Happy New Year! Vaccines do not cause autism in 2015, either

“so common is this finding now that I didn’t see a single news story about this study. That’s rather unfortunate, because I believe that it helps to publicize such studies, as yet another example of the depth and breadth of the evidence that has failed to find a link between vaccines and autism.”

Well, they’re still studying it, so they must not be sure. 😉

And whoa, Fukushima University? That’ll give Mike Adams plenty of dots to connect…

Denice, I can teach you to knit.

@ shay:

Thanks but that’s a little sedate for me – besides I already have enough scarves.
I was thinking more along the lines of falconry or orienteering ( I already can do the latter by car).

Don’t worry, there’s always something to scoff at on the internet….I’ll find it.

Yes, but you can knit and scoff at the same time. I imagine falconry and orienteering are two activities that require a certain degree of concentration.

Unless you’re into scars.

That’s the good news.

Here’s the bad news: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-aa2-snapshot-measles-whooping-cough-20150108-story.html#page=1

The outbreak includes 7 confirmed cases in CA, all under 21 mos old: 4 unvaccinated, 2 too young for it, and one vaccinated child. Plus two others who returned to Utah, and 3 more unconfirmed CA cases.

Rob, this you miss this:
http://retractionwatch.com/2014/10/04/journal-makes-it-official-retracting-controversial-autism-vaccine-paper/

You seem to out of touch with more recent events.

There have been measles cases reported in half the United States in the last year. The common denominator in almost all the outbreaks?

I’ll give you three guesses, but I’m sure you only need one.

Orac’s right, we need to publicize the safety of vaccines and ensure that everyone that can be vaccinated is.

OT:
Jeffrey Beall alerts us to the fact that Seneff and Samsel have recycled their anti-Glyphosate material for re-publication in a second junk journal:
http://scholarlyoa.com/2015/01/08/anti-roundup-glyphosate-researchers-use-easy-oa-journals-to-spread-their-views

Expect to see that propagating through the loonier realms of the Interlattice.

Seneff is also on-board with homeopathic magic water now, to explain how infinitesimal doses of chemicals can cause all diseases, though she disguises it behind a sepia cloud of bafflegab. I give you “Biological Water Dynamics and Entropy: A Biophysical Origin of Cancer and Other Diseases“:

the unique physical properties of quantum coherent nanomolecular clusters of magnetized water

OK, I can’t help it.

magnetized water

Where are the half-filled orbitals coming from?

I am surprised that Seneff and co. published “Biological Water Dynamics and Entropy” in “Entropy”, when it would be more appropriate for “Water”

Perhaps this (PDF) will be submitted there. (Pitkänen seems to have had to move from the arXiv to viXra; it’s not there yet, though. He remains busy, though.)

Completely OT but wondered what you guys think about this? I know similar cases have been discussed on here before, but the children were generally much younger than 17.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/01/08/connecticut-supreme-court-upholds-ruling-that-teen-must-undergo-chemo/

“The Connecticut Supreme Court upheld a prior ruling Thursday that a 17-year-old cancer patient cannot refuse chemotherapy treatment for Hodgkin lymphoma.

The state argued that the teen lacked competency extended to maturity, as well, and that they did not believe she understood the severity of her prognosis.”

Seneff is also on-board with homeopathic magic water now, to explain how infinitesimal doses of chemicals can cause all diseases, though she disguises it behind a sepia cloud of bafflegab. I give you “Biological Water Dynamics and Entropy: A Biophysical Origin of Cancer and Other Diseases“

This is one of the most entertaining things I have come across in a while. I sort of hope she keeps publishing this crap just for the lulz.

chemomo – Heard about the measles outbreak in CA. That is going to be bad, the vaccination rate in CA is abysmal.

annie – I saw that article as well. I think that courts should allow doctors to treat minor children when the parent (and sometimes the child) is opting for woo. Problem with this one is that she is 18 and unless they can treat her successfully by I think September then she will be legally an adult to choose what she likes. I just really wish people wouldn’t get taken in by quacks.

Bonus Seneff:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2014/491316/

@hdb

Well, thanks for showing Seneff’s links to Shaw and Tomljenovic to indicate the extent of her difficulties.

“What are the vax rates in Japan? Are they facing VPD outbreaks? Is anti-vax hysteria A Thing there? Do they have their own versions of AoA etc., their own celebrity anti-vaxers? Is there a Japanese analog to Dr. Oz?”

Low. Yes. Yes. Perhaps. Perhaps. Maybe. And they are mostly explained in the paper, and in Orac’s article.

The vaccine policies in Japan have unfortunately been made by politicians bending to the will of pressure groups. It happened in the 1970s with their pertussis vaccine. See:
Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.

Which says:

An antivaccine movement developed in Japan as a consequence of increasing numbers of adverse reactions to whole-cell pertussis vaccines in the mid-1970s. After two infants died within 24 h of the vaccination from 1974 to 1975, the Japanese government temporarily suspended vaccinations. Subsequently, the public and the government witnessed the re-emergence of whooping cough, with 41 deaths in 1979. This series of unfortunate events revealed to the public that the vaccine had, in fact, been beneficial.

That series of events is one of the comparative narratives in Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story.

Also, the issue with their version of the MMR caused a break in measles vaccination. This also had severe consequences, as noted in Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan, which says:

Since Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine was introduced into Japan in 1989, a number of cases of post-vaccination aseptic meningitis have been reported and these have been attributed to the use of Urabe Am9 mumps vaccine [8]. In 1993, the Ministry of Health and Welfare (MHW) withdrew the domestically produced MMR vaccine [9]. As of 1994, an amendment to the Immunization Law made vaccination voluntary and not mandatory. …. snip… Until January 2004, adminisiration of measles vaccine was recommended between 12 and 24 months of age, instead of between 12 and 15 months when children have the greatest risk of contracting measles [10]. In Japan, measles vaccine coverage has remained low, and either small or moderate outbreaks have occurred repeatedly in communities. According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

By the way, mumps vaccination is still very low. The PubMeds contain many papers from Japan about issues of low vaccination rates. Some medical practitioners there are not happy with their government bowing to anti-vaccine whims. One example:
Vaccine. 2014 Jul 23;32(34):4253-8. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2014.06.022. Epub 2014 Jun 18.
Recent progress and concerns regarding the Japanese immunization program: addressing the “vaccine gap”.

There a few more from a decade or so ago with authors decrying the fact that Japan was major source of measles importation to the USA. An example:
J Travel Med. 2008 Mar-Apr;15(2):82-6. doi: 10.1111/j.1708-8305.2008.00183.x.
Measles exportation from Japan to the United States, 1994 to 2006.

The conclusion says, emphasis added: “Trend of exported measles cases from Japan to the United States has corresponded with the measles activity trend in Japan. Most of the cases were unvaccinated. This international health problem should be solved by strong leadership of Japanese public health professionals.”

And whilst we’re on the topic of theme parks and other atrocities, I just learned that Jenny married an actor’s brother and has a new reality show. Photos at Daily Mail, today.

Speaking of “riddled with errors,” my prose above has quite a few. Sheesh.

@ JP:

Neither he nor his spirit.
Another strange person.

Altho’ , believe it or not, I am related ( through a cousin’s marriage) to many people named Heaney.

JP: “The class we were GSI-ing for was on Central and Eastern European film”

Filmies? Do tell! What kind of degree were you working on? What was on the screening list?

“It seems like it’ll easy – hey, it’s just movies, right?”
Tell me about it. They probably get that ‘tude from their advisors, as that’s how most STEM faculty imagine film courses. ‘You’ve got a tough bio-chem class this term. Let’s find a gut to fill out your schedule. Here we go! Film class! Watch movies, toss a little BS. No problemo!’ (To be fair, it’s not just STEM faculty with that stereotype.)

So I nipped that bs in the bud in my FLM 101 that counted for Gen Ed. The first three screenings were:
Even Dwarfs Started Small by Werner Herzog
Tout Va Bien by Godard
A program of experimental films concluding with (nostalgia) by Hollis Frampton

I also had them read Mulvey’s “Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema” though I didn’t expect them to get it until I decoded the Lacanian vocabulary in class (not that hard actually, and it’s remarkably clear once ‘translated’.)

By my second year, nobody enrolled looking for a gut, but the wait list for the class was just as long, it having developed a ‘rep’ for the ‘right reasons: weird but engagingly challenging.

sadmar, my apologies, I may have enough prior information to fill in the holes in this quoted part of the paper:

MMR vaccination in Japan was conducted under specific circumstances and for only a short period of time. A combined MMR vaccination program commenced from April 1989, and only one vaccination using MMR was included in the immunization schedule. The monovalent mumps, measles, and rubella vaccines remained the optimal choice of vaccine for those who did not participate in the MMR program. However, soon after the immunization program had started, there were several cases of aseptic meningitis, which may have been caused by the mumps vaccine [31]. As a result, in April 1993, the Government ceased extensive inoculation with MMR. Therefore, children who were born from April 1984 to April 1992 could receive MMR vaccination. However, children who were born between April 1984 and March 1986 were able to receive it after the age of three. Therefore, they were excluded from the samples, because autism features always appear before the age of three. As a result, children who were born from April 1986 to April 1992 were included in the present study.

There may have more information contained in Reference #31. Also, you will see some of the narrative is similar to the one I quoted about the uncompleted vaccination in a couple of areas in Japan.

@Sadmar:

I’m not a filmy in particular – I’m working on a PhD in Slavic Languages and Literature, just took my prelims this past spring. (I do Russian and Polish poetry, mainly 1970s and 80s, in a very small nutshell.) The film courses are the cash cows of the department, though, and provide a lot of GSI-ships. It was the one semester I got to teach something other than second year Russian. (Not to toot my own horn, but I’m a very good and well-loved Russian instructor. The language coordinator was always loathe to let me do anything else.)

There were three units in the course: one on the Holocaust / World War II, one on gender, and one on the Balkan conflict(s). We used a coursepack for the reading, with a lot of history (the students really needed context), a bit of sociology, and some film theory. I’d have to go back and look through it to remember all the authors.

Some of the films we watched:

First unit:
Agnieska Holland, In Darkness.
Zbyněk Brynych, Transport From Paradise.
Ján Kadár and Elmar Klos, The Shop on Main Street.
Jan Hřebejk, Divded We Fall.
Plus others.

Second unit:
Agniezka Holland, A Woman Alone.
Věra Chytilová, Daises.
Plus others.

Third Unit:
Srđan Dragojević, Pretty Village, Pretty Flame.
Danis Tanović, No Man’s Land.
Milcho Manchevski, Before the Rain.
Plus others.

Sadmar: “At this point, I think most folks would be pragmatic enough to try a different stick. It seems to me skeptics are defined by such a thorough belief in the power, rectitude and righteousness of their stick*, they don’t do that, and just keep whacking. Damn it. It has to work!”

Yeah, that’s kind of my opinion too. It’s especially frustrating, since so many are women and I thought that whole ‘ruled by emotions’ idea should have gone out with the sixties. These are people who presumably had careers, so they should know better than to think that emotions and feelings have any place in the real world.
My personal idea is that the per-child deduction should be correlated with medical records- no vaccines, no deduction. Or that vaccines should be vanished from areas with large swathes of anti-vax sentiment, and then peer pressure should be given time to work. Or the preschools in anti-vax areas should be shut down.

My children have been vaccine-free since 2004. I started home schooling them and they haven’t been sick since. No one has had the flu, chicken pox, measles whooping, cough, etc. EVER.
Personally, the only vaccine I can remember taking (I was born in 1957) was the oral polio sugar cube vaccine given to us at school when I was in kindergarten. Now I am finding out that it contained a cancer virus! The CDC even admits it: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cdc-disappears’-page-linking-polio-vaccines-cancer-causing-viruses1
So far, I don’t have it, and I NEVER GET SICK. We eat organic as much as possible, I drink lots of coffee, get moderate exercise, and stay away from crowds. Neurological and gut damage from vaccines is another story. Overall we are making good progress getting out of the hole.

As far as Japan goes, the radiation will get them before the vaccines will.

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Perelandra (Space Trilogy, #2)Perelandra by C.S. Lewis
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Perelandra Quotes (showing 1-30 of 58)
“Whatever you do, He will make good of it. But not the good He had prepared for you if you had obeyed him.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
171 likes like
“Be confident small immortals. You are not the only voice that all things utter, nor is there eternal silence in the places where you cannot come.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: inspirational 40 likes like
“The world is so much larger than I thought. I thought we went along paths–but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
34 likes like
“I think He made one law of that kind in order that there might be obedience. In all these other matters what you call obeying Him is but doing what seems good in your own eyes also. Is love content with that?”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: christian, love, obedience, perelandra, science-fiction 19 likes like
“you had nothing to say about it and yet made the nothing up into words.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
14 likes like
“It is not for nothing that you are named Ransom,” said the Voice…

The whole distinction between things accidental and things designed, like the distinction between fact and myth, was purely terrestrial. The pattern is so large that within the little frame of earthly experience there appear pieces of it between which we can see no connection, and other pieces between which we can. Hence we rightly, for our sue, distinguish the accidental from the essential. But step outside that frame and the distinction drops down into the void, fluttering useless wings. He had been forced out of the frame, caught up into the larger pattern… “My name also is Ransom,” said the Voice.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: christian-science-fiction, science-fiction 13 likes like
“Perhaps the experience had been so complete that repetition would be vulgarity – like asking to hear the same symphony twice in a day.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
12 likes like
“I thought … that I was carried in the will of Him I love, but now I see that I walk with it. I thought that the good things He sent drew me into them as the waves lift the islands; but now I see that it is I who plunge into them with my own legs and arms, as when we go swimming. I feel as if I were living in that roofless world of [Earth] where men walk undefended beneath naked heaven. It is a delight with terror in it! One’s own self to be walking from one good to another, walking beside Him as Himself may walk, not even holding hands. How has He made me so separate from Himself? How did it enter His mind to conceive such a thing? The world is so much larger than I thought. I thought we went along paths–but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: delight 10 likes like
“In the name of the Fathers, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, here goes-I mean Amen.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
9 likes like
“Every joy is beyond all others.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
9 likes like
“As long as what you are afraid of is something evil, you may still hope that the good may come to your rescue. But suppose you struggle through to the good and find that it is also dreadful? How if food itself turns out to be the very thing you can’t eat and home the very place you can’t live, and your very comforter the person who makes you uncomfortable. Then, indeed, there is no rescue possible: the last card has been played.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
9 likes like
“Well,’ said Ransom, ‘if it is a delusion, it’s a pretty stubborn one.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
8 likes like
“But suppose you struggle through to the good and find that it also is dreadful? How if food itself turns out to be the very thing you can’t eat, and home the very place you can’t live, and your very comforter the person who makes you uncomfortable? Then, indeed, there is no rescue possible: the last card has been played.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
7 likes like
“Where Maleldil is, there is the centre. He is in every place. Not some of Him in one place and some in another, but in each place the whole Maleldil, even in the smallness beyond though. There is no way out of the centre save into the Bent Will which casts itself into the Nowhere. Blessed be He! Each thing was made for Him. He is the centre. Because we are with Him, each of us is at the centre…In His city all things are made for each. When He died in the Wonded World He died not for men, but for each man. If each mad had been the only man made, He would have done no less. Each thing, from the single grain of Dust to the strongest eldil, is the end and the final cause of all creation and the mirror in which the beam of His brightness comes to rest and so returns to Him. Blessed be He!”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
7 likes like
“I think He made one law of that kind in order that there might be obedience. In all these other matters what you call obeying Him is but doing what seems good in your eyes also. Is love content with that? You do them, indeed, because they are His will, but not only because they are his will. Where can you taste the joy of obeying unless he bids you do something for which His bidding is the only reason?”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: free-will 6 likes like
“Pure, spiritual, intellectual love shot from their faces like barbed lightning. It was so unlike the love we experience that its expression could easily be mistaken for ferocity.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: love 6 likes like
“a creature who has kept a planet in its orbit for several billions of years will be able to manage a packing case!”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
5 likes like
“If he now failed, this world also would hereafter be redeemed. If he were not the ransom, another would be. Yet nothing was ever repeated. Not a second crucifixion; perhaps-who knows-not even a second Incarnation… some act of even more appalling love, some glory of yet deeper humility.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
5 likes like
“The whole struggle was over, and yet there seemed to have been no moment of victory. You might say, if you liked, that the power of choice had been simply set aside and an inflexible destiny substituted for it. On the other hand, you might say he had delivered from the rhetoric of his passions and had emerged in unassailable freedom. Ransom could not for the life of him, see any difference between these two statements. Predestination and freedom were apparently identical. He could no longer see any meaning in the many arguments he had heart on the subject.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
tags: free-will, predestination 5 likes like
“The beasts would not think it hard if I told them to walk on their heads. It would become their delight to walk on their heads. I am His beast, and all His biddings are joys.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
5 likes like
“The word ‘human’ refers to something more than the bodily form or even the rational mind. It refers also to that community of blood and experience which unites all men and women on the Earth.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
5 likes like
“I am not sure whether I can make you understand it. It was something more than a prudent desire to avoid creatures alien in kind, very powerful, and very intelligent. The truth was that all I heard about them served to connect two things which one’s mind tends to keep separate, and that connecting gave one sort of a shock. We tend to think about non-human intelligences in two distinct categories which we label “scientific” and “supernatural” respectively. We think, in one mood, of Mr. Wells’ Martians (very unlike the real Malacandrians, by the bye), or his Selenites. In quite a different mood we let our minds loose on the possibility of angels, ghosts, fairies, and the like. But the very moment we are compelled to recognise a creature in either class as real, the distinction begins to get blurred: and when it is a creature like an eldil the distinction vanishes altogether. These things were not animals-to that extent one had to classify them with the second group; but they had some kind of material vehicle whose presence could (in principle) be scientifically verified. To that extent they belonged to the first group. The distinction between natural and supernatural, in fact, broke down; and when it had done so, one realised how great a comfort it had been-how it had eased the burden of intolerable strangeness which this universe imposes on us by dividing it into two halves and encouraging the mind never to think of both in the same context.”

“There was, no doubt, a confusion of persons in damnation: what Pantheists falsely hoped of Heaven bad men really received in Hell. They were melted down into their Master, as a lead soldier slips down and loses his shape in the ladle over the gas ring.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra

Orac: “I’ve also written about what makes science denialists in general (of which antivaccinationists are just one subspecies) tick. These are applicable to antivaccinationists as well.”

And it does not matter where they live.

I live on the west coast, so I assumed that I would be familiar of the effects of measles being imported from Japan. Oh, and Korea… which caused a measles outbreak in a private school too close for comfort, so I had my two younger kids get their second MMR earlier than suggested by the ACIP. That was before 2002.

Except, in 2008 there was a measles outbreak that was caused by a young Japanese participant in the Little League World Series in Pennsylvania. How could a journalist like sadmar miss that?

Early Disney vaccine trials for H1N1 influenza…..

Current research:
http://www.medicaldaily.com/how-flu-vaccine-caused-narcolepsy-children-case-autoimmune-disease-made-265324

Ooops. “C” now in moderation is me. Don’t know if it’s the links or my accidentally failing to filling in my whole ‘nym.

And… over at AoA, JB Handley is shilling for big bleach, by promoting Kerri Rivera and Jim Humble.

JB – IT’S BLEACH!

any changes THAT occur

LW: “Collective punishment is such a delightful concept.”

Well, it’s the last resort. These people are too thick to deal with any other way.

Toto: Since you started homeschooling (imprisoning) them, have your kids (if they exist) actually ever interacted with any other children? Do you take them to museums? Libraries? Playgrounds? Obviously you won’t have to worry about college, since you apparently never left middle school, and your kids won’t be taught beyond seventh grade.

“Disneyland measles” now in Colorado Springs, Colorado:

Visitors and patients present in the following areas at Penrose Hospital may have been exposed on January 3, 2015:

· Emergency Department and CAT scan suite from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.

· Fourth floor from 4 p.m. to 11 p.m.

Penrose Hospital is notifying potentially exposed patients. Penrose Hospital and El Paso County Public Health are contacting people directly exposed to the individual but the measles virus is highly contagious and other exposures may exist.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Measles-Case-Reported-In-Colorado-Springs-287964041.html

My first quarter of college I took an English class based on science fiction, and I had to slog through Perelandra. Toto has just lost the argument from citing that silly book.

OTOH, he provides an excuse to link to Haldane’s essay for anyone who hasn’t read it:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/haldane/works/1940s/oncslewis.htm

@PGP

Also, most homeschooling parents don’t teach new fangled things like algebra, theory of evolution, heliocentrism, plate tectonics…etc.

Citation needed.

Justhestats: I was describing MY school days. Luckily by middle school, I was the ‘iron lady’ and therefore exempt from schoolyard politics.

Todd W: I don’t know where you are, but around my state, homeschooling tends to be mostly fundamentalists, with a few hippies.

Now all of the anti-vax parents are going to Disneyland.

PGP, at the risk of sounding bitchy, I have to point out that there’s no evidence your school-days prepared you to deal with the real world at all.

they saw you AS BEING different

PGP, as others have said, please don’t generalize. It’s quite offensive. Do you know anybody who was homeschooled?
Like schooled kids (and the adults they become)- homeschoolers have a wide range of interests, abilities and goals. No system is perfect, but to condemn something without understanding it is shortsighted.

As one of those hippies whose homeschool curriculum was heavy on math and science, allow me to offer both stats and stories.

Stats first .(this site uses federal stats which seem less biased than those put out by the homeschooling community) See, they can read, they can cipher. Maybe they’re test taking skills aren’t quite up to snuff, but they have other ways of proving their abilities.

On the story side, one of my children finished his master’s in mechanical engineering from a top tier engineering school just after he turned 22. He now works for an internationally known bioengineering company. He also knits, bakes and brews his own beer. His sister is a nurse working for a rural health clinic and working towards a double NP/MPH degree. The younger ones are still in school, one will finish next year – age 16 with enough college credits to start as a second semester sophomore. He’s also a birder with several sightings in the official state record, winner of a 90 mile canoe race and a volunteer ski patroller. The youngest just built his first computer and regularly hacks things and sews his own anime costumes. Homeschooling allowed all of them the flexibility to travel, to think and to take responsibility for their choices from a young age.
I’m sorry, for whatever reasons, that you aren’t able to see beyond your own prejudices. I know you are young, I hope age will bring maturity.

Chemmomo:

The reference about Disneyland wasn’t clear. It basically means exactly what your saying:

You may have the luxury of viewing “Disneyland“ as an abstraction. Some of us don’t. Can you imagine being the parents who saved up vacation time and money to treat their children to meeting Mickey Mouse and wound up spending the rest of their kids’ winter break nursing measles? How about the parents of the two infants too young to receive the vaccine?

_I_ know Disneyland isn’t an abstraction. I know it’s a businessplace where hundreds of employees show up every morning, put on costumes, fire up ride machinery, man ticket booths, work adminstrative jobs in offices and what not to pay the rent and put food on the table. Disneyland markets itself as an abstraction, an escape into magic and fantasy. When JB says all of America is Disneyland, he means we’re living in fantasies we mistake for the real. The anti-vaxers in Orange County are taking some kid of ride on their own Magic Mountain of “measles is trivial, the autism scare is real, Obama can’t tell me what to do!” yadda yadda yadda.

You said it yourself, basically. What do you have to imagine about Mickey Mouse to think a 20-something in a Mickey Suit designates a VPD-free zone?

Sorry for the confusion.

When do we want it?
It doesn’t matter!
Time travel!
What do we want?

@ Orac #46
No, I’m not kidding. I’ve been reading here and on SBM for awhile if I’d seen any references to anything I considered remotely adequate to the question I wouldn’t have asked.

That said, I wasn’t asking YOU. Just, you know, asking in a reply addressed to Chris, not that I expected an answer from Chris either. As I have observed in numerous threads here, I utterly appreciate that this blog is you hobby, consider that a person’s hobby need not answer to any demands but their own pleasure, and you don’t owe me or any other commenter here a single damn thing.

I have no idea how you keep up your professional work, manage all your other responsibilities, and squeeze in time for blogging. That any of us have this place to express ourselves or engage each other is a gift. That said, it’s an open forum, and I’ll ask my questions and make my comments as I see fit — not expecting that obligates anyone else in any way, and certainly not the hobbyist host.

Should you care to offer some links at some point, that would be nice, but it’s strictly your choice, and if the whole thing annoys you, skip it. Get some rest (mercy knows I need to, and I’m not doing a fraction of what you do) and have fun with your hobby.

The hobby frame aside, I’m observant enough of sociological stuff to understand RI as a virtual social group, with different members of the community filling different roles. The prevailing social conventions include that the host does not respond to comments with arguments and citations, that being the role of the Minions. If I was ‘Greg Young’ the threads would be filled with responses to my comments supported by a host of citations. I’m not, and the threads aren’t. But it’s not your job, Orac, to fill in the gaps, at least not as I understand how things work here.

But if you are going to take the time to respond, your overall hobby enjoyment might be enhanced by filtering posts so you don’t come off as a condescending jerk to people who are trying to be on you side in getting vax rates up and preventing VPDs. IMHO. YMMV. Rest well.

DW: It wasn’t racism, I know that. I was just wired weirdly, and too smart, for a start, and small for my age, and then I compounded all my mistakes by making a friend of the opposite sex. Which is a big no-no in primary school. Also, I’m not as quick to pick up on social cues as other women are.

justthestats: Are you a guy? Because men don’t tend to do back-stabbing or pretend to be friends with people they dislike.

Brook: Homeschooling allowed all of them the flexibility to travel, to think and to take responsibility for their choices from a young age.

Well, that doesn’t sound too much different from my experience. I went to private school from third grade on. I spent two weeks out of junior year in the Galapagos, spent a lot of time on my own projects, and of course, had time to think and read. Although I’d happily have skipped music class. My main problem is that there’s not enough people like you and too many like Toto.

The U.S. Virgin Islands seems to be a scientific research epicenter…..

“A picture of Professor Hawking, purportedly taken during the conference, is featured on the ‘Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation’ blog in a posting topped with the dateline March 21, 2012.
But it is not yet clear when the conference – called ‘The Energy of Empty Space That Isn’t Zero’ – took place or how long it lasted.
The blog states that guests ‘could meet, discuss, relax on the beach, and take a trip to the nearby private island retreat of the science philanthropist Jeffrey Epstein, who funded the event.’”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901091/Paedophile-billionaire-Jeffrey-Epstein-hosted-Nobel-prizewinner-Stephen-Hawking-private-Caribbean-island-Prince-Andrew-claimed-court-proceedings-slept-underage-sex-slave.html#ixzz3OOfykxHW

Go away MjD:

http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/07/628-michael-j-dochniak-denise-h-dunn.html

The Disneyland outbreak is now at 19 cases in 4 states (California, Utah, Colorado, and Washington).

Washington state health officials confirmed late Friday that the Grays Harbor girl, who had not been vaccinated, was infected. She visited Disneylandduring the same time as the others with confirmed cases, officials said. She also was treated at the Summit Pacific Medical Center in Elma, Grays Harbor County, while contagious.

At the same time, state health officials say, an unvaccinated woman in her 20s contracted measles after visiting Disneyland, then traveled by plane from Orange County to Seattle. She flew into Seattle-Tacoma International Airport on Dec. 29 and flew out last Saturday.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2025426551_measlesdisneylandxml.html

Jeffrey “conned” Harvard science elite……without a bachelor’s degree!

Understatement of the year, LOL! :
“Epstein’s beneficiaries say they are particularly appreciative of the no-strings-attached approach Epstein takes with his donations.

“He is one of the most pleasant philanthropists,” Nowak says. “Unlike many people who support science, he supports science without any conditions. There are not any disadvantages to associating with him.”
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/6/5/people-in-the-news-jeffrey-e/
People in the News: Jeffrey E. Epstein
By JAQUELYN M. SCHARNICK, CRIMSON STAFF WRITER June 5, 2003

Didn’t the Harvard science elite read Pinocchio, or at least watch the Disney version? They are without excuse.

Is Dr. Gordon saying he will refuse to follow the standard of care and vaccinate children younger than 3 even if the parents ask?

For what it’s worth, there is an interesting article in the January/February MIT Technology Review titled “Solving the Autism Puzzle”. This article discusses the role of various genetic mutations linked to autism sprectrum disorders.

http://www.technologyreview.com/photoessay/533501/solving-the-autism-puzzle/

@Elilady
“Kathleen Harriman, chief of vaccine preventable diseases for the state, said that “it’s our SPECULATION that there was an [infected] international visitor at one of the parks, and that person or persons was able to infect a lot of people.’ ”

Well, Toto can “speculate” just as well.
I say the “one” vaccinated kid did it! Vaccine induced measles is more severe. Here is some scientific evidence to back this up:

“The first “live measles vaccine” caused one-third of the recipients to develop a high fever and half of the recipients to develop a rash.[more] There can be no stronger exposure to measles than a direct injection of decaying material, toxic chemicals and “live virus.” The proof that vaccine induced measles is more severe than natural measles is shown by the higher percentage of children suffering from vaccine injury than occurred as side effects of natural measles. Thus the number of measles cases following direct injection of vaccine ingredients can easily be higher than would occur following multiple natural measles exposures. The number (50%) of vaccine recipients with rash following the first “live virus” vaccine suggests that natural immunity to measles must have been a minimum of 50% of the children at that time and given the force of disease when toxic ingredients are directly injected, natural immunity was likely to have been considerably higher than only 50%. The 200,000 to 600,000 reported cases of measles each year may be reasonably accurate in the pre-vaccine era as simply cases and require no further adjustment for accuracy. Denying that measles incidence declined prior to vaccine introduction is thus contrary to data obtained from the first “live virus” experiments and ignores the fact that reported cases (or “adjusted” reported cases) remained nearly the same in spite of increasing childhood population and is not sustainable due to uncertainties in the reporting system which we discuss below.
Conclusion: Measles incidence in the pre-vaccine era had declined from the pre-sanitation era by at least 50% (as a percentage of children over age one) and as much as 90% before measles vaccination began.”
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/measles-intro.htm

“How did less than 68% of children develop “immunity” if 100% of the children had the measles?

It is not only death rates that decline with advancing sanitation and nutrition but also the incidence of disease. An example of natural immunity to measles can be seen in a medical article that revealed that the unvaccinated Amish in Lebanon County, PA had no measles cases from 1970 though December 1987. This group was large and yet had no cases for 17 years while mainstream medicine was crediting low measles rates to vaccination. Measles among the Amish: A comparative Study of Measles Severity in Primary and Secondary Cases in Households Published by The Journal of Infectious Diseases 1991:163:12-16, page 12.
Another source, Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines: Evidence Bearing on Causality http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2138&page=118, OCR for page 119:

Development of a live attenuated measles vaccine
… The initial vaccine was derived from the Edmonston strain, which was attenuated by serial passage in various tissue cultures and ultimately grown in chicken embryo cells. The resulting variant was named the Edmonston B strain. It was quite immunogenic, but it was not free of side effects. One-third of the recipients developed high fever, and half of the recipients had a rash. Nevertheless, none of the recipients acted ill.
If a “live virus” plus toxic vaccine ingredients directly injected into a child can cause only 50% of the children to become ill, then natural immunity must have been at a minimum of 50% and could easily have been higher because there is no stronger “exposure” to a disease’s cause than direct injection of toxic compounds. We will prove later in this web page that vaccine caused cases are severe not “mild”.

As we mentioned earlier, reporting systems can under-report as well as over-report. In the 1920’s approximately 19 percent of cases were reported. By the time the measles vaccine was introduced, it is possible that “reports” were adjusted before relaying to the CDC and thus could have possibly represented an over reporting of the true number of cases. This problem is illustrated by Dispelling Vaccination Myths by Alan Phillips, part 3,
“In 1974, the CDC determined that there were 36 cases of measles in Georgia, while the Georgia State Surveillance System reported 660 cases.”
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/measles-intro.htm#edmonston

According to an abstract from a paper co-authored by “age of autism (1986-2000)” Dr. Orenstein:

“An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures…”
Am J Public Health. 1987 April; 77(4): 434–438.
PMCID: PMC1646939
“Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.”
B M Nkowane, S W Bart, W A Orenstein, and M Baltier
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/

Thanks for that background, Lilady.

Dr. Gordon said on twitter that he is reluctant to give MMR before 3 but will give it if the parent want. His reluctance seems based on the DeStefano 2004 study, which found that age of MMR is not related to rates of autism. I think he may have mistaken its meaning.

At least schoolchildren get to socialize

PgP, I had to endure two years of ‘kindergarden’ because they felt I had not developed social skills. Never mind learning how to count to 100 day one, that was the routine every single day; Count to 100, do the hokey pokey, drink some coolaid, learn some bible stories about leprosy, and being told that I had better enjoy my time there because, when I got out, I was going to Viet Nam to be killed.

Socializing. I just always seem to get a ‘U’ in that:
Now that I was the year older and my ‘peers’ that little bit younger and a whole lot dumber, My entire *schooling* experience has been that of beaten into submission by abject stupid, drugged into conformity, stigmatised my whole life for pointing out falsehoods and the derpitude of conformance — Teachers and parents not excepted but the greatest of offenders.

I do feel robbed by others’ imposition of *social* and I am bitter now for sure.

@101

The paper that you cited demonstrates that

(1) the attack rate among unvaccinated students was about 20 times that among vaccinated students, so vaccines worked pretty well–as expected

(2) since the number of vaccinated students who were actually infected is lower than the number of students who would have been expected to be susceptible due to just primary vaccine failure, herd immunity due to the high vaccine uptake seems to have substantially limited the spread of the disease–as expected

Brian, I would recommend that you ignore the troll’s link to a 28 year old (1987) paper. The children received their one vaccine before their first birthday, which is now known to yield lower immunity levels. Children can receive a MMR vaccine if they have been exposed to a measles case or if they are traveling to a measles-endemic area of the world. That early dose of MMR “doesn’t count” toward the primary 2-dose series to be administered at 12-15 months of age and at 4-6 years old.

This outbreak occurred years before the first MMR shot was recommended to be given between 12-15 months of age and before the recommendation for the implementation of a second MMR vaccine to be given at age 4-6 years:

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00053391.htm

Jeff’ll Fix It!…..V.I. youth STEM education.

“Harvard Mogul, Jeffrey Epstein, Boosts Science Education In the US Virgin Islands
Renowned science and Harvard investor funds a huge STEM Science Fair in the US Virgin Islands.

PR Newswire
NEW YORK, Sept. 11, 2014 /PRNewswire/ — The largest science fair in the US Virgin Islands received a huge boost from the Southern Trust Company, Inc. which is owned by renowned science and Harvard investor and local resident, Jeffrey Epstein. The fair, called the St. Thomas-St. John STEM Fair, was organized by the Virgin Islands Department of Education and brought together hundreds of grade school students from across the islands, to showcase their science work for awards at the University of the Virgin Islands Sports and Fitness Center….and the Southern Trust Company under the umbrella of the Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation, which supports youth organizations throughout the USVI, played a key role in sponsoring the event. Specifically, the foundation supplied more than a hundred Microsoft Surface 2 computers, Touch keyboards and Nylon Sleeves for Microsoft Surface. The foundation also provided funds to host the STEM Fair, and travel and accommodations funds for the winners and chaperones to attend the STEM summer camps.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/prnewswire/press_releases/New_York/2014/09/11/LA09930

Why is the Department of Education taking gifts and money from a known REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER? Where will these “summer camps” be held? Do the winners’ parents know of Mr. Epstein’s past conviction?
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

lilady isn’t…..

She deliberately mischaracterized the Orenstein report. Here are the facts as recorded in the report:

“Twenty-four of the 27 cases occurred in students attending the senior high school (enrollment 2,098, attack rate 1.1 per cent). Of the remaining three cases, two were siblings of the source case (one elementary school attendee and the other a junior high school attendee). The third patient, who also attended the junior high school,had onset of illness while on spring break in Florida. No other cases were reported from the schools these three cases attended or from any other schools in the city.
Thirteen of the cases were male, and 14 female. Except for the non-senior high school cases,all the cases were aged 14 to18 years of age.The immunization status for all the cases in the outbreak and the pattern of transmission are shown in Figure1.Overall, eight cases (30percent) were preventable, THREE WITH NO HISTORY OF VACCINATION and FIVE who had been vaccinated AT LESS THAN 12 months of age. THE REMAINING 19 cases were non-preventable and had all received AT LEAST one dose of vaccine AT 12 MONTHS OF AGE OR OLDER….
….The outbreak was introduced into the senior high school by a female 16 year-old 11th grade student who rode on the same school bus as the junior high sibling of the source case.This ADEQUATELY IMMUNIZED (received vaccine at 12 mos. or later) patient transmitted disease to at least five other students in the senior high school.” p.435
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/pdf/amjph00255-0032.pdf

My summary:
The measles outbreak occurred in March of 1984. The report was published in 1987.
Dr. Orenstein and the CDC rolled out the new vaccine schedule in 1986. MMR’s were recommended after 12 months.
Only 3 out of the 27 cases had no record of immunization. (7.1% of unvaccinated students got the measles)
Five cases received a measles vaccine BEFORE 12 months of age. 19 cases had records of ADEQUATE immunization, receiving their shots ON or AFTER 12 months of age. Of these 19 cases, it was not specified how many received more than one shot, but all 19 received “at least” one shot.
The high school cases were initially propagated by a student with ADEQUATE IMMUNIZATION.
“This outbreak of measles occurred in a highly vaccinated population and 70 per cent of the cases were vaccine failures.” “Vaccine failures in this setting also played some role in the spread of disease.” p. 437

The OUTRAGE is that even though vaccines were part of the measles transmission, other students, who did not have the measles, yet refused to be vaccinated, were forced to stay out of school until May 10, 1984, 21 days after the LAST case was reported.

I hope this clears up the confusion brought on by “nolady”.

The more I read this stuff, the more I think that if Americans don’t like science, vaccines or public education, maybe Americans shouldn’t have them. Stuff is valued more when it’s scarce or non-existent.

Politcalguineapig @83 “My main problem is that there’s not enough people like you and too many like Toto.”

This is exactly why some of us keep recommending to you that you step outside of your boxes and experience more of the real world.

As for comment your #115 – it’s about as useful as one of Toto’s. And more repugnant.

I remember as a child reading arguments against women’s liberation and against equal rights for women. They always ran along the lines that women really want to stay home and take care of husbands and babies, so the law should force them to do so. 

I thought this argument ridiculous. If women actually want to stay home and take care of husbands and babies, then it is quite unnecessary to have laws to force them to do so. We do not have laws forcing people to est their favorite foods.

Since I was, even as a child, a classical liberal, I also thought that if even one woman in all the country wanted to do something else, then it was manifestly unjust for the law to force her to do what other women wanted to do. 

But politicalguineapig has shown me the error of my ways. If most or even some of the people like you want to do something, then it is just and right and proper for the law to force you to do that same thing.

Thank you politicalguineapig! The scales have fallen from my eyes!

I just love this clip with Hilleman telling the “Jeryl Lynn” story.
He sounds like such a compassionate dad! Who else would think of turning a buck from his daughter’s mumps strain?
What is fascinating is that Hilleman, as an adult, had never had the mumps (this is before he created the vaccine). He has obviously been directly exposed to the virus by his daughter. He even swabbed it from her throat! But what did this savvy scientist do, so he could still go on his trip the next day? Why he got an injection of GAMMA GLOBULIN, and never got the mumps!
Later, he injected the UNLICENSED vaccine into his NOT QUITE one year old daughter. I don’t know if she ever got the mumps. He didn’t say. I wonder if her injection had mercury in it. Did she also have separate injections of measles and rubella vaccines at the same time? Nice anecdote. NOT SCIENTIFIC!
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/mumps-jeryl-lynn-story

https://books.google.com/books?id=q5MrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=gamma+globulin++mumps&source=bl&ots=b6jgJObMG0&sig=MylAtLlxg8BzwfHi8O
pKv1gSmqI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tTmzVMiAKYHqgwTntILADg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=gamma%20globulin%20%20mumps&f=false

Death by coincidence…..
“5 Seniors Die after Flu Shot at Assisted Care Center in Georgia”
http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2014/11/18/5-seniors-die-after-flu-shot-at-assisted-care-center-in-georgia/

I have family in the Dacula area. I plan to look into this personally.

Toto,

Well, Toto can “speculate” just as well.
I say the “one” vaccinated kid did it! Vaccine induced measles is more severe. Here is some scientific evidence to back this up:

Why are you posting information about the first live measles vaccine that hasn’t been in use for 40 years? What relevance has this to a recent measles outbreak?

There can be no stronger exposure to measles than a direct injection of decaying material, toxic chemicals and “live virus.”

Since measles infection leads to each infected cell producing hundreds of thousands of viruses, leading to viremia of millions of viruses per mL of blood, that clearly isn’t true. What “decaying material”? That would require bacterial contamination of measles vaccines, which I have never heard of. The “toxic chemicals” are present in tiny amounts, as has been discussed here a hundred times before, and “live virus” is what you get with a wild viral infection, except more virulent and more likely to kill or cause serious illness.

The proof that vaccine induced measles is more severe than natural measles is shown by the higher percentage of children suffering from vaccine injury than occurred as side effects of natural measles.

That wasn’t true even of early measles vaccines, and certainly isn’t true of the current MMR. There were 30,000 cases of measles in Europe in 2011 with 8 deaths, 27 cases of measles encephalitis, and 1,482 cases of pneumonia. If the 10 million doses of MMR distributed every year in the US led to this incidence of adverse events, we would see 2,600 deaths, 9,000 cases of encephalitis and 494,000 cases of pneumonia, and up to 800,000 hospitalizations. We don’t, obviously. I think we would notice.

The number (50%) of vaccine recipients with rash following the first “live virus” vaccine suggests that natural immunity to measles must have been a minimum of 50% of the children at that time and given the force of disease when toxic ingredients are directly injected, natural immunity was likely to have been considerably higher than only 50%.

What a very ignorant statement. Why do they think that the development of a rash is evidence of natural immunity? It’s the defining symptom of a measles infection, not a sign of immunity, otherwise everyone immune to measles would develop a rash when exposed to it, wouldn’t they? This doesn’t even make sense according to its own erroneous premises. Whoever wrote this is clueless.

Conclusion: Measles incidence in the pre-vaccine era had declined from the pre-sanitation era by at least 50% (as a percentage of children over age one) and as much as 90% before measles vaccination began.”

Absolute BS. Sanitation has no effect at all on measles incidence, which was not in decline before the vaccine was introduced. Almost everyone got measles in the pre-vaccine era. Those children that developed a rash after vaccination would doubtless have developed full-blown measles had they been exposed to the wild virus instead.

“How did less than 68% of children develop “immunity” if 100% of the children had the measles?

I’m amazed that anyone has to ask this. New children are constantly being born, and when the percentage of children who had never had measles increased to over 32% the population was ripe for an outbreak as soon as the virus was introduced. Those that survived were mostly immune, and herd immunity prevented further outbreaks until enough children had been born to reduce immunity levels enough to allow another outbreak, and so the cycle continued. That’s why outbreaks were periodic, every two years on average.

It is not only death rates that decline with advancing sanitation and nutrition but also the incidence of disease.

In diseases spread through poor sanitation, yes, but measles is spread through droplets and aerosols from coughing and sneezing, and the best sewerage systems in the world won’t stop that.

An example of natural immunity to measles can be seen in a medical article that revealed that the unvaccinated Amish in Lebanon County, PA had no measles cases from 1970 though December 1987. This group was large and yet had no cases for 17 years while mainstream medicine was crediting low measles rates to vaccination.

If measles was never introduced to that Amish population, because the surrounding population was highly vaccinated, even if none of them were immune they wouldn’t get measles, would they? So what happened, according to the study cited when the virus was introduced to that supposedly ‘naturally immune’ Amish population?

Of 130 measles cases reported between April and June 1988, 119 (92%) constituted a study of disease severity.

So much for their “natural immunity to measles”.

The resulting variant was named the Edmonston B strain. It was quite immunogenic, but it was not free of side effects. One-third of the recipients developed high fever, and half of the recipients had a rash. Nevertheless, none of the recipients acted ill.

The Edmonston B strain vaccine was withdrawn in 1975 because of these side effects. The vaccine in current use has far fewer adverse events associated with it.

We will prove later in this web page that vaccine caused cases are severe not “mild”.

Good luck with that.

As we mentioned earlier, reporting systems can under-report as well as over-report. In the 1920’s approximately 19 percent of cases were reported. By the time the measles vaccine was introduced, it is possible that “reports” were adjusted before relaying to the CDC and thus could have possibly represented an over reporting of the true number of cases.

I find this attempt to explain away the greater than 99% reduction in the incidence of measles since the vaccine was introduced hilarious. How desperate and closed-minded do you have to be to go through these bizarre mental contortions?

“In 1974, the CDC determined that there were 36 cases of measles in Georgia, while the Georgia State Surveillance System reported 660 cases.”

Active surveillance picks up more cases than active surveillance, not surprisingly. Until last year fewer than 200 cases were reported most years in the entire US despite active surveillance. The fact that more than 600 cases were reported last year is due to falling vaccine uptake, partly thanks to people like you spreading this sort of misinformation.

Toto, why do you post this absolute nonsense? Surely you can see it isn’t true, so why do you do it? Seriously, I’m interested.

I have family in the Dacula area. I plan to look into this personally.

I guess that takes care of that, then.

@gayest
“We’ll eagerly wait for your published results.”
I plan to drive over to the CDC and ask Dr. Thompson myself.
I certainly won’t post the results for free on this blog.

@JGC
That is merely the business’ statement through their lawyers. It has yet to be proven in a court of law.

“All residents of Hope Assisted Living & Memorial Care did not receive flu shots on November 7, 2015. The only residents receiving the flu shots were done with the consent of the resident and his or her family.”
How can someone with alzheimer’s give their consent? Does the facility have a blanket requirement that all residents must have flu shots unless they have a written notification from their doctor? Did residents receive flu shots on November 6th or 8th?

“None of the residents receiving shots developed fevers or died.”
They are still referring only to the date “November 7, 2015”. Did any develop fevers and die after that date? What was the cause of death listed on the death certificate?

“The only residents at Hope Assisted Living & Memorial Care who died during the period from November 7, 2014 to November 17, 2014, were hospice patients who did not receive flu shots.”
This remains to be proven in a court of law. Alleged employees who contacted the news site give a contradicting account.

“As you can read in the original story below, Hope did originally issue a public reply via their Facebook Page, which we published immediately. Multiple attempts to ask for more clarification regarding their statement via their Facebook Page were deleted, and they eventually took down their Facebook Page. We now have their full statement, as quoted above.

Health Impact News has also been contacted on behalf of alleged family members who died at Hope Assisted Living & Memory Care during the period in question. One alleged family member who contacted us via email, stated that a family member did receive the flu shot on the date reported, and died shortly thereafter. However, the family does not wish to take their story public, stating:

‘We fear being sued for defamation and libel. Several prominent Atlanta attorneys and doctors have their loved ones at the community we certainly don’t have the means or ability to defend ourselves against them.’

Health Impact News does not have the ability nor the legal authority to investigate claims made by anyone, whether employees, family members, or the assisted living center itself. We are simply reporting what we have been told, and have reported everyone’s side of the story.”

– See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/6-seniors-die-after-flu-shot-at-assisted-care-center-in-georgia/#sthash.U0pRS3jI.dpuf

Here’s another angle. It is well documented that one of the side affects of the vaccine, is to get the flu. It is plausible that those who did receive flu shots could have transmitted the flu virus to the “unvaccinated” patients in hospice care. Their health is already greatly compromised, and this exposure might have led to their death.

@Toto

This is probably pointless, but I thought I’d address one of the questions you asked:

How can someone with alzheimer’s give their consent?

First off, Alzheimer’s patients do have lucid moments where they are entirely aware of what is going on around them and are capable of making decisions for themselves. Second, you missed this part from the bit your quoted (emphasis added):

with the consent of the resident and his or her family

It’s not only the resident giving consent, but the resident’s family, as well.

Julian: I don’t mean that these things should go away forever. Just for a generation and only in certain areas. For instance, are Louisiana, Texas and everywhere in Pennsylvania that isn’t Pittsburgh going to notice if no one teaches their kids science? Is Marin, California going to care that vaccines aren’t available in the area anymore? Are the red states going to notice if the HCA doesn’t apply anymore and the schools don’t get funded? And it’s not ‘collective punishment,’ it’s austerity.

dingo199,

Typo, I presume. You surely meant “Active surveillance picks up more cases than passive reporting”.

You’re quite right, it’s a typo. I know I’m wasting my time with Toto but I do wonder why anyone posts such obvious nonsense. Even a few seconds thought reveals how clueless it is. If s/he had any credibility left, posting this garbage would have eliminated it at a stroke. I sometimes suspect Toto is an agent provocateur.

That is merely the business’ statement through their lawyers. It has yet to be proven in a court of law.

What does proof in a court of law have to do with anything, toto?

How can someone with alzheimer’s give their consent?

I haven’t seen any evidence that anyone with Alzheimer’s was vaccinated at the center, but if that were the case i would expect they gave consent the same way they give consent for any other medical intervention, via health care proxy or legal guardianship.

Alleged employees who contacted the news site give a contradicting account.

Citations needed. I haven’t seen any evidence this occurred. Certainly the Libertybeacon article you linked to makes no such claim: it only refers nonspecificly to “our sources” when attributing an entirely different claim to those sources(that seeing 5 deaths in a week is unusual).

It is well documented that one of the side affects of the vaccine, is to get the flu.

Citation needed: where is it docuented that influenza infection is a side effect of vaccination against influenza?

@JGC
“* Effective date: November 10, 2008. The Reportable Events Table (RET) reflects what is reportable by law (42 USC 300aa-25) to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) INCLUDING conditions found in the manufacturers PACKAGE INSERT. In addition, healthcare professionals are ENCOURAGED to report ANY clinically significant or unexpected events (even if you are NOT CERTAIN the vaccine caused the event) for ANY vaccine, whether OR NOT it is listed on the RET. Manufacturers are also required by regulation (21CFR 600.80) to report to the VAERS program all adverse events made known to them for any vaccine.”
http://vaers.hhs.gov/resources/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_Following_Vaccination.pdf

It seems that the healthcare workers were trying to follow CDC VAERS protocol.

According to their current literature, “Services”, Hope Center Memory Care (Dacula campus) it states, “Support services available to residents and their families through our relationships with hospice and home health.”
This seems to be an add-on service. This place is not a devoted hospice.
The literature states:
“Hope Center for Memory Care is a community dedicated and designed to care for residents with Alzheimer’s and other Dementias.”
Residents can live there (private suites), but they also provide “options for Adult Day Programming or Overnight stays.” They have accommodations for around 62 full-time residents. The Dacula location’s newsletter dated “January 2015” has a “With Sympathy” column that lists four individuals who recently passed away, although it does not give specific dates nor cause of death.

And it’s not ‘collective punishment,’ it’s austerity.

Well, of course. And when politicalguineapig’s intellectual forebears decided that black schools should have less funding than white schools, that was just austerity too.

Hey, Toto why don’t you go and tell these families their kids were better off with the diseases.

@politicalguineapig, I don’t believe you’re that thick, but I’ll spell it out for you.

Your intellectual forebears, the people who instituted Jim Crow laws, despised blacks and wanted to oppress and degrade them just because blacks were different from them.

You, following in the footsteps of your intellectual forebears who instituted Jim Crow laws, want to oppress and degrade Texans, Louisianans, and others just because they’re different from you.

Your intellectual forebears who instituted Jim Crow had excuses like “blacks are too stupid to benefit from good education so they shouldn’t have it.”

You, following in the footsteps of your intellectual forebears who instituted Jim Crow laws, say that Texans, Louisianans, and others are too ignorant and stupid to benefit from science education so they should be forcibly prevented from obtaining a science education.

This is not a question of race. This is a question of naked bigotry in which you appear to revel. Your attitude is vile.

Do you understand this now?

Politicalguineapig:

You have called for denying all the residents of Mississippi and Louisiana science education and vaccines.

It may have escaped your notice, but approximately 37% of the people of Mississippi are African American: that’s more than a million Black Americans who you are condemning to ignorance and disease because of the presumed failings of their white neighbors. And another 1.4 million in Louisiana.

White northerners are distressingly prone to criticize the South for racism, and then ignore the fact that racism affects actual Black people who live in the South.

*deep breath* I don’t have the energy to explain the other flaws in those very questionable policy proposals to someone who I suspect is trolling. SIWOTI, but I have a dinner to cook.

Real science versus bushmeat speculation:
The true origin of HIV in humans:
http://www.aidsorigins.com/more-supportive-opvaids-bushmeat-hypothesis-revised-response-recent-faria-paper-science

http://www.aidsorigins.com/view-origins-aids-documentary

Toto, is there a reason you’re posting links to youtube videos and the website of an HIV conspiracy theorist whose speculation has already been proven false (see PMID:15103367) instead of offering anything resembling actual evidence in support of your claims? That is, some reason other than the fact you can’t find any actual evidence in support of your claims…

Thing is, science education and vaccines would be available in other areas. So all people would have to do to take advantage of them would be to move. Oddly, Southern states, except for Texas, are mostly okay with vaccines. So Mississippi wouldn’t lose those. It’d only be for a short period of time, anyway.

@PGP:

It’s obviously really easy for poor people to pick up and move, what with all that money they have saved up, that house they can certainly sell for more money, and the certainty that they can get a job in a different part of the country.

Oh, wait.

Politicalguineapig,
Could you please explain how any rational and reasonable human being can justify withholding education from any group of people based on some arbitrary guideline?

If you cannot come up with a reasonable explanation, please just stop trolling.

The statements you have posted on this thread (e.g., #115, 133, 144, 153; I may have missed some) are way beyond offensive.

OOPS!

Here’s the link to this source posted at #156:
VACCINES CAN CAUSE POLIO.
“What Is VACCINE-Derived Poliovirus?
A vaccine-derived poliovirus is a strain of poliovirus, initially contained in the LIVE ORAL POLIO VACCINE, that has changed over time; it behaves more like a WILD or naturally occurring virus. This means that it can be more easily spread to others who are unvaccinated against polio and who come in contact with the stool or oral secretions, such as saliva, of an infected person. These viruses may cause illness, including PARALYTIC POLIOMYELITIS.

Occurrence of Vaccine-Derived Poliovirus
In 2005, a vaccine-derived poliovirus was found in the stool of an unvaccinated child in the state of Minnesota. The child most likely caught the virus through contact in the community with someone WHO RECEIVED LIVE ORAL VACCINE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.

Because oral poliovirus vaccine has not been used in the United States since 2000, it is likely that ANY vaccine-derived poliovirus seen in the United States would have come from a person who received ORAL poliovirus vaccine in ANOTHER COUNTRY. Oral poliovirus vaccine is used in many countries of the world, including Central and South America, Africa, and Asia.”
http://polio.emedtv.com/poliovirus/vaccine-derived-poliovirus.html

Another interesting coincidence…..
“January 08, 2015 03:00 ET

Senior Solutions Management Group Employee Named a Finalist for 2014 Healthcare Excellence Awards
Community Relations Director for Hope Center for Memory Care at Dacula, Georgia, Honored for Her Dedication to Senior Care
ATLANTA, GA–(Marketwired – January 08, 2015) – Senior Solutions Management Group (SSMG), a leading provider of superior-quality senior care across the Southeast, announced that Rachel Spain, community relations director for Hope Center for Memory Care at Dacula, Georgia, was named a finalist for the 2014 Healthcare Excellence Awards sponsored by the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce.
The Healthcare Excellence Awards recognizes and honors the efforts and innovation of individuals and organizations making a significant impact on the quality of healthcare in Gwinnett County. Spain was selected as a finalist in the Healthcare Professional category and was honored at a ceremony in December 2014.”
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/senior-solutions-management-group-employee-named-finalist-2014-healthcare-excellence-1981258.htm

From Toto:

(HOW DOES THAT WORK? THE ABOVE DOCUMENT SAYS THE OPPOSITE!)

No it doesn’t.

But do go on.

Politicalguineapig @162
I’m going to repeat my question, as you did not understand it. Defend your desire to withhold education from any group of people based on an arbitrary guideline.

It’s a general question, not subject to your fantasies about folks you’ve never met in southern states or northern California.

Or just stop trolling.

PGP, I’m amazed that someone who purports to be as smart and ethically advanced as you would propose such bigotry — and that precisely is what you’re doing, whether concerning the homeschooled or Texans. Or homeschooled Texans. People, just aren’t that simply categorized, and the demographics you’re responding to are only that: a product of statistical analysis which may or may not apply to a member of a given group.

JGC
“Toto, is there a reason you’re posting links to youtube videos and the website of an HIV conspiracy theorist whose speculation has already been proven false (see PMID:15103367) instead of offering anything resembling actual evidence in support of your claims? That is, some reason other than the fact you can’t find any actual evidence in support of your claims…”

You are right. It is even WORSE than proposed in THE RIVER.
The rest of the puzzle….with govt. documents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrxEGIxVyw

Your CDC dollars at work:
The Sinners for Disease Control perform “Pandemic Blues”
(No, I did not make this up)

“It was named Second place winner in the
2007 American Public Health Assocation (APHA) “Get Ready” songwriting contest (to prepare the public for Pandemic Flu).”
http://www.cfar.emory.edu/vdc/song.php
http://www.cfar.emory.edu/vdc/song.php

Don’t forget about the 2009 “Pandemic Blues” :
“AS03 Adjuvanted AH1N1 Vaccine Associated with an Abrupt Increase in the Incidence of Childhood Narcolepsy in Finland”
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0033536

“Swine flu vaccine can trigger narcolepsy, UK government concedes”
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/19/swine-flu-vaccine-narcolepsy-uk

@PGP
Would you be surprised to learn that I once lived in Marin County? Or that I met a lot of good people there? Or that despite its reputation as the home of the super-rich, there are a lot of people there that are just barely making ends meet in tiny one-room apartments that would probably be against zoning laws pretty much anywhere in the country outside of the Bay Area.

“There’s concern that the virus circulating in ISRAEL may spill out of the country, says EMORY University’s Dr. Walt Orenstein, who has worked extensively on POLIO. ( He originally worked for the CDC and oversaw the 1986 roll out of the now controversial U.S. infant vaccine schedule) “There’s enough virus circulating [in Israel] that it could get out of that area in to other countries,” Orenstein says.

Note that the parenthetical bullsh1t about a a “now-controversial vaccine schedule” is not part of the original passage which Toto purports to be citing, and was presumably inserted out of a principled opposition to honesty.

Bold html fail!

@JGC

I believe that PGP’s favorite pet fallacy is the hasty generalization fallacy.

JGC et al,
Here’s the school summary report for the state of California 2014-2015 on kindergartners:
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immunize/Documents/2014-15%20CA%20Kindergarten%20Immunization%20Assessment.pdf

If you scroll down to p10 of 17, one finds that 84% of Marin County kindergarten students (with 100% of schools reporting, as noted in a table on an earlier page) have all required immunizations.

This information is publicly available, and easy to find on the California Department of Public Health website. Unless of course you don’t want to look because it contradicts your own prejudices.

#175
“Note that the parenthetical bullsh1t about a a “now-controversial vaccine schedule” is not part of the original passage which Toto purports to be citing, and was presumably inserted out of a principled opposition to honesty.”

Your presumption was wrong. I took a short-cut and just used parentheses because it seemed obvious that it was my comment. Technically, you are correct and I apologize for your confusion. However, this is why I always post a link to my source. Of course, my comment is correct. It is controversial. Otherwise this blog would not exist, and you would be out of a job as Big Pharma propagandist, keeping the controversy at bay.

It is remarkable that you had no comment regarding the explosive content in my post.

Another “controversial issue”:
Organic food- bad; KFC chicken and alcoholic beverage- good….”for the cure”.
http://www.naturalnews.com/048300_Susan_G_Komen_fried_chicken_organic_food.html

Give Komen the pink slip…….

“There’s concern that the virus circulating in ISRAEL may spill out of the country, says EMORY University’s Dr. Walt Orenstein, who has worked extensively on POLIO.

So, that would be none?

Not that this isn’t idiotic in other ways, such as “spilling out” when… wait, you don’t know what “circulating” meant there, do you?

Oh, and Tutu? Don’t bother. I only see people’s handing back of your specimens.

Cynical and angry right out of the gate. This article is trash. The vaccine court proved they cause autism and the CDC has been busted red handed lying about studies. It would be a disaster if people stopped vaccinating but that does not change the cold hard facts that they have caused autism in some children. Children who get autism from having the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age should be swiftly compensated by the vaccine court that was set up to protect BIG PHARMA from liability by instead using taxpayers dollars to payout. The CDC lies by people like Julie Gerberding who is now a multi-million earner at Merck Pharmaceuticals has now put us 10 years behind on research.

Jeff: “The vaccine court proved they cause autism and the CDC has been busted red handed lying about studies”

Science is not determined by lawyers.

“Children who get autism from having the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age should be swiftly compensated by the vaccine court that was set up to protect BIG PHARMA from liability by instead using taxpayers dollars to payout.”

There is not evidence that the MMR causes autism. Because if it did we would have seen it happening in the 1970s and 1980s after the vaccine was introduced in 1971 in the USA. If you have the documentation dated before 1990 that autism increased due to the MMR use in the USA, then please present it.