trial. Since the Nazi trials in Nuremberg no one can legally be forced to participate in a clinical trial unless he gives informed consent.

Belgium and the US: Apples and Oranges.

Next comparison?

There are plenty of studies which show the efficacy and safety of vaccines. Again, just because you don’t understand the statistics in them, doesn’t mean the rest of us don’t.

Nice Godwin, btw.

Dawry: “..Belgium and the US: Apples and Oranges. ..”

You better pray for it.

Dawry: “..There are plenty of studies which show the efficacy and safety of vaccines…”

You show them to the judge, girl! See you in court!

They’ve been shown to the judges; this is why the number of payouts in the VIC are so small; because the incidence of true ‘vaccine injury’ is small; orders of magnitude smaller than the risks of the diseases they prevent.

Darwy: “..They’ve been shown to the judges; this is why the number of payouts in the VIC are so small..”

More than $2 billion to families of vaccine-injured children since 1989 is small?

Darwy: “..orders of magnitude smaller than the risks of the diseases they prevent…”

I’m AWED at the depth of your risk/benefit analysis, girl.

2 billion paid out to how many families, versus the number of vaccine doses given?

As I said, small.

Statistics, learn some.

Just ignore the putinreloaded troll. He’s been banned from several other science blogs…including one where he cyberstalked me.

He is spamming the comments section. He doesn’t even live in the the United States…yet will engage you in Constitution law…and now brings up the Nuremberg trial.

I’m AWED at the depth of your risk/benefit analysis, girl.

I’m awed at the depths of your ignorance. Pick any vaccine on the schedule, look up safety and efficacy studies on PubMed and then explain again how, “the safety and efficacy of vaccines is not assessed in double-blind, placebo-controlled trials with clinical endpoints before the are released upon the population”. It doesn’t take a great effort to find out what you say is completely untrue.

There are a lot of websites that are full of misinformation about vaccines, and you have clearly read the lies and believed them. Don’t believe anything you read until you have looked at the original source material, especially if you are planning to lecture literate people with scientific backgrounds about it. You might prevent yourself from looking like an idiot next time.

BTW, the NVIC has compensated 925 people who may have been damaged by vaccines since 1988. The likelihood is that the majority of them were not damaged by vaccines, but the court does not require causation to be proved at all if it’s a table injury,. This is a good thing, but it’s not evidence of the dangers of vaccines.

Even if all those cases were genuine vaccine injuries, that works out to about 40 cases every year, with many hundreds of millions of vaccine shots administered each year.

Your child is very much more likely to suffocate or strangle in bed (about 600 infant deaths each year in the US) than to suffer a serious vaccine reaction. Maybe your time would be spent better spouting outrage about bed manufacturers.

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