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“Vaccines: And now my kids don’t die.” I couldn’t have said it better myself.

I love this video. There’s really little else to say other than the tagline: “Vaccines: And now my kids don’t die.” Vaccines truly are a wonder drug. You know it’s good if Orac can’t construct a 3,000 word post around it and decides just to let the video speak for itself:

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

115 replies on ““Vaccines: And now my kids don’t die.” I couldn’t have said it better myself.”

“Even during moderate to severe scourges and plagues.”

The best part are the fine print disclaimers at the end.

Yo Orac,

Back in 1999 I first discovered the webcomic Penny Arcade. One day I discovered a strange add hovering at the top of their page, for a bizarre, Scientology-like cult called Eckankar. I emailed them about this and got a response back from Jerry Holkins explaining that they didn’t at the time control what sort of ads their ad network puts up. (Times have changed, Penny Arcade now has an international fanbase and, tellingly, they themselves have final approval on which ads go up.)

Reason why I mention this is because time goes on, ad networks get more aggressive, and their faux pas get weirder: I just saw an ad for Essiac on your blog.

Now that you have an international fan base, you might be able to have some pull as to a no-woo ad policy on your blog.

I do recall a bit of the panic in the 1950s before the Salk Vaccine when polio was endemic. Perhaps we should interview a few of the remaining parents of that generation to see how they felt about the arrival of the vaccine.

Jeff,

I too have been seeing Essiac banner ads for quite some time.

But wait, it gets better than that: over the past year there have been several ads for MMS and its component ingredients, as well as ads for “quantum jumping,” cancer clinics in Mexico, various psychics and energy healers and all manner of detox products. And probably other woo ads I’ve forgotten.

I look at it as ironic and a supreme waste of the advertisers’ money to have those ads placed here. In some cases I’ve actually learned about new forms of woo (like quantum jumping) of which I was previously unaware.

@ Lyle:

That’s a good point: if you read some of the anti-vax literature, you would think that polio was a walk in a the park.
Yeah right, except that sometimes you couldn’t walk.

I didn’t know they had Youtube in 1800th century London when these illnesses were dangerous due to the living conditions of the era. Who knew. Thank God I live in the 21 century where these illnesses almost never kill anyone and are generally mild

@sid…no, you thank others for being vaccinated so you are less likely to be exposed, the hospitals, doctors, nurses and others who can care for you more effectively (though much more expensively than a vaccine which prevents the disease ahead of time), modern plumbing, clean water, and improved monitoring. Depending on where you live, childhood diseases are still killers.

By the way, sid…we do all know that you don’t give a flying leap for anyone who isn’t a upper middle class WASP, so don’t bother going there.

No reason to thank people who do things for their own self interest or because they are forced or tricked into it

It’s always a bit of a shock when people say they see ads on this site. For many of us there is adblock, I think comes with the ‘Chrome’ browser. We see none at all, which pleases me indeed after what is said to be there. yuk

Sid: Yeah, cause if the illness doesn’t kill the kid, your crowd will happily finish the job. Is AOA still happily crowing over the latest wave of murders?

Generally mild, like being bedridden and feeling awful in an uneventful case of measles. Mild like the 88 hospitalisations and 1 death from the 1,200 cases of measles we saw in Wales recently(and let’s hope we don’t see any future SSPE cases from this outbreak), despite modern living conditions.

I know I’ve mentioned all that to him before on here, actually. But Sid’s just fine with that amount of suffering, being the arse that he is. I just wish he would be honest about not caring about other people, rather than lying about how serious these preventable diseases actually are to justify his idiotic views to himself.

Laugh about the Essiac all you want but when I had an ovarian tumor (large), the Essiac actually got rid of it. When I told the gynecologist who was monitoring it, what I had taken, he scratched his head and said something to the effect that whatever I did seemd to help. He was sure he would have to monitor it for a while and remove it surgically. You’ll probably say it would have disappeared anyway (which is possible) but I think it was the Essiac (Flor Essence version) that got the job done.

Did anyone set off RI’s fire alarm? Why is the fire science graduate, from a fourth tier college, here?

Jen Jen Jen…it is not uncommon for ovarian cysts to disappear without any intervention at all. Most ovarian cysts are benign BTW as was yours.

If you are suggesting that anyone with cancer should take Essiac then you are a truly disgusting human being. That is tantamount to advocating suicide. It is also illegal in the US.

“It is rather amusing that Sid still reads Respectful Insolence.”

It is rather amusing that Sid still reads at all.

The Essaic ad here on RI features a prominent Canadian flag in the corner. I assume it’s legal here (after all, it was “invented” by a Canadian!), and they get around the law by shipping to the US from Canada.

(Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be Canadian.)

So vaccines are dangerous but Essaic is good? Is that the take-away message?

Orac, Scienceblogs is still vomiting up error messages.

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As for Sid Offitt:

Thank God I live in the 21 century where these illnesses almost never kill anyone and are generally mild.

A little thing called vaccination had something to do with that, dimwit.

Remember that Sid has troubles with basic English comprehension. I’d even waiver that English is not his first language. How else can you explain him directly telling a mother who pleaded for others to get the flu vaccine after her own child died of influenza that the flu is not a big deal?

¿Tal vez si le explicamos en español nos entiende mejor? ¿O nos acusara de ser ilegales?

Thank God I live in the 21 century where [safe and effective vaccines have reduced the incidence of] these illnesses.

FTDY

Laugh about the Essiac all you want but when I had an ovarian tumor (large), the Essiac actually got rid of it.

How exactly have you factually established this, Jen? I mean, it’s on some basis other than a post hoc ergo proctor hoc logical fallacy–right?

My fellow and sister scepticas might be enlightened by taking a peek at sid’s/ Robert’s The Vaccine Machine facebook page:
it’s very active, frequently updated and has lots of friends. The conversations and helpful hints passed around there amongst its denizens are worth reading ( that’s not a compliment).

In other news:

anti-vaxxers/ alt media seem to blame the external world ( i.e. SBM) for all their/ our woes ( see Kim @ AoA, Mary’s mother @ TMR, Mike @ Natural News) whether it’s autism, medical /legal problems or mass murders. It’s the vax/ meds, it’s always the vax/ meds.

-btw- isn’t Kim’s youngest ( who is featured here) the child who WASN’T vaccinated?

@Manduca – you may be buying a lot of shoes (or at least window-shopping)….I was getting faucets, sinks & LED lights for a while, when I was kitchen shopping.

Thank God I live in the 21 century where these illnesses almost never kill anyone and are generally mild

What kind of blinkered xenophobe makes a statement like that on a planet where measles, pertussis, tetanus and hepatitis B alone kill 1.2 million people every year?

If antivaxxers only made an effort to reduce vaccine uptake below herd immunity thresholds in the developed world where VPDs are relatively rare, and never turned their attention to the developed world perhaps it wouldn’t be so bad. After all they are still considered the lunatic fringe by most.

However, I see antivaxxers trying to dissuade parents from vaccinating their children against rotavirus in a country where it kills 3 in 1,000 children, because of a side effect that was not seen in almost half a million children given the vaccine using the same schedule. Despicable and almost unbelievable.

Elsewhere I see them claiming that the polio virus has actually increased the number of children with paralysis. Also demonstrably untrue.

Sadly people in the developed world do have access to the internet, where they can read Sid and other antivaxxers’ lies and misinformation and make decisions about their children’s health based on them. I suspect they simply don’t care.

DL,DL,DL,
I have not suggested anyone with cancer take Essiac. I did say that I do think it got rid of my tumor (benign). It was not a cyst. If you’re starting out this defensive and hostile and you’ve just ‘de-lurked’ then you’re a pretty sad human being.

@jen – for someone who spends a awful lot of time here (reading, though not commenting, based on your “insightful” discussion points at AoA), I’m surprised you don’t recognize DL – he’s been here for a long while.

sid:

No reason to thank people who do things for their own self interest or because they are forced or tricked into it

I vaccinate for self-interest. I’ll be honest and say I am not doing it primarily to protect the rest of the community. The main reason is so *I* don’t catch the diseases. That it also protects the community is a wonderful bonus, and a fabulous thing that absolutely should drive public policy, but I’d vaccinate even if it didn’t protect the community.

Same reason I get my dog vaccinated against rabies. Oh, I know it’s the law, and I know we want to protect anyone she comes into contact with, and that the law is interested in protection of everybody else. But rabies is horrific, and she’s much more likely to catch it than I am, since she loves chasing squirrels and such; damn straight I want her protected from that. Not to mention distemper and bordatella.

I got my flu shot on Monday, BTW.

My fellow and sister scepticas might be enlightened by taking a peek at sid’s/ Robert’s The Vaccine Machine facebook page:
it’s very active, frequently updated and has lots of friends. The conversations and helpful hints passed around there amongst its denizens are worth reading ( that’s not a compliment).

Yes, if you want to see anti-vaxers really letting their freak flags fly, it’s a fascinating study. A bunch of paranoid and totally unqualified people giving each other terrible advice. One poster laments that her family members refuse to let anyone who hasn’t been vaccinated into their home (they have a baby who had a heart transplant at 2 months.) Guess who the other group members sided with?

@jen – Essiac is snake oil. If it worked, the Essiac website wouldn’t need this lengthy Quack Miranda warning plastered on every page: http://essiacinfo.org/helping.html

Rene Caisse was just another hustler who used the “ancient wisdom” gambit (the recipe allegedly came from an unnamed Ojibwa medicine man) to sell a quack nostrum to desperate people. I’m sure it was much easier than doing real nursing.

@Calli Arcale: BTW… Squirrels do not present a risk for rabies. While they can succumb to rabies, it is extremely rare. The last publicized case of rabies discovered in a squirrel was in Pennsylvania in 2003 and a previous report was 12 years before. Raccoons really are considered a risk where I live.

@Edith – I can only imagine…..person (much less a baby) with a compromised immune system….how dare they take steps to insure the utmost safety for that individual…..

@ Edith:

I’ve been following that page for a while- woo hoo!

@ Calli:

I vaccinate because I work with students/ potential students age 18-40+. I also play tennis indoors where many children and adults gather in a common room overlooking the courts( In the past, I used to counsel people who had compromised immune systems and also visited several people who were in their late 80s or early nineties). One of my close associates has asthma and works with children.. Another associate works in an office. Others have children and grandchildren. I also hate being sick because it cramps my style.

I did say that I do think it got rid of my tumor (benign). It was not a cyst.

And my question, as always, is why you believe Essiac got rid of your tumor, benign or otherwise.

Can you explain how you’ve come to that conclusion?

JustNuts — I know squirrels aren’t a common vector, but the urge to chase them could draw her into a conflict with an animal that is: raccoons, for instance. Animal control trapped a rabid raccoon in my neighborhood just a few weeks ago. Now *that* is scary.

Denice — and that is a good thing, that you vaccinate to protect them! I don’t work with students or children (other than my own) or the elderly, so I don’t have the occupational imperative. And I don’t want to imply that you shouldn’t vaccinate for altruistic reasons. I just want to point out that these vaccines are good for you *individually*, so Sid’s apparent disdain for the altruistic angle is, in my opinion, vacuous, fatuous, and, depending which vaccine he’s talking about at the time, perhaps nauseous as well. (OK, so I ran out of rhymes.)

“… so Sid’s apparent disdain for the altruistic angle is, in my opinion, *vacuous, *fatuous, and, depending which vaccine he’s talking about at the time, perhaps *nauseous as well. (OK, so I ran out of rhymes.)

*disingenuous ?

@ Calli Arcale, JustNuts:
I have read rabies is most often found in the skunk population these days. Apparently the rabies vaccine can last up to 7 years. Your vet can check the titer count to see whether or not the vaccine is needed.

not to mention Iniquitous, unrighteous, nefarious, atrocious, noxious, scrofulous, and morally bankrupt.

Nice ones, folks! There are lots of great rhymes. 😉

I’m okay with vaccinating every 2 years as the law requires. 7 years may be okay for protecting her from rabies, but I also need to protect her from needing to be euthanized for rabies testing if she bites someone….

jen,

I did say that I do think it got rid of my tumor (benign). It was not a cyst.

I assume your ovarian mass was removed surgically (that’s the usual way an ovarian tumor is biopsied), otherwise you couldn’t know it was a benign tumor, could you? If so, isn’t it more likely that the surgery removed the entire tumor, rather than the Essiac doing anything at all? Or do you have some other reason to think the Essiac had some beneficial effect?

Edith Prickly,

More bad news for the likes of Offal – it appears the chicken pox vaccine has been highly effective:

I do hope the UK Ministry of Health takes note; it’s about time we had routine varicella vaccination here.

Jen

Of course you made up your mind using a logical fallacy, that does not surprise any of the regulars here at all. We would not have expected anything less from you 🙂

BTW as has been pointed out I have been a regular reader of Orac’s ramblings for at least 5 years and have posted sporadically here for about the same time. I did post earlier with my other ‘nym but it resulted in a flood of quacks and scammers to my other sandbox where we do not tolerate snake oil salespeople like you.

Enjoy your tea 😉 Time for you to toddle off to your hive of child murderers and abusers

@ Calli:

The people I described are/ were not all clients- I also included social contacts..

-btw- how about:
specious, scurrilous, odious, obnoxious, egregious, devious?

Just got my flu shot. From a multidose vial 😀 I admit I did not ask for extra thimerosal though.

Vaccines…now I don’t have to roll the dice on being utterly miserable for a week.

Oh, yikes, I need to schedule that. As well as the *other* appointment that I’ve been putting off for a year (at least..)

Living and working in the tropics on several continents for the past 40 odd years I have had numerous vaccinations, of varying effectiveness. The cholera vaccination is one of the least efficacious by my understanding. Never the less, I have never had cholera, typhoid, typhus, hepatitus, polio, and maybe one or two more I can’t remember. So far as I can tell I am none the worse for wear from repeated vaccinations for these scourages. I have had two diseases for which there are no vaccines, malaria and dengue fever. For malaria there is prophylaxis which in the form of Lariam, AKA Fansidar I have the questionable legacy of horrific nightmarish dreams… still it is better than being dead I guess. There is no prophylaxisis for ‘breakbone fever’ however, and I have now had it twice.

Without vaccines, it is doubtful that I would still be alive.

And yes, I was a child in the 50s – polio was an awful disease.

I consider pedalling this anti-vaccine nonesense to be criminal. The anti-vax folks should all be required to spend a month or two in equatorial Africa… it might change their point of view.

^ Well, a less-developed country is the closest thing to Victorian-era Europe/America we have in this world (time machines having not been invented yet).

It’s ironic and pathetic that we are undermining herd immuity in our own country whilst encouraging it in the less-developed world. Have we forgotten our history?

Lucario,

It’s ironic and pathetic that we are undermining herd immuity in our own country whilst encouraging it in the less-developed world. Have we forgotten our history?

That merely makes me furious, it’s when I see those idiots trying to persuade African mothers that vaccination is dangerous, that I become almost incandescent. I wholeheartedly agree with Krubozumo Nyankoye – send them to a developing country for a couple of months. Perhaps unvaccinated would be best, so they can see how effective their super-powered 21st century immune systems are in practice.

Personally speaking, I’d have the words “oleaginous” or “unctuous” in there somewhere.
Along with “vexatious”

AoA has a post up about this child, who is being denied access to kindergarten in NYC. I think someone already mentioned the case (Narad perhaps?). Poor kid; her mother is a religious nut and our old “friend” Patricia Finn is the lawyer on the case.

http://www.supportmarysrights.com/

@ lilady:

It was me: the mother’s post was featured @ TMR.

dingo199:

‘oleaginous’ for certain.

@lilady – so what is the doctor saying that “vaccines will kill this child?” Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me…..

Clearly Dina’s problem isn’t that anyone has prevented her from worshipping freely, following her individual spiritual beliefs and conscience or choosing what is beneficial for her child.

Her problem is that she had some strange idea that the choice she made would be free of consequence (such as her daughter becoming ineligible to attend kindergarten.)

@JGC – I read the letter from “Mary’s Mom.” She sounds like an outright lunatic…..there is definitely something wrong there.

Where’s the petition to Support Mary’s Right to not be put at risk by an antivax crackpot mother who believes in praying illness away? I’ll sign that one.

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