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I thought I’d seen it all: Epigenetic birth control

Epigenetics.

As I’ve described before, to alternative medicine practitioners, epigenetics seems to mean something akin to what the word “quantum” means: Magic. I’ve covered, for example, the woo-filled stylings of Deepak Chopra invoking things like “quantum consciousness,” and seemingly for quite a few years the best way to slap a patina of “sciencey”-sounding credibility on a pseudoscientific medical treatment has been to add the word “quantum” to it. Perhaps the epitome of this tendency was the infamous Quantum Xrroid Consciousness Interface promoted by a rather—shall we say?—flamboyant huckster named Bill Nelson. Truly, it was a headache-inducing computer interface allegedly designed to allow for the tracking of virtually any form of quackery known to human beings.

Of course, alternative medicine is nothing if not imaginative, with a voracious appetite for co-opting the latest science and turning it into woo. One of the latest examples has been epigenetics, which to quacks has become the new quantum, sometimes mixed with The Secret. For those not familiar with biology, epigenetics is a new branch of genetics that describes cellular and physiologic trait variations that are not caused by changes in DNA sequence. Rather, epigenetics describes traits that are due to changes in the expression of genes; these changes may or may not be heritable. Common epigenetic processes include the methylation of DNA (a chemical modification that attaches methyl groups), a method of silencing genes or histone modification. Histones are the proteins around which the DNA is wrapped to form chromosomes and how “tightly” parts of the DNA are wrapped around histones can make certain stretches of DNA available to the transcriptional machinery of the cell and others unavailable. There are a lot of other mechanisms too, such as short stretches of RNA called microRNAs that can bind to specific DNA sequences and silence specific genes. Some of these changes can be inherited, an observation that has led some creationists to claim that epigenetics “disproves Darwin.” It doesn’t, because there’s no reason selection processes can’t operate on epigenetic mechanisms as well.

Be that as it may, I thought I had seen it all from quacks, with claims that epigenetics means that thinking makes it so (i.e., that you can modify your gene expression consciously by influencing your own epigenetics) or that you can radically change your gene expression through thought, diet, exercise, and a host of other things, all to make yourself virtually immune to disease. Of course, one joke we like to make about homeopathy, acupuncture, and a lot of other woo is that no one ever relies on it for birth control because, well, the reasons are obvious. Birth control has a rather binary outcome: Pregnancy or no pregnancy. There’s little wiggle room for claiming success if pregnancy results in spite of what you’re doing.

Or so I thought until I saw this video, Epigenetic Birth Control_YOU are in control!:

It features a guy named Markus Rothkranz, whom I’d never heard of before. His website, however, is chock full of as much quackery as Joe Mercola’s or Mike Adams’ website. Indeed, I doubt that even Joe Mercola or Mike Adams would go so far as to recommend epigenetic birth control:

An exciting new world is unfolding around us.Little by litte, people are learning to let go of their fears and replacing it with power and freedom. The more in control you are of your physical, emotional and mental health, the more control you have of your entire life- including birth control. It’s not something you take. The answer is not “out there”. It’s inside you. The same thing that frees you from radiation poisoning (see last newsletter)- is the same thing that frees you from so many other things we fear. Women- claim your power. You deserve it.

The video opens with a woman proclaiming, “I never used birth control, and I never got pregnant again.” Then Rothkranz shows up, saying:

Eight years ago, I introduced you to the power of raw foods and cleansing. That’s only first grade level stuff. I’m about to take you to high school. This episode is about epigenetic birth control. You are more in control of your life than you ever thought.

Now here’s the funny part in the intro:

Something interesting happened to women who who went completely, 100% raw, and cleansed their bodies as clean as could possibly be, living the way nature intended. They stopped having periods. And they also found something else interesting. Even though they weren’t having periods, some of them still got pregnant. They were the ones who wanted to get pregnant. Those who didn’t, didn’t. This opens up a fascinating new field called epigenetics.

My first thought upon hearing this was simple. Women also stop menstruating when they’re malnourished. In addition, just because a woman stops menstruating under these circumstances doesn’t necessarily mean she is not ovulating or that she is completely infertile, either. So right away, we can potentially explain this observation, if it’s even true. While a carefully chosen vegan diet can be healthy, it’s not hard to imagine how an extreme raw vegan diet, coupled with extreme cleanses favored by many of these raw food faddists, could result in the cessation of menstruation. To be honest, it’s difficult to parse the medical literature with respect to the effect of a raw vegan diet on menstruation and fertility. For instance, this small, old study suggests a higher incidence of becoming anovulatory associated with a vegetarian diet, and other studies suggest a correlation between long term raw vegan diets and amenorrhea. Consistent with these observations, it’s well established that heavy exercise can result in cessation of menses in female athletes. Let’s take this claim at face value for a moment, though. If women of reproductive age who go on raw vegan diets and various cleanses cease menstruating, that is not a good thing. Rather, it’s an indication that something is wrong. Yet here it is being sold as a good thing!

It’s also not hard to imagine a combination of confirmation bias, where Rothkranz remembers the women who got pregnant who wanted to be pregnant and forgot the ones who got pregnant who didn’t want to be pregnant (not to mention the ones who didn’t get pregnant who wanted to be) plus perhaps women who wanted to be pregnant trying harder, causing the appearance that this “epigenetic birth control works.”

In any case, the video consists of three women telling their stories. First up is a woman named Cara Brotman, who tells a tale of how “baby crazy” she was, how she had wanted a baby ever since she was a little girl, to the point where when she was 20 she got pregnant with her first serious boyfriend, had a baby, and was overjoyed. She then fast forwards five years later, to when she’s 26. At that point she’s running a vegan raw food restaurant, and in telling the story she practically brags about being “up and running” from 7:30 AM to 12:30 AM. Of course, my first thought was: What happened to that baby she was so crazy about? He would have been only five years old or so when she opened that restaurant, and apparently she was working 16+ hours a day. How did she take care of her child?

Funny I thought that, though, because her next complaint is that, with all the restaurant work, she had lost time “for me.” She became pregnant again at age 27, and she really didn’t want this baby. So what did she do? Her story is a bit disturbing in its level of self-absorption. According to her tale, the night after she learned she was pregnant, she wished very, very hard. No, I’m serious. She “focused on her body” and wished that she was not pregnant any more. The next morning, she relates with satisfaction, she had a miscarriage:

And I realized that I can never lose focus on myself again if I am to continue this sort of mental birth control that I have been on since I was in my 20s. After that, it was mind over matter, and I’ve never been pregnant after that.

Brotman basically brags about “making love” up to six times a day with no pregnancy or pregnancy scares. Of course, one wonders how one has a pregnancy scare if one is not menstruating, which Brotman hasn’t been doing since she went 100% raw vegan. Indeed, she relates going years without having a period, after which Rothkranz blathers about how menstruation is just the “body doing dishes” or cleaning up and that if there’s nothing to clean there’s no reason to menstruate.

If this sounds a lot like The Secret, you’re right, although Rothkranz tries very hard to deny it, saying it’s not “wanting something” and it’s not “positive affirmation.” He claims it’s just “living” the way you’re supposed to and as a result getting what you really want. In other words, it’s not unlike religion, where your righteous way of living is rewarded.

He also provides a ready excuse for failure, claiming that you have to be absolutely certain and that “if there’s just 1% doubt” it’s all null and void:

If either of the partners has a little bit of a desire or a doubt or a fear, guess what’s going to creep into their situation and become real. You have to be completely, completely living what you know you deserve.

Later:

The ability to have children when the time is right or not have them when the time is not right is just the tip of the iceberg. Epigenetics and quantum physics is your passport to freedom.

Oops. I spoke too soon. I thought this would all just be epigenetics, but he brought quantum physics into it too. Of course he did.

The second woman featured is Katrine Volynsky, who on her website describes herself as “truth seeker, researcher, teacher, author, coach, sports nutritionist, athlete, foodie and Chernobyl Survivor.” Well, there’s a new twist. I hadn’t heard of Chernobyl survivors selling epigenetic quackery before. I guess that, even a decade into this, there’s always room for me to learn something new. In any case, she seems to contradict Rothkranz in that she goes on and on and on about how becoming pregnant or not becoming pregnant is a “conscious choice” for your life, that “choice” somehow “sets up a pattern in your body” and “your body responds.”

Rothkranz asks her if she uses the rhythm method; she says no. He asks her if she can have sex while ovulating; she dances around the question a bit but basically answers yes. She even goes on to say that it’s basically all up to her and her partner whether she becomes pregnant or not. In fact, she even claims that there are souls out there who are waiting to come in during the act to result in a pregnancy whom she and her partner can choose to let in or not. No, I’m not kidding. That is what she claims, all with a whole lot of blather about the “cosmos” and how during the act of making love she encompasses the whole universe. I’m only touching the surface here. You have to watch for yourself. Volynsky’s segment begins at 6:20.

Of course, given that Volynsky says on her website that she was a survivor of Chernobyl as a child and that she’s had multiple health problems as a result, one wonders how fertile she is to begin with. Add to that this:

Throughout my journey to true health, I’ve been to many extremes. I have been a hardcore raw foodist, I’ve fasted for 45 days on water, I’ve eaten pounds of enzymes and probiotics at a time, lived on juices, had weekly colonics – you name it. Each experience brought me closer to understanding the body, the mind and the amazing health technology that is out there.

None of this sounds particularly healthy. Indeed, Volynsky relates a story of becoming pregnant, because, of course, she had had a moment of wanting it during sex, to put it more crudely than she did. So she “had a conversation with the soul that’s coming in” telling it to “take another flight” and asking her body to “shift course.” I kid you not. I can’t make up stuff like this, and I’m glad that I can’t. Volynsky then goes on about how awesome it is to have this power of “conscious creation,” apparently not realizing that, if she really did induce her own miscarriage, that’s conscious destruction. Be that as it may, unlike Brotman, Volynsky never really comes right out and says that she “thought” her own miscarriage. In fact, she says she conceived, but one wonders if that was all in her mind as well, given the sheer quantity of nonsense she lays down in this segment.

The final woman to be featured is Kathrine Clark, who runs a website called Simply Superfood. Her segment might as well take a title stolen from Marvin Gaye, as in Sexual Healing, because Clark lets loose a barrage of woo about how the creator gave us sex not just for procreation but to help us in our “awakening” and to increase the “life force” and “vitality.” She reiterates how women on a 100% raw diet experience fewer and fewer periods, sometimes even ceasing menstruation altogether. In fact, she states that every woman she knew who went “completely raw” eventually stopped menstruating, as though that were a good thing! It never occurs to her that this might in fact be an indication that her diet is not healthy.

While watching this video, I kept waiting for a woo-tastic explanation of how epigenetics is supposedly allowing these women to control whether or not they became pregnant. I never heard one. It became clear to me by the end of the video that the word “epigenetic” was utterly meaningless to these people, other than as a sciencey-sounding buzzword like “quantum” that they used to tell themselves how their pseudoscience and mystical beliefs work. In fact, it’s clear that Markus Rothkranz, Cara Botman, Katrine Volynsky, and Katherine Clark have even less understanding of quantum and epigenetics than Deepak Chopra, who, quantum con man that he is, must at least understand enough about quantum theory and epigenetics to be able to pontificate about it in a way that sounds as though he knows what he’s talking about. These clowns don’t even bother with that. They might as well say “God” or “The Secret” or the “universe” is what allows them to do what they claim they can do while ignoring that that their lack of menstrual periods is almost certainly not due to anything they’re thinking but quite possibly to their extreme raw vegan diets coupled with the rest of the “cleanses” they do.

Come to think of it, that’s just what they all did.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

146 replies on “I thought I’d seen it all: Epigenetic birth control”

menstruation is just the “body doing dishes” or cleaning up and that if there’s nothing to clean there’s no reason to menstruate

So menstruation is the body cleansing itself of the evil toxins? There’s some old-school purity-of-essence misogyny right there. Those women with their filth-ridden bodies. UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!

I don´t think that this concept will be very successful because “epigenetic” has the word “gene” in it. And we all know from the discussions agout GMOs that gene = evil and noone in his/her right mind wants to have any genes in him-/herself, food or medicine!

Of course, given that Volynsky says on her website that she was a survivor of Chernobyl as a child and that she’s had multiple health problems as a result, one wonders how fertile she is to begin with.

I’m not sure what she means by “survivor of Chernobyl.” To me, it brings to mind the guys who were actually doing the damage control, who were mostly dead or very sick and then dead pretty soon afterward. Or maybe someone who was actually from Pripyat’.

In any case, “multiple health problems” from Chernobyl strikes me as completely made up. People in largish swathes of Eastern Europe who were kids during the accident are more likely to develop thyroid cancers, but that’s really pretty much it. (Even that could have been largely avoided if the Soviet Union would have been a little bit quicker in terms of distributing iodine pills and notifying Eastern Bloc countries about the accident, but that would’ve required the USSR to be at least a little bit on top of its sh*t.)

It really is a case of just when you think you have seen it all a woo that is wooier than all the other woos appears.

I did describe the lifestyle of Cara Brotman to Mrs P; working 16 hours a day in a restaurant and then having sex six times a day. Mrs P described it as complete bullsh!t. I offered to let her off the restaurant work, but her response was still unprintable.

So Ms Brotman works 16 hours a day, has sex 6 times a day (even at – say – 10 minutes per act, that’s still another hour). Her poor baby obviously gets little or none of mother’s time – hey – let’s go to bed and sleep. Then you’ll be with mommy. Attention? You want me to pay attention to someone other than my self? Why?

I’m really, honestly hoping that her child is either in someone else’s care who loves and pays attention to them, or is a figment of her imagination.

And what is the price of the “epiquantumic” (or “quantogenetic”, this one sound very very good i think) diet sold with all this garbage ?

Oh.My.Heck.

See that is why the woo has no side effects, every side effect is a sign of the woo is working better than any other woo. With the usual dose of it’s all your fault that often comes with the altie view point. I just hope none of these wackos have anyone close to them dealing with infertility.

Working in a restaurant and having sex 6 times a day?

Where did she work, an In-N-Out Burger?

@ hdb

There’s some old-school purity-of-essence misogyny right there.

I was funnily coming to the same conclusion. Of course, we must just be imagining it, with our dirty Old Europe mindset.

@ StrangerInAStrangeLand

I don´t think that this concept will be very successful because “epigenetic” has the word “gene” in it.

I respectfully disagree. In another thread, a peddler of vitamins is all about epigenetics, and how it’s going to free smart people like him of the tyranny of big pharma drugs. It’s a sciency buzzword.

It’s easily linked to personalized medicine for all the special snowflakes outa here.
It’s quickly explained at being about the fuzzy stuff surrounding our genes, but, big emphasis, it’s not about the genes themselves (OK, in reality yes it is, there are physical modifications of DNA, and other molecules interacting in non-covalent ways, and all of these molecules have to come from somewhere).
So from the start it’s a bit otherworldly, and from here talking about aura, positive thinking and quantum is just a little step away.

tl;dr: “gene” is perfectly fine inside “epigenetic”. Don’t expect consistency from people afraid of “chemicals” but nonetheless gulping colloidal silver, bleach and industrial chelators.

I’m just stuck on this terrible idea that you can cause miscarriages by wanting them. There are so many problems with that, I don’t know where to begin. I mean, if you believe that idea, it makes women responsible for miscarriages, which is disgusting, because medicine has shown us that most early miscarriages are the result of karyotype errors or other critical problems with the embryo, and are entirely unpreventable. And of course, then you get to arresting women for miscarriages, which has happened.

Epigenetic magic notwithstanding, I wonder how well their bones are holding up while wishing away the estrogen.

Of all the silly malarkey I have ever…

If wanting something bad enough made it happen, all these women and men going to fertility clinics, etc., would have had oodles of children by now. Absolutely ridiculous…

And arrogant – it boils down to “we are more focused, better wishers than everyone else and if you practice, you, too, can control your fertility with nothing more than thought!”

People can honestly be that deluded?

I will have to practice my wishing. Lately I have been really unwell and things like packing, etc., fall farther and farther behind, even with all the self-discipline I learned in boot camp.

If ONLY I had seen this video when we were trying. We would have saved all the $$$ we spent on ART, not to mention the time/energy/discomfort. And to think I could have somehow prevented losing 4 desperately wanted children. Maybe we just didn’t want them badly enough. Had nothing to do with their aneuploidy, my age, my lousy eggs, nope. We just didn’t really really super-want them.

Nobody who has ever experienced bleeding out their child in an ambulance would ever talk so flippantly about wishing for a miscarriage.

A$$holes, all of them.

@Mrs Woo: you missed the point that those people in the infertility clinic OBVIOUSLY aren’t eating all the RIGHT ORGANIC/VEGAN/RAW FOOD THINGS and DETOXING and EXERCISING and all those other things doctors don’t know anything about (besides the detoxing) and they must not REALLY want children or they would get pregnant!!!111!!! /sarcasm

IF wanting something really, really badly made it happen, every 16 year old girl in England would have been dating a Beatle back in the 60’s.

Argh! How dare they use epigenetics so flippantly.

If I want to determine if something is regulated through DNA methylation or histone sequestration, I have to do weeks of work in the lab… all they do is mis-read some pop science article and come up with a new agey way that it explains something.

I’m sure that Markus and the first two women epigenetically selected their illuminated blondness by the same method .

@Roger Kulp

It isn’t about women,or any implied misogyny.

Actually, I think there is some implied misogyny in it. If menstruation is the body eliminating toxins, then that implies that women inherently have more toxins in their bodies than men, since men do not menstruate. Whether the reasoning behind that is that women are inherently “dirtier” or their bodies are less capable of eliminating “toxins” via urine and stool than men, there’s an unspoken premise that women are inferior to men.

Of course, one wonders how one has a pregnancy scare if one is not menstruating

In healthy women of childbearing age, the cessation of menstruation ought to be in and of itself grounds for a pregnancy scare. That’s the one possible way that cessation of menstruation would not indicate something horribly wrong (worse than pregnancy, that is).

As for Volynsky: 45 days on water alone? That’s not necessarily fatal, but it probably did some serious damage. The other stuff she did doesn’t sound too healthy either. Couple that with her claim to be a Chernobyl survivor (which, as somebody upthread mentioned, probably means she lived within the evacuation zone–but if she did, she must have gone west shortly thereafter, as she uses the German spelling of her given name), and you wonder how she manages to walk around.

Unfortunately, I’ve heard woo-meisters ( and it’s mostly men- excepting Brogan) carp on the dangers of standard, chemical birth control methods – that are -btw- reliable- and instead, recommend more pure or spiritual options that are usually based on a fertile imagination.

This works against women – it doesn’t empower them.

Personally I spent a few years without the monthly bother myself:
I was in grad school, writing, had illness in my family, needed to travel, managed commercial property I owned and had a complex relationship -all of which, along with the attendant stress, caused me to lose about 20 pounds.
No magic was involved.

Couple that with her claim to be a Chernobyl survivor (which, as somebody upthread mentioned, probably means she lived within the evacuation zone–but if she did, she must have gone west shortly thereafter, as she uses the German spelling of her given name),

Honestly, I doubt she was living even in the exclusion zone at the time of the accident, let alone the evacuation zone. It’s a pretty limited population, really. (Of course, if the prevailing winds had been a little different, it would be another story, and Kiev would be a ghost town.)

She’s all hot and bothered about Fukushima, too, and the way she writes about the “devastation” of Chernobyl makes me think her whole shtick is complete BS. “Chernobyl survivor” probably basically means that she’s from the Kiev area or something, but that she knows what effects the radiation REALLY had.

^ Possibly “evacuation zone” somewhere above was meant to mean exclusion zone, which is the usual term, but I was thinking it maybe referred to basically the town of Pripyat’, which was evacuated within the days after the disaster.

I have just visited a page at Volynsky’s website. Could someone please explain “intesristual water” to me? Apparently, I had lots when I was born, but I’ve lost 30% of it.

And yet another instance where woo basically posits an “it’s all your fault” mindset if the desired outcome fails to materialize. And don’t get me started on the view that women’s bodies, and menstruation in particular, is dirty. Argh.

Palindrom @8

Please post a warning! Thanks to a mouthful of food, my keyboard now suffers from severe mucous overload!

@ Todd

there’s an unspoken premise that women are inferior to men

I’m not sure I would interpret it that far.
I would not call it misogyny by comparison (“women are inferior to men”), but misogyny by qualification (“women’s body are messy – clean it up, please”).

Body-shaming rather than gender-shaming, in short. But I may be splitting hairs.

It seems that Markus Rothkranz has a specific market in mind – the successful thirty-ish woman with an active social life, obviously.
But between the design of the epigenetic box (pink, “for single women in their 30’s”, the lady’s little wink) and his choice of testimony (a sex athlete, to say the less*), I have the feeling he has some prejudices showing up about that type of social life a young unmarried woman may have.
To start with, birth control, as he presents it, seems to be about casual sex, not about family planning.

Of course, my comment may just show that I know even less about women than Mr Rothkranz.

* if any woman who is enjoying sex 6 times a day is reading this, please don’t take it personally and don’t let a French vieux garçon spoil your fun.

Sorry but I turned on the video and burst out laughing- is this a skit from Saturday Night LIve? It’s hilarious – on second thought thanks for the laugh.

Where does he go from here? How he always wanted a baby, sex change operation-voila he becomes pregnant on raw food diet!!

Psychic birth control was actually a “thing” in the 1970s and 80s. I don’t recall it being “quantum” or “epigenetic” though. I think they preferred pseudopsychology. “Mind body healing” that sort of thing. I knew a couple who was into it. I’ve lost track of them–I hope their son is doing well.

OK, what if you really really want to get pregnant, but your partner, equally cleansed and a raw foodie nut too, really really wants you NOT to get pregnant? Does it boil down to who wants what more? Or who’s cleaner? Or holding your mouth right?

This story actually gave me a headache. Look! It is magic!

If either of the partners has a little bit of a desire or a doubt or a fear, guess what’s going to creep into their situation and become real. You have to be completely, completely living what you know you deserve.

Well, that excuse for blame is going to break up some relationships when nature takes its course. Of course it gets Rothkranz off the hook, oh so conveniently.

Further on in the video-All I can say is that the women are deluded. My best friend was actually a vegetarian in her late 30’s, tried so hard to have a baby. Adopted 2 beautiful children from Korea.

Something interesting happened to women who who went completely, 100% raw, and cleansed their bodies as clean as could possibly be, living the way nature intended. They stopped having periods.

Even to a non-medical professional (like moi), that right there is a red flag.

Well, I am a survivor of Chernobyl, too – I had to drink this awful Lugol’s liquid when I was a kid. And I got it faster then others because my mom was a nurse at that time. So far no health issues, thankfully.

This post reminded me eerily about something I read on a forum I moderate, aimed at people with psychological problems and their families. It was our own raw vegan diet fanatic, who claimed that a period is really a pathological symptom and healthy women should not menstruate. Imagine all the damage reading this did to a woman with a long history of anorexia, who finally got her period back. She needed all support we could give her and then some to get over this.

But between the design of the epigenetic box (pink, “for single women in their 30’s”, the lady’s little wink) and his choice of testimony (a sex athlete, to say the less*), I have the feeling he has some prejudices showing up about that type of social life a young unmarried woman may have.

I very much agree that Rothkranz has more issues that a whole collection of National Geographic, but he didn’t design the pink box – it’s all over the web.

http://www.tineye.com/search/fcd9055eedc1d2bd0ee2831fd79de8b1a8879dd8/
(the above link will expire after 72 hours)

As far as six times a day goes, I have to admit that my personal best is five, and I was a lot younger 40 years ago.

I borrowed the pink box because the particular birth control advertised is about as likely to work as “epigenetic birth control” and I thought it was rather amusing, to boot.

As far as six times a day goes, I have to admit that my personal best is five, and I was a lot younger 40 years ago.

Messalina could trounce the both of you.

Or holding your mouth right?

If your goal is to become pregnant, either you or or your partner are doing it rong. However, you may have a future as a Rebublican congressional candidate.

pink box

Oh (blush). My mistake, then.

Since my visit to a Toys’r’Us shop with the blue and pink sections, I’m regularly overreacting to any hint of “pink-is-for-girl” stuff.
Women friends tried to explain to me there is nothing wrong with pink, but sometimes it gets the better of me.

Err, back on the topic of weird ideas about women and pregnancy, or the prevention thereof, wasn’t there a US politician who went on the record last year for believing that women become pregnant because they want to, à la Bene Gesserit?
The idea seems to be floating around quite permanently. Of course, because its an easy out to a lot of social and cultural issues.

Err, back on the topic of weird ideas about women and pregnancy, or the prevention thereof, wasn’t there a US politician who went on the record last year for believing that women become pregnant because they want to, à la Bene Gesserit?

You mean Todd “legitimate rape” Akin? He famously claimed that, “if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that whole thing down” and not become pregnant, yes. The idea is that, I guess, abortion should be opposed even in cases of rape, because if a woman gets pregnant, it means she wanted it. Disgusting, I know.

“If ONLY I had seen this video when we were trying. We would have saved all the $$$ we spent on ART, not to mention the time/energy/discomfort. And to think I could have somehow prevented losing 4 desperately wanted children. Maybe we just didn’t want them badly enough. Had nothing to do with their aneuploidy, my age, my lousy eggs, nope. We just didn’t really really super-want them.

Nobody who has ever experienced bleeding out their child in an ambulance would ever talk so flippantly about wishing for a miscarriage.

A$$holes, all of them.”

First, my condolences on your painful experience in trying to have a child. Your post cuts right to the heart of the issue of why this isn’t harmless, why this isn’t a waste of time to oppose it.

The more I read on various forms of woo, the more and more open I am to the idea that the majority of it is due to an underlying cause of weapons grade narcissism on behalf of the participants…

[email protected]:

Working in a restaurant and having sex 6 times a day? Where did she work, an In-N-Out Burger?

Try Starbucks.

As for the “no menstruation” thing, there are not enough facepalms in all of the internets to respond adequately to such self-inflicted famine victims. More compelling evidence that all Homeochiroquacktic consultations should include a free complementary tubal ligation, for the good of the species.

The more I read on various forms of woo, the more and more open I am to the idea that the majority of it is due to an underlying cause of weapons grade narcissism on behalf of the participants…

Certainly there’s weapons grade narcissism in all three of these women, particularly the “Chernobyl survivor,” who practically drips smugness and self-absorption, although admittedly it’s a close battle with our 16-hour-a-day (and up to six screws a day) vegan restauranteur and child neglecter.

As for the “no menstruation” thing, there are not enough facepalms in all of the internets to respond adequately to such self-inflicted famine victims.

Yup. In general, even most lay people know that if something a woman of reproductive age is doing causes her to stop menstruating (with the exception of voluntarily becoming pregnant) that’s generally not a good thing because it can often indicate some sort of malnutrition or stress. Yet these clueless wonders think it’s a good thing, an indication that their lifestyle is the way they should be living and that they can control their fertility with the awesome power of their minds.

It seems to me that the more abstract language needed to describe recent science advances, the more readily it can be perverted into woo or marketing for pseudoscience. The low level of science literacy / education (or attention span) of the general public will ultimately lead to a very ugly place for the human race (think Idiocracy level society.)

The only real skill anyone needs to counter such nonsense is critical thinking. However, this skill appears to operate on a fairly limited basis when you consider all the traction crap like this gains.

Imagining fertility or infertility… Isn’t this what teen-age girls are doing when they think “You can’t get pregnant the first time!” ?

The thing that scares me most about that video (which I haven’t watched because I’m at work) is how scarily blonde the people are in the still. Yike.

@JP: Akin said that “legitimate rape” line during the 2012 campaign, but that may be what Helianthus was thinking of. Or maybe not: there are too many idiots among US politicians to keep track of them all, and Akin is unfortunately not that far out of his party’s mainstream thought.

@RobRN: The same could be said for a few other urban legends about the subject, such as the Coke bottle douche as contraceptive. Ignorance on the subject runs rampant in this country, and the squeamishness of too many alleged adults does not help.

Messalina could trounce the both of you.
“Trounce”? Is that what the kids are calling it?

“epigenetics is a new branch of genetics that describes cellular and physiologic trait variations that are not caused by changes in DNA sequence” Orable

Yes genetics is a pile of woo – if 60% of people with the ‘gene for breast cancer’ don’t get cancer, why the fook are they wasting time not studying the ones who don’t get cancer.? I suppose the hero surgeon wouldn’t find that too sexy really. shame

Real johnny, accept no limitations

“The low level of science literacy / education (or attention span) of the general public will ultimately lead to a very ugly place for the human race (think Idiocracy level society.) ” sorcerer

Wot u mean cos we, the public, see through the woo of vaccination – your teddies don’t stay in the pram?

Real Johnny

If 60% of people with the ‘gene for breast cancer’ don’t get cancer, why the fook are they wasting time not studying the ones who don’t get cancer.?

To find out why they aren’t getting cancer, and how to prevent cancer in others. Next up, I’m sure you’re wondering why people eat when they get hungry.

“The more I read on various forms of medical failed claims and predictions, the more and more open I am to the idea that the majority of it is due to an underlying cause of weapons grade azzholism on the part of the occupants…

“As far as six times a day goes, I have to admit that my personal best is five, and I was a lot younger 40 years ago.

Messalina could trounce the both of you.” Shay

Talk to NobRed, if you count the one arm bandit hole in one candidate, he could be measured in tissue boxes – just stick him in front of a Pubmed scroll and he’ll be off for ages.

Real Johnny

Wot u mean cos we, the public, see through the woo of vaccination – your teddies don’t stay in the pram?

Do you remember the hundreds of thousands of people who died of smallpox last year? Or the thousands of children crippled by polio? No? That’s because of vaccines. You’re welcome.

“You mean Todd “legitimate rape” Akin? He famously claimed that, “if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that whole thing down” and not become pregnant, yes. The idea is that, I guess, abortion should be opposed even in cases of rape, because if a woman gets pregnant, it means she wanted it. Disgusting, I know.” turdi

Just check out what stress did to aborigine cultures way down under when the invading westerners oppressed them – virtually all the tribes became infertile. Having babies is more than the deed, their is a whole context around it happening. It is why ‘proper doctors’ are relatively crap, they think all you have to do is harvest eggs, mix them with tadpoles and shove them back in! You got let down by an old fashioned biology lesson. It is why it is so hard to breed wild animals in captivity.

Lowercase johnny- Have you ever considered that being an asshole has not done you any favors?

“Working in a restaurant and having sex 6 times a day? Where did she work, an In-N-Out Burger?”

“Working in a restaurant and having sex 6 times a day? Where did she work, an In-N-Out Burger?”
Maybe Chick Fill, eh?
(It was so obvious somebody had to say it.)

Did y’all miss that Cara “4-6 times a day” Brotman is Rothkranz’s girlfriend? That she’s boinking HIM 4-6 times a day? Maybe he’s shooting blanks…
Brotman is now (reportedly) 45. The vegan restaurant in SF was called Raw, and was owned and operated by her brother Juliano. It opened in ’94 and in 2000, Juliano moved it to LA. Her given name is Carol, but when she met Rothkranz he re-dubbed her Cara. Rothkranz appears to have gotten the raw food thing from ‘Cara’, who in turn got it from Juliano, but they have turned it up to eleven. The raw vegan diet cures EVERYTHING, and reverses the aging process!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFl4ERBOrs

Anyway, the multi-boink and long restaurant shifts wouldn’t seem to be contemporaneous. But then there’s this rather uncomplimentary (and NSFW) comment about Brotman on IMDB: http://tinyurl.com/k7ew2t6

I don´t think that this concept will be very successful because “epigenetic” has the word “gene” in it. And we all know from the discussions agout GMOs that gene = evil and noone in his/her right mind wants to have any genes in him-/herself, food or medicine!

You ever notice there aren’t any epigenetically modified organisms? 😉

@Mi Dawn

So Ms Brotman works 16 hours a day, has sex 6 times a day (even at – say – 10 minutes per act, that’s still another hour). Her poor baby obviously gets little or none of mother’s time – hey – let’s go to bed and sleep. Then you’ll be with mommy. Attention? You want me to pay attention to someone other than my self? Why?

I’m really, honestly hoping that her child is either in someone else’s care who loves and pays attention to them, or is a figment of her imagination.

Makes you wonder what kind of clientelle he’s hoping to attract.

@Delphine

Nobody who has ever experienced bleeding out their child in an ambulance would ever talk so flippantly about wishing for a miscarriage.

Sorry for your tragedy, and I completely agree.

@herr doktor bimler

So menstruation is the body cleansing itself of the evil toxins? There’s some old-school purity-of-essence misogyny right there. Those women with their filth-ridden bodies. UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!

You got it backwards. Men are the filthy ones that never bother to clean their bodies. I don’t see how you could interpret it any other way.

@c0nc0rdance

Argh! How dare they use epigenetics so flippantly.

If I want to determine if something is regulated through DNA methylation or histone sequestration, I have to do weeks of work in the lab… all they do is mis-read some pop science article and come up with a new agey way that it explains something.

Obviously, you’re not wanting it enough. If you wanted it enough it would come to you quicker.

johnny, you are one stupid, obnoxious waste of a tadpole. The reason for the decline in fertility with respect to colonisation had to do with plummeting survival rates…new diseases and loss of land being two chief culprits.

My tadpole/egg/lab created child farts in your general direction.

This was a pretty entertaining form of woo. Its not even an actual product just some guy in a very new agey shirt telling you to believe.

So, what we have here is a birth control method that requires 100% commitment and attention from both partners? And this is supposed to be an improvement over what’s available now?

I don’t want to try to focus on “no I don’t want to be pregnant” the whole time I’m having sex, and I don’t want my partner to have to focus on that. Asking a man to wear a condom only puts our attention there for a little while.

(I will leave the effects on same-sex relationships to someone else, since neither I nor my girlfriend wants to be pregnant.)

Its not even an actual product just some guy in a very new agey shirt telling you to believe.

Other than the $25 book and $50 DVD that have all the details, right?

Proper Johnny
Accept no substitutes

Unfortunately, in woo-topia, many women are scared away from standard birth control like the pill or IUD.

I’ve heard so much from the usual suspects that I decided to check the topic quickly:
the internet is rife with ‘natural methods’ which are recommended by those who eschew pharmaceuticals; risks associated with the pill are exaggerated and expanded. for example,’ Mercola / birth control’ brings up articles that advocate natural methods like the basal thermometer, calendars and monitoring mucous Articles warn of the dangers of the pill across PRN and Natural News as well. Fearless Parent/ Green Med Info’s Kelly Brogan is especially adamant about the pill being unnatural and even dangerous

I sometimes wonder if their desire for a return to the good old days of natural living includes frequent pregnancies and less self-determination for women.
Or is that just me?

[email protected]

Having babies is more than the deed, their is a whole context around it happening.

I was going to comment on how scummy your impersonation of the proper Johnny is but in agreeing with the disgusting “legitimate rape” idea you’ve demonstrated that you are far, far more of a scumbag than I had previously imagined. Congratulations.

Real [email protected]
I like the Irish moss seaweed on his site. The description says “Eat it, put it on your skin.” Nothing like wearing your food.

Kelly Brogan is especially adamant about the pill being unnatural and even dangerous

IIRC, Campbell-McBride the GAPS-diet grifter is also down on the pill, as apparently destructive of gut biota, therefore leaky gut therefore autism. This has made her a darling of the theocratic wing of alt-health circles.
She knows her target audience.

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