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What? Removing thimerosal from vaccines caused the autism epidemic?

The blog post of mine that arguably “put me on the map” in the skeptical blogosphere was my very Insolent, very sarcastic deconstruction of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s deceptive pseudoscience-ridden bit of fear mongering that he called Deadly Immunity. It was originally jointly published both by Salon.com and Rolling Stone, a blot that neither publication will ever overcome. At least Salon.com retracted the article over five years later. Rolling Stone never did, although the article is now available only to its paid subscribers.

The reason I mention this “past glory” (if you can call it that) is not to brag, but rather to point out that my earliest “splash” was achieved refuting Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s claim that the mercury in the thimerosal used as a preservative in childhood vaccines caused an “epidemic” of autism. It’s a lie he’s still flogging in 2015, partying, as I put it, like it’s 1999. In other words, before I delve into my current topic, I wanted to point out that it is an article of faith among a segment of the antivaccine movement (sometimes referred to as the “mercury militia”) that the primary cause of the increase in autism prevalence observed over the last 25 years is thimerosal-containing vaccines. Never mind that it is a thoroughly discredited hypothesis. Never mind that there hasn’t been thimerosal in childhood vaccines other than the flu vaccine since 2002 and that there are thimerosal-free versions of that vaccine, meaning that children are exposed to less mercury from vaccines than any time since before the “autism epidemic” started. In other words, the continued increase in the prevalence of autism and autism-spectrum disorders long after the removal of thimerosal from nearly all childhood vaccinations has been the single strongest bit of evidence arguing against the hypothesis that thimerosal has anything to do with autism.

of course, leave it to a believer in quackery to turn that explanation upside down. In this case, it’s Beaux Reliosis, who bills herself as a “20-year survivor of Lyme disease” whose mission is “to get the Lyme criminals prosecuted so the millions suffering can be properly diagnosed and treated.” She’s also the author of a post entitled The Vaccine Scientific Exemption: Not Just for Cows. The title might be puzzling to you now, but hold on. It won’t be for long. Reliosis starts out with an odd story. Basically, she references a report from the MMWR Weekly from 1998 about human exposure to Brucella abortus strain RB51:

On May 26-27, 1997, nine persons (a farmer, four veterinary clinicians, and four veterinary students) in Manhattan, Kansas, participated in an attempted vaginal delivery, a cesarean delivery, and a necropsy on a stillborn calf that died because of Brucella abortus infection. The infection was confirmed by isolation of B. abortus from placental and fetal lung tissue cultures. The National Animal Disease Center, U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), identified the B. abortus isolate from the calf as the RB51 vaccine strain. RB51 is a live, attenuated strain that was licensed conditionally by the Veterinary Services, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, USDA, on February 23, 1996, for vaccination of cattle in the United States.

So basically, in 1997 somehow a calf died of an infection that was due to the vaccine strain of B. abortus. The humans who had been exposed took a prophylactic course of doxycycline, and none of them showed signs of infection by the vaccine strain of B. abortus. So why focus on a disease of cows? Here’s why:

Recap: Pregnant cow gets vaccine. Unborn calf gets the disease that the vaccine was supposed to prevent. Calf is stillborn; heifer is euthanized. Everyone involved in the surgery is treated with antibiotics for fear they also will contract the disease. Says the CDC.

Are they killing vaccine-injured people in California yet?

I can hear the vaccine rah-rah crowd saying, oh, but that’s in COWS. That couldn’t possibly happen with people. People are not cows.

Yes, “vaccine shedding” is a common myth among antivaccinationists. Any live attenuated vaccine, to hear them tell it, can lead to shedding and endanger people around them. It’s a convenient myth that allows antivaccinationist to falsely portray the vaccinated as spreading disease just as much, if not more, then their unvaccinated children. So why did she bring this up? I ask this because her story of the calf has nothing to do with what comes next, although what comes next is just as off-base:

In 2001, “except for influenza (flu), thimerosal is removed from or reduced in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and under manufactured for the U.S. market.” http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/timeline.html

Which is the worst, stupidest thing our government could possibly have done.

Thimerosal was put in vaccines to prevent fungal growth in the vial. Fungal contamination leads to immunosuppression, which results in the reactivation or activation of the very viruses the vaccines are intended to prevent. Many of these viruses are known to be neurotropic and to interfere with neurodevelopment. It is glaringly obvious that this is the reason for the autism epidemic, and probably SIDS, ADHD and childhood cancers.

The CDC certainly knows that this vaccine-induced brain damage is going on. They most certainly are aware of this mechanism, since it is proven by their own data.

See why this post caught my attention? Here I’ve been hearing for more than a decade, since even before RFK, Jr.’s dishonest conspiracy mongering fear piece, that thimerosal is the root of all evil, that it’s the cause of autism, neurodevelopmental disorders, tics, and all maner of problems. Yet here we have an antivaccinationist claiming that taking thimerosal out of vaccines was the “stupidest thing our government could possibly have done.” Even more riotously laugh- and cringe-inducingly, she based it on experience in a cow with a live attenuated virus vaccine. Here’s a hint: Thimerosal was never in live attenuated virus vaccines, because it kills the virus.

When it comes to quacks, there is a tendency to want to make like physicists and come up with a “grand unified theory” of all disease. We see this in Robert O. Young, who believes that cancer, AIDS, and all disease are caused by “excess acid.” We also see it in Hulda Clark, who blamed cancer, AIDS, and—yes—all diseases on a liver fluke. We see it in the “chronic candida” crowd, who blame all manner of symptoms and chronic illness on chronic infection with candida albicans, a fungus. In this latter case, it’s true that humans can be infected with candida. However, in the absence of significant immunosuppression such infections are usually superficial and rarely serious. And let’s not forget Morgellon’s disease, in which some sort of “fibers” (which have never been proven to be anything more than clothing fibers) are blamed for all manner of symptoms.

Then there’s chronic Lyme disease, which is arguably the granddaddy of them all when it comes to being The One True Cause of all illness. There is, of course, no such thing as chronic Lyme disease, but that doesn’t stop a large number of people from blaming their vague, nonspecific symptoms to chronic Lyme, from a veritable army of quacks from coming up with a cornucopia of quackery to treat it (and a sad number of real doctors treating it with prolonged courses of antibiotics), and legislators from pandering to these patients and quacks by passing laws to protect the quacks from consequences due to their quackery.

So it’s not surprising that this “Beaux Reliosis” tries to fold the causes of autism and Lyme disease into one large mass of “fungal-viral damage.” What does she base this idea on? It’s some pretty thin gruel, scientifically speaking:

III. Thimerosal is put in vaccines to prevent fungi because they help activate viruses via immunosuppression, and inhibition of apoptosis of fungally infected B cells in particular.

2012, Dec, NYTimes; Doctors admit Thimerosal is put in vaccines to prevent fungi:

Vaccine Rule Is Said to Hurt Health Efforts
“But a proposal that the ban include thimerosal, which has been used since the 1930s to prevent bacterial and fungal contamination in multidose vials of vaccines, has drawn strong criticism from pediatricians…. They say that the ethyl-mercury compound is critical for vaccine use in the developing world, where multidose vials are a mainstay…Banning it would require switching to single-dose vials for vaccines, which would cost far more and require new networks of cold storage facilities and additional capacity for waste disposal, the authors of the articles said.'” http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/health/experts-say-thimerosal-ban-would-imperil-global-health- efforts.html

OK, so thimerosal prevents fungal contamination. There’s nothing new there, and there’s nothing that any scientist would deny. of course, that’s what preservatives are for: To prevent the growth of microorganisms, including fungus, in multidose vials! That’s the purpose of any preservative used in multidose vials of any medicine! The shocking thing would be if thimerosal didn’t inhibit the growth of fungus. If that were the case, it’d be pretty useless as a preservative.

Not surprisingly, Beaux Reliosis then goes on to do a bit of ranting about pharma, but it’s so beside the point that I don’t want to dwell on it. It is, as I like to say, background noise. Instead, she goes on to go full Godwin:

Choice is what makes the top cops in the country look away from the blatant evidence of neurologic injury from contaminated vaccines. The DOJ chooses to let us suffer and our children continue to be maimed.

Choice is also what we the people will use to exert our scientific exemption over Nazi-style forced vaccination. The scientific exemption, the proof that fungal contamination in vaccines causes autism, cannot be taken away from us.

Do you think there would be autistic cows if they didn’t just kill them before the calves developed symptoms?

I’ll admit that when I first came across this post I had higher hopes for it. I thought that there might be a coherent idea behind it, even if that idea was very wrong. What I got instead was a series of very wrong ideas but not even coherently presented. I must admit that I was a bit disappointed. When I was done reading this, all I could ask was: That’s it? That’s the best she could come up with? I mean, seriously. Her idea is that fungus causes autism and therefore removing thimerosal from vaccines led to an epidemic of fungus-caused autism. It’s as though she doesn’t realize that, in place of thimerosal-containing multidose vials, vaccines were made available in single dose vials, which actually lessen the chances of fungal contamination compared to multidose vials, even those containing thimerosal.

Oh, well. It was entertaining while it lasted. Too bad it turned out to be even less than I had expected.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

461 replies on “What? Removing thimerosal from vaccines caused the autism epidemic?”

This feels like the goalposts have been moved so far as to go all the way around the globe to hit us in the back of our heads.

I don’t see any mention of the one vaccine that was used (briefly in the lase 90’s to early 00’s–market demand was not high so production was stopped) for Lyme disease–LymeRix. To further highlight how far out of the plane of the galaxy this person is, “Beaux Reliosis” claims that “Everyone with Lyme disease got LymeRix” (http://badlymeattitude.com/2015/10/29/occams-razor-all-we-have-are-dull-blades/)., citing some bizarre thinking about fungal blebs containing the OspA surface protein of the Lyme disease bacteria.

LymeRix did not have thimerosal (it came in single dose vials), so why didn’t “Beaux Reliosis” implicate LymeRix as causative for autism?

Her idea is that fungus causes autism and therefore removing thimerosal from vaccines led to an epidemic of fungus-caused autism. It’s as though she doesn’t realize that, in place of thimerosal-containing multidose vials, vaccines were made available in single dose vials, which actually lessen the chances of fungal contamination compared to multidose vials, even those containing thimerosal.

That.
There was a recent case last May in Mexico of vaccine contamination by some nasty opportunistic bug.
The results were quite noticeable, in a tragic way, with two children dead.

So I am also a bit skeptical of the hypothesis of fungi-tainted vaccines causing autism and not much else. What, no-one is noticing the occasional vaccine vial turning blue or bursting with some grey stuff?

The stuff about the fungi “re-activating” the dead virus in the vaccine is “walking dead” science.

There is also the whole idea of virus-based vaccines made so poorly that they come from the factory with fungal contamination.
Again, it’s not impossible; but fungal contamination in the context of biological products tend be become obvious quickly. If the contamination occurs in (or moves up to) the cell culture step of the virus production, there will simply be no virus produced, because the fungi will have taken over.
And fungi in your cell culture are very noticeable. The smell can not be ignored.

OK, I’m over-analyzing stuff again and trying to make sense of the sayings of someone who doesn’t have much sense to begin with.

Removing thimerosal from vaccines caused the autism epidemic may sound incredible, but I believe the power of genomics technology.

That looks suspiciously like spam.

So when it comes to LLMD’s and doctors who treat “Lyme” disease the reason that they are somewhat a waste of time is that they are missing critical pieces of understanding. They treat “Lyme” disease as if it were just an infection, they assume the wrong dominant pathogen and they treat with something that never really worked that well to begin with. Apoptosis is the method your immune system uses to kill cancer cells and Mutated cells. “Lyme” disease shuts down apoptosis and you need to turn that back on.
http://www.townsendletter.com/July2009/ed_lyme0709.html
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“The knowledge base about both Bartonella testing and treatment borders on the disastrous. Bartonella is one of the most common infections in the world. Calling it a “coinfection” is nonsense; if anything, Lyme is the “coinfection.” It is found in vast numbers of common vectors, including dust mites, fleas, flea feces, pet saliva, and ticks. Amazingly, it can turn off or lower antibodies to Lyme disease, Babesia, Ehrlichia, Anaplasma, and even itself. Bartonella floats in blood and also enters all blood vessel walls without causing a fatal fever, and indeed actually lowers fevers. It is the ultimate stealth infection. It turns off antibodies, fevers, and immune function defense chemicals as it damages organs in 20 to 60 ways.”

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http://www.pnas.org/content/99/7/4656.full

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“Bartonella-associated endothelial proliferation depends on inhibition of apoptosis”

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http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bartonella_henselae

.
“Bartonella are the only bacteria able to produce angiogenic tumors in humans, very much like the Agrobacterium species that produce tumors in plants”

. Angiogenisis is when a tumor creates it’s own blood supply by growing blood vessels. These newly formed blood vessels are a result of a genetically induced growth caused by Bartonella changing human DNA.

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http://www.pnas.org/content/108/35/14643.abstract

.

“Conjugative DNA transfer into human cells by the VirB/VirD4 type IV secretion system of the bacterial pathogen Bartonella henselae.”

Now since Bartonella is the driving pathogen in lyme disease and since it causes mutated cells you need to restore apoptosis but LLMD’s haven’t even got anything that is efficient in removing the infection.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23090599

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“we actually never had antibiotics capable of eradicating an infection. All pathogens produce a small subpopulation of dormant persister cells that are highly tolerant to killing by antibiotics. Once an antibiotic concentration drops, surviving persisters re-establish the population, causing a relapsing chronic infection.”

.

But I do. http://www.lyme-morgellons.com

The scientific exemption, the proof that fungal contamination in vaccines causes autism, cannot be taken away from us.

The nuttiest part of this is that despite a large chunk of the anti-vax brigade being firmly convinced that it is mercury in vaccines that causes autism, they will fall in behind this idea as well.

If it is not the thimerosal, it is the aluminium, it is the measles virus in the MMR, no it is too many too soon, no it is the lack of thimerosal, and so on it goes. It is always the vaccines.

fungally infected B cells in particular

OK, I’m quite tired, but I’m still pretty sure that’s not how it works.

fungally infected B cells in particular

OK, I’m quite tired, but I’m still pretty sure that’s not how it works.

You could have chosen any other statement at random and correctly made the same comment.

On the topic of not noticing the wood for the trees, AoA has a post by Ronald Kostoff, who notices that non-infectious diseases have replaced infectious diseases as the main causes of death. Apparently, this is a BAD THING. Kostoff blames, the synergy on man-made causes, viz: vaccines, EMF, glyphosate ingestion and nitrosomines synergise together to produce autism.

Kostoff fails to recognise that as people no longer die as readily from infectious diseases, they live longer and die from other diseases.

Just goes to show you that anti-vaxers can bend so far backwards to justify their beliefs that they’ll even adopt diametrically-opposed positions, but still think their own the same side….

This is just painful (emphasis added):

Does @US_FDA know #pertussis #vaccine is a TLR2 agonist & as such is immunosuppressive? #dumbORcomplicit h[]tp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25353353/?i=1&from=/25353353/related …

(Working link here.)

It’s as though she doesn’t realize that, in place of thimerosal-containing multidose vials, vaccines were made available in single dose vials, which actually lessen the chances of fungal contamination compared to multidose vials, even those containing thimerosal.

Pretty sure this is exactly it. In their delusional world thimerosal is so central that they don’t realize it isn’t ubiquitous in reality land. I can’t tell if she’s under the impression that all medications contain preservatives or that we still use multidose MMR just without the thimerosal.

Either way it’s stupid and betrays a fundamental failure to comprehend why multidose vials contain preservatives and single dose ones don’t. As Helianthus said in #3 it’s not as though vaccines are manufactured in the same poor conditions that supplements are.

There was a recent case last May in Mexico of vaccine contamination by some nasty opportunistic bug.

IIRC, there was no contamination; it was crappy technique (but no reuse of needles).

I have a feeling Tristan Wells would be doing some head-banging over the fungus-causes-autism hypothesis (excuse me, the “glaringly obvious” conclusion).

NO NO NO! You never say any infectious disease causes autism! That plays right into the pro-vaxers hands! It’s the TOXINS, dummy!!!

That’s No. 1 in the antivax playbook, fer chrissake.

“Just goes to show you that anti-vaxers can bend so far backwards to justify their beliefs that they’ll even adopt diametrically-opposed positions, but still think their own the same side….”

This reminds me of a study’s conclusion that conspiracy theorists holding the position that Princess Diana faked her own death are more likely to believe she was killed by the royal family.

If a pro and an anti thimerosal anti-vaxxer were locked in a room for a day, would they just end up supporting each others opinion as strongly as their own? Or would they meet in the middle and agree a tiny bit of thimerosal is a good idea?

@ Narad

And thanks for your emphasis on #9. I kept reading “agonist” as “antagonist” and missing the insanity of the sentence, until I forced my brain to slowly decipher the bold part.

From the linked article’s summary:

Interaction of FHA with TLR2 suggests its involvement in induction of the innate immune system against Bordetella pertussis. The TLR2-binding domain of FHA may contribute to immunoprotection against pertussis infection.

Did she ever read it?
I know it’s full of plenty big sciency words, but seriously.

Just how does one diagnose an “autistic cow”?

Isn’t it obvious? It mostly stands around eating and says “moo” occasionally.

Chris Hickie — Kudos for “just how far out of the plane of the Galaxy”.

Just how does one diagnose an “autistic cow”?

This is just a WAG on my part, but somebody may be looking for a justification for cow tipping.

Fungal infections causes immunocompromised status? That is news to me, seems that the surge in fungal infections in particular is the rise of therapies that lead to an impaired immune system or disease states that do. Not vice versa.

Just nutty.

Ha ha ha!
FOR ( frigging( YEARS I’ve been joking that because the autism rates rose tremendously AFTER they removed Thimerisol perhaps it was protective.
I was making fun of them. They’re serious. Oy.

Whilst I’m here:
AoA is discussing Orac’s interaction @ RI with David Foster about Thompson.

A person is measured by the quality of his or her enemies but I still think Orac is excellent.

@ Eric Lund

This is just a WAG on my part, but somebody may be looking for a justification for cow tipping.

Maybe Ms Rellosis is into applied kinesiology. Try tipping a cow. If you succeed, it is autistic.

(Long-time lurker here; I love this blog.)

I think I’ve figured it out! We were first bombarded with thimerosal in all the vaccines, which caused autism. But then, humans evolved to become dependent on thimerosal (as we all know, mercury evolution happens really fast). So then, when the thimerosal was removed, it was like a heroin addict quitting cold-turkey. So what we need is a methadone equivalent for thimerosal.

Makes as much sense as autistic cows…

@Helianthus,

Try tipping a cow. If you succeed, it is autistic.

If you succeed, you may be a drunk college freshman.

Live organism vaccines never had thimerosal in them (they can’t because it would kill the live organism so it couldn’t elicit an immune response.)

The idea that the vaccine that cows receive to vaccinate against Brucella abortus contained thimerosal is simply not correct. Thimerosal is never used in live-agent vaccines.

Therefore the idea that removing thimerosal from vaccines somehow allowed for fungal infections to facilitate reactivation of attenuated vaccine strains cannot be correct because thimerosal only accompanied killed agent vaccines.

There may not be autistic cows, but there are certainly dummy foals (equine neonatal maladjustment syndrome.) I’m pretty sure vaccines, with or without thimerosol, have nothing to do with it. As for cow tipping…..ah, the memories.

If a pro and an anti thimerosal anti-vaxxer were locked in a room for a day, would they just end up supporting each others opinion as strongly as their own? Or would they meet in the middle and agree a tiny bit of thimerosal is a good idea?

That’s it! Thimerosol causes brain damage, brain damage = autism, therefore the low concentration of thimerosol in vaccines acted as a low potency homeopathic remedy for autism! Thimerosol was actually protecting children from the toxic effect of vaccines! That’s why the MMR vaccine caused autism – because it didn’t contain thimerosol! It’s all so obvious!

I begin to see how parents end up believing such obvious nonsense – it’s amazing how much sense it all makes when you’re stressed out of your gourd (not that you can really compare the end-of-semester deadline stress to the stress of parenting a special needs child, obviously.)

Beaux Reliosis’ post was like putting Pop Rocks in your mouth and plugging your ears.

Orac’s surgical treatment of Beaux Reliosis’ post was not so respectful in that not one nicety was attributed towards her effort.

@Beaux Reliosis,

Your communication (post) was passionate, creative, and PETA friendly!

It’s that, and the plastics! Vaccines used to given with these cool glass and steel hypodermics that you had to sterilize after every use, but then someone got the bright idea to make disposable syringes out of plastic. We need more vaccines just chock full of thimerosal and delivered with non-disposable syringes!

Maybe we could make them look all steam-punky too…

/sarcasm

MJD:

@Beaux Reliosis,

Your communication (post) was passionate, creative, and PETA friendly!

PETA published adverts that claimed that milk consumption was linked to autism.
“PETA friendly” is the exact opposite of an endorsement, in my view.

Chris Preston:

On the topic of not noticing the wood for the trees, AoA has a post by Ronald Kostoff, who notices that non-infectious diseases have replaced infectious diseases as the main causes of death. Apparently, this is a BAD THING. Kostoff blames, the synergy on man-made causes, viz: vaccines, EMF, glyphosate ingestion and nitrosomines synergise together to produce autism.

One does wonder what he expects to happen if people don’t die of infectious disease. I mean, the only other option is immortality. Perhaps he took Highlander a little too seriously?

Your communication (post) was passionate, creative, and PETA friendly!

From one anti-vaxx crank to another. No hypothesis is ever dismissed no matter how antithetical it may be to another.

Reliosis’ “hypothesis” just goes to show how scientifically-ignorant all these anti-vaxx cranks are. Does she really think that thiomersal was removed and then nothing done to replace it? As I’ve said before, when you’re unencumbered by facts, your own reality is just a hand-wave away.

@Science Mom

Does she really think that thiomersal was removed and then nothing done to replace it?

Careful, there. Some anti-vaccine sort might think you’re saying that thimerosal was replaced with aluminum, rather than simply referring to the fact that vaccines were switched from multi-dose vials to single-dose ones.

I knew someone who insisted her German Shepherd dog was autistic. It may have had some metal deficit, but I thought its behavioural problems were mostly the result of her appalling training techniques. It seemed to be a convenient label to excuse bad behaviour.

I assume “PETA friendly,” refers to the fact that the cow was killed. PETA likes to do that to domestic and domesticated animals, although I think they prefer cats and dogs.

If a pro and an anti thimerosal anti-vaxxer were locked in a room for a day

…It’s a start.

Polymath** Mike Adams today declares that flu vaccines don’t work for those who need them most ( people with reduced immunity) ENTIRELY missing the point- as he is wont to do.

** of BS woo topics

@daedalus2u #26:

Therefore the idea that removing thimerosal from vaccines somehow allowed for fungal infections to facilitate reactivation of attenuated vaccine strains cannot be correct because thimerosal only accompanied killed agent vaccines.

Enough of your damned logic! Not a single word of it is worth the soul of an uplifting and beautifully contrived theory*!

* Yes, yes, I know.

@jazzlet #35:

It may have had some metal deficit

I suggest a course of Iron Maiden.

Undiluted, of course. What do you think I am, some sort of fecking homeopath?!

[email protected]: Unfortunately, there is no substance to either of those schools of thought, so we wouldn’t get the sort of matter-antimatter reaction that many of us would like to see.

“Chonic Lyme disease… the granddaddy of them all when it comes to being The One True Cause of all illness”

But I thought the granddaddy was “Adrenal Fatigue” or “Systemic Candidiasis” or food allergies diagnosed by AK or Live Cell Analysis!

If a pro and an anti thimerosal anti-vaxxer were locked in a room for a day, would they just end up supporting each others opinion as strongly as their own? Or would they meet in the middle and agree a tiny bit of thimerosal is a good idea?

Probably end up in a “no true anti-vaxxer would agree that a tiny bit of thimerosal is a good idea” type of thing with each side accusing the other of “bullying”.

“If a pro and an anti thimerosal anti-vaxxer were locked in a room for a day…”

Why stop at one day?

Removing thimerosal from vaccines caused the autism epidemic

As my Texas grandpappy used to say, some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.

Interesting story there, about alleged “fungal infections” being used to move the goalposts after the “Thimerosal causes autism” line of crackpottery was squelched.

That has a neat parallel with the anti-GMO crowd and their claim-upon-allegation response to the failure of the “GMOs are deadly poison” and “glyphosated GMO crops are killing us all” lines of attack. They simply fell back to “glyphosate in the environment is distrupting our gut bacteria, which will kill us all soon enough and the only way to stop it is to outlaw all GMOs of every kind immediately” dodge, which is so vague and diffuse that it is – shall we say – difficult to dislodge from the mind of a True Believer.

Oh god, I _hate_ abuse of microbiome research. Hearing people use ‘microbiome’ to promote their bullshit du jour makes me think I must have some idea of how actual physicists feel when they come across ‘quantum’ abuse.

Beaux Reliosis is correct, fungi reactivate the live attenuated viruses via immunosuppression. This is in the scientific literature from the 1950s. That is, the readers can see for themselves, in PubMed.
When I first read this article I had to laugh at how badly this writer here on ‘Science Blogs” screwed up the content. Surely that was deliberate… because it scared someone.
Oh, LYMErix was a “vaccine?” Being a fungal antigen? How stupid was that?

Oh dear, forgot a close that has screwed up the formatting.

The last sentence only represents a link.

I was a child vaccinated in the mid 1960s. I remember every one of them due to severe needle phobia. I remember being jabbed and seeing both the needle and bottle (vial) being pitched into a waiting trash bin. My peers and I had no negative effects.

I look at the children being shot up today and see a completely different schedule for when, where, how much, and the actual formulas. They aren’t the same vaccinations I had at their age. They aren’t administered at the same times or in the same manner as I received.

The vaccinations I received in the 60s are all formulas that are no longer in patent. That means in order to make any profit, the vaccine manufacturer has to come up with a “new” formula in order to make a profit. Aside from the no profit aspect, what was wrong with the original formula? Nothing.

The vaccinations I received in the 60s were not combined. They were individually disease targeted single dose shots. Today manufacturers save costs by combining vaccines and shipping them in multi dose vials. Who knows what effect combining vaccines has but once those multi dose vials leave the plant, they are out of anyone’s control. If you think a stated expiration date is going to cause your healthcare provider to discard an unused portion of a multi dose vial that they’ve paid for just because they are told it might be unsafe, walk your grocery store and randomly pick up items to check their sell-by dates. Greed makes the world turn.

I used to believe everything my doctor told me. But my doctor no longer has me as a priority. My doctor has to answer to insurance companies ($$$). My doctor has to worry about government reimbursement for services rendered. My doctor suffers enticement and pressure from pharmaceutical reps.

I’ve always subscribed to the notion that where there’s smoke, there’s probably fire. I tend to think the anti-vaccination people might be on to something.

Ms. Dickson: “This is in the scientific literature from the 1950s. That is, the readers can see for themselves, in PubMed.”

Just post the relevant PMIDs then.

“Oh, LYMErix was a “vaccine?””

Where was that vaccine mentioned in the article? Then explain how it was not a vaccine, and provide the PubMed indexed studies that showed it fungus was involved in its removal from the market.

Chris Preston: “*Yes that Gregory Poland often incorrectly quoted by anti-vaxxers.”

Well, Ms. Dickson thinks that Orac actually mentioned that vaccine in his article. (actually is was an early commenter, by why let her off on her inability to read).

Careful, there. Some anti-vaccine sort might think you’re saying that thimerosal was replaced with aluminum, rather than simply referring to the fact that vaccines were switched from multi-dose vials to single-dose ones.

Gah I know right? Altho’ it’s actually quite common to witness an AV-er make that claim anyhow.

Science has found that 9 out of 10 dogs prefer Prog Rock.

On Pavlovian responses, I have a beast who salivates when getting his nails trimmed and also when seeing my other beasts getting their nails trimmed.*

*Of course there’s a logical (?) explanation.

Kathleen Dickson is full of it. There is no such study but she will link to irrelevant studies and string together a series of words she doesn’t understand into a sentence that while grammatically correct says nothing.

“[R]everse duplication of a BCL2-class gene, resulting in inhibition of apoptosis and resultant inhibition of ‘normal synaptic pruning’ (see Einstein, Grandin, Tesla)” was a nice touch.

@Roadstergal #51

Quite the perceptive comment. I have learned to smile and nod quietly when otherwise reputable people write entire books on how Quantum Mechanics can not possibly be true because it violates their cherished opinions of how the Universe Must Be. So long as they remain competent in their own fields, strenuous objections are not worth the cost in intradepartmental hard feelings. Besides, Einstein and Bohr fought that battle eighty years ago. (Spoiler Alert: Einstein lost)

@Kathleen Dickson:

Beaux Reliosis is correct, fungi reactivate the live attenuated viruses via immunosuppression.

Citation needed.
<blocThis is in the scientific literature from the 1950s. That is, the readers can see for themselves, in PubMed.
That’s not how it works here. You make a claim, YOU stump up the evidence.

Wait, I’m confused. I thought thimerosal was an adjuvant, not an antifungal agent. Or was it intended to be both?

Wait, I’m confused. I thought thimerosal was an adjuvant, not an antifungal agent. Or was it intended to be both?

Thiomersal was a preservative, not an adjuvant.

Oh, look, Kathleen Dixon also gives, ah, “legal advice“:

In a lawsuit against Yale, you will only need two witnesses: Someone from the FDA’s bioanalytics division, and either Erol Fikrig or Richard Flavell, because those 2 have their names on both the Flagellin antibody method that detects 94.4% of all Lyme cases with 100% specificity, and they also own the patent for LYMErix. The LYMErix patent came after the Flagellin patent, so they knew how to diagnose Lyme but did not use this valid method to qualify LYMErix.

Evidence:
EVIDENCE? >> http://www.actionlyme.org
Thanks for the invite. And this had nothing to do with “Orac’s” post, but discovering how the fungal antigen OspA or LYMErix caused systemic illness just like “Chronic Lyme.” If you have any courage, you will follow up. Otherwise I don’t need to answer lazy people. It’s in Pubmed from the 1950s .

Oh, I see it’s time to give Ms. Dixon a wide berth:

In other words, there is no USDOJ in terms of offering actual humans relief, but rather, their agenda is to destroy the United States, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, because they get in the way of the New World Order, which is another word for The Fourth Reich or NAZIism or Global Fascism. The three main competing entities are the Rothschilds (Mossad, Israel and British Intelligence), the Rockefellers (Trilaterals and the CIA), and Russia. See more about that in Chp 24 about the Bushioso Crime Family

(Also banned at LBRB last year.)

If you have any courage, you will follow up.

And if you have any integrity you will cite your sources.

Why ? I like this method better ; it would save students and researchers soooo much time if they didn’t have to go through the hassle of putting a detailed bibliography at the end of their thesis / articles, just telling readers “I saw it in Pubmed from the 1950s”.
/sarcasm

Thanks for the invite. And this had nothing to do with “Orac’s” post, but discovering how the fungal antigen OspA or LYMErix caused systemic illness just like “Chronic Lyme.”

OspA is a bacterial antigen, not a fungal antigen. Pubmed from 2011 .

I have already posted that link.

I am going to take a punt here. Your repeated inability to understand the difference between a bacterium and a fungus is illustrative of your ignorance on other topics.

@Kathleen Dickson:

Evidence:
EVIDENCE? >> [link to a site about Lyme Disease]

That’s NOT evidence.

Otherwise I don’t need to answer lazy people. It’s in Pubmed from the 1950s .

1) Lazy? Oh the hypocrisy. You expect us to root through literally thousands of papers to find the data you claim supports you. In other words, you want us to do your job.
2) That’s not how it works around here. If you make a claim, the onus is on YOU to provide supporting evidence. Saying “1950’s PubMed” simply doesn’t cut it. Provide links to the actual papers you say support you. Or to put it as simply as possible:
Proof or GTFO.

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