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The Woo Boat, part 3: Andrew Wakefield goes full Mike Adams antivax

Hard as it is to believe, it’s been seven months since the Conspira-Sea Cruise, or, as I called it when I discovered it before it set sail, The Woo Boat. After it set sail and I started reading reports about it from two reporters who took the cruise in order to report on it, Anna Merlan, Bronwen Dickey, and Colin McRoberts. Reports by Merlan and McRoberts were published in due course (and, of course, blogged about by me). The cruise was about as you’d expect, of course. Particularly hilarious (to me, at least) was how far Andrew Wakefield had fallen to be reduced to being one of many cranks on a cruise atteneded by conspiracy nuts that included New World Order conspiracy theorists, crop circle believers, people who think HAARP is a form of mind control, HIV/AIDS denialists, and, of course, antivaccine loons.

Finally, a few days ago, Dickey’s article was published in Popular Mechanics titled I Went on a Weeklong Cruise For Conspiracy Theorists. It Ended Poorly. Not being a regular reader of Popular Mechanics, I’m not sure why it took so long for Dickey’s article to finally see print, but it’s certainly nice additional description of what went on during that cruise. Although there had been intimations of threats before, Dickey spells them out right at the very beginning of her article:

It was a bit after seven, and I should have been downstairs on Plaza Deck, dressed in formal attire and enjoying dinner with the conspiracy theorists. There were about a hundred of them, and they were nearing the end of their week—the last week in January—aboard the Ruby Princess. Many of them were older people, and each of them had paid $3,000 (not including airfare and beverages on board) to participate in the first-ever Conspira-Sea Cruise, a weeklong celebration of “alternative science” hosted by a tour company called Divine Travels. For the past five days, they had debated UFOs, GMOs, government mind-control programs, vaccines, chemtrails, crop circles, and the Illuminati’s plan for world domination, all while soaking up the mystical energies of three Mexican tourist towns known mainly for wet T-shirt contests and Señor Frog’s.

But I was not on Plaza Deck. I was locked in my stateroom on Baja Deck, picking at a room-service cheeseburger. Earlier that afternoon, a pair of Conspira-Sea presenters had chased me—chased me—from a conference room. This wasn’t our first confrontation, and now I feared they were tracking me around the ship, waiting to spring out from blind corners and empty doorways.

How did it get to this? Dickey backtracks to the beginning and lets the story flow from there. One detail she caught that was amusing to me is how she was able to distinguish the cruisers, the people on the Ruby Princess who were there for a typical Pacific Ocean cruise and not there to attend the conspiracy-fest and her fellow attendees. She noted that the former group tended to dress in bright colors and loud prints, complete with captain’s hats from the gift shop, while the later consisted mainly of “serious-looking senior citizens in ‘Infowars’ T-shirts,” some of whom wore casts, others of whom walked with canes, and a couple of whom relied on motorized scooters. She also noted that none of them “looked like he or she could afford to spend money frivolously.”

Then there were the introductions. Speakers included Laura Eisenhower (great-granddaughter of Dwight), who claimed that she had been invited in 2006 to join a secret American colony on Mars and that aliens are living on earth in disquise. There was also Dannion Brinkley, a best-selling author who claims to have risen from the dead three times. (Top that, Jesus!) There were crop circle mavens, anti-GMO activists, various quacks, and “holistic healers.” As I pointed out at the time, the only form of conspiracy woo missing was someone into cryptozoology. I was, indeed, surprised there were no Bigfoot fans.

Then there was, of course, the biggest name on the roster: The most famous antivaccinationist in the world, Andrew Wakefield, the man whose fraudulent 12 patient case series published in The Lancet claiming to find an association between vaccination with the MMR vaccine and regressive autism 1998 launched a thousand autism quacks and so frightened British parents that MMR uptake plummeted and the measles, once all but eliminated, came surging back. The damage is only now beginning to abate, with a recovery of MMR uptake. More recently, Wakefield has teamed up with Del Bigtree and Polley Tommey to make an antivaccine documentary, VAXXED, that is nothing but deceptive propaganda. Oh, and he’s also been trying to convince the African-American community that the MMR is dangerous and their children, particularly boys, are more sensitive to its evil autism-causing effects than Caucasians. In late January, when he was featured on the Conspira-Sea Cruise, Wakefield’s movie must have been in post-production or basically finished.

Still, according to Dickey, the conspiracy world was well represented, between tracks:

The week’s seminars appeared to be split into two broad categories. There were those with a magical or highly new age component: “Astral Possession, Psychic Vampirism, and Exorcism,” “Gaia-Sophia, Timelines and Global Alchemy,” “How to Control the World with Mind Machines.” And then there were those that detailed concrete, terrestrial dangers: “Are GMOs and Roundup Causing Disease in Millions?” “Vaccinations: Do You Really Know What’s Coming Through That Needle?” A subset of the second group concerned itself with the U.S. legal and banking systems. Unfortunately, the nightly UFO watches had to be canceled because the man who was to lead them had recently suffered a stroke.

Bummer. If I were on that cruise, I’d definitely want to hang out for the UFO watches. Of course, one wonders how well the passengers could see UFOs on a brightly lit ship with a lot of regular people just there for a vacation who were likely more in the mood to party than anything else.

Besides Wakefield, there was one speaker on the cruise whom I’ve discussed before, Len Horowitz, who attended with his girlfriend Sherri Kane. When last we encountered Horowitz and Kane, they were pushing what I like to call a “zombie meme,” namely that the early polio vaccine, contaminated with SV40, caused an “epidemic” of cancer. It didn’t. It turns out that Horowitz is into a lot more quackery than that, as Dickey describes after a hilariously on point brief description of him:

Len bore a strong resemblance to the Count from Sesame Street, if you had frozen the Count in 1974 and dressed him in Hawaiian shirts. A former dentist from New Jersey with a degree in public health from Harvard, he is most well-known for writing a 1996 book that theorized the AIDS and Ebola viruses are genocidal weapons engineered by the U.S. government to depopulate the planet through vaccination programs. On the cruise, however, he would be lecturing on the key to lifelong health and world peace: the “miracle frequency” of 528 hertz.

According to Len, everything in the universe emits vibrations, and all the positive, life-affirming forces (including the green/yellow light in rainbows) “resonate” at a frequency of 528 hertz. Therefore, all music should be tuned in 528 hertz, rather than the 440 hertz of standard tuning, which he asserted was an evil plot imposed by the Rockefeller Foundation to militarize the world’s populace. Len believes that standard tuning aggravates the pineal gland, making all of us emotionally distressed, sicker, and more destructive. He called this “musical cult control.”

Vibrations. It always has to be vibrations with quacks.

The antivaccine movement being one of my areas of expertise and specialization, naturally that part of Dickey’s article that most interested me was her account of Wakefield’s talk. She noted early on that Wakefield observed, “The story of my life is basically how to take a perfectly good career and flush it down the toilet,” That’s very typical of Wakefield, full of self-pity but also atypical in that it demonstrates at least a little self-awareness, something you normally don’t associate with him.

Now, here’s what surprised me. Wakefield is antivaccine. There’s no doubt about it, based on his history, his utterances and writing, and, of course, his movie VAXXED. However, if there’s one thing about Wakefield, it’s that he has always tried to project a more “reasonable” (superficially, at least) image, avoiding the more inflammatory and nutty rhetoric associated with the more—shall we say—enthusiastic antivaccine activists. None of this stopped him from contributing to the creation of the “CDC whistleblower” conspiracy theory and producing a movie with one of the more fevered antivaccine conspiracy theories out there, but he made the film with plausible deniability that he is antivaccine and frequently repeats that he is not antivaccine, usually before saying something really antivaccine.

But he doesn’t usually go this far:

The seminar began. For an hour, Wakefield paced in front of a projection screen, which ballooned his shadow to giant proportions. Slides of children born without arms and others screaming in pain flashed behind him.

“Your bodies are owned by Big Pharma,” he said. “It’s turning into a science-fiction movie.” The audience gasped and shook their heads in disbelief. “This will be the end of the United States of America.” During the Q&A portion, Wakefield added, “This is a deliberate eugenics program, a deliberate population-control program.”

This is hard core antivaccine conspiracy theorist territory. These sorts of statements are the purview of Mike Adams or Gary Null, not (until now) Andrew Wakefield. As Matt Carey notes, these sorts of claims might play well on a conspiracy cruise with an audience full of believers in the Illuminati, crop circles, New World Order conspiracies, and quackery of various kinds. Wakefield is usually very careful never to say something like that in public, where he can be overheard and reported on, and his statement publicized.

One of the most amusing parts of the story is how during the cruise the sea was pretty choppy for long periods of time so that many of the attendees of the Conspira-Sea Cruise became seasick. As that happened, they became crankier and more paranoid. Eventually, they became less…welcoming… of Dickey and her photographer Dina Litovsky. For instance, Wakefield asked them not to attend a screening of VAXXED, then called Injecting Lies. Some other speakers asked them to leave their panels. Then Len Horowitz confronted them:

“I want you to see something!” he shouted as he tried to force a packet of papers into her hands, then mine. They were articles from Popular Mechanics debunking bad science. Apparently Len and Sherri had been up all night Googling the magazine and printing out documents in the ship’s computer center. There was also a Wikipedia entry that linked the magazine’s parent company, Hearst, to the Lagardère Group.

I tried to laugh it off and go around him, but Len wouldn’t let me pass.

“Look at this!” he shouted, his face contorting with rage. “Look at this! This is why you’re here! You’re here in bad faith!”

Larry Cook, who had also been milling around in the hallway, stepped in front of Len to keep him from lunging at me.

“Get your hands off me!” Len shouted at him. “Get your f–king hands off me!”

Armed with a camera, Sherri darted out from behind Len and chased me around the hallway, demanding that I explain myself. As I tried to block my face from the camera, I got trapped against the wall between Len and Larry, who seemed seconds away from a full-on brawl.

“If you don’t stop this, I’m calling security,” Larry said. Len then challenged Larry to a fistfight in the ship’s gym.

Larry Cook is an antivaccinationist and Wakefield groupie who attended the cruise specifically to meet his hero. Later, Wakefield invited them back to his third appearance, but they declined. Later they learned that his plan had been to “ambush” them with excerpts from Popular Mechanics. No doubt the conspiracy theorists probably wouldn’t have liked one of Popular Mechanics’ greatest accomplishments, its magisterial debunking of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Basically, reading Dickey’s account didn’t really teach me anything I didn’t already know, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. It was also particularly useful for having caught Wakefield with his mask down labeling vaccines as a “eugenics program.” I’m sorry, Andy. You don’t get to call yourself “not antivaccine” if you’re promoting nonsense like that.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

176 replies on “The Woo Boat, part 3: Andrew Wakefield goes full Mike Adams antivax”

a 1996 book that theorized the AIDS and Ebola viruses are genocidal weapons engineered by the U.S. government to depopulate the planet through vaccination programs.

So, apparently, the way to kill people with highly lethal bioweapons isn’t to let the weapons do the killing, but to provide vaccines against them. Because not dying of ebola is so much more fatal than doing so.

Unfortunately, the nightly UFO watches had to be canceled because the man who was to lead them had recently suffered a stroke.

Conspira-Sea Session 11.13: Alien Abduction: Do Anal Probes Go Too Far?

(Cruel? Sure. But my sympathy for this sorry bunch of deeply distressed and disturbed people is hard-tempered by the deep distress and injury they cause to others.)

As for Wakefield, he’s not so much specifically anti-vaccine as exclusively pro-Wakefield. He may be a narcissist, but he’s no dummy when it comes to selling product, be it his patented measles vaccine or his quasi-religious cult. He’s just tailoring his message to whatever audience sits currently before him, be it preening neurotic middle-class or terrified gullible paranoiac. Happily, such two-facedness also plays straight to Wakefield’s other great talent: hoisting himself on his own petard. So next time he tries replaying his “honest concerned physician” spiel to his mainstream Hollywood audience, just stick his screeching eugenics wharrgarble side-by-side to it and let the discordant smash speak for itself.

… all the positive, life-affirming forces (including the green/yellow light in rainbows) “resonate” at a frequency of 528 hertz.

The frequency of yellow-green light happens to be about 528 teraherz. So he’s only off by a factor of a trillion. Not bad in a domain where homeopathy rules.

However, musically 528Hz is in a precise 6:5 ratio with 440Hz, or the interval of minor third in just temperament. Two of these form a diminished fifth (36:25) — or the Devil’s Tritone. Maybe he’s on to something… 🙂

Once again Andrew Wakefield proves that there is only one thing he cares about: Andrew Wakefield getting paid. He will say whatever he thinks his audience will approve of, so they will continue to see him as their hero and throw him money.

What really struck me about Dickey’s piece was that some of these people seem to be even more deranged in real life than they appear on the Internet.

“The frequency of yellow-green light happens to be about 528 teraherz. So he’s only off by a factor of a trillion. Not bad in a domain where homeopathy rules.”

I’m sure you can find many shades of yellow (and every other color) that are harmonics of 528 Hz. The trick is building a stable optical filter with a 1 Hz band-pass to produce it!

I’m surprised he doesn’t market a low power radio transmitter that generates kHz EM waves that are harmonics of 528 Hz. It would be cheap and easy to build, and I hear you can charge a lot in that market!

“There was also Dannion Brinkley, a best-selling author who claims to have risen from the dead three times. (Top that, Jesus!)”

Dannion seems to have been one of the most popular speakers on the cruise, based on testimonials:

http://www.divinetravels.com/ConspiraSeaCruise.html

Note that the next Conspira-Sea Cruise is in the summer of 2018, when they invade Alaskan waters. No word yet on who the speakers will be, though I’m hoping Suzanne Humphries can make it (she’s been resurrected, too):

https://www.amazon.com/Rising-Dead-Suzanne-Humphries-M-D/dp/0692648186

Worst eugenics program *ever* = vaccination. Only slightly less offensive than Laura Hayes August (in your August 5th RI) claiming vaccination is causing a “Holocaust”. Of course Wakefield has stooped to Holocaust comparison in his early “Whistleblower” videos.

Therefore, all music should be tuned in 528 hertz, rather than the 440 hertz of standard tuning, which he asserted … — another way of claiming the world is flat?

I particularly enjoyed this from the Popular Mechanics article:

When we finally disembarked, after Dina and I had driven away, a team of special agents with the Internal Revenue Service arrived at the port and arrested Sean David Morton and his wife, Melissa, on fifty-six counts of fraud, including filing a false tax return that sought a refund of $2,809,921. If convicted, the two face more than six hundred years in prison. (Both have pleaded not guilty.) A couple months later, Winston Shrout was indicted for allegedly printing more than $1 trillion in fake financial documents. (He has also pleaded not guilty.) Len and Sherri returned to their home in Hawaii and wrote a long, angry blog post charging me with war crimes and claiming I was part of a top-secret cell of “Pharma Trolls.” They also charged Larry, who tried to protect me, as being a double agent for Big Pharma.

However, musically 528Hz is in a precise 6:5 ratio with 440Hz, or the interval of minor third in just temperament.

I noticed that, too. Specifically, since 440 Hz is the A above middle C, 528 Hz would be a full octave above middle C under a just tuning scheme. In equal tempered tuning, the note in question would be about 523 Hz, less than 1% lower.

I don’t know where the Rockefeller Foundation stuff comes from, but according to Wikipedia A440 tuning is an accepted international standard (ISO 16). It is not, however, in universal use: for example, the Berlin Philharmonic uses 443 Hz, while the Boston Symphony Orchestra uses 441 Hz.

Two thoughts:
A.This not just show that Wakefield is willing to say blatantly anti-vaccine stuff – it shows how audience-focused he is, how willing to say whatever will get to his audience.

B. Larry Cook is radically anti-vaccine. And his intervention here – his effort to protect Ms. Dickey, which is to his credit – made Horowitz and Kane go all out on him. Eating their own.

From the ‘magisterial debunking.

The collapse of both World Trade Center towers—and the smaller WTC 7 a few hours later—initially surprised even some experts. But subsequent studies have shown that the WTC’s structural integrity was destroyed by intense fire as well as the severe damage inflicted by the planes.

I wonder how they came to that conclusion???? The information is still classified as to how ‘fire’ brought down building 7 (as well as the others).

FINDING REGARDING PUBLIC SAFETY INFORMATION
Pursuant to Section 7(d) of the National Construction Safety Team Act, I hereby find that the disclosure of the information described below, received by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (“NIST”), in connection with its investigation of the technical causes of the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and World Trade Center Building 7 on September 11,2001, might jeopardize public safety. Therefore, NIST shall not release the following information:

1. All input and results files of the ANSYS 16-story collapse initiation model with detailed connection models that were used to analyze the structural response to thermal loads, break element source code, ANSYS script files for the break elements, custom executable ANSYS file, and all Excel spreadsheets and other supporting calculations used to develop floor connection failure modes and capacities.

2. All input files with connection material properties and all results files of the LS-DYNA 47-story global collapse model that were used to simulate sequential structural failures leading to collapse, and all Excel spreadsheets and other supporting calculations used to develop floor connection failure modes and capacities.
~
Patrick Gallagher Director National Institute of Standards and Technology
Dated: JUL 09 2009
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-07-12/nist-denies-access-wtc-collapse-data

Upon reviewing Powerful Healing Theta Meditation ~ 528Hz, incidental music on Star Trek TNG was beating in nice syntony with it.

How to Control the World with Mind Machines

There is actually something to this one. Bill Watterson covered it thirty years ago. Though I’m not sure the leader of that seminar was thinking along those lines.

On the more humours side (where appropriate):-
“… We may just be seeing the discovery of a new homids species:- Homo Etremus-theorus conspiratus …” (Tiger quote)

“How to Control the World with Mind Machines”

Humans are mind machines. We do control the world, for better or worse. We also replicate. Scary.

Wow…I’ve often wondered what Wakefield and others like him “really” believe vs what’s just part of the act, but now I’m beginning to think that’s a false dichotomy to begin with. Part of me wishes I could get inside his head – and part of me is very, very glad that I can’t.

More magisterial debunking

“When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it’s going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window,” NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition

Yes, the windows on the level of collapse; But these ‘squibs’ were seen thirty floors below the crush-down front. Where did the pulverized debri in the ‘puffs’ originate? Surely it didn’t outrun the crushdown through open stairwell and elevator doors.

Like flushing a line, clear air would blow out of the windows first. And why only one or a couple? By their mechanic, all the windows should blow out where the ‘squibs’ are seen. Also, there were the high-speed ejections before the initiation of collapse.

Magesterial. That is a piss-poor deferral to authority as Herst’s yellow journalism rags are far from ‘authoritative’.

http://www1.ae911truth.org/faqs/585-faq-8-squibs.html

Jeez, I really hate 9/11 Truthers…..the concept of metal weakening as it heats up totally escapes them.

.the concept of metal weakening as it heats up totally escapes them.

All that and a bag of Young’s modulus, Lawrence.

Chris Hickie @ 7:

Therefore, all music should be tuned in 528 hertz, rather than the 440 hertz of standard tuning, which he asserted … — another way of claiming the world is flat?

Oh, that desperately calls for a rimshot! 😀

Eric Lund @ 9:

I don’t know where the Rockefeller Foundation stuff comes from, but according to Wikipedia A440 tuning is an accepted international standard (ISO 16). It is not, however, in universal use: for example, the Berlin Philharmonic uses 443 Hz, while the Boston Symphony Orchestra uses 441 Hz.

Eh, the Rockefellers are one of the go-to groups for conspiracy theorists. And the Rockefeller Foundation has been very important in funding for the arts, particularly classical music.

When I was in college, the orchestra director told me (and perhaps its true, though this smacks of apocryphal) that some orchestras were starting to tune slightly higher than 440 in order to make their music sound brighter than other orchestras. A tactic which would, of course, only last as long as 440 was the standard.

Just for yuks: for our end-of-semester tour, somebody printed up a humorous pamphlet. After the introduction, it said “at the sound of the oboe at 440, please turn the page.” 😛 (As the old yarn goes, you tune to the oboe because the oboe is impossible to tune. I played bassoon, so sympathized with the plight of the double-reed.)

“There is no fiction so outlandish that the human mind cannot weave it into a conspiracy that wins many converts.”

…the concept of metal weakening as it heats up totally escapes them.

I blame it on the fact that shop classes aren’t taught in high school any longer. When you actually have heated metal to make it bend easier, it’s obvious that a few tons of jet fuel could soften the steel structure of a building.

Blacksmiths have been relying on the principle for years. Maybe someday these kid will rediscover it.

And get off my yard.

I find the depth and detail of some of these woo-forms truly astonishing and bizarre. I clicked Science Mom’s link to Horowitz’s site, and discovered hours of potential amusement (if it doesn’t disturb you that you’re reading a ‘real’ site rather than The Onion). Horowitz is more verbose than two each of Orac and sadmar combined, but consistently delivering WTF lulz.

Along the right side of the page there are links to several 528Hz things. At the top is “Oxysilver Immune Support Hydrosol Concentrate With 528”. Here’s just the first part of the 3,356 word copy describing the product:

OXYSILVER with 528 is an effective alternative to risky vaccinations and deadly antibiotics. It promotes vaccine-free natural nutritional immunity against (FDA Censored Word) without immunization toxicity. OXYSILVER is the best selling, most potent silver hydrosol in the world today that is used for protection and recovery.
OXYSILVER is a scientifically tested electro-dynamic silver, oxygen, and hydrogen solution developed to strengthen natural immunity against (FDA Censored Word) and common chronic (FDA Censored Word) largely attributable to weakened immune systems. OXYSILVER is made with pharmaceutical grade purified water, less than 5ppm nano-silver stably bonded to oxygen, and a resonance of 528Hz frequency of sound and 528nm of light (the reason the botanical world is greenish-yellow as selected by chlorophyll); and finally the solution is potentized using the “Breath-of-the-Earth”–Hawaiian holy water, along with prayer.
Technically, OXYSILVER is classified as an oligodynamic silver-oxygen covalently-bonded structured (i.e., clustered) hydrosol, OXYSILVER serve as the world’s first mineral water alternative to risky vaccinations and immunizations that corrupt natural immunity through heavy metal toxicity, autoimmune hypersensitivity, and GMO-associated pathogenesis. OXYSILVER includes unique molecular structuring, atomic resonance energetics, and polarity electrochemistry providing state-of-the art natural, safe and effective (FDA Censored Word). This product destroys (FDA Censored Word); disease forming (FDA Censored Word), (FDA Censored Word), and (FDA Censored Word);while leaving most competitive probiotics additionally protected.
OXYSILVER is a mineral water that is unlike any other silver product ever produced, any broad-spectrum antibiotic in existence, or any energetic nutrient ever developed. Very simply, OXYSILVER is a suspension of electrically charged silver atoms, ionically prepared and combined with oxygen in a most unique way, that is covalently bonded, to energized oxygen atoms. What’s entirely unique about this product is that theoretically it can (FDA Censored Word) and (FDA Censored Word) any (FDA Censored Word) affected by oxygen, which is the vast majority of (FDA Censored Word) from (FDA Censored Word) to (FDA Censored Word). It is an energy delivering, oxygenating, water-based, silver-ionized, frequency resonating formula that can only be produced in a special reactor* that was first developed and tested by NASA scientists for space missions and sustaining life in space when vital oxygen levels are low and (FDA Censored Word) risks are high.

Below that is a link for ‘i528Tunes Netplay’ where you can purchase downloads of a variety of music albums in .MP3 form supposedly ‘transposed’ from 400Hz tuning to 528Hz tuning. Featured artists include Dyan, Hendrix, Springsteen, Bowie, Aretha, The Beasties, Bob Marley and Johnny Cash. The preview snippets of the allegedly transposed tracks sounded identical to the originals to me, but then I don’t have Horowitz’s mastery of physics… The album DLs are $20, and Horowitz is claiming ‘Fair Use’ under the most outre declaration you could imagine (small excerpt):

UNDER FAIR USE COPYRIGHT LAWS, 528Records.com serves as the preeminent source serving to emancipate music and We The People from covert corporate fascist genocidalists that now labor to reduce populations significantly, control biology energetically/electro-genetically, and degrade our planet environmentally.

The inclusion of Hendrix may seem a bit odd for the new-agey ‘vibe’ of 528:

Mathematicians and physicists have now proven 528 vibrates at the heart of the universe, rainbows, God’s heart and yours. 528 “LOVE Hertz” vibrates pure “LOVE energy” to heal what ails you!”

But forget Jimi, as among the vehicles for universal rainbow God’s pure love 528Hz energy on offer by Horowitz are the “Fun House” and “Raw Power” albums by The Stooges. Yup, nothing heals you up like listening to ‘TV Eye’ or ‘Death Trip’.

Sick boy, sick boy goin’ ’round, barely losin’ grip
Baby, wanna take you out with me
Come along on my death trip

Now tell me do you care for me
Once I care for you
Honey, come and be my enemy so I can love you true
A sick boy, sick boy fadin’ out, learnin’ to be cruel
Baby, whip me in the heat, turn me loose on you

Said I’m with you, you’re with me
A-honey we’re going down in history
Said I’m with you, you’re with me
A-honey we’re going down in history
We’re going down
We’re going down

Blow my cool, bite my lip
See me through on my death trip

Hmm… maybe Horowitz has seen God after all….

the concept of metal weakening as it heats up totally escapes them

To say nothing of the concept of a bow wave. As the building collapses, the air between floors has to be pushed out somehow. And that air will not be pristine: there will be soot from the fire, plus whatever dust is generated from such things as pieces of paper left on people’s desks.

Nor is a building a Deacon’s Masterpiece. There is always somewhere a weakest spot. That’s why only one or two windows get blown out: by random chance, if nothing else, they are not held in place as securely as the other windows.

.the concept of metal weakening as it heats up totally escapes them.

It is three black swans on the same day, Lawrence; Can you find one other example of a concrete and steel building collapsing due to fires?

@Eric As the building collapses, the air between floors has to be pushed out somehow. And that air will not be pristine: there will be soot from the fire, plus whatever dust is generated from such things as pieces of paper left on people’s desks.

This is 30 floors we are talking about here. Why wouldn’t the sooty air follow the path of least resistance?

Do you really think that 2 planes can bring down 3 buildings symmetrically and at the speed of gravity?

Show me two other buildings who were also hit with Boeing 737s….suffering from significant structural damage & massive fires due to jet fuel.

Seriously, these 9/11 truthers have many screws loose.

I’d also recommend watching several episodes of “Engineering Disasters.”

There are many instances of buildings – both during and after construction, which suffered from structural collapse in the exact same way – all it takes in the failure of some of the main structural supports, and the floors will pancake & collapse in the similar way.

Jeez, take your nutty conspiracies somewhere else.

it’s obvious that a few tons of jet fuel could soften the steel structure of a building.

Obviously, Johnny #25, that fuel mostly went down the elevator shafts to blow up people in the lobby — or something.

When I was in college, the orchestra director told me (and perhaps its true, though this smacks of apocryphal) that some orchestras were starting to tune slightly higher than 440 in order to make their music sound brighter than other orchestras.

That does indeed work for string instruments, because the higher tension on the string enhances the harmonics. It’s less effective for wind instruments.

As the old yarn goes, you tune to the oboe because the oboe is impossible to tune.

The oboe is sometimes called “the ill wind that no one blows good.”

The preview snippets of the allegedly transposed tracks sounded identical to the originals to me, but then I don’t have Horowitz’s mastery of physics

The difference in frequency between A440 tuning and C528 tuning is less than 1%. For comparison, the frequency difference between neighboring semitones is about 6%. You would have to have a very sensitive ear to hear the difference, especially if the transposed and original versions aren’t playing at the same time. Also, IANAL, but Horowitz’s claim of fair use is almost certainly bogus, given that he’s charging money for the downloads–he’d better be paying royalties to the songwriters and performers, or the RIAA (who have taken people to court over much less) will be after him.

But the kerosene only initiated the fires. They were fueled by all the plastic office equipment and paperwork in it’s respective metal filing cabinates.

Correct – there were literally tons of flammable materials lying around (and disturbed by the crashes) – not to mention that much of the fire-proofing was blown off of the supporting columns by the explosions as well.

The Truthers have to ignore much of what actually happened that day, to make their theories fit inside any size box.

Gotta love the ambush nonsense, complete with a chase.
Personally, had that happened to me, my cane would go behind the far knee and pressure applied to the front of the closest knee, resulting in a spectacular crash to the floor and my cane being firmly set down upon his wee knee.

I have a thing against such aggressive behavior and am infamous for responding poorly.

As for 9-11 truthers, I lost a few friends and one cousin in those towers, I’m even more intolerant of them and their inability to comprehend what needs to be done to cause a controlled implosion – massive amounts of work removing most of the support columns, then drilling through the ones to be explosively cut and explosives placed in the holes.

Yeah, one of my qualifications is in the use of high explosives, all in a military environment. I’ve quite literally used tons of high explosives over the course of my military career.
Leaving me to state quite often, “There is no problem in life that cannot be resolved with the judicious of copious amounts of high explosives”.
And, “I hate loud noises”.
Which leaves me with the desire to never touch, handle or consider utilizing high explosives ever again – too noisy. 😉
I would, however, consider utilizing Nitrowhisperin . 😉
http://getsmart.wikia.com/wiki/Spy,_Spy,_Birdie

Nice list, but I didn’t see any high-rise building collapse from fire. I would say that the majority of that list is the result of earthquakes.

My spidey-sense is tingling . . . I sense a rolling dismissal of similar failures for not being sufficiently similar, right up to the point where only an exactly identical incident can be deemed worthy . . . .

Incidentally, I do notice use of weasel words. “Near total symmetry.” So you admit it wasn’t actually perfectly symmetrical? And, out of curiosity, what other speed are you expecting other than gravity? The collapses did happen on Earth, after all, and it’s difficult to escape the 32 feet per second per second that it imparts on everything at the surface. If anything, you’d think an explosion lower down would have had a decelerating effect (if briefly).

and at the speed of gravity

You really should not be engaging in anything resembling an argument involving physics.

How many other buildings suffered significant damage from falling debris and massive internal fires?

Seriously, it’s all moving of goal-posts….

Place: Philadelphia
Year: 1991
Building: One Meridian Plaza
Cause of problem requiring demolition: Fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza

It didn’t collapse, but was rendered unsafe and prone toward collapse and was eventually demolished.
I remember that one quite well, as the building remained an eyesore for 8 years, with the prospect of collapse creating numerous problems for other businesses in the area.

And it didn’t even need kerosene burning to damage the building beyond repair.
The fuel from the aircraft being around 200000 pounds of jet A, a high grade of kerosene.

And some trivia, the lower the octane rating, the hotter the fuel burns.
Jet A kerosene has an octane rating of approximately 20, avgas an octane rating of 100.
While the kerosene is difficult to initiate under normal conditions most are familiar with, when atomized, it’s easily combusted. That in turn, caused other flammable items to be fully initiated and burn even more hotly.

As a secondary benchmark, the military occasionally uses burn-out latrines in extended usage locations. They consist of a steel drum cut 1/3 down, which is placed over a seating unit to collect excrement (you’ll not be thanked if you urinate into the drum, as that’d have to boil off before the excrement can burn).
A 5:1 mixture of diesel fuel to gasoline is poured onto the excrement and the burning excrement stirred with a stick.
Hence, the origin of “Sh*t end of the stick”, “Sh*t detail”, “Sh*t job”, etc. Yes, there is such a detail, where service members get selected, just like they’d be selected for KP (Kitchen Police) to assist the cooks, some poor SOB’s get to burn poop.
Now, can you imagine how hot the fire is to ignite poop?

One of my “additional duties, as assigned” was battalion field sanitation NCO. Recommending when and how to create burn-out latrines was one part of my duties.
Chlorination of drinking water in Lyster bags and water trailers (water buffalo is the slang name for those) and mess hall inspections were also part of those duties and lead to quite a few battles with various line company cooks and disciplinary action against some of those cooks (including one instance where the majority of an infantry battalion enduring a severe food borne infection, secondary to having field feeding supplied with badly undercooked eggs, served far below safe serving temperatures.
In that instance, our division epidemiologist arrived, presenting a questioner to be filled out for each and every ill soldier, including myself (who was assisting with the investigation). The cook who was responsible was relieved for cause and reclassified into an infantry MOS.
Personally, I had advocated for his reclassification as a terminal in-flight missile guidance specialist, with many senior NCO’s agreeing enthusiastically. As we really don’t have a specialty where someone rides a missile into a target, you can imagine how angry we all were with that idiot’s poor performance as a cook.
Trying to make scrambled eggs in a five gallon pot!
Salmonella sucks!

insolence

noun
rude and disrespectful behavior.
. . . .
So it is considered “insolence” to disagree with the indoctrinated conformist masses according to Orac the anonymous science expert and his bevy of true believers.

\][//

@sadmar: Mr Woo just bought a membership into a woobook advertising company that assures him they will bring him “the latest research Big pHarma doesn’t want him to see,” every month. He assured me it was a great idea because they send him a 550-page book as their thank-you.

But they can’t have that much fun, Orac. Investigation of this with prior bias to sheild from the horror can only lead to the acceptance and painful bucking of its’ truthiness.

what?

Let me help you with that one, Lawrence; The brown cow had speckled spots, some of which were malignant but dissapeared after consuming large amounts of passiflora incarnata and rubbing povadone iodine on it.

Sorry, I thought you were trying to speak English….

But, since you are a Truther, it explains everything.

” the lower the octane rating, the hotter the fuel burns.”
~Wzrd1

Not so. Octane has nothing to do with how hot fuel burns, it has to do with the ignition point of a fuel.
\][//

I blame it on the fact that shop classes aren’t taught in high school any longer.

Where? They’re about all my brother took in high school a decade or so ago; well, besides work release.

…and now he works for the railroad on bridges, knows enough from construction jobs to build his own garage, makes good money, etc… and then there’s me.

Mathematicians and physicists have now proven 528 vibrates at the heart of the universe, rainbows, God’s heart and yours. 528 “LOVE Hertz” vibrates pure “LOVE energy” to heal what ails you!”

It’s like a far less endearing version of Dr. Bronner’s word.

(“ALL-ONE OR NONE! ALL-ONE! ALL-ONE!”)

Gilbert and John Hutchinson:
For every fire fighter who died going up the stairs:
Go. To. Hell.
Your desire to be special by being the only ones “in the know” about 9/11 degrades the heroism and suffering of all the people who were there that day. Have you no decency to have some respect for the dead?

Have you ever spoken with a survivor? Heard their experience in their own words? You play with other people’s pain.

And your ignorance is *astounding*. Stone castles have collapsed from the damage from fire; why shouldn’t a steel building?

Thanks for the nightmares, I really love people bringing this stuff up again.

@Justatech

Obvious controlled demolition. Don’t appeal to emotion, it has no place here. Thousands of Architects and Engineers will go on record agreeing with me, and probably tens of thousands more who agree but won’t go on record.

Your ignorance is astounding Justatard. Name one steel building that was brought down by fire; you can’t! It has never happened.

Name one building that has collapsed symmetrically into it’s own footprint without the judicious use of explosives?

John, what I want to say is something so thoroughly laced with obscenities as to melt most computer screens.
However, I’ll also mention, I am retired military and an explosive demolitions expert. I have worked with, quite literally, many, many tons of explosives over the decades.
First and foremost, one has to remove many, many (read: most) support columns in a structure to be imploded. We’re speaking of thousands of dump truck loads of concrete and steel being somehow removed and never observed by workers in the building, over the course of weeks, as removal must occur at each floor of the structure.
So, someone removed all of the walls on each floor, removed the columns, replaced the walls and left det cord strung invisibly all throughout the entire structure, without anyone working there not tripping over it.
Det cord, aka detonating cord, is typically an RDX explosive core cord, used to tie explosives together, so that all detonate at essentially, the same moment. Timers and blasting caps just don’t cut it, too variable in the amount of time needed to synchronize detonation.

Oh, BTW, I still have a security clearance, I’ve held one for my entire adult life and frankly, I find it laughable that no workers have “spilled the beans” in a nation infamous for its sheer inability to retain a single secret and that secret, somehow being hidden from me. I’m on so damned many bigot lists, it’s actually a topic of humor among my peers!

Your conspiracy theories are about as a pure example of Dunning-Kruger as can be found, laughable as the “mini-nuke” conspiracy theory (odd, no radiation at all, no residual radiation and indeed, contact with a fissioning mass would cause transmitted radioactivity. Maybe it’s antimatter? A gram would do great, if you ignore the resultant 42 kiloton blast that’d have leveled Manhattan.
Thermite, another perennial favorite, burns downward, not sideways, so you’d need antigravity.

As I said, one removes alternate columns throughout the entire structure, drill and emplace explosives inside of the remaining columns (multiple devices per column to cut it effectively, tie the entire mess together with miles of det cord, all while having that quarter inch det cord being invisible, the concrete and still removal also concealed, no dust left about or even dusty boot prints – on every damned floor of the building!
Oh, to add to that, silently doing so, which cutting concrete and steel columns most certainly is not!
And the cases and cases of mythical explosives all disappeared once the explosives were removed, an entire warehouse load of boxes disappeared. Teleported?

No, I know! Magic!
All, while paralyzing our economy until Wall Street set up temporary operations offsite, billions of dollars of lost trade, billions of dollars of missing gold stored in the building, all because of Christ knows what?
Rather than following Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation is the correct one.

Excuse me, but the word jackass has repeated crossed my mind in reference to you and I really must apologize to the beast that owns that name by associating you with it.

So, how exactly “is” a building supposed to collapse?

The Twin Towers were struck by large commercial aircraft traveling at several hundred miles per hour, resulting in near immediate fatal damage to the towers internal structure….luckily, there was enough support left to keep the buildings up for a lot longer than the engineers would have thought they’d be.

The resulting fires, combined with the impact damage, was more than enough to result in complete structural collapse – which proceeding in the way that any structural engineer would expect – straight down.

As each floor collapsed on to the one beneath it, it caused a chain reaction of failures, over and over again.

Building 7, on the other hand, suffered significant damage from debris from both towers – which was exacerbated by large scale fires.

All available evidence & all reputable structural engineers agree that the buildings did exactly what they were designed to do, until the stresses of the damage to their internal structure became too great.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a49/1227842/

John Hutchinson @59:
Thank you for being so very clear that all you care about is your theory being ‘right’. Also, points for a new way to turn my ‘nym into an insult!

One of my observations of the topics from the Woo Boat is that they tend to fall into two categories: generally harmless, and harmful to the believers and those around them. Bigfoot? Harmless (you’ll get some exercise). Taxes are optional? Harmful (you’ll go to jail). Antivax? Harmful to yourself and others (spread and suffer from diseases).

9/11 Truthers are in the middle – they are very harmful to the people who suffered directly or indirectly from the 9/11 attacks, but no one will get sick, spend out their life savings, or go to jail about it. It is like the woman quoted in the PM story, who was distraught after another cruise-goer insisted that the Holocaust her mother survived never happened.

So I get it John, you (and Gilbert) enjoy the emotional rise you get out of the rest of us when you deny the basics of the most deadly terrorist attack on American soil. Or maybe you say it because you genuinely can’t imagine that other people would try to kill ordinary people like you and me. Hopefully very few of us here know what that feels like. So you choose to diminish that feeling by saying that it was all faked.

Guess what? It’s been 15 years and you’re still wrong.

Skyline Towers: Cause; Building collapse due to premature removal of shoring.

Harbor Cay Condominiums: The collapse was due to numerous errors in design and construction. The concrete slabs were only 200 mm (eight inches) thick and should have been 280 mm (eleven inches) thick to satisfy the American Concrete Institute’s Building Code minimum. The plastic chair spacers used to support the slab steel were 108 mm (4 ¼ inches) high, which coupled with the thin slabs led to a very small effective depth.[1]

The Harbor Cay building was not a steel-framed building. This was just reinforced concrete with terrible engineers. The Skyline Tower had a collapsed balcony section. This is truly a terrible example.

[email protected]: Poop Fires Can’t Melt Truther Brains!!!!!1!1!!!

John [email protected]: “Don’t appeal to emotion, it has no place here. Thousands of Architects and Engineers will go on record agreeing with me, and probably tens of thousands more who agree but won’t go on record.”

Hahahahah. You’ll never guess what else has no place here. Twunt.

Lawrences copypasta from Popular Mechanics; with Marinara Sauce:

….luckily, there was enough support left to keep the buildings up for a lot longer than the engineers would have thought they’d be.

Not these engineers: http://www.ae911truth.org/about.html

The resulting fires, combined with the impact damage, was more than enough to result in complete structural collapse – which proceeding in the way that any structural engineer would expect – straight down.

No engineer would expect this to happen. As the tallest building in the world, these buildings were designed to withstand a Boeing 747 impact.

As each floor collapsed on to the one beneath it, it caused a chain reaction of failures, over and over again.

Dumb. There was not enough energy for the top 1/3rd to collapse the lower 2/3rd. Even if there was, say the planes hit half-way up, then would not get a free-fall acceleration.

Building 7, on the other hand, suffered significant damage from debris from both towers – which was exacerbated by large scale fires.

Not nearly as significant of the four infernos that I had listed previously. This building fell in an odd manner, like the bottom beams were severed first. If this were the case, it would be the first case of a steel-framed building collapsing from fire. Smurfs don’t even believe in this sh!t.

All available evidence & all reputable structural engineers agree that the buildings did exactly what they were designed to do, until the stresses of the damage to their internal structure became too great.

Not true. Her are 2,609 reputable engineers that disagree completely with the NIST whitewash: http://www.ae911truth.org/about.html

How thrilling, Johnny!
2609 “engineers”, out of between 300000 and 400000.
Hey, what is a minority again?
Why is ignoring explosive demolitions experts a bad thing when discussing explosive demolitions again? Hogan’s Heroes nonsense claiming to prevail, perhaps?
Or worse, an entire repeal of the laws of physics.

I lost several friends in the WTC collapse, I also lost a cousin there as well. I lost more friends in our wars.
So, it’s a major sore point with me, as sore as telling a holocaust survivor’s family members that the holocaust never happened.
As in, had you said this to my face, you’d be dead. I’m being very, very serious here. I’d crush your trachea, then torture you while your airway is blocked.
I try to be a nice guy, but there’s a part of me that is far from nice, it’s a true monster that I previously only released on occasion in war.
I’ve rarely been this angered online, as in, numbering on one hand and still having room to type 45 WPM.
You’ve added to that number today.
Perhaps, it’s wise to retire from the field.

@Wzrd1

A death threat? Seriously?

I am just saying that a fire wasn’t sufficient to take down Building 7. How many architects can you list that endorse the NIST report? If you want to crush someone’s trachea, why don’t you go after the people responsible for the attack.

Just because only 2600 have come forward, does not mean that the amount of Engineers that don’t believe the NIST report is only 2600

This is likely much, much higher.

Oh, all, please do excuse my general irritability.
For one part, erroneous instructions that appear to have been a duplicate communication on thyroid medicine dosage reduction occurred, quartering my dosage, where halving it was desired.
On another part, my wife had her gallbladder removed and a umbilical hernia repaired, secondary to a 30+ year c-section scar suddenly failing and “unzipping” itself. She fell, after return to home after day surgery and I managed to catch her, causing a possible disc herniation of a previously 30 year plus bulging disc. That’s resulted in painful spasms in both calves, falls that are only prevented via the aforementioned cane and overall, misery. That’s checked with hydrocodone, 10 mg caplets provided, half or one, I’m sticking with 5 mg and am ignoring the “muscle relaxer” tablets, as both are CNS depressants and as that’s the mode of operation of a “muscle relaxer” and the pain medication is effective in refracting spasms *and* some severe personality alterations with the “muscle relaxer”, yeah, it sucks, we’re dealing and I’m staying away from the tizanidine.
So, I’m feeling out of sorts and worse, some SOB turned up the gravity on me. 😉

I like the “nice me” over the other creature that I do my level best to keep buried.
Indeed, I hate that side of me intensely. It’s a part of me, that doesn’t mean that I have to like that part, just acknowledge it and refuse, to the best of my ability, to let it out to cause harm.
Add in, my wife has advanced osteoporosis, something previously hidden by our former primary physician and it’s caused several vertebral fractures that have healed and two new fractures, stress is at an all time high.
For, she also has every cervical disc impinging upon her spinal cord and L5-S1 is trying its level best to crush the cauda equina (in lumbar spine land, there is no spinal cord, it branches, but is in the same sheath as the spinal cord and hence, isn’t considered spinal cord). Without surgery, there’s a real chance of either death via asphyxiation or paralysis.
Surgery that’s impossible until the osteoporosis is successfully treated.

So, I’m rather a bit, erm, tense. In this, I’ve noticed how that nearly got the better of me, resulting in harm to a couple of others.
For, I very nearly did offer a reward for logs, head and hands of two individuals. Something not out of character in a military environment against terrorists, but entirely out of character for me at home.
I thought I had that critter chained up in adamentine chains and encased in concrete and left in an abyssal trench.
So, it seems, I have some more work to do, repressing that part of myself.
For, I far prefer the side that babies trust, even a dik-dik trusted me to feed it from my very own hands and everyone loved to be around.

A fire can damn well take down a building if it burns hot and long enough. Heat from the plane fuel and secondary fires weakened the metal/joints in buildings 1 and 2 within 1-2 hours, causing their collapse. The building 7 fire burned much longer about 9 hours–plenty of time to bring it down. As someone with a bachelor’s degree in physics, what parts of heating metals (softening them greatly) and gravity (wanting to pull down all buildings and able to do so once a building has been severely structurally weakened) do you stupid truthers not understand? It’s amazing every building in that whole area didn’t come down that day, and it doesn’t take some stupid ridiculous gubmint ‘spiracy to make it happen.

@ Chris Hickie

What part of no precedent don’t you understand?

There have been hotter and longer fires in steel framed buildings that are still used! The Mandarin Oriental was completely gutted, but the architect decided that the main steel was undamaged.

I think the University should revoke your Bachelors Degree in Physics with that comment.

Please look at videos of Building 7’s collapse. There is no way to explain this collapse by a relatively small fire.

Or, more likely, Herr Doktor knows the Dunning-Kruger problem and being not within an associated field, declines participation in things he knows little to nothing about.

“Hotter and longer” is rather subjective. Do you have thermal readings of the heated beams to discuss, or just a vague and subjective claim?

Death threat? I said, say that to my face, it’s unlikely that I’d retain control and the results would be unfortunate.
There’s another side of me, paying for assassination, I’ve rejected that as beyond unacceptable, as I’m not dealing with a terrorist, just an idiot.
Again, 2600 vs between an order of magnitude and spare change more and greater. Are you trying to tell me that 300k – 400k engineers are silent, but represented by a sparse 2600?! Seriously?! See that idiot part again, look up idiot, then learn what precisely Dunning-Kruger effect actually is.
Seriously! This is worse than having a double helping of moron milk poured onto a triple helping of stupid flakes in the morning.
As, you’ve entirely failed to grasp the concept of a minuscule minority vs a majority.
You’ve also failed to note, I have a clearance, I review classified information each and every day, not a hint of such a massive operation is present and our nation is infamous for being incapable of retaining any significant secret.
Hell, Congress has been leaking all manner of classified data in the Clinton mail server nonsense, resulting in one loss of life.
Oh wait, the space aliens really wanted him dead or something.

Seriously, I’m in a battle of wits against the unarmed.
Meanwhile, I have to be at work at midnight Eastern time.
You’re not worth the effort and I do need at least a resident’s amount of sleep.

Or ignoring the part where large sections of the building was damaged by the collapse of the Twin Towers.

Do you think that any vertical steel beams were severed by that damage, or just windows?

Did you know that Building 6 had much more damage but remained standing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mamvq7LWqRU

If anyone can watch this building and believe in the NIST report, then there is something amiss…

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