Autism One: As quacky as it ever was

I still have trouble believing that people could possibly think any treatment involving bleach is a good idea. I can only imagine they disengage their brains first.
Tesla woo, on the other hand, well it’s usually a good sign to suggest that someone has no background whatsoever in either physics or electronic engineering…

Did you really say, “the International Quantum University for Integrative Medicine in Honolulu“. If they’re hiring, I promise to believe in quantum integrative medicine

Like JP above, I’m glad to see Seneff there. The more she associates with the nutcases the sooner MIT might actually make a statement about her pseudoscience.

I work with chlorine dioxide for a living as part of water treatment systems. It is definitely not safe for kids or parents or any environment where living things exist.

You mean how semiotic entropy causes autism?

Ha, this is indeed perhaps my favorite Seneff moment, but it doesn’t seem to show up in the blurb about her talk. (Or the “panel” she’s later on.)

I got a giggle out of how she decided to put ALL THE LETTERS after her name: Dr. Stephanie Seneff, BS, MS, EE, PhD.

And although there is sadly no mention of semiotic entropy, I have to wonder if she isn’t getting into sun-gazing:

I will propose simple lifestyle changes that can protect your children from autism, including an organic whole-foods diet, abundant sun exposure to the skin and eyes, and an altered vaccine schedule.

A dispassionate assessment […] Sayer Ji

From what I have read of Mr Ji, I doubt the “dispassionate” part.

[Kerri Rivera] is the author of “Healing the Symptoms Known as Autism.”

An homeopath worrying about treating “Symptoms”? Isn’t something only nasty mainstream physicians do?

“How can this be bad if people are healing and nobody’s dying?”

We have a similar argument for vaccines. The alt-med crowd don’t find it sufficient.

Completely OT, but since mebbe last Frida, pretty much every time I leave an Insolent page open to click on another open tab (Chrome, XP Pro), the page self-navigates to this. Just me?

The comments on the NBC bleach article seem to be about what we’d have expected, with lonely skeptics addressing loud and “proud” proponents of child abuse.

I so do miss lilady’s fierce advocacy for special needs children and empathetic, yet factual, smackdowns of woo-besotted parents who’ve been suckered in to demeaning, depersonalising, and abusing their children rather than getting on with it.

A few other presenters/ presentations caught my eye..

– Seneff isn’t the only ex-scientist to stoop to this level- Mikovits and Tomljenovic will appear as well.
– David Lewis will continue perseverating about poo
– Raphael Kellman will probably carry on about the gut/brain
– John Gray will discuss Venus and Mars or something
– keynotes will be Fearless Parent as Orac mentioned and FOCUS For Health ( ne Focus Autism) Barry Segal’s project
-TMR will appear and host a LOUNGE ( with, alas, no lounge acts but perhaps a lizard or two) with alcohol. TMs will talk about avoiding dying and give writing instruction.
– there will be a marijuana discussion
– VaxTruth presents 4 of their dissemblers
– there are book signings galore and two films: BOUGHT and Trace Amounts and the perpetrators responsible for their initiation and distribution
– there will be a red carpet for photo ops prior to the Saturday night gala ( you read that correctly)
-INTERESTINGLY a few people will not be selling their swill- I don’t see any AoA creatures but for Heckenlively- who wrote a book with Mikovits . Jake will not appear.
I wonder why

Unfortunately I cannot be a spy in the house of woo ( too distant, I use my real name, I have to work Thursday and am already booked for Saturday) but I really and truly hope that a devoted minion with a ‘nym who lives nearby will go and report for us. We can all use the hilarity. PLEASE….

Being a responsible person, I should issue a warning to any who might intrepidly wade into Gamondes’ miasmic biofilm of free floating imagery and barking ideation: it proceeds from ridiculous to horrendous.
Not suitable for work or sensitive individuals unless they are trained professionals in the healing arts

abundant sun exposure to the skin and eyes

It’s not bleach enemas, but it sure ain’t healthy…

Mike says (#3),

Is that Orac’s lovely tile and rubber ducky family?

MjD’s response,

Possibly, the black mold growing on the bottom edge of the wall further indicates that it’s Orac’s place.

Seriously, in my opinion, Autism One is a fine organization.

@Michael J. Dochniak

Seriously, in my opinion, Autism One is a fine organization.

And why do you think that?

Electrical ground currents occur when the utility’s wire is overloaded and returns back to the substation “off the wire,” traveling through the earth conducted by soil, water, plumbing lines.

In many situations, 100% of current “returns” in earth ground, by design. It’s been that way since people started shoving electrons through wires to houses. Has he never been in a rural area where much of the power distribution is on a single overhead conductor? The bulk of the current flows more or less directly under the overhead wire, due to those pesky laws of nature regarding current flow and magnetic fields.

Cathodic protection systems would send this dolt in hysterics.

Just had a look at the site capital Johnny linked to.

EMF stands for Electromagnetic fields

Um, no. It stands for electromotive force.

If I had a bunch of money to burn, I’d buy one of the blatantly fraudulent hologram things from http://www.safespaceprotection.com (to use Narad’s method in the manner of promotion of P’Hills) and whisk it off to the EMI/RFI test chamber at the local testing lab, just to prove it does nothing.

People who are this ignorant are delivering health advice?! Low johnny and Theo have some serious competition.

Electrical ground currents occur when the utility’s wire is overloaded and returns back to the substation “off the wire,” traveling through the earth conducted by soil, water, plumbing lines.

It must have quite an, um, powerful instinct to return upstream to its spawning grounds.

@kfunk937 #14 – I am glad you asked that. It is happening to me constantly and I am using a Kindle, so it is Amazon’s tweaked version of an Android OS. I have been considering looking for an antivirus for this thing in case some weird bug got downloaded.

Although I must agree with Orac that the photoshop job is actually decent I can’t say the same for the design qualities of her Meisterwerken ( is that the correct plural?) which are abysmally atrocious.( and I did work in advertising)

I am vacillating between two hypotheses regarding her production of these epics;
– she is angling for a book deal with Skyhorse: an illustrated volume fit for thinking coffeetables everywhere
– she has blown a head gasket in her PFC

Considering how much time she must have put into creating these pictorial monstrosities and assembling her scavenger hunt style of conspiracy-a-minute essays,
leads me to go with the latter.

Ooooh -btw- JP’s in a play: probably in Russian or Polish but a play nevertheless.

@ Johnny:

I doubt he was asked to participate.
I observe that some of his BFFs are there- Geiers,*pere et fils*, Hooker, the Segals *et compagnie*

Remember the AoA endorsement of the bleach enemas a few months ago with the theory that they were cleaning out intestinal worms?

As (IIRC) Roger Kulp recently noted, even the biomeddlers at ARI have nudged MMS toward the curb.

All they need is a variable phase-inverter to complete the treatment

Regarding these 170 children removed from the autism spectrum, a look at Rivera’s strict criteria for her case series :
http://saulniercamaut.tumblr.com
https://nomorebleach.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/163-children-healed-from-autism-nope
https://nomorebleach.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/kerri-riveras-response-to-163

What in the hell is it with pseudo science connoisseurs and creating childish, immature p-shops of things they don’t like? It comes across as a debate tactic my 3 year old might use.

The great irony is that these people hold a position that is clearly fallacious, and seem oblivious to the self-parody that such graphics communicate.

To me, they scream that they know they can’t win on logic and reason and must go for the over the top emotionalism.

Just unreal to me that a functioning adult would look at those and think they make some sort of cogent argument.

Ok, rant over…

Starting prednisone tomorrow and I must thank all those anti-vaxxers out there. There’s nothing like hearing, “Be especially careful to avoid people with measles or chicken pox as either of those can have very serious consequences while on prednisone.” Thanks loads for making me a hand-sanitizing hermit for however long I’m on this crap.

It’s mind boggling that it hasn’t been banned in the US.

Sure it is. That’s why they all come as a kit you mix together with instructions on how to use it to purify water (wink, wink). And if you find out about someone misusing it, you can report it and CPS might get around to investigating after they’re done with the reports of kids being allowed to play outside.

Johnny quotes: “Electro-pathological energy created by modern technology can also contribute to geopathic stress in the form of high and low frequency energy…”
No standard frequency energy?

What’s this I hear about a cute health condition?

What’s this I hear about a cute health condition?

“I was in bed for a week with acute hepatitis.”

“You lucky dog! They’re both cute, those Hepatitis girls!”

How sad. We had slides and swingsets

How sad. We had slides and swingsets

We had monkey bars.
Watching pissed monkeys falling off their barstools was the highlight of the day.

“How sad. We had slides and swingsets.”
“We had monkey bars.”
We not only had seesaws, we also had circular saws. And a school nurse who doubled as a hand surgeon.

@ EBMOD:

Rant away.

They do go for emotional reactions
but I sincerely wonder if they can self-evaluate to the extent necessary to see how truly bizarre their material is.. she probably thinks that it’s so absolutely brilliant and perceptive that her readers will be overtaken by her profound erudition and knowledge of the world and its nefarious ways.

Jake also pretends to have abilities beyond his fellows/ sisters to see into the hidden meanings of events.

I hear the same crap at PRN.

They drop names of philosophers, literary icons, obscure artists and historical anomalies. They’re trying to prove that they are impossibly intelligent and DESERVE to lead others.

HOWEVER how likely is it that anyone can, without the appropriate education, in this day and age, attempt to criticise entire fieldS like medicine, psychology, education and politics? Even a well-educated, extremely intelligent doctor cannot easily criticise the whole field of medicine. A physicist studies one area of his or her field to be expert. Psychologists are described by their area of study- although all of these professionals do have a general background of their entire fields and the scientific method.

No, I think that this is tarted up gossip and free wheeling speculation masquerading as Something Important by a Smart Person. They depend upon conspiracies to cover their lack of evidence and their own ars-: Gamondes admits that these miscreants’ secrecy erects an impermeable barrier for journalists who seek out the Truth.

Besides the obvious lack of self-criticism and self-regulation illustrated by writers like Gamondes ( or the Prof at TMR), how about the editors who allow their websites to be awash in such drivel on a regular basis?

“Be especially careful to avoid people with measles or chicken pox as either of those can have very serious consequences while on prednisone.”

Stay away from southern California?

Our friend Steven Novella had an excellent post a while back deconstructing “Quantum Neurology”

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/quantum-neurology/

I follow a couple of blogs from mainstream autism researchers,where I am also a regular commenter.One such blog is Manuel Casanova’s Cortical Chauvinism.Dr. Casanova has made a number of blog posts that more or less mirror my own opinion about autism.Pro vaccine,anti neurodiversity.A little over a month ago,Dr.Casanova ran a blog post about his presentation at AutismOne.

In the comments,I asked Dr. Casanova why he,or any serious researcher,would speak at AutismOne,given that they are all about vaccines and pseudoscience.Dr. Casanova replied that he hoped he could influence individuals by presenting them with good science.You can read the exchange here.

http://corticalchauvinism.com/2015/04/10/we-already-know-what-is-happening-to-the-brain-in-autism/

Many of you are also familiar with the AVWOS Facebook group,where I frequently lurk,and occasionally post.The other day the infamous Antivax Troll List was leaked.I posed the same question at the AVWOS.Why post at antivax sites?I received a very similar reply.I’m sorry,but I politely disagree.I don’t believe it is worth the time and effort to post on these sites,which is why I gave up.I had also hoped I could convince the hard cores like the Anne Dachels,that autism with serious medical problems was nothing new so I gave up.Maybe it’s because my health is such,mitochondrial and metabolic disease,that I don’t want to waste any more energy trying to deprogram antivaxers.I leave that to others,but I don’t believe most A-V parents will come around,unless their kid,or some kid they know,gets a vaccine preventable disease.They are too deeply programmed.

Stable Water Clusters?

Vonnegut thought of it first. (Ice9 in Cat’s Cradle)

One day, by the way, I had the honor of meeting Kurt V. and sitting next to him at a talk given by his brother, Bernard Vonnegut, who was a fine scientist and one of the pioneers in the field of atmospheric electricity. Wonderful men, both.

Lucky! I have been a big Vonnegut fan since I was 13 or so. I haven’t read him in a while – I think the last time was when I reread a novel or two of his while living in Krakow a couple years ago – but I have recently had the experience of “coming unstuck in time,” so to speak.

^ His capitol is Chicago.

From Roger Kulp’s extensive and excruciating quote on Stable Water Clusters.*

We are all familiar with the liquid phase and ice, the solid phase, and steam, which is generated when one boils water.

Apparently they consider the word vapour to be too obscure and technical. I quit reading shortly after as I felt my large intestine coiling in preparation to spring up my spinal column and throttle my brain. Although it may just have been an attack of the vapours (as defined by Susan Norfleet).

*this term would make a lot more sense if a blank space and 4 letters were added before the final s.

I think about that essay, in a sort of consoling sense, when I am pining particularly badly for the PNW.

I have a dear friend from Bainbridge who used to wear my woolen suit for Lake Michigan. (Nearly got her foot cut off that way, but so it goes. Not the suit, mind you – that’s since been proved not to be cursed. But it had seen storage in a cedarish dresser when retested. I mean, at worst it caused a different friend to lose the key to his bike lock.)

#14 kfunk937

# 32 Mrs Woo

Ditto and I run Ubuntu on a laptop. No virus found when I ran a scan. However I am getting “Service not found” today, 2015-05-19. Did not and does not appear with Firefox.

Gee, I hope they deliver the hydraneas I ordered.

It’s tha the time more time spent outside (presumably in day time I dnr), the less chance of myopia

Perhaps, just as “The Drinking Man’s Diet” was recycled as Atkins, etc., the Bates Method is no longer getting the citation respect that it deserves.

Some of the best people watching is going to the beach and watching tourists stride forcefully into the water….and then watching them leap back to shore.

Come to think of it, I was stubborn enough to actually swim around in Henderson Inlet for a good long while once – it was really hot out. I was also possibly being macho or something. Something something “I grew up swimming in glacial lakes” something.

Are morphogenetic fields really a thing? Wikipedia makes it sound like it is, but I don’t want to trust anything I learned from the Zero Escape series of video games. I just find it hard to believe that scientific rigor could have been available from the same game that heavily implied that an unmeltable ice mummy thawed out and did mass murder.

So the modern medical approach of prescribing amphetamines, anti psychotics and worse is better than this?

Both approaches are fxxxxd

JP: “In fact, I have never truly swum in saltwater, though I have, of course, been to the ocean. The Pacific is a**-cold all year ’round, and so is the Puget Sound”

I am married to a fellow from Vancouver Island. Just before he became a teenager he was dragged to east Lake Washington suburbia because his widowed mother married someone who lived there. As a young married couple we tried the beaches at Ocean Shores and Long Beach… brrrr and blowing sand gets everywhere!

Then we went up to Vancouver Island to the beaches of his youth: Parksville and Qualicum Beach. Due to being on the Straights of Georgia and protected by the mountains on Vancouver Island, in the summer they are warm and sandy. So this meant when our kids were little we drove north to go to summer beaches.

(by the way, I tried to swim in a pond fed by the Naches River just east of the forest ranger office on HiWay 410 in August/September … brrr… it was pure glacier melt… but it was cool to watch the salmon spawn just a few yards downriver)

I see that in classic charlatan behaviour Wakefield is presented as a fellow of the Royal College of Physicians. Notwithstanding that he is not.

In a similar vein, I have been in a room with both him and his lawyer of the time discussing the meaning of fraud. Wakefield has presented nothing whatsoever evidencing fraud in the CDC paper – no document, no allegation (indeed his source expressly states that reasonable people can disagree about the data presented), indeed nothing to substantiate his defamatory slur.

What a pitiful sight he’s become. I can’t believe that there won’t be at least a handful of intelligent people at the conference who have serious worries about this man.

I can’t believe that there won’t be at least a handful of intelligent people at the conference who have serious worries about this man.

I worry that there won’t even be a handful of intelligent people at the conference.

^^ Then again, given that one posturing blowhard has predictably been radio-silent on the matter, perhaps the “fresh,” “new” entrant on the front could take over his duties.

Dear Johnny (not the proper one),

If by amphetamines you mean methylphenidate, it isn’t and never has been a treatment for ASD. Some bairns have co-morbid ADHD, for which they may be prescribed methylphenidate, if behavioural programmes and parenting advice is ineffective (the NICE guidelines are readily available)…

Anti-psychotics are next to never used with ASD, except on a very few occasions to help reduce a bairn’s distress.

If you look at the history of ASD, diagnoses of the likes of Asperger’s could not have been made before the early ’80s as the term was not coined until then nor the condition defined. Asperger’s work was not available in English until then, around 40 years after he began publishing.

I know first hand that there was much mis-diagnosis going on up until the late ’80s at least, with many folk with ASD being mis-diagnosed as psychotic. I know one consultant psychiatrist who came out of seeing “A Beautiful Mind” complaining that John Nash was mis-diagnosed and was more likely to have Asperger’s than to be psychotic.

Education of staff in MH services about ASD has improved greatly, so we became much better at assessing and diagnosing. Ditto the knowledge of parents and teachers and GPs and the like, so we got more referrals for assessment, which leads inevitably to a rise in diagnoses (I can recall in the mid-90s a senior educational psychologist in South West England denying the existence of ASD, even when confronted with a 16 year old with such obvious classic Kanner type autism that I recognised it within half an hour of being in the bairn’s company).

But let’s not allow some inconvenient facts to get in the way of a good rant, eh?

And how long before I get the usual ad hom response using some “tee hee, look how clever I am!” change to my ‘nym?

@kfunk937 et al.:

This redirect seems to be a known problem, although I haven’t offhand seen any cogent analyses of what’s actually going on.*

The “Site Meter” Javascript is however sitting right at the bottom of page source. I wouldn’t expect the SB “tech staff” to actually do be doing anything about though, especially after arduously updating the “Anti-Spam” plugin** from version 2.2/2.3 to 3.5 in a single bold stroke.

* This may be the best of the bunch: h[]tp://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=16345
** G—le ‘current ye@r’.

@JP and CanonicalRabbit: I’ll see you your Puget Sound and Pacific and raise you a Lake Superior. THAT’S a freaking COLD great lake. As a child of fresh water lakes (the MI does mean Michigan), I dislike salt water also. I have been known to run in and splash around long enough to cool off when at the beach with friends. But I sincerely think those who love salt water swimming have issues…

johnny must have been a speshul snowflake. *I* knew kids with undiagnosed ASD and autism -( and had family members with such – in the 1940’s my mom’s cousin whom I never knew as he died before I was born but the family talked about him and wrote letters) when I was in grade school in the 1960s. Just because they weren’t the most severely afflicted doesn’t mean they weren’t around. And the severely afflicted, as johnny obviously doesn’t recall, were hidden away, either at home or in institutions.

Even in the 1980s, I can recall “abandoned” children – dropped off at the hospital and the parents vanishing. They would end up in homes or foster care. But johnny wouldn’t know about that.

@justthestats

It’s a small step from shoving coffee and bleach up their kids’ rears to shoving a fiber-optic cable up where the sun don’t normally shine.

re Andrew Wakefield at Autism One

He is invited because, for some ungodly reason, ( some) ladies adore him. He brings in paying customers ( notice the price of the ‘Saturday night gala’ where there is a red carpet). He is the maverick genius who inspires them on their own quest for pseudo-scientific fame- he’s the role model for loons intent on littering the internet with their nonsense.

Andy dresses up and swans around as his fans swarm around him. He validates their fantasy-based interpretation of events surrounding their children’s diagnoses. They need him or someone like him. Like TMR, Autism One is group therapy gone wrong where participants lead each other deeper into denial and mal-adaption.

Better yet, alcohol is served.

@Johnny #91

You know, I didn’t see many growing up, either. Of course, we have a school here where any child with “severe” autism (not knowing the proper term, I mean a child totally cut off from their surroundings and other people.) was sent there. There were/are both live-in and day programs available. Kids who are now diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, but are able to function, more or less well in society, were just “that weird kid” in class. Kids in between–not totally in their own world, but with significant disabilities, were shuffled into “Special Ed” with their own classes and buses.

So, 50-odd years ago, it was a combination of seeing fewer acute cases–they were sent away, hearing about fewer acute cases–hey, let’s all hear it for the shame of not having a “normal” kid (argh!) and other cases on the spectrum weren’t labeled as autistic, just “weird” or “retarded”. (“Weird” and “retarded” are not meant to be insulting in any way, just what such children were labeled here historically.)

(As a further aside, I’d never heard of hydrocephalus growing up. Ever. When my psych class took a tour at the school referenced above, there were three children there afflicted with it. Had you mentioned the disease before that tour, I would have said that it must be extremely rare since I’d never heard of nor seen anyone afflicted with it. Personal knowledge/experience will only take you but so far.)

” WebMD Archive

The number of children diagnosed with autism or related disorders has grown at what many call an alarming rate. In the 1970s and 1980s, about one out of every 2,000 children had autism.

Today, the CDC estimates that one in 150 8-year-olds in the U.S. has an autism spectrum disorder, or ASD. This expanded definition refers not only to autism but also to a collection of brain development disorders such as Asperger’s syndrome and a condition known as pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS). Though all the disorders share some symptoms, they are different in other ways, including the timeline of symptoms and the severity, according to the CDC. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/autism-rise

Her Dockfuc, it is harder to spot 1 in 2000, much easier to spot 1 in 150. I god hope you are not a real doctor with math skills like that.

@Chris:

(by the way, I tried to swim in a pond fed by the Naches River just east of the forest ranger office on HiWay 410 in August/September … brrr… it was pure glacier melt… but it was cool to watch the salmon spawn just a few yards downriver)

Yeah, the glacial-fed ponds and lakes are really only fit for swimming during the height of summer, when you can spend half the time lying in the sun before jumping back in. It is a pleasant endeavor nonetheless.

. It is the sheer number that are around now – it cannot just be about better diagnosis.

And it isn’t: it’s also about broadened diagnostic criteria, diagnostic substitution, improved surveillance and changes in reporting practices.

For example, a recent study in Denmark (JAMA Pediatr. 2015;169(1):56-62.) found “Changes in reporting practices can account for most (60%) of the increase in the observed prevalence of ASDs in children born from 1980 through 1991 in Denmark.”

In fact, I have never truly swum in saltwater, though I have, of course, been to the ocean.

I don’t blame you. I’ve pulled no end of sting rays from near where people were swimming, several other critters that wouldn’t care if they killed you, and seen still others that would in fact kill you and eat you, and even some that would do that the other way around.

But other than the sand and the saltwater, I do love fishing in the surf.

I can’t believe that I’m not getting any street cred for actually having resorted to one of these* a full quarter-century ago in order to end a streak of nine failing grades on my transcript and graduate.**

You probably had more support sewn into that suit than they did back in the day.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8412

The women were likewise unsupported.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/5745

Are the vintage bathing suits a thing with the kdis these days or something? I gotta say, it’s a pretty cute look.

Well, it depends on how ‘vintage’ you want to get.
shorpy.com/node/9516

Click on the ‘view full size’ link to embiggen the images.

Proper Johnny
Accept no substitutes

@ MI Dawn #104 I’ll see your Lake Superior and raise you an Offutt Lake (the one I live near). Warm, toasty water in the summer, actually, but it’s primarily spring-fed. Those who dare to dip into its (not very considerable) depths are lulled into a false sense of security and then bazinga! They suddenly hit a 40F or colder pocket of water. “Hahahaha! It’s so warm…*sudden intake of breath*…eep….”

(And yes, Superior is chilly! I’ve only ever dipped a hand into it, but it’s cold as it is beautiful.)

Johnny, when I was young, and Is suspect that that was before you were born, we didn’t have many autistic children around. What we had were “retards”. You didn’t see them because their families either kept them home or shipped them off to people warehouses like the infamous Willowbrook; places where no one made any real effort to love them, try to reach them, or sometimes even to toilet train them, places where they languished without the least bit of attention or mental stimulation. The rate of hepatitis A and B infections will testify to that last. Without proper care they modeled their behaviours on each other, thereby confirming their diagnosis as “retards”. What we thought we knew about autistic children was that they vegetated in those places when they weren’t banging their heads against the walls.
As for the more functional ones, where do you think the word “nerd” and the stereotype that goes with it originated?

On the macro level, this shift was most recently signaled by the climate-change debate, whereby growing numbers of people have been increasingly convinced that synthetically produced chemicals violated the biosphere.

Ah yes, there’s nothing that says “synthetic chemicals” like burning fossil fuels and producing carbon dioxide.

Are the vintage bathing suits a thing with the kdis these days or something? I gotta say, it’s a pretty cute look.
Edward Gorey deserves some of the credit for fostering it.

Ritalin is a sympathetamine, MOOMOO

That’s a keeper.

Not surprising for a Wakefield fan boi. The link is just to help folks comprehend your off kilter comments in light of your adoration of Wakefield.

Eddie @123: Can you please be more specific about which
” lab-induced chemicals violate human biology” , and what specific mechanisms are involved in “violat[ing] human biology”?

Secondly, you are aware that it is pathogen-derived antigen that makes a vaccine work? That is the whole point of the vaccine. How is a live, attenuated virus a “lab-induced chemical”?

Thank-you Rockin’ Dave…

(and thus indirectly in the biosphere, although I’m not sure that you’re comfortable with the word)

Hang on a sec, I’ll check…’biosphere’…no, I still feel ok.

‘Secondly, you are aware that it is pathogen-derived antigen that makes a vaccine work? That is the whole point of the vaccine.’

Good point, JustaTech, so then take out all the garbage in them that doesn’t work.

Narad, regarding your elucidation on synthetic chemicals, I think you may have dropped a few cherries along the way…

No, I was quite aware of your conflation with ozone depletion from the get-go, but I thought I’d leave that puncturing of your gasbaggery for others. Do get right on with the relative forcings, though.

Naturally, it turns out that this nonword is also a Phildo Hills specialty

“Stuff And Nonsense” gets all the best commenters.

““Stuff And Nonsense” gets all the best commenters.”

Thanks, hdb, I was trying to remember where I had read that particular critter’s comment. Though that was him showing him being a Suzanne Humphries fan boi while making absolutely no sense.

“Stuff And Nonsense” gets all the best commenters.

Odd how he shares the necromancing habit with Phildo.

(off topic; I will get back, I promise):

I have actually walked into the water at Carmel in July without a wetsuit – I didn’t last long.

Get off my lawn. In the late 50s and all the 1960s, spending weeks at a time on a beach in Monterey Bay; spent hours in the water, even on foggy days. Frolic in the water until hypothermic: lie on the sand (or go back up to the house for a hot outdoor shower), eat food, repeat.

Now, I wear a wetsuit or skins if going to be in or on the Monterey bay waters for more than say 10 minutes.

As part of my job I read about a lot of sh!tty things that have befallen children and sometimes I think I’ve become sadly inured to how rotten life can be. And then I came across a subset of folks who believe in putting bleach in their children’s rectums in order to “cure” them of something that isn’t, and I was oddly relieved to find that I can still feel appropriate rage/shock/sadness.

As a mother I am not without fault. I am not the patient, beneficent parent I once tried to be. But — but — to do that to a child — to any child — no more words, other than, Kerri Rivera, you’re nothing but a pandering scumbag.

Johnny @91
Murmur@100

I was diagnosed as autistic 44 years ago. Had it not been for my mother,I would have ended up in an institution.My diagnosis was severe enough to be found.Comments like Johnny’s was just the sort of stuff I was trying to disprove by commenting at places like AoA.When I was rediagnosed in 2008,my diagnosis was moderately severe autism,more severe than Asperger’s,but not as severe as classic autism.I was verbal,but otherwise low functioning.Papers were presented for my mother to sign to put me in a group home,but my mother refused.It was only when my cerebral folate deficiency was found,and treated,that I was able to function normally.

I don’t know where Johnny went to school,but every school had special education classrooms,what was often lovingly called the “retard room”.Institutions were everywhere,and everyone knew what they were for.Life was hell.

Who knows how many of these ‘hidden” autistics 40,50 years ago suffered,like I did, with undiagnosed mitochondrial,or autoimmune diseases we now know to be so common in autism.I have seen a couple of the top autism/metabolic disease specialists in the US,and it was kind of awkward to begin with.They were simply not prepared to see someone as old as I am,who has had all these serious metabolic diseases now found in autism, that the likes of Johnny and Anne Dachel say do not exist in adults.

Can someone tell me how to embed links in text here?

Can someone tell me how to embed links in text here?

Do like this: <a href="[the link here]">[the text here]<a>

“Ritalin is a sympathetamine, MOOMOO”

*Sigh* I am very well aware what methylphenidate is…But you said “amphetamine”, which is something else entirely…And it still isn’t and wasn’t used to treat ASD…

And what do I win for predicting the “Aren’t I funny?” name change?

@johnny #89

So the modern medical approach of prescribing amphetamines, anti psychotics and worse is better than this?

Both approaches are fucked

See my answer to a similar question of yours regarding systematic drug treatments here.

@JGC #118
Another study from Sweden in the same field :
Autism phenotype versus registered diagnosis in Swedish children: prevalence trends over 10 years in general population samples

edit: Delphine asks how Rivera gets away with it.

I see from AoA that Wakefield is now peddling the “1 in 2 children to be autistic by 2025” nonsense.

What a tool.

I certainly knew kids who would now have autism diagnoses (but didn’t) 30+ years ago, since I have cerebral palsy and attended a lot of programmes and outpatient institutions for handicapped kids. My peers in those settings were a real mixed bag — someone who’d had a stroke as a kid, a couple of people with spina bifida, someone with cystic fibrosis, a couple of other people with CP, some (as was said then) “mentally retarded” people who had what would probably be completely different diagnoses now, a Thalidomide casualty, and I forget who all else. Best thing about that is that I’m now basically totally blase about impairments, as well as a stickler for accessibility where it impacts my profession.

I live close enough to both Lake Huron and Lake Ontario to make day-tripping easy and practical, and I love swimming in salt water — I really enjoy being so buoyant I don’t have to work to keep my head above the water! I got to swim in a Caribbean island lagoon once and it was really great, and most recently, I swam in the Mediterranean, which, even in mid-April, was nice and warm! Can’t say that for the Great Lakes!! Also, salt-water swimming areas often are graced with palm trees, particularly the ones in more southerly climes, and nothing at all can compare to a beach with palm trees. (Sorry, Great Lakes!)

@Interrobang: well, my main exposure to salt water has been the Atlantic along Long Island, NY and the Jersey Shore, with one trip to the Outer Banks. STILL too cold and salty for my liking. I’ll take a chlorinated, heated pool any day. I enjoy the beach, but you can keep the water.

Eddie Breakwind has left us, but I still feel a need to comment on his later posts.
“It is terribly easy to sound informed and supplant one’s own arguments in the lion’s den.”
Sounding informed was what he tried to do and failed miserably, misusing science words in an effort to sound knowledgeable. Even this quote proves it – he has no clue what “supplant” means.
The stupid goes on:
“Good luck ol ‘Orac – the man with the wit of a three-legged chair.” Furniture of course can be witty, but that’s not what he meant here. It is perfectly possible to have a three-legged chair – his experience of the world has apparently not included the sight of a milking stool, or even a tripod.
No matter what he says, he misused the word “biosphere”. He clearly meant “atmosphere.” I think his brain actually comes from the lithosphere.
As for his farewell comment, I suspect he will have more farewell appearances than a 19th Century diva.

^ Um, 1/{0.088[1/√(1.3)]ˣ⁻²⁰¹²}.

I was working from the graph Stephanie Seneff’s uused which yielded the ‘1 in every 2 children by 2025’ prediction–the extrapolated line doesn’t quite cross 3 in every children at 2050.

Of course, in her article Stephanie blamed the increase principally on glyphosate exposure from GMO produce, rather than childhood vaccines–wonder if Wakefield even noticed, or if he simply assmed that anyone screaming about an autism epidemic just naturally had to be blaming vaccines.

Certified homeopath? Rhymes with certified sociopath…. What courses do you take to become a certified homeopath? Pouring out water into a line of test tubes?

I also see that Wakefield is now telling parents that he was charged by the GMC with all the same things as Walker-Smith.

His game plan is obvious. He’s trying to insinuate that because Walker-Smith had his conviction voided, he (Wakefield) is also not guilty. Even though we all know that Walker-Smith threw Wakefield under a bus in his appeal.

Perhaps Wakefield meant to add “…and a whole lot more as well!” right after “I was charged with the same things as Walker-Smith…” but it slipped his mind, in much the same way as all those conflicts of interest he forgot to mention.

Dave: if they flunk, will the makeup test require them to find their ass(es) with either hand while their pants are on fire?

Another anecdote on “where were all the autistic people?” My husband (50s) almost certainly could qualify for an Asperger’s diagnosis, his older brother (60) is probably a bit further along the spectrum (though as a math professor, it’s somewhat expected of him). My mom once made an off-hand comment along those lines to my mother-in-law, who was HIGHLY offended (“I did NOT raise an autistic child!” – not sure what that says about me…). I suspect a lot of HFA cases would have met with similar denial back in the day

I read the sessions and assumed it was a joke…but noooooooo! The claims that they have a cure are outrageous, they always get some PhD or MD that went off the deep-end and ditched evidence-based science? Stephanie Seneff from MIT, sounds like she is mentally ill when I see her talks. MIT needs to get one of the Dr. Oz letters to the MIT. She lies about her research in her labs claiming she has evidence that vaccine are bad. She is a very dangerous person.

And now a word from our sponsor:
Roald Dahl and the Measles Factory
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/roald-dahl-and-measles-factory

As all good things… er,, all things, that is, must come to an end, AutismOne 2015 has now become history.
fortunately, remnants of its vast, opulent panorama of pseudoscience-based self-aggrandisement disguised as public service have been preserved for us in perpetuity.
Scanning TMR’s facebook page,
I came across 2 videos of TMs- Jennifer Limekiller, aka Saint, a school psychologist, discusses IEPs and several TMs instruct fledgling TMs ‘How not to die’. ( 57 minutes)

I viewed the latter only- it is extremely revelatory of the TMs’ MO and basic mode of communication to their followers: friendly, sure of themselves, entertaining and utterly misguided.
The services they offer distraught parents are well-intentioned and sincere but ultimately, group therapy gone wrong.

The TMs made other appearances , offered a writing workshop ( Oh Joy) and hosted a lounge -with alcoholic beverages, true confessions and bad advice.

Gut/Brain Injury: How, why, and what you can do about it

BUY SUPPLEMENTS FROM RELAY FOODS.

Denice, don’t miss Andrew Wakefield’s presentation where he likens vaccination to the Ice Age, gene mutation a matter of Punctuated Equilibrium. Are vaccine campaigns truly changing the face of humanity for the worse, dumbing-down the entire population? What a horror if that’s true.
https://youtu.be/U78XWGbUj24

Are there any pro-vaccine conferences like this AutismOne conference? And if there were, who would speak about vaccine safety? Certainly not Orac the Sterile who, as previously established, was heavily spanked as a child. I’m sure Brian Deer received more than his share of the belt while Narad was simply not allowed to breastfeed, not even by the neighbor’s wife which would have stabilized his flora and made him a far kinder person:
http://www.microbiomejournal.com/content/3/1/17
(Narad, you and I should go into business together consolidating the wet nurse industry; better late than never.)

I’d suggest RFK, Jr. for your conference since he’s very pro-vaccine:
http://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/grid-robert–kennedy-jr-takes-big-pharma–vaccine-industry-0_6ck7ne6j25bv

The pitiful irony is it’s largely the sick/imbalanced children suffering vaccine damage (along with some having natural flora balances high in Bacteroides such as Africans), but they’re the ones who may really need the vaccines to raise immunity. But the healthy/balanced children seemingly escaping injury (hard to detect loss of a few IQ points) may not really need vaccines. Recall measles as mild childhood disease and the fact that 95% of all polio cases are asymptomatic.

@Julian Frost: But Keith Bell doesn’t care about kids in Germany. They obviously weren’t breastfed properly, ate sugar, and otherwise didn’t deserve to live. He only cares if you live life the way HE demands you live your life. If you don’t buy his products and use his supplements, you can go ahead and die. You’re not worthy to live, according to him.

Keith Bell, you are one ignorant son of a bitch, or maybe you’re just criminally thoughtless and insensitive, or maybe all of the above.
“95% of all polio cases are asymptomatic” How relevant to a discussion of polio vaccination!
I am a polio survivor. On behalf of my fellow five-percenters, too many of whom suffered miserably and/or died far too young, go f**k yourself, you moron.
(Orac, feel free to edit this.)

By the way, Dave, maybe it was another vaccine that made you vulnerable to polio. For example, the cholera vaccine significantly increases gram negative bacteria which are LPS-producers dramatically increasing polio infectivity.
“Dynamics of intestinal flora after oral vaccination with inactivated whole-cell/recombinant B subunit O139 cholera vaccine.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14965834

“Are there any pro-vaccine conferences like this AutismOne conference? And if there were, who would speak about vaccine safety?” I’m sure there are, but on the whole, vaccines would be part of conferences like IDSA/ICAAC and the Conference on Emerging Infectious Diseases.
“But the healthy/balanced children seemingly escaping injury (hard to detect loss of a few IQ points) may not really need vaccines.” SEEMINGLY? Do you have one percent of a speck of a smidgen of an iota of an atom of proof for that assertion? Can you postulate a mechanism for this “loss of a few IQ points” that could satisfy Occam’s Chainsaw?
And what’s with citing Andrew Wakefield as an expert on anything but huckstering and malpractice? As John McEnroe might say, “You cannot be serious”.
“Dave, that really sucks that you were one of the 5%.” No. What sucks is the complete failure of your educators to give you any grounding in critical thinking.
The more I go back over your noxious brain-pukings, the more contempt I have for you.
Keep it up. I’ll stop being polite; wait until I take the gloves off.

@keith

Again, why should anyone believe a known liar like you? At least I can show other people how truly vile an anti-vaxxer really is, just by showing your comments to others.

Joni’s Mitchell’s polio may have exposed her to problems such as Morgellons.

Reading http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/post_polio/detail_post_polio.htm , I see nothing about delusions. You got a citation for your silly idea?

Proper Johnny
Accept no substitutes

The issue Japan had with their MMR was the use of the Urabe mumps component, which does cause some aseptic meningitis. It the reason that the UK removed two of the three MMR vaccines they were using in 1992.

In fact the UK never approved a single mumps vaccine, the three MMR vaccines they introduced in 1988 were the first time they vaccinated for mumps. Then in 1998 Wakefield announced in a news conference with any actual evidence that parents should opt with single jabs. So some enterprising private clinics offered them, but the only way they could get single mumps vaccines was to import then. The irony was that was both illegal and it was the same strain, Urabe, that caused problems years before. It prompted this warning: MEDICINES CONTROL AGENCY TO OBJECT TO IMPORTATION OF UNLICENSED SINGLE URABE STRAIN MUMPS VACCINE

And the Japanese bending backwards to satisfy their anti-vaccine population had serious consequences. See:
Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan

Emphasis added to this quote:

The Immunization Law in Japan has been providing children with measles vaccination since 1978. Since Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine was introduced into Japan in 1989, a number of cases of post-vaccination aseptic meningitis have been reported and these have been attributed to the use of Urabe Am9 mumps vaccine [8]. In 1993, the Ministry of Health and Welfare (MHW) withdrew the domestically produced MMR vaccine [9]. As of 1994, an amendment to the Immunization Law made vaccination voluntary and not mandatory. According to the present law, a single dose of measles vaccine is recommended for children over one year of age. Children are eligible to receive measles vaccination after 12 months following birth but not beyond 90 months. Until January 2004, adminisiration of measles vaccine was recommended between 12 and 24 months of age, instead of between 12 and 15 months when children have the greatest risk of contracting measles [10]. In Japan, measles vaccine coverage has remained low, and either small or moderate outbreaks have occurred repeatedly in communities. According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

So, Mr. Bell, you neglected to mention how Japan’s ill advised move caused death. Not mentioned, but was broadcast much around the American west coast that several Japanese schools were closed to help reduce the measles outbreak, and that several American caught measles due to visitors from Japan. That included an entire family attending a religious conference and an outbreak at the 2008 Little League World Series.

“70% of the body’s immune system is in the gut, so it doesn’t matter if vaccines are oral or parenteral, the gut is affected. Have you heard of the gut-brain connection? There’s your mechanism for lowering IQ.”
Is there a mechanism in there somewhere? Your foot has lymphoid tissue and mast cells, and it has nerves that connect to the brain.Athlete’s foot or a stubbed toe must have lowered your IQ to the point where you think you’re actually making sense.
I also don’t need “your heart going out” to me. I do expect that my experience and perspective as patient and practitioner both give some weight to my comments.
As I’ve said elsewhere, around the time I was born, and for decades after, we didn’t have many autistic people. The identification of autism, the word autism itself, was a brand new thing, dating to 1943 and few people were educated enough to recognize it. What we had were “retards”. As for the less-disabling parts of the spectrum, Asperger’s syndrome was first identified also in 1943 in wartime Austria and was unheard of in the English language until 1989. It is impossible to diagnose someone with a condition that no one has heard of, and difficult to make a diagnosis retroactively. Even after a new identification of a condition, it takes time to percolate down into first medical and then public consciousness. Having multiple stigmata attached to the diagnosis means acceptance is delayed even further (Bruno Bettelheim and “refrigerator mothers” for an example.). There’s your “epidemic” right there.
“My guess would be you were born with imbalanced flora…” No one is born with intestinal flora, balanced, imbalanced, unbalanced,or able to walk a tightrope.
“Joni’s Mitchell’s polio may have exposed her to problems such as Morgellons” Much as I love and admire Ms Mitchell, exposure to ignorance like yours caused her supposed Morgellon’s disease.
The plain truth is that autism spectrum conditions (I firmly reject the use of the word “disorder”.) are caused by an alteration different from the typical in the way the brain develops, prunes, and reorganizes neurons from fetal development into early childhood. Poliomyelitis has nothing to do with it. There are certainly enough of us polio survivors to allow determination of whether it could and there has never been a whisper of a correlation or of any mechanism for it to significantly affect parts of the CNS other than motor neurons.
“But scientists aren’t asking. It’s as if they aren’t interested in vaccine safety. They only want to develop new vaccines and improve vaccine response.” How many studies are we up to now into whether or not vaccines cause autism? (*Spoiler alert: They don’t.*) The number of studies with a connection is zero since the retraction of the one from an ethics-deficient grifter who was stripped of his license. If it isn’t obvious to you, improved vaccine safety is implicitly an improved vaccine response.
My heart goes out to you for your delusional thought disorder and to everyone who has to put up with it.

More from the Land of Sterility, Oracland™. Dave said:
“No one is born with intestinal flora, balanced, imbalanced, unbalanced”
That’s the dangerous mentality of dinosaur speaking. You’re parroting what scientists have stated for decades without evidence, more akin to religion. Is Earth flat, Dave?

No wonder you condone vaccination within 12 hours of birth since you believe the fetal GI tract is sterile without evidence.

So, Dave, you would put yourself on a spectrum which includes mental retardation? I wouldn’t. Autistic children are thought to have developed normally until vaccination, then regressed into autism. Your regression may have been tied to polio.

I suggest you research the gut-brain connection. It’s far more powerful than the foot-brain connection.

Regarding psychological issues in post-polio syndrome:
“40% increased risk of being hospitalized for a psychiatric disorder”
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/165/3/319.full

Does post-polio syndrome include epilepsy as may be the case with Neil Young? Up to 40% of those with autism also suffer seizure disorders.

Mr. Bell: “Up to 40% of those with autism also suffer seizure disorders.”

Wow. Like we did not know that. My son’s seizures were when he was two days old. There was no infant HepB vaccine then, plus it was fifteen months before his MMR.

So tell us, why do you think Japan’s policy is great when it killed at least 88 people with measles?

Keith Bell:

No wonder you condone vaccination within 12 hours of birth since you believe the fetal GI tract is sterile without evidence.

Were ignorance bliss, you’d be euphoric.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232646

The gastrointestinal tract of a normal fetus is sterile. During the birth process and rapidly thereafter, microbes from the mother and surrounding environment colonize the gastrointestinal tract of the infant until a dense, complex microbiota develops.

As for:

Regarding psychological issues in post-polio syndrome:
“40% increased risk of being hospitalized for a psychiatric disorder”

Gee, a condition that can permanently disable someone can cause its victims to suffer psychiatric conditions. What a shocker.

Does post-polio syndrome include epilepsy as may be the case with Neil Young?

Why don’t you fire up Google and research it? I looked, and epilepsy wasn’t mentioned. Oh, and “as may be the case” is just more weaselling.

Up to 40% of those with autism also suffer seizure disorders.

Sixty or so years ago, I learned in high-school algebra that ‘up to’ is exactly the same as ‘no more than’ or ‘at most’, mathematically. They all denote ≤; ‘up to’ connotes the = portion; ‘not less than’ is negative and connotes the < portion; ‘at most’ is positive, connoting ≤.
Since then, I have learned that the choice between them is usually based on just how the writer wants to mislead and manipulate his readers. ‘At most’ is honest and non-manipulative; the others manipulate by their connotations. Thus, you don’t see ‘at most’ in advertising or in TV news reports.
Ding-dong’s use of ‘up to’ shows his honesty is (at best) marginal.

Johnny, Morgellon’s is delusional parisitosis or a psychosomatic disease. It’s completely fictional and not a recognised diagnosis.

We are in violent agreement on this, SM.

I was wondering how Mr. Bell justified the statement “Joni’s Mitchell’s polio may have exposed her to problems such as Morgellons”. Well, I probably do know the answer. Because, microbiome.

Jeepers Keith, are you a human being or a weasel?

Chris, recall we discussed your suffering mumps twice before giving birth, possibly leading to your son having poor microbial predisposition and Infantile Spasm.

Citation needed, and stop hiding behind “possibly”.

In a world which actually cared about vaccine safely, he would have been tested pre-MMR to assess potential risk of injury (things like microbial DNA stool testing, organic acid urine testing and genetic testing including blood type and secretor status).

There is a cost benefit risk to everything. The tests you suggest, assuming they exist, would be expensive and I don’t see how they would detect the potential for injury.

[E]ven if everyone were safely vaccinated there would still be measles outbreaks.

There is no non-human reservoir for measles. If everyone was vaccinated against measles, it would go the way of smallpox and rinderpest, both driven int extinction by vaccination.

I’m not necessarily against measles vaccination if it can be done safely.

Yet more weaselling. You assume that there are significant risks associated with measles vaccination.

China’s vaccination rate is 99% and they still have many outbreaks.

Citation needed for both your claims.

ulian, dig a little deeper than that obsolete 1999 paper. I’ve had personal communication with the author, Gaskins, and he fully admits no evidence.

Given the inaccuracies you’ve spouted before, I’d like too see your evidence. And no, your word is not good enough.

Meanwhile, the placenta, umbilical cord and amniotic fluid are not sterile.

Citation needed.

Were ignorance bliss, you’d be euphoric

I take it that y’all have forgotten that this is one of Bellend’s favorite opportunities for diversionary attention-seeking. His case is predictably grossly overstated, but you might as well be keeping food in your tent in bear country.

Meanwhile, the placenta, umbilical cord and amniotic fluid are not sterile.

Citation needed.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/40038/title/The-Maternal-Microbiome/

A layperson citation but I think in the name of accuracy, Bell isn’t completely daft on this point. However, his (mis)representations of studies regarding intestinal microflora and their application to the relative infancy of maternal-foetal GI microflora studies, his jazz hand-waving can’t even cover that chasm.

Ding-dong’s use of ‘up to’ shows his honesty is (at best) marginal.

Were KB to write
I think autistic children developed normally until vaccination, then regressed into autism
— then he’d be wrong… and he’d be stupid… but at least he would not be a gutless lying sh1tweasel.
Because he writes
Autistic children are thought to have developed normally until vaccination, then regressed into autism.
— he does not even pass the gutless-lying-sh1tweasel test.

Bacteria found in healthy placentas, May 2014:
http://www.nature.com/news/bacteria-found-in-healthy-placentas-1.15274

Mr. Idiot Bell: “Chris, having mumps twice is exceedingly rare, no?”

No, it was not. It was actually fairly common. This is why there was a myth going around that if you got on “one side”, later you got it on the “other side.” Immunity to mumps could weaken, and getting again during an epidemic would happen. I just happened to get it again during an epidemic. And if you have actually been a regular participant on this blog you will have learned I am not the only one, others have relayed the same experience.

This is where you being of an age after there was a vaccine comes into play by making you actually quite ignorant of both the severity of diseases and how they behave. Plus you are an idiot.

Chris, you’re so kind. If you believe it’s genetic and not microbial predisposition, then perhaps he has Dravet Syndrome or something like it associated with autism and mental retardation.

Dravet is quite rare, explaining only 2.5% of seizures post vaccination. What about the other 97.5%?

How’s your dog, Keith? Still seizing?

Your metagenomic nonsense has been thoroughly debunked here and elsewhere. Stick to waste management rather than spreading your waste here.

Keith Bell: We ARE concerned about vaccine safety. However, we aren’t concerned about your mythological vaccines lead to …

We are concerned that vaccines can and do have adverse effects. But what you don’t seem to understand is that in EVERY case, the ILLNESS causes adverse effect on a magnitude many times larger than any vaccine.

Vaccines do NOT cause autism, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, ADHD, SIDS or any other illness that you yo-yos try to link to them.

By the way, Keith: are you pleased about the little 6 year old boy with tetanus in Canada? After all, he was never exposed to the dangerous vaccines. Instead, he’s at a very high risk of dying for a vaccine-preventable disease. You and yours, with your “vaccines are dangerous” yelling are responsible for this boy’s illness and suffering. Jerk. (I’d call you worse, but I don’t want to wind up in limbo until Orac could release my comment.)

Here in Sterile Oracland, there’s no concern for vaccine safety exaggerations and lies about the dangers of vaccines.
FTFY. HTH. HAND.

Keith Bell @ #228:

The amniotic sac in which a fetus grows is a sterile environment, but the placenta — an organ the fetus shares with the mother — is home to a bacterial community.

Quoted from the Nature article. Since the placenta is constantly infused with maternal blood, this is not surprising. Thank you for confirming that the amniotic sac is a sterile environment.

Perhaps in the future we’ll see routine PCR meconium testing to screen infants pre-vaccination for safety.

Oh please do tell how exactly this works as in identification of what will prevent/cause what.

OT but are ..
WAIT a minute! This is truly ON Topic!

I watched a video newly added at Autism One 2015 – TMR’s Writing Workshop and that’s 53 minutes totally wasted on frippery and puffery.

HOWEVER beside the unintentional hilarity they engendered whilst explicating the fine art of writing, it appears that the Prof ( who led the event because MacNeil bailed) reveals that these ladies have plans-
they want to increase their network and reach those ‘on the fence’ as well as teenagers, minorities and the ND community. If they can engage enough readers they will reach a ‘tipping point’ that will inaugurate “paradigm shift’
( channeling prn, perhaps?)

In addition, a TM narrates how writing helped her deal with her feelings and ‘grow’. Yes, they not only help others- poor lost new parents- but they help themselves
Like group therapy

If you have ever done any writing or would like to embark upon that twisted, thorny pathway, watch this video. In fact, Orac and his minions may enjoy this offering immensely.

Mr. Bell: “Here in Sterile Oracland™, there’s no concern for vaccine safety.”

Where are the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that show any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the diseases?

While we are concerned with reasonable vaccine safety, you seem blithely willing to ignore the lack of safety with the actual diseases.

TBruce, #240, thanks for pointing out the Nature article is flawed. Amniotic fluid is not sterile. Colonization begins in the womb and affects fetal brain development, just as it does outside the womb.
http://www.ijponline.net/content/39/1/15#B7
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22137615?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn

Chris, where have I ignored actual diseases? On the contrary, I’ve attempted to describe a mechanism for why they occur: susceptibility due to flora imbalance.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/roald-dahl-and-measles-factory
I realize you may be OCD due to having had mumps twice, but please try to stop painting me as anti-vaccine. Try to focus on vaccine safety for even a moment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2967113/

Dave, what’s considered a psychiatric disorder changes with understanding of root cause. For example, reactive hypoglycemia is often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. Psychiatric disorders are much more common in ASD than the general population.

Regarding gut-brain mechanism in ASD, at this point I subscribe to the glutamate hypothesis where gut flora regulate tryptophan and serotonin levels in the brain leading to excitotoxicity.
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v19/n12/full/mp201462a.html
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccine-injury-first-gut-then-brain

Mom, do you have an imagination?

Adam, as I’ve told you before, she died nearly three years ago from a photosensitive seizure-related accident. Can you imagine the gut-eye connection? I doubt it since you’re an insensitive ass as are most of you here in Sterile Oracland™.

Mr. Bell, where are those PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that show any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule cause more seizures than the diseases? Small obscure papers with under a hundred subjects do not count.

Keith Bell @248:

Chris, where have I ignored actual diseases? On the contrary, I’ve attempted to describe a mechanism for why they occur: susceptibility due to flora imbalance.

And the cite you use to support it is that hateful lie about Roald Dahl from the quack website Green Med Info.

I realize you may be OCD due to having had mumps twice, but please try to stop painting me as anti-vaccine.

Oh, spare us. As we have shown in our responses to your previous comments, you downplay the effectiveness of vaccination, downplay the risks of not vaccinating, and exaggerate the risks significantly using arguments and sources that are frankly preposterous. When you do that, you are NOT “pro safe vaccine”, you are antivaccine.

Young Julian, I doubt you believe it’s even possible to be “pro safe vaccine.”

Moreover, I believe the contribution to SIDS, the leading cause of infant mortality 1-12 months of age, by vaccination is real and severely downplayed. But that doesn’t make me anti-vaccination.

That’s right, vaccines can cause SIDS.

Young Julian, I doubt you believe it’s even possible to be “pro safe vaccine.”

And you’d be wrong. And I’m not so young.

That’s right, vaccines can cause SIDS.

Horse droppings.
Horse. Freaking. Droppings.
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20030313/report-vaccines-not-linked-to-sids

The only link between sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) and childhood vaccines is timing, according to a major new report. Researchers say that SIDS deaths may occur at a time that infants are given multiple vaccines, but there is no evidence to suggest that the vaccines themselves increase the risk of SIDS.

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/detection/immunization_misconceptions/en/index4.html

If you consider that most SIDS deaths occur during the age range when three shots of DTP are given, you would expect DTP shots to precede a fair number of SIDS deaths simply by chance. In fact, when a number of well-controlled studies were conducted during the 1980s, the investigators found, nearly unanimously, that the number of SIDS deaths temporally associated with DTP vaccination was within the range expected to occur by chance. In other words, the SIDS deaths would have occurred even if no vaccinations had been given.

In fact, in several of the studies, children who had recently received a DTP shot were less likely to get SIDS.

I said before that you are not “pro safe vaccine” you are antivaccine. Your repeating of the lie that vaccines cause SIDS confirms it.
You. Are. Antivaccine.

BTW, Keith, I’m especially curious about what evidence has led you to conclude that “vaccines cuase SIDS” since all the evidence I’m aware of suggest if anything vaccination reduces an infant’s risk of SIDS significantly.

See for example Vennemann et al, PMID:17400342, a meta-analysis which found

Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns.

Oh shocker, instead of answering questions posed to him to qualify his previous statements, Keith Bell just drops more drek. Hey Keith Jazz Hands won’t cut it, answer the questions.

He can’t pony up citations. That would mean doing actual research rather than stuff he makes up and writes down. You notice he STILL hasn’t commented on the child from Canada with tetanus? Guess he can’t find a diet or reason for that one. I’m sure he’ll come up with SOMETHING (sugar, gut flora, non-organic foods).

And once again
I’m ON topic- fancy that!

There’s a report from the band of Kerri Rivera protesters here. (See also Liz’s comment on the manifesto thread.)

Somebody might want to necromance update this BJ Handley item with the Louis Daniel Smith conviction:

h_tp://www.ageofautism.com/2015/01/whos-afraid-of-autism-recovery.html

Poor Keith, if only you would read your own citations more thoroughly and resist the temptation to interject your raison d’être without a.) having a clue of what you are even talking about and b.) your obsession is not even discussed.

Once again, what is this PCR to test for and what will the results prevent or cause?

Kerri Rivera has disabled all of her websites, her email, and her FB profile. She’s a ghost. https://nomorebleach.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/where-in-the-world-is-kerri-rivera/

Keith Bell:

New JAMA paper published today:
“Adverse Events After Routine Immunization of Extremely Low-Birth-Weight Infants”…
Yet the paper impudently concludes:
“Our findings provide no evidence to suggest that physicians should not use combination vaccines in ELBW infants.”

Impudent? They looked at the evidence and concluded that the benefits of vaccinating Extremely Low Body Weight infants outweighed the risks. How is that impudent?

Is it any wonder preterm infants are more prone to autism?

That’s because they’re low birthweight, not because they’re vaccinated. Are you really that fixated on vaccines as evil?
One last thing: you made a large number of claims earlier, and when pressed for citations, you either use rubbish that we have refuted already, or you make more unsupported claims about the supposed risks and harms of vaccination. You are Gish Galloping/Ham Hightailing.

How awful a person do you have to be (speaking of Humble) to get excommunicated from the church of Scientology?

Thanks for the notice about the bum link, Chris, here it is:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/10/14/peds.2010-2846.abstract

Would you choose to vaccinate a 2.2 lb. baby? How about an LGA baby (large for gestational age) which is caused by maternal and gestational diabetes in the rise?

This new JAMA paper links maternal diabetes with autism:
Association of Maternal Diabetes With Autism in Offspring
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2247143

Mr. Bell, you know absolutely nothing about premature babies. Guss what, they are born premies before they ever get vaccines. And yes, prematurity is a known reason for developmental disorders. Also another cause is the mother getting rubella and chicken pox while pregnant.

I suggest you stop digging your hole right now.

Would you choose to vaccinate a 2.2 lb. baby?

Unless you can provide credible evidence demonstrating the risks associated with vaccinating premature infants exceed the risks associated with its remaining vulnerable to infectious disease, yes.

So–got any?

Not only would vaccines be completely ineffective in a flora imbalanced 2.2 lb. baby, but they would lead to adverse events.

Citation needed, Ding-Dong.

Put on your thinking cap JGC, there’s tons of evidence.

Then you won’t mind posting it.

Keith, the article you link to is not the paper itself, and if you read the quotes you will see that while the potential significance is referred to a lot, there is no proof yet that there is clinical significance of any kind. The preview linked to says the same.
Nor is it as revolutionary as you seem to think. “Although it is now accepted that the central nervous system undergoes constant immune surveillance that takes place within the meningeal compartment, the mechanisms governing the entrance and exit of immune cells from the central nervous system remain poorly understood.” In other words they have discovered a likely route through which a known phenomenon takes place and have only done so recently. I have only read the preview but I will bet the farm, the ranch, and my boots that they make no claim connecting it to your beloved gut flora. Moving beyond that, there is no evidence that anything that happens in the intestines whether in the walls or the lumen affects structural brain development in a fetus, an infant, or a toddler, and there is no mechanism known by which an injection into muscle will cause an immunologic response in the gut that will then affect that development. In fact there is little evidence that a normal immune reaction will change the development of the structure of the brain at all. There is no proven mechanism for the cause of the vast majority of autism spectrum conditions.There are tantalizing correlations and many hypotheses ranging from the ingenious and highly possible to the bizarre such as the well-debunked “It’s teh evull vaccines” (SFX: the tolling of a cracked Bell). There is only your wishful thinking that by evoking ever more tenuous logic that you will come out vindicated in the end. Even if that somehow happened you would not earn an “I told you so” because of a lucky guess instead of having done any of the actual work of proving it.

Mr. Bell, either come up with the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the disease, or just go away and take your microbiota obsession with you.

I am sorry, Mr. Bell, but YouTube videos are not PubMed indexed studies. Where is the one by reputable qualified researchers that shows any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than than the diseases?

Are you not aware that the diseases cause seizures and even autism? Really, do tell us how the vaccines cause more.

t’s about making vaccines safer so they don’t cause seizures and autism.

But Bell, your own citation found that preemies had fewer seizures after vaccination. Care to explain?

Maybe sepsis and seizure are inversely related due to how sepsis raises brain serotonin activity, thus lowering glutamate excitotoxicity:

You are truly painful to watch in action. No, sepsis is actually association with seizures numbnuts.

Hey, Keith Bell: once again, please tell me what would have prevented tetanus in the little boy in Canada (besides vaccines)? You keep dodging this question.

Keith Bel:

Vaccines can cause autism in the susceptible based on flora balance.

False. Vaccines do not cause autism. This has been looked at and decided in both the scientific field and the courts of law.
Why do you repeat a proven lie after being shown it is a lie?

Mom, we’re talking about sepsis in preterm infants caused by vaccination raising serotonin levels likely low to begin with since Clostridia are known to raise serotonin and not yet developed in preterm infants. Clostridia are the last set to develop based on gestational age. It’s the butyrate producing Clostridia raising serotonin levels; probably also tryptophan which converts to serotonin in the brain.

You have raised rectally-sourcing your material to an art form. No Bell, completely and utterly off the mark and because your own citation doesn’t support what you claim you just have to make it up.

This doesn’t distract from the fact that you are refusing to follow up on questions asked of you to support or explain previous claims. Why is that Bell?

Citing vactruth, Keith? Seriously?
Seriously?

YouTube videos =/= research.

Keith, how do we know those videos can be trusted? For all we know, they could have been put out by people hoping to make more money treating diseases than preventing them.

Meconium might be tested for reduced or absent protective Bifidobacteria and beneficial strains of Clostridia and also for microbial imbalances known to cause inflammation and poor vaccine response, possibly adverse events. Other inflammatory biomarkers can also be tested in urine and meconium/stool.

Note use of “might be” and “possibly.”

“[T]his discussion is about vaccine safety, not elimination of vaccines. It’s about making vaccines safer so they don’t cause seizures and autism.”
If that’s your concern you can rest now. They don’t.

ORD

Anytime now you’ll go full-frontal Godwin on us.

Eastern Font or Western Front?

Anytime now you’ll go full-frontal Godwin on us.

I prefer full Monty myself just not that Bellend.

Even if vaccines did cause Autism (they don’t), it really is NOT that big of a deal compared to….ooooh…I don’t know…DEATH?

Sia, since when is one in 42 boys autistic “NOT that big of a deal”? It’s a very, very big deal.

Perhaps tryptophan depletion of gut origin is at root of your aggressive demeanor leading to brain serotonin deficiency and glutamate excitotoxicity.

Does Bell ever bother to look up the definitions of the words he strings together?

Gotta love someone who feels qualified to diagnose over the Internet. Dunning-Krueger rides again.

Does Bell ever bother to look up the definitions of the words he strings together?

Bellend already had his ass handed to him during his previous appearance over the 5HT routine. His only rhetorical defense is hoping that if he changes the subject frequently enough, do-overs will spring eternal.

Respectfully disagreed, Narad. I’m sure we both learned a few things about 5HT, though in #637 you misinterpreted the premise: inhibition of CVNs leading to shutdown of the heart in SIDS is the result of excitotoxicity, not the cause.

Regarding inner ear connection in SIDS, 80% of ear infections are viral and the vaccinated suffer far more ear infections (22x) than the unvaccinated. How interesting ears may be involved in SIDS, thanks for that research.
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2015/02/26/poor-poor-pitiful-andy-wakefield-dissed-again-this-time-by-the-oregon-senate-committee-on-health-care/

From Palm Beach County With Love

“Do you think autism can be reversed? And, if so, how is treated?”
No. Autism cannot be reversed. Cerebral structural changes are either the cause or result of autism spectrum conditions. There is no way to change that. Diet, bleach up the bum, chelation, gut flora manipulation – none of those will change that. You don’t need to apply Occam’s Razor to that idea – Occam’s Chainsaw is precision enough. Treatment? That depends on the exact findings. Operant conditioning, pragmatic speech therapy, antidepressants, other psychoactive drugs, physical therapy, sports activities, socialization, any or all of these and more may be of use in a given patient.
“Plenty of people have reversed autism in their children via the gut-brain. The same can be said of seizure disorders.”
Scientific studies, please? Double-blinded, case-controlled ones? Meta-analyses of studies? If there were a shred of evidence, medical scientists would glom onto it like limpets. Or are you talking about bleach enemas? And if you are you can go to hell right now.
“Perhaps tryptophan depletion of gut origin is at root of your aggressive demeanor leading to brain serotonin deficiency and glutamate excitotoxicity. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn you’ve also suffered seizure. There’s a lot you can do to balance . . .”
The root of my “aggressive demeanor” is your casual dismissal of all the deaths, disabilities, and suffering caused by measles and poliomyelitis. Your smug dismissal of actual science, not to mention common sense, and your University of Google science degree don’t help your case with me much, either. I do not have a tryptophan deficiency. I would be very surprised to have had a seizure – I think I would probably have noticed it.
Balance? I am pretty good at controlling my emotions rather than letting them control me. I made a conscious choice to express the contempt you have earned in your comments here. Oh, and if you think I might be mellowing towards you, your brain is in the perfect position for a bleach enema.

Old Rockin’ Dave: “No. Autism cannot be reversed. Cerebral structural changes are either the cause or result of autism spectrum conditions. There is no way to change that.”

At least my autistic son is capable of learning, even with his severe short term memory issues. Even though we need to repeat certain things, he does learn new skills. Keith Bell has not demonstrated any capability in learning, even after repeated attempts, even more than we need for our son, to correct the facts he has wrong.

And in the rising cases where autism does begin in the womb, vaccines add insult to injury based on poor microbial predisposition, not a simple matter of genetics, but MICROBIAL PREDISPOSITION.

Citation needed.

This microbial predisposition also explains why African Americans born perfectly healthy are damaged by vaccines as they have a microbial predisposition based on ancestral diet, high in Bacteroides known to dysregulate the immune system leading to brain damage. The phenomenon also exists in Sweden where Somali immigrants refer to their never before seen suffering as “Swedish disease.”

Fancy that. A group of immigrants from a failed state that lacks all but the most rudimentary healthcare now in a country with one of the world’s best national healthcare systems now get diagnosed with things they were never diagnosed with before.

What I’m doing is providing information about biological plausibility of vaccine injury. You heard it here first.

Green Med Info is not a reliable source. Nor is Sharyl Atkisson. Your claims about vaccines causing harm are a P.R.A.T.T. (Point Refuted A Thousand Times).
Nobody here denies that vaccines can cause harm in very rare circumstances. We just think you vastly exaggerate the risks.

“Regarding inner ear connection in SIDS, 80% of ear infections are viral and the vaccinated suffer far more ear infections (22x) than the unvaccinated.” – Do you have a citation for this? Oh wait, you do, and it’s from Mercola and self-reported. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/01/more-parents-waking-up-to-vaccine-dangers.aspx

80% of ear infections get better on their own within a few days. The exact percentage of viral vs. bacterial is unknown. More vaccinated kids get ear infections than unvaccinated kids BECAUSE MATH.

These children, born healthy, have a microbial predisposition toward adverse vaccine reaction.

The article you linked to contains absolutely zero evidence that support your statement. Which microbes? Which vaccine?

In fact, the article seems to contradict what you say…the subpopulation under consideration had HIGHER autism prevalence despite LOWER vaccine uptake.

Adam, that would mean autism prevalence would increase even further with higher vaccine uptake. Dolt.

Julian, that’s just one paper. Many have confirmed higher rates of autism in the Somali immigrant population. The question is, why? Especially when they’ve never appeared to experience this phenomenon before . . . it’s not about cold weather and lack of sunshine causing vitamin D deficiency, though those may be factors. These children have been brain damaged by vaccines based on natural microbial predisposition and immune systems responding with twice the antibodies, hyperactive immune response:
http://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-discovers-african-americans-respond-better-to-rubella-vaccine/

Microbes regulate immune response and vice versa, a reciprocal relationship.

You can’t accept the fact that autism prevalence is higher in the Somali immigrant community? Google it yourself, I’m not your citation machine.

But please share even one citation stating vaccines protect against autism. Absolutely asinine. It’s like debating with a wet paper towel.

You can’t accept the fact that autism prevalence is higher in the Somali immigrant community? Google it yourself, I’m not your citation machine.

You make the claim, you provide the evidence. That’s how it works.

But please share even one citation stating vaccines protect against autism.

Straw man. Where did I say that vaccines have a protective effect against autism?
I went to google scholar. Here are two links. More than that and I’m sent into automatic moderation.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/114/3/793.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1744-6155.2009.00194.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

The prevalence of boys named Omar is higher among Somali immigrants than non-Somalis. Therefore, I conclude that Somali boys come to be named Omar due to vaccine-induced reaction to a Somali-specific gut microbiome.

You do realize this is the extent of the argument you’re making right?

Adam, the whole point is Somalis are more sensitive to vaccines, so a lower vaccine uptake leading to an even higher autism rate makes sense

See my comment #344. Also, in that case, this study is completely irrelevant, because it does not discuss the vaccination status of the 17 cases found. How do you know any of these 17 children were vaccinated at all?

I don’t know enough about health care as it relates to autism specifically in Somalia.

In the DRC, children being accused of sorcery/witchcraft remains a long-standing problem. Many of the ones my parents saw accused of the same were likely autistic. There’s now an NGO in the DRC that exists solely to assess/treat/advocate for children with autism and other similar disorders, I can’t recall ATM what they’re called.

This thread made me recall an email from a friend from a few years back, asking me if I thought a vacation in Mog was a good idea. It was accompanied by the attached article. “The beach scene is just like Europe!” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9447077/Somalia-does-tourism-stand-a-chance-in-Mogadishu.html

I exercised my curiosity about one of your links. Like most of what passes for science journalism, it is an almost verbatim repeat of a press release, this time from the University of Virginia. Naturally, press releases like this one are weighted with dramatic quotes; universities always want good PR and what better than having a Spock-like quote about having to “rewrite all the textbooks” (Spock declares “This is against all the laws of science!” at least once per episode.). Anyone who works in or around the sciences knows this. If I had a nickel for all the press releases that make declarations about rewriting textbooks, turning the field on its head, changing how we view the Universe, etc., I wouldn’t be bandying words with you. I would be too busy buying yachts and auditioning callgirls.

First of all, Bellboy, I never said anything one way or another about the lymphatic connection to the CNS exciting me or not. But I also don’t swallow press releases vomited up like food to baby birds as news. I am reserving judgment about whether or not it’s as Earth-shaking as UVA PR says it is.
I don’t believe I said that the gut has nothing to do with the brain. What I have said repeatedly, and what you have sloughed off repeatedly, is that you have provided nothing like a realistic hypothesis as to how vaccinations putatively affecting the portion of the immune system in the gut thereby causes autism. You keep ignoring that like the true crank that you are(You have also failed to discuss the contention that autism is caused by dephlogistication of the developing brain.).
” But they followed party line about the association between vaccines and autism having been “refuted”” Take your head out of enema hole, Bell’s Palsy. It’s been not only “refuted” but also refuted. Over and over. Study after study. The only study that ever claimed that there was one was done by a swindler and patient-abuser.
“I’ve had better conversations at my local tavern.” I’m sure. You could only seem to make sense when you and everyone else is sloshed. Or you’ve had enough alcohol to cause Wernicke–Korsakoff Syndrome. Don’t forget to save some of the bar peanuts for the pink elephants.

There are tons and tons of potential mechanisms for how the gut affects the brain leading to autism, beginning in the non-sterile womb where microbes in the fetal GI tract drive fetal brain development via manufacture and release of omega-3 fatty acids. Clostridial overgrowth has been studied where antibiotics relieve autistic symptoms. Microbial imbalance leads to sugar imbalances affecting the brain, i.e., hypoglycemia. Microbial toxins. Protozoal overgrowth. MIcrobial aldehydes amplifying insulin secretion. Glutamate excitotoxicity of gut origin, as previously discussed.

Regarding brain lymphatics, I felt the way you did until I actually thought about it from perspective of the gut with focus on pH. What might slow down flow in brain lymphatics? Alkaline pH would, of gut origin. Could flow even be reversed, a kind of brain reflux? Consider how acid reflux is cured by raising acid while doctors still prescribe PPIs, the opposite of what’s needed.
“Effect of whole-body pH changes on thoracic duct lymph flow in anesthetized sheep.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2603912

“Diagnosis of Alzheimer patients from Brain pH – Prof.Pravat Mandal.”

“pCO2 and pH regulation of cerebral blood flow”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3442265/

There are probably no studies about how childhood vaccines affect pH, but seizures post vaccination are proof they cause pH imbalance, i.e., brain alkalosis. The brain halts seizure by raising acid.

There are also no studies about how any of the childhood vaccines affect gut flora balance which regulates body pH, compartmentalized with lots of inverse relationships.

The brainstem’s chemosensors detect blood pH to regulate brain pH. Also the BBB is known to shear acid leading to brain alkalosis making systemic acidosis a concern with vaccines, especially when they cause sepsis associated with acidosis, i.e., flu shots.

@Keith #345, saying “That would suggest that vaccination protects against autism” is not the same as saying that it does. It merely suggests it might. Try to learn the difference.

There are probably no studies about how childhood vaccines affect pH, but seizures post vaccination are proof they cause pH imbalance, i.e., brain alkalosis. The brain halts seizure by raising acid.

That proves nothing. You are once again begging the question. You are assuming that vaccines cause seizures. You are also hypothesising a mechanism without demonstrating that said mechanism exists. Time to put up or shut up, Bell.

Vaccines definitely cause seizures, I’m assuming nothing. You’re a total ass, Julian. And I say that with respect.

You’re a total ass, Julian. And I say that with respect.

With total respect, eh? Your hypocrisy and self-deception are duly noted. And citation needed that any vaccine on the current schedule causes seizures. And please use better sources than the ones you’ve used so far.

Bellboy:
“There are tons and tons of potential mechanisms for how the gut affects the brain leading to autism, beginning in the non-sterile womb…”
Right there is the foot-brain connection; your brain made you shoot yourself in the foot. If it begins in the “non-sterile womb” then it isn’t being caused by vaccines, unless the vaccines travel backwards in time to cause autism in utero. I give you free rein to follow up on that idea. You don’t have to cite me when you publish.
Also, please tell me again how poliomyelitis causes autism by inducing symptoms of emotional stress in adolescent and adult survivors. There’s another area of research for you: Do vaccines cause PTSD?
It does seem that few if any scientists are interested in finding exactly how intestinal flora cause autism because they don’t know the science as well as you do. If they really want to learn the true cause they should stop learning from the work of other scientists and consult Google exclusively. Then they’ll know almost as much as you do.
At least you use Google to cite expert sources like this one: ” Gut microbiota and infant vaccine protocol
Written on January 7 2015 at 10:59 AM
By Keith Bell in Immune Function ”
You say “There are probably no studies about how childhood vaccines affect pH, but seizures post vaccination are proof they cause pH imbalance, i.e., brain alkalosis. The brain halts seizure by raising acid.” Give this man the No-Bell Prize in physiology. “Of equal interest, but less well understood, is the process by which seizures typically end, usually after seconds or minutes, and what underlies the failure of this spontaneous seizure termination in the life-threatening condition known as status epilepticus…” (An Introduction to Epilepsy [Internet]… : American Epilepsy Society; 2006. Chapter 1, Basic Mechanisms Underlying Seizures and Epilepsy.)
The SciAm article that you link to about gut flora affecting vaccine response is not a paper, but it shoots you in the other foot, with just about every other sentence with a “may”, a “might”, a “could” and very little that can be said to be settled science.
You are Lilian Gish on a runaway stallion.

Wishing Orac the Sterile and all the folks out in Sterile Oracland™ a happy, healthy Sunday.

Dave, I think you’re starting to catch on.

Keith Bell:

There is plenty of evidence gut flora affects brain development and behavior (#283).

I had a look at your first six links. No mention of the gut, intestine or digestive system.

Science is rapidly proving how faulty immune response, dictated by flora, can damage the brain.

‘Dictated by flora”. Citation needed.

Julian Frost, I checked out the remainder of his links except for the last one – I am temporarily unable to play streaming video.
Suffice it to say that my browser was unable to detect the terms “flora”, “gut” (except for an author named Gutierrez), or “intestin” (e left off to cover both intestine and intestinal).
Would anyone care to do the same for the four in #367?

…PCR, stool cultures, spectrometry, fingerpainting, and taste tests to your heart’s content.

I award you one Internet for that.

Blue Gallopers of the Purple Gish.

Old Dave is having difficulty synthesizing information while Young Julian discounts the fact that 70-80% of the entire immune system is in the gut which affects the brain.

Perhaps this newly published article will help them put the pieces together, easier to digest than my previous articles:
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/microbiome-and-vaccine-industry

Oh, Keithieboy, there is no information to synthesize.
You are working with a faulty premise, to wit: Vaccines affect the immune system, much of the immune system is in the gut, and the immune system reaches to the brain, therefore vaccines cause autism because microbiota. Aside from the very demonstrable fact that vaccines are not a cause of autism, your logic doesn’t scan. You have imagined a way that vaccines could do something that they don’t, and that’s a long way away from evidence, let alone proof.
It’s like describing a method through which dogs can write haiku. You’ve had some fun thinking that you’re clever, and now it’s over. You are wrong now, you were wrong in the past, and most likely you will always be wrong.
Incidentally, not only is Green Med Info is not a valid source for anything, but citing an article you wrote to support what you write here shows circular reasoning, inability to argue your case, and is generally pathetic.
“Sheriff, ol’ Keith is pinned down under a hail of logic and science. The Gish Galloper didn’t help. We have to send in Dunning and Kruger!”

Second, Green Med Info is not an accepted source here.

The only reason he shows up is to try to promote his GMI entries. Apparently, nobody there is interested enough or something.

shay, that was the second time I know of that he cited himself in GMI.
I swear, it’s like teaching patience to a terrier.

Dave, did you catch this news late last year?
“Gut microbiota influences blood-brain barrier permeability”
http://ki.se/en/news/gut-microbiota-influences-blood-brain-barrier-permeability

So, not only does microbial predisposition regulate susceptibility to polio (and measles) along with infectivity, but also plays an important role in how polio crosses blood-brain barrier:
“What route(s) does poliovirus take to enter the central nervous system and how does it cross the blood-brain barrier?”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18585526
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994131/

Mr. Bell, “By the way, have you seen this link yet?”

We see enough of you inanity here, no need to give you any click support.

That should not stop you from providing in this comment thread here the PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers that any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the disease.

Chris, that’s great of you to acknowledge that vaccines cause seizures, more than most here would be willing to admit. Do you understand the mechanism?

Mr. Bell: “Do you understand the mechanism?”

Having had a child end up in the hospital due to seizures from an actual disease before its vaccine existed, I am still waiting for you to provide the actual scientific documentation that a vaccine causes more seizures. Where are those PubMed indexed studies from qualified reputable researchers?

Remember it is all about relative risk. Please provide actual evidence.

Again, I’d like to thank Chris for acknowledging vaccines cause seizures. Because people like Naive, No Longer Young Julian do not acknowledge this fact, even having the nerve to ask for citations as he did #360:
“And citation needed that any vaccine on the current schedule causes seizures.”

Again, I’d like to thank Chris for acknowledging vaccines cause seizures. Because people like Naive,

No one I’m aware of has denied there are risks, including risk of febrile seizure, associated with routine childhood vaccination. What you’re failing to recognize is that the risks, again including siezures, associated with remaining vulnerable to the infectious diseases they protect against–are far, far greater–in some ases, by multiple orders of magnitude.

ann, I detect grandiosity by which these woo-meisters- perhaps not so secretly- imagine themselves to be leaders of men** in political matters- as well as in (quasi) scientific ones- which is apparent whenever they pontificate on politics or economic matters. They often call for protests or lobbying efforts by their enraptured thralls as well as suggesting voting choices.

Despite what they say, they seem to have a thinly veiled reactionary stance on women’s rights. Neither is so stupid to say it aloud and lose a significant portion of their product-purchasing clientele- they even call themselves feminists.. What they say about birth control, maternal issues, how women behave inappropriately… leads me to suspect that they support a return to more traditional sex roles as mandated by Nature or G-d. .I’ve had that impression for a long time but I cannot point to very clear references as it is disguised carefully. Listening or reading their material for a while should lead others to perhaps see what I see.
by Nature or G-d.,, a lot of what they say involves telling women what to do to live better lives. Of course they describe how wonderful traditional families USED to be: e.g.
the old timey Italian families sit around a table talking and being served fabulous dishes for hours while the children all respect their elders and the kitchen just hums with activity!

** and I deliberately use that word

Keith Bell @389:

As I’ve stated countless times, my thrust here is vaccine safety, not elimination of vaccines.

And as you’ve shown with your repetition of those lies about vaccines causing autism and SIDS, you are not about vaccine safety at all.

No one I’m aware of has denied there are risks, including risk of febrile seizure

I really need to tell Textarea Cache to have a longer memory, as I started on a reply to his asinine “gut-mediated whole-brain alkalosis” babbling last week, but it’s gone now.

The short story is that you’ve said the magic word. Remember, the only vaccines that signal for seizures are MMR and the departed DPT. Bellend’s very phrasing reveals that it’s all just a blob to him; instead, he puts the cart before the horse.

Just because carbogen might be an effective treatment for febrile seizures (NCT01370044), that doesn’t imply a cause. Indeed, the few defenders of the alkalosis routine try to proceed from fever-induced respiratory alkalosis. (Follow the link at the top to get to the TOC for the issue.)

As anyone who recalls The Andromeda Strain should realize, this idea has certain… problems.

Leaving aside the possible role of IL-1β, I’m happy to report that there are people other than desperately attention-seeking, failed recycling moguls on the job.

Adam, that rogue study holds little weight when several papers reveal gut dysbiosis in autism, i.e., high clostridia.

You’re still missing the point. There is evidence of altered gut microflora in ASD individuals. This is well established (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425813/).

What evidence do you have that the specific shifts observed in ASD individuals are caused by vaccines, and what evidence you you have that ASD itself is caused by these specific shifts?

Again, here’s your model:
A: There are differences in microflora between ASD individuals and controls.
B: Certain vaccines have been shown to subtly alter the gut microbiome.
Therefore, vaccines cause autism.
Where is your evidence connecting A with B and B with autism?

Since vaccine safety and response hinge on the microbiome of the recipient, none of the current vaccines can be considered safe for general use.

Citations needed, Keith: your evidence that the microbiomes of individuals differ enough across the general population to result in sufficient variability in children’s responses to the vaccines on the recommended routine vaccination schedule those vaccines cannot be considered safe for use in the general population, would be…what, exactl?y Be specific.

I mean, you do have some…right?

BTW, Keith, I can’t help but notice that although you clearly noticed Orac’s post @395 (“Orac the Sterile finally joins the conversation…} you ignored the direct questions you were asked you in that post.

Canwe expect you to address them anytime soon? I’m certainly interested in which vaccines on the recommended schedule you consider to be safe, which you consider to be instead unsafe, and –most critically–your basis for distinguishing a safe vaccine from an unsafe one.

Mr. Bell, please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the disease.

For example, if you claim the influenza vaccine causes seizures, the prove that it happens more often than those caused by influenza. It is about relative risk.