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Professor Christopher Exley: The latest darling of the antivaccine movement

Last week, I told Christopher Shaw to move over, because there was a new antivaccine scientist in town. This week, Christopher Exley speaks and proves why it’s correct to call him antivaccine.

It’s been a rather busy last couple of weeks, in particular last weekend and the last couple of days. On Monday, I had to take my general surgery board recertification examination (or, as they call it now, the maintenance of certification examination). Yesterday, I spent a full day in the operating room doing difficult cases. Still, despite my exhaustion last night, I couldn’t resist commenting on a video I came across featuring an interview with Christopher Exley.

You remember Christopher Exley, don’t you? I just wrote about him last week. In I deconstructed his utterly awful paper, a paper in which Exley claimed to have found very high levels of aluminum in the brains of autistic people. I was not alone. So did Science Mom, who correctly described Exley as the “new face of the antivax aluminum grift.” (I sarcastically referred to Exley thusly: “Move over Christopher Shaw. There’s a new antivaccine scientist in town.”) An actual scientist who does the sort of fluorescence microscopy that Exley found his methods to be…lacking…as well, as did our feathery friend The Skeptical Raptor. Not surprisingly, the antivaccine movement jumped all over the study, claiming that it showed that the brains of children with autism are “loaded with aluminum.”

No. They. Are. Not. At least, if they are, Exley’s paper doesn’t demonstrate it.

Not that it stops him from “speculating.” In the very article I cited above by Christina England, New Research Proves Brains of Children with Autism are Loaded with Aluminum, there is a video of Exley himself talking about his paper:

I was rather puzzled at the source, I must admit, which is a French group Pour des vaccins sans aluminium (For vaccines without aluminum), although Exley speaks English. A quick perusal of the website reveals the usual litany of antivaccine tropes with regard to aluminum in vaccines, basically your standard issue antivaccine fear mongering about aluminum that have been debunked time and time again. Any scientist who is truly not antivaccine would not have anything to do with a group like this, but there’s Exley, appearing in a video by this group. Maybe he thought that because it wasn’t a group from an English-speaking country no one would notice.

Exley starts by reiterating the purported findings in his study. I say “purported” because, as the Blood-Brain Barrier Scientist, Science Mom, Skeptical Raptor, and, of course, yours truly have already discussed, his paper’s claimed findings and its actual findings are related primarily by coincidence. (Read those links for the details, if you’re interested.) After confidently declaring that the levels of aluminum in the brains of autistic people were “extraordinarily high” and “very high,” Exley claims that his research implicates aluminum as an etiological role in autism. Claiming that, before his current research, he had heard of claims that aluminum—or aluminum in vaccines—causes autism but had dismissed the science as not adequately strong to support a link, he then proclaims:

I have to change my mind on both of these. I have to change my mind that aluminium has a role in autism and believe it now does…Now I’ve often said when asked “Should we stop using aluminium adjuvants in vaccines?” I’ve sort of said no because I didn’t think that there was a safe alternative. (I’m not saying “safer alternative,” I’m saying “safe alternative.”) I didn’t believe that aluminium could be responsible for some of the effects we see following vaccination. But now, because I have seen the same cells from the ones seen at the injection site carrying a cargo of aluminum into the brain tissue of individuals who have died of autism, I would now say we have to think very carefully about who receives a vaccine which includes an aluminum adjuvant.
We have to think carefully, is this vaccine a life saving vaccine or not? If it isn’t, don’t have it with an aluminum adjuvant.

Yep, Christopher Exley is antivaccine. No doubt about it. He’s internalized the lingo and uses it flawlessly. He portrays himself as someone who thought vaccines were safe until he saw his new data. (It’s very typical of antivaxers to proclaim themselves as former—or even still—pro-vaxers—until they had a revelation based on either experience or evidence.) Even more typical is to describe a rabidly antivaccine organization like the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), which funded his research, and the Dwoskin family, which funds the CMSRI thusly:

No government funded this research. This research came because of philanthropy. It came because individuals who wanted to know answers and were prepared to provide the money. We pay our government, and our government should really be using our money to fund this type of research.

As I’ve documented before, Claire and Al Dwoskin, who founded the CMSRI, are fanatically antivaccine, and they use their foundation to fund causes related to their belief that vaccines cause autism. The CMSRI funds antivaccine research, and you can bet that the Dwoskins wouldn’t have funded Exley’s work if they didn’t think it would be used to implicate vaccines as a cause of autism and all the diseases and conditions that antivaxers blame vaccines for. England herself, I note, not only demonizes vaccines, but is known for having promoted one of the vilest of antivaccine lies, the myth that shaken baby syndrome is a “misdiagnosis” for vaccine injury.

She interviewed Exley:

England: It has been thought for many years that thimerosal was responsible for causing autism; does your study put doubt on this as a theory?

Exley: No, since we have not researched mercury.

England: In your opinion, could autism be a childhood form of Alzheimer’s disease?

Exley: Actually, this thought has crossed my mind!

England: It appears that one way or another, aluminum could be responsible for neurological disorders to occur; why do you think that they manifest in so many different ways?

Exley: The result of aluminum toxicity is simply down to where and how it accumulates in human tissue. It is so biologically-reactive that it can disrupt many, many biochemical pathways. However, for this disruption to manifest as disease the number and severity of the disruptions must increase above a tolerable threshold and to achieve this threshold you need time (e.g. in AD) or unusual circumstances (as may be the case in autism).

Autism is childhood form of Alzheimer’s disease? Spare me. That Exley doesn’t immediately laugh at that idea and point out the enormous difference between the pathophysiology of autism and the pathophysiology of Alzheimer’s disease tells you all you need to know about him. He’s utterly clueless about neurological disorders. As for his claims about aluminium (or aluminum, as we Yanks call it), he’s even more clueless.

No doubt Christopher Exley would object to my characterization of him as “antivaccine.” How else can he be described, though? He parrots antivaccine talking points. He hangs out with antivaccine groups like Pour des vaccins sans aluminium and CMSRI. He gives interviews to utter antivaccine loons like Christina England. If he’s not antivaccine, at best he’s a useful idiot for the antivaccine movement and deluding himself that he’s doing research that advances the science of autism. Antivaccine or deluded dupe of the antivaccine movement, it doesn’t much matter to me. The end result is the same. He’s just the latest in an unfortunate line of scientists who have either gone antivax or prostituted themselves to the antivaccine movement to produce crappy science used to support the discredited notion that vaccines cause autism and are harmful. Let’s just put it this way. If you’ve been appearing on Robert Scott Bell’s show and speaking at the autism quackfest known as Autism One, chances are that your science is pseudoscience.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

200 replies on “Professor Christopher Exley: The latest darling of the antivaccine movement”

Remember this is not about science it’s about sales. For the intended audience it’s a good pitch.

So aluminum is implicated in both Alzheimer’s and ASD – can we not just say let’s do some more research? many of these comments seem desperate to minimise these findings- one can speculate as to why…. imagine firstly, that there is a very real causal connection between vaccines and ASD and secondly, that this is well known to the manufacturers, money- men and those high enough in the food-chain. The implications of these two possibilities are massive: proof of a worldwide vaccine scam involving nonstop deception; from the media and government institutions, successful social engineering which ensures the sheeple trust their government unquestionably. For the more indoctrinated, this knowledge would lead to unimaginable cognitive dissonance and so they attack any reasonable counter argument- desparate, sad 😔

“imagine firstly, that there is a very real causal connection between vaccines and ASD and secondly, that this is well known to the manufacturers, money- men and those high enough in the food-chain.”

Your evidence for this is…? Just answer with PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the present American schedule causes more harm than the diseases. Make sure it is not funded by anything Dwoskin related.

Since Exley participated in the anti vaccine movie Injecting Aluminum, which was likely a while in the making, pretending he had just discovered the pretended evils of aluminum adjuvants rings a bit hollow.

Indeed. Exley has been on the anti-aluminum bandwagon for years (over a decade) having been in on the Dwoskin’s Jamaica Anti-Vaxx Junket and writing about the evils of aluminium since the mid-90s.

Indeed. Exley has been on the anti-aluminum bandwagon for years (over a decade)

The Keele Meetings on Aluminium have been happening for 20-odd years now.

Are you really that obtuse Dorit? Exley has been studying aluminum toxicity for awhile, he’s kinda one of the world’s most renowned experts on it. He has been very concerned about aluminum for some time, and for very good reason. There is a lot of recent research by his and other teams which should concern all of us. But understand that this is the first study which has actually tried to quantify the amount of aluminum in brain samples from autistic individuals, and the results are quite alarming (even if the three sets of samples with outlier values are completely removed from the analyses).

Exley has been studying aluminum toxicity for awhile, he’s kinda one of the world’s most renowned experts on it.

That world-renowned expertise must be why he is mainly cited now by a tight circle of like-minded, self-citing, CMRSI-funded Aluminati — Gherardi, Shoenfield, Shaw. As I may have said before, the level of intellectual inbreeding within their circle is such that their brains are about to sprout six fingers and start playing banjo.

Autism a childhood form of Alzheimer’s?

Holy wilful ignorance, Batman! Let’s just spout some science-y sounding bollocks name-checking another disorder folk have heard of and no-one really understands the cause of and hope we can get away with it…

It’s just as well Exley doesn’t work in any form of yer real, actual healthcare over here: he wouldn’t last 5 minutes…

I would add that someone with a history of serious publications should know enough not to put out such sub-par work, even if he didn’t do the measurements himself, he should be aware of the issues, and yet he not only published it but spoke about in the press in a way that overstates the validity and meaning of the article – not just to this anti-vaccine interviewer, but also in the Daily Mail. It’s troubling.

Roger Kulp, nice one. The concept of vaccination is to me akin to black magic For every supposed advance in it they always need to put extras in to improve efficiency. Being given a freehand in development of vaccines by Reagan was a crime against humanity, wasn’t it?

Murmur, if the medications did not work you for UC, what would you do? I read about Professor Exley’s research on Aluminium, using a silicon rich mineral water to test for human exposure to this harmful metal, so I tried 1 litre/day and to my delight I stopped it. It’s quick enough not instant, my colon needed to heal. Then I added silica capsules as well. I haven’t had any flares, Cor D, where I come from they say you need to eat a peck of dirt before you die, and that’s mostly silica. Aluminium has only been inflicted on us for around 100 years, in evolutionary terms that was a millisecond ago.

Aluminum was “inflicted” on us over 4 billion years ago when it became the third most common element in the Earth’s crust. That “peck of dirt” is scarcely all silica; a lot of it is clay: various hydrated silicates of–you guessed it–aluminum (Shock! Gasp!)

That doesn’t even count all the aluminum in the dust you breathe in with every lungful of air or the clay minerals that go (as the antivaxers love to say) “straight into your bloodstream” every time you skin your knee. (Of course, vaccines don’t “go straight into your bloodstream”.)

Aluminum? You’re soaking in it!

Given that no-one has a credible theory as to the cause of Autism, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and a host of other diseases we’d all be sensible to drop any medical political platforms and stick to objectivity. I for one, encourage Exley to persue this line of enquiry and a good scientist would try to prove his own theory wrong. We cannot expect a drug company to find a cure for a disease that they make a fortune out of selling treatments for so we need more Exleys in the world.

Given that no-one has a credible theory as to the cause of Autism, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and a host of other diseases we’d all be sensible to drop any medical political platforms and stick to objectivity.

You are very wrong. Genetics has been credibly implicated in Autism, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. In addition, vaccination has been looked at as a possible cause of autism and excluded. Finally, Exley is far from objective.

I for one, encourage Exley to persue this line of enquiry and a good scientist would try to prove his own theory wrong.

And that right there is the problem. Exley will not try to prove his hypothesis wrong. In fact, if you read through the article, you would have found that Exley’s “science” was lacking somewhat.

I used the professor’s research about Aluminum to successfully stop my Ulcerative Colitis, and using the same methods drank 1 litre/day silicon rich mineral water, the same type he used to test for Aluminum sealts exposure, found it caused bowel movements, then water came through my intestines untouched, so I’ve got to continue this water, the Aluminum in regular municipal water starts my Colitis again, so after 13 years of hell with this condition, any relief of this man made condition is better than the so-called medications that do not work on me.

We cannot expect a drug company to find a cure for a disease that they make a fortune out of selling treatments for

I guess that’s why pan-DDAs for hepatitis C don’t exist.

I used the professor’s research about Aluminum to successfully stop my Ulcerative Colitis, and using the same methods drank 1 litre/day silicon rich mineral water, the same type he used to test for Aluminum sealts exposure, found it caused bowel movements, then water came through my intestines untouched, so I’ve got to continue this water

You could probably achieve the same effect less expensively with GoLytely, or just buy your own silicic acid in bulk.

Thanks to quack pediatrician Bob Sears and his pseudoscientific “vaccine books”, I’ve had parents decline vaccines for their children over this non-existent aluminum fear for over 10 years. And I’ve seen these unvaccinated children later diagnosed with autism. Or a family has a first child with autism so they skip vaccines for the next child and that child still also has autism. Oh, aluminum, where is thy sting? (clearly not here). John Snyder gave a good explanation why aluminum isn’t the boogey man anti-vaxxers like Exley and Sears claim back in a 2009 SBM column (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cashing-in-on-fear-the-danger-of-dr-sears/)

Christopher Hickie writes,

I’ve had parents decline vaccines for their children over this non-existent aluminum fear for over 10 years. And I’ve seen these unvaccinated children later diagnosed with autism.

MJD says,

An amazing piece of anecdotal evidence, Christopher Hickie.

I won’t ask you to explain this further in that I’d hate to have the wolfpack (i.e., Orac’s minions) turn on you. 🙂

Hickie has a history of providing useless anecdotal information like this. Much easier than actually providing counter-points to recent research on aluminum and explaining why we should all not be concerned.

I almost fell for that silly aluminum mumbo jumbo as well. Unfortunately, before I discovered this community, I wasn’t as skeptical as I should have been. I generally knew better than to fall for obvious scams, but Dr. Sears was a legitimate, licensed and certified pediatrician…which makes him more dangerous, imo, than any “holistic quack” or anti-vax mommy group, or actor out there. I knew better than to listen to those, but here I had two legitimate pediatricians (him and my son’s doctor) disagreeing on vaccines. Luckily, I trusted my son’s doctor.

Eliciting a healthy immune response in a healthy baby seems like a sensible approach. I note that last year the Vaccine Compensation outfit in the US dished out over quarter of a million dollars so clearly there are real problems in a minority of cases.
My wife worked as an RN in a Sydney Childrens Hospital for years so when our baby had an adverse vaccine reaction she knew what was going on and our GP calmly told me that we’d kill him with the next shot. I have met babies who were happy and normal until vaccination and are now permanently disabled and needing perpetual special care. Until we can objectively identify what is going on in these cases we would be foolish to denigrate the anti-vaccine community.

The only people I know who died “of” autism are the ones the parents kill their kids with various “treatments”. Even then the autism is an indirect player in the death.

Now people with autism who have died is probably what should have been said, but that isn’t going to spread the fear as much.

Note appendix C of this letter from Del Bigtree. Letters from Shaw, Gherardi and Exley. Both Exley and Gherardi “strongly supporting the contention” that aluminium adjuvants in vaccines “may have a role” in the etiology of ASD. Shaw implies the same, but uses slightly different wording.
Exley and Gherardi’s wording is uncannily similar…

http://icandecide.com/white-papers/ICAN-HHS-Notice.pdf

So Exley and Del Bigtree together?

But he isn’t “anti-vaccine”?

Cheers,
Magdalen

Orac writes,

He’s just the latest in an unfortunate line of scientists who have either gone antivax or prostituted themselves to the antivaccine movement to produce crappy science used to support the discredited notion that vaccines cause autism and are harmful.

MJD says,

It is patently clear that scientists who publicly claim that vaccines may cause autism are less than one in a million (<1 ppm).

In parallel, Orac teaches that “the dose makes the poison” but it appears that each scientist that claims vaccines may cause autism is poisonous (i.e., anti-vaccine).

@ Orac,

In my opinion, Professor Exley’s teachings are well intended and part of the vaccine continuous-improvement process.

“In my opinion, Professor Exley’s teachings are well intended and part of the vaccine continuous-improvement process.”

Except your opinion isn’t worth anything, given your repeated inability to understand basic science and statistics. Coupled with your willingness to lie simply in a vain attempt to be important to gullible people, you are once again coming off as a sad person who is willing to put people at risk to support your own inflated opinion of yourself.

In my opinion, Professor Exley’s teachings are well intended and part of the vaccine continuous-improvement process.

Of course you think that. You think that anybody who even suggests vaccines have any side effects is a righteous dude. You’ve never spoken Ill of any antivaxer. In your world, they are all ‘safety advocates’, and are to be admired.

That’s why you’re a loon.

In my opinion, Professor Exley’s teachings are well intended and part of the vaccine continuous-improvement process.

They are neither. Exaggerating (read lying about) a harm from a component of vaccines does nothing to improve vaccines or vaccination. Exley is not well-intended, he is malicious.

The mechanism-of-action of how aluminum-based adjuvants affect the incidence of autism spectrum disorders remains an open question.

One thing is certain, aluminum-based adjuvants are not covalently linked to the vaccine component and can thereafter disassociate; increasing the probability of said adjuvant interacting with other exogenous/endogenous proteins.

Exley et al. are not malicious.

It is my understanding that a child with atypical immunity may be adversely affected by the non-static binding characteristics of said adjuvant which thereafter may induce both atypical immunity and atypical neurological development.

Julian Frost writes,

Exley is not well-intended, he is malicious.

MJD says,

In a communication from the FDA it is written, “Furthermore, many infants might not receive the entire series of recommended vaccines or the particular combination of vaccines that delivers the maximum amount of aluminum. Therefore, it is likely that some infants will have even lower aluminum levels than calculated in this study and will be at even lower risk for exposure to aluminum through vaccination.”

https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/ScienceResearch/ucm284520.htm

Q. Does the FDA send a mixed signal as it relates to aluminum exposure through vaccination.

I’m not sure you know that he is ‘malicious’. But we really need to be clear that being ‘well-intended’ is irrelevant anyway.

“We all have good intentions, but all with strings attached” Natural is Not in It, 1979.

I am now responding for the sake of the lurkers.

The mechanism-of-action of how aluminum-based adjuvants affect the incidence of autism spectrum disorders remains an open question.

MJD has been notified repeatedly that research confirms that vaccines do not cause autism. Despite this, he continues to argue that vaccines may cause autism, repeating ever more dubious hypotheses, and the above is one of them.

It is my understanding that a child with atypical immunity may be adversely affected by the non-static binding characteristics of said adjuvant which thereafter may induce both atypical immunity and atypical neurological development.

Without a plausible method of causation, MJD has nothing.

MJD (perpetually wrong and dishonest) wrote
“Does the FDA send a mixed signal…”

No. From the report you linked to:

Aluminum is found naturally in large quantities in the environment, often consumed through drinking water or ingesting certain foods, such as infant formula. Using the updated parameters, the authors found that the body burden of aluminum from vaccines and diet throughout an infant’s first year of life is significantly less than the corresponding safe body burden of aluminum, based on the minimal risk levels established by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.

The rest of the work makes it clear that there is no “risk” from aluminum in vaccines — the comment that prompted your ignorant response was merely pointing this out: even with all of the vaccinations children are are exposed to far more aluminum in the world around them, that there is no evidence at all of harm, and that children who do not finish the entire vaccine regimen receive an even smaller amount of aluminum from vaccinations.

Whether the writing was too complicated for you MJD you simply chose to try the dishonest angle I don’t know with certainty, but given your history my statistics background tells me to go with the second of those two choice.

Really? You’re comparing anthropological statements to biochemical ones?

Apples and oranges much?

Well, he’s sure aiming at being darling:
note the fashionably distressed leather, expensive eyeglasses and longish hair. Competition for Andy.

-btw- what area/s are his degrees in?

Yeah, I noticed the studied casualness, as well.

Exley’s a fish guy, originally. His BSc is in aquaculture (U Stirling), earned sometime before ’88, the date of the first publication of his I was able to locate. It comprised a co-authored chapter in Recent Advances in Aquaculture, Vol. 3 titled Acid Rain: Implications For The Farming of Salmonids. From his bio at Keele, it appears he wishes to claim research from his undergrad years (which may be true, although I find no record) and to distance himself from his fishy past, which is, shall we say, de-emphasised:

I am a Biologist (University of Stirling) with a PhD in the ecotoxicology of aluminium (University of Stirling). My research career (1984-present) has focussed upon an intriguing paradox; ‘how come the third most abundant element of the Earth’s crust (aluminium) is non-essential and largely inimcal [sic] to life’. Investigating this mystery has required research in myriad fields from the basic inorganic chemistry of the reaction of aluminium and silicon to the potentially complex biological availability of aluminium in humans. I am also fascinated by the element silicon in relation to living things which, as the second most abundant element of the Earth’s crust, is also almost devoid of biological function. One possible function of silicon is to keep aluminium out of biology (biota) and this forms a large part of the research in our group. We are also interested in biological silicification.

His PhD was also from U Stirling and his ’89 thesis was titled Amelioration of aluminium toxicity in Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L., with particular reference to aluminium/silicon interactions. I lack institutional access to the paywalled version, but did find this kind-of-an-abstract, which shows, at a minimum, that his obsession with Al, silicon and use of graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometry dates back to his earliest work.

what area/s are his degrees in?

I’m not finding a proper CV offhand, but his bio is here.

Chris Exley graduated from Stirling in 1985 with a 2i Honours degree in Biology. It was during the 4th and final year of my[*] degree that I undertook my first research on aluminium. The title of my undergraduate thesis was : “Aluminium toxicity to Atlantic salmon smolts, Salmo salar, and juvenile rainbow trout, Salmo gairdneri, in acid waters”. I remained at Stirling to undertake a PhD in the Institute of Aquaculture, funded by ICI and supervised by Professor JD Birchall OBE FRS (ICI). The title of my PhD is: “Amelioration of aluminium toxicity in Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L., with particular reference to aluminium/silicon interactions”. I followed my PhD with a 3 year ICI postdoctoral fellowship in the Institute of Aquaculture (1989-1992) before moving to Keele University in the summer of 1992 as an ICI Research Fellow (1992-1994) to help JD Birchall establish The Unit of Inorganic Chemistry and Materials Science in the Department of Chemistry. In 1994 I was awarded a Royal Society University Research Fellowship in “The Bioinorganic Chemistry of Aluminium and Silicon”.

[*] Parallelism, man, parallelism.

Autism a childhood form of Alzheimer’s?? Does this “expert” even know what Alzheimer’s is? Has he ever met one person afflicted with it? And what is the logical progression of ideas, starting there? That if granny has Alzheimer’s, we should make her drink bleach, because that will make her better?

The double standard is amazing. Any study involving any institution or researcher who has any connection to vaccines or immunology is discounted out of hand, but being funded by raving antivaccine lunatics is just hunky dory. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Murmur: It’s just as well Exley doesn’t work in any form of yer real, actual healthcare over here: he wouldn’t last 5 minutes…

You must not be American. As Dr. Hickie pointed out, there are several anti-vaxx physicians still working in the field- Bob Sears and Jay Gordon are just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a small minority of nurses who support vaccines, but most don’t.

@PGP: CUT IT F**KING OUT! “There’s a small minority of nurses who support vaccines, but most don’t” You know nothing about nurses, you know nothing about real people except the bugaboos in your head. If you don’t like where you live, leave. If you know a bad nurse, fine, but don’t impugn all of us with the bad nurse you know.

I’m so sick of your negative outlook. Yes, things aren’t perfect, but they aren’t as bad as you see. Try looking at the world without prejudice.

Try looking at the world without prejudice.

This unfortunately has a modicum of critical introspection as a prerequisite.

Yeah, it is getting too far. That’s like me seeing pgp and saying that all internet commentors are abrasive and generalizing.

OK…just found my typo – yesterday was a crazy day. Small number who DON’T support vaccines. The rest of the statements stand.

There’s a small minority of nurses who support vaccines, but most don’t.

WTF? Put up or shut up. Citation required. Don’t think that just because you generally agree with my outlook that I will not call you out when you start spewing utter bullshit.

Right.
Anti-vaxxers make much of a survey that said IIRC a significant proportion of nurses in the UK refused vaccines.
They also cite a group that opposed mandatory vaccines in NY state.
As well, they say “nurses refuse vaccines themselves”

HOWEVER I have never seen any hard figures showing how many nurses oppose or refuse vaccines,

If there were so many, I’d expect that they would routinely be trotted out by AoA. TMR and would appear at Autism One or write Skyhorse published books.
I watch this stuff regularly and I’ve only heard at most 3 or 4 nurses speak up against vaccines ever.

I have been to a lot of hospitals, and have yet to talk to an anti vaccine nurse. My pediatrician has wonderful nurses who are just the best at getting good blood draws and quick shots. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I got a flu shot and two boosters from one of them.

I’ll definitely hafta see a cite for that dribble.

Ellie: That if granny has Alzheimer’s, we should make her drink bleach, because that will make her better?

I’m sure someone somewhere has tried it. Alzheimer’s is a frustrating disease, simply because there’s little logic to it, we still don’t understand how it is caused or how it works and the way it increases vulnerability in an already vulnerable population. Also, there are several things that are not Alzheimers, though like Alzheimer’s, they attack the memory and reduce mental activity.

It just struck me as a particularly stupid thing to say. I do not have a medical background, but I volunteered for many years in an adult facility which included care for Alzheimer’s patients. I watched people disintegrate, and before their memory went, it could be so very painful for them, knowing what they were losing, and knowing what was to come. I saw people who forgot how to eat. To compare the two seems woefully and willfully ignorant.

No thank you. I can go to the USPTO web site and search “Alzheimer’s”, and do it for a lot less than you charge.

How many have you sold? Any chance they will wind up in a used bookstore near me?

Seriously.

Are you trying to peddle your books yet again? Are you secretly poor and need some quick cash to buy some latex-free gloves?

That England-Exley interview is comedy gold.

England: It has been thought for many years that thimerosal was responsible for causing autism; does your study put doubt on this as a theory?

Exley: No, since we have not researched mercury.

The passive voice is doing a lot of work in England’s leading question. The thimerosal-autism link has long since been disproven; some people have thought that thimerosal was responsible for causing autism, but for the last ten years or so, almost all such people have turned out to be anti-vaccine cranks. Exley is technically correct that his research has not falsified this alleged theory, but that’s because his research is asking a different leading question.

England: In your opinion, could autism be a childhood form of Alzheimer’s disease?

Exley: Actually, this thought has crossed my mind!

I have to assume that neither England nor Exley has encountered a case of autism in the wild, or they would know that England’s question was pure nonsense. That said, it is one thing for England, a layman, to make that mistake. It is another thing for an alleged expert like Exley to do so, even in reply to yet another leading question by England.

The passive voice is doing a lot of work in England’s leading question.

I think you mean “A lot of work is being done by the passive voice”.

Others have pointed out how sloppy Exley’s “research” is,but it wasn’t until I saw this video that I learned that Exley’s study was self-funded.This sort of explains everything.Either Exeley put up the money himself,or he crowd-funded from a bunch of antivax parents to get a study that would skew the results in their favor.This is a point that shouldn’t be ignored.

@ Eric Lund

…Exley is technically correct that his research has not falsified this alleged theory…

My take on the passage of the interview on thimerosal goes one step further:

Exley: “I just proved that aluminium is involved into the making of autism!”
England: “Great! Oh, I thought it was the mercury”
Exley: “That could be that, too, of course”

Actually the true cause of autism is kryptonite. Minute amounts of kryptonite pollute autistic children keeping them from being super children. (sarcasm)

I thought it changed them from Indigo Children into Autistic Children.

As an irrelevant aside, we were dining at a small local restaurant and overheard a parent say that their child had originally been diagnosed as autistic, but was later found to be gifted. He had learned to speak Japanes before he could speak English!

My guess would be that he watched a lot of anime.

MIDawn: Actually, my mother is a nurse, thank you. And for the most part, she’s fairly well-grounded, though she does believe in acupuncture, herbalism and weirdly, pet psychics. And we’re talking about an extraordinary willful, stubborn woman here. A lot of people, usually women but some men too, will simply adopt the beliefs of their peers and not examine them or go along because ‘it’s not worth arguing about it.’ So, out of a sample of fifty nurses, you’d have fifteen hard-core anti-vaxxers, twenty going along, and fifteen who understand the science of vaccines and will stick to their guns.

Exley, like other anti-vaxxers and woo-meisters in general, needs to ramp up fear in order to acquire an audience: then, when followers become extremely upset and worried about the future, the ‘expert’ relieves their fears by offering them a solution
( even though it is a fantasy and rooted in opportunism)-
avoid vaccines and you will be safe. These feelings are rewarding and attach to the bearer of the message,

In addition, they add the prerequisite conspiracy theory
( because what is woo without conspiracies as a support scaffolding?-it explains why this scientific brilliance is not accepted as start-of-the-art medicine)
implicating Pharma, Big Government and mainstream media: thus the listener / reader becomes part of a select in-group who understands the secret mechanisations of the powerful elite and SEES RIGHT THROUGH THEM.
The news won’t tell you this!

When woo-meisters run out of health concerns and substances ( Hg, Al, GMOs, toxins, gluten, casein, meat dairy, wheat etc) that cause them, they then survey macro-concerns ( the economy, global warming, the police state, inner city problems, corporatocracy, banking, whatever)
in the same fashion
.
Scare them then sell them- either products or ideas as well as your own persona
Exley is working it…

“” No doubt Christopher Exley would object to my characterization of him as “antivaccine.” How else can he be described, though? “” — corrupted and depleted I’d call it. A different ideology and sadly more pervasive. My one and only comment. I do like and read this blog because it is so important (to me). Thanks.

That said, of the two nurses I saw before I saw the doctor, both of them were very accommodating regarding vaccines. I had to update my dtap before the nib’s appearance, and I also got my flu shot in October. We were all sick after Thanksgiving though; some kind of nasty stomach bug followed by half a week of lethargy.

Oh, and MJD, you can eff right off. I’m not interested in your word salads. You’ve never even known anyone with Alzheimers.

My pediatrician has wonderful nurses who are just the best at getting good blood draws and quick shots.

Envy achieved. One of the main reasons I rejected Lithium was the never-ending blood draws. I just have tiny veins and, I’m no wuss – I have pretty high pain tolerance – but getting jabbed over and over again while they try to find a vein hurts. My psychiatrist was actually there once and, being a nice guy, was trying to distract me, but it didn’t work. So even he, once I got out of the hospital the second time, was like, “yeah, let’s try something else.”

Haven’t had a blood draw since I was in the psych ward summer of 16 and they tried to make me go on Lithium again.

Yeah, I’ve had… varying health issues for many years, so I’ve had a metric-butt-ton of sticks and pokes and prods. I’ve had so many, I have scar tissue forming in the crook of my right elbow. After like 20 draws I got used to it–it’s like a routine now: just don’t flinch or twitch or move too much.

And don’t even get me started on IV’s. I definitely have a scar from one of those. Eugh. Bigger needle means more ouch. Probably why shots hurt more than other needles.

Imagine doubling up on blood draws. Not literally, but let me speak of platelet donation.

The process is to draw out some blood, spin it to separate the components, drain off the platelets (and a small bit of plasma), recombine the rest, send that back to you, and repeat 7 or 8 times of so. Pretty much your entire blood volume is processed, and it takes about 1 to 1.5 hours.

Because of the volume, they use needles as big or bigger than used for basic blood draws. Also, you get one in each arm, one to draw, one to return (mostly – they can do one arm, and for a while single arm was standard with the Red Cross).

I’ve done over 300 donations. Figure 50 were single arm, so 550 sticks from that. Mobility requirements in the Air Force required staying up to date on shots for world wide deployments, plus various medical blood draws and other shots – – – I figure I might make 700 needle sticks before I die..

Scar tissue? Yep, both arms. Non-medical people have noticed it.

Dang. You have me beat by a lot! The closest I’ve had to that was banking blood for scoliosis surgery and having three IV’s and a catheter after a brain biopsy.

Also that sounds hecka not-fun. Is it as not-fun as it sounds?

For some people, yeah, it’s a whole lot of no fun, and some tolerate it better than others.

I’d go in after work, so while 10,000 of my closest friends were filling the highways, I’d hang out at the Red Cross.

They thin out your blood with a little saline and an anticoagulant, and after being in the machine, it comes back cooler than it left. To prevent being chilled, they cover you in a coupla blankets, even on the hottest day of the year.

The anticoagulant breaks down quickly, and, in some people, like me, produces a slightly tingly feeling, that passes about 2 minutes after they unhook you.

I’d have my iPod, chock full of podcast and music, but they also had mini-DVD players so you could watch movies.

And unlike friend JP, with her .22LR veins, mine are between .45ACP and .50BMG, so I’m an easy stick. Also, my platelet count runs high, so they could take 2 ‘therapeutic doses’, but that isn’t too unusual – maybe 30 to 40% can do that.

So I’d spend rush hour laying in a lounger, nicely covered and warm, listening to music with a slight buzz going, with no chance of hangover, unable to move, nothing to do but contemplate life, the universe, and everything, all while gathering good karma points in the process.

The worst part from my point of view was that I would relax enough that I’d almost always doze off, and have trouble falling asleep. Power nap is the technical term, I believe.

Occasional commenter ‘Alison’ does regular platelet donation, though I don’t know if she is approaching your record.

@ Smut Clyde – I did about 20 platelet donations (moved onto that from plasma, on account of I apparently have a lot of platelets). Had to stop & go back to whole blood because after a while, sadly, I didn’t just get the ‘tingles’ from the anticoagulant. I got this quite unpleasant ‘vibrating’ feeling; mentioned it to the nurse & that was the end of my platelet-giving. (If I understand it correctly, the anticoagulant is a calcium scavenger – which is why they give you a calcium-rich drink to sip while donating – & if it’s a bit too good at its job that can mess with your muscles’ ability to contract. And they don’t want that happening to anyone’s heart.)

Johnny,

Congrat 🙂

2 years of depakote with a monthly blood draw was painful. 24/700 is tiny compared with what you have or about to endure.

Alain

Exley claims that Aluminium (Al3+) is an antigen – boahh atomic weight 27 .In the first years of life, we all fall down and are injured- Al3+ comes into our body- and then we mast have antibodies to aluminium, or via nutrition since <1% of food aluminium is taken up in tje blood stream.

And he and C Dwoskin chared a discussion on the 10th Congress of Autoimmunity last year in Leipzig/Germany; The following questions were discussed:

Leipzig: Wednesday, April 6, 2016  12:00-17:30 Hall 2
Chairpersons: Claire Dwoskin, Chris Exley
Panel: ,L. Tomljenovic, Canada, Chris Exley, UK,Josette Cadusseau, France, Walter Kyle, USA
Why do you think that the authorities are trying to hide the truth?
What is the objective evidence that HPV vaccination is not justified?
What do you think, are the mechanisms by which vaccine can induce autoimmunity?

that one is hiding the truth is a MUST in conspiracy theories.

But what does Exley hide?
In his publications he claims to have no conflict of interest to declare. And below he thanks the CMRSI for financial support.
This shows, that he does not adhere to the principles of good scientific practice.

Some of Exley’s previous work with Al and the Fenton cycle really should be brought back to light.

Al(OH)3 is very sparingly soluble at a biologically relevant pH, so it’s not going to induce the Fenton cycle. They specifically say as much in his paper. Where are they expecting all this Al3+ to mystically appear from?

Wolfgang, of course Al is an antigen, provoking an immune response, how long do you think it stays in the bloodstream. post injection? Since in evolutionary terms, aluminium is a substance biology has never seen, why do think the body has reactions to it? Aluminium as the adjuvant has a half life of eight years in the body. There is a term I read for the reaction, hypersensitivity to it called The Arthus Response, look it up in Janeway’s Immunobiology.

Since in evolutionary terms, aluminium is a substance biology has never seen…

Um, what?
There is more aluminium in a single banana than there is in the entire vaccine schedule. Biology sees aluminium every time a plant grows in a feldspar and every time a plant that grew in a feldspar is eaten.

Where do you find any food that is grown in aluminum free soil?

And do you even know what “citation” means?

That is like proving silicon is vital to life, another very abundant element on this planet’s crust and in its soil. Mr. “I hate reality sockpuppet”, you do not have a clue.

Aluminium as the adjuvant has a half life of eight years in the body. There is a term I read for the reaction, hypersensitivity to it called The Arthus Response [sic], look it up in Janeway’s Immunobiology.

Very well. As I’ve actually had an SSLR, it bears no similarlity whatever to that which you’re claiming. In fact, I can’t even imagine how you managed to find this in your rectum.

Can’t say I know that yet about a Serum Sickness Like Reaction/response, it is written in the same chapter, they used to and still use this method to make snakebite antivenom.

In other anti-vax news…

Rossi ( AoA) tries taking advantage of the #metoo movement’s momentum by photoshopping the Time cover photo ( ‘person of the year’ women speaking out) and presenting them as anti-vax moms who no one believed now coming out liberated.

It’s NOT the same thing.

( on twiiter ( @ kimross1111) she appears to be declaring the original meaning as well)

I took a look at AoA today, and their <a href=”http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/12/violent-aggression-and-autism-the-hidden-shame-secret-cover-up.html””>main item reminded me that I had forgotten the details of the end of the Spourdalakis case. I shall now digress:

Local media reported at the time of the plea agreement that the Spourdalakis deal had been modeled after that of one Bonnie Liltz, who fatally overdosed her adult (adopted) daughter who had cerebral palsy via her feeding tube[*] — a “four year” prison term for “involuntary” manslaughter.

Liltz, it turns out, recently committed suicide rather than serving out the rest of her term.

chicagotribune[.]com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-disabled-daughter-killed-bonnie-liltz-cremation-20171128-story.html

I find Liltz to be a more sympathetic character than Spourdalakis (her attorney thought she would get probation), but I don’t think it’s a wise prosecutorial standard to embrace.

[*] Followed by token suicide attempt.

Because of the volume, they use needles as big or bigger than used for basic blood draws. Also, you get one in each arm, one to draw, one to return (mostly – they can do one arm, and for a while single arm was standard with the Red Cross).

I’ve tried to donate plasma, but they could never find a good vein. (I mean my veins are really tiny, apparently.

Such is life.

I’m not sure I can donate, but even if I could I still have a high resting heart rate that kept me from banking blood twice.

And wow, are your veins really that small? I’ve never heard of a too-small vein. Though that might just be because I’ve been lucky with my nurses.

The veins in my left arm come under that too-small category – even for normal draws for blood tests. A number of very good phlebotomists have tried, & failed, to get anything from the veins in the crook of my left elbow. As a result, I have a track of scar tissue in the right, along my donation site.

And wow, are your veins really that small? I’ve never heard of a too-small vein.

Yeah, one time when they were doing a blood draw they had me take off my shirt so they could look around for a vein; they went for that spot where your arm meets your torso, like sort of the front inner part of the shoulder, IIRC. They did finally get the blood, but they were constantly apologizing.

Ech, in your armpit/shoulder? The only medical instrument the should be there’s is a thermometer. At least they were nice about it.

I once encountered a nurse who was just the worst. I was getting an IV for a scan and she stuck me three goddamn times and didn’t get any of them. She also blew a vein in my right hand, and was quite unapologetic about it.

A “Suggested Group” on Facebook today is Stop Mandatory Vaccination, which has nearly 113,000 members, and well over 2,000 new posts in the last 24 hours.

Maybe they’re doing war dances and whoops of glee over Exley’s paper. It’s a closed group and I can’t bring myself to request membership.

Aluminum adjuvants are causing bowel diseases, why do youthinkvaccinated areas have high incidences of IBDs? Why do you think injecting a substance to irritate the immunity causes an increasing amount of disease of idiopathic nature?

Citation needed. They need to be PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers, and not funded by the Dwoskin family.

We have ‘commensal bacteria’ to protect our intestines from stomach acids, then Aluminium kills bacteria, so our intestines have less protection from acids and enzymes. Possibly as nutrients are absorbed, the aluminium affects the ion channels in cells, if absorbed it caused the cytoplasm to swell, seeing my inflamed colon, and calming it with a silicon rich mineral water. I saw the difference in the condition of it, Aluminium cleared water tastes foul to me, I know this is all anecdotal, it has to be since medicine treats it as a magical untouchable substance, don’t you dare find fault with our adjuvant. If you do all hell will come down on you, Even though Aluminium is unnecessary to life, it has no use, except what we use it for. My hope is that it becomes as unsavoury to use as asbestos.when you had UC as I did, the drugs were about as useful as a chocolate teapot. First time I was given Salofalk by my doc, use this, so I only tried it once. I know this is hearsay, someone’s got to say Aluminium is potentially bad for your health.

And we should care about your opinion on the third most common element of this planet’s crust because…? Your anecdote is not a citation.

“We have ‘commensal bacteria’ to protect our intestines from stomach acids”

Which bacteria are these?

Possibly as nutrients are absorbed, the aluminium affects the ion channels in cells, if absorbed it caused the cytoplasm to swell, seeing my inflamed colon, and calming it with a silicon rich mineral water.

I am also perplexed about who the actor is in this sentence-like object.

The bacteria we all have in our colon to aid digestion

If you do not know which specific species of bacteria you are crediting with the “stomach-acid-protective” properties, you must forgive people if they regard you as a mindless duckspeaking moron.

Think what you want I don’t care.

Evidently not, if you alternate between “Stewart Scott” and “freemefromulcerativecolitis” as sockpuppet IDs.

Possibly as nutrients are absorbed, the aluminium affects the ion channels in cells, if absorbed it caused the cytoplasm to swell, seeing my inflamed colon, and calming it with a silicon rich mineral water.

I am also perplexed about who the actor is in this sentence-like object.

It was Imperial Chemical Industries.

They saw your inflamed colon? Is English your first language?

Everyone here obviously loved the Exley paper too! Still not been “officially debunked” yet I see! I knew it was special when I read it. Wait to see what happens to the author … defamation, claims the research was faked, shame anyone who dissents from the accepted narrative, eventual suicide, who knows! Keep up the good work, without sites like this we might have to make up our own minds – by actually reading the articles. This one was interesting though….why so much aluminium in their brains?? Please, my esteemed friends, care to speculate?

Ready, fire, aim?

Come back after you’ve read this (Orac’s) article. The antidote to your fantasies is there.

In the second paragraph of the article above there are links to four different analyses of that silly paper. In short the study was done on brains using bad methods and without stating the medical backgrounds of any of the donors. Plus there are no controls.

I just added this to my blog (with links):

ETA 12.18.17: Buzzfeed just reported that scientists they spoke with, who have relevant experience have rejected this study due to the problems with the methodology listed here and on other blogs. Additionally, Christopher Exley has a substantial conflict of interest which he failed to report. It turns out he is a benefactor and shill for SilicaWaters.com who sell ACILIS by Spritzer, a product that is touted by Exley to remove aluminium from our bodies. SilicaWaters reports that 10% of their sales is donated to Exley’s research into the benefits of drinking silica-rich water.

So let me get this straight. This conflict of interest should lead us all to completely dismiss his research. Do I have that about right? Then why on earth should we listen to anything that has ever been said by Dr. Offit? Or Sen. Pan?

Before you start proclaiming that Exley is the modern day originator of the vaccine safety movement, please realize that when you say he is a “benefactor” of SilicaWaters.com, that’s just your mealy-mouthed way of not having to say that no, he doesn’t “shill” for SilicaWaters (in fact in several online sources I see him actually recommending a different brand of silica water). The only financial relationship between Exley and SilicaWaters is an arrangement whereby 10% of their sails of their water will go towards helping to fund research, and this includes Exley’s research.

I suggest someone retain the services of Brian Deer to once again make this into something it is not.

The issue with a COI in this case is not its existence; it’s non-disclosure. No, it wouldn’t negate findings by itself; in this case, the other flaws, also mentioned here, in the Justthevax piece, and Buzzfeed do that.

But would you agree an author should disclose a COI on a paper like this?

I absolutely would agree that any author should disclose conflicts of interest like this. I’ve been saying that for years, but the only time I ever hear the likes of you and Gorski et. al. bringing this up is when it suits your purpose. You all routinely and completely ignore the glaring corporate COI’s which infest just about every pro-vaccine effort out there (Every Child by Two, GAVI, Autism Speaks, etc. etc.).

None of which have published similar studies with no disclosure, and all of which have their donor information public (and are not directly benefiting from any product, to my knowledge. GAVI, for example, helps fund vaccines in poor countries. What’s the COI? Taking vaccine donations from Pharma? How is that a COI given their mission? What’s the profit motive?). I’m not sure how you see an equivalent to this instance.

But thank you for agreeing that the COI should have been published.

When Aluminum cleared water stings at the back of my throat and I will start a U.C. flare on drinking a municipal water. We have never been as exposed to it as we have been, since we started to use it about a century ago.
I have seen the inflammation on my colon, and the effect of silicon rich mineral waters on the sigmoid colon, I was able to notice the inflamed parts from in it. How pitted the swollen section looked as if Aluminum broke/released the tight junctions holding cells in place. I’ll look up the exact term later, and Aluminum has no place in cells (biology).
Dissolved rocks by aluminum, please that’s more from Carbonic acid, CO2 dissolved in water.

ASk the site’s author about Sanofi-Aventis donating to his university in exchange for conducting clinical trials of riluzole – possibly with outcomes favourable to the benefactor.

Why don’t you use the search box for some of those words? It’s been addressed.

As to your little girl, what this research means is that you can continue to protect her from dangerous diseases because this attempt to claim the vaccines on the schedule cause autism, in spite of the data showing they don’t and are very safe, is also invalid. I hope you do protect her, and if not, that she is surrounded by responsible neighbors who offer her some protection from polio, hib, and diphtheria by vaccinating their children. All the best health to her.

Professor Exley is against the use of Aluminum/Aluminium in vaccines as the adjuvant, especially to those who believe it just leaves the body fairly rapidly post vaccination, since it has never been encountered in evolution.

Aluminum is one of the most common elements in the Earth’s crust. It’s been encountered plenty.

You know what hasn’t been “encountered in evolution”? Computers. Blogs. Airplanes. Cars.

Thank God someone found a conflict of interest, now my little girl can finally get all those lovely toxic metals pumped into her veins.

What toxins are being pumped into her veins? No vaccine is given intravenously. Do tell us which toxin in the vaccine is more dangerous than tetanospasmin. I asked you for PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers to support your claims, where are they?

Also, why does it have to be vaccines? Especially in regards to autism when there is real research like this:
http://spark-sf.s3.amazonaws.com/SPARK_gene_list.pdf

ICI is or was a chemical industry, a large chemical company, paints and stuff. Look up I.C.I. Ltd. They are/big.

What are you blabbering about? What does that to do with the actual research funded by the Simons Foundation?

Again, where do they grow food in aluminum free soil?

Chris you repeatedly insist that others provide “PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers” to back up their claims, yet I cannot remember one example of you doing the same? Perhaps one reason is that the majority of your comments are nothing more than ad hominem attacks that do not contain any substantial information.

Please stop trying to pretend that the genetic studies like that done by the SPARK group has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not we can rule out vaccines as a cause of autism. I’ve tried to explain this to you before, let me try again. Most vaccine safety advocates who believe that vaccines can trigger autism also firmly believe that there must be genetic susceptibilities in certain children, and that there are likely interactions between environmental insults, including vaccination, and these genetic vulnerabilities. Some of these vulnerabilities have even been mapped, such that we understand that one genetic variant leads to a depletion of glutathione, so the mechanism to clear the body of heavy metals and other toxic substances is impaired. I am sure they will no doubt find a number of genetic profiles, and eventually specific genetic mutations, which predispose an individual to autism. This does not mean that those genetic mutations directly caused autism. There can be no such thing as a genetic epidemic. Let that sink in, read it several times and see if you can wrap your head around why that should not require “PubMed indexed studies” to understand what should be perfectly obvious.

Have you looked up in Pubmed in The Toxicity of Aluminum where it writes the exposure to Aluminum wherever possible should be avoided.

Mr. Foster: “yet I cannot remember one example of you doing the same?”

Because I do not make claims unless I can back them up, and I do post the PubMed indexed studies that support them quite often. I mostly ask questions, questions that you seem to be unable to answer.

By the way, the SPARKS study and others have discovered the genetic sequences responsible for more than half of the autism spectrum disorders. Learn some more here:
https://sparkforautism.org/discover/

Oooh, look! There is an article on that page about how the SCN2A gene is probably the cause of one out of around three hundred cases of autism. Real science so much better than just making stuff up. Kind like Exley and his Silicawaters!

Davey Foster: “Mr. Foster: “yet I cannot remember one example of you doing the same?””

So on December 8, 2017 I responded to you with this comment:
https://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/11/29/christopher-exley-using-bad-science-to-demonize-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines/#comment-385237

Let me repeat it for you, since you seem to have an issue with finding the links in comments. Possibly because their color is just a lighter than the main text color (gray instead of blue):

Also, Mr. Foster, before you can show some random ingredient in a vaccine is the “cause” of autism, you first need to prove autism is caused by vaccinating.

That step has not been done. In fact, several large studies have shown vaccines are not associated with autism:
Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies (a pdf of the uncorrected proof)

What real research has discovered are the genetic sequences that cause about half of the cases of autism. There are even similarities between those with the same sequences, which has spawned online support groups for some of them.

Plus! There have been actual factual scientifically valid therapies for a few.

Still thinking vaccines cause autism is lame, a waste of time and costly. Both by causing unnecessary illness in children, and by parents spending money on dubious “treatments.”

Note the meta-study that is referenced is an embedded link. By the way “meta-study” is a study of lots of studies. Now here is the actual link of the pdf of the uncorrected proof, which I provided because the final approved paper is behind a paywall:
http://autismoevaccini.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/vaccines-are-not-associated-with-autism.pdf

Again I ask: why does it have to be vaccines? Especially since actual factual science has discovered the genetic sequences that cause more than half of the autism spectrum disorders. And some of them even include actual factual treatments, and some gene specific online support sites.

Chris the meta-analysis you cited (link below) is a great example of Garbage-In-Garbage-Out. Here is what you cited:

https://autismoevaccini.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/vaccines-are-not-associated-with-autism.pdf

The authors are quite vague about how exactly they narrow down a field of thousands of studies to just 10, but all of the studies included have serious methodological issues, some so egregious that I would agree with the use of the term “malfeasance” to characterize them. You can find criticisms of most if not all of these studies here:

Vaccines and Autism : What do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
https://worldmercuryproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/SafeMinds-Epidemiological-Rebuttal.pdf

Methodological Issues and Evidence of Malfeasance in Research Purporting to Show Thimerosal in Vaccines Is Safe
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/

Fourteen Studies : Studies Ranked
https://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies_thimerosal.html
https://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies_mmr.html

I already know what you and others are going to say about the sources for these, but what I am really curious to see is whether or not you are willing and/or able to actually refute any of the criticisms provided. I highly doubt it.

I am sure they will no doubt find a number of genetic profiles, and eventually specific genetic mutations, which predispose an individual to autism. This does not mean that those genetic mutations directly caused autism.

Ah, they were lying in wait for the development of vaccines. Now it’s all clear.

Mr. Scott: “Have you looked up in Pubmed in The Toxicity of Aluminum where it writes the exposure to Aluminum wherever possible should be avoided.”

Um, no. You are making the claim, therefore you need to provide the citation (hmmm, I used that word again… do you know what it means?). You have not provided anything to prove your claims other that you never took a science course in your life.

“Have you looked up in Pubmed in The Toxicity of Aluminum where it writes the exposure to Aluminum wherever possible should be avoided.”

Well, I tried to look up The Toxicity of Aluminum in PubMed, but it doesn’t seem to be indexed. Nearest thing I could find on Google was a PowerPoint presentation by a naturopath, relying on homeopathy. As such,, it was obviously not a scientific paper.

“…the exposure to Aluminum wherever possible should be avoided.” Gonna be difficult, since adults ingest/inhale around 7-9mg/day & as others have noted, living things have been exposed to aluminium for some billions of years…

The ICI in response to a remark about the Pofs CV, who he has worked for.

Where do they grow food in Aluminum free soil, where industrialisation of farming doesn’t occur. It since the metalloid has been freed of its ore Bauxite. Aluminum cleared water is the bane of my life, if I drink any I get my Ulcerative Colitis back, he used a silicon rich mineral water to test people for exposure to ‘inimical’ (means harmful) Aluminum.

“Where do they grow food in Aluminum free soil, where industrialisation of farming doesn’t occur.”

Wrong, wrong, wrongety wrong. Aluminum, along with silicon, oxygen and other elements are what the main mineral in soil, feldspar, is composed. You obviously do not understand how aluminum is the third most common element on this planet’s crust. And why you have been told this nugget of info multiple times on this thread.

It is everywhere, and all food has been grown in soil with aluminum as a component since before there were even human beings. Feldspar and mica are the minerals in soil that contain aluminum (it is the Al part of the compound):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil#Parent_material

Feldspars are composed of potassium, aluminum, silicon, and oxygen. This is why there is aluminum in the soil. You mostly get it by breathing dust that is kicked up by wind over grown.

There is also aluminum in water, because like rain erosion dissolves tiny bits of rock, soil, etc and they then flow into rivers. Again, this has been happening since before there even plants

You have demonstrated that you have never in your life taken a science course. You are just making stuff up, and do not even understand what the word “citation” means. Please go to your closest community college and sign up for some adult basic education classes starting with biology, chemistry and earth sciences.

Feldspar and mica are the minerals in soil that contain aluminum (it is the Al part of the compound):

No love for clay? Or “hydrous aluminium silicate” if you want to sound classy.

Aluminum cleared water is the bane of my life, if I drink any I get my Ulcerative Colitis back, he used a silicon rich mineral water to test people for exposure to ‘inimical’ (means harmful) Aluminum.

You’re not by any chance related to this self-promoting commenter, are you?

But between the sock puppets and the excessive fact free posts, you are troll. Here is a song for you while you while away your time under the bridge:

Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Rawhide!
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Though the threads are swollen
Keep them comments trollin’,
Rawhide!

Cherry pick!
(Head em’ up!)
Move goalposts!
(Move ’em on!)
More insults!
(Head em’ up!)
Rawhide!
Make stuff up!
(Paste ’em in!)
Change topics!
(Cut em’ out!)
Whine some more!
Paste ’em in,
Rawhide!
Keep trollin’, trollin’, trollin’
Though they’re disaprovin’
Keep them comments trollin”,
Rawhide!
Don’t try to understand ’em
Just rope, laugh, and ignore ’em
Soon we’ll be discussin’ right without ’em

David Foster: “You all routinely and completely ignore the glaring corporate COI’s which infest just about every pro-vaccine effort out there”

Please share what you think are “pro-vaccine” studies that are as execrably bad as Exley’s paper and which also have “glaring” conflicts of interest.

(crickets)

Also, I’ve lost count of how many woo claims are based on “what should be perfectly obvious” instead of good evidence.

Well Dangerous Bacon I could provide the same criticisms I shared with Chris, the paper with “malfeasance” in the title has the worst studies.

Vaccines and Autism : What do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
https://worldmercuryproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/SafeMinds-Epidemiological-Rebuttal.pdf

Methodological Issues and Evidence of Malfeasance in Research Purporting to Show Thimerosal in Vaccines Is Safe
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/

Fourteen Studies : Studies Ranked
https://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies_thimerosal.html
https://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies_mmr.html

Mr. Foster, again why does it have to be vaccines? Love the link to the World Mercury Project, that is full of folks who want to get money from a failed hypothesis. One that has been a non-starter for fifteen years when thimerosal was removed. Which created this plea by one their partners:

Subject: Thimerosal DTaP Needed
From: Sally Bernard
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:01:50 -0400
Yahoo! Message Number: 27456
Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/27456.html

Hi all:

A group of university-based researchers needs several vials of the older DTaP vaccine formulations which contained thimerosal for a legitimate research study. If anyone knows an MD who might have some of these vaccines or knows where to get them, please email me privately.

Thank you.

Sallie Bernard
Executive Director
Safe Minds

Stop living in the 20th century, get some real science:
http://spark-sf.s3.amazonaws.com/SPARK_gene_list.pdf

If there’s no link between toxic metals and autistic like symptoms, with the increasing number of people refusing vaccinations for their kids, we should see little difference to the numbers of ASD diagnoses.

If there’s no link between toxic metals and autistic like symptoms, with the increasing number of people refusing vaccinations for their kids, we should see little difference to the numbers of ASD diagnoses.

What kind of dressing would you like on that word salad? (1) Vaccines are the only source of “toxic metals”? (2) What’s the first derivative of that “increasing number”?

For that matter, there hasn’t been any difference since the withdrawal of thimerosal, which is why people are babbling about aluminum instead.

Maybe it was always Aluminum.

Maybe you should respond substantively to all of the points that have been raised in response to your comments (including the one that you just ignored most of) rather than playing drive-by.

Maybe it has always been Aluminum that caused these diseases, it has a limit of concentration per liter in water, and is of no biological use, there is a limit of concentration per liter in water from NATO, I Can taste it, very bitter, water shouldn’t taste of anything.

Maybe it has always been Aluminum that caused these diseases

Even if we accept your premise as valid (I don’t), the amount of aluminium in vaccines is so minuscule it would not have an effect.

there is a limit of concentration per liter in water from NATO

I am not sure that NATO gets to set limits like that. How are member states going to enforce the limit? Invade countries that are in violation?

I am not sure that NATO gets to set limits like that.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Stewart Scott doesn’t understand what the NATO ASI conference series is.

^^^ No, I have no idea what he’s talking about. Maybe coagulant residues or something, maybe pure fantasy.

Wrong again, when data from Denmark is analyzed correctly there was a very clear decrease in the rates of autism following the removal of thimerosal from vaccines in that country. They removed mercury years before the US did, so this was also before all of the more recent alum-adjuvanted vaccines were added to that country’s schedule.

https://www.safeminds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Blaxill-DenmarkAutismThimerosalPediatrics.pdf

This is an analysis from Safeminds, by Mark Blaxill. How ’bout once, just once, folks on this site address the content of this analysis…tell me why it is wrong. We all already know that you think Safeminds and Mark Blaxill is woo…but see if you can stick to the content.

when data from Denmark is analyzed correctly there was a very clear decrease in the rates of autism following the removal of thimerosal from vaccines in that country. They removed mercury years before the US did, so this was also before all of the more recent alum-adjuvanted vaccines were added to that country’s schedule.

It looks like you’re aiming for a “Heads I win, Tails you lose” style of argumentation there, where any post-thimerosal decrease in autism would be read as “see, autism = mercury after all”, while any increase would be ascribed to this belated Danish discovery of alum-adjuvanted vaccines (what were they using beforehand?)… either way confirming expectations that “Vaccines dunnit”. Or maybe you’re just confused and have confounded two incompatible vaccine-blaming arguments in a kind of mental train-wreck. Either way, you borked the landing so I must award 0 points.

We all already know that you think Safeminds and Mark Blaxill is woo

No, no, “woo” applies to ooky-spooky mysticism and hand-waving invocations of worship words like “quantum”. Blaxill and Safeminds are simply too intellectually honest to waste any time on. A completely different reason for them being not even wrong.

too intellectually honest
Oops, accidental unintentional sarcasm there. Insert “dis” into that sentence, whereever it seems to fit best.

Just for fun, I actually opened and read Blaxill’s paper. It’s quite a contrast to Matt Carey’s discussion.

For starters, he claims that thimerosol has been causally linked to autism and cites a paper from Medical Hypotheses and U.S. Congress (?!?!?) as references!

He then goes on and on about changes in record keeping and diagnostic criteria as a reason to ignore the Madsen paper, although I doubt if he has ever acknowledged that similar changes in the U.S. might be responsible for the increase in the U.S. it’s also funny that this is the same paper that antivaxxers summarily dismiss because of later misbehavior by one of the minor contributors.

I actually learned a couple things from Matt Carey’s blog. He gives a good explanation for how diagnosis for less debilitating ASD’s can occur many years after birth and contribute to changes in prevalence. He also pointed out the rise in childhood autism, although I don’t see that when I opened it this time ??

Josh,

You might want to learn the definition of both words: prevalence and incidence.

Prevalence
The total number of cases of a given disease in a specified population at a designated time. It is differentiated from INCIDENCE, which refers to the number of new cases in the population at a given time.

Source:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/68015995

Incidence

The number of new cases of a given disease during a given period in a specified population. It also is used for the rate at which new events occur in a defined population. It is differentiated from PREVALENCE, which refers to all cases, new or old, in the population at a given time.

Source:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/68015994

Nearly all of the epidemiological studies has been studies of prevalence.

Alain

I am confused. Genuinely. I read the review of aluminum adjuvant studies recently published in the journal of inorganic biochemistry. There were 5 authors. They didnt seem to be antivax on their face. Maybe they are compromised in some way. I also read a review by Petrovsky from I think 2015 that said a similar thing: aluminum in its injected form has a potential for harm insofar as the dose and timing and it needs to be specifically studied preferably by government agencies to avoid the appearance of the kind of conflicts you mention. So do you think injectable aluminum in the doses that exist right now has been studied in animals or other. Apologies in advance. I would read those studies and send them to my friends and family. Not a doctor. Not a troll. Genuinely asking. (please dont post this if you suspect I am someone other than what I am saying. ) Just point me in the right direction. I went to the NIH website and could not find studies of aluminum in vaccines. I entered aluminum adjuvant safety and could not find anything other than papers suggesting it be studied. Or safety standards based on other kinds of aluminum. I would be extremely relieved if those studies exist.
Please help.

I read the review of aluminum adjuvant studies recently published in the journal of inorganic biochemistry. There were 5 authors.

Academic citations don’t work like that.

Anyone who actually goes to the trouble to research the issue of possible safety issues with using aluminum adjuvant in vaccines would experience similar confusion whenever reading this blog. Here’s a question you can try asking them: “What is the precise mechanism by which aluminum salts act as an adjuvant and increase the immune response to a vaccine?” See if you get any answer. The simple fact is, we have been using aluminum salts in vaccines for decades and we STILL do not fully understand how or why it behaves as an adjuvant.

Then ask them to show you the research which shows that injecting aluminum is safe. The vast majority of vaccine safety trials for vaccines added over the past 20 years have used as their “control” group subjects who received either (1) what they call an “inert” shot…basically the vaccine minus the bacteria or virus material…which by definition still contains the Al adjuvant; (2) another vaccine which also contains Al adjuvant (and the safety of this other vaccine was tested using the flawed methodology).

Here is some research which should give us all reason to be concerned about the safety of aluminum in vaccines:

Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/99
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2013-04-12/vaccines-alum-adjuvant-path-to-brain-found/
“Although generally well tolerated, alum is occasionally detected within monocyte-lineage cells long after immunization in presumably susceptible individuals with systemic/neurologic manifestations or autoimmune (inflammatory) syndrome induced by adjuvants (ASIA).”
“Intramuscular injection of alum-containing vaccine was associated with the appearance of aluminum deposits in distant organs, such as spleen and brain where they were still detected one year after injection.”
“Nanomaterials can be transported by monocyte-lineage cells to DLNs, blood and spleen, and, similarly to HIV, may use CCL2-dependent mechanisms to penetrate the brain. This occurs at a very low rate in normal conditions explaining good overall tolerance of alum despite its strong neurotoxic potential. However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier or high constitutive CCL-2 production.”

Aluminum Adjuvant Induces Motor Neuron Death in Mice (Shaw et al)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826
“Behavioral testing showed motor deficits in the aluminum treatment group that expressed as a progressive decrease in strength measured by the wire-mesh hang test (final deficit at 24 wk; about 50%). Significant cognitive deficits in water-maze learning were observed in the combined aluminum and squalene group (4.3 errors per trial) compared with the controls (0.2 errors per trial) after 20 wk. Apoptotic neurons were identified in aluminum-injected animals that showed significantly increased activated caspase-3 labeling in lumbar spinal cord (255%) and primary motor cortex (192%) compared with the controls. Aluminum-treated groups also showed significant motor neuron loss (35%) and increased numbers of astrocytes (350%) in the lumbar spinal cord. The findings suggest a possible role for the aluminum adjuvant in some neurological features associated with GWI and possibly an additional role for the combination of adjuvants.”

Non-linear dose-response of aluminium hydroxide adjuvant particles: Selective low dose neurotoxicity
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X16303043#bib0135
“An unusual neuro-toxicological pattern limited to a low dose of Alhydrogel® was observed. Neurobehavioural changes, including decreased activity levels and altered anxiety-like behaviour, were observed compared to controls in animals exposed to 200 μg Al/kg but not at 400 and 800 μg Al/kg. Consistently, microglial number appeared increased in the ventral forebrain of the 200 μg Al/kg group. Cerebral Al levels were selectively increased in animals exposed to the lowest dose, while muscle granulomas had almost completely disappeared at 6 months in these animals.”
“We conclude that Alhydrogel® injected at low dose in mouse muscle may selectively induce long-term Al cerebral accumulation and neurotoxic effects.”

Troubling Research Revealed at 12th Keele Conference on Aluminum [March 2017]
http://info.cmsri.org/aluminum-and-your-health-blog/the-health-impact-of-perhaps-the-most-toxic-and-prevalent-environmental-exposure-humans-face-today

Insight into the cellular fate and toxicity of aluminium adjuvants used in clinically approved human vaccinations
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578
“High loading of aluminium oxyhydroxide in the cytoplasm of THP-1 cells without immediate cytotoxicity might predispose this form of aluminium adjuvant to its subsequent transport throughout the body including access to the brain.”

“Aluminum Adjuvant Induces Motor Neuron Death in Mice”

I am not a mouse. Are you? I am also not a petri dish.

Again, why vaccines? Why does it have to be vaccines? Especially since several large epidemiology studies done in several countries covering hundreds of thousands of children show no correlation between autism and vaccines.

Yet the math ignorant continue to dismiss the math discipline created by Sir Ronald Ross.

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