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Antivaccine nonsense Autism Complementary and alternative medicine Quackery

No matter how often I read about treatments like this, I still can’t believe parents actually subject their children to them

It’s been a while since I’ve written about MMS. You remember MMS, don’t you? It’s an abbreviation for “miracle mineral solution,” a solution first promoted by a man who is inaptly named Jim Humble. Basically, as I’ve described in multiple blog posts, MMS is bleach, specifically chlorine dioxide (ClO2). I first became acutely aware of it a little more than a year ago, when I noticed that the antivaccine autism biomed quackfest known as Autism One featured a talk by a woman named Kerri Rivera, who advocated using MMS to “bleach autism away,” as I put it at the time. Of course, Jim Humble doesn’t limit his use of MMS to just autism, but, like all good cranks, touts it as a near universal cure-all that is good for just about anything that ails you. So what’s so bad about using it for autism?

What caught my eye (and horrified me to think about it) was that Kerri Rivera was advocating the use of MMS enemas to treat autism. Yes, Kerri Rivera advocated subjecting autistic children to bleach enemas and has made videos touting this as a biomedical treatment for autism. As I noted back then, even worse (if that were possible), Rivera advocated “fever therapy” and characterized fevers after bleach enemas to be a good thing, a sign that the treatment is “working,” much as Jim Humble gives MMS to treat adults in increasing doses until they start to feel ill. (Personally, as a physician, I would be very concerned at a child becoming febrile after having ingested bleach or had it shot up his rectum. Not Kerri Rivera, apparently.) Indeed, Rivera even exults about how much she loves “fever therapy” and how it “wakes up the immune system.” In addition to the bleach enemas, she recommends a “72-2″ protocol that involves making children drink dilute bleach every two hours for 72 hours.

If there’s one thing that Kerri Rivera appears to do that deceives parents (besides the rather obvious claim she makes that ingesting bleach or making enemas out of it will do anything but risk potential poisoning and injury to the rectum and the lining of the colon) is the claim that MMS eliminates “parasites.” Much as advocates of “colon cleanses” claim that what’s coming out represents years of accumulated waste that’s making you sick or, even more appropriately, as advocates of “liver flushes” try to convince their unwitting marks that the little lumps of saponified oil that come through the stool due to the cleanse are in actuality gallstones being “flushed” out of the liver. advocates of bleach enemas, it would appear, claim that what comes out in the stool are “parasites” and “worms.” I learned this from a particularly horrifying blog I came across a while back, thanks to a reader, known as A Drop At a Time: The CD Journey of a Child With Autism (the “CD” part stands for chlorine dioxide). It’s the story of a mother subjecting her child to MMS treatments, including both oral ingestion of MMS and MMS enemas.

The introduction sets the background. The boy’s name is Jojo, who is now nearly eleven. He was diagnosed with autism when he was three years old, and his mother has been subjecting him to “autism biomed” interventions since December 2005, beginning because, as she put it, “I decided to give it a go because my mother’s instinct told me that Jojo suffers from egregious tummy problems.”

Yes, the dreaded “mommy instinct” strikes again.

So apparently Jojo underwent a wide variety of “autism biomed” woo over the last seven or eight years, but in March 2013 the “biomed” treatment took a turn to the terrifying when Jojo’s mother discovered MMS and began to follow Kerri Rivera’s MMS protocol:

Jojo is given 1 oz of the mixture hourly, so effectively he is getting 1/8th of a drop each time. His first dose was given after school at 1 pm. He is now given 8 doses only although my reading tells me that it is a minimum. I suppose I could increase up to 9-12 doses a day but I’m kinda leery of the possible increase in die-off effects too.

As well she should have been leery, but apparently not leery enough not to undertake biomedical quackery. Even as early as day 1, she noted Jojo running a low grade fever and coughing, which, of course, could simply have been a coincidence. Similarly, she also noted JoJo to have increased hyperactivity, which could very easily have been due to confirmation bias. By day 2, Jojo continued to have fever, and his cough got worse. Somehow, his mother came to believe that “coughing after taking MMS could be due to parasites in the lung dying,” as incredible as it might be that anyone would believe something like that. Later entries describe Jojo developing constipation, and, when that resolved, his mother thinking that parasites were coming out in his stool. It is a theme that continues through the rest of the blog, as Jojo develops diarrhea, languidness, and flareups of his chronic eczema (blamed on parasites, of course).

Finally, Jojo’s mother decides that he needs to have MMS enemas after having had a text message exchange with Kerri Rivera. Jojo’s mother tells Rivera that he is constipated, and Rivera responds:

Do an enema. There is probably a worm in his intestine. And give more MMS doses orally if he is awake. More MMS now, please.

So Jojo’s mother did just that and administered the first enema on day 7.

So what happened? Well, here’s what I meant by comparing the claims of someone like Kerri Rivera to those of “liver flush” quacks. The very first example of this can be found in an entry called Worm. Here’s where the gross pictures begin. Now take a look at that link and the picture contained therein. It’s basically a stringy bit of something that looks a little bit like a worm. Jojo’s mom asked her mom buddies on the MMS Facebook group, all of whom were “pretty sure” it was a worm. It’s not. Any surgeon or doctor who deals with GI problems will recognize it as a bit of mucus, possibly with a bit of colon mucosa (the lining of the colon). We see this sort of thing all the time, and it’s definitely not a worm.

Over the month of April and into May, Jojo’s mother treats her blog to regular photos of things like this. For instance, in this post, she spreads a bunch of nasty stuff out and photographs it. Kerri Rivera, we are told, has informed her that this stuff is “worm INTESTINES. The outer skin is already digested and the inside (intestines etc) disintegrates like this.” No, it’s just more mucus mixed with colonic mucosa. Disturbingly to me as a surgeon, it looks like a fairly decent-sized chunk of colonic mucosa with mucus. I can’t say for sure how large it is because Jojo’s mom was, unfortunately, not kind enough to provide a ruler next to it. Oddly enough, the lower picture shows more mucus, and Jojo’s mother correctly labels it as such. Then, right after that, we’re treated to more pictures of mucus and sloughed colon mucosa, which Rivera characterizes once again as ” the intestines of the worm, the outer ‘skin’ having already been digested.”

Later on in the protocol, Jojo’s mother tells us:

It’s been a while since I wrote in this blog but I have been so busy. I have been poop-diving for quite a while now, started about a week before April’s Parasite Protocol. Getting to be more confident about differentiating between biofilm (translucent, clear, film-like gel), mucus (breaks up in water) and worm pieces (looks like layers of opaque tissue, when lifted with work it intertwines around itself like a rope).

Kerri says that the outer skin of the worm is usually totally digested by the time these worms are expelled and what we see, that rope-like, intertwined tissue are its intestines, the insides of the worm.

Later still, because the “worms” are still coming out, Rivera tells Jojo’s mom that she needs to treat her son not only with bleach but with Mebendazole, a drug used to treat worms, such as pinworms, roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms, and whipworms. The new protocol included:

With the parasite protocol, one will have more to keep track of:

  • Mebendazole / Combantrin
  • Diatomaceous Earth (DE) + Rompepiedras (RP)
  • Castor Oil
  • Neem

All the above are given in different combinations on different days, no real pattern to it so one has to be on the ball enough to know what is given on which days of the Parasite Protocol from Days 1 – 18. From Day 18 onwards it’s just the DE and the RP.

I have to say that I have seen a lot of worms only after starting the Parasite Protocol. So what I read about Andreas Kalcker saying that CD (read: MMS) alone will not kill the parasites and that mebendazole is required must be true. Whilst it does happen ~ parasites being killed by CD alone, best results are achieved with the Rivera CD protocol done in conjunction with the Kalcker Parasite Protocol.

Remember what I said about the liver flushes above? Basically, liver flushes involve taking Epsom salts, olive oil, and fruit juices, such as apple juice or lemon juice. As I pointed out before, these “gallstones” are nothing more than saponified oils, thanks to the acids from the juice and the salt from the Epsom salts or phosphate salts often used in these protocols. Similarly, what I suspect to be going on here is that the castor oil and neem (which is an oil as well), mixed with the diatomaceous earth, combine in much the same way that the Epsom salts, oils, and acid from the juices do in liver flushes, the difference being that, because the mixture probably doesn’t saponify in the same way. However, clearly, when enemas are added, what comes out, instead of looking like little stones, looks like the pictures we see.

Reading this blog depressed me to no end, just as reading Kent Heckenlively’s account of taking his daughter to a quack clinic in Costa Rica to have dubious “stem cells” injected into her cerebrospinal fluid through lumbar puncture. Autistic children, who should be able to look to their parents for protection, are being subjected to harmful quackery. Now, the MMS enemas are probably not quite as bad as injecting cells of dubious origin that are almost certainly not the stem cells they are advertised to be, but it’s plenty bad. On the other hand, children subjected to stem cell quackery are only usually injected once or occasionally, as it’s too expensive to do it more frequently. Jojo’s mother subjected him to bleach enemas every day, multiple times a day sometimes.

The horror boggles the mind.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

166 replies on “No matter how often I read about treatments like this, I still can’t believe parents actually subject their children to them”

This makes me sick. How can people do that to anyone, let alone their own children?

The cognitive dissonance must be massive.

Poor poor Jojo, how can any child deserve a mother like his?
Shouldn’t she be in jail, for child-abuse?

@Renate – yes, yes she should. She’s slowly liquifying her child’s intestines…..where the hell does she think these “parasites” are coming from?

This is one of the main reasons that Quack kills – because these parents don’t have a freakin’ clue what they are doing to their children.

This is child abuse. Shouldn’t some sort of child protection service be taking an interest here?

This really does count as abuse. I don’t understand why any developed country would allow parents to harm their children in this way regardless of whether they had a “feeling” it was doing good or not.

I do volunteer work for a group that tracks televangelism fraud and collaborates with investigative news programs. I sent an e-mail to my main contact in this group and asked if he could have one of these shows infiltrate the Autism One conference to watch Rivera’s talk and confront her. (I had already tipped off a couple of Chicago news stations, but they didn’t reply.) This group doesn’t normally solicit stories to the programs they work with, but they were horrified enough by MMS that they disregarded that policy and went to a certain syndicated newsmagazine with the story. The producer he knew was interested, but I never heard whether the executive producer felt the same way. I contacted them too short of notice for them to sneak into Autism One, but I definately did get Rivera onto their radar. I like to think I did what I could do.

As a parent of a NT child, I have a question for those who might be more knowledged on the matter. It sprang into my head while reading this. (Before the disgust fully kicked in.)

Could the “fever therapy” be attractive to parents because their child is easier to care for when they’re sick? I know that my daughter just lays about when she has a fever and we generally just park ourselves on the couch for the day and rest. If a child is generally hard to care for and a so-called “educated” person is telling them that these fevers are good, would that attract some parents to it if a fever meant an easy way to just sit back and relax and call it a treatment?

Of course, I don’t really know and my curiosity has the best of me here. My daughter being ill scares me so much, but I have recognized that those are days when we both tend to rest a lot.

@ Renate, Lawrence, nastylittlehorse, Adam

Definitely child abuse, just based on what is being given into the colon, but also on the picture at the top of http://jojosmmsjourney.blogspot.com/ , labeled “23 May 2013: PP2 Day 1” there appear to be some flecks of red blood in these mucousy pieces (and you could be certain a occult heme testing would be positive as well). Ironically, there is a “report abuse” on the menu drop-down under “More” up at the top, but I suspect it is referring, more likely, to some sort of “blog abuse” and not child abuse. Reading the intro to this blog (http://jojosmmsjourney.blogspot.com/2013/03/intro.html), this “mom” is (a) not in the US, (b) has a link to Malaysia, and (c) uses the word “Mum”–so perhaps is somewhere in the UK but came/from or has strong ties to Malaysia.

As a physician, I’ve recommended bleach baths for children with recurrent MRSA skin infections, but we’re talking not much higher concentration than hot tub chlorination levels, and definitely never for internal use. But putting an enema with bleach up a child’s rectum, as common sense should scream, cannot result in any good.

A few years back there was an 8 month-old infant who presented to an ED here in Tucson weighing 9 lbs and severely ill. She was a home birth and had never seen a physician (until the ED) and was a victim of neglect–if not also abuse. Her amazingly neglectful parents did the authorities a favor by posting to their facebook account many pictures of their infant in the month between birth and going to the ED and helped CPS clearly show neglect (sadly I don’t know if these wretched parents were allowed to get their child back after her severe failure to thrive was corrected by physicians, nutritionists and foster parents). But I’d like to think wherever this mom is these pictures (and her detailed descriptions of what she’s done) could also be used for a neglect/abuse case.

@Brittany #7:

Could the “fever therapy” be attractive to parents because their child is easier to care for when they’re sick?

Quite possibly. Having said that, when I’m sick I make Oscar the Grouch look like a paragon of civility. Yet illness does make me want to sleep a lot, so I could be considered more docile when ill.

@Chris –

Yeah, it mentions autism groups in KL and that sort of stuff. If she’s malaysia based I have no idea what government body (if any) would care about it.

Child protection in the UK, of she is here, should certainly take an interest.

Horrific. This woman needs to be tracked down, and exposed as the demented child abuser that she is.

Enemas are horrible. The administration (by someone else) feels degrading and can make you feel so vulnerable. The sequelae can be agonising, with severe cramping, nausea, feeling flushed, and all manner of unpleasant things.

To think of a child (especially one who may lack typical communication capabilities) having this done to him daily, makes me feel simultaneously murderous and utterly helpless, because I want to save him, but I can’t.

She isn’t trying to “cure” JoJo. She’s punishing him.

It appears that she is in Kuala Lumpur. She has a ‘Sleepless in KL’ tag on a couple of posts, and she makes reference to Malay war songs.

There’s a ‘KL Biomed’ (puke) Facebook page, so some detective work could probably figure out who they are. Apparently there’s a Suspected Child Abuse and Neglect team at Kuala Lumpur hospital.

I believe action has recently been taken to make teachers responsible for flagging child abuse (mandated reporters in the US, I think) but from what I can gather from the articles I’ve seen, the results aren’t great, and UNICEF appear to be paying special attention to Malaysia.

It was incredibly discomfitting to read that Malaysian Meddler Mum gives JoJo enemas in his lunch break. Shouldn’t he be coming home for lunch to, you know, EAT? She also mentioned that his teachers dish out his “medication” ( including bloody castor oil capsules) throughout the day, so they’re clearly in thrall to is mother.

My thoughts are with you JoJo ‘ I wish I could help you.

One last comment for now*, and it’s a harsh warning:

Do not play any kind of woo-spotting, biomeddling-detection drinking games while reading the following link. I love you all, and don’t want you to die from liver failure:

thestar.com.my/health/story.asp?file=/2011/4/24/health/8513939&sec=health

*I’m agitated by the whole thing, and my first meds of the day are due, and I haven’t had enough caffeine to slow me down, yet!

Malaysia is afaik British Commonwealth, so Britishisms like ‘mum’ might be expected, too.

My Mom used to give us enemas (soap, no bleach) if we didn’t poo for more than a day or two. I hated it and luckily, she stopped this practice as we got older (12 or so) although I’m not sure why, but perhaps we made a bigger fuss as we got older?

My Mom was rather compulsive and had some kind of germ fear. She did use a lot of bleach for cleaning, but I guess I have to be thankful there was no internet then to further inspire her.

At least we could protest, I cannot imagine what a non-communicative autistic child must go through.

Unfortunately, obsessions/ delusions** about parasites are prevalent in woo-topia:

TMR has had a few posts about bugs and worms- rifling through their archives of madness, I immediately found “Bugs, Moon Cycles and Lunacy” ( courtesy of Ms Poppy, June 2012), not only does she firmly believe that her child has parasites, she also believes that the parasites become more active – and the child more affected- during the full moon. Commenters agree ( Rivera pops up there).

Recently, a PRN Talkback show featured the woo-bespoke host’s insistence that SBM doesn’t know anything about parasitical infestation in non-Third World countries- which is VERY common: these critters are under-the-radar and standard testing misses most of them. Of course, he has complicated herbal*** protocols and products to eliminate them. Obviously, meat eaters can pick up all sorts of horrible intestinal hitchhikers. ”
“Go vegan”.

Many alt med advocates link psychological and intestinal issues: perhaps in their case, it has somethig to do with those two areas being in closer proximity than is normal.

** and there’s always a woo-meister/ maitresse ready, willing and able to cash in on delusional thinking

.*** Not sure if he still sells “Bug out!”

Tierra’s “Way of Herbs” lists antiparasite herbs- including potentially harmful ones like chapparal and larkspur as well as garlic, rue, thyme, cinnamon oil and artemisia.

Ugh, I had an enema once as a child for severe constipation. I can’t imagine getting them regularly!

I think this is not only abuse of the child, but horrible abuse by the practitioner of the mother. I can’t imagine any woman, but especially a mom who already has so much on her plate dealing with the challenges of an autistic child, spending days upon days “poop diving.” The occasional stool sample for a pediatrician in my house is gross enough.

I’m not a psychiatrist, and would be reticent to diagnose over the internet in any case, but does the Jojo’s mom case sound to anyone like Münchausen syndrome by proxy?

Ugh. I had to skip over parts of the treatment descriptions above because it was upsetting me so much. One day this poor child is going to end up in the ER and a real doctor is going to have to try and repair the damage his demented mother has inflicted on him.

I know a quack like Kerri Rivera is small fry to the regulatory bodies, but could the blog posts mentioning Rivera giving “treatment” advice be reported to some authority as evidence that she is trying to practice medicine without a license? We know the autism quacks are completely impervious to shame, and their enablers in the biomed camp are never going to publicly criticize them either – because admitting that one treatment is bogus opens up the uncomfortable possibility that all of them are.

If a child is generally hard to care for and a so-called “educated” person is telling them that these fevers are good, would that attract some parents to it if a fever meant an easy way to just sit back and relax and call it a treatment?

I think you may be on to something here. Caring for an autistic child is difficult, and may well be too much for some parents. They hear about this so-called treatment, and in their desperation they overlook the obvious signs that this would be a Bad Idea. So when the people advocating the treatment say that fever and other symptoms we normally think of as bad are actually good, these parents push onward.

That’s assuming that the parents actually have the best of intentions, which is not always the case. Some people have a martyr complex, and there is such a thing as Munchausen by proxy.

As an aside-
I adopted a small cat ( really a giant kitten) several years ago: he immediately began producing awful-smelling liquid poo and became weak and morose-looking, not wanting to eat or do much at all- nothing subtle about it.

A simple test revealed coccidia and liquid antibiotics helped quickly. Shouldn’t a child get as much help?

Shouldn’t an adult be able to understand that sometimes you need a professional to test and identify the problem?
IF any problem indeeed exists..
These woo-besotten parents want to attribute ASDs to external sources like vaccines, meds or parasites, not accept them as being the pathway of development that their child is taking.

Brittany — possibly it’s attractive because the child is more compliant, but I think more significant is the sense of accomplishing something. A treatment is administered, a change is observed, therefore it’s working! So they keep doing it, and soon they start seeking the change that shows its working rather than worrying about the end point. It could be a little pavlovian — sort of like clicker training a dog, you train them to associate the click with a treat and praise, and fairly quickly you don’t need to do the treat and praise because the click is all it takes to make the dog feel rewarded. Even though the dog didn’t get the thing they’d actually been wanting; they come to substitute the signal for the reward.

Combine that with the “warrior mommy” thing and it all becomes disturbingly attractive. They want to be Doing Something to help their child, because that is what warrior mommies do. Anything less is a sign of failure. So they really want to see signs of progress. This “treatment” doesn’t work, but it does produce symptoms that the unwary can be deluded into thinking are signs of progress. So rather than these side-effects discouraging them, it actually encourages them instead.

My paternal grandfather was a general surgeon, but practicing in a small* town on the high prairies which meant he was often the only doctor on duty at their tiny hospital. Sometimes patients would come in and he could tell they were the “worried well”. So he’d patiently listen to them, and then prescribe a medication. He warned that it might make them sick to their stomachs, but that would just mean it was working. Well, it was a sort of a placebo, really; he was prescribing them a mild emetic, with the intention that this would make them think it was working. And they were all satisfied, so it certainly seemed to work. Ethical? Certainly not by modern standards. But it’s an illustration of how potent an “active placebo” can be in deluding someone (whether the patient or the caregiver) into thinking its working.

*Well, for a certain value of “small” — what’s small to a New Yorker is downright urban to a North Dakotan in the sixties.

Oh god. I read this before open of business at work and I’m still having a hard time not crying (or, um, stimming too openly) because of it. My husband has an ASD, and I have major issues with sensory overload, looking at people, and being touched by anyone not said husband.

The idea of having this done to a child is horrifying. I keep involuntarily imagining having this happen to me as a kid, when even a hug could melt me down, and I… it feels scary and nauseating and makes me feel powerless. I wish they lived in a county with better child protection services, so Jojo could be rescued. 🙁

(Also, hi elburto! I believe we knew each other on LJ, where I was kaowolfie. Chick with the migraines, trigeminal neuropathy, and a tendency to clue by four people about ableism and sexism?)

Calli #23,

Ugh, you’re probably right about the reinforcement. I just cannot imagine anyone thinking a fever in a child is a “wanted” thing.

Chemical —-> Oooh, eeebil!

Natural chemicals —–> Mmm, nature!

Hippie logic ====> Where reality goes to die.

@ Elburto
Is that a newspaper-article, or an advertisement for some group, that is so deep into woo, that I don’t understand it?
“Parents seeking effective treatments”? I don’t think anything on that list is effective and some of those sound a bit dangerous. I don’t see MMS listed, but every other woo in the book is.

Some years ago a (real medical) parasitologist told me about the “worms” people brought to him, that they had found in their feces, all of which turned out to be bits of undigested food. He also told me that a patient once brought him some actual worms. They had been given them by their colonic irrigation therapist, who had told them these worms had washed out of their colon. On examination he found they were the type of worms you can buy to feed tropical fish, and that could not possibly survive in a human GI tract. I don’t know how common this practice is, but it does seem a good way of keeping the marks happy.

Air hugs for Nashira. I hope you’re feeling better now.

I’m not ashamed to admit that I cried, and I almost vomited thinking about that poor kid. It’s left me feeling distinctly anxious and triggered, especially coming so soon after the Alex Spourdalakis case.

In my former job I’ve made child protection referrals for so much less, and not being able to help is so frustrating.

When, for once, a dash of homeopathy would be a positive thing – homeopathic bleach is infinitely preferable to higher concentrations of it – the quack is not signed up for this One Woo…

Sorry for double post, I was catching up when this gem caught my attention.

Obviously, *meat eaters* can pick up all sorts of horrible intestinal hitchhikers. ”
“Go vegan”.

So we have the assertation – eating meat gives you parasites, eating plants does not.

But wait a minute! The animals we eat are of the herbivore variety, id est they eat plants. The same plants that are not considered a risk factor in catching a parasite.

Wherefore come the parasites in the meat of those herbivores than?

The really ridiculous thing is that getting a parasitic infection in the US is so rare these days that our children will likely never have one in their lives if they stay here and things continue as they are. Why worry about something like that?

@ Smith of Lie
Most of the parasites that our meat animals can be infected with have incredibly complex life cycles (that fortunately I’m not required to know anymore.) Sometimes (often) there is a larval form that lives in the soil (or in other inhabitants of soil) that can be ingested during grazing. Or it’s as simple as having a parasite egg-containing pasture. And there you have it–intestinal parasites. Veganism doesn’t protect you from gastrointestinal disease–just ask anybody who’s had salmonellosis from some unwashed lettuce or sprouts.

God this is sad. The defense these parents use is also very disconcerting to me. I still don’t understand the whole “gut flora” issue people keep bringing up, especially since old Andy’s been discredited.

On a side note, does anyone else find the mms home page a little weird? Why is he standing there with a tiger?

@Janet

Yeah, I am pretty aware of that. I lack the vocabulary to describe the parasite I am thinking about, but I remember learning about ones most often contracted by eating unwashed veggies. I was just pointing out the wholes in the supposition that meat eaters are just asking to get infested up to the nose with parasites while vegans are immune to that (aside from other superpowers they boast, at least as long as they stay on the good side of Vegan Police).

No, no, no! Parasites are secondary to toxins! You’ve got to get rid of the toxins first, otherwise the parasites will keep coming back. The most powerful detoxifier is asparagus. The toxins come out in the urine, and boy do they stink! You’ve got to keep eating asparagus until all of the toxins come out. This could take a long time. I’ve been detoxifying for 5 years, and they’re still coming out.

Mark — a good start, but you really need to be chelating naturally. Oxalic acid is a chelator, so I recommend strawberry-rhubarb pie with every meal. No exceptions. 😉

@ #28, Krebiozen-

As a resident I saw a toddler in the ER who had a “worm in her butt” (that was the exact chief complaint). When I looked, it did resemble a rather large, red translucent worm. I gloved, pulled it out (it was an in out with another 2-3 inches inside but came out easily). It reminded me of an artificial worm used in fishing. I asked the parents if she’d gotten into a tackle box and they said she hadn’t but she had eaten a large amount of gummy worms the day prior–so I’m guessing if she swallowed some, at least one made it through relatively undigested. The worm was clear on cross sectioning (grossly-this wasn’t anything like needing to look a GMO fed piglet tummies), and I did consider sending it to pathology for a laugh. I did not, however, taste it to prove it was a gummy worm (ugh).

It is child abuse…pure and simple. This utterly vile creature has been treating her autistic child for 8 years, with gawd knows what other invasive, painful biomedical treatment protocols, because she views her child as being a dirty infected/infested being.

If she does reside in Malaysia and her child’s “therapist” at school is dosing JoJo with castor bean pills…it speak volumes about the non-existent safeguards in place, to protect little kids from their abusers.

@lilady – Yeah,UNICEF voiced concerns about how seriously Malaysian teachers will take their reporting duties. Poor JoJo.

@Todd – fabulous, thanks! Puppies, sloths, kittens, the whole shebang. A guaranteed cheerer-upper.

@Chris Hickle – Before our elderly dad (my father in law) died he was obsessed with his um… evacuations. For some reason he was convinced he had, or would get, stomach cancer.

Tummy ache after eating a pound of Cheshire cheese? Cancer!

Diarrhoea after downing litres of milk? Cancer!

The high point was the shrieking call, 5am when we’d been asleep for an hour with all of our lovely medications kicking in and taking us to dreamland. Picture it, strident ringtone (yeah, Doctor Who theme), then howls of “IT’S BLACK OMG IT’S BLACK, THIS IS IT, I’M FINISHED!”

It took twenty minutes to convince him that the cramps and black stools were. the result of him eating the half birthday cake we’d left him in one sitting. Half of Other Mrs elburto’s cake, a Tardis cake that was covered in blue royal icing. The cramps? Well who would get mere crampy, after wolfing down more than a kilo of birthday cake and blue icing, than a 75 year old man with diverticular disease?

He found ‘worms’ too (grape skins), ‘blood’ in his urine and faeces (he’d eaten a jar of pickled beetroot, the results terrified him!), ‘blood clots’ (cherries, and all manner of delights. We miss him, but not the middle of the night calls to get to the hospital because he’d had a ‘heart attack’* after a weird bowel movement, and thought he’d die of cancer. Poor old thing. He never got cancer yet, and died at 77.

*Usually a panic attack which then triggered his AF, and required three days of attempted cardioversion by any means possible.

Re: gut flora, studying the human microbiome (not only gut but all the interesting little groups of beasties that live in or on us) is a hot area of basic science at the moment, and there is early evidence to suggest that they can play a role in many normal biological processes and potentially pathologies as well, including some intriguing hints on a role in emotion regulation. However, the difference is that the researchers in the field know it is actually very complex and we are still at the earliest stages of understanding it, nowhere near being able to tell how (or whether) an individuals microbiome could or should be manipulated to improve health. And I am pretty sure that not one of them would recommend bleach as a therapeutic strategy!
That poor child – it breaks my heart a little to think he is, in essence, being tortured by the one who he should be able to trust most will protect him.

@ elburto
Thanks for the laugh–I had to clean off the keyboard very quickly since I had a mouthful of water! Reminds me of my Dad who died a few months ago, in his sleep, at age 80. Ye gods and little fishes, could that man complain!

Oh, from the abstract:


We estimated associations between U.S. Environmental Protection Agency modeled levels of hazardous air pollutants at the time and place of birth and ASD in the children of participants in the Nurses’ Health Study II (325 cases, 22,101 controls). Our analyses focused on pollutants associated with ASD in prior research. We accounted for possible confounding and ascertainment bias by adjusting for family-level socioeconomic status (maternal grandparents’ education) and census-tract-level socioeconomic measures (e.g., tract median income and percent college educated), as well as maternal age at birth and year of birth. We also examined possible differences in the relationship between ASD and pollutant exposures by child’s sex.

So basically they guessed….classy.

@ AdamG:

Dr Offit’s recent book, the excerpt @ The Guardian and his NYT commentary have already been taken down briefly by Gary Null ( Friday’s show, PRN/ 17 minutes in) – more is forthcoming I’m told..
Promises, promises.

Basically, he argues that Dr O is an ignorant pharma shill, the studies he cites are garbage and supplements are purity and the divine life force coalesced into conveniently-sized, easy to swallow tablets/ capsules.

Oh, and there’s a paradigm shift of tsunamic strength about to engulf SBM and wash it clean..

Oxalic acid is a chelator, so I recommend strawberry-rhubarb pie with every meal. No exceptions.

Is potage germiny mandatory as a starter?

I saw this linked in the Alex thread, ugh it makes me sick.
On the rare occasion that my brother or I got threadworms as kids, all we had to go through was taking a chalky, orange flavoured pill from the chemists(the whole family did), with a repeat dose a week or so later, and everything was completely sorted. Seriously, what the hell? If it’s taking months or years to treat supposed parasites, it’s not working!
Of course, the sick thing is that the quack who sells this “treatment” knows very well what the results, the stripping of the colon lining, looks like and uses it to fearmonger and string these parents along into injuring their children even more, like a vicious cycle. Ugghhvomit

@kruuth: I know some people tried to link autism to coal-fired emissions, but I think that has been debunked.

Kruuth @#34, I think part of the drumbeat for ‘gut flora’ is that it’s a popular subject even in mainstream circles now, with patients being advised by doctors to keep up consumption of yogurt, etc. during antibiotics courses. Like a lot of woo, it’s a good idea (diet, stress reduction, cleanliness) taken to a ridiculous extreme.

The whole yogurt thing is a load of crap. It’s just an urban legend that was never really proven. I had cancer sores for years and the only thing my mother ever did was tell me to “eat yogurt” all the while I was in agony. Never gave a damb to take me to a real doctor about it. 20 years later I’m in my oral surgeon’s office and he sees one of these monstrosities in my mouth, gives me chlorhexidine and they almost stop completely. I get a few flare-ups but nothing like before.

I still haven’t forgiven ma for that.

children have occasionally been killed by hypermagnesemia caused by Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) enemas

Showing once again that for any really stupid way of killing a child, there is a parent somewhere who will find it.

does the Jojo’s mom case sound to anyone like Münchausen syndrome by proxy?

Rivera’s entire operation is basically Munchausen-by-proxy-by-proxy.

Half of Other Mrs elburto’s cake, a Tardis cake that was covered in blue royal icing

Why does that not surprise me?

Surprisingly reasonable, although there’s a slight hint of false balance.

“In the letter, Burzynski wrote that, ‘based on the results of the phase 2 trials, the FDA has granted permission to proceed into two Phase 3 clinical trials in brain tumors.'”

@ Adam G. I must be “missing” the spot to comment on that USA Today link you provided about Dr. Offit’s book. Could you provide it?

Narad:

Is potage germiny mandatory as a starter?

Well, for the fruit-reluctant, potage germiny could be an alternative to the strawberry rhubarb pie. Though heaven knows there’s nothing better than rhubarb and strawberry. 😉 (Except maybe if you add chocolate.)

My husband is one of those who loathes cilantro, so I have found a couple of substitutes. One is lemon thyme. The other is wood sorrel, which grows in abundance around here, even if you don’t want it to. It’s a bit like dandelions in that regard. Though I don’t think it’s at all related to sheep sorrel, it also gets its tart flavor from oxalic acid, and is very tasty.

@kruuth- I feel your pain, literally. Not only on the mouth ulcers, but the mother. Mine “trained” as a homeopath. Any symptom (other than asthma attacks) was met with a proffered sugar pill, or a muttered “Buck up kid”.

I’m glad you discovered the miracle of swilling chlorhexidine around your mouth! I adore pharmaceuticals in their many and varied forms, especially those which zap pain. They certainly beat having a manky sugar pill shoved under my tongue

Thanks elburto. My mom can’t understand why I’m so curt with her on so many health things and then I remind her of the hell I went through with her bs diagnoses and yogurt to cure everything. I would go weeks where I couldn’t eat anything because of that and she’d just laugh and claim it was a “swollen taste bud” and I just needed some yogurt. I can’t even count how many times I lost weeks of school for getting sick from something she deemed wasn’t that important. She sent me to school with strep more than once.

@hdb – We are almoSt painfully geeky. For her 40th birthday my friends made her a chocolate Dalek cake. Our entire belief system is essentially “If you’re going to be weird, be really weird”. Luckily for us our friends aren’t exactly paragons of normality either!

@Calli – our garden is loaded with rhubarb, giant rhubarb. We sometimes get three foot long stalks. Unfortunately neither of us can eat it, I mean we can, but the side-effects are catastrophic, I’m sure I don’t have to elaborate!

A few years ago, the Age of Autism folks were very upset about a mother who killed her child with bleach, but now that bleach treatment is part of the antivaccine memespace, it is vgorously defended. How long before current tragedies are transmuted into novel treatments that are flogged at antivax festivals, and defended just as strongly? Might MMS be replaced with MSS (miracle stabbing solution (how dare you show your ignorance by noticing that MMS is bleach, or that MSS is a knife!)?

I’ve said it before, but I think it bears repeating for tone….

I’ve drunk bleach in reasonable dilution. Sodium hypochlorite bleach works fine to sanitize drinking water if you dilute it to a safe concentration. This is useful in some circumstances when camping or otherwise out in the wilds. The problem with MMS is not just that people are making their children drink bleach (or giving them enemas with it) – it’s that the bleach doesn’t do what they say it does.

If there were good evidence that chlorine dioxide mixed with a weak acid and used as an enema actually did something useful, I’d be in favor of it. As there isn’t and it appears it tears up the intestines, that’s abuse.

I’ve known about the idiocy that is MMS for a couple of years and I still look upon the imbeciles who use it with incredulity. But the talk of intestinal worms got my reminiscence gland secreting vague memory hormones.

It’s a long time since I’ve mentioned my training in the RN but the mention of anthelmintics reminded me of one treatment which was taught (but never to my knowledge, prescribed);

Male Fern Extract.

Anyone else heard of it?

Apologies for the slight off topic detour.

Dr. Offit was on the CBS Morning News: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50149140n

OT, I had pinworms as a kid 60+ years ago, and I remember taking pills that made your mouth purple if you didn’t swallow them quickly. We were living in Alaska in a house without running water. I assume that had a lot to do with it.

@Trends: When Kerri Rivera first appeared at Autism One a year ago, Julie Obradovic defended her on AoA. She was forced to furiously packpedal when she was called out on it by a “HuffPo” (!) contributor. This year, AoA completely ignored Rivera, probably because they knew discussing her would arouse negative publicity for Autism One and themselves.

Chris Hickie (#40): “The worm was clear on cross sectioning (grossly-this wasn’t anything like needing to look a GMO fed piglet tummies), and I did consider sending it to pathology for a laugh.”

Well, a gummy worm would be better than some of the foreign objects that docs fish out of various orifices and bodily organs and send us in Pathology. My favorite was the steel girder that a construction worker impaled himself on after falling from a great height (as I recall, he was fine after they extracted it from him, or vice versa).

“Oh, gird your loins. I could have sworn you said ‘girder’.”

I went to that blog after Liz Ditz posted the link a couple days ago in a previous post here. I tried to read it but I just couldn’t continue. The arrogance and ignorance of that woman and what she is inflicting on her son! And then boasting about her torture online for all the world to see? Why is Child Protective Services not beating down her door and removing him from her ‘care’ immediately? What state and county does she live in? I’ll call them and make a report and give them the link for them to read for themselves that she’s systematically giving her son a chemical colectomy. She has self diagnosed him with something she imagines is true and really she’s just dissolving his colon. This makes me truly sick and ache with pain for the children subjected to this by their ‘parents’.

I have an almost completely off-topic question, but don’t know where else to ask. I have just been told that amber teething necklaces “work” because they produce succinic acid when the beads rest against the skin. As far as I can tell from Wikipedia, what the mother probably means is spirit of amber – butanedioic acid – which used to be used topically for rheumatism.

I’m pretty sure I know the answer to my question, but you are educated, which I am not. My question is: would either butanedioc acid or succinic acid be produced by resting amber to the skin & would either be able to ease teething pain? Is there someplace on-line I can reference (besides here) when I give her my reply?

I truely appreciate any help you can give me – and thanks so much for the free education I’m getting! 🙂

🙁 Self teaching is hard! I reread the wiki article & I think the two acids are the same thing.

Is there someplace on-line I can reference (besides here) when I give her my reply?

This seems like a reasonable summary at first glance.

@ Bonnie:

Amber appeals to those who believe in the power of the natural world and the wisdom of the ancients:
going back to the Romans, it was coveted as protection against evil and witches and as a healing substance; later European folklore involved making tinctures from amber.
TONS of lit on amber.

In other words- woo- but it can also be nice worn as a necklace FOR AN ADULT who won’t eat it.

Amber appeals to those who believe in the power of the natural world and the wisdom of the ancients

A quick scan of the MDC forums quickly reveals that a good number of even this self-selected population thinks amber teething trinkets are a load of crap.

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