Categories
Medicine Politics Pseudoscience Skepticism/critical thinking

No, there is no evidence that Hillary Clinton has Parkinson’s disease

Remember Vox Day?

Vox Day is the pseudonym used by a truly vile man named Theodore Beale. I first encountered him 11 years ago on the precursor to this blog, thanks to his antivaccine stylings and outright misogyny. Later, I learned the depths of his wingnuttery, such as his accepting pseudoscientific claims that vaccines cause sudden infant death syndrome, and several others. Hilariously, his anti-science rants are inevitably accompanied by smug posturing about how scientists are arrogant (pot, kettle, black) and how science is a corrupt system that is ideologically driven (talk about projection). Basically, he seizes on any criticism of how science is practiced as an excuse to attack science itself. That doesn’t even take into account his odious suggestion, ten years before Donald Trump made it, that we should forcibly eject 11 million immigrants here illegally, because, hey, it worked for Hitler. It was a “classic” that briefly made Vox too much of a wingnut for WorldNetDaily. Sadly, the Overton window appears to have shifted, such that Vox would no longer be too much of a wingnut for many publications.

It’s not surprising, then, that Vox is a Donald Trump supporter.

Also, given his history of accepting any crank science or medicine that fits into his preconceived world view, that Vox has also jumped onto the “Hillary is unfit to serve” bandwagon. Three weeks ago, I noted two very unhelpful and bordering on despicable misuses of medicine, both involving armchair diagnoses of political candidates. First, there was the tendency of those on the left to assign psychiatric diagnoses to Donald Trump. That was bad enough, but what Trump supporters were doing was arguably worse, namely insinuating all sorts of dark conspiracies to hide serious illness in Hillary Clinton. The “evidence” used upon which the various “diagnoses” assigned to Clinton has been risibly lean, but that didn’t stop wingnuts like Dr. Jane Orient and Dr. Gerard Gianoli, both of the crank doctors’ organization the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS). Basically, based on pure speculation, they did some fine JAQing off and asked if Clinton had post-concussive syndrome from a concussion and a cerebral venous thrombosis suffered after falling when she was ill with the flu in 2012 and from which she appears to have made a full recovery. There have also been insinuations that she has Parkinson’s disease, based on…basically nothing.

I guess it should come as no surprise that Vox is totally down with that observation because…”experts.” It’s hilarious to me how Vox castigates legitimate experts who point out that his beliefs are nonsense, but says this about people who support his beliefs, like Dr. Ted Noel, an anesthesiologist who has concluded through a fair amount of contortions of logic, that Hillary Clinton “probably” has Parkinson’s disease:

That is the conclusion of a a board-certified Anesthesiologist with 36 years of experience, backed up by the observations of a) a victim of Parkinson’s Disease and b) a registered nurse who cares for patients with Parkinson’s Disease.

First off, being a “board-certified anesthesiologist” has little or nothing to do with expertise in neurology or Parkinson’s disease. Yet, note how Vox emphasizes that he has 36 years of experience, presumably at anesthesia. I’m sure he’s a perfectly capable anesthesiologist, but he’s no more qualified to diagnose Parkinson’s disease than any other non-neurologist, probably less, given his high degree of specialization. Yet, none of that stops him from posting a ridiculous video:

And an equally ridiculous article to go with it:

Noel is hilarious. He claims that he does “exactly what the CIA” does and looks at publicly available records to determine if there is a story that fits the observations. Here’s the problem. He gets the method backwards in that what he does is to start with the story he wants to tell and then cherry picks bits of information and video to weave together to tell that story, namely that Clinton has Parkinson’s disease. He begins with the standard conspiracy theories, going back to 2005 when Clinton fainted onstage. Particularly silly is one point where Noel recounts an episode where Clinton fell down and struck her head, noting that to strike your head falling requires a “complete loss of protective reflexes” and that dehydration from an illness isn’t enough to do it:

It explains every one of the items listed above. Further, since it is a diagnosis primarily made by observation, the video record is sufficient to create a high degree of certainty.

The 2009 fall where HRC broke her elbow suggests that she had working protective reflexes, and her arm took the brunt of the fall. But three years later, she had a catastrophic fall where her reflexes were unable to help her. It is notable that this fall took place at home, where she would have been unstressed and in a familiar setting. Failing reflexes are common in PD. Poor balance is also common in PD, and a fall without working protective reflexes is a prescription for head injury. Her subsequent concerns with transverse sinus thrombosis are plausibly related to the fall. Her need for fresnel lens glasses also fits with post-concussion syndrome.

Uh, no. It happens all the time. People fall and hit their heads. Noel is really stretching here. There were a total of three falls, and Noel stretches to claim that the first one was due to early Parkinson’s, the second one due to a Parkinson’s freeze. Noel keeps going on and on about how “I am not her treating physician” but that Parkinson’s is the most likely explanation for Clinton’s behavior and that she is a politician who “lies about everything.”

His next bit of speculation is that a month after Clinton’s concussion she was experiencing occasional confusion, which he at least concedes is not uncommon after a concussion, but then he goes full on conspiracy wingnut. For instance, he shows video of Clinton nodding her head, pointing to that as evidence of Parkinson’s disease. Never mind that it’s something she’s done for a very long time, going back to the 1990s. To Noel, this isn’t just an odd tic; it’s a Parkinson’s tremor. Now, I’ve seen Parkinson’s tremors. Not surprisingly, Noel pulls up the video of Hillary with an exaggerated startle response, which Noel attributes to levodopa-induced dyskinesia. No, it’s not. I find it quite telling that nowhere in the video does Noel show video of actual Parkinson’s disease tremors or levodopa-induced dyskinesia to compare with Hillary Clinton’s movements. If he did, it would become obvious that Clinton’s behaviors are neither of these things.

Then there’s this:

PD is a chronic disease with a downhill prognosis. HRC’s instability and frequent cough suggest that her PD is advanced. This is not a good outlook for someone running for the Presidency. The office of the President is one of the highest stress jobs in the world. Stress sets off PD episodes, which render the sufferer incapable of proper response.

At this point, a bit of speculation seems appropriate. HRC talks about her yoga sessions. But no one we know of has ever documented one. It is possible that this is cover for sessions designed to teach her coping mechanisms for PD or for rest breaks. Exhaustion makes PD worse.

HRC’s coughing suggests that her swallowing disorder is advanced, placing her closer to an aspiration pneumonia that would disable or kill her. That’s bad enough, but PD has one more, even more dangerous step in its progression.

As PD continues, cognitive problems can develop. In time, they become full-blown dementia. The United States cannot survive if its President is mentally impaired.

Yes, the cough thing. Since I last wrote about this, conspiracy theorists have started to point out that Hillary Clinton coughs a lot. That’s prompted me to point out that I, too, cough a lot, because I have seasonal allergies and frequently get bronchitis in the wintertime and have for as long as I can remember. People who have seen me give talks certain times of the year probably noted that I usually had at least a low grade cough. Now think of it this way. Clinton has been on the campaign trail for over a year and a half, giving as many as several talks a day and, when not giving speeches, is forced to speak with campaign staff, donors, and others. So what if she has a cough? I bet if you looked hard enough you could find video of Donald Trump coughing or, going to past elections, Barack Obama or Mitt Romney coughing. Constant public speaking can do that.

No one seems to be asking if Newt Gingrich has Parkinson’s, even though he coughed as he wondered if Clinton’s coughing meant she was seriously ill.

Parkinson’s disease is indeed a serious, progressive, degenerative neurologic disease. Perhaps the best indication that Clinton almost certainly does not have Parkinson’s disease is how carefully Noel and the peddlers of this particular conspiracy theory had to cherry pick video of Clinton to find brief snippets that they could point to as Parkinson’s-associated tremors, “brain freeze,” and levodopa-induced dyskinesia. As Steve Novella, a board-certified neurologist, pointed out when I was on The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe three weeks ago, the exaggerated startle response pointed to by Noel is not a Parkinsonian freeze, nor was it dystonia or a seizure. As Novella points out, Parkinson’s is an “across the room” diagnosis that is easy for a trained neurologist to recognize, particularly if it is advanced, which, remember, is what Noel is claiming.

Ever wonder why none of these videos shows actual patients with Parkinson’s disease with dyskinesia or resting tremors for comparison? (And, no, a static photo of Michael J. Fox looking “bug-eyed” doesn’t count.) Ever wonder why, out of literally thousands of hours of video of Hillary Clinton taken over the last two years and then before, when she was Secretary of State, that these few snippets of video that can be tortured to sort of look like Parkinson’s disease symptoms are the best that Dr. Noel (and before him, Martin Shkreli and Dr. Jane Orient) could come up with? Did you ever wonder why not a single board-certified neurologist has stepped forward and say, “Yeah, that looks like Parkinson’s”? The reason is simple. It doesn’t. Those startled looks are not dyskinesia, and that head bob is probably a nervous tic, not resting tremor. Seriously. Advanced Parkinson’s disease is not something you can hide when you’re on video hundreds, if not thousands, of hours a year. It’s just not. the very fact that these few snippets of video are the best that the conspiracy mongers can come up with is excellent evidence that Hillary Clinton does not have Parkinson’s disease. If she had Parkinson’s disease, it would have been noticed long ago by someone other than a greedy pharmaceutical entrepreneur, the CEO of a crank physician organization, or an anesthesiologist with a political agenda who asks near the end of his video about who would run the country if Hillary Clinton were incapacitated and then shows a photo like this:

Bill Clinton

Yep, he insinuates. It’ll be Bill Clinton running the country again. Of course, the Constitution declares the line of succession, and if Hillary Clinton were elected and were to become incapacitated, her Vice President, Tim Kaine, would assume the duties of the Presidency, Dr. Noel’s insinuation that if he were to do so the Clintons would “lose their juice,” not withstanding or his “question” wondering whether Clinton had a “freeze” during the Benghazi attack and that’s why it was such a disaster. (I just knew he’d manage to work Benghazi in there somewhere.)

Insinuations about the health of political candidates and leaders is nothing new. However, these conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton’s health from the fever swamps of Alex Jones territory take it to a level I do not recall ever having seen before. No wonder Vox Day eats them up. As brilliant as he thinks he is, he is the living embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect and the arrogance of ignorance.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

594 replies on “No, there is no evidence that Hillary Clinton has Parkinson’s disease”

He asks the question at the video, while apparently never realizing that the Constitution has already provided the answer.
He also claimed that having a POTUS with dementia would be fatal to the nation, yet we somehow managed to survive Reagan.

Frankly, as far as I’m concerned, every physician who wants to diagnose a candidate from online videos and even television videos in a diagnosis that’s far afield of their specialty should have their state board take a shredder to their license.
For one, they’re trying to diagnose something outside of their field of expertise, based upon low resolution video clips. That shows a mind boggling lack of good judgement.

My response:

Dear Dr Noel – I’m so embarassed that you apparently spout off all this nonsense not realizing that the Constitution has already stated how issues of succession are to be managed. Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but no, Mr Clinton would not take over if Mrs Clinton becomes incapacitated. The Vice President would. (Surely you are old enough to remember Nixon’s resignation – Gerald Ford, who was VP, was sworn in, not Pat Nixon).

And diagnosing someone without having them as your patient is very unprofessional. Or else, that means I can diagnose you with delusions of grandeur and possible flights of fancy, maybe from exposure to too many anesthesia drugs.

Lay off the nitrous, doc, and do your job. Let Hillary’s actual personal physician do their job.

Well, nitrous oxide does deplete vitamin B12, which can cause psychiatric issues… 😉

Seems like every year the White House releases the results of the current Presidents annual physical exam (e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/08/us/politics/document-president-obama-medical-exam.html?_r=0 ) .

Is this a requirement that the President have an annual physical and that the results be publicly disclosed? And (somewhat cynically) would what is disclosed necessarily be complete and accurate given the concern that enemies of the US might try and exploit a medical diagnosis of the President if disclosed?

I too have been annoyed at the armchair diagnosis of Trump for two reasons. It gives him an out to explain his behavior and vilifies people with similar diagnoses. Trump is an evil, racist bigot without a shred of human decency. His ability to convince others to agree with him is far more worrying than finding a root cause.

From an insurance company website: “More than 662,000 of adults who suffered from falls in 2010 [in the USA] were hospitalized due to non-fatal fall injuries.”
People tumble at their homes like bowling pins all the time, but Clinton’s accident was because of Parkinson’s… Makes sense.

Obviously, looking at her birth certificate did not work this time.

#6, my wife took a spill in the house a week ago. Maybe we should show case reports and a hashtag, #NotParkinsons.
For her, it’s herniated discs, a misstep and a poorly placed treat jar.
A couple of weeks before, I took a spill, as the cat was overjoyed to see me and knocked my cane out of my hand as I was just ready to put weight on it. #NotParkonsons.
The cat took a spill, when misjudging the distance to the chair. #NotParkinsons
A Carolina Anole was climbing up our sunroom window and lost his footing, #NotParkinsons.

Falls are rather common and rarely due to one single medical condition.

@ MI Dawn
I am quite disappointed to learn that Monica would not take over if both Mr and Mrs Clinton become incapacitated.

Orac got it wrong.

This doctor who has diagnosed HRC’s hidden illness is a “board-certified Anesthesiologist with 36 years of experience”

Now if he wasn’t board-certified I might doubt she has Parkinson’s, but you can’t argue with board certification. I also know of a tree specialist certified by the International Board of Arboriculture who has come to the same conclusion.

I’d take a Clinton with poor health (even if such were true) over the little-fingered One.

There are also much worse things than Clinton filling in for Clinton in spite of how silly this is–as pointed out above. It would make more sense than Melania filling in for He who has not really given us ANY health-related information.

As a board-certified anesthesiologist, I can state quite confidently that the American Board of Anesthesiology frowns upon any of its diplomates diagnosing a patient without doing a comprehensive history and physical examination. Moreover, I suspect that my board would agree that diagnosing a patient with Parkinson’s Disease is outside our scope of practice.

That’s very likely true, but if you have an MD, state laws don’t really restrict your license to practice. If an anesthesiologist wanted to start treating Parkinson’s patients, he could, although it’s unlikely insurance companies would pay him for it or hospitals would accredit him to do that.

@DB

Don’t forget to emphasize the 36 years of experience. That’s the same argument Dr. Jay uses to back up his fact-free assertions, and we all know he’s spot on.

I’m reminded of another conspiracy theory bandied about: that Clinton pays off her doctors to report a clean bill of health, and anyone who might disclose anything to the contrary is killed. There are whole websites devoted to the alleged “trail of bodies” left behind by the Clintons.

You are being willfully blind and it makes a blog called “scienceblogs” look exactly the opposite.
It took all but an hour to thoroughly research Parkinsons symptoms and review all the photos and videos of Hillary acting strangely. Although a diagnosis cannot be made, there is ample evidence that she has Parkinsons. She even uses known coping mechanisms. The symptoms line up extremely well.

At the very least the public deserves a real medical report, and a recent one. I wager she will never ever release this because she doesnt in fact have Parkinsons. No one can look at that head bobbing video and with a straight face tell me there is nothing seriously wrong with her.

That last thing in the world I want to see is Trump elected, but if Hillary is being power hungry and selfish, doesnt step aside in time, is discovered and Trump wins im going to be pissed. If she stepped aside now, Sanders would win in a landslide. She could give this race to the Republicans by hiding her disease until its too late.

If she starts head bobbing and freezing like a moron when Trump viciously attacks her during the debates, its all over. If she has Parkinsons and is having a bad day, debating Trump is a nightmare scenario for her. It would trigger tremors, etc. Probably why she has been avoiding news conferences like the plague.

You are being willfully blind and it makes a blog called “scienceblogs” look exactly the opposite.
It took all but an hour to thoroughly research Parkinsons symptoms and review all the photos and videos of Hillary acting strangely. Although a diagnosis cannot be made, there is ample evidence that she has Parkinsons. She even uses known coping mechanisms. The symptoms line up extremely well.

No, they don’t. Ever wonder why none of these videos shows actual Parkinson’s disease patients in action for comparison? (And, no, a static photo of Michael J. Fox looking “bug-eyed” doesn’t count.) Ever wonder why, out of literally thousands of hours of video of Hillary Clinton taken over the last two years and then before, when she was Secretary of State, that these few snippets of video that can be tortured to sort of look like Parkinson’s disease symptoms are the best that Dr. Noel (and before him, Martin Shkreli and Dr. Jane Orient) could come up with? Did you ever wonder why not a single board-certified neurologist has stepped forward and say, “Yeah, that looks like Parkinson’s”? The reason is simple. It doesn’t. Those startled looks are not dyskinesia, and that head bob is probably a nervous tic, not resting tremor. Seriously. Advanced Parkinson’s disease is not something you can hide when you’re on video hundreds, if not thousands, of hours a year. It’s just not. the very fact that these few snippets of video are the best that the conspiracy mongers can come up with is excellent evidence that Hillary Clinton does not have Parkinson’s disease.

Remember twenty years ago when everyone was insinuating that it was Hilary running the White House.

Eric: your argument appears to boil down to “I think she has Parkinsons, so you’re all idiots.” Would you kindly go tell Steven Novella that? He’s a neurologist, the discipline that actually and in fact diagnoses people with Parkinson’s, as opposed to an anesthesiologist, the discipline that keeps people comfortable and alive during surgery.

MI Dawn:
“Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but no, Mr Clinton would not take over if Mrs Clinton becomes incapacitated. The Vice President would.”

To give him the absolute barest thinnest benefit of the doubt, he might be remembering FDR. He was in very bad shape towards the end of his presidency, due to post-polio syndrome, and his wife Eleanor quietly handled a lot of business for him. This was kept out of the public eye just as much as his illness was, to avoid people losing confidence in the President during wartime.

Except I suspect that if Noel is anything like Vox Day, this is not the case. Vox Day is a notorious misogynist; he does not believe it possible for a woman to run the country, therefore she must be a front for a man. (And, of course, he takes pains to reference his philandering too. Because we don’t want a philanderer in office. We should vote in a serial monogamist who surrounds himself with beautiful women other than his wives, and who publicly lusts after his own daughter instead, I guess, because surely that man isn’t a philanderer. Or something.)

GiJoel — yeah, that thought occurred to me to. It’s rather amusing irony. 😉

No one can look at that head bobbing video and with a straight face tell me there is nothing seriously wrong with her.

If you look at the video, especially individual frames, one can see any number of people with distorted looks on their faces. Does everyone have some kind of neurological disorder? These attempts to diagnose politicians they don’t like is asinine. I don’t know who’s worse, numpty laypeople like Eric S here or physicians using their non-expert credentials.

I’m surprised there aren’t more diagnoses for Clinton based on the countless hours of video evidence available to the public. You know, for the important stuff like secretly practicing satanism, being born in Kenya, or actually being a lizard person or whatever the current conspiracy fads might be. With enough cherry picking, anything is possible.

Wait. Weird movements on one side, bizarre hair on the other, cunning conspiracies all over and everyone secretly being aliens… that’s it! Clinton is secretly Trump! It all makes sense! They’re really the same person, and the entire presidential election is nothing more than one grand conspiracy to put Clintrump in the oval office no matter who wins! Rise up, people of the United States! Rise up and safeguard our democracy!

Hey, that explains the short fingers! 😉
He’s really a she or she’s a he or something.
Yeah, or something. 😉 *

*When I close with “Or something”, see that wheelbarrow full of hyperbole over there. 😉
Or something.

The quickest way to determine whether this is nonsense – or not – is to shoot and post video of a clinical test where Hillary is subjected to strobe lights.

Ah, but doesn’t a press conference quite resemble a strobe light test?
Especially for Trump, for the lights start flashing whenever he says something outrageous, which is… Always.

Oh, USAToday had a series of interviews in solid red voting counties, with plenty of disgust from the voters. A choice between Trump (yack!) and Clinton (no way!) and “I don’t know what I’ll do, but not Trump”.

In other disturbing news, a teen wants to refuse further treatment of her terminal condition, as she’s constantly in pain and only one end in sight, alas, special interest groups are fighting (complete with CPS calls) and an autistic child was murdered by his mother, while she was intoxicated on Meth. Once she sobered up, she admitted to the crime and expressed extreme horror and disgust in her own actions.

And diagnosing someone without having them as your patient is very unprofessional.

But sadly, not unprecedented, including the part about using such a diagnosis for political purposes. Recall that about ten years ago, then Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, MD, was making a ludicrously incorrect diagnosis of Terry Schiavo from video being shown on the Senate floor. (I would have used “hilariously” there, but the Schiavo case was no laughing matter.)

For the last 25 years one of the best ways to gain insight into what Republicans are up to is to look at what they are accusing Democrats of. So I will venture to guess that Donald Trump is concealing something about his medical condition. Since I am not an MD, I will refrain from speculating about what exactly that might be. I’ll just note that Trump is so vain, he probably thinks the old Carly Simon song is about him.

Yep. Both sides do it. They did it with John McCain in 2008 and his history of melanoma, for instance. This year, it’s primarily Trump supporters doing it. I do notice that, for the most part, Hillary Clinton supporters seem to have toned down the psychiatric armchair diagnoses since the criticism reached a certain level.

Off topic, but I mentioned above. 14 year old girl with type 2 spinal muscular atrophy wants to go into hospice. Various groups fighting her. Agony is OK, hospice isn’t.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/09/06/teens-plan-die-has-disability-groups-seeking-intervention/89936822/

Mom on meth kills her blind, autistic son.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/09/06/police-mom-admits-killing-her-blind-autistic-teen/89943230/

Y’know, I don’t specifically know if Clinton has Parkinson’s or some other disorder or not, but just saying I knew someone who fell once, and they didn’t have Parkinson’s really is just sticking one’s head in the sand.

The real issue at hand is how creepily extreme the bias in favor of Clinton is. It’s not just the usual liberal media bias. The shilling CNN and others are doing for Clinton is way scary over the top. Don’t any of you liberals wonder what’s/who’s ultimately behind that at all? Do you really think it’s a bunch of enlightened visionaries fighting for the common man? Seriously, has that been your experience?

No, John, we realize that people slip on slick steps.
My wife falls quite frequently, it goes with damage from a disc compressing her spinal cord.
I’ve had my own spills, one not all that long ago when the cat knocked my cane out of my hand just as I was setting it in mid-stride to place my weight on it.
Neither my wife or I have any sign of parkinsonism. Just fouled up backs.
Is Ms Clinton’s quite a bit older than we are, we’d expect a few missteps.
Of course, if Trump did the same, anyone capturing the event on video or still photo would be stuck in court and stuck with a gag order.

Now, here’s the fun thing. Our Constitution has no health clause at all. Period. Nobody made a thing about FDR’s health and he was quite frail in some ways. Hell, he died of a stroke so severe that people thought he was shot in the head!
We had over a half dozen other POTUS’s that were extremely ill, not a biggie.
A woman runs for POTUS, everyone wets their pants.
Well, on the right, anyway.
Get some depends if it’s that bad. I would.

Our judges would be very shocked to hear healthy people don’t fall on their head. They’ve been dealing with cases of that kind for many years. Maybe some damage awards need to be refunded.

Well, my wife has been falling a lot more of late. Worse, she has several healed vertebral fractures and two new ones. Plus various other bones showing healed small fractures.
While I was reviewing the diagnostic imagery, I commented to my wife, “Wow! I’m amazed that they didn’t think that I was beating you!”. Apparently, they did ask while I was out for lunch and coffee.
Good for them!
No, just advanced osteoarthritis.

Although, back when we only had a full sized bed, it could almost seem that way when rolling over.*

*That’s OK, the few times that she got my forearm crashing down on her were paid back with interest after her carpal tunnel surgery and she had a cast. I was sporting two black eyes, to some mutual embarrassment and laughter.
I’m still quite the active sleeper, flopping this way and that, but as we have a king sized bed, the only thing that happens is my knocking the fitted sheet off of my corner of the bed, to be replaced when I arise.
Occasionally, to find my head encased in said corner, when the elastic snaps it over me…

Seriously, they’re going on and on about three falls in what, eleven years? I’ve sprained my ankle and gone down more frequently than that (and have done since age 10), and that’s only a subset of the falling I do.

I’ve also seen plenty of perfectly healthy folks (teenagers, even!) pass out on stage just from locking their knees during choral concerts. It doesn’t take much.

Oddly, I’m one infamous for locking knees and never passing out. Likely, a side effect of hypermobility.

Meanwhile, both of our daughters have laxity in joints, clinically notable laxity.
I have a suspicion, however, I’m not a physician.
I’ve nearly always deferred to a physician, when I didn’t, said physician’s management or supervisor overruled him or her.
That said, such an event was rare, only statistically significant.

Or in short, I don’t challenge someone that’s an SME until I’m damned sure that they’re wrong. Then, all bets are off.
I’ve not lost that bet yet. But, I also recognize my educational and experiential level delta.

I was watching news with a live feed of HRC the other day when she couldn’t start her talk due to having a coughing fit. It was so painful, thinking about what the unfit-to-serve folks would make of it, I turned it off.

If you wanted a long-distance armchair diagnosis of that coughing, I wouldn’t go with Parkinson’s but GERD, (since that’s what gave ME similar coughing fits and laryngitis tied to trying to speak in public) and have Hilary checked for Barrett’s.

@sadmar, full empathy. I have GERD in spades. I forgot, for only two days, my proton pump inhibitor. I currently feel like I thankfully drank battery acid.
For those not in the know, we’re talking the lower esophagus being burned by rebound and propensity driven excesses of stomach acids, sloshing up the esophagus.
Having forgotten on day three, but remembering in the “morning”, I took my proton pump inhibitor, went to work and literally drank three gallons of water to dilute the excess until I could heal.
Many, many, many bathroom visits later, I returned home, ate a few acid neutralizer tablets.
At this point, I’m nearly feeling somewhat, erm, normal (well, for me).
That means, in this condition, which I have well documented, it’s a one in three chance that I’ll projectile vomit, with minimal warning.
Said vomiting usually takes between ten and thirty seconds to occur with proton pump inhibitors and is largely mucus driven.

So… It’s complicated.
My wife fares more poorly. She has reflux at night, coughs up a mouthful and erodes her face – literally.

Yep. I once fainted in the kitchen of the house I was renting with four other students when I was 21. Vasovagal, for no apparent reason other than perhaps burning the candle at both ends in the run up to exams.

If you wanted a long-distance armchair diagnosis of that coughing, I wouldn’t go with Parkinson’s but GERD, (since that’s what gave ME similar coughing fits and laryngitis tied to trying to speak in public) and have Hilary checked for Barrett’s.

GERD and undiagnosed asthma are two common causes of chronic coughs.

Tim Cook just coughed during the Apple Event! He must have Parksinsons. Sell your Apple Stock!

Yeah, and that Huma b****, when she wrote “She’s often confused.” They jumped all over that, too. And they never asked how in the hell Huma would know this, as if she has a lot of access to Hillary. What a joke.

Forget Hillary, a vote for her is a vote for George Soros. A man far more evil than Trump!!!

Hey, dimbulb, Parkinson’s isn’t contagious. Go troll Reddit,with your fellow jerkface, MRA, gun-fetishist joint smoking friends.

The longer this election goes on, the more I wish the baby-boomers would just go away. It’s funny, once upon a time they dreamed of making the world better, but all they did was make it massively worse. If the 1950s had been cut straight out of history, or if we’d had to spend it rebuilding like Europe did, we’d be a sight better off now.

@PGP, while we’re trailing edge baby boomers, you’ll greatly miss us when we’re gone. 🙂
That said, our mutual predecessors did massively foul up.
Assigning blame while the fire is ongoing isn’t how one addresses the fire. It’s how one lets everything burn down, while investigating.
Not the most optimal solution.

Still, just a suggestion. 🙂

Hogwash. If your mother was having coughing fits like Hillary you wouldn’t take her to the dr…..right? “Sorry to hear about your coughing fits mom…how’s your lawn?”

Politics

Sonny, let me explain a few things, in as gentlemanly a fashion as I can.
First, my mother had chronic bronchitis and coughed a lot. Especially in spring, during allergy season.
And in late fall, when mold went up and the house was closed up
She also didn’t have to yak on like a politician. At all, thankfully.

As for “how’s your lawn”, I’d love to read on how you expound on that mythical lawn.

If your a Trump supporter the video makes sense.

If your a Clinton supporter not so much.

But health looks like it could be an issue , there has been peculiar moments for Hillary if your honest and can get by your bias.

Erm, when you can speak in a literate sense, come back.
There’s your and you’re.
Mixing the two befuddles any point that you’re trying to make, beyond the top of your already empty head.

For others reading, this is a precautionary note. Defective usage of a condom can and will create such deficient creatures, for the best part of that individual stays inside of the rubber.

I’m not a doctor. And I wouldn’t attempt to diagnose her health. But it does make me really uneasy when I watch her head bob around, see her react to sudden stimulation and watch her cough without stopping for four plus minutes. And it isn’t like the coughing has been constrained to one episode. Neither have her pretty bad falls. A busted elbow, a bad concussion, etc. Hell, she even had an aide stabilize her during a recent rally. We can’t expect her to be in perfect health. She’s 68. We can expect her to disclose her health records though. Ditto for him as he is even older. It’s a serious job afterall.

You should have stopped at, “I’m not a doctor. And I wouldn’t attempt to diagnose her health.”

One notes, as I pointed out, that the head bobbing was cherry picked from many thousands of hours with no head bobbing. Ditto the coughing.

On second thought, you should have stopped at, “I’m not a doctor.”

No, John, we realize that people slip on slick steps.

Including US presidents. There was a famous incident in the 1970s when then-President Gerald Ford, alighting from Air Force One, slipped and fell to the bottom of the air stairs. That incident helped seal his reputation as a klutz. But nobody to my knowledge claimed that Ford had Parkinson’s, either then or in the three decades between that incident and his death.

For that matter, I had a slip and fall earlier this year that, to an onlooker, would have seemed completely out of the blue. Do I have Parkinson’s or some other neurological disorder that caused the fall? No, it turned out that the light coating of snow on the sidewalk concealed a patch of ice. No need to assume that anything was physically or neurologically wrong with me prior to the incident (I did sustain a hand injury in the fall).

So no, falling is not evidence of Parkinson’s. Even if Parkinson’s could cause someone to fall, that isn’t the way to bet.

[email protected]: Please adjust your snark meter.

@Eric Lund, currently and admittedly, recently, I’ve been forced to walk with a cane.
Well, it’s that or randomly be dumped flat on my face, when one leg randomly collapses.
So, having dad’s old cane around, I use it. It retains a tip that I purchased for him. Flip the little metal bit around, there’s a half centimeter steel tip to dig into ice.
Which was its purpose in life, grab into ice, not slip and drop dad to the ground.
That said, I still have plenty of wiggle room to fall. The cat knocked said cane out from under me when I got home for work once. *Just* as I was setting it down and shifting weight to rest upon it.
While, I didn’t have enough time to prepare a martial arts guided landing, I did just go solidly down onto both knees and one elbow.

Obviously, that’s parkinsonism, to idiots. For anyone with a mind, a history of disc disease suggests that bilateral collapse after injury might be potentially disc driven symptoms.
Well, for anyone, save an insurance company…

First, here’s a link worth looking at:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2016/aug/04/dont-diagnose-donald-trump-its-not-helpful
Now the most pointed example of a spouse taking over was Edith Galt Wilson after her husband’s stroke. She allowed very few people to see him but claimed to be his intermediary. It is widely supposed that she was actually running the country herself. That couldn’t happen today.
I find Trump’s pretended concern for Clinton’s health hypocritical, coming as it does from someone who looks like a jack o’lantern left out on the porch all winter.
Falls? When I hyperextend my neck I occlude one or both vertebrobasilar arteries, and if there’s nothing in front of me to grab onto, I lose all motor control and I quite literally fall on my face – dirt on my nose and glasses, a sharply pointed branch scraping my face just millimeters from my eye, and so forth.
Now, John Jacobs, I don’t know where you see a leftward bias in the media. I see false equivalency. Trump tells a huge lie about Mexicans = Clinton’s email. Trump insults a war hero = Clinton’s email. Trump goes racist on a judge = Clinton’s email. Trump & his entourage repeatedly retweet Nazis and white supremacists = Clinton’s email. Trump pays off state officials to steer them away form investigating Trump University = Clinton’s email. And on and on it goes. Meanwhile, no matter how despicable, deceitful, or corrupt Trump gets, no matter how he lies about his own recorded statements, the bulk of the media pass on the ludicrous defenses made by and for him as if it were holy writ instead of Pravda-like falsehood.
I hoped electoral politics could be kept out of Orac’s blog, but it’s here, leading me to say that Donald Trump is the worst choice for President since Richard Nixon or Strom Thurmond and for more reasons than there’s room to tell here.

I just got over 2 weeks of horrible coughing due, it turns out, to bronchitis. Never had that before (and I being a dumb male type person) I naturally ignored it as long as I could. Eventually after being unable to breath at times the coughing was so bad, I went to the doctor’s office. A z-pack and some codeine cough syrup and fixed it all up.

While codeine is nice, I’m a bigger fan of promethazine. It’s excellent at cough suppressing action, diarrhea, even antihistamine activity and more. It’s a Swiss Army Knife of drugs, one can even use it as an adjunct for anesthesia. Great drug in the right hands, in the wrong hands, it’s like any other powerful drug, potentially dangerous.
But, it was one of the elective drugs that I carried in my downrange treatment kit.

@PgP #46
“Hey, dimbulb, Parkinson’s isn’t contagious.”

How do you know?

“The (human) brain diseases caused by prions include Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Huntington’s, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig’s disease), and other disorders known as frontotemporal dementias,” said Nobel Laureate Stanley Prusiner, who earned a Nobel Prize in Physiology in 1997 for discovering deadly prions.

http://alzheimerdisease.tv/parkinsons-transmissible-disease/

Let’s just say that, if our plane crashed in the Alps, I’d feel a little extra trepidatious about eating her.

Erm, Gil, there’s precisely zero evidence, in real world evidence, that parkinsonism is prion related.
Period.
A one-off, after a major tragedy? Seriously?
Dude, I’ve just lost a lot of respect for you.
Which is actually saying a lot.
Car talk was cool, you’re willing to learn, but you really need to re-address your boundaries for accepting input.
We’ve got a pretty good handle on prion disease, it’s transmissible via specific methods. Parkinsonism, just not happening. The latter is either prior brain damage that decompensates with age related loss or autoimmune, doing the same.
Seriously, we’re talking brains, meat! Not rocket science!*

*Remember the hyperbole wheelbarrow? This is a double wide, triple load model, with sarcasm by the supertanker.
Albeit, in this instance, rightfully delivered.
Or, perhaps, he’s right. Boxing gloves magically deliver a prion, injected, by magic, into the opponent.
Assuming, of course, that magic suddenly came to exist.

The cause of neuronal death in Parkinson’s disease is still unknown, but a new study proposes that neurons may be mistaken for foreign invaders and killed by the person’s own immune system …

The results raise the possibility that Parkinson’s is partly an autoimmune disease, Dr. Sulzer says, but more research is needed to confirm the idea.

“Right now, we’ve showed that certain neurons display antigens and that T cells can recognize these antigens and kill neurons,” Dr. Sulzer says, “but we still need to determine whether this is actually happening in people.

http://newsroom.cumc.columbia.edu/blog/2014/04/17/parkinsons-autoimmune-disease/

def. one-off: done or happening only once.

^^ What do you mean by that?

Wzrd1: while we’re trailing edge baby boomers, you’ll greatly miss us when we’re gone.
I will miss a number of members from the boomer generation, but not the generation itself. (the dimbulb is a prime example of his generation, for example.)
Wzrd1: Assigning blame while the fire is ongoing isn’t how one addresses the fire. It’s how one lets everything burn down, while investigating.

At this point, letting it all burn down seems like the only option. As I’ve said before, a lot of things need a rethink, including the idea of fifty states, and possibly closing all national parks to visitors.

Dimmy: Because we’ve done a metric fuck-ton of research on prions since they were discovered and guess where they aren’t? They’re not in Alzheimers’ patients, or ALS patients or Parkinson’s patients. Alzheimer’s patients have *proteins* unravelling in the brain, but proteins aren’t the same as prions.

Go get a new brain, yours is clearly not working. And people say pot is completely harmless.Maybe the Reagans were actually right about something for once.

#61

<blockquoteThe cause of neuronal death in Parkinson’s disease is still unknown, but a new study proposes that neurons may be mistaken for foreign invaders and killed by the person’s own immune system …

In other words, NOT a communicable disease. NOT a disease caused by prions.

It is, of course, OK to post about something Theodore Beale has said — it may even be an obligation if that thing has actually gained credibility somewhere. But it is usually OK to ignore him completely. Teddy Beale is in that category of stupid, evil people whose stupidity tends to make a lot of the evil ineffective. He only has a soapbox because his father, tax protester and arch-wingnut Robert Beale, is on the board of WND. As noted elsewhere, he is so crazy and vicious he even gets edited at that odious fishwrapper. He should be ignored.

@Wzrd1
“Erm, Gil, there’s precisely zero evidence, in real world evidence, that parkinsonism is prion related.”
Have you ever heard of synuclein?

ORAC – It is no more unreasonable for me to be concerned by her many instances of odd behaviors, falls, coughing, etc. than it is for someone to proclaim there is nothing wrong. Both candidates should submit to physical exams by a team of physicians and allow the results to be made public. The job is too important. Acting smug about it won’t change that fact. The job is too important for the public not to understand the health of two candidates who are way past the age for AARP membership.

Except that there is no evidence that Clinton has has “many” instances of odd behaviors, falls, and coughing. It’s clearly all cherry picked by her political opponents. Diagnosing Clinton from a distance is just as dumb as diagnosing Donald Trump with psychiatric disorders from a distance.

Consider this. If it were Donald Trump showing identical behaviors to Hillary Clinton, would you think he was sick and be demanding he release his medical records? I highly doubt it.

Let’s just say that, if our plane crashed in the Alps, I’d feel a little extra trepidatious about eating her.

Me too. We all know that as a mammal ages, protein crosslinking makes the muscles tougher.

Only wussies are afraid of prions.

Can someone explain what the medical difference is between past and way past?
I guess I missed that in my coursework on documentation, but can start notating it in my patient charting.

Yeah but what if Dr. Noel is right, then what? I certainly don’t have any “medical credit ability” except having been a nurse for 47 years and having a family member with Parkinson’s disease. I think I deserve the truth but then again hiding the truth seems to be her biggest illness.

Why did Mrs. Clinton have some of her staff research Parkinson’s Disease drugs which has been confirmed. Her symptoms are obvious. She can’t climb a set of stairs without exerting much effort and help. She has uncontrollable head movements and the deer in headlights look that she can’t control. Parkinson’s or some other neurological disorder, the woman is not well.
As for the comment that “we survived” President Reagan’s dementia. First, it is debatable whether Reagan was suffering from the disease while still in office. What is not debatable is that Reagan’s policies resulted in the largest peacetime economic boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs according to the Joint Economic Committee in 2000.

“…that the head bobbing was cherry picked from many thousands of hours with no head bobbing….”
No it wasn’t. Neither were the uncontrollable hand movements, falls and incessant spit-choking.

Yes they were. And there aren’t any uncontrollable hand movements, just a misinterpretation by a biased anesthesiologist. I have a board certified neurologist telling me this after having seen the video and telling me he saw nothing obviously abnormal and certainly no obvious movements characteristic of Parkinson’s.

I declare Trump unfit because his obvious “disability” of never being able to tell the truth…..

@Jim

Well, we do have that pesky HIPAA law that would prevent anything like you propose, barring the candidates themselves disclosing the information. That said, the results of any physical examination wouldn’t be anyone’s business. The most that anyone could legitimately argue is for a fit/unfit results to be disclosed, but no details.

Of course, “no details” would not satisfy people opposed to the candidate, as they would simply claim that the doctors had been paid off (which is already being done).

And, quite frankly, while people might want to know if the person they elect is physically or mentally fit to govern, there is no legal requirement for such a test to be made.

That incident helped seal his reputation as a klutz.

Chevy Chase didn’t hurt, either.

jre @65: Now that Vox Day has also totally failed in his attempt to “destroy” the Hugo awards (Science Fiction awards) it really is time for the internet to turn its collective back on his blathering.
What a loser.

Look, it’s obviously mild cognitive impairment subsequent to chronic Lyme disease. High-dose antibiotics administered by a Lyme-literate doctor would clear it up in a few months to a year.

Regarding the Parkinson’s/Prion debate – this is an actual hypothesis you can find in the literature, so plz don’t bash on someone for mentioning it. I will say that’s it’s very premature to present it as a fact, but that’s really a problem with Gilbert’s source rather than with Gilbert.

Parkinson’s has been linked to mutations in synuclein. The synuclein protein seems like it may form prions in the related disease multiple system atrophy (MSA), but no evidence for such prions has yet been found for Parkinsons (http://www.pnas.org/content/112/38/E5308).

Since I know there are a bunch of nerds here, does this “Hillary has Parkinson’s” remind anyone of the Tenth Doctor and his “Don’t you think she looks tired?” comment about the prime minister, which ended up with her being ousted from office?

(For non-Doctor Who nerds, eh, it would take forever to explain, but the episode is The Christmas Invasion.)

Ok so the Dr is not a Hillary supporter, but the author points out she’s been political blogging going 10 yrs back.

Also interesting- her “take down” of the Vox day points to 2006 discussion of deporting “12 million” illegal aliens. 10 years later, the “accepted” illegal population is 11 million. ??
PEW Research estimates the illegal population grows by 500k per year.

So who exactly is lying about Amnesty for illegals? Bear Sterns estimated 20 million back in 2008. 20 million? 30 million? Add the population of Texas? Add the population of Canada, or more accurately in terms of voting habits, Venezuela?

The high ground on matters of national importance whether candidates health or who constitutes the voting population always seems to shift, per needs of the moment.

Justatech: Ugh, don’t get me started on the Hugos. I’m ready to get up a petition to shut them down because of the incessent whining of the untalented puppies. If they want to win they need to stop whining and learn to write. Although it does help to keep my reading list trim, as I ax off writer after writer as the catastrophe continues. I’m beginning to be convinced that many science fiction writers want the fandom to be solely comprised of white 14-year-old boys.

Whether Orac is correct or not, his criticism of Dr Ted Noel being incapable of making a diagnosis of Parkinson’s because he’s a “First off, being a “board-certified anesthesiologist” has little or nothing to do with expertise in neurology or Parkinson’s disease. Yet, note how Vox emphasizes that he has 36 years of experience, presumably at anesthesia. I’m sure he’s a perfectly capable anesthesiologist, but he’s no more qualified to diagnose Parkinson’s disease than any other non-neurologist, probably less, given his high degree of specialization.”

Of course Dr Gorski is an oncologist dealing with cancer. His criticism of Dr Noel would also apply to him. He has no business deducing anything about HRC either. See the quote below.

“It’s hard to imagine two diseases more different than Parkinson’s and cancer. Parkinson’s disease, a progressive neurological disease that causes tremors, muscular rigidity, and loss of motor function, happens when neurons that release the neurotransmitter dopamine die in the tiny substantia nigra region of the brain.Mar 9, 2010

Parkinson’s Disease and Cancer: The Unexplored Connection
jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/6/371Journal of the National Cancer Institute”

Orac is an oncologist, yes—and he’s not diagnosing Clinton with anything. For the conclusion that Clinton doesn’t have Parkinson’s, he cited Steve Novella, who is a neurologist.

When someone waves irrelevant credentials around, I tend to conclude that this is because they have neither relevant credentials, nor an argument that would stand on its own without the dubiously claimed authority.

In referring to the anestheseologist, the author mistakenly referred to Ted Noel, the anestheologist as “Vox”, wno is Ted Beal.
An understandable mistake given that Vox quotes Noel

Actually, no. Vox emphasizes that Dr. Noel has 36 years of experience. I pointed that out because Vox normally castigates experts, but when there’s one that he likes he emphasizes what an “expert” he is. 🙂

This reminds me of the Obama birth certificate issue. It could have been solved immediately but he spent 2 million dollars fighting the release of his birth certificate in court. The fight only seemed to confirm suspicions.

Same here. She could release hospital records and the suspicions would be allayed immediately. She can do more.

The number of former Senators that run for POTUS and were required to show their birth certificate = 1.
For every other candidate in US history, an attestation of a state governor and surgeon general was more than sufficient.
Now, for yet another first, the GOP now wants HIPAA protected documents.

Said to another republican, so long ago, but it bears saying today, “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?”

It could have been solved immediately but [Obama] spent 2 million dollars fighting the release of his birth certificate in court.

Horse Apples.
Horse. Freaking. Apples.
Point me to proof that Obama fought the release of his birth certificate. in fact, if I remember correctly, the State of Hawaii released it to shut the birthers up.

I recall some resistance to releasing the birth certificate, as he’d then be the only candidate in US history to have had to release a document that was already sworn to by a republican governor and state surgeon general.
So, it got to the point where some brain trusts were claiming that Hawaii wasn’t really a state (seriously!) and others, that two republican leaders in Hawaii were conspiring to elect a democrat that was an illegal alien or something.

It was embarrassing, internationally and when I thought things couldn’t make the world wonder as to our nation’s collective sanity, along bumbles Trump.

Hawaii released Obama’s long-form birth certificate a long time ago…but the birthers continued their crusade, regardless.

I wonder what will be next?
Proof the candidate is baptised? Or proof the candidate attends the church?
Or perhaps proof the candidate is legally married?
Our premier is single and why should I care?

This Science Blog article is so incredibly politically biased as to destroy any credibility it ever had based on scientific rigor. It’s authors are clearly Hillary supporters, making several statements that are patently false — such as claiming the suggestion that Hillary has Parkinson’s Disease is based on “basically nothing” — except for the dozen or so incidents befalling Hillary that are entirely consistent with Parkinson’s Disease. If you are going to call yourselves the “Science Blog” then you need to employ a little integrity and rigor when you diverge into the political arena.

Ah, Hillary related information needs “science”, whereas anything else for you requires nothing.
Consider the worse profanity yours to keep, my compliments, my version is worse.
Go away, son, you bother me.

Seriously, that one annoyed me less than an ankle biter.

So. You are annoyed by a demand for political rigor to be taken as seriously as seriously as scientific rigor is taken by real scientists. If you are a leftist, that’s typical or Hillary would be locked in a closet somewhere. If you are a realist, OTOH, you would agree the article open this thread is worthless garbage. And yes, I do require equal rigor when it comes to Trump. Applying equal rigor to both of these flawed candidates reveals Hillary to be the end of everything America stands for, beginning with liberty under the Rule of Law Obama has already trashed. And it reveals Trump to the only possibility, however weak it may seem to you, to turn our country around and restore it to its true promise. Not guaranteed, mind you, but the destruction under the Bitch of Benghazi is guaranteed and she has said so, promised so, and is using it as a campaign promise.

Five will get you ten that after all is said and done, Hillary has great expectorations of being featured in Ricola commercials.

Bleh, Gil. My “Expectorations” are greater, I’m a pack a day smoker.
Hell, when ozone is high, I projectile vomit!
And?
Am I incompetent?
I also fall a lot, last week, the cat knocked my cane out from under me and down I went.
Wanna play, I have a pocket full of quarters. Let’s play.
I have no love of Hillary, but I do love reality.

If you are going to call yourselves the “Science Blog” then you need to employ a little integrity and rigor when you diverge into the political arena.

The author has stipulated that diagnosing someone via videos, especially those with no training in the requisite areas is as ridiculous for Trump as it is for Clinton. The author writes for a collective called “Science Blogs”, he had nothing to do with that name. What are you whingeing about again? I’d be more concerned with your reading comprehension than some perceived liberal bias.

Wonderful forgery, save that the use of language lacked, badly.
Might as well been in Russian.

Things just keep getting hilariouser and hilariouser.

– re the small handed ( orange) one
a television reporter visited NY’s Mme Tussaud’s which displays a casting of the aforesaid one’s hands.
They measure 7 1/4 inches in length – smaller than most men’s, similar to most women’s ( according to the broadcast).
My hands are a tiny, tiny bit larger than the Donald’s.
I am 5’6″ tall and have NO penis.
– What is Aleppo, anyway?
– I noticed 2 political commenters coughing like mad the other day in unison- she must be wildly infectious!
– prn.fm’s noontime frolic has devolved into a political commentary contra Clinton
We should be happy, he’s not instructing followers in the finer points of BS-laden woo.

As a long time observer and commenter upon internet lunacy involving health and ( since 2008) politics –
I must say-
Crap has gone mainstream and come home to roost.

@Denice Walter, your final point is purely and finally valid.
Former points, I’ll not discuss my variable penile length, depending upon mood, as it’s not germane beyond excitement. 😉
Hand length, erm, I dunno.
But, point strength, dumb donald loses. Always. Sans a clue.

Strange you should say that. Every “dumb thing” Trump has said that the Marxist Mafia left outrages about has turned out to be true upon a little research. OTOH, everything the Marxist Mafia subaltern exhibiting the symptoms of Parkinson’s Disease has said has been known to be a lie from the moment she said it. It is so consistently so that you can generally figure if her face flap is flapping, she’s lying. She lies about her own actions; she lies about history, she lies about her opponent; she lies about her Clinton Foundation slush fund, and she lies about her lies.

Mr Cline speaks of “little research”, therein lies the problem, with little research, he arrives at defective ideas.
Case in point, the “Benghazi bitch”, despite a half dozen committees that were hostile to her finding precisely nothing against her performance of her duties when the tragedy in Benghazi occurred. Or for that matter, what the status of forces agreement permitted in Libya. Or general reality.
Just foaming at the mouth hyperbole.

At least when I use hyperbole, it’s clear that I’m using it in a humorous context, not a closely held, albeit erroneous belief.
For, a little research can be as bad as no research at all if one does not uncover the facts of a matter of interest.

Do you think for one New York Second V. I. Lenin’s depredations in the Ukraine in 1924, or Josef Stalin’s murderous holocaust in that country, would have been exposed by an investigation into his crimes by his own equivalent to our “Department of Justice”? (See http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm for more information.) If not, why on God’s green Earth would you expect the beneficiary and titular head of the biggest criminal regime on the planet to be challenged by our Department of Justice for giving aid and comfort to our enemies in Libya? Your comment reveals a total ignorance of just how complete the Marxist Mafia takeover of our federal government is. They don’t play nice, Wrzd1. Approximately 90 people with evidence against the Clintons have already been murdered, four or five in the last couple of months. Eric Holder got out hoping he would be next. Rahm Immanuel got out, hoping he wouldn’t be next. Jeff Comey refused to call for an indictment against Hillary hoping he wouldn’t be next, and knowing that Loretta Lynch wouldn’t have allowed it in any event. You have no idea how totally corrupt our rogue occupation government has become, Wzrd1.

Approximately 90 people with evidence against the Clintons have already been murdered, four or five in the last couple of months. Eric Holder got out hoping he would be next. Rahm Immanuel got out, hoping he wouldn’t be next. Jeff Comey refused to call for an indictment against Hillary hoping he wouldn’t be next, and knowing that Loretta Lynch wouldn’t have allowed it in any event.

All of those dead, powerful people, yet you know “the truth” and are somehow magically alive and protected. Is it the space aliens protecting you or the immortal militia or something?

I’m a private citizen presenting facts and political history anyone can verify for themselves. If I became a witness to specific acts of treason admissible in a court of law, I would definitely become a target.

Most likely she has discoordinated swallowing, resulting in pharyngeal cough fits (for layman – saliva got into the wrong pipe). This swallowing disorder is a part of ongoing (and progressing) pseudobulbar syndrome. Some of her other symptoms, as shown on videos, belong to Pseudobulbar Affect (PBA).
My guess is that her medics are not top notch ones, she could be managed better, but I agree this condition is difficult to fix.
So far there are no signs of PD or use of levodopa type medication.

Why, thank you, pseudo-doc!
I’ll forward your pseudodiagnosis to my real physician, who will happily laugh at your non-diagnosis with me.
I’m also infamous for choking on my own spittle, something about cervical discs and all.

What is someone playing for pay again, a common whore, is it?
Save that I’d trust a street prostitute more than you, at least she’d be honest about who and what she does for a living. You’re not.
Now, as my Brit friends would say, “Bugger off!”.

For the record, I loathe Hillary. I loathe paid whores far more. Tovarich.

@ Lawrence:

I have a birth certificate copy ( my mother lost the original) that looks like she printed it up herself on nearly transparent green tissue paper.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: