When a parent won’t abide by the understanding behind a non-medical exemption to school vaccine mandates

@ emma crew. There are ways of helping that problem. No magic but carefully planned exposure to approximations of the medical appointments can make visits much easier. Email me at [email protected] and I will send you some resources for preparing for medical procedures.

But, of course, you do read. You can’t resist.
True, that… I really, really suspect more and more that i’m ‘fucked in the head’.

Kay Marie @50 My younger brother had chickenpox when he was about 6 – I did not get sick at all. Fast forward to me pregnant at 27 – a girl in my workplace came down with suspected chickenpox. I was tested and the blood work came back that I was well and truly immune. I had the good fortune to be working in a Pathology lab – our resident Virologist recounted the fact that 75% of people who cannot remember having had chickenpox will be immune due their infection being sub-clinical. Funnily enough, when my eldest child came down with chickenpox at age 4 before the vaccination was on the schedule, my 2 year old daughter also did not catch it. I had her vaccinated shortly afterwards, so never knew her immune status to the CP.
As an aside – I was immunized against rubella as a 14 year old, as per the Australian schedule for girls in the early 80’s. Boys were not. As a result, my husband was part of a rubella epidemic hitting the 18 – 30 year old men in my part of the world in the mid 1990’s . They were in the window before the vaccine schedule changed to be given at 12 months old.
He suffered for a few days with crippling joint pain – and the rash was textbook. (Bloodthirsty tech that I was – his few extra stolen vials boosted our positive IgM control sera stash!!! )

Politicalguineapig, don’t listen to this ‘trance’ :

Again, when one side’s vastly louder, the loud side should be regarded as a majority, no matter what the actual numbers are.

What? Why? That doesn’t make any sense.

I will say that while I’d like to be supportive of my friends if they have kids, autistic or not,

I’ll say the same thing too, although I recognize that having kids can change one’s life in ways one hadn’t anticipated. I was up in Chicago visiting some friends a while back, and the lady of the two asked me if I was still going to come visit once they had kids, and I said “Of course, if you’re still going to want my depraved self hanging around for a week at a time once you have kids.”

I’d always be waiting for the time when they turn into narcissistic monsters, like most of the anti-vax club.

What? Why? Do you know any people who have kids? I’d say it typically makes people less narcissistic, if anything, although perhaps more busy with all the adult responsibilities.

(they’re kinda doomed by demographics, I’m afraid.)

What does that even mean?

“I lie across his upper body and have a death grip on the non-shot arm (a few years ago he wormed that arm between out bodies and grabbed the syringe, bending the needle 30 degrees, I’m terrified if he does that again it will break off in his arm), my husband all but sits on his legs, one nurse uses two hands to hold his arm still, while the other darts in with the shot, all while he yells NONONONONONONONONO. It is a horrific experience for all of us.”
Your child “gets it.”
He knows he is being HARMED!
Watch this:

@Herr Doktor

I managed to take photographs in the Amber Room of the Catherine Palace, where photography is strictly forbidden (because of the flashes) and the window blinds are drawn to protect the amber from sunlight. I’d switched my flash off and, with my camera hanging against my chest I let it do its autofocus thing. They didn’t turn out too badly, but two was all I dared to take.

I also got a beautiful shot of the babushkas all seated ten yards apart along a long palace corridor, each one framed through the doorway of each subsequent room. It was like Russian dolls in 2D!

Anyway, off topic a bit. Sorry.

It’s hard to gauge whether it’s a majority or a minority of parents of autistic kids who are also anti-vax.

It isn’t hard at all when it’s been repeatedly pointed out to you. Just own the fact that you are a myopic bigot already.

Again, when one side’s vastly louder, the loud side should be regarded as a majority, no matter what the actual numbers are.

Holy hell how can you be that obtuse?

This is why you should always bite hell out of the dentist.

That’s unfortunately topical for today — I’m getting two molars ground down to be crowned. But as a benefit I get rid of some mercury amalgam fillings, so I’m sure my health will improve enormously!

/sarcasm

@Tim —

I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with your health.

But we should recognize that a whole lot of parents get their brains eaten by the propaganda that the anti-vax brigade spits out.

I would hardly call less than 2% of parents in any way a majority, whether they’re loud or not.

“As a rule, white middle class people tend to sign their kids up for preschool the second they’re out of the womb, and throw fits when the kid isn’t perfect. ”

There is a small subset of suburbanites that fit that but they usually aren’t the middle class. More typically I find they are the top crust of the upper middle class if not smack in the middle of the upper class.

Usually the ones that I’ve met like that will spend a significant amount of time trying to convince me that $260,000 is the median family income of the US and barely enough to make ends meet rather than making them thisclose to being in the 1%. That group, IMO often lives in their own little bubble and you really can’t generalize their attitudes and behaviors to the vast majority of middle America.

Even then I’ve found plenty of people in those communities who are realistic, down to earth, self-aware, generous of spirit and just a bemused by the narcissistic oneupsmanship of their neighbors as the rest of us.

Sometimes PGP really hits that rescue the animal button on me and I just want to snatch them away from the hell they are stuck in.

Thx ann #100

I do have tendencies to imagine illnesses in myself which have usually played out to be nothing. Perhaps, these last nine months, I’ve *worried myself to death* with an added bonus of self-fullfilling prophecy that has manifested as destruction of my teeth.

However, I would like to hear the ‘straight dope’ on why *Novamin* is not available in the US. Glaxxo (who bought the patent) seemed to imply that FDA had a problem with the word “repair”. And yet, their world-renowned product Sensodyne Repair and Protect is rolled out in the united states but contains stannous fucking fluoride.

I’m a day late and a dollar short, as they say:: If I had looked with a mirror and recognized what was happening on the backside of those teeth even three months ago I could have purchased the remineralization fix. The fix that Amazon and Ebay now refuse to ship.

All brands of toothpaste with the bioglass minus fluoride have folded.

I could be wrong but I’m getting the idea that tooth ‘dentin’ does, in fact, grow. The dentin lattice induces the concentration of Hydroxylapatite (enamel). Of course, it won’t grow if poisoned with fluoride.

I found this neat gum, Spry, which stimulates saliva and also contains xylitol; The problem is it also contains glycerine which prevents the saliva naturally remineralizing the teeth.

Hell, I can’t even put my fingers on some simple PH test strips to see that my spit is not battery acid — The dentist did a pretty good, quick impersonation of being without knowledge on saliva ph or the testing thereof. I am aware they can be purchased online and several pharmacies offered to order me some but, dayam, didn’t they used to be in everyone’s medicine cabinate?

n the last few weeks, GlaxoSmithKline finally (and relatively quietly) began the sale of its renowned Sensodyne Repair & Protect toothpaste in the United States, and if you think maybe I am going to write one of those good news/bad news stories, I am not. There is no good news here and I have scratched a bald spot in my wrinkled gray scalp over the past five days trying to make sense of GSK’s decision.

http://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/biomaterials/gsk-drops-ball-with-puzzling-us-release-of-sensodyne-repair-protect-sans-45s5-glass

“”even . bird watchers.. Why not.

Naa. I have it on good authority and total preconceived, pigeonholed understanding of this chick which allows me to reccomend trainspotting for PgP’s social erupting outreach.

The Station Agent:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340377/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTGUP0JK1cU

Now, do you peg that little dude ^^ as a midget or a dwarf, PgP?

Usually my warning sign for the deadly burbs is when the commercial properties like fast food joints usually known for some iconic coloration or architectural style have to conform to the community standards for allowed paint colors and signage.

Not that it is really any better for the entrepreneurs. Try planting a retro shiny diner in the middle of one of the beige planned communities.

Re: suburbs: I’d honestly rather live in some little Bumblef*ck, middle-of-nowhere type place than in a wealthy suburb. Depending on the region, there’ll at least be some biological diversity – flora and fauna and whatnot. Suburbs are just dead and, like, existentially crushing.

I mean, I’d really rather live in a city over either environment, at least most of the time I think so, but suburbs are like the worst of both worlds.

@ JP:

Of course, as fate would have it, I could- if I so chose- blend seamlessly into those tight and white h3lls of glowering, self-satisfied perfectionism based entirely upon insipid mediocrities and advertising copy that crushes independent spirits like any unruly rebellious weed that dare disrupt their immaculately maintained preternaturally green lawns.

Both my late father and I had/have a certain to-the-manor-born appearance and demeanor as well speaking quite admirably well which impresses a particular segment of society immensely. I’m very white and have good posture, I’m nearly thin. I look extremely good in business clothing.

If I tamed my hair, no one would ever guess

Actually one of my gentlemen is even better at this ruse than I am. You should see what he’s like behind closed doors- for one thing, every other word is f@ck.

@PGP:

It’s hard to gauge whether it’s a majority or a minority of parents of autistic kids who are also anti-vax.

Sociology research: how does that work?

@Toto:

You have been eating waaay too many glyphosate fries….

That explains it — Toto’s been doing it wrong! Toto, you’re supposed to put the glyphosate solution on the potato plants, and then much later fry the potato tubers. You’re not supposed to fry the glyphosate directly!

Toto@89: In case you are listening, and not just talking: chicken pox is in a totally different family of viruses from smallpox and “cowpox”. Chickenpox is much more closely related to herpes. That’s why it does that lovely thing of coming out from hiding in your nerves to attack you later in life as shingles.

I actually participated in a study of concurrent viremia of vaccinia and any herpes virus. So at least I won’t get smallpox!

Science Mom@96
I remember a little bit ago the topic of nurses being prone to woo came up and PGP made some really offensive (both about women and nurses in general) comment to the point that Orac himself stepped in and PGP still failed to see what he said wrong. I wouldn

Narad #115 — Perhaps The Man isn’t suppressing Recaldent because it is worthless for growing dentin if that dentin is killed by fluoride.

The milk protein, casein phosphopeptide, induces rapid growth of dentin. The lattice of dentin accepts the calcium sodium phosphosilicate whereby the composing elements are secreated in saliva — I *think* there is a hormone that encourages that deposition there; I also *think* that metabolic imbalance including parathyroid hormone or parathyroid-like chemicals can cause dissolution.

Teeth can grow; a ‘super eruption’ growing up to fill the void from the missing opposing tooth surface contact is purported to be bad.

Someone please show me why this *45S5 glass* is a big no no in the US or why Amazon/Ebay are refusing to ship it though it is not exactly ‘Schedule x prohibited’.

Make it good, pharma shills; I’ll believe the valid argument just as much as why cannabis stayed verboten.

I often have the impression that I don’t live in the same world as a commenter. Normally they are anti-vaxxers or serious woosters.

The descriptions above about what suburbs and the people who live in them are like are so alien to my experience that I have to conclude that I don’t live in those commenters’ worlds either.

. And it isn’t made out of spit. It’s made by living cells in the pulp.

I have great respect for you, Calli Arcale. Please allow us both to synergistically redress what I have proposed. Teeth are alive, until they are not.

Vicky, I have lately taken to making a 70-mile round trip to obtain well water.

Narad, I have grown quite fond of your writing. However, I must object to the admonishion to fluoridate. Conspiracy theory aside, I more and more find that what is ubiquitous and imposed is invariably detrimental.

@ LW:

Occasionally, hyperbole is enlisted in the service of jest.
I thought talking about craft shops would give me away.

The human race survived for millions of years without fluoridated water, so obviously it’s not necessary.

Ditto vaccines, antibiotics, sterile surgical technique, clean water, clothes and the Internet.

Back to basics, people!

@Dangerous Bacon:
The human race also survived for millions of years without lines down the center of the road that The Man won’t let you cross. Obviously they are detrimental and should be removed or at least ignored.

So many shills here for Big Organic…

@GWD
“Donovan also uses the “health freedom” argument and complains that people will know that she didn’t vaccinate her son against chickenpox because he is being excluded from school”

This sounds good to me. I really would not want to have an unvacinated child who may have been exposed to chickenpox playing with my children or visiting a house where there is someone with immune deficiencies.

We can look on it a bit like giving a leper a bell to ring;
Stay away, stay away.

I got chickenpox at the age of 18 as a Christmas present from my older sister who assured us that her doctor said she was nolonger contagious when she and her husband came to visit us just before Christmas. What fun!

@Denice (#114):

Well, I could probably pull off that drag act myself, if I really wanted to, but I have no interest in it. I spent some of my formative years being forced into a good-Jehovah’s-Witness-girl act/drag show, which was fairly soul-crushing, and I am no longer interested in any sort of charades, unless they are strictly for fun or art.

Like I said, though, I don’t have any particular animosity toward people who choose to live in the ‘burbs – I wouldn’t say they’re all mediocrities or anything, necessarily. I’m sure some very smart and talented people may be found there.

It’s the suburbs – or most of them – themselves that I just don’t get. I personally don’t understand the appeal of living in housing tract with people who are all pretty much my same race, income level, age cohort, etc. Especially in one of those places where the houses literally all look the same – it’s like a late-Capitalist version of Kruschev-era Soviet apartment blocks. And, I mean, there aren’t even any whitetail deer, coyotes, owls, black bears, etc., to encounter.

So I basically think that (most) suburbs are aesthetic, cultural, and ecological disasters, but I should stop holding forth, I suppose, before I come off as a moralizer. Who the f*ck am I, Wendell Berry?

Yeah, I do remember deer traipsing through our yard in Olympia WA, on occasion; it’s a small city and in close proximity to a lot of forest, though. I didn’t realize there were coyotes hanging out in the suburbs; I’d be interested to know how it effects their behavior, what they’re eating, etc. (Housecats?)

It’s an indisputable fact that you’ve got extremely little biodiversity going on in your average housing tract, though, as compared to the remaining wilderness areas that haven’t been given over to agriculture or suburban sprawl.

The popup ad on the side is from EasyHealthOptions.com, with a headline advertising a poll on the question Should parents be forced to vaccinate their kids?

The hilarious thing is the illustration, which shows a cute tyke lying on his belly as a white-coated figure injects him in the butt — through his diaper!

Which I’m sure is nicely sterile. Hopefully it’s just a bad photoshop job …

I presume you’ve had that water tested, since most well water is naturally high in fluoride.

Now that you mention it, Calli Arcale #133, I really don’t know the status of it. It is a community well piped out amongst extended family. I think you may have a pretty good point as that water is incredibly ‘hard’ and I’ve witnessed two instances where mineral scale has built up to, and shorted out the heating element. In one case, the white flakes had built all the way to the top element (the bottom one being long past disconnected). I was under the impression that it took less than ten years to become so messed up. I would still expect calcium fluoride over industrial waste from China — But, who knows? Perhaps some spilled off a barge there.

I don’t really go out of my way to truck back water but I have taken to filling up the empty Crystal Springs containers. The simple fact is that the water, though maybe not the very best, does not give me acid reflux in the morning like what has long-happened immediately upon drinking out of the tap here; Particularly if I’d over imbibed’ alcohol the previous evening. There is sometimes a strange smell that reminds me of mothballs/naphthalene.

Geology is funny; There is the ‘fresh’ water well that will cloud up after a heavy rain though there are also ‘sulfur’ wells in the same general area. Those do stink but also still agree with me in the morning.
————————————————
“what you’ll find in toothpaste these days isn’t stannous fluoride but sodium fluoride”

The active ingredient in Sensodyne® Repair & Protect, stannous fluoride, builds a repairing layer over the vulnerable areas of your teeth

https://us.sensodyne.com/products/repair-protect-toothpaste.aspx
———————————
One thing I have been doing wrong for many years is to scrub the teeth with baking soda immediately upon vomiting — This obviously has contributed to ‘cupping’.

I am rather ashamed of myself for allowing this to happen; I just never looked with a mirror behind those front teeth even though I recognized accellerated reduction in height.

Thinking back, I have caught myself from time to time having a tendancy to lightly sort of rub that area with wet snuff that had gotten back behind the teeth and on the toung. I don’t recall ever doing that until I went ‘upper decker’.

I also strongly suspect that my windmill-chasing folly of folic vs. folate contributed as I was breaking the capsules and taking little doses at a time (Well, the stuff is expensive!).

I was chasing it down with milk but I suppose it is possible it was ‘lingering’ on the toung which was constantly rubbing the back of the teeth as it went arount adjusting the ball of snuff when driving.

What kind of blind spot I’ve had to discount the ‘acid’ part?

I was also doing that with the C-complex and actually did become concerned over it’s acidity. Unfortunately, the dang brand only comes as a bulk powder now. More unfortunately, all the empty capsules I saved while messing up my teeth have gone walkabout somewhere and I keep procrastinating trying to just buy them; It just irks me that empty capsules there are sometimes more pricey than buying them the same size stuffed with crap.
—————————————————

Does anybody know how to find out the various ‘caustic’ potential of some of these various powders?

(6S)-5-Methyltetrahydofolic acid
food derived C-complex
niacin
thiamin
riboflavin

They are clever and resourceful animals, coyotes, so I guess I am not surprised. They had a habit of preying on pets where I grew up as well, actually. I was back home visiting family this past winter, and my brother told a story which I actually did not remember, oddly enough – I guess I was too little. We used to have rabbits when I was tiny, and apparently I had a favorite gray, floppy-eared, patient one that I used to pack around as a toddler. Coyotes got into the rabbit house and made quick work of all of them, and there were rabbit pieces everywhere. I suppose I am glad I do not remember.

They have as much right to get by as a species as any other, though.

@LW and KayMarie:

There are a lot of places, actually, that were/are towns in their own right which have ended up becoming “suburbs” of larger nearby cities, which are different from the type of bedroom communities and housing tracts I’m thinking of. (Actually, a lot of neighborhoods within big cities were originally towns which were annexed at some point, too.)

@JP – there are coyotes in Bellevue. We suspect my mom’s cat who wandered off to die of cancer met one, I’ve seen them within a couple blocks

@Emma Crew:

Oh boy, you live on Mercer Island? I provisionally take back all the horrible things I’ve ever said about the place. It’s my own classism, I suppose.

It’s a shame about people abandoning bunnies. I always wonder what possesses people to abandon their pets; if I had the time, the stability, and the proper digs to do it, I’d be taking them in myself. Speaking anecdotally, coyotes will definitely eat cats, and small dogs as well. Our old Australian Shepard/Border Collie mix managed to die of old age, though.

Mercer Island sporadically has deer – they SWIM to get here (though I love the mental image of them crossing the I-90 bridge via the bike lane…).

This reminds me of the opening credits of the TV show Northern Exposure, which I liked watching reruns of as a kid. (I vaguely remember it being a primetime show, also.) You know, the moose walking through town. My first Zen teacher, from when I was in college, was originally from Brooklyn, and used to compare Olympia to the town in that show, which sort of made me giggle. I imagined once or twice taking her back to my home “town,” which was really a lot more comparable.

I think I’ve tried to make it clear that I’m not passing judgment on the particular people who live in the suburbs. We are all quite different and quite a lot alike, when it comes down to it.

They may not still be abandoning rabbits on the Microsoft campus, but my spouse sees them there fairly regularly.

capnkrunch #120:
“I remember a little bit ago the topic of nurses being prone to woo came up and PGP made some really offensive (both about women and nurses in general) comment”

I missed that particular spat, but I feel I must, as a recently retired UK-ian nurse with many years experience of supervising student nurses here, point out that training in critical thinking and assessment of evidence in UK schools of nursing leaves a lot to be desired and is one of the aspects of our nurse training which should really be tightened up.

Indeed I have over the years met a number of fellow nurses who appeared to be proud of not understanding anything scientific, falling back on the old “natural and holistic”, touchy-feely mantra…

Anti-vaxxers heads will be exploding next week. Law and Order SVU’s latest ripped-from-the-headlines episode features a bevy of Google PhDs trying to defend their decision not to vaccinate (and lie about it) amid a measles outbreak that threatens Benson’s son.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7FwE9gyCN6M

Yeah, I was talking the cinematography of the town near me. Honestly it looks like someone built the town to be the movie set for the next Stepford movie.

FWIW, although you will still say it is just stereotyping and you’ve never seen a place that in anyway fits any of the stereotypes the suburb I grew up in fit the extremely homogenous stereotype person wise (although it was at the time they seemed to feel the need to create some architectural variety). There were a few outliers but essentially we had almost no kids on free lunch, 99.99% of us were white, our rich kids weren’t even the extremely rich as they all lived two suburbs and a school district over near the mall of expensive designer stores. 98% of us went on to college right out of high school (but I will say all the learning challenged went on the short bus to the special school so that probably helped our stats). Yeah, the people in the houses had differences in personality, but ye gods you could be three standard deviations from the mean on most measures and anyplace else you’d be indistinguishable from the mean.

Didn’t help that that ‘burb got built right around the time a very large company moved into town and half of my neighbors all worked at the same place as my Dad. Which is why I thought car pooling was mainstream and normal way before most people ever heard of it. Just seemed silly to have a string of cars all going to the exact same place all at the exact same time.

And like I said, and will say again. There are lots of ‘burbs where you didn’t have a city planner who needed every building built to be stylistically identical or where you have socioeconomic and ethnic diversity. Just there are enough of those ‘burbs that I, personally have either lived in or near that I can see where that stereotype comes from and can admit I, personally, actually fit the stereotype in a lot of ways.

Not saying you, personally, ever saw one, or live that life, but I recognize the places I’ve lived in or near that fit it all too well.

@ LW:

Don’t you see that it was a joking exaggeration riffing off of a stereotype we’ve heard here? I thought citing Stepfordisms would be too obvious.

But there is reality underneath – in that suburbs originally were planned around families with small children and one commuter parent. Places like these usually aren’t the best places for women in less traditional roles. Sometimes types of community reflect an underlying political or social direction IN GENERAL ( see wiki— Red vs Blue)

And seriously, do you think that someone with graduate degrees in a social science would believe in such a black-and-white picture of attitudes and lifestyle ?

-btw- I could have mentioned a 2012 political fact that people who voted for Obama were more likely to live in counties with a particular home décor store whilst those who voted for the opposition were more likely to have a particular restaurant in their county ( the so-called Great Crate and Barrel/ Cracker Barrel Divide). Or that liberals chose smaller homes in or near cities while conservatives prefered larger homes in the outlying exurbs. There are loads of data like this, ask Rachel Maddow. Trends don’t mean that every single person fits one specific pattern.

JP

I didn’t realize there were coyotes hanging out in the suburbs; I’d be interested to know how it effects their behavior, what they’re eating, etc. (Housecats?)

For one thing, Urban Coyotes are usually solitary. They are the main reason why small dogs are so rare at the pound. I would expect that garbage is large part of their diet.

Where I live and work, the problem a couple years ago was wandering groups of feral turkeys. I’d much rather have foxes. Well, we do, but we rarely see them. The turkeys get up in your face.

Denice,

And we shouldn’t forget the now nearly ubiquitous urban/ suburban foxes ( see Krebiozen’s avatar ‘kitty’).

We seem to have only one local urban fox at present, but s/he is the healthiest I have ever seen, with a big bushy brush. I have on occasion had to remove dead foxes from the road and people’s gardens. I am glad it’s just foxes repossessing the city here, and not coyotes or bears. Polar bears are the worst in that regard, I believe, in terms of attacking and eating humans.

We have a long, narrow park that follows a small river ( for about 10 miles ) which empties into the larger one: originally it was 5 or 6 small parks that merged by the completion of a bicycle path/ walkway.
Its woods seem to attract various fauna- unbelievably, I once saw a very large stag standing on the railroad tracks next to it.” He lives HERE?”

There are foxes near an over-priced residential tower and at least one person I know FEEDS them expensive kitteh food. Of course there are feral cat colonies as well.
This is right in the middle of high density residential housing and various shopping districts.

@shay:

I used to live in the country – I mean, like, for real – but not anymore. There are nice things about it, but there are also a lot of reasons why I left. We did have a store (sort of a general store) and a tavern within walking distance, but one generally made the drive to town to buy groceries.

I live in a medium-sized college town now. It suits me well enough, although I do wish there was an affordable grocery store within walking distance. Buying groceries by bus is kind of a hassle.

@Denice:

I am disappoint. I never really see anything around here except birds, chipmunks, and squirrels, although the latter can get so big I have mistaken them for cats.

^ Actually, my country bona fides are about a mile long; see, for instance, my great-grandfather’s obituary.

I live in a town where, if you drive out to visit me, don’t ask for the (my last name) place. No one will know what you are talking about. And if you ask for the (spousal unit’s last name) place, they’ll send you to his brother’s house because that’s where his parents lived for 30 years.

You have to ask for the old Clark place, regardless of the fact that the Clarks haven’t lived here since 1987.

At any rate, social scientists DO look at dimensions like rural/ urban ( as well as 900 others/ income, education, race. gender etc) to explain how people think and feel about a variety of topics. Of course, this doesn’t tell us much about individuals but it can instruct us about general attitudes of a majority or plurality in specific locales.

So who uses this?
Political candidates and companies who sell diverse products. In discussing attitudes, these are not restricted to the purely political but encompass societal measures as well. Individuals might use of these general trends ( which might be thought of as stereotypes) to understand how MOST people in a particular place would react to a particular person or issue. Candidates tailor these messages accordingly. For example, I know people who are gay/ lesbian or part of an interracial couple who avoid specific areas of the US and particular countries as places to vacation. They don’t want any flack- and they’re smart enough to understand that not everyone is these places is ‘like that’ but enough are to ruin a planned trip that costs them money.

Ideas like ‘red and blue’ touch upon many of these topics ( see wikip—), so I might ask are people REALLY so different? In certain aspects, probably so. Countries like the US seem, to me at least,, to be in a minor civil war arguing about the role of government, the nature of economic controls and which personal values should rule over all people. There are – at least- two different worldviews and often, not a lot of compromise.

This is right in the middle of high density residential housing and various shopping districts.

I live on the backside of a certain large hillside sign displaying the industrial heritage of the city. Amidst the dense commercial and residential structures, the hill itself is full of possums, rabbits, raptor birds hunting for prey, and coyotes. I stepped outside of the house a few nights ago and stood on my porch to film the sounds of the coyotes howling right across the street – with the thoroughfare traffic at my back. It’s oddly quite cool to be at such a dividing line.

The deer are a big problem, though. They have no fear of humans. We need more mountain lions.

The deer are a big problem, though. They have no fear of humans. We need more mountain lions.

I really, really wanted to get a tattoo of a mountain lion a couple years back, but I decided I did not want to put up with people making “cougar” comments/jokes for the rest of my life. Maybe some day the stupid usage will fade and I can get the tattoo.

I know where Richmond is!
And I think I know where Emma means…

-btw-
Several years ago, I visited Monterey and near the lighthouse ( and golf course) was a sign warning about the
mountains lions ( *los gatos*) recently seen in the vicinity.
But I didn’t see any.

My area has its share of raptors. Some are birds.

@Vicki – The area between 148th and 520 just south of 40th, now all full of Microsoft, used to be Eddie Bauer HQ and a bunch of vacant property. There were HUNDREDS of rabbits there. When I was feeling particularly glum, I’d sometimes go just to see the bunnies, there were always several to be seen at any given time. When Microsoft got ready to build there, a group actually rounded up as many of them as they could, neutered them, and took them to some farmland further east, if memory serves (it was 10 years ago, maybe more). I’m sure they missed some, though, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find them all through the area.

Several years ago, I visited Monterey and near the lighthouse ( and golf course) was a sign warning about the
mountains lions ( *los gatos*) recently seen in the vicinity.
But I didn’t see any.

Well, they are nocturnal, and don’t exactly go to great efforts to make their presence known. If they are active in the daytime and hanging around humans, it’s a bad sign, actually.

My area has its share of raptors. Some are birds.

Are some of them DINOSAURS?

Oh, wait. Same thing.

So she wanted “freedom” from vaccines and expected the rest of society to just magically make everything okay and rescue her from the slightest inconvenience for a decision SHE unilaterally made. Even if a contagious disease breaks out at the school, somehow the school is supposed to just take care of it somehow without bugging her or anything, even though her kid is unvaccinated and at risk.

justthestats: “Sociology research: how does that work?”

As far as I can tell, it’s made up on the spot, since a lot of poll results don’t actually correlate with how the population behaves. Or bear any vague resemblance to how a place voted, accesses medical care, etc. It’s also based on unjustifiable optimism.

I literally facepalmed when I read that. There is a whole lot more to sociology then just reading what the latest Gallop poll says. For that matter, sociologists have ways of measuring how much reality varies from what people report on opinion polls.

Here’s a few links for you:
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/sciences/sociology/sociological-research-methods/sociological-research-designs-methods
http://sociology.about.com/od/Research-Methods/

I am curious are you for forced vaccination?
The Varicella vaccine side effects are the following: transverse myelitis, shingles as well as GBS.
Is it s a big deal if a kid gets chickenpoxs?? Not usually, but is it a big deal if the child gets one of these side effects yes.
The incidence of shingles is higher now with the vaccine available than it was before the vaccine came out..
Do you even know why that is? Because the elderly are not being exposed to the children who have chickenpox anymore….when the elderly are exposed to chickenpox it acts as a natural vaccine against shingles, without that exposure there is now a higher rate of shingles.
The incidence of autism has increased dramatically since 1970 which was 1:10,000. It is now 1:162 and increasing do you not think this is related at all the newer vaccines?? Or any environmental factors than please enlighten me on what is increasing this I would love to know.
Autism increasing is due to the increase of heavy metals (mercury for one is in many vaccines)

Dr. Wolfson, is that you?

@Arizona ND, anti-vaxxers like to ask, “why should my child run any risk whatsoever to maintain herd immunity?”

I will turn that around: why should your child, or indeed any child, suffer the small but real risk of death from chickenpox, just to maintain the immunity of the adults around him?

Arizona ND: “I am curious are you for forced vaccination?”

Who is forcing her to vaccinate her children? She is quite free to send her unvaxed kid to the school as long as there are no active chicken pox outbreaks. It was spelled out on the form she signed.

Only a really sick in the head person would want to have a child get sick just to avoid a shingles vaccine. I got a shingles vaccine, there was nothing to it. Go get one yourself and stop encouraging parents to make sure their kids get sick.

In addition to the integrative cardiologist Wolfson, there’s also a Wolfson in AZ who’s an ND

. . . there’s also a Wolfson in AZ who’s an ND

That would be an error – he’s in SoCal

*nebbermind*

From the CDC “Many people do not remember having varicella; however, approximately 99.5% of people born in the United States who are 40 years of age and older have been infected with wild-type VZV. As a result, all older adults in the United States are at risk for herpes zoster”.
http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/hcp/clinical-overview.html

The adult chickenpox / shingles argument is the one used for not giving the vaccine as standard in the UK, but some people are wondering whether the real reason is the fear of vaccines for children stirred up by the antivaxers. Since you can now get the shingles vaccne here when you’re seventy it does seem a weirdly circular argument.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/chickenpox-vaccine-questions-answers.aspx#routineschedule

http://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2014/may/15/real-reason-british-public-chickenpox-vaccine-shingles

Do you even know why that is? Because the elderly are not being exposed to the children who have chickenpox anymore….

Some people have the balls to get a fυcking booster shot should such a situation arise (see: diphtheria) rather than whining like stuck pigs that not enough children are falling ill to obviate that inconvenience.

Rather than expecting a degree of protection against shingles by exposing yourself to chicken pox from deliberately non vaccinated children, you should consider the shingles vaccine:

http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2025.pdf

By the way accupuncture and homeopathy are bullshit, neither will help your bell end get better Narad, you just gotta stop rubbing it better!!

Johnny:

No one dies from chicken pox, that’s bull$h!t.

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24954057:

In 2013 chickenpox resulted in 7,000 deaths globally – down from 8,900 in 1990.

If ignorance was bliss, you’d be euphoric.

Global death is not the issue, numbskull. Death from anything has a relationship with GDP. If we used global death as a caveat for all mortality……………… it is a bullshit stat.

I am more concerned about Narad going blind…………

Get Narad a box of tissues – its overwhelming

For the UK:
http://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/chickenpox-varicella

Very occasionally the disease results in death, but the number of deaths in the UK is low (an average of around 20 a year).

1.8 people die globally every second – it’s appauling and it can be stopped by suspended animation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643888/Chickenpox-vaccine-is-bad-for-children.html

chickenpox death, again is about context. the kids that die are not your usual well on minute dead the next type.

just like we were told swine flu was gonna kill us all and didn’t, chicken pox can be marketed as the next big killer when it simply aint. More hyped up bull – oh to sell a vaccine that is the same merrygo round of appeals to emotion and profits for Offits. It’s sicker than the thought of Narad the Knob making hay

Badly nursed and malnourished people die from chicken pox

In that case, Johnny, I will consider your arguments when every single child on the planet is adequately nourished, and every family can afford suitable nursing care when their children get sick, and not before. Right now, you are trying to convince me that we should leave poor children to die so you don’t have to suffer the inconvenience of shingles vaccine.

That might seem plausible to you, since you see your own inconvenience and not the pain of a stranger’s death. But you are as much a stranger to me as that dying child: the only difference is that I know you don’t care about the deaths of strangers. On that basis, I do not conclude that your life, comfort, or convenience are more valuable than theirs.

Sh[]t, sounds like you had a crap doctor, did they put Calomel lotion on the spots?

Oh, I’m sure mercurous chloride would make the pox feel much better. You know why it was used in teething powders, right? No, I didn’t think so.

This appears to be some sort of attempt to salvage the preceding bit of idiocy:

The kids who got sick put medication on the blisters, this used to be salvasan [sic] or mecurial [sic] oxide

Because of course, the natural choice for chickenpox is an antisyphilitic agent, and you got the non-arsenic one wrong to boot, in two different ways.

Just another day in the shockingly stupid life of Philip Hills, Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex.

So you are going to blame the victim. Classy.

It helps to bear in mind that Phildo, in accordance with “classical osteopathy,” doesn’t believe in contagious disease. One can also find this at at least one of his advertising sites (this one also has the bonus of repeating his bizarre misunderstanding of the innate immune system):

Firstly it is important to understand that the human body has a vast array of physiological ‘know how’ focussed on keeping you alive, symptoms of illness are in fact reactions to life events rather than signs of malfunction….

The problem could be an increased intake of toxins, or equally a nutritional deficiency, or even an emotional stress.

No sign of Arizona ND coming back to defend his / her claims, so they must be so good that they stand by themselves.

when the elderly are exposed to chickenpox it acts as a natural vaccine against shingles

This is akin to arguing that “Some elderly people were abused when they were young… and they still suffer from recurring flashbacks… but the flashbacks are less frequent as long as they know that young people today are being abused in the same way. Therefore the abuse must continue in perpetuity.”
With an equal lack of evidence.

Personal attacks on the mother are not relevant. The issue at hand should be that a person who wants to protect their child should be allowed to do so. There is evidence that vaccines can cause harm, so those who refuse vaccinations should be allowed to do so without discrimination. However, there is also evidence that chickenpox can have harmful effects, so those who choose not to vaccinate for the wellbeing of their child, should also choose to prevent infection by keeping their child away from known cases of the disease.

Robyn – What is your view of those parents who choose to protect their children from the harms of vaccines but deliberately expose them to the disease itself?

“Most of the known cases of the disease occur in the unvaccinated.” Julian the soothsayer

Well that’s bull, last years whooping cough epidemic occurred when vaccine uptake according to the CDC was the highest ever.

“This is akin to arguing that “Some elderly people were abused when they were young… and they still suffer from recurring flashbacks… but the flashbacks are less frequent as long as they know that young people today are being abused in the same way. Therefore the abuse must continue in perpetuity.” Herr focktor

Interesting, so that means we will continue the abuse of childhood vaccination because our daddy doctors did it. MMM. Well then they used the bible to sell snake oil, now its pubmed and all those disciples/minions…..

@MoB – I wonder what old Johnny will think when we discontinue to use of OPV / IPV once Polio is eradicated?

#241 JF Not always…. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-whooping-cough-vaccines-are-wearing-off/

@Lawrence,

I wonder what old Johnny will think when we discontinue to use of OPV / IPV once Polio is eradicated?

He’ll think:
– They’re admitting vaccines don’t work!
– Polio didn’t go away, they just renamed it.
– Polio was never that big a deal anyway – practically nobody ever died of it.

herr doktor bimler – Clearly nobody died of diseases that we currently vaccinate against. They died of a failure to maintain proper organ function, as well as failure to achieve sufficient blood oxygenation and flow rate.

That’s why people lived so much longer in the good old days. I mean, duh.

Robyn: “Personal attacks on the mother are not relevant.”

Actually, they are. I suppose they just hit too close to home for you. Anti-vax groups and clusters are almost entirely composed of well-off, college-educated suburban narcissists who don’t understand biology. And unfortunately, they have managed to sabotage immunization rates across the country, and they don’t care. They don’t care about their own kids, they certainly don’t give a darn about the kid with cancer, all they care about is that they produced a kid with no obvious defects and who can go to college, excel in sports, and basically be a living merit badge.

LW: “What I find bewildering about this discussion of suburbs is the certainty that if the outsides of the houses are similar or identical, the people inside must necessarily be identical as well (Stepford wives).”

Have you ever heard of ‘sorting’ or ‘clustering’ where people of the same ideology deliberately look for housing near people who are similar to them?

“Some people have the balls to get a fυcking booster shot should such a situation arise” Narad stop rubbing it.

Julian the CDC made it clear that last years whooping cough epidemic correlated with the highest uptake of whooping cough ever. It also made it very clear that the cuddly anitvaxxer has nothing to do with it because the mythical herd immunity had been reached.

Who gives a toss about spelling, I am not Mr Hill and never have been…………….

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a1.htm

Here it is clear that the whooping cough vaccine is bullshit, even in the CDC’s own scrawl. Mind you they still put the Ronald McDonald caveat at the end ‘of course vaccination is still the best way to ……………..’ For jerks like Julian and Narad that for some reason believe the wordiology a the end more than the facts in the field. Nothing new there – break out the tissues Narad and put something on that frig spot for geez sake!
Even when the vaccine fails it’s still an amazing break through. Why should not ordinary parents see past this shit mist and say fuck you to vaccination? Answers on a post card

Johnny:

Julian the CDC made it clear that last years whooping cough epidemic correlated with the highest uptake of whooping cough ever.

Repeating something does not automatically make it true. Oh, and that link you posted? It dates back to 2012, so I don’t see how it proves that we had a huge epidemic last year, or that DTaP uptake in 2014 was the highest ever.
Either use relevant, up-to-date cites, or admit you are rectally sourcing your “data”.

This site is great, one points out the huge snakeoil hole in vaccine mythology and all someone can do is nark on a typo. Why does it surprise you so that so many people are walking away from opinions like yours? Not Hill, not even bumpy

Who cares what year it was, the whooping cough vaccine is bullshit and they are still giving it out. Getting picky over numbers isn’t gonna magik it back into a goody event – unless that is you are a vaccine believer – ohh look it works now. Not Mr Hillll.

I, for one, am willing to accept the conclusion that the current pertussis vaccine is not as effective as one might like.

“who cares what year it was”
“getting picky over numbers”

Thank you, Johnny, for demonstrating so beautifully how vitally important the truth actually is to you. 😉

Julian, how many people have died from Chicken pox in the US and Uk in the last 10 years?

You mean, since the introduction of routine vaccination against chicken pox? Far fewer than died in the years prior to its introduction. That was your point, right–how the vaccine has effectively reduced the incidence of infection, hospitalizatiosn and deaths due to chicken pox?

I can smell the fear in the continual need to moderate

Let’s see….

Who cares what year it was, the whooping cough vaccine is bullsh[]t

Poor, stupid Philip Hills.

Come on political pig what about vaccine induced narcolepsy then – 800 kids have that now

With hundreds of cases in the UK! Oh, wait.

Who cares what year it was

Just like with the “new (2009) NICE guidelines,” right, Phildo?

Short term memory issues? He certainly can’t remember that if he uses a four-letter word it automatically puts him in moderation.

Hep B:
*The side effects of hepatitis B is a possibility of getting cancer, as well as a chronic infection of the liver. BUT unless you child is running a needle field, or lives in China or Africa the chance of getting Hep B is very slim! There is less than a 2 percent chance of a mother who has hep B transferring it to her child in the utero.
*The vaccine contains aluminum, yeast, and formaldehyde (Comvax/Recombivax). The CDC says this vaccine is contraindicated if you have a yeast allergy, but surely aluminum and formaldehyde don’t cause any serious potential health risk either correct?

*Before the vaccine came out there was less than 10 percent of children that got affected. There is now a 0.001% incidence. Which many might think is good, however the SIDE EFFECTS OF THE HEP B ARE HORRIBLE! There have been 17,497 hospitalizations, injuries and deaths from the vaccines in 90’s as well as 73 deaths in children under 14 years old in the 90’s from the vaccine. In 96 there were 1080 adverse reactions in children under 1, and 47 deaths. There have been 60,000 adverse reactions to the vaccine causing autoimmune conditions and demyelinating conditions. The following conditions are included: Lupus, arthritis, RA, and GBS Shaw et al (1988); Tuohy (1989); Khamaisi (2004). Bells Palsy, transverse myelitis, and MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS are also side effects of this vaccine Harvard School of Public Health (2004); WHO (1990); Nedler (1993).

Ingredients in Vaccines:
*Aluminum (mcg) is in:
DTaP (Daptacel 330 mcg, Tripedia 170 mcg & Infranrix 625 mcg)
Hep B (Recombivax 250 mcg & Engerix-B 250 mcg)
Prevnar (125)
PedVaxHIB (225 mcg)
Hep A (Vaqta 250 mcg & Havrix 250 mcg)
Gardasil (225 mcg)
Pentacel (HiB, DTaP, Polio 300 mcg)
Pediarix (HBV, DTaP, Polio 300 mcg)
I will let you do the research on how aluminum is harmful, since I am just a ND.

Varicella:

According to the CDC in 2003, there were 8 deaths (6 children) who died from the chickenpox.
Outbreaks are simnifically HIGHER in schools that have a high vaccinated population for chickenpox, but I guess the vaccine still works perfect.
Before the vaccine was introduced there was 25: 1,000,000 deaths (including adults, so not just children..) (Seaward et al. JAMA 2004).
Most of the deaths that occur from chickenpox are people over the age of 20, so once again not a child. (Meyer et al, J Infect Dis 2000;182:383-90)

@ Krebiozen
You stated:
That’s odd, there’s no mention of transverse myelitis or GBS as adverse events associated with the varicella vaccine on the CDC page that deals with the vaccine.

Look above and I listed the references for this information. You are right it is not on the CDC website, nor is a lot of information, for the obvious reason that they are biased and are pitching vaccines!

You also stated:
No it isn’t. Practically no children’s vaccines have contained any thimerosal for the past decade or more, yet autism incidence has not fallen, and large well-designed studies find no link. I’ll leave you with some conclusions of this paper (PDF) published by the AAP in 2013

*Now, you are saying that thermosal is not used anymore in vaccines, but you are wrong. The CDC states that it is still used in the multi dose flu vaccine, which I am sure your child has. Now of course, the CDC says that this ingredient is not harmful, but yet they took it out of several vaccines that it used to be in, why is that if it is so good for you?

@Chris
You stated:
Only a really sick in the head person would want to have a child get sick just to avoid a shingles vaccine. I got a shingles vaccine, there was nothing to it. Go get one yourself and stop encouraging parents to make sure their kids get sick.

*Good for you, go get your children vaccinated, but you need to gather all of your facts first instead of just listening to one persons view or the CDC.

BUT unless you child is running a needle field, or lives in China or Africa the chance of getting Hep B is very slim! There is less than a 2 percent chance of a mother who has hep B transferring it to her child in the utero.

Moving of the goalposts duly noted.

Before the vaccine came out there was less than 10 percent of children that got affected. There is now a 0.001% incidence. Which many might think is good, however the SIDE EFFECTS OF THE HEP B ARE HORRIBLE! There have been 17,497 hospitalizations, injuries and deaths from the vaccines in 90’s as well as 73 deaths in children under 14 years old in the 90’s from the vaccine.

See above. Nothing like a purported naturopath demonstrating a complete inability to reason its way out of a wet paper bag.

Ken@285: Which is a lot more aluminum than in a vaccine. Does drowning mean that drinking water is a bad idea?

And yet, the sole point of aluminum in vaccines is to ‘adjuvate’ inflammation; So, a *little dab ‘ll do ya*?

Two possible factors for the increase of VAS at this time were the introduction in 1985 of vaccines for rabies and feline leukemia virus (FeLV) that contained aluminum adjuvant, and a law in 1987 requiring rabies vaccination in cats in Pennsylvania. In 1993, a causal relationship between VAS and administration of aluminum adjuvanted rabies and FeLV vaccines was established through epidemiologic methods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine-associated_sarcoma

Arizona ND: “but you need to gather all of your facts first instead of just listening to one persons view or the CDC.”

I have gathered lots of information, and not just from the CDC. It happens that the varicella vaccine was developed in Japan, and there is lots of data from there. Also the varicella vaccine never contained thimerosal nor aluminum.

You are an ND, which around here is defined as “Not a Doctor.” Further, you decided to go on about other vaccines (Hep B), by cutting and pasting from NVIC. Not a bright move.

Also, you seem to have reading comprehension problems. My kids got chicken pox a yea before the vaccine was available, one was only six months old.

You are still an ignorant sadistic child hater.

JGC: “You mean, since the introduction of routine vaccination against chicken pox? Far fewer than died in the years prior to its introduction. That was your point, right–how the vaccine has effectively reduced the incidence of infection, hospitalizatiosn and deaths due to chicken pox?”

Not to mention the vaccine has a positive economic impact (parents won’t have to use sick days to stay with kids) and more importantly it helps lower the misery index. I remember having chicken pox- it was one of the few times in my life when I wished for non-existence. (I wasn’t exactly suicidal, I just didn’t want a body.)

Short term memory issues?

I’ve also wondered about state-dependent learning, but this one has become such an incoherent* standby of late that I’m unwilling to rule out the possibility that he’s doing it deliberately so that he can immediately screech about “censorship” that has usually vanished by the time most people even notice the presence of his cluster ejaculations.

Anyway, since Phildo is demonstrably unable to get his shіt together by his lonesome, this is what he’s been attempting to “refer” to:

“ELIZABETH WEISE [USA Today]: Hi, thanks for taking my question. You say the rates of illness are going up. You say they are cyclical. Is this part of the cycle or is it related to efforts by some to encourage people not to be vaccinated?

“ANNE SCHUCHAT: Yes, thank you for that question. We think there are many things going on. Pertussis is a cyclical disease [i.e., compartmental models apply] and the vaccines are not perfect. So even with increasing vaccination coverage, we expect to still have cycles. We think there are some unusual epidemiologic features that have caused us to launch a more detailed investigation in Washington State. Waning of immunity or a weakening of the time or waning of protection over time may be part of the story that we’re seeing. On the other hand, we know that people who are not vaccinated have about an eight times higher risk of disease than people who are vaccinated [generously]. We know there are places around the country where there are large numbers of people who aren’t vaccinated. However, we don’t think those exemptors are driving this current wave. We think it is a bad thing that people aren’t getting vaccinated or exempting, but we cannot blame this wave on that phenomenon.”

That’s it.

* The comments of Philip Hills, Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex’s reverse-SEO failure, have suggested that he “thinks” there are multiple moderators.

ArizonaNotADoctor:

BUT unless you child is running a needle field, or lives in China or Africa the chance of getting Hep B is very slim!

Given that: Hep B can survive outside the body for two weeks and the blood, urine, saliva and other bodily fluids of Hep B infected children contain infectious levels of Hep B, I’d say hogwash.

There is less than a 2 percent chance of a mother who has hep B transferring it to her child in the utero.

Citation needed.

There have been 17,497 hospitalizations, injuries and deaths from the vaccines in 90’s as well as 73 deaths in children under 14 years old in the 90’s from the vaccine. In 96 there were 1080 adverse reactions in children under 1, and 47 deaths. There have been 60,000 adverse reactions to the vaccine causing autoimmune conditions and demyelinating conditions.

Citation needed, and not from VAERS. Just because an adverse event is reported to VAERS doesn’t mean the vaccine caused it.

Julian @296 -I’ll cite for him

http://www.whale.to/m/incao.html

‘Nuff said.

Some people have the balls to get a fυcking booster shot [for VZV] should such a situation arise (see: diphtheria) rather than whining like stuck pigs that not enough children are falling ill to obviate that inconvenience.

Or as I sometimes put it:
“Granny doesn’t want to risk getting shingles, sweetie – so she’d rather we let you all come down with chickenpox. It’s OK, you’ll only be sick a week or so, and you only have a small chance of dying”

@Johnny

a mythical disease that only existed in Pharma stats

My sick leave balance says otherwise.

it’s win win with vaccines even when it fails. That’s a snake oil charm if ever there was one.

Care to explain why incidence of VPDs plummets whenever most people in a given area are vaccinated then? That doesn’t sound like snake oil to me.

Still not Mr Hill and never was

Will you ever be?

800 kids with narcolepsy

Or in the Beeb version,
75 children aged four to 18 who developed narcolepsy about the time Pandemrix was rolled out. Of these, 18 had received Pandemrix.
Eighteen… 800… near enough, right?

“We know there are places around the country where there are large numbers of people who aren’t vaccinated. However, we don’t think those exemptors are driving this current wave. …” Anne Schatcat.

Thanks for that Narad, so according to your quote the officials are telling us non vaxxers do not drive disease outbreak waves. Well we all know that, nothing new here, you gotta stop frigging and writing – you are posting gems. However hard you try, and I know it upsets you to be wrong, I am not Mr Hill and never have been. You, on the other hand are still a wanker and until it finally falls off you always will be. You must totally hate children to keep insisting they join the national autistic program.

Johnny, are you making stuff up again? Or did you use the wrong name? I can’t find that comment in any link that Narad has posted here.

I am not Mr Hill and never have been. You, on the other hand are still a wanker and until it finally falls off you always will be.

Phildo, I don’t think I’m the only one who has noticed your sudden, obsessive interest – to the point of idiotic tedium – in masturbation.

Does this have anything to do with your at least twice resorting to insulting your wife and her profession? It’s not as though you have the slightest chance of ever anonymously getting away with your routinizined script again, and there’s no sign of any executive function going on between your ears, so a parsimonious model leads directly to a need for some unifying, animal principle.

In this argument it was quite likely that Mrs Donovan signed the form from the school without reading it, and now she is mad with herself for doing it and she is trying to find fault with the school because she is an anti-vax parent. To most anti-vax parents other children whose parents are trying to do everything they can to prevent their children from getting sick, does not exist.
I feel these anti-vax parents are just self-centered, I mean if you can avoid your child from any possible suffering wouldn’t you do it ? I myself was vaccinated as a baby and I am very thankful for my parents for doing it. A vaccine shot reduces the risk of a child or even an adult getting any of these diseases.
u15031642

Hey Ann, you can choose to ignore known facts or bury your head up Narad’s poo shute, that is your choice and I commend you for it. How about asking Narad why he can’t watch a proper doctor tell us that spraying kids with DDT is not treatment.

I’d love to hear his views on this documentary – actually what do you think, or don’t you?

Still not Mr Hilllll and never was

Oh, dear, Phildo, is your blood sugar already tanking from your sub-baby-food brekkers?