Antivaccine quackery: You be Orac today!

Well, as Julian already mentioned, it’s the “toxins gambit” writ large. We’ve got mercury, aluminum, MSG and formaldehyde all mentioned.

There’s the total lack of understanding of dose-response.

The “overloading the immune system” canard.

“Too many, too soon”

Fear of genetic recombination, which wouldn’t actually occur.

The “injecting directly into your blood” myth.

More toxin gambit.

Conflating EPA daily limits on methylmercury with ethylmercury exposure.

I think that’s all of the ones I found.

@DW

can any of us ever truly fathom the depths

Quick! Call James Cameron!

Mikey says:

So let’s do the math now. Let’s add up all the heavy metals in the routine “consumption” process most go through, including flu shots, vaccines, boosters, food, water, lotions, cosmetics, deodorants and so on, and you have a major problem.

But he doesn’t actually do the math along with routes of administration and pharmacokinetics.
We can play canard bingo:

Your immune system basically “freaks out” as the toxic injection completely bypasses the digestive system all together.

Poor Mikey doesn’t even seem to realise that not all vaccines are even viral, much less inactivated, recombinant or toxoid.

One major problem with the multi-jabs, even preservative-free ones, is that several vaccines at once enables the chance of the tiny amounts of viruses introduced by these vaccines and their genetic material to meet and “mingle.” You see, then the recombination of such strains are super viruses, and can rise up later and attack the system. Still only worried about the preservatives?

Oh no I’m vewy afwaid of monsters and beasts:

This monster jab contains formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol and aluminum phosphate.

This beast of a shot contains aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, and bovine cow serum.

Poor Mikey doesn’t seem to be familiar with anatomy and the tissue that BSE resides in:

Injecting gelatin poses the risk of infection from synthetic growth hormones and BSE infectivity (mad cow disease).

OK, this fickwit is hurting my head. I just want my shill swank in my stocking for xmas please.

@DW

I dunno, riding a flying lizard might be kinda cool. I’m sure some of the other shills and minions have received theirs already, but I’m still waiting on mine.

@Science Mom

Your quotes reminded me of one other thing I forgot to include in my list. He writes about how vaccines bypass the digestive system altogether, but that’s not exactly true, nor relevant, is it? The OPV and rotavirus vaccines go through the digestive system. As for the rest, it’s a bit irrelevant, since the diseases prevented don’t go through the digestive system either.

Let’s see, measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, influenza, pneumococcus and varicella are all respiratory diseases, so those viruses and bacteria bypass the digestive system, too! Hep B is blood-borne, so it also bypasses the digestive system. Tetanus gets in through open wounds, also bypassing the digestive system.

Oh, but silly me. I’m thinking with my head, instead of my gut. And with alt-med, it’s all about the gut!

The whole argument about “bypassing the digestive system” is very weird since, as Todd W points out, a lot of these diseases also bypass the digestive system. You also see this in another form as complaining that the vaccine is introduced in an “unnatural” way as when vaccines for respiratory viruses like measles are injected.

But, first, the immune system doesn’t exactly care whether the disease is introduced “naturally”; it attacks the disease where it turns up — do they think one would be immediately damaged for life if someone with measles sneezed on an open cut on one’s hand?

And second, if the disease has evolved to attack via a specific pathway, such as respiratory, it’s not such a bad thing to introduce it via the “wrong” pathway so it has a hard time getting established while the immune system is ramping up.

@ Science Mom:

Actually, MIkey used to sell Col-ema ( sic) products at his store but I believe that they have disappeared from his new, bright and shiny Natural News store.
Therefore, he just sells ( metaphorical) sh!t but not the means to flush it out of GI systems.

We should be thankful for Mikey’s Minion explaining to us that toxic is toxic, even a trace amount of a deadly substance is unsafe.

Thus warned, we can peruse the offerings in the Natural News Store and realize that Mikey is trying to sell us Poison in the guise of supplements.

For instance, his store sells “Detoxadine®” which is advertised as “nano-colloidal nascent atomic iodine” and essentially good for what ails you, along with the claim “It is non-toxic”.

Astute readers know however that elemental iodine is toxic and can kill when taken orally, and other iodine compounds cause chemical burns and anaphylactic shock. This is highly dangerous stuff, and in no way belongs in any product sold for human consumption. Natural News sells Poison! Pass it on!!!!!

Looking through the Natural News store and using the same approach tom product safety as that article I was alarmed to find several items that are potentially deadly:

Detoxadine (Nascent Atomic Iodine) – a lethal oxidizing agent that denatures proteins and can cause skin lesions.

Cayenne tincture – contains capsaicin, a highly irritant material requiring proper protective goggles, respirators, and proper hazardous material handling procedures. Also contains ethyl alcohol which breaks down into acetaldehyde in the body. As Wikipedia states:

Acetaldehyde is an irritant of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes, throat and respiratory tract. Symptoms of exposure to this compound include nausea, vomiting, headache. These symptoms may not happen immediately. It has a general narcotic action and large doses can even cause death by respiratory paralysis. It may also cause drowsiness, delirium, hallucinations and loss of intelligence. Exposure may also cause severe damage to the mouth, throat and stomach; accumulation of fluid in the lungs, chronic respiratory disease, kidney and liver damage, throat irritation, dizziness, reddening and swelling of the skin.

Hawaiian Spirulina Powder – presents a choking hazard when an entire jar-full is forced into a person’s mouth.

Organic Coconut Flour – causes severe injuries when hundreds of bags are dropped on a person from a great height.

I could go on, but I think I have made my point.

“Would you eat a meal if you knew it contained 10 toxins?”

This is a remarkably obtuse argument, considering the fact that vegetables contain lots of toxic substances, alkaloids, DNA sequences that convey resistance to herbicides, and sodium chloride (listed as a toxin in the Wells piece). There is also dihydrogen monoxide, which is used in the core vessels of nuclear reactors and has been found in nearly all cancerous tumors (little tongue in cheek there).

There is also the point that a lot of these supposed toxins are naturally occurring in the body, including glutamate and the oft-cited formaldehyde. The attack on sodium chloride is a new one for me, considering that the absence of sodium chloride (or some other substance to provide osmolarity) would be damaging to tissue.

An aside: We used to buy cow brains from a local slaughter house because they are an easy source for obtaining capillaries, hence a good source for obtaining the endothelial cells that make up capillaries. One day I bought a few and took them back to the lab, and the capillary isolation resulted in nothing but dead and damaged cells. We eventually figured out that the people at the slaughter house had tried to do us a favor by rinsing the blood off the brains, using standard tap water. They were not biologists and did not understand the idea of using isotonic saline. The damage to the tissue was astonishingly bad. Shorter version: Yes, a vaccine or an intravenous drip should have something in it that prevents massive tissue damage due to hypotonic destruction. Something like sodium chloride.

OT: A major hedge fund manager is going short (apparently that refers to a negative prognostication on stock value rather than an ability to manipulate one’s own height) on Herbalife, arguing that it is in essence a pyramid scheme because it relies more on sales within its own sales force than sales to the public. Herbalife is one of those nutritional supplement and weight loss companies, known for its multilevel marketing.:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/us-ackman-herbalife-idUSBRE8BI1MZ20121220

A spokesman for Herbalife made a nasty remark about the hedge fund manager.

”childhood diseases are rarely dangerous, the complications are what dangerous. ”

@Chris

I believe ken was listing one of the tropes used in the linked Wells piece.

That’s what i said to them Kathryn, but vaccines will turn you into zombies.

Heliantus,

That may be stretching the definition of “toxin” a bit.

When they claim that gelatin, salt and sorbitol are toxins? Not a bit. Capsaicin is far more toxic than any of them, or glutamate or formaldehyde for that matter. Capsaicin has an oral LD50 in mice of about 47 mg/kg which is similar to that of thimerosal, with LD50 of about 30 mg/kg. A toxin is a toxin, or so they tell us.

I concur that that genre has indeed produced some of the worst excuses for in-musicality in the history of the planet

This seems to… imply something. Anyway, I will note that the exploration of Finnish pop covers has reliably proved to be a pleasing hobby for me.

@Sarah:

You might want to avoid beverages with a high level of congeners. I stick to gin, vodka and white wine – but not together.
-btw- according to some woo-meisters all alcoholic drinks are toxic.

Coffee is full of toxins too, but since it goes into the digestive system first, and not directly to the bloodstream, it must be okay.

It very much depends on which end of the GI tract it enters, I believe.

I think my favorite part is the advice to preserve your immune system by avoiding mercury and using colloidal silver instead.

Wait a minute. Shouldn’t mercury and colloidal silver be the same thing? After all, they’re both “liquid silver”! (The symbol Hg comes from Greek hydrargyrum.) If you don’t have enough chemical knowledge to realize that sodium chloride is table salt, how would you tell the difference?

I presume you have heard about the development of the first serum derived hepatitis B vaccine in 1981, Pareidolius:

http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/hepatitis-and-hepatitis-b

Timeline Entry: 1981 Hepatitis B: First Subunit Viral Vaccine in U.S.

The FDA licensed Hilleman’s human-blood-derived hepatitis B vaccine, Heptavax-B. It was the first subunit viral vaccine developed in the United States.

Hilleman transformed the hepatitis B surface protein, discovered by Baruch Blumberg and known as the Australia antigen, into an effective vaccine. Hilleman harvested serum from several IV drug users and homosexual men, in whom the disease was sometimes present, to obtain the antigen. He used three methods to purify the blood so that the infectious particles were assuredly killed, but the antigen remained.

The vaccine proved effective at preventing hepatitis B. But, because of concerns about HIV infection, it was superseded in 1986 by a product that did not use human serum. This new effort produced the first vaccine based on recombinant technology–in this case, changing yeast cells so that they produced the protein that is the active ingredient in the current hepatitis B vaccine.”

The vaccine (Heptavax), was used extensively in the United States for high risk individuals…health care workers, household contacts/partners of hepatitis b carriers, within the gay community and for “institutionalized” mentally retarded individuals. My son received the vaccine in 1985 just before he went to reside in an Intermediate Care Facility. None of the millions of people who received Heptavax ever contracted hepatitis B or HIV from the vaccine.

Rense.com however, has a different *opinion* about Heptavax vaccine.

http://rense.com/general68/gayex.htm

That POS Alan Cantwell calls the gay men who volunteered to test the vaccine “guinea pigs”…I call them heroes.

On ‘bypassing the digestive system’ – the meme itself that is – if my memory serves it was most strongly repeated during the peak of the Thimerosal controversy.

I guess the ‘logic’ went that the single can of digested tuna was safer even though it had as much/more methyl mercury than most of the vaccine schedule had ethyl mercury.

Sensible people knew that methyl mercury has a digestive uptake that makes other substances envious. It mimics methionine and the body happily transports it across the blood brain barrier.

Digestion does NOTHING to improve the safety of methyl mercury. It’s dangerous BECAUSE it’s so thoroughly taken up by the digestive system. That’s why it’s a substance we caution pregnant women to avoid!

I’ve been telling you this all the time.

Given the N of 1, no. Perhaps you’re confused as to where you are.

Rational Antivax?
Can these two words really be combined? I thought these words excluded eachother.

Yeah, she has been making a stink of herself over at ShotofPrevention. She has been reduced to just general insults and mindless blather. And her new name just reinforces that her home planet is Htrae, also known as Bizarro World.

I probably put her in a dither when I posted this story: ‘It was hideous’ – family’s tetanus agony.

I also challenged the many sock puppets that infest that site who moan and groan about “toxins” to tell me which ingredient in the DTaP is more toxic than tetanospasmin. That seems to have set her off. Perhaps because I reminded them that toddlers don’t know enough to stay out of dirt.

I actually don’t even read her comments on ShotofPrevention, I may only glance at them as I scroll through.

@lilady

Correct. Cantwell is a POS, but an “academic” who has to falsify the timeline to support a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy is also just a friggin idiot.

@ Thingy…you’re barking up the wrong squirrel, again

Woof, woof grrrrrrrr:

What job Thingy? What hospital?

Exactly. I let her know that too.

Thingy’s new ‘nym also works if you ADD a prefix as in… “Irrational Antivax”

From oxymoron to moron in one simple step. Neat.

I really don’t understand what you are saying.

I seem to be having a problem with that today. I meant that Th1Th2’s endless parade of stupid insults is one thing, but a charade solely to try to get a rise out of people is another.

Lilady, could you look at this one. I am having a brain freeze on how to reply.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Heather_XW/thimerosal-vaccines-aap-mercury_n_2316473_215889604.html

Here’s a suggestion: Ask her whether she can find any use of the phrase “blood clearing ratios” that are not her own.

In other words have her define what blood clearing ratios are and where they are clinically used?

No, make fun of her by asking her to explain precisely what she means. As with “disposition,” by which she presumably means “deposition,” Heather is trying to posture; she doesn’t actually understand what she’s talking about. Insist that she drag you through the woods.

Kelly here’s the bullsh!t artist Mark Geier addressing the U.N. earlier this year about statements made in 1999 by CDC officials, at the time of the recommendation to remove Thimerosal. At that time there really were no studies about organomercury compounds…but rather studies on elemental Hg and methyl mercury which do present a danger of toxicity.

Kelly…one more about the Burbacher study:

http://www.fluwiki.info/pmwiki.php?n=Issues.TheIssuesOfThimerosalAndEthylmercuryToxicity

“The latest controversy surrounds a newly-released, NIH-funded primate study [30], [31], conducted by Dr. Thomas Burbacher [32], an associate professor of environmental health and the director of the primate research center at the University of Washington. In his study, the effects of injected ethylmercury were compared with those of orally administered methylmercury in order to ascertain whether methylmercury provided a suitable reference for assessing the effects of ethylmercury found in thimerosal. The study revealed significant differences between methyl- and ethylmercury metabolism.
The injected ethylmercury cleared from the bloodstream much more rapidly than ingested methylmercury. However, the study also found that a larger fraction of the ethylmercury that remained in the primates’ brains was converted to potentially more harmful inorganic compounds. Burbacher did not draw conclusions regarding the relative toxicity of ethylmercury versus methylmercury, but did warn that methylmercury is likely not a suitable reference for evaluating ethylmercury toxicity. In an interview, Burbacher commented
“The bottom line is that trying to assess the effects of a compound with very little or no data is not a good thing to do. … Unfortunately, we started doing studies on this compound way too late. Basic information like this should’ve been available decades ago.”[33]

In other words, comparing methylmercury toxicity with ethylmercury toxicity is like comparing apples and oranges. We know the apple well, but the orange is terra incognita. All we know for sure is that the orange is different.”

Oh, crap. I read her comment, and it was thermonuclear stupid. So she has to prove it with actual street addresses.

I found Heather XW. She is Heather White.

http://autismrawdata.net/1/post/2012/1/misinformation-and-intimidation-by-keyboard-skeptics.html

@ Chris: I just posted about Thingy at the SOP blog…her cyberstalking, her lies about her *nursing career* and her vile comments directed at you, Lara and me about our sons being *vaccine damaged*.

@ Kelly: I don’t see any of your posts back at Heather, some of mine have appeared and I hit “home” with conspiracy theories, when I mentioned “her blog”. She also admits to supporting Wakey and Geier.

@ Politicalguineapig:

Oh, I am SO not a fan. But I think that Ozzy is a very interesting person and a few musicians do have ability.

Here are two absolutely true heavy metal anecdotes- one is hilarious, one’s very sad.

Perhaps 5 years ago, I was at a posh hotel with two friends, sitting around an indoor pool in winter with drinks. A few men, older than I am, wore rather long hair and were carrying on nearby: one was especially loud and traipsed around the pool introducing himself to other patrons- including us- as ” a rock star” who would be appearing nearby that night, talking about his accomplishments as a guitarist, his gold records and suchlike- he was an idiot- one of us** blithely asked ;” I am supposed to know you?”, which seemed to make him upset. So off he scampered, introducing himself to young girls who probably had no idea what he was talking about. Later, one of his band mates, came over to tell us to pay no mind to the guy: he bothers everybody including the band. The gentlemen and I still refer to our ‘brush with metal royalty.’ Lucky us.

( non-client related) A twenty-something guy with rapidly progressing schizophrenia became obsessed with the band Metallica: he played their albums around the clock, got involved in internet fan group arguments, decked himself out in band merchandise, had delusions about his relationship to them, used their lyrics as themes for conversation etc. At the height of his unholy attachment, he suddenly changed gears and began believing the band to be the devil, destroying his collection of music and goods, and wound up at a psychiatric facility where he was given new meds, ( he was on meds throughout). Eventually, his condition slightly improved and he was able to live at home, where he now has re-assembled his music and merchandise collection.

Because I wanted to understand the attraction, I waded through the band’s lyrics ( I know the young man’s parent) and found many ideas that would appeal to a SMI person- I won’t mention what I think of the writing.

** guess

I found Heather XW. She is Heather White.

Oh, yeah. Don’t miss her “timeline,” which starts with complaints about sugar as some sort of bizarre preface to the assertion that HiB immunization causes diabetes. I seem to recall that Viera Scheibner is cited in there somewhere, as well. She’s quite similar to the Dachelbot except for the part that involves knowing how to get out when the gettin’s good.

Heather says sugar is responsible for bubonic plague deaths. Where in the hell does this stuff start?

Parts of that timeline look awfully similar to the work of one “Val Valerian.” It also seems to go back to William Dufty.

I have been overwhelmed. I will be able to post later tonight.

Their side-effects list is hopelessly full of misunderstandings and misconceptions, aside from a complete lack of dose-response understanding as others have already pointed out. Some lovely examples:

Bovine cow serum: Extracted from cow skin. When injected causes connective tissue disorders, arthritis and lupus; also shortness of breath, low blood pressure, chest pain and skin reactions.

Serum is blood plasma minus the clotting factors – it’s not extracted from cow skin. Also for this purpose, “bovine” is effectively equivalent to “cow”. And this is basically the bovine form of what they later list as “human albumin” isn’t it?

Sorbitol: Synthetic sweetener which metabolizes very slowly and aggravates IBS and gastrointestinal issues.

I am fairly sure that sorbitol aggravates IBS and other gastro things because it’s sitting in the gut not being absorbed and messing up the osmolarity there. Obviously in an IM injection it’s not going to be sitting in your gut, so no problem.

Human albumin: The protein portion of blood from pooled human venous plasma; when injected causes fever, chills, hives, rash, headache, nausea, breathing difficulty, and rapid heart rate. Injecting “pooled blood” can result in a loss of body cell mass and cause immunodeficiency virus infection, or contain SV40, AIDS, cancer or Hepatitis B from drug addicts.

Firstly they seem to have pulled the side-effects here from documentation about giving 25-100g of IV albumin, such as http://www.kedrionusa.com/docs/Kedbumin-PI.pdf . Must repeat stuff about “the dose maketh the poison” as most of those side-effects look olmolarity-related.

The rest of that stuff mostly refers to contamination of the donor blood supply, which we now have nifty screening and testing to help avoid, plus the component separation would automatically eliminate some of that stuff (cancerous cells wouldn’t end up in the plasma portion, surely?). And do vaccine manufacturers even source their albumin from the donor blood supplies?

….

cookie please!