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CNBC publishes an antivaccine press release from the Weston A. Price Foundation and Leslie Manookian

One of the things I’ve noticed over the last decade of covering pseudoscience and quackery from a skeptical point of view is that no pseudoscientific trope ever really dies. This is particularly true of antivaccine tropes. No matter how many times this piece or that of antivaccine misinformation is slapped down, sooner or later it always resurfaces. Indeed, I remember one article that I’ve seen resurface on several occasions that inevitably bears a title that is some variation of a statement that a “new study vindicates Andrew Wakefield.” Every time that article pops up, various antivaccine advocates will spread it all over Facebook and other social media. The article then disappears, only to reappear months—or even years—later. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Another thing that I’ve noticed over the years is a particularly sneaky tactic of antivaccinationists, and that’s to get a press release or other bit of propaganda published in such a way that it looks as though it’s a legitimate news story. Just this week, it’s happened again. It’s a story that fulfills all the criteria of such a technique: (1) it looks like a real news story if you don’t look at it that closely (which most readers don’t) and (2) it spreads antivaccine nonsense. In this case, it’s a press release from the Weston A. Price Foundation that popped up on CNBC’s Globe Newswire entitled Public Health Officials Know: Recently Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease that’s led people to question Why Is CNBC Posting Anti-Vaccination Propaganda? It appears on a web page in such a way that it looks like a legitimate story. A reader has to scroll all the way down to the very end of the story, with the contacts buried even beyond all the references:

CONTACT: Kim Hartke, 703-860-2711703-860-2711, [email protected] Leslie Manookian, 208-721-2135 208-721-2135, [email protected]

Leslie Manookian? We’ve met her before. She’s the producer of an antivaccine propaganda movie (The Greater Good) released a three years ago that was so chock full of egregious antivaccine misinformation that it got an even more detailed than usual patented Orac deconstruction. It deserved it, too, in a big way. She was also the moderator of a debate between Julian Whitaker, who argued the antivaccine side, and Steve Novella, who argued (and won) the pro-science side. In any case, the CNBC press release is virtually identical to this press release from a month ago posted on the Weston A. Price website entitled, Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Should the Recently Vaccinated be Quarantined to Prevent Outbreaks?

Just see how it starts out:

Physicians and public health officials know that recently vaccinated individuals can spread disease and that contact with the immunocompromised can be especially dangerous. For example, the Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit.”

A statement on the website of St. Jude’s Hospital warns parents not to allow people to visit children undergoing cancer treatment if they have received oral polio or smallpox vaccines within four weeks, have received the nasal flu vaccine within one week, or have rashes after receiving the chickenpox vaccine or MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.

“The public health community is blaming unvaccinated children for the outbreak of measles at Disneyland, but the illnesses could just as easily have occurred due to contact with a recently vaccinated individual,” says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. The Foundation promotes a healthy diet, non-toxic lifestyle and freedom of medical choice for parents and their children. “Evidence indicates that recently vaccinated individuals should be quarantined in order to protect the public.”

Yes, The Weston A. Price Foundation and Leslie Manookian resurrected this hoary old corpse of an antivaccine myth, cleaned the dust off of it, propped it up like a mannequin, and somehow snookered CNBC into publishing it as a press release. For those not familiar with the Weston A. Price Foundation, just peruse its website. Take a look at its take on health topics: homeopathy, liver detoxification, anti-fluoridation propaganda, smart meter fear mongering, and exaggerated fear mongering (is there any other kind?) about root canals, among other serious woo.

It’s very clear that the claim that children shed virus and are thus potential vectors for infection is important to antivaccinationists because it allows them to portray others as equally, if not more, the cause of outbreaks than their children, but is there anything to it? Regular readers can probably guess the answer to that question. The answer, of course, is that there’s far less to the issue of virus shedding than meets the eye. For one thing, virus shedding can only occur with live virus vaccines, such as the rotovirus vaccine, oral polio virus vaccines (which are not really used in the US any more because of a one in 2.7 million risk of paralysis from the vaccine strain of the virus), or intranasal flu vaccines.

Of course, there’s a difference between shedding and causing disease. For one thing, the strains of virus used in live attenuated virus vaccines are just that—attenuated. They’ve been weakened in some way so that they don’t cause the actual disease. Otherwise, a live virus vaccine would be the equivalent of giving the disease to the person vaccinated, which would rather sabotage the whole point of vaccination, which is to produce immunity to the disease without the vaccinated person actually having to suffer through the disease itself. (Scratch that, it would be exactly the same as giving the person the disease.) The question, then, is whether secondary transmission (transmission of the vaccine strain virus to others who haven’t received it) is a major concern. The answer to that question, is no, as these articles entitled Secondary Transmission: The short and sweet about live virus vaccine shedding and Live Vaccines and Vaccine Shedding.

We learn from the former article that these are commonly given live virus vaccines:

  • MMR – the combination measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine
  • Vavivax – the varicella or chicken pox vaccine
  • rotavirus vaccines – including two oral vaccines, RotaTeq and Rotarix
  • Flumist – the nasal spray flu vaccine
  • oral polio vaccine – the original oral polio vaccine (sometimes called the Sabin vaccine). Again, this has been replaced in the United States by the inactivated polio vaccine (Salk vaccine)

We also know that:

  • the MMR vaccine doesn’t cause shedding, except that the rubella part of the vaccine may rarely shed into breastmilk (since rubella is typically a mild infection in children, this isn’t a reason to not be vaccinated if you are breastfeeding though). What about the rare case of a person developing measles after getting the MMR vaccine? In addition to being extremely rare, it would also be extremely rare for a person to transmit the vaccine virus to another person after developing measles in this way.
  • the chicken pox vaccine doesn’t cause shedding unless your child very rarely develops a vesicular rash after getting vaccinated. However, the risk is thought to be minimal and the CDC reports only 5 cases of transmission of varicella vaccine virus after immunization among over 55 million doses of vaccine.
  • the rotavirus vaccine only causes shedding in stool, so can be avoided with routine hygiene techniques, such as good hand washing, and if immunocompromised people avoid diaper changes, etc., for at least a week after a child gets a rotavirus vaccine
  • transmission of the live, nasal spray flu vaccine has not been found in several settings, including people with HIV infection, children getting chemotherapy, and immunocompromised people in health-care settings

In other words, the claim that virus shedding is a serious problem to the point that vaccinated children, not unvaccinated children, should be quarantined is a myth, the same myth propagated by the Weston A. Price Foundation, aided and abetted by CNBC, that is in this press release. Actually, it’s the same antivaccine myth on steroids, given that I usually don’t see this claim coupled to a suggestion that vaccinated children be quarantined, which goes “above and beyond” (or perhaps I should say, “below and deeper”) than most antivaccinationist claims.

Basically, the only thing that the Weston A. Price Foundation press release is not incorrect about is that there is a concern about immunocompromised children, the same concern that leads to contraindications to vaccinating them with live virus vaccines. On the other hand, the Medical Advisory Committee of the Immune Deficiency Foundation has published recommendations that include:

Close contacts of patients with compromised immunity should not receive live oral poliovirus vaccine because they might shed the virus and infect a patient with compromised immunity. Close contacts can receive other standard vaccines because viral shedding is unlikely and these pose little risk of infection to a subject with compromised immunity.

Particularly important are annual immunizations with inactivated influenza vaccine; scheduled periodic pertussis vaccine (Tdap); pneumococcal vaccine; measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine; and varicella vaccine for older contacts whose routine immunizations might not be up to date

Since live oral polio vaccine is no longer used in the US, this means that there is no reason not to vaccinate close contacts of immunocompromised children and lots of reasons to vaccinate, particularly herd immunity. In other words, Sally Fallon Morell of the Weston A. Price Institute and Leslie Manookian are laying down hot, steaming piles of fetid dingos’ kidneys. They do mention a case of a man who caught polio from the diapers of his recently vaccinated daughter, Dominick Tenuto. I’ve mentioned him before. His daughter received the live oral polio vaccine back in 1979. Once again, we no longer use the oral polio vaccine in this country; so this is a now irrelevant example.

The press release finishes up with an invocation of the “measles is harmless” myth that antivaccinationists have been promoting of late in wake of the Disneyland measles outbreak. Contrary to this claim, measles is not a benign disease.

Yes, I know this is a press release. It’s rather interesting how it ended up on CNBC, though. As I pointed out, it first appeared on the Weston A. Price Foundation website over a month ago. From there it showed up on Alex Jone’s all conspiracy all the time website and various other alternative health outlets, where it was thoroughly deconstructed by Reuben at The Poxes Blog. A month later, it pops up on CNBC, and yesterday appeared on Mike Adams’ under the title Recently vaccinated children a threat to public health: Evidence shows they can SPREAD disease and CAUSE outbreaks, which, this being Mike Adams and all, is a complete lie, introduced thusly:

The following announcement appeared on via Globe Newswire. It is extremely well cited and it shatters the lies and propaganda of the vaccine industry — an industry that’s losing the P.R. on every front due to their verbal abuse of vaccine-damaged children, strong-arm intimidation tactics and attempted government coercion to demand vaccine obedience.

Ah, Mikey. No. As Reuben showed and I re-emphasized here, the citations were either irrelevant or didn’t show what the writers thought they showed, and this press release “shatters” nothing.

Now, I know that someone out there is going to say, “Hey, it’s just a press release!” News outlets publish them all the time. This is no doubt true. CNBC even makes that statement at the bottom, an editor’s comment that wasn’t there when you, my readers, first started sending this link to me but was apparently posted around noon yesterday after all the complaints started rolling in:

This is one of numerous press releases distributed by Globe
Newswire. CNBC carries material from several press release distributors as a service to our readers. (You can find them here …….

These press releases do not reflect original reporting by or the editorial judgment of CNBC.

Yes, perhaps. And certainly this should be a cautionary tale in terms of teaching you and me always to look very carefully at seeming news stories like this. That’s always a good thing to keep in mind. However, CNBC should ask itself this: Why is it that no other reputable news outlet published this press release? I’m sure the Weston A. Price Foundation sent it to other news outlets that publish press releases. I’ve done some Googling with snippets of text from the press release and all that comes up is CNBC, the Weston A. Price Foundation, antivaccine websites like VacTruth, the aforementioned Infowars link, and the like. Alone of all major news organizations, CNBC chose to run this press release. No one else other than crank and antivaccine sources. Just CNBC.

CNBC should ask itself why that is.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

387 replies on “CNBC publishes an antivaccine press release from the Weston A. Price Foundation and Leslie Manookian”

The Weston A. Price Foundation are a bunch of fruit cakes imbued with the idea that if only we lived shorter, brutish, disease-filled lives like our ancestors we would be healthier and not suffer diseases typical of old age.

Why would anyone take any of their press releases seriously?


recently vaccinated individuals can spread disease and that contact with the immunocompromised can be especially dangerous.

But at the same time,

“measles is harmless”

And yet, the antivaccinationists do not see the blatant contradiction in those two comments?

I attempted to engage on the comments – and the amount of stupid that was generated in return was quite breathtaking.

The appalling lack of scientific (or even basic) education or understanding was enough to make me want to punch the Internet, right in the gonads.

CNBC has a lot of explaining to do……

“The public health community is blaming unvaccinated children for the outbreak of measles at Disneyland, but the illnesses could just as easily have occurred due to contact with a recently vaccinated individual,” says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation.

This is a particular sore spot with me because it demonstrates how unbelievably stupid and dishonest the person stating something like this is. All Sally Fallon Morell has to do is show us that it is the vaccine strain which is causing disease outbreaks. Easy to understand for us, obviously a challenge for Ms. Morell et al.

The outright dishonesty contained in that press release is quite amazing.

Advertising camouflaged as editorial content is all the rage in traditional media – so-called native advertising. John Oliver’s take on it is worth watching on HBO or youtube (google john oliver native advertising). The CNBC piece has all signs of this particular type of advert.

Why is it that no other reputable news outlet published this press release?

That is an excellent question. It’s routine for all sorts of organizations, not just anti-vax groups, to put out press releases. I’m sure the AMA and other professional medical groups do too. And it’s all too common for ostensible news organizations to publish press releases as news items, not even bothering with the “both sides” fig leaf that comes up too often when they actually make a minimal effort to do some reporting. Reporters are just as lazy as other human beings, so they are all to willing to let a PR flack write the story for them. But they usually do at least check to see that the organization issuing the press release has some standing in the community (a business, an established political organization, etc.). Given the provenance on this press release, a competent reporter, even a lazy one, should be wondering just what the Weston A. Price Foundation is. That Alex Jones published it does not prove it’s wrong, but it should raise a flag that extra due diligence is required.

It’s clickbait. CNBC knows what it is doing, and prints crap like on purpose to get eyeballs to click links and see ads.

That’s the bottom line.

@Panacea #8

It’s clickbait. CNBC knows what it is doing, and prints crap like on purpose to get eyeballs to click links and see ads.

This. Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense isn’t just limited to social media outlets, where every seemingly real news article is a linkk to an herbal supplement ad. It’s perpetrated mainstream news sites as well – sometimes they’re clearly positioned as ads (like everything on the National Review website that isn’t an anti-Obama screed) and sometimes they’re not.

This is why I always talk to my kids (middle schoolers) about being cautious of ANYTHING you see on the internet anymore, even on a seemingly reputable website. There’s way too much disinformation and it’s easy to get suckered by an advert or press release posing as a news story.

Pure unadulterated click bait.

I got suckered in. The amounts of blinkered pseudoscientific smuggery going on in that thread was stupefying.

Amazing.. do any of you guys really think vaccines are a good head ? Personally the only thing I think there good for is the balance sheet of the companies who make and promote them .

Thanks for doing a post on this Orac. I saw this come up yesterday and it made my blood boil. Unfortunately, the article looks “legitimate enough” where it would probably create some doubt in the mind of a casual reader, where all they see is a “well-cited news release” that may have some merits here and there. I wish CNBC editors would apply a little bit of critical thinking versus just reposting anything anyone sends them. Maybe have a little bit of responsibility towards the public good. I know, wishful thinking…

I briefly had an internship where one of my duties included sending out press releases. Not writing them or anything, just firing up the fax machine (now you know how old I am) and sending the off to various media outlets. Back in those ancient days the media generally applied some editorial discretion as to what to do with those press releases. If it was a simple announcement of some event, it might go straight into a local paper’s calendar of events section. But if there were a story there, someone might call to follow up, or they might check a few things out at least before printing it. But they did not routinely publish press releases verbatim. Seeing as how the group I worked for was an anti-war and social justice advocacy organization, it was rather common for our press releases to be simply ignored.

The new media landscape, in which the number of actual journalists on staffs has been drastically reduced at the same time the fast paced internet culture demands reams more content at low cost, many outlets have become far more accepting of simply publishing press releases and advertorials. But when these things look like new pages, and given that it’s well understood that no one reads disclaimers and even if they do, they’re ineffective in terms of how a story is judged relative to the rest of the presentation and when they’re full of outright lies and are frankly dangerous, it’s utterly irresponsible for publications not to do some editorial due diligence. Saying it’s a press release published “as a service” is not excuse. In fact, publishing press releases without checking them out is a disservice to their readers and everyone else.

@Gus Snarp #13

So much of what you said is true. If people are lamenting the lack of veracity in news reporting, it’s due to the fact that there isn’t nearly enough human checking of facts and research anymore. Some of that is the unfortunate side effect of news outlet budget constraints. Some of it is flat-out laziness. Some of it is the hypercompetitive news business, where getting the most hits and/or getting the story out first trumps accuracy.

@ a-non:

I’m in total agreement. The current state of reportege- with a few exceptions- is quite poor unfortunately.

Yesterday, Mikey ( Natural News) discussed the fact that CNBC put this out.
In his ostentatiously expanded reference list, he co-mingles sources like CDC and NYT with those from Mercola, Weston-Price and Natural Society..

I find that this is standard for woo-meisters:
create a long list and pepper it with reasonable sources to entice the reality-based who don’t inspect too closely.

A friend gave me “Nourishing Traditions” by Silly Felon as a Christmas gift several years ago.

I just threw that f*cking book into the trash.

Great post, although I have a question about this part:

“transmission of the live, nasal spray flu vaccine has not been found in several settings, including people with HIV infection, children getting chemotherapy, and immunocompromised people in health-care settings”

According to the CDC, it has been shown to shed.

“Can people who have gotten the nasal spray flu vaccine spread the vaccine viruses to others?
Yes, it is possible, but it is very rare. Data indicate that both children and adults vaccinated with nasal spray flu vaccine can shed vaccine viruses after vaccination, although in lower amounts than typically occurs during shedding of wild-type influenza viruses. Rarely, shed vaccine viruses can be transmitted from vaccine recipients to unvaccinated persons. However, serious illnesses have not been reported among unvaccinated persons who have been infected inadvertently with vaccine viruses.”


The Weston Price Foundation gave Andrew Wakefield an award. The “integrity in science award”.

No, really, they did.

When challenged about this in their newsletter, they defended the action

Editor’s Response: Dr. Andrew Wakefield was singled out for the wrath of the pharmaceutical industry when his research found the vaccine strain of measles virus in the intestinal tracts of children whose parents reported regressive autism and inflammatory bowel disease after the MMR vaccine. In the pursuit of the link between childhood vaccines, intestinal inflammation, and neurological injury in children, Dr. Wakefield lost his job, his career, his fellowships and his medical license. Many other teams and papers have replicated his work; these studies have been peer reviewed and published. Dr. Wakefield is in fact suing the British Medical Journal (which repudiated his published research paper) and the journalist who attacked him most virulently. His boss and supervisor, prestigious pediatric gastroenterologist Professor John Walker-Smith, who was also stripped of his medical license and accused of the same supposed wrongdoings, sued in the High Court in Britain and was fully exonerated on all charges. The judge severely rebuked the British General Medical Council for its egregious misconduct. Dr. Wakefield’s findings of a novel form of bowel disease are now so accepted in the scientific community that vaccine makers are attempting to develop a vaccine for bowel disease in kids with autism. There are well over two hundred scientific papers and case reports published in peer reviewed medical journals documenting and exploring vaccine injury and death. (These can be found at Both the U.S. and Italian governments have conceded that MMR can cause autism. Finally, I should add that WAPF, which supports non-toxic therapies, has always opposed toxic vaccinations. The Foundation will continue to support Dr. Wakefield and others like him, who have the courage to say the truth.

How many mistakes in that one defense?

Argh, I am confused now! (Not about the Weston Price foundation. I figured them out after innocently buying their cookbook years ago….yeeesh.)

Friend of mine is immunocompromised s/t leukemia and bone marrow transplant. She has been told that she can’t be around kids recently vaxxed with the MMR due to this concern. My kid is just MMR age and so this is figuring heavily into our social plans!

Is that a mistaken belief, part of the same woo, or is that the germ of truth inside the lies? I always thought it was the germ of truth inside the lies, but maybe it’s not?


We’ll do whatever her oncologist says, but I’m really curious now. And confused.

Thanks for this. One of my Facebook friends (who is anti-vax, anti-GMO, etc., etc.) posted the CNBC article as truth. I didn’t want to get in an argument on her timeline (she blames all of her kids’ problems on the evul chemikilz), so just hid her post. I’ve now posted your takedown on my timeline.

Science Mom:

All Sally Fallon Morell has to do is show us that it is the vaccine strain which is causing disease outbreaks. Easy to understand for us, obviously a challenge for Ms. Morell et al.

In her defence, it is very difficult to do this when it is not in fact true.

” … The Weston A. Price Foundation are a bunch of fruit cakes imbued with the idea that if only we lived shorter, brutish, disease-filled lives like our ancestors we would be healthier and not suffer diseases typical of old age…. ”

They tend to neglect the ” … because you probably didn’t survive infancy … ” caveat.


There’s a theoretical risk that a recently vaccinated child might shed enough vaccine virus to cause an infection in an immune-compromised individual. At most, I think there are only a couple case reports of this possibly occurring. The risk is certainly very low, but I don’t see any harm if you decide to wait a week or so following immunization.

@ Todd W.:

Right but alties speak as if these incredibly rare infections happened every day.

Personally the only thing I think there good for is the balance sheet of the companies who make and promote them .

And your evidence that developing and marketing vaccines to prevent serious infectious diseases generate a greater return on investment than developing and marketing treatments fort those who have become infected would be…what exactly, Stewart? Be specific.

Right but alties speak as if these incredibly rare infections happened every day.

While simultaneously telling us these infections, rare or otherwise, are nothing to worry about anyway–after all, only a handful of people have died of the measles in the US in the past 10 years or so, so where’s the problem?

Great post, although I have a question about this part:

“transmission of the live, nasal spray flu vaccine has not been found in several settings, including people with HIV infection, children getting chemotherapy, and immunocompromised people in health-care settings”

Annie, what this means is that the live nasal vaccine is cold-adapted and when introduced in a nice warm host, the virus loses the capability to replicate but can still be transmitted. This secondary transmission does not result in illness but post-marketing surveillance has reported that vaccine strain flu virus has been recovered in rare cases. Does that make sense?

Rosemary, I suggest that you read Dr. Vincent Iannelli’s article on “vaccine shedding” (with links), about exposing a youngster who has recently received the MMR vaccine to a person who has undergone a bone marrow transplant for leukemia treatment.

Dr. Iannelli discusses the consequences of not providing MMR vaccine for children who have close contact with the bone marrow transplant and the real danger of those unprotected children contracting measles-mumps-rubella and exposing a vulnerable person to the wild circulating viruses.

As far as I know, the only contraindications for those who have close contact with a person undergoing bone marrow transplants, and are hospitalized in reverse protective hospitalization, is the LAIV (Live Attenuated Intranasal Influenza Virus). Hospital staff who care for these patients are advised to take the killed seasonal influenza vaccine injection.

@ JGC:

While you are correct- they DO pooh pooh measles- I *meant* that the extremely rare infections the immunocompromised might get are spoken of as being frequent when they are nearly non-existent.

Stewart Johnston: Amazing.. do any of you guys really think vaccines are a good head ? Personally the only thing I think there good for is the balance sheet of the companies who make and promote them .”

Perhaps you would favor us with the economic analysis showing that it is cheaper to treat measles instead of preventing it with an MMR vaccine. The last Wales outbreak at about one in twelve cases require hospital care. Use that as your benchmark.

Make sure your analysis has similar caliber as An economic analysis of the current universal 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella vaccination program in the United States.

I am sure the NHS would very much value your learned input.

For a laugh break, skim the bios of the board members of the Weston A. Price Foundation. A true meeting of the minds.

“Her interests include music, gardening, metaphysics . . . and of course cooking.”
“has been featured prominently as an “inner Circle” expert on [mercola dot com]”
“is a practicing naturopath, specializing in the past 20 years in the field commonly called magnetic, intuitive, spiritual or psychic healing.”
“he set up an anthroposophical medical practice”
“Professional studies include biological science and pre-med but her life took a turn to the restaurant business”
“Stephanie Seneff”
“developed a new hypothesis to explain atherosclerosis that was named Acidity Theory of Atherosclerosis”
“she trains apprentices in the shamanic arts”

Nobody is pumping neurotoxins, antibiotics, Mercury, formaldehyde and other assorted garbage into my child. If you sheeple choose to poison your children that’s your business, leave mine alone! Besides, if your vaccines work so well for you why do I need to vaccinate mine! “Herd immunity” is a myth! It doesn’t last that’s why you sheeple have to keep pumping this poison into yourselves and your children on a regular basis. Natural, lifetime immunity is the only true immunity. Vaccinated “immunity” also cannot be passed on to babies by their mothers whereas natural immunity can! I’m 60 years old and have not been vaccinated for anything since I was six-years old and suffered a serious Ezcema outbreak after receiving vaccines for entry into first grade. I have had flare-ups off and on all my life (since the outbreak occurred only hours after receiving the vaccinations, there was no doubt that the vaccine caused it!) As a result of this vaccine-induced autoimmune condition, I received waivers all through school. I have had all childhood diseases so have all my friends and everybody recovered nicely and didn’t even get that sick. Our parents deliberately exposed us to these things to achieve natural lifetime immunity. As a result of what happened to me there was no way I was going to have that poison pumped into him. I did not get him vaccinated at all and he never gets sick. I raised him on a nutrient dense diet of real food, saw that he got regular exercise and the proper supplements. My son and daughter-in-law have said they will homeschool their kids if they can’t get waivers for them for school. These crappy vaccines screw up your natural immune system, cause autoimmune disorders and expose people and children to toxic substances on a regular basis. No one with autoimmune disorders can take vaccines for a reason. No one with any kind of allergy (which is an autoimmune response) should get vaccines either. The media downplays negative responses to vaccines but that doesn’t mean they don’t happen. They happen more often than people like to think! As for autism, well autism is known to be caused by exposure to environmental toxins and poisonous chemicals. Ingredients in vaccines qualify. Healthy children fed a nutrient dense diet of real food (not that highly-processed, chemical additive-laden crap most of you probably eat!), get regular exercise and the proper supplements DO NOT DIE FROM CHILDHOOD DISEASES! If you’re afraid of your child dying of these relatively benign childhood diseases then maybe you better ask yourself why your child’s immune system isn’t worth crap. As for the flu, the flu shot makes people sick and doesn’t guarantee that you won’t get the flu. It’s a waste of time and just exposes you to toxic substances yearly for no reason. If you’re afraid of the flu and feel that your body can’t fight it off then your immune system is crap! I don’t get sick. I’ve only had the flu three times in my entire life. I haven’t had a cold in six years! You don’t need a flu shot if you take Vitamin D3 and wash your hands! The only people I know who get colds and flu every year are people who take flu shots! As for the Hep B and HPV vaccine, well, these are “lifestyle diseases” and avoidance is the best vaccine. People eat garbage, drink garbage, abuse drugs and alcohol, smoke, over eat, conduct themselves like dogs in heat then run to Big Pharma to have themselves injected with MORE garbage! Then later on in life they wonder why they’re falling apart! I firmly believe that most disease is the body’s way of dealing with an overload of garbage and poison. Nobody in my family has ever died under 80. With more than one family member passing the century mark. All without any help from Big Pharma or vaccines! Wake up sheeple! When it comes to the efficacy and safety of vaccines and the “science” of herd immunity–someone is pissing on your leg and telling you it’s raining and you’re falling for this crap hook, line and sinker! Think about it! I bet you dollars to donuts I’ll outlive all you walking chemicals!

” … anthroposophical medical practice …”
A what?!?!

Ala Rudolf Steiner. In short, vaccines are bad, diseases are awesome and help children achieve a higher level of being. And they probably don’t have black crayons in the waiting room.

PS: Even though they were never vaccinated, after they had me they believed it best to have me vaccinated. They grew up at a time when disease was common, including polio. After my Ezcema outbreak, they told me later on that they were heartbroken. They believed the “science”. It crushed them to learn that they were wrong. I was never vaccinated again and my parents were anti-vaxxers until the day they died.

I blame a lot of this endless recycling of myths on the 24/7 news cycle. There are blank screens and empty pages to be filled and precious few important, and well researched, stories or new thoughts. When those deadlines loom large the temptation to dig up a corpse, stuff it into a new suit, and trot it out as news, becomes irresistible. They know they will never win a Pulitzer Prize doing that sort of thing but it gets the editor off their back until the next deadline rolls around.

Rosemary: I suspect her oncologist is being hyper-cautious for legal reasons; if she’s exposed to a kid who just got his MMR and she subsequently experiences any adverse events of any sort, you’re looking at a possible malpractice suit. He may well be following the advice of his malpractice carrier.

There’s a theoretical risk that a recently vaccinated child might shed enough vaccine virus to cause an infection in an immune-compromised individual.

Fun fact: The “naturally immune” can also shed measles virus in urine.

If one considers vaccine-associated measles disease rather than than the horribly pervasive, imaginary threat that the antivaccine brigade would like to cling to, it is here suggests merely that “exclusion and administration of immune globulin may be considered for susceptible, immunocompromised contacts of cases of vaccine-associated measles in immunocompromised patients.” This would seem to represent an upper limit on the secondary transmission of measles vaccine.

Mumps (particularly L-Zagreb) appears to be a different story, but I have to run out.

On seeing these things posted on social media, how does one cope knowing that your friends are fruitcakes? I engaged with a semi-crazy raw milk advocate (who was a friend of a friend) who blocked me. I realized I couldn’t talk to this person after she stated flat out that I couldn’t show any illnesses or deaths linked to raw milk consumption and I posted links to CDC. When she came back with ‘you can’t trust anything the government says’ I was at a loss. I don’t know where to take an argument when someone isn’t living in the real world. Do you just unfriend these people? Hide their posts? Ask them to seek professional help? I just wonder what other people do. Depending on my level of engagement with the person I often ignore them or hide their feeds. I generally leave the unfriend ball in their court.

Corporate misconduct has caused the vaccination issue not the media. Pharmaceutical science has had some dirty little secrets that have broken people’s trust (Vioxx,etc) and it is coming back to bite us all. It also seems to me that as I peruse the blogs both for and against the science of vaccines that both camps are more about “I am right” than about science. Perhaps people who hold so tightly on to science need to remember, that some of the most amazing scientific discoveries began as what you like to refer to as “quackery”. Pasteur, Fleming, Marshall, Pauling, Jenner all had theories that went against the grain of conventional thought and were considered “quacks” but their “quackery” has changed our world. In fact, I believe that “quack” Pauling, don’t quote me, might have had his theory about vitamin c proven. Just sayin

I understood your meaning–it’s just that the ability to simultaneously embrace the positions “Vaccines are dangerous because those vaccinated might very, very rarely shed vaccine strain viruses, which might even more rarely cause disease in immunocompromised individuals” and “The disease the virus prevents and the shed virus might cause is so trivial we don’t need to vaccinate against it anyway” raises cognitive dissonance to the level of an Olympic event.

Pasteur, Fleming, Marshall, Pauling, Jenner all had theories that went against the grain of conventional thought and were considered “quacks”

I’m sure you’ll be more than happy to demonstrate these 10 assertions with something more substantial than bluster.

Oh, wait, your pseudonym is a punctuation character. I suspect you put about as much thought into the whole lot.

If you sheeple choose to poison your children use so-called “paragraphs” that’s your business


Actually, ?
In fact, I believe that “quack” Pauling, don’t quote me, might have had his theory about vitamin c proven.

No, he didn’t, at least not with the megadoses he proposed. In fact, megadoses of Vitamins have shown to increase mortality in some cases. Possibly the biggest thing to come out of some of the vitamin C studies was the placebo effect for reports of symptoms based on patients who were able to figure out they were receiving the vitamins.

Annie, what this means is that the live nasal vaccine is cold-adapted and when introduced in a nice warm host, the virus loses the capability to replicate


Cammi, I have donated 15 cents to the Get-A-Paragraph Foundation in your name.

^ Now that I’m situated for more than quips, live vaccines have to replicate to be effective. Cold adaptation reduces where this can happen well.

@Annie at #19 – My BFF’s husband is immunocompromised, and this year she went EVERYWHERE trying to find a pediatric flu shot (rather than mist) for their 4 year old. She finally found one, then after the fact her pediatrician (or possibly a pharmacist) told her that the recommendation had changed this year, and they could have gone with the mist after all. I’ll try to get more details.

Why would antivaxxers want newly immunized children to be quarantined? If such children shed the measles, that makes them the perfect guests of honor at a measles party. The measles virus in the MMR is in fact a strain of measles. Antivaxxers object to the measles *shot* because it contains ground-up babies and the like, but by exposing their children to a freshly vaccinated child, they can get the advantage of natural infection and natural immunity while the vaccinated child takes all the risk. What’s not to like?

Other than the fact that people freshly vaccinated with the MMR don’t shed the measles virus, of course.

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs, but I stand by what I said. Unless you have ADHD you should be able to read it.

Well, there’s always the horrible disappointment the poor children will go through when they don’t, in fact, get those marvelous measles from the freshly vaxed friend. One wouldn’t want to take a chance of disappoint the children. Of course, it would be the stupid vaccine’s fault- a decent vaccine would get other kids sick for real.

Dirty little LAIVed kids. What, exactly, is contact immunity’and reliance upon that when considering ‘uptake’ supposed to imply but ‘sickifying’ others?

Contact immunity is the property of some vaccines, where a vaccinated individual can confer immunity upon unimmunized individuals through contact with bodily fluids or excrement.

I guess there are ‘no studies to show’ that said replicating virii can mutate from dicked-with form back to nasty when considering mechanisms of transmission to others.

Snopes implies that “Patient Zero” in the Disneyland outbreak wasn’t previously immunized — That is to say, there has been no disclosed evidence that they were or not.

Cammi Pa, the comments you have seen about paragraphs in your original post was ridicule (just in case you missed it.) There is so much nonsense contained in it. I suspect the effort to refute it would be totally lost on you.

There are two things I would suggest you consider looking into before you post again:
1) Simple statistics. An understanding of this analysis methodology would help you gain some insight in the nonsense you spew about herd immunity.
And 2) Gain some critical thinking. It will astound you how much you will be able to understand exactly stupid the nonsense you wrote really is. Critical thinking will have the added benefit of eventually stopping you from pushing your ridiculous perspective any further.

Give it a try, the world will be an infinitesimally smarter place.

Taken together, the comments upthread on how the PR release wound up on CNBC are a pretty decent account. It’s not any one thing, most likely, but some combination of a number of them, and maybe a few others. Why no other reputable news outlet published this release and CNBC did could just be random – i.e. some low-level staffer somewhere was going to see a clickbait value in the headline, not know or dig into the background, have some content quota to meet, and put the release up without thinking about it – and it just happened to be CNBC. Or it could be that the odds are just that one big news source will have a low-level staffer friendly to ant-vax views, and that happen to be CNBC.

For all I know, in this new age, the process could be highly computerized, with some algorithm parsing the PR feeds with crude filters for topics know to be of interest to CNBC-wed readers, and maybe even calculating any native advertiisng revenue kickback into the equation: feeding a list of suggestions to a human being for final Yes/No, and whoever does that is too bored to do anything but click ‘Yes”.

The thing is, what goes up on the Web in these news aggregation sites isn’t vetted at all by anyone with any real investment in framing a ‘voice’ or ‘position’ for CNBC. They’re still basically a TV network. What gets on the air is what they care about. On the Web, the material related directly to the on-air programming will crafted with some care, by folks higher up the food chain. But that general news feed where PR releases get dumped, no.

I don’t have time to look, but I’d guess that wherever rubric that Price/Manookian bit showed up is full of ripped-straight-from-the-feed PR copy from all sorts of sources, most of them appearing benign to most readers who have little investment in the topics at hand.

This is a very bad practice in terms of what used to be called “the social responsibility of the press”, but the only intent behind it is shoring up shaky bottom lines. It’s an example of how ‘non-ideological’ choices in terms of intent have practical ideological effects.

The good news for sbm advocates is that this ‘story’ did get flagged and the disclaimer added. That means a either a fair number of readers or someone with clout saw it and complained. Because CNBC-web has undoubtedly shoved thousands of PR releases right into the hopper un-vetted, without ever having cause to put that little disclaimer at the bottom.

Cammi, I quit reading after “sheeple.”

Ad hominem attacks are really not the way to make a convincing argument.

@ Narad, thanks for the correction.

Unless you have ADHD you should be able to read it.

Keep digging Cammi.

@Kiiri #44
I’ve been struggling with the same thing. How do you get through to these morons? Two months ago I naively thought there was only Jenny McCarthy, Andrew Wakefield, Bob Sears and their small but determined band of idiotic followers. Since I’ve tried to reason with these people I’ve been subjected to the nonsensical rants of Jack Wolfson, Mike Adams, Suzanne Humphries and whatever other bs Health Impact News or Natural News decides to highlight.

If you ask them for evidence to support their claims, or provide a critical review of the dumb sh*t by Tomljenovic and Shaw which they will try to pass off as independent research, they will pout like petulant children and call you things like “sheeple” in the “pocket of Big Pharma”.

Alas “Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.” – Laurence J. Peter

Right Cammie Pa?


I guarantee you that there is at least one person with ADHD reading this blog and its comments. Stop indulging your ableism and do the work of making your writing readable for as many people as possible. (You have the advantage of knowing what you are trying to say.)

The solution is for Orac and his not so secret other site to start issuing press releases of their own 🙂

Cammi: I not only have ADD, but I mastered paragraphs at 10. If you had a Salk’s polio shot, you must be somewhere in your 60s and still haven’t learned to write. Odd, considering even the women who became housewives from your generation usually at least graduated from high school, if not college.
What cult compound did you escape from, and would you please go back? *Salutes with middle finger*

As an education professional I am constantly berated that the education system has gone downhill. Then I see people like Cammi.

But just in case you’re interested in learning, let’s start with one little thing. How about you choose one vaccine and tell us the specific toxins it contains?

^ Sorry, I forgot to note that “[u]nless you have ADHD[,] you should be able to read it.”

“I’ve only had the flu three times in my entire life.”

And, I only had influenza once in my life…58 years ago…during a serious pandemic:

I had many of the “natural” childhood diseases; pertussis, varicella, measles, mumps and received a rubella vaccine about 40 years ago before conceiving my son, and had high titers when tested for all these disease more than twenty years when I applied for a job as a public health nurse. A few years after the Tdap booster was approved for children and before it was approved for adults as a one-time booster, I contracted pertussis (about 8 years ago). Pertussis immunity whether derived from “natural” disease or from pertussis-containing vaccines “wanes”…as does the immunity from against diphtheria and tetanus…whether or not you receive the whole cell pertussis vaccine or the acellular pertussis vaccines.

Perhaps Cammi would like to provide us with some basic immunology lessons to explain why I was vulnerable to pertussis and not vulerable to contract those other childhood diseases? Please be specific Cammi and make certain to explain the differences between primary vaccine failure and secondary vaccine failure, as well as antigenic drift and antigenic shift of influenza viruses.


Weston A Price Foundation Honorary Board Members

… Stephanie Seneff …

I think that explains quite a number of things.

As an education professional I am constantly berated that the education system has gone downhill. Then I see people like Cammi.

I normally fail my students if they are unable to write in paragraphs.

Clearly your standards are quite a long way below mine.

Over at AoA, Kent Heckenlively is doing a Pauline Hanson.

I am laughing hysterically.

For those who don’t follow antipodean politics, Pauline Hanson started a far-right party (and subsequently got booted from it, so started another) on an anti-immigration platform. She is widely regarded as a fruitcake.

AoA is a laugh a minute at the moment. Sadly I seem to be permanently banned from commenting.

There is a praise for an article written by Levi Quackenboss about the misogynistic treatment of Jenny McCarthy.

The article focuses on the fact that when Jenny McCarthy talks about vaccination it is always reported in connection with the fact that she was a playboy bunny. Apparently, this is misogyny.

The reality is that Jenny McCarthy’s only obvious skill is taking her clothes off. This is not a good background to giving medical advice. I wouldn’t take medical advice from Dennis Rodman either.

The comments on the AoA version are really worth a read – especially the contribution from ‘not an MD’ (at least they are honest).

@ Cammi Pi #37

” … relatively benign childhood diseases … ”

Seriously? Benign? I invite you to come to the cemetery where I work and read through the 1850-1930 burial registers; page- after page of children who died of measles, scarlet fever, typhus, diphtheria, whooping cough, and other vaccine preventable diseases throughout the course of daily living. When the worst outbreaks hit, you will see lists of families who lost several children, sometimes within days of each other. Wiped out. Poof! I cannot imagine the heartbreak of those parents.

“Benign” my sweet patootee.

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