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Did Gardasil kill Colton Berrett? The answer is almost certainly no.

Colton Barrett was a 17 year old boy who developed acute transverse myelitis at age 13, which left him partially paralyzed and dependent on a portable ventilator. Tragically, he died less than two weeks ago. His mother blames Gardasil, which he received two weeks before his first symptoms appeared, for his neurologic illness and death. However, Gardasil almost certainly had nothing to do with Colton’s illness.

I’ve written about the vaccine against the human papilloma virus (HPV) on many occasions, possibly almost as many times as I’ve written about the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine. The reason is obvious. For some reason, the antivaccine movement harbors an unusually high degree of hostility for and fear of HPV vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix even for antivaxers. Strike that. The reason is not that mysterious. Gardasil protects prevents cervical cancer by protecting against HPV, which is primarily a sexually transmitted disease. It is recommended for preteen girls—and, more recently, boys—to ensure that they are protected before they become sexually active, although many who receive it are teens. Basically, yes, it’s primarily about sex, which is why one of the most persistent bits of antivaccine fear mongering about Gardasil is that it causes premature ovarian failure and infertility. It doesn’t.

Perhaps the most pernicious and despicable bit of antivaccine fear mongering is the claim that Gardasil doesn’t just cause premature ovarian failure but rather that it kills teens. I’ve discussed with a number of these cases over the years. Suffice to say that, when critically examined, the evidence for a link between Gardasil and and the deaths attributed to the vaccine is almost always incredibly thin and unconvincing, although that doesn’t stop our old antivaccine “friend” Christopher Shaw from having tried to convince New Zealand health authorities that HPV vaccination does cause sudden death. Unfortunately, sometimes credulous journalists pick pick up on the “HPV=DEATH!” fear mongering to publish truly irresponsible articles. The cases used are tragic, and the stories told heart-breaking. No person with an ounce of compassion can read any of them without feeling his heart break for the pain the child who became ill and died suffered and the grief of her family. One can even understand how the parents might come to blame Gardasil, even on the most tenuous of correlation. Discussing such stories requires care and tact, because inevitably any skeptical look at the narrative being promoted by the antivaccine movement will be portrayed as an attack on the dead child and his grieving family.

Unfortunately, there’s another one of these stories making the rounds. I stayed away as long as I could, but I kept seeing more and more posts on antivaccine websites, blogs, and Facebook pages that I finally couldn’t ignore it any more. I’m referring to the tragic case of a young man named Colton Berrett, who has been portrayed as “another teen sacrificed by the HPV vaccine.” Basically, Berrett was an 17-year-old who suffered from transverse myelitis, which his mother blamed on his receiving Gardasil. As you will see, as is usual with tragic cases like that of Colton Berrett, the story does not even provide a strong suggestion that Gardasil caused this unfortunate young man’s health problems and ultimate death.

None of this stops Melissa Curtin of Stop Mandatory Vaccination from outrage at the death as having definitely been due to Gardasil:

Deep tidal waves of sadness and devastation shook a community of parents, caregivers, family and friends of vaccine injured and deceased children to its core — after learning about the death of Colton Berrett on January 5th, 2018, in Utah. Heartbreaking, heart-shattering, devastating, horrific, crushing – and most importantly, unnecessary. Another tragic death of a child damaged by and caused from vaccines, and in this case, it was the Gardasil/Human Papilloma Virus Vaccine (HPV) that took his life. Colton is one of thousands of severely vaccine injured children who ultimately lost his life and succumbed to the toxic travesty of vaccine injury and damage. He courageously battled for his survival. May he rest in peace and his story be shared widely. May his family be surrounded by love, community, and find peace in their hearts through this difficult time.

Colton was a vibrant, healthy, lively, intelligent, happy, positive, athletic, thrill-seeking boy with unbridled potential and a bright future. Only his future and life was robbed not just from him, but also from his loving family, his mother, father, and two siblings, from everyone that met him, and the larger community and world that will never have the opportunity to meet this adventurous, courageous, young man.

I have no doubt that Colton was likely as described. I have no doubt that his family is grieving and suffering. I have no doubt that, before his death, Colton suffered. However, I have many doubts about the claims being made that Gardasil caused his illness and demise, for reasons that I will explain.

It doesn’t help that it was Polly Tommey and the VAXXED crew who first publicized his story in the antivaccine underground:

Whenever I see anyone who had anything to do with the antivaccine propaganda
“documentary” VAXXED
, which was produced by Del Bigtree and directed by Andrew Wakefield, I see many red flags. After all, since the release of the movie in 2016, the VAXXED crew has been cruising the country, collecting stories like that of Colton that they can use in a followup movie, harassing scientists, and trying to influence legislators to pass laws favorable to their antivaccine agenda. In other words, not only is the VAXXED crew not objective, its members are the farthest from objective that you can imagine. They are die-hard ideologues who believe, against all evidence otherwise, that vaccines cause serious harm. Anything posted by VAXXED is to be viewed with extreme skepticism.

The video and his mother’s account above agree here:

A medical physical was required for Colton to attend a scout camp. This was prior to his 8th grade school year. His pediatrician and long-time family doctor recommended the HPV Vaccine to his mother, Kathleen. His doctor claimed the HPV Vaccine could help prevent cancer, and even if Colton was not promiscuous, he could give the virus to his future wife. Like many parents, Kathleen trusted her doctor. She confidently shared, “The doctor is the one who went to school, and of course you’re going to do what he recommends.”

So Colton got the Gardasil series. Because this was four years ago, he got the old three shot series, where the doses are administered at 0, 1-2, and 6 months. (Note that this was the old schedule. The CDC now recommends a two dose schedule for children under 15, with doses at 0 and 6-12 months.)

Colton received the first two doses of Gardasil without any reported problems. In the video above, his mother doesn’t mention any issue until the third dose, nor does any account that I’ve been able to find. Consequently, for six months and two doses, Colton was fine. Then this happened:

Colton was administered the third round of the Gardasil/ HPV Vaccine on February 1, 2014, about a month and a half just shy of his 14th birthday. About two weeks after, he experienced a painful neck ache following the vaccine and was given Tylenol to alleviate the pain. Adventurous by nature, the next day, Colton and his dad went motor-cross riding to use Colton’s new bike. That day when he arrived home, he became pale, started to feel nauseous, and was not well that evening – he headed to bed. Kathleen continued to check on him throughout the night and Colton expressed he could not use his right arm. Intuitively, Kathleen worried if he had spinal meningitis and if her son was going paralyzed. A mother’s or any concerned parent’s nightmare.

Colton’s dad brought Colton to urgent care at Primary Children’s Hospital in Salt Lake City the next morning, on Monday, February 17, 2014. Colton was almost completely paralyzed and that was the beginning of his 88 day hospital stay. Doctors and staff discovered through speaking with Colton’s parents that he was healthy, active, and not sick, until he received the HPV Vaccine two weeks earlier and experienced the neck ache. It was agreed that Colton suffered a severe adverse reaction and vaccine injury to the Gardasil vaccine. The doctors reported his vaccine injury to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

So, basically, Colton had no problems at all until two weeks after the third dose of Gardasil. What I find odd is the account that the doctors were so quick to say that they were going to report Colton’s case to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), particularly after the third dose. Be that as it may, this is what happened next:

Colton was originally diagnosed with Acute Longitudinal Transverse Myelitis; C1 through T-12 were affected (Cervical-1, through Thoracic-12). The inflammation in his spinal cord caused the paralysis which started in his neck and full right arm. His left arm was starting to lose function and become paralyzed. Colton was also having difficulty breathing, so intubation and a ventilator were needed. Paralysis continued spreading throughout his body and it was not too long before Colton lost his speech ability. Able only to communicate using the “thumbs up or thumbs down” method, that was soon halted due to loss of movement in his thumbs. Colton’s new reality included daily therapy to avoid infection and pneumonia, irregular temperature regulation, hot/cold packs for the spikes and drops in temperature, being uncomfortable with a cervical collar, and all this with a 15 pound ventilator/breathing machine. His family referred to this as his “ball and chain.”

Acute longitudinal transverse myelitis is a condition that involves inflammation of the spinal cord, in Colton’s case, C1-T12, which is a huge stretch of spinal cord. Here is a schematic of the spinal cord below that shows what a large portion of the spinal cord that was involved:

Spinal cord
Spinal cord

There are a number of suspected causes of ALTM. The National Institute of Neurologic Disorders and Stroke notes that the cause of ALTM is unknown in most cases, but that the discovery of circulating antibodies to the proteins aquaporin-4 and anti-myelin oligodendrocyte point to a definite cause in some individuals with transverse myelitis. Aquaporin-4 is a key protein that carries water through the cell membrane of neural cells. The myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein sits on the outer layer of myelin. Basically, the NINDS notes that the following conditions predispose to ATLM:

  • Immune system disorders
  • Viral infections. Associated viruses include herpes viruses such as varicella zoster (the virus that causes chickenpox and shingles), herpes simplex, cytomegalovirus, and Epstein-Barr; flaviviruses such as West Nile and Zika; influenza, echovirus, hepatitis B, mumps, pertussis, tetanus, diphtheria, measles, and rubella.
  • Bacterial infections such as syphilis, tuberculosis, actinomyces and Lyme disease. Bacterial skin infections, middle-ear infections, campylobacter jejuni gastroenteritis, and mycoplasma bacterial pneumonia have also been associated with the condition.
  • Fungal infections in the spinal cord, including Aspergillus, Blastomyces, Coccidioides, and Cryptococcus.
  • Parasites, including Toxoplasmosis, Cysticercosis, Shistosomiasis, and Angtiostrongyloides.
  • Other inflammatory disorders that can affect the spinal cord, such as sarcoidosis, systemic lupus erythematosus, Sjogren’s syndrome, mixed connective tissue disease, scleroderma, and Bechet’s syndrome.
  • Vascular disorders such as arteriovenous malformation, dural arterial-venous fistula, intra spinal cavernous malformations, or disk embolism.

Transverse myelitis can also be the first symptom of an autoimmune disease, such as multiple sclerosis or neuromyelitis optica.

The disease is treated by a number of modalities, depending on what is thought to be the etiology. These modalities can include steroids, plasma exchange, intravenous immunoglobulin, antiviral medications, and other medications to treat symptoms. Most people with transverse myelitis have at least partial recovery, with most recovery occurring within three months after symptoms arise, although in some patients recovery might take two years. However, if there is no improvement within three to six months complete recovery is very unlikely, and rapid onset of symptoms (as happened with Colton) generally results in poorer recovery.

According to the account, Colton had to be intubated, and you can see that he still has a tracheostomy tube and is using a portable ventilator, which he and his parents call his “ball and chain.” He was quadriplegic for a month and a half, and he was unable to communicate for a time other than with his eyebrows and facial expressions. As of the time this video was recorded, his right arm remained paralyzed, and he had little use of his left arm. He has, however, regained his core strength and the use of his legs, after a couple of years of physical therapy. Overall, one can’t help but feel empathy for what this young man has gone through and for what he has continued to go through.

But did Gardasil cause Colton’s ALTM? It’s highly unlikely. For one thing, evidence does not support a link. A recent study of 64 million doses of vaccines found no association between transverse myelitis and prior immunization. Another explanation for why comes courtesy of someone who knows a lot more about the disease than I do and occurs in the comments after this Facebook post:

This post was made in response to a blog post by James Lyon Weiler, Who and What Killed Colton Berrett?, where he charges:

The vaccine changed the life of his family forever – and now, Colton is gone – forever.

I’m a scientist focused on root causes. It is no mystery to me what – and who – killed Colton Berrett.

Selfishness killed Colton Berrett.

Profit killed Colton Berrett.

Vaccine Risk Denialism killed Colton Berrett.

Direct-to-Consumer Marketing killed Colton Berrett.

The FCC killed Colton Berrett.

Pharma Ads in Newspapers killed Colton Berrett.

The Media killed Colton Berrett.

Political donations to campaigns from Vaccine Makers killed Colton Berrett.

Dorit Rubinstein Reiss killed Colton Berrett.

Paul Offit killed Colton Berrett.

Peter Hotez killed Colton Berrett.

Lee Harrison killed Colton Berrett.

Julie Gerberding killed Colton Berrett.

Thomas Frieden killed Colton Berrett.

State Senator Richard Pan killed Colton Berrett.

Coleen Boyle killed Colton Berrett.

Frank Destefano killed Colton Berrett.

Scientific Fraud killed Colton Berrett.

Medical Malfeasance killed Colton Berrett.

ACIP killed Colton Berrett.

CDC killed Colton Berrett.

Merck killed Colton Berrett.

Congress killed Colton Berrett.

The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986 killed Colton Berrett.

FASCISM killed Colton Berrett.

Because of course it did.

In the comments, it’s pointed out that the family’s contemporaneous accounts of Colton’s illness make no mention of vaccines:

We see this sort of thing so often, and it’s so depressing. Basically, it appears that the idea that Gardasil caused Colton’s problems, like the idea that vaccines cause a child’s autism, came later, as the parents looked for explanations and encountered the cranks. In fairness, it’s unclear who wrote the post above, and the parents might not have told others of their suspicions yet, but certainly it seems odd that there is no mention here.

Later in the thread, a scientist further explains why it’s incredibly unlikely that Gardasil caused Colton’s transverse myelitis:

Parts are worth citing in detail:

Based on the statement by Colton’s mother in a Vaxxed video, Colton first developed symptoms two weeks after the vaccination. Transverse myelitis is marked by an extremely fast, fulminant course. It is very surprising for it to arise two weeks after the alleged inciting event. We know a lot about TM from EAE, an experimental/research procedure in which autoimmune encephalitis/myelitis is induced by coupling a myelin protein, such as MOG, with a strong adjuvant – usually Complete Freund’s Adjuvant, sometimes even with the addition of pertussis toxin. Complete Freund’s Adjuvant is an extremely strong adjuvant, so strong that in fact it is often replaced with squalene or AlOH because it is so unpleasant to the animal itself (it’s never used in humans). It makes no logical sense for the HPV vaccine, which does not penetrate the blood/brain barrier, even in the presence of the AlOH adjuvant (like MOG, it’s too big – in EAE, pertussis toxin is used to allow penetration). It makes no sense for the original inflammatory insult and the onset of TM to take so long. And, finally, demyelinating events in HPV are incredibly rare

And:

Having had an encounter with TM before, I am personally deeply sorry for Colton and his family. At the same time, I can’t find much data that in any sense supports the claim that his illness was caused by the HPV vaccine. Personally, I’m also a little dubious as to the ethics of Vaxxed using this young man, who has clearly been through an extremely traumatic and life-changing experience that has deprived him of his very identity as, basically, a prop, with the parents’ agreement. There are repeated assertions that Colton wanted to make the statements that he did, but this is an ethically complex situation. Colton is in a profound sense dependent on his parents, so he might be susceptible to manipulation and coercion to say the message his mother and/or the Vaxxed activitsts want him to say. Whether this was indeed the case or not, the ethics of burdening a young man in his complex situation with the burden of activism and a very complex message that he himself might not have the qualifications to comprehensively understand (despite his subjective situation, being a bird does not make one an ornithologist and being an alleged vaccine victim does not make one fit to judge often complex scientific evidence proving vaccines are safe). Life is short, fragile and infinitely precious.

On those words, I come to the sad end of Colton’s tale. On January 5, Colton died:

If you watch this video, at around the 1:14 hr mark, a statement from Colton’s mother is read that reveals that Colton took his own life:

The story of Colton Berrett is one of the most tragic stories that I have ever encountered, and, remember, I have blogged about several of the children with incurable cancer treated by cancer quack Stanislaw Burzynski. A highly active and happy child, he was unfortunate enough to develop a horrific disease that robbed him of much of his ability to do what he loved the most and rendered him completely dependent upon others for many of his basic activities. He faced a lifetime ahead of him in which he was unlikely ever to get significantly better or recover much more function than he had already recovered. What makes the tragedy so much worse is how the antivacine vultures responsible for VAXXED have swarmed around the family since discovering his case, encouraging his mother to buy into the false notion that Gardasil injured her son to the point where he was so damaged that he took his own life and blaming Gardasil for his suffering and death. Their behavior, their exploitation of Colton and his family, is beyond despicable.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

392 replies on “Did Gardasil kill Colton Berrett? The answer is almost certainly no.”

You are a despicable human being. There is NO doubt that the Gardisil vaccine cause his illness and the weight of that over the course of the past 4 years caused his suicide. Get off your damn high horse and face some facts. Gardisil is maiming and killing our children every day.

How do you know Gardasil caused Colton’s illness? The evidence presented is weak, even for correlation, and is highly implausible based on what we know about transverse myelitis and the timing of its presentation after an inciting event. So, please, tell me: How do you know Gardasil caused his disease? Give me your best scientific argument. Who knows? I might be wrong.

This case is tragic in the extreme, and I can’t even imagine what the Colton and his went through and his family is still going through. However, my sympathy for the family does not blind me to how implausible the claim that Gardasil caused Colton’s illness is, nor should it. I am also disgusted at the eagerness of antivaxers to exploit Colton and his family to use him as an example of “Gardasil injury.”

There is NO doubt that the Gardisil vaccine cause his illness

Perhaps you missed this:

Acute Demyelinating Events Following Vaccines: A Case-Centered Analysis. Baxter R et al. Clinical Infectious Diseases. 2016 Dec 1;63(11):1456-1462.

“CONCLUSIONS: We found no association between [transverses myelitis] and prior immunization.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=27585798

Margaret, what evidence leads you to this conclusion outside of seeing his death “promoted” and used as propaganda on anti-vax websites?

If a pro-science website was posting about a child who died from Measles who got the disease from someone who was unvaccinated yet there was no evidence to show this, wouldn’t you accuse that website of exploiting the death for their agenda?

There is always doubt. The 2 questions that need answering are 1) how often does this happen following HPV vaccine and 2) how often does it happen with no HPV association? If those numbers are the same, then no, this was not due to the vaccine.

Get off your damn high horse and face some facts. Gardisil is maiming and killing our children every day.

“Mainimg”? I hate to imagine where this influx of semiliteracy is originating.

HPV shots do not need to be given to children or anyone at all.. how dare you attack this boy and what happened to him b/c you are a paid shill DORIT!!!! No he didn’t die the other day from the shot he took his own life AFTER the shot destroyed his quality of life where he then felt like a burden to his family.

For someone that claims to be so smart how are you even still holding a job?
Im to the point Dorit if I ever see you in person you better pray your legs work and you can run the other way.

Liars never get far and your time is up. YOU CAN’T SILENCE US ALL!!! Especially with your week ass blogs filled with lies.

No medicine NEEDS to be given to anyone, provided you don’t mind letting people die of their illness. Personally, I’m not a fan of that approach.

First, below is an insert from the above article. It states quite clearly that many would “think” ones opinion and research would be taken as an attack on the child and his family, but did their best not to atrack him at all but to provide the facts.

“One can even understand how the parents might come to blame Gardasil, even on the most tenuous of correlation. Discussing such stories requires care and tact, because inevitably any skeptical look at the narrative being promoted by the antivaccine movement will be portrayed as an attack on the dead child and his grieving family.”

Secondly, I have taken the HPV vaccine and so have many adults AND children around me (which is quite a lot). I live in STL by the way. None of them had anything happen to them, nor me. Where is the proof that the vaccine causes that kind of reaction anywhere else? I have heard so many “different” stories I want to know which ones are actually true. I have read multiple articles and notes about it and have found no links to this happening anywhere else. Most reactions from vaccines are the day you take them or up to 7 days later. But two weeks later and had no other reaction to the first two doses? I have had only one reaction taking a vaccine and that is slight chills and a dull headahe and that was within the week. It was mostly due to lack of sleep and a low imunsystem at that time before taking it. So, it is not even the vaccine’s fault, but mine for not taking care of myself. Please research, ask individuals that have taken the vaccine, and ask actual doctors (not just one but many of them) before you assume something is factual or not. Not everything you read on the internet and certain “official” wesites are true. Do your own research and find out for yourself.

Sharing ones opinion is allowed in this country. Thank you for letting me read yours and letting me to share mine. I know I do not know nearly enough about a lot of things, but that does not make any of what what is above untrue. I might get frustrated too, with what others say to me, but why lash out or threaten someone due to a difference in opinion/view? Not everything needs to be expressed with fighting words. Everyone has “their” own experience, opinions, and views. Please, get use to it. Not everyine is going to agree with what you say.

Also, it is “weak” not “week.”

There are also very few jurisdictions that require HPV vaccines in the U.S., so in the context of this post the comment is a little strange.

Apart from that, vaccination rates are very high in most of Israel without mandates. If they drop, especially if, as in Europe, we see outbreaks because of non-vaccinating, Israel can reconsider its policy, as several suffering European countries are.

The U.S. chose a policy that fits its circumstances, and to remind you, abundant evidence that shows that school immunization
requirements work well.

QUOTE: “Vaccinating your child is not required by law in Israel.”

It’s not “required by law” in the U.S., either. Could you provide a link to Israel’s vaccine schedule while you’re at it? My battery’s running low, and I’ve heard this dumbass routine too many times in any event.

There are no laws forcing vaccines on people in Israel.

There are no laws forcing vaccines on people in the US, either.

Orac, this is so full of bosch, I’m not sure where to begin. Penile and anal cancers have an incidence of 0.3 to 1 per 100,000 and 1.8 per 100,000 respectively. The average age of diagnosis of these two diseases is in the 60s. Five-year survival rates for both are above 77 percent and 85 percent respectively. This means that 13-year-old Colton was vaccinated with a drug containing immune-modulating and toxic aluminum for a disease which he more than likely would never have contracted but would have survived beyond 70 in the sad event he did.
You claim that it is impossible that a vaccine designed to profoundly impact the immune system could never account for a profoundly impacted immune system (that Colton’s immune-mediated disease was induced by ANYTHING except a powerful cocktail designed to modulate the immune system.) The ignorance of yourself and many of your fans here about how the immune system works, the time and mechanisms involved in manifestation of overt symptoms of autoimmune attack, the lag time between antibody production and recognizable symptoms, let alone diagnosis, is astonishing. I refer you all the medical textbook Vaccines and Autoimmunity(Wiley, 2015) which discusses these in depth. Your denial of the immune-mediated and vaccine-induced disorders from encephalopathy to narcolepsy, only belies that you have very truly closed minds and a faith-based adherence to pharmacy rather than medical disovery.
BTW, the 2012 study you cite is underwritten by Kaiser Permanente whose allegiances to for-profit companies is well-established, as is its ruthless fight against fair arbitration for injured patients ( From WIki: “In order to contain costs, Kaiser requires an agreement by planholders to submit patient malpractice claims to arbitration rather than litigating through the court system. This has triggered some opposition.Wilfredo Engalla is a notable case. In 1991, Engalla died of lung cancer nearly five months after submitting a written demand for arbitration. The California Supreme Court found[63] that Kaiser had a financial incentive to wait until after Engalla died; his spouse could recover $500,000 from Kaiser if the case was arbitrated while he was alive, but only $250,000 after he died. The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights contends that Kaiser continues to oppose HMO arbitration reform.”
As well, Kaiser is commonly the “third player” payer in payments from pharma to doctors (one example, here https://projects.propublica.org/d4d-archive/payments/checklist/12612139)
That is like relying on tobacco salesmen research into the safety of cigarettes which surely such intelligent scientists you and your fans style yourselves to be must see. You are no less than the chronies of Ignaz Semmelweiss who refused to see the iatrogenic damage of physicians while tens of thousands of women died. JLW left you off the list, but you too, have Colton’s blood on your hands, too.

It is you who is “full of bosch”.

…immune-modulating and toxic aluminum…

Aluminium is ubiquitous. Plants grown in soils containing feldspars contain aluminium. There is more aluminium in a banana than there is in the entire U.S. Vaccine schedule.

You claim that it is impossible that a vaccine designed to profoundly impact the immune system could never account for a profoundly impacted immune system (that Colton’s immune-mediated disease was induced by ANYTHING except a powerful cocktail designed to modulate the immune system.)

Where is your evidence that Colten’s Transverse Myelitis was caused by his immune system? Where is your evidence that the injection he received is responsible for triggering an immune reaction that induced his Transverse Myelitis?

BTW, the 2012 study you cite…

The study Orac cited is from 2016. If you can’t even get that right, I doubt your other comments as well.

JLW left you off the list, but you too, have Colton’s blood on your hands, too

Colton’s blood has been spread so widely and so thin that it is might as well be a homeopathic remedy.

I refer you all the medical textbook Vaccines and Autoimmunity(Wiley, 2015)

Shoenfeld et al., eds.

The California Supreme Court found[63]

Might want to put more effort into that copy-and-paste routine.

Prove it! And not with a random website of dubious quality.

The only acceptable form of evidence is are PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers who are not on the Dwoskin payroll.

Remember remarkable claims require remarkable evidence. Lazy forays into silly little websites that link to a biased website that just talks about legal rulings is not science. Get some real numbers, and compare it to the costs of cervical cancer and the other cancers caused by HPV virus. Now hop to it!

In the US alone, a child dies from the Gardasil vaccine every 15 days!

Dude, just because some Trumpling pulls some weird fact-free fantasy out of his colon, doesn’t mean you have to swallow it and forward it in an act of Human-Centipede cosplay.

The implicit calculation of of a case-fatality ratio seems to be a problem here, and I’m in no particular mood to do it for a drive-by.

Don’t forget that he escaped the tragedy of cervical cancer, thanks to the vaccine. Almost certainly.

Why has he been vaccinated? Yes, there is no evidence that his disease was due to Gardasil, but how can you be 100% sure it was not?

Danel, How can you be 100% sure it was not caused by the Freemasons? It’s almost as likely that they caused his disease!

At this point I have no doubt you have been made aware of the many reasons young man would be vaccinated against HPV. That you choose to ignore them or imply they don’t exist is quite telling.

really so how about a mother that watched his whole story? How about a mother that watches and helps 1000s of families DETOX AFTER THEY VACCINATE?? You guys are so full of shit. GUESS WHAT???? ANTI VAXER is just another name for people that followed the schedule and saw it kill their children. SO WHATS UP ORAC?? Ill meet you in person anywhere and settle this any time any place.

if he could be 100% sure Colton’s illness wasn’t caused by the phase of the moon

What’s the moon phase at the moment? Either that brought all the frothing loons out of the woodwortk, or it was your post.

really so how about a mother that watched his whole story? How about a mother that watches and helps 1000s of families DETOX AFTER THEY VACCINATE??

In some ways it is a pity that “Elizabeth O Vernon” has banned herself; otherwise she might be able to give some idea of whom in the name of Azathoth she is ranting about.

I am responding to both your original comment, and your response to Orac.
Boys are vaccinated against HPV because HPV can cause cancers in males. They can cause penile, anal, neck, throat, and oral, cancers among others.
1) You are pig ignorant.
2) As Orac says, you’re an arsehole. Here’s your theme song.

The cancers caused by HPV in males are rare and occur in old people. The benefits from HPV vaccine in males are not proven,

The vaccine is given before sexual activity because you need to get it before you get HPV and it’s more effective in the preteen group. The cancers take years to develop, but that’s not a reason not to prevent them.

The vaccine is not given to boys on a whim.

statistics on anal and penile cancer — 0.3 to 1.3 per 100,000. Age of diagnosis, mid 60s, late 60s. Five-year survival rate upon diagnosis: 77 percent and 85 percent. No way pharma can say this prevents anal and penile cancer in boys as young as nine — can’t say so for another five decades until they reach the age of diagnosis and can measure it. Until then, it’s a moneymaker. In the rare event Colton got penile cancer, he would likely have lived to see 70. He did not make 20.
You cannot simultaneously claim both that vaccines are powerfully immune-modulating drugs capable of fending off dangerous viruses and that they are incapable of altering the immune system in any potentially harmful way. The human immune system is very poorly understood. Vaccines were invented before we knew there was an immune system. Incredibly important players, just as dendritic cells , were only discovered post-1970. Continuous discovery shows the fallout of injecting things like toxic aluminum is far more complex than previously understood. There is nothing more opposed to scientific (and medical) discovery than a closed mind. And nothing more dangerous to patients.

We shouldn’t care about women getting cervical cancer from an infection that could be prevented by a vaccination?

Orac writes,

Did Gardasil kill Colton Berrett? The answer is almost certainly no.

MJD says,

Fortunately, the doctors reported Colton’s situation to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

Did Gardasil cause an autoimmune response in Colton Berrett?

Is the answer forthcoming?

This vaccine tug-of-war between Orac and VAXXED is spectacular and valuable.

The risk/benefit ratio of forced immunity may never allow a true winner in this tug of war.

One thing is certain, Colton was concerned about the safety of others when he received the HPV vaccine.

RIP Colton Berrett.

Actually, I looked for Colton’s report on VAERS but couldn’t find it. The only reason I didn’t mention my search on my post was that I didn’t have enough time last night to do a thorough enough search for me to be satisfied I didn’t miss it. I can tell you, however, that I could find no report in the 2014 VAERS data that looked like it was for Colton. Certainly there were no reports of transverse myelitis in 2014 that I could find, which makes me wonder if the report to VAERS was made much later. Again, it’s possible I missed it, but now that you mentioned it I think I’ll go back and do a deeper, more thorough search later.

Why, yes, you seem to be correct. I’m not sure why my initial search didn’t turn this up. Very puzzling. I notice that it was reported two months after he was admitted to the hospital.

Some of the anti-Gardasil people commenting here (MJD primarily) are doing so simply to give the false impression that they care about people. They’re willing to lie about vaccination harm in general, Gardasil in particular, not because they understand the issues but to improve their image among other people opposed to good medical care.

But I wonder how many of the other people posting, the genuinely angry people. There is strong opposition to Gardasil in my region of Michigan, with its strong Christian Reformed population, for religious reasons. You have to wonder if much of the other opposition here has its roots in religion rather than the usual anti-vaccination lunacy.

THere is a large body of evidence describing acute demyelinating events following vaccination. Here is one review.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18976924
Excerpt:
Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) is an inflammatory demyelinating disease of the central nervous system that is usually considered a monophasic disease. ADEM forms one of several categories of primary inflammatory demyelinating disorders of the central nervous system including multiple sclerosis, optic neuropathy, acute transverse myelitis, and neuromyelitis optica (Devic’s disease). Post-infectious and post-immunisation encephalomyelitis make up about three-quarters of cases, where the timing of a febrile event is associated with the onset of neurological disease. Post-vaccination ADEM has been associated with several vaccines such as rabies, diphtheria-tetanus-polio, smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, Japanese B encephalitis, pertussis, influenza, hepatitis B, and the Hog vaccine. We review ADEM with particular emphasis on vaccination as the precipitating factor. We performed a literature search using Medline (1976-2007) with search terms including “ADEM”, “acute disseminated encephalomyelitis”, “encephalomyelitis”, “vaccination”, and “immunisation”. A patient presenting with bilateral optic neuropathies within 3 weeks of “inactivated” influenza vaccination followed by delayed onset of ADEM 3 months post-vaccination is described.

PMID: 18976924 DOI: 10.1016/j.jocn.2008.05.002

There is large evidence that many autoimmune diseases can be triggered by crossreaction during the immune response triggered by an antigen.

Citation needed. And no, Wikipedia is not good enough, because:

Rarely, transverse myelitis has been reported to develop several days to a few months after vaccination. Between 1970 and 2009 there were 37 reported cases worldwide of transverse myelitis developing soon after vaccination (e.g. against hepatitis B, measles-mumps-rubella, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and others).[10]

When I looked at Citation 10, Yehuda Shoenfeld was an author.

@ Dorit
The age of head and neck cancers in men is around 60. Who can decide that cancer treatment would be inefficient in 45 years? How can you be sure of the absence of risk from the vaccine, if the individual risk is less than 1 per 100,000?

You seem to admit without demonstration that vaccination woud have a large effect on cancer incidence in males. There are already some indications that, in women, the effect on cervical cancer is not as important as expected.

So by your logic, it’s OK to leave people unvaccinated if it’s a disease of the old? Really? Glad your valuation of human life is age dependent

By the way, I’ve got a cousin first diagnosed in his 40s dying of it right now, and current treatment has robbed him of his voice and ability to taste and enjoy food (one of the basic human pleasures). Neither he nor his young children have got 45 years to wait for your “efficient treatment” and it would have been a damn sight better to have prevented it in the first place.

Just FYI, I am a medical professional and my sons were vaccinated the second they could be. Because the actual science based evidence says it was a damned sight safer than not doing so, whatever your Google degree might indicate.

My younger son was also vaccinated. Since he was in college he got himself to the family clinic. In a recent holiday dinner his new wife explained that her stepmother got her the HPV vaccine. So all is good.

Curious…have you seen Colton’s medical records? Have you personally evaluated Colton? No?

Hmmm…pretty remarkable that you are able to come to such a definitive conclusion with little evidence but your faith. I thought that was how Anti-vaxxers did science…

The accounts of the mother and the narrative being promoted by the VAXXED crew are enough, coupled with what we know about transverse myelitis and is lack of correlation with vaccination in a very large study, to conclude that it us highly unlikely that Gardasil caused Colton’s illness. If information that makes Colton’s story more compelling evidence of causation exists, antivaxers have not presented it, which strongly suggests that such evidence does not exist.

Again…have you seen his medical records? Observed him yourself?

You claim that evidence from anti-vaxxers is weak, yet present evidence that is just as weak.

Quack quack, Dave…

The only evidence tendered by the antivax narrative is a correlative one – he was vaccinated 2 weeks prior to onset of the illness. Scientists don’t jump to conclusions purely on the basis of post hoc fallacies; but antivaxers do.
There are numerous possible aetiologies for TM in this case. Why on earth would anyone jump to the conclusion that a highly implausible one, which has not been described previously, must be the cause?
Perhaps, since you seem to be one of these people, you might tell us.

Perhaps you are reading a different comment from mine; I’ve made no correlation. I merely pointed out Dave’s hypocrisy (and indeed the hypocrisy of his sycophants) of making such a definitive claim without reviewing all the evidence.

If Dave (or indeed any of his fart sniffers who infest this site) had reviewed Colton’s medical records or personally observed Colton, then Dave would have a point. He didn’t. So, making such a definitive claim (that Colton most likely was not injured by the vaccine) is both presumptuous and hypocritical (because it is pseudo-scientific, and since this site mocks “pseudo-science,” it is therefore duplicitous). Even further, it’s in extremely poor taste.

But, perhaps that is too difficult of a concept for you pseudo-skeptics to comprehend. Not surprising, really.

If [Orac]…had reviewed Colton’s medical records or personally observed Colton, then [he] would have a point. He didn’t.

A few quick questions: did any of the antivaccine ranters who insist that Gardasil induced Colton’s Transverse Myelitis review his medical records or medically examine him? And if so, are they qualified to do so? If not, and I suspect that none of them did or do, then Orac DOES have a point, despite your obnoxious personal insults.

Actually, no…he doesn’t.

Do try to stay on topic. I wasn’t talking about anti-vaccine ranters; I was talking about Dave’s pseudo-scientific claim that the vaccine was not responsible for Colton’s condition when he hasn’t reviewed all of the evidence. And here he is, mocking pseudo-science…

Indeed, this is apparently too complicated for you pseudo-skeptics…

Actually, no…he doesn’t.

Actually, yes he does. There is good evidence pointing away from vaccination (the TM happening two weeks after vaccination). So unless the ranters have reviewed his records and have the training to correctly interpret things, their claims that vaccines are responsible and your comment that they might be responsible are possible but unlikely.

Wow…just wow.

Ok…I can admit when I’m wrong; you guys are way bigger idiots than I gave you credit for! And believe me, I set the bar to be pretty low for your stupidity.

Is that really your argument? That because Anti-vaxxers are doing it, it’s ok for David to? That is why you keep bringing them up, yes? Especially when I’ve made it clear that I’m discussing Dave’s behavior, not theirs.

David is presenting speculation as fact, something he mocks anti-vaxxers for. But when he does it, it’s Science! right? Not only that, but he has the audacity to complain about how the family of Colton is being exploited when he’s doing the exact same thing.

I must say, I should be absolutely in awe watching this black hole of stupidity, arrogance, hypocrisy, and Dunning-Kruger that you pseudo-skeptic sycophants are demonstrating…if I wasn’t so busy laughing at you.

“There is good evidence pointing away from vaccination (the TM happening two weeks after vaccination).”

What’s the time frame here? Is it two hours, two days?

Is that really your argument? That because Anti-vaxxers are doing it, it’s ok for David to?

No. Firstly, Orac pointed out that there were big holes in the antivaxxers arguments. It’s that because the antivaxxers have a weak case AND there is good reason to doubt their insinuations.

And yet, he continues to present speculation as fact…something he accuses the anti-vaxxers of doing.

“Hmmm…pretty remarkable that you are able to come to such a definitive conclusion with little evidence but your faith. I thought that was how Anti-vaxxers did science…”

Have you ever heard the principle, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

The VAXXED crew is the one that is making the extraordinary claim, that Colton’s transverse myelitis IS almost certainly caused by vaccines he received two weeks earlier, despite that scenario being extremely unlikely given all we know of transverse myelitis. THEY are the ones who need the extraordinary evidence. So you are actually PARTIALLY right; making hugely unlikely claims without the evidence needed to back them IS how anti-vaxxers try to “do science”. Orac doesn’t need to have personally evaluated Colton to reach his conclusion — that the extraordinary evidence the antivaxers need is completely absent.

Very well then, what are your qualifications? What papers have you written on the subject? If you are going to attack me for not having written on immunology I have the right to challenge you on the same grounds.

Dorit is such a disgusting human being. From openly supporting the idea of forced vaccination as I saw in a panel discussion she did, and now trying to push blame of fear mongering onto the Vaxxed movement. Seriously?? Why is it that people will blame EVERYTHING in the world but NEVER the vaccines! You’d be more likely to hear a doctor or a shill like Dorit blame wearing the color blue or that the wind was blowing southeast that day than to hear them blame vaccines. Makes NO sense!! Too many kids and teens and hell, adults too for that matter are being injured or killed by vaccines. How do you sleep at night Dorit??!! Oh wait, you probably sleep fine with your money made from supporting Pharma and from the fatigue from all those vaccines you’ve had to be up to date. Cause I’m sure with you speaking so strongly about being current on vaccines, you’ve obviously gotten boosters for all the ones that are new, right?!

Laura, your ugly & mean-spirited personal attacks notwithstanding, what evidence do you have to offer that his condition was vaccine related?

Can you name another SINGLE case report of isolated TM post Gardasil?

Can you name a single medically confirmed death from a vaccine since you claim vaccines “kill?”

Or are you just here to bully someone and make your site look worse than it already does?

Dorit is such a disgusting human being.

The most disgusting form of life that ever slithered out of the primordial ooze are disease-promoting anti-vaxxers like you.

There is no evidence at all that vaccines injure or kill children. There are only unwarranted assertions coming from antivaccine activists, who think that their fear mongering somehow becomes the gospel truth if it’s repeated often and loud enough.

Why is it that people will blame EVERYTHING in the world but NEVER the vaccines!

You are not telling the truth. Vaccines are rightfully blamed if and when they are the cause of harm, even when this could have been easily kept silent. Some examples that come to mind:
– 1993, Japan: use of the Urabe virus strain in a mumps vaccine causes aseptic encephalitis in several thousand children, with 3 fatalities(*).
– 2009: one particular H1N1 vaccine is found to increase the chance of developing narcolepsy in genetically susceptible people(**). In all, several hundred cases of narcolepsy are linked to H1N1 vaccination, on a total of hundreds of millions of vaccines administered. If there really is a sort of pro-vaccine conspiracy to keep adverse reactions hushed up, then pleas explain why this was made public — after all, nobody would have noticed these small numbers if it were kept silent.
– 2017, Philippines: a new dengue virus vaccine is found to make a subsequent dengue infection much worse if the vaccinated person was never infected with dengue before.
And there are quite a few more examples which weren’t so widely publicized, such as the time that three babies here in the Netherlands died within two weeks after receiving their DTaP shots from the same production batch. Vaccinations were immediately halted, a press release was issued, and an independent investigation started right away. It soon proved to be a coincidence, with all babies having a clearly not vaccine-related cause of death. So health officials are absolutely willing to suspect vaccines in the case of health problems.

*: Due to lax handling of the situation by Japanese authorities, widespread panic ensued, and MMR vaccination rates plummeted to near-zero, resulting in huge measles epidemics, claiming the lives of dozens of children each year. Also, Japanese health statistics only showed a sudden deterioration in children’s health from 1993 onwards, no improvement. This means that not vaccinating is bad for public health.
**: It turned out that a virus protein was ultimately responsible for this adverse reaction; this protein was also present in the vaccine.

The argument of the pro-vaccine conspiracy is a tricky one: if there is no reported side effects in the scientific literature, doesn’t it mean that the conspiracy is at work? And if there are reported side effects, couldn’t it be that the conspiracy has failed?

@Daniel Corcos
[… conspiracy …]
I find it rather curious that the antivaccine crowd keeps believing in such a conspiracy, because as a very conservative estimate, at least a hundred thousand scientists, doctors and government officials in countries all over the world would have to be in on it, without even a single one of them blowing the whistle, ever. Also, it would take a huge effort to synchronize all their allegedly faked research results so well — because all those researchers in all those countries come up with almost identical numbers and types of side effects for identical vaccines. There appears to be not one rogue country with vastly different side effects.
And then what could motivate so many people to hush up completely for decades on end? Worldwide annual turnover of vaccines amounts to some $25bn in all, with estimated profits of less than $10bn. This leaves $1bn at the very most to divvy up among all those 100,000 conspirators, so $10,000 per conspirator per year. This is peanuts compared to what these people already make professionally, and certainly not enough for all those people to willingly keep on hurting children, year after year.
Then again, perhaps those antivaccine people would be willing to torture children for this kind of pay, so they think the same of other people…

I see James Lyons-Weiler has gone completely off the deep end in his screed charging that everyone having things good to say about vaccination “killed Colton Berrett”.

If he had any remaining shreds of credibility as a “scientist”, he’s now burned them up entirely.

James Lyons Weiler used to comment at RI a few years ago. Since then, I have seen him comment and have his writing posted at Age of Autism. Next week, he will be part of an esteemed coterie of vaccine injury “experts”- a new voice they say- on Gary Null’s webinar, Deadly Deception ( available at his websites, Gary Null.com and prn.fm for 25 USD **)

That’s quite a career path- trolls take notice!

Unfortunately, we can also observe how irresponsible accusations like JLW’s can inspire the faithful to go onto public websites and openly threaten professors and doctors purely on his words/

** I suppose it’s cheaper and easier to do webinars than run around filming and paying editors etc.

@ Smut Clyde:

Seriously, Mr: I just learned that the these “experts” and their head ( case) will have the assistance of .
…….drumroll……..ANONYMOUS
in spreading the word to MILLIONS of activists and retaliating against Vaccine Pushers GLOBALLY
starting with the webinar.
Now if only they could acquire Mr Robot.

I am amazed that these guys think insults are a valid substitute for evidence. Especially after I have to explain to them multiple times that Youtube videos of Suzanne Humphries, Sherri Tenpenny, etc are not valid scientific evidence.

And exactly what proof are you providing to show your side? This is what angers me about provaxers. You automatically think we should have to provide you with the research that you should be looking up for yourself. Do an internet search about the Gardasil vaccine being fast tracked. Look into the cases of seizures and paralysis due to the shot. It is not a coincidence that millions of children are coming down with various disorders and death immediately or shortly after vaccines. Dorit IS a disgusting human for the mere fact that she thinks it’s ok to force vaccinate a child. It is NO ONES RIGHT to touch someone’s child.

Laura: “Look into the cases of seizures and paralysis due to the shot.”

Citation needed.

“It is not a coincidence that millions of children are coming down with various disorders and death immediately or shortly after vaccines.”

Citation needed. Both citations need to be PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers.

Also please tell us how their claim with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is going.

@Laura

And exactly what proof are you providing to show your side?

Numerous studies that could find
– no link between the HPV vaccine and any disorders
– no increase in said disorders
– no plausible mechanism to link the HPV vaccine to those disorders
– no difference in health between HPV-vaccinated and HPV-vaccinated children

What researchers did find, was that mainstream media coverage of antivaccine stories is immediately followed by a surge in reported adverse events and stories on social media. As can be expected, these reports and stories then gradually become less frequent again. After a year or so without media attention, the number of adverse events approaches that of other vaccinations, showing that it is simply mass hysteria, not based on any real events. When correcting for media coverage, the HPV vaccine even appears to have less reported side effects compared to other childhood vaccines.
This is clearly visible in the VAERS database equivalents in several countries. I recall that one particular documentary was aired in several countries, but several months apart. And yes, every time in each of those countries, adverse event reports spiked right after the broadcast, to fall off again in the months thereafter.

Yes, of course numerous children come down with something or other shortly after being vaccinated; it would be very surprising if this didn’t happen. Here’s why: If annually 0.1% of children (so 1 in 1000) of a particular age develops some bad disorder, and you vaccinate one million children that age, this means that a thousand of those children will get that disorder, and that literally dozens of those children will have received their vaccination shortly before — all without there being any causal connection whatsoever. The problem is of course that those children and/or their parents feel quite certain that there is a connection; this is quite human. And that is why we have things such as science and statistics.

lynettemarie, did you bother to check who was the author of the friggin’ blog post?

Anti-vaxxers and their complete lack of reading comprehension.

The age of head and neck cancers in men is around 60. Who can decide that cancer treatment would be inefficient in 45 years? How can you be sure of the absence of risk from the vaccine, if the individual risk is less than 1 per 100,000?

Bullshit. First, the average age of head and neck cancers includes those that are unrelated to HPV, such as in smokers. They tend to be older than those with HPV related cancers. Anyway, why are you so cavalier about older men? I’m approaching 70, and I think I have a few more years of useful life to go.
You also seem to forget that vaccinating boys will help prevent the spread of HPV to others, male and female.
I’m touched that you have such faith that head and neck cancers will be treated more “efficiently”. Yeah, and I’m still waiting for that flying car I was promised in my youth.
The one prediction you can make about the future is that you can’t predict the future.
No one is claiming an “absence of risk”. Tracking millions of doses has not shown any relationship with neurologic illness or death. There is, however, a small risk of minor reactions. The chance of a serious (life threatening or disabling) reaction is near zero.

I don’t want to be cavalier with older men, I just mean that if you are vaccinated when you are 15, you might expect that cancer will not be a severe disease in 55 years, when you are 70.
Concerning the risk, you are confusing the fact that it is impossible to show a relationship with vaccination when the risk of the disease is low as compared to its underlying incidence, and the fact that the risk does not exist, which is not the same.

@ Dorit
Because neither in situ nor invasive cancer incidence decreased in women aged 20 to 24 after a large vaccination program was implemented in the UK.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/statistics-by-cancer-type/cervical-cancer/incidence#heading-Two
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/statistics-by-cancer-type/cervical-cancer/incidence-in-situ#heading-Two
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccines#United_Kingdom
I admit that it is a little bit early, but one would have expected protection for a large percentage of the women aged 20 and 21.

In the UK, vaccination has been performed on girls aged 17 and 18 in 2009 and 2010. Therefore, in women aged 20 and 21, there should be a decrease or either in situ or invasive cancer, which is not observed. Improved screening should lead to a decrease in invasive cancer. We don’t see the expected decline in cancer when a very large population is studied. The numbers in your reference are of borderline significance (0 vs. 5 expected cases in 9,529 women), as it is not clear why Finland has been selected.

I admit that it is a little bit early, but one would have expected protection for a large percentage of the women aged 20 and 21.

And you’re simultaneously complaining that the (median) age of diagnosis for men is “around 60”?

You miss the point. I am trying to evaluate the efficiency of the vaccine in women. The estimate of the protection rate can be done on the 20-24 age group. From this, you can make an estimate for women around 30, where the incidence is much higher. Unfortunately, for men, you don’t have the possibility to make an early estimate, but you know that the stronger protective effect should be around 60.

You miss the point. I am trying to evaluate the efficiency of the vaccine in women.

Using a different yardstick (the median age) than you did when dismissing the vaccine’s effect in men.

Cursed be you liars and evildoers, profit makers. Cursed be your money, may you never enjoy it! You liars…what have you done to millions of people, and us medical workers too..we are all infected with retroviruse and we have huge incidence of cancer. What fool trusts your lies? Your liars scientists be cursed too! Whatever you have let it be cursed except your children…I am sorry for them…They have scumbags for parents.

You liars…what have you done to millions of people, and us medical workers too..we are all infected with retroviruse [sic]

Which ones? You don’t have many choices, unless you’re hopelessly confused about the meaning of the word “endogenous.”

I really hope you are not a medical worker, Jelica. You make the rest of us, who work hard and really care about our patients, our families,and our community look bad. Signed, Dawn, RN, MSN

Do you have anything at all but emotional invective? Sounds like they hold seances in whatever internet silo you stumbled out of. Lest you need to be told, literally cursing someone works about as well as astrology. Still, one has to ask, do you actually want to go back to a world where witch-burnings are acceptable justice?

I am reminded of a scene in an episode of Campion (Dr. Who V/Dangerous Davies/Tristan Farnon as Albert Campion) where the local witch curses Campion.

Not long ago I saw an ad for someone who’s specialty is removing curses of assorted types. I guess I should have clipped the ad when I had the chance.

I am reminded of a scene in an episode of Campion (Dr. Who V/Dangerous Davies/Tristan Farnon as Albert Campion)

I’m sorry, despite the presence of Peter Davison, the ITV series of “The Last Detective” as Davies was complete pants. It was a travesty of the 1981 TV movie, and of course of the novels themselves.

what have you done to millions of people

Umm, don’t look in my basment! There is nothing under the concrete!

This is really depressing. It’s like “two weeks after the witch looked at him, he became seriously ill.” There couldn’t be any other possible reason, because witches are the most horrible thing. Ever.

It’s the height of arrogance, and you can’t argue with these people without sounding like you’re callous. I feel so bad for his family, just having to listen to people defending vaccines against these self-assured non-experts, let alone having to listen to the disgusting lies being thrown around about the poor child.

All I can say is that if you’re going to shout about it on this blog, you better have your statistics armed and ready.

Absolutely amazing that this would be posted right after his death. Suicide or not the CONFIRMED vaccine injury of TM from the HPV destroyed this young mans life. He was dying from onset. DO you have any idea what an injury of this magnitude does to someones mind? LET ALONE THE MIND OF A CHILD?? Very little is known about TM. One thing that is known is that it CAN and IS in some cases brought on by severe reactions to vaccine. My daughter was diagnosed at almost 10 months old with ADEM and Transverse Myelitis with total permanent paralysis after a severe adverse reaction to the Hep B and DTaP vaccines. Proven and confirmed by a host of doctors and in court. Our court case was conceded, and if you don’t know what conceded means , It means without a doubt her injuries were caused by the vaccines she received in June 2003. These reactions are listed as possible side effects on these vaccines yet when it happens even those of you who keep screaming science call it a lie. Why did the SCIENTISTS list them as reactions if it is not so? The timing of this blog is horrible to say the least. Let this family mourn the loss of their child that was taken the day the HPV vaccine stole his life!

Suicide or not the CONFIRMED vaccine injury of TM from the HPV destroyed this young mans life.

Except, of course, that it didn’t. Read the damned article.

“the CONFIRMED vaccine injury of TM from the HPV (vaccine?) destroyed this young mans (sic) life.” Where is the evidence that it was confirmed?

“Very little is known about TM.” Funny, I found dozens of papers on the matter, and I talked to a neurologist about it as well. Very little is know about it by you, apparently.

“Our court case was conceded, and if you don’t know what conceded means , It means without a doubt her injuries were caused by the vaccines she received in June 2003.” So you won’t mind sharing with us the court records? You know, just in case we need evidence and such.

“Let this family mourn the loss of their child that was taken the day the HPV vaccine stole his life!” But the blog posts by antivaxxers, let those be posted all over, loud and proud. (I’d like to see where you complain on those posts about their timing.)

I’m extremely troubled by the language that TM ended the boy’s life. TM is not a death sentence, while it is certainly horribly hard for someone to deal with being disabled, the message that disabled life is not worth living is both an untrue one and a very dangerous one to send to others living with a disability.

Absolutely amazing that this would be posted right after his death.

As compared with the much more prompt antivaccine handjob exchange?

Let this family mourn the loss of their child that was taken the day the HPV vaccine stole his life!

I trust you are chastising the vultures like Polly Tommey and Del BigTree for rushing to the Coltons’ side to convince them that the HPV vaccine was responsible for their child’s death?

“Our court case was conceded, and if you don’t know what conceded means , It means without a doubt her injuries were caused by the vaccines she received in June 2003.”

Not really, they are very lenient on evidence in Vaccine Court. And for some reason I can’t find them on the US Court website. So if you are really sure about that you would link to that ruling.

Tonya Ankeny asked:

Why did the SCIENTISTS list them as reactions if it is not so?

Well, there’s an answer for your question. As a SCIENTIST who has written package inserts, I can tell you that I included information on adverse events that were reported in post-marketing surveillance because it was a responsible action and because FDA requires that responsible action–even when such adverse events may not have been caused by the medication. For example, You should note the boilerplate language regarding adverse events like transverse myelitis that are reported in post-marketing surveillance that Recombivax Hep B vaccine package insert notes that “it is not possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to a vaccine exposure.”

See, there’s a difference between something that has been reported to have occured after vaccination and something that was clearly caused by vaccination.

Absolutely amazing that this would be posted right after his death.

The Antivax Twitter Army* have been gloating over young Berrett’s case for the last week or so, ever since his death, retweeting the VAXXED photo to Dorit over and over, with thoughtful messages about “This is what your Gardasil does” and “we want this to be what you see whenever your eyes are closed”. They think his death is their personal property.

That may be why they are waxing so indignant over Orac’s current callous exploitation of the image.

I am impressed how many of them have adopted nyms like “VaccineWarrior” and “WarriorMom”. I think they wear camo pyjamas to bed. These are serious people.

So you won’t mind sharing with us the court records?

The docket is here, but I have to renew my PACER account to see what’s accessible (probably only the final documents, of course).

I have PACER. Unfortunately, the Court of Federal Claims does not provide access to full text of filed documents, so there’s nothing more to see there.

According to the account, Colton had to be intubated, and you can see that he still has a tracheostomy tube and is using a portable ventilator, which he and his parents call his “ball and chain.”

This is stomach-churning.

The poor bloke had to put up both with his physical disabilities and also his parents’ attitude to the device which was keeping him alive. Have his parents given any thought as to how this might have contributed towards his suicide? I really hope this is just a quote taken out of context. Then again, their associated anti-vax claims don’t indicate much awareness of context.

@ Richard
As you have said, it is impossible to have 100,000 conspirators. However, you should know that the scientific literature rests on a limited numbers of experts, many of them with conflict of interest, who are also those who make the decision to accept the manuscripts. Studies are financed by the industry, so the main experts in a field (those who publish the most) are those who get money from it. Therefore, a strong bias in the literature does not require a conspiracy.

(to the OP, this is a rather long comment and if you prefer I can resend it to you broken up into parts. Should you decide to post it you have my sincere thanks. If not I hope that you will at least read it in its entirety.)

To the OP and Reader,

From the Anti Vaccination side, it appears quite the opposite. The star story appears to be one of what happens to a newspaper when they question vaccines, and the consequences they recieve. It is not a new phenomena. It was reported by Morris Beale, author of “The Drug Story,” as far back as the 1940’s:
“But according to Bealle’s own story, one day the paper took up the cudgels for some of its readers that were being given poor service from the power company, and Morris Bealle received the dressing down of his life from the advertising agency which handled the power company’s account. They told him that any more such “stepping out of line” would result in the immediate cancellation not only of the advertising contract, but also of the gas company and the telephone company.” (The Truth about the Rockefeller Empire, The Drug Story, by Hans Reusch, retrieved from whale to 01/17/2017)
(I have read the Drug Story and can attest that he indeed told that story).
Likewise, it seems pretty dispicable to suggest or imply that Colton’s parents coerced him into giving his testimony or saying what he did. In fact, why stop there if that is the direction you are going to go in? Maybe it wasn’t Colton who felt himself a burden to his family….and maybe now you can see just how egregious that line of reasoning is.
From my perspective, in regards to another commenter who asked who in holy azathoth the lady was talking about when she talked about the hundreds of thousands of families, I can tell you I have multiple friends, online and IRL, whose children are either suffering, or who have lost children to diseases they attribute, and rightly so, to the vaccines they were given. This is leaving out those others I have met or talked to who believe they themselves were damaged.
And that’s the thing isn’t it, in regards to the OP’s comment that tact is needed in cases like this. You can’t say that on the one hand, and then call everyone in the Anti Vaxxed movement the names you are calling them, because for so many of them, for so many of us, we know and have seen in one way or the other, vaccine damage first hand, and that is why we are here fighting (with words, I would never inflict or want to violence on you, since hatred however well intentioned only leads to more hatred). But that premise also likely explains why there is such poor communication between the two movements, of the valiant defenders of vaccination and the brave insurgency. Each side mocks and ridicules the other, and when no resolution happens in cases like these I believe that as L. Ron Hubbard taught, there is a third party involved spreading misinformation.
I don’t believe you are a paid shill, because I have no way of knowing this. I neither believe that the VAXXED team is purposefully lying, if indeed they are lying at all. I think that what this comes down to is the fundamental premises that one uses in interpreting evidence.
From the anti vaxxed perspective, from the Anti Vaccination Perspective, in the face of the peer reviewed evidence you and Dr. Gorski are citing, and the lack of connection you are seeing, lies our own personal experiences, our own personal hells, and our knowledge of just how much money and pressure for results there is in the world of peer review and in the journals. Of just how much influence the Rockefeller Drug Ideology has on the medical schools, and with the knowledge of the work conducted by scientists such as Dr. Antoine Bechamp, Dr. Creighton, Dr. Graham Tilden, Royal Rife, Dr. Herbert Sheldon, Dr. Frederick Klenner, Dr. Bernice Eddy, Dr. Eleanor Mcbean, Dr. Abram Hoffer, Dr. Wilhelm Reich and Dr. Joel Wallach, of just how far off the track “science” has gone and just how long it has been off that tract. And there were many before even Bechamp though we do not know their names.
This knowledge leads to premises of the interpretation of evidence which are very different from your own and which lead to beliefs which seem as puerile and absurd to you as your own do to us, and that is putting it nicely.
So as I sit here watching the debate go on from my own computer, I can’t help but think that if there was a force in this universe, within or without, which wanted to see the destruction of humanity come to fruition, this is what it would want. Two sides unwilling to engage with each other, bull headed and completely convinced of the wrongness of the other-side, determined that for the other side to exist means the unnecessary deaths of innocent people and other creatures, going at it. Unwilling to sit at the table and talk and try to understand each other, each viewing the other side as at best useful dupes and at worst something on the order of distorted monsters.
But maybe there is a time when words will no longer suffice, when the force of law and the gun of the policeman will shove everyone to one side or the other. Right now, the pro-vaccine side is dominant. It is a sweltering behemoth, steamrolling anyone who disagrees. Your ideology is in power, OP. How will you use it? Will you remember that so many of us live a personal hell day in and day out, a hell we attribute based on our personal and collective experience, in no small part to the vaccines you champion? Will you outlaw and deny us even treating ourselves and our children who have been placed under our care with the best medicines we know of, even if you believe they are Quackery? Will you come and sit at the table and hear our stories and not assume that the people who produce them are monsters simply because they show to the world what they sincerely believe to be true? What happens is as much your choice as it is ours. Whether peace and reason prevail and whether innocence suffer is as much in your hands as it is our own, if indeed it be in anyone’s hands and if we are all not as Poe described, the playthings of indifferent forces.
I have hope that a better outcome can happen than the one I am seeing, and though you crush it I extend my pand (sic) to you and hope you will take it and just for a moment, consider things from our perspective.
I will gladly walk with you in this if you will let me.
Sincerely and Ever Truly,
Parallax) +
Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

“(The Truth about the Rockefeller Empire, The Drug Story, by Hans Reusch, retrieved from whale to 01/17/2017)”

Scopie’s Law: “In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately… and gets you laughed out of the room.”

Fist, I thank you for allowing the comment to stand.

Second, I would rather be laughed out of the room and be on the side of truth, than be applauded and be om the side of error.

Third, The law you cited is literally a logical fallacy being an attack on the source instead of what the spurce had to say.

It is a double fallacy, as The editor of whale to did not write the article I posted, but was rather simply the hosting website, as whale is mostly an aggrgator of articles on multiple government topics. The article can be found at multiple ogher locations, as a simple google search will show. I simply posted the source in the interest of honesty. If I wanted to hide it I could have easily posted another website as the link. There are at least 2 to choose from.

Finally, the law you cited is immature and unworthy of someone such as yourself, considering the well written article I just read by you.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Conspiracy theories are seldom based on science. You included this list of “scientists”:

Dr. Antoine Bechamp, Dr. Creighton, Dr. Graham Tilden, Royal Rife, Dr. Herbert Sheldon, Dr. Frederick Klenner, Dr. Bernice Eddy, Dr. Eleanor Mcbean, Dr. Abram Hoffer, Dr. Wilhelm Reich and Dr. Joel Wallach,

First of that is quite random, several have been mentioned on this blog.

For instance, Royal Rife was not a doctor, he was a crank inventor.

Eleanor McBean was also not a doctor, but just a anti-vax crank.

It indicates you do not have a clue on the actual substance of Orac’s article. In fact, you are a very gullible person. Just stay away John Scudamore’s list of ancient writings, conspiracy theories and craft projects for special magical copper poles to protect your bum from ley lines.

Dear Chris,

I was attempting to include a historical list of doctors who cause me to question putting trust in the current medical system. Of them, Professor Bechamp is the most important because of his work on the true nature of microorganosms which was plageurized by Professor Pastuer, and the rest are in order of history, as memory serves. I wanted the OP to see that there is a lot list of Doctors and Dr. Bechamp wasent the only one to cause me and others to question. Can you link to the article on Rife and Dr. Mcbean? My research ondicates a completely different picture than the one you presented. Rife definitely wasent a crank from my perspectove and his critocs refused to engage in his work or look through his microscope similar to how the priests refused to look through Galileo’s telescope.

My boyfriend has my bum covered thank you very much. :3 But I do wear orgonite and keep a tower buster in the house since I have wifi.

Ive talked to Mr. Scudamore on some of the issues we disagree on such as his clarsification of all gay people as angry and having an agenda. He seemed amiable enough, even though he knew my mate was a guy. shrugs I like him. I just don’t agree with all of his views, and I think some of them are in need of revision. Whose aren’t?

In any case, thank you for your comment. I love you as I love all beings.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Dear Chris,

So I read the article you suggested, from Wikipedia. It seems like, at worst, based solely on that article, Rife was an intrepid and intelligent inventor who perhaps, was mistaken about the nature and results of his invention.

I would counter suggest that you go to the following:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003N2QCUO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Use the “Look Inside,” feature, and read the Esitors Preface and the author’s preface.

Sincerely and Eger Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Dear Chris,

I will read the aritcle and get back to you.

But before I do I have a request. Please Consider friending me on FB. I have only one other real skeptical friend, David Babushkin, and he does not have time to go through this information with me or even show me links such as this. I say to you therefore, WOW. That you know about Bechamp is amazing. Much respect from me to you. I dont know of any other skeptics who know about them (I mean I dont know them personally, though I know that they exist). I really dont want this to be our only conversation. I need someone like you to discuss thede things with if I were to change my views (or change your views…you never know…

“they say the owl was a Baker’s daughter. O Lord, we know what we are but we do not know what we may become.” -Hamlet, by Shakespeare, from memory.

If not it is otay. I just wanted to ask.

Also I mentioned and linked to the book about Bechamp because it mentions Royal Rife (and another scientist) and how his (and their) discoveries confirm Bechamp even though the two didnt know about each other (independent confirmation is very important in the scientific method as you well know).

I also read the article on McBean, and as someone who is very familiar with it, being her major work the Poisoned Needle, I am sorry to say I did not find it convincing. Usually when I check her sources they always come out correct or the numbers are very close to what she states. I checked her on several facts including for instance the military hepatitis side effect of vaccine incident. My research, limited is it maybe, his always tended to confirm her. Bechamp is yet one more example.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Thank you for the kind invitation, but I am not on Facebook.

Actually, I only wanted to point out that Ms. McBean was not a doctor. She was often brought up long ago, and there had been a more extensive article about on Wikipedia, but she has fallen by the wayside.

I noticed that has happened with many of the 19th and early 20th century medical “mavericks”. Ironically one thing that is good about Scudamore is that his website is often the only that remains!

Dear Chris,

I hope you were able to receive and read my other message, before you read thos one, and consoder it. So I have read the article that you recommended on Bechamp. I am a bit disapointed. It did make me think and that is good but it did so little to actually deal with Bechamp’s experiemnts or conclusions. I mean I guess I should be relieved. God knows what I would do if it showed or seemed to show his experiements false (probably ask Mr. Scudamofe abput it because I dont have that many other Germ Theory denialosts to ask about this issue) never the less the fact that it didn’t even try is dissapointing. I mean, I have seen video documentation of bacteria transforming into red blood cells. I, Im not sure how I would make an about face when I have seen it with my own eyes.

There is also the fact that Rife and another scientist , Gaston Naessens, as well as I believe Dr. Wilhelm Reich, came to the exact same or very similar conclusions as Professor Bechamp with regards to the microzymas Bechamp believed played a more important role I’m dosease than bacteria, infact he believed they were one of the true keys to understandomg disease.

Never the less maybe the footage was doctored or misinterpreted, maybe the other doctors somehow knew about Bechamp or all came to the same quackery independently which is really far out there (Like later Gnostics and Joseph Smith just randomly coming to some of the the same conclusions as ealier classic Gnostics due to a common Gnostic experience).

Maybe. But it is all a real stretch for me. I just couldn’t do an about face on my veliefs with what I have seen so far after all I have seen before.

Also in reference to my other comment, on FB I am Samuel Justus.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Well, Bechamp did science in an era long ago. Reich was actually a psychiatrist with some interesting ideas on sex. Still science has progressed since the middle of the 20th century.

Some suggested reading:

Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science by Martin Gardner. Even though it was written long ago, it is still relevant.

Microbe Hunters by Paul de Kruif, an even older book, but it goes into depth on how microbiology was like early in its discovery.

Rabid: A Cultural History of the World’s Most Diabolical Virus by Bill Wasik and‎ Monica Murphy, more recent history of the work of Pasteur (plus other things)

The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History by John M. Barry, a good history of microbiology and medical science.

By the way, one of my interests is the history of science (and biographies). This is why I have read quite a few books on the subject. Another favorite of mine is Age of Wonder by Richard Holmes which is about the intersection of the early English scientists and their relationship to their contemporary literary counterparts like Keats and Mary Shelley (whose book Frankenstein is being discussed due it being its 100 year anniversary). Then there are the many books by Oliver Sacks, I especially enjoyed Uncle Tungsten, and his autobiography as he died from cancer One the Move where he finally finds Bill Hayes, the love of his life:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/26/bill-hayes-insomniac-city-my-life-with-oliver-sacks-new-york

The love of my life (so far) has long since moved on, but here I am remembering butterfly kisses. If only I had been a real “him”…

We are still friends, and we both love cats. He’s a real professor now, which is still kind of hard to believe for some reason.

Anyway, extraneous, and I think I’ve shared my recent reading and recommendations already.

JP: “Anyway, extraneous, and I think I’ve shared my recent reading and recommendations already.”

What better to do in the rainy drippy Pacific Northwest in winter but curl up with a good book and a cup of some warm beverage.

I think I’ve already recommended Alt-America, which I recently finished, and Fantasyland, which I’m currently reading.

I’m currently drinking rum and coke actually, but I drink a lot of coffee during the day.

I’ve also been spending my afternoons doing transcription for an online transcription service. It doesn’t pay nearly as well as the book job, but at least it’s something between translation jobs.

It’s actually interesting a lot of the time; I’ve done a conversation between two scientists about an experiment, a convo between a therapist and a stroke victim about advice for people just getting out of the hospital, and a bunch of interesting interviews for Mozilla.

I mean, I have seen video documentation of bacteria transforming into red blood cells.

No, you haven’t. You have seen a video segment produced by a criminally-convicted quack (Robert O. Young) that does not show what it purports to.

Anyone who has actually spent any time using a microscope to examine a suspension of something like blood realizes that particulates in the suspension can drift and rotate. What is actually going on is that a red blood cell, which shape-wise is more or less a cross between a disk and a doughnut, is drifting into focus and rotating so that it lies essentially flat within the extremely shallow depth of focus of the microscope. Nothing is transforming, it is just moving.

If a bacterium were to transform into an RBC, where would the DNA go? the cell wall? the …? Do these things simply magically vanish from existence?
For the reverse transformation, where would those same things come from? (since I’m pretty certain you don’t know: human mature RBCs don’t have DNA, organelles or cell walls; bacteria do)

Dear Chris,

But have you ever actually studied Bechamp’s works or any of his experiments? Because it seems your knowledge of him comes entirely from what other people wrote about him. It also seems strange you said he worked long ago, as if truth had an expiration date. That is why I pointed to the other scientists, because they came to conclusions very similar to Bechamp. And Reich was more than a psychiatrist, ans based on my reading he not only rediscovered microzymas independently butade even more important discovers essentially proving vitalism.

Would it be so hard for you to purchase the book I linked to earlier (it is $4.99) and judge for yourself the truth of his work? There are two other books I could recommend, the first bound with the second. Simply Google or Pasteur Bechamp PDF.

And I have actually read parts of Microbe Hunters. It is featured in a book about Bechamp and Pasteur titled Pasteur, Plagiarist, Imposter! the Germ Theory Exploded! By RB Pearson. The excerpts do not make Pasteur look like a good scientist.

I would also note that Dr. Eleanor Mcbean, who I believe did ultimately become an N.D., personally lived through the 1918 flu Pandemic and ascribed it entirely to the effects of multiple vaccinations (and the medical treatments that followed) on the soldiers returning from the Great War and the excess vaccines foisted on the public:

The first World War was of a short duration, so the vaccine makers were unable to use up all their vaccines. As they were (and still are) in business for profit, they decided to sell it to the rest of the population. So they drummed up the largest vaccination campaign in U.S. history. There were no epidemics to justify it so they used other tricks. Their propaganda claimed the soldiers were coming home from foreign countries with all kinds of diseases and that everyone must have all the shots on the market.

Swine Flu Expose, Ch. 2, The Spanish Influenza Epidemic of 1918 was caused by Vaccination. Dr. Eleanor Mcbean, Ph.D. N.D., hosted at whale to. Retrieved 01/18/2018.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

But have you ever actually studied Bechamp’s works or any of his experiments?

Dear G-d, next it’s going to be the fake Pasteur recantation. Have you ever actually tested out Béchamp’s idea? It’s really simple to do.

@Narad

Dear goodness, next it is going to be the fake claim that all naturopath’s are Quacks. That is you that is how you sound.

I would never use Pasteur’s supposed recantation of his views, because it does not matter if he recanted or not and because I was not there. I do not know what he said. This is just a red herring and a baiting type of argument. What matters is what is Truth.

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health. At least two other scientists have come to similar conclusions as Bechamp, especially about the Microzymas, including Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens. There are videos documenting the existance of microzymas and their transformations.

Elsewhere you said you just claimed to be a nice guy and an athelete. But you dont act nice and you dont demonstrate good sportsmanship. You are acting like someone who is more interested in baiting and trolling, not trying to find the truth and share it with others. Sad an athelete would act so weak. The old Strong Men would be ashamed. Maybe you should revise your claims.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

“I have seen video documentation of bacteria transforming into red blood cells”

That must be like the end of “Fantastic Voyage”, when the ultra-miniaturised scientists return to their normal size.

So what about everyone who lost children to disease that we now have vaccines for? Does their suffering not count? Would you tell a 14 year old boy who has just discovered that he will never run again and that his beloved sister (a healthy 13 year old cheerleader) has died that a vaccine for polio would be bad? Because maybe some day generations in the future another child will have asthma (which is actually caused by that power plant, but never mind)?

And speaking directly to HPV, would you tell the woman who will never birth a child because she had to have her cancerous cervix removed that this is somehow better than getting vaccinated?

You talk about “two sides”. One side has data, evidence and a willingness to change. The other side has fear guilt and a need to blame, but a total unwillingness to change. You sound like you would send us back to a time before vaccination. Even supposing your suffering is caused by vaccines (probably not) how many thousands of times would that suffering be multiplied by if instead we all had all those diseases?

You are both deeply callous and deeply unimaginative.

Dear JustaTech,

“So what about everyone who lost children …(which is actually caused by that power plant, but never mind)?”

I will answer your question but I first note we have not eliminated paralytic conditions, including those thought to be caused by viruses. Many of these, including Transverse Myelitis, are simply Polio renamed. It was the elimination of paralytic toxins such as DDT and Parathion which account for part of the decrease in Polio, and the renaming and reclassification of Polio which accounts for the other part. We have cut open a great dragon and thousands of little ones have sprung from it. Are we better off, now that we have ventilators for the paralytics to be on, instead of iron lungs?

Second, if their child was living, I would pray for them personally as I believe prayer heals, but I would also seek physical remedies for them such as vitamin therapy and other natural options. If I had the money I would pay for it out of my own pocket as insurance often does not cover these types of treatments.

It is not a potential that side effects from vaccination have come, at least to me. And in contrast to your own and your authorities I must give my testimony that they are not beneficent side effects such as the reduction in so called communicate diseases. We have traded diseases which usually kill at least quickly, for those which kill slowly, in measures and degrees and slices. Such happened to Colton. Such happens to many others, including me.

“And speaking directly to HPV….”

I would be very sorry for this person and believe that her suffering counts just as much as Colton’s or anyone else’s.

I believe that if purple system would embrace the alternative doctors you believe to be Cranks, Quacks, and Charlatans, then we would not have so many cases such as the one you describe, particularly if Amygdalin were returned to pur diet in the form of millet and sorghum, and other amygdalin rich foods, and that these foods should be fed to our animals which we eat as well.

“You talk about “two sides”….”

There are objectively at least two groups, being the Pro-Vaccinationists and the Anti- Vaccinationists.

I would certainly not send us back to a time when sewage ran in the streets, when whole families, including children, worked long hours, slept in the same filthy beds in the same clothes they worked in, and are heavily when they are at all of foods that today anyone would recognize as well beyond their expiration date. I would not take us back to a time when doctors treated diseases with arsenicals and mercurics, when they bled their patients dry and left them without water in steam baths for some many hours that many of the smallpox deaths must have been from heat stroke. I would not take us back to such a time.

Suffering will always continue as long as people turn away from truths that are uncomfortable and blindly trust authority. I am trying to do better about that…how about you?

I am always open to the idea that I am wrong. I am always open to the idea that I am on the side of error. I thought I might be as I read this. But the data I have an the experiences I have, well I have no way to reconcile them if I throw out my system and take on yours. And all the name calling in the world directed at me will not help me in that endeavor.

“You are both deeply callous and deeply unimaginative.”

I will close by saying that, once again I would rather be on the side of truth, and be called the two names you have used to describe me, than be on the side of error and be praised. If I was simply looking for praise I would not come here, for I know I will receive none but rather most likely derision.

I love you as O love all beings and I thank you for the things you have said to me as well as the OP, no matter what you may say to me or what you may do to me that will not change.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Same Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Dear Christopher Hickie,

Well to quote another man considered mad, being the Prophet Joseph Smith, “Deep waters are what I am wont to swim in.” (Wikiquote, from memory)

Though I guess I am not just human, or rather other than human in a way, since I am a furry. :3

Sorry I would just rather keep light hearted about comments such as this as they do no good in helping me change my views, if they are in evidence and in fact false. And I would be open to changing them, though again name calling will not help but good and honest dialogue and facts would help.

So maybe you could be more specific about what parts of what I have said you Disagree with and find so Foolish? Is DDT not paralytic? Is Parathion? Ar ethey not banned or at least severely limited as to their use in the US? Are the conditons I have descrived in the earlier times not acccurate? Are the conditions I have listed not paralytic? Are some of them not also attributed to viruses? Are Ventilators not used? Might it not follow that the reasons I have given might not in fact he the reasons for the decline? I sincerely believe they are.

You do seem like an amiable fellow though so I would enjoy being friends with you if you want, though considering what I have said I doubt you would want to be friends with me.

Never the less, while being light hearted I am deadly serious in my views about what I have said. Ik not trolling, I am simply fighting peacefully and peaceably for what I believe to be the honest Truth.

I truly and honestly believe they are the best representation of reality that I know.

If I am wrong I am truly sorry, aye, may I be forgiven. If I am right, aye, may Truth alone be vindicated. 😇

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

I mean, I have seen video documentation of bacteria transforming into red blood cells. I, Im not sure how I would make an about face when I have seen it with my own eyes.

I saw a guy named David Copperfield make a car disappear. How could I doubt that he can do that? I saw it with my own eyes.

Just a question about your account: if bacteria can transform into red blood cells, where do they get all that hemoglobin that ends up inside?

Dear Parallax Fullofshitticus verbocius makeupcrappicus–

You are wrong in the way that a flat earther is wrong in their beliefs. Polio was not DDT and all the other rot your addled brain thinks it is. I’d sooner spend my time teaching a 6 year-old that 2+2=4 (and not 5) than try to backfill the miscarved gyri of wasted synaptic connections in your addled cortex.
Your blathering isn’t even slightly entertaining.
Please go away and do something more useful like standing in the park as a pigeon target. Stupid like yours makes me question how humans ever go to where we are today.

@ Parallax

I will answer your question but I first note we have not eliminated paralytic conditions, including those thought to be caused by viruses. Many of these, including Transverse Myelitis, are simply Polio renamed.

“thought to be caused”?
I would have thought that the clusterf!ck which was the Cutter incident would have firmly established a relationship between the virus the vaccine manufacturer failed to properly inactivate and the resulting polio cases in the people who received the defective vaccine.

“paralytic conditions […] are simply Polio renamed”
Oh, FFS.
The symptoms differ, the progression of the illnesses differ, the causing agents are known in many of these other conditions – and they have been described concurrently as polio. Some countries still have the polio virus infecting people every day, it’s not like we cannot compare and contrast.

Measles, smallpox, herpes and a few other virus-induced illnesses all have as a symptom the appearance of spots on the skin. Smallpox has been eradicated by vaccines. Are you going to tell me that measles is “simply smallpox renamed”?

Christopher Hickie,

Its true. I suffer froma mental illness. But my Psychiatrist says I am very intellignet. Lawyers I have talked to and multiple people online and IRL have told me this. Ill take their word over yours, with all due respect. Name calling does nothing to advamce this conversation or Truth.

As far as your other comments, since they do absolutely nothing to establish the premises you are claiming, I do not believe them. I definitely did not make up my statements. I will be glad to provide sources for my claims. How about you?

As far as standing outside for a pigeon target, maybe you are right. I am stupid so why don’t you stand outside and give me a demonstration of what you are talking about. I’m sometimes a visual learner. :3

And I don’t and cannot go away. I am here to stand up for what I believe is truth. And I would rather be on the side of truth and be mocoed and called names than be on the sife of error and be praised.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Dear @Helianthus

Unfortunately, no it doesn’t, see Ch. 10 of the Poisoned Needle, Hidden Dnagers in the Polio Vaccine, for a brief breakdown of the Cutter incident.

It does not surprise me at all that the symptoms differ. Many of these diseases were attributed to Polio before better diagnositic techniques were available and in addition to this, the vaccine itself changes the course of the illness, when it is not directly causal in it.

Many of Those other countries have horrified living conditons and in addictions to this, they have acces to and use Pesticides, such as DDT, which are banned in the US. That is 2 confounding factors right there.

It would not at all supprise me if what you stated about measles was true. I have not looked into it. What I can say is that the horrors of Small Pox in the Past were due mainly to the extremely poor hygiene and nutritional conditions combined with the interventions of the medical men of that time, some of which I have already described. Natural doctors found Small Pox to be one of the most easy and mild diseases to treat. But hey, all you have to do is call them cranks right, and I guess that will make it so.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

@Narad

Oh Look, a second irrelevant comment by people who claim to champion reason and logic.

Can we stop the immaturity? A kid died. More kids could die based OK whichever side of this febate is wrong. Can we maybe remember that?

Sincerely,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Oh Look, a second irrelevant comment by people who claim to champion reason and logic.

“People”? I’ve never claimed to be anything but a nice guy and an athlete, MMS Boy.

Dear goodness, next it is going to be the fake claim that all naturopath’s are Quacks. That is you that is how you sound.

I would never use Pasteur’s supposed recantation of his views, because it does not matter if he recanted or not and because I was not there. I do not know what he said. This is just a red herring and a baiting type of argument. What matters is what is Truth.

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health. At least two other scientists have come to similar conclusions as Bechamp, especially about the Microzymas, including Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens. There are videos documenting the existance of microzymas and their transformations.

Elsewhere you said you just claimed to be a nice guy and an athelete. But you dont act nice and you dont demonstrate good sportsmanship. You are acting like someone who is more interested in baiting and trolling, not trying to find the truth and share it with others. Sad an athelete would act so weak. The old Strong Men would be ashamed. Maybe you should revise your claims.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

So, Parallax seems to be 1) incredibly misinformed about everything about infectious disease, 2) incredibly misinformed about the human condition through history, 3) 100% conspiracy theorist about polio (yeah, everything you said is wrong) and 4) still deeply cruel, 5) suffer from terrible stream of semi-consciousness writing.

Parallax, you are fractally wrong about polio.

Dear Chris,

I jusr got your mesagw above, and awe, that is to bad. Well I hope I see more of you somewhere. My email is samuel . justus . way @ gmail . com. If I get death threats from pro vaccinationists and spammers, oh well. And if I seem desperate It is just because I am starved to talk about this issue with an educated skeptic who can guide me in looking at the other side becuase I have trouble reading both sides because if I have a question or dont understand something I have precisely no one to ask about it except God, and I believe He She gives other peole in our lives to help us. Most skeptics have no idea what I am talking about and neither do many of my Anti Vaccinationist friends either. It is sad. Well, sad for me at least.

Sincerely and Ever Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

@Doug

“No, you didn’t…”

Ummm…..so I went back and watched the video you suggested was misinterpreted, and that I originally recommended elsehwere, and your explanation definitely does not account for what is happening there.

I would simply encourage anyone to watch the video and decide for themselves. It starts at minute 2.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cI0v_h-Y0UY&feature=youtu.be

Also would you please elaborate on your charges against him?

“If a bacterium were to transform into an RBC, where would the DNA go? the cell wall? the …? Do these things simply magically vanish from existence?”

Microzymas, also known as Somatids, would be involved in those transformations. They are extremely small organisms which are involved in the building of the cell and of life in the plant, fungi, and animal kingdom. I don’t think that the parts you were talking about would magically disappear. Magic usually isn’t so consistent. They would likely be broken down and transformed by the microzymas.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

So, why don’t you draw on your extensive personal experience in microscopy and explain specifically what is in error in may description of what is happening?

“I would simply encourage anyone to watch the video and decide for themselves. It starts at minute 2.”
“Anyone” being the subset of people who has knowledge of biology and significant experience in microscopy, so that they have something beyond a very vague clue about what they were looking at?

Microzymas are simply not accepted as existing, except in the fevered minds of the kooks of alt-med.

You have also failed to account for the origin of the DNA for bacteria that are “transformed” from RBCs. Would one expect the DNA to be consistent with known species of bacteria? If these microzymas are making the DNA, whence commeth the info they require to assemble it properly?

“So, why don’t you draw…is happening?”

I am just curious, have you actually used the Rife or Naessens microscopes? Do you have extensive personal experience with them? Do you have knowledge of any of the actual experiments Bechamp did? If not then maybe you should not discount their conclusions. Here is a good explanation of Naessens’ somatoscope:

But I will answer your question. To me it does not look like a cell coming into and out of focus. The rod bacteria, the line and the way it moves (follow it with his laser pointer) it doesn’t look like a cell coming into and out of focus to me.
“I would simply…looking at?

Microzymas are simply not accepted as existing…”

Nanobacteria are accepted as existing. Microzymas, They are documented in the original video and in the following video as well and have been independently confirmed from Bechamp’s original discoveries by Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens:

“You have also failed to account for the origin…properly?”

I believe that the terrain of the body itself and the condition of the RBC would determine what sort of bacteria develop. Some of this information I believe would likely be found in the microzymas themselves and they and the terrain and condition of the cell would determine what was manifested..
That is explained here (ibid):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py-hutc5ZNM&t=5s starting at minute 6.

I don’t know why skeptics think name calling makes them look more mature. Then again, I’m sure they could make the same kind of statements against me. All I know is you are more likely to change peoples’ minds and protect those on the fence if you talk to people, not at them.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

@Narad

Dear goodness, next it is going to be the fake claim that all naturopath’s are Quacks. That is you that is how you sound.

I would never use Pasteur’s supposed recantation of his views, because it does not matter if he recanted or not and because I was not there. I do not know what he said. This is just a red herring and a baiting type of argument. What matters is what is Truth.

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health. At least two other scientists have come to similar conclusions as Bechamp, especially about the Microzymas, including Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens. There are videos documenting the existance of microzymas and their transformations.

Elsewhere you said you just claimed to be a nice guy and an athelete. But you dont act nice and you dont demonstrate good sportsmanship. You are acting like someone who is more interested in baiting and trolling, not trying to find the truth and share it with others. Sad an athelete would act so weak. The old Strong Men would be ashamed. Maybe you should revise your claims.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Dear goodness, next it is going to be the fake claim that all naturopath’s are Quacks. That is you that is how you sound.

I would never use Pasteur’s supposed recantation of his views, because it does not matter if he recanted or not and because I was not there. I do not know what he said. This is just a red herring and a baiting type of argument. What matters is what is Truth.

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health. At least two other scientists have come to similar conclusions as Bechamp, especially about the Microzymas, including Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens. There are videos documenting the existance of microzymas and their transformations.

Elsewhere you said you just claimed to be a nice guy and an athelete. But you dont act nice and you dont demonstrate good sportsmanship. You are acting like someone who is more interested in baiting and trolling, not trying to find the truth and share it with others. Sad an athelete would act so weak. The old Strong Men would be ashamed. Maybe you should revise your claims.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

They followed Dorit’s link from a twitter thread, and if “reading comprehension” was part of their skill-set, they wouldn’t be spittle-flecked and anti-vax.

czc77,

for some reason it wasn’t immediately clear to me who wrote it. I didn’t realize it was ORAC, (Dr. Gorski?). That is why in my original comment I just addressed myself to the OP and reader.

I don’t know what you mean by parachuters, but I assume you mean anti vaxxers, many of which have been vaccinated and have watched themselves and their children suffer from vaccinations, just as Cotton’s family did. This includes Polly Tommley, who is mentioned in a more recent post on this blog. It includes me as well, for whatever little that is worth to you.

Sincerely and Truly,

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Aside from all the lies and misinformation that antivaxxers like to spread about this and other vaccines, their laser-like focus on cancer is astounding. I’d like to congratulate them for being so privileged that they have never experienced the anxiety of a cervical lesion that needs to be biopsied. They need to be patted on the back for being good little saintly saints who have never had sex with someone who had HPV. They never had to wait around to see if the lesion was cancer or not. They never had to explain to their partners how and why they can’t have sex because of the warts.

I would like one antivaxxer, just one, to tell me what an appropriate age for Hepatitis B vaccine age is if newborns are too young and “don’t have sex or use IV drugs” (as if that’s the only way to get Hep B), or what the appropriate age for the HPV vaccine is if twelve or thirteen is too young (because we all know that teenagers are not sexually active at all, no way).

“(because we all know that teenagers are not sexually active at all, no way).”

Nor are they victims of sexual assault. Obviously, never. [end sarcasm]

How dare you say that the HPV VACCINE GARDISIL did not cause Collins Injuries! You know all to well that it did! You and Dr. Off it will pay for your lies and corruption some day very soon! Can’t wait to see you pay!

Is there some rule that says the anti-vaxxers need to foam at the mouth rather than simply state an opinion. I know righteous indignation is fun but this is just a bit over the top (not quite as much as Jelica, though).

As an occasional lurker and commenter here, I would also like to know the answer to that. I have never seen anything like this thread since I’ve been (occasionally) dropping in here.

Is there some rule that says the anti-vaxxers need to foam at the mouth rather than simply state an opinion.

Virtue-signalling? They do see to be writing more for the eyes of their fellow drive-by commentors than to convince anyone.

In fairness, there is also an element of selection bias. Less spittle-flecked antivaxxers would not be hanging on to a particular twittle thread, hastening the day of the revolution by Liking and Retweeting comments, and therefore would not have seen the link from Dorit announcing this post.

This is one death they REALLY want to believe was from a vaccine. I think James Weiler didn’t wait even 5 minutes after it was announced before his defamatory blog was up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had written it already.

It’s all extremely sad. Yet not surprising.

It’s consistent with an increasing polarization I’m seeing for HPV vaccination clinically. Parents are either very much for it or incredibly against it. And presentation of facts is not in any way desired by those who refuse it.

Holy crap, my thought entirely. what a shit-show this topic direction went into, around, and back again.

Good grief. This is the first time I’ve ever seen so much antivax invective in the comments, though I have admittedly not been following the blog for more than a few years. Orac, if those loons can find your new site just to shitpost I think your previous concerns about losing search engine mojo after the move to this new site might not be quite as serious as previously thought.

@ Anonymous Coward:

Right.
And that’s without the help of anti-vax sites like AoA or Jake’s ( cesspit) who REFUSE to add to Orac’s numbers by linking to his work or even talking about it so that he’ll just fade away .
Since the move, I haven’t heard anyone – including their commenters- even mention his name or RI.

Over the last 9 or 10 years though, I have seen more anti-vaxxers come here to carp and moan HOWEVER the current crop quite makes up for quantity by quality of lunacy which is high grade.

And -btw-, Orac’s post is ranked right near the top of the first page on bing. ( After a bio, obits and an anti-vax post)

I keep thinking about Colton’s state of mind, from the time of onset of TM to the moment he chose to take his own life. It is so painful. It seems like his parents — from comments prior to the family being exploited by the Vaxxed ghouls — could not accept Colton’s altered physical state, and thought of him as “less than” already. The family’s pre-ghoul attitude might have been the same if Colton had suffered a physical spine injury from the robust activities he loved — like motocross.

But in the end, the Vaxxed ghouls got the drumbeat of “he was vaccine injured” and “he deserved to have a non-disabled body” going in the family. What person could withstand that, without the support of a community that accepts disability and helps the person live their fullest life?

Yes, Liz.

My wife does some quiet on the side work for a group named after a boy who committed suicide after being abused.

It struck me that living in such a negative environment day-in, day-out could be almost like being abused.

But perhaps they truly were supportive and encouraged him to have a productive life despite his disability?

I am told there programs for military folk with recent catastrophic injuries, in which they are paired with someone who had a similar injury some years before, for mutual understanding, tips and tricks for managing issues, and similar. I wonder if Colton could have come to terms, given more robust support….

It’s not at all surprising that many antivaxers (like the ones who posted here) are frothing at the mouth with crazy accusations, when their leaders promulgate similar or even more vicious nuttery.

Lyons-Weiler says the New York Times has “lost it” because it calls for “mandatory death” for those with the “wrong genes”*, by printing this op-ed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/upshot/measles-vaccination-california-students.html?ref=oembed

L-W’s paranoia is so intense, that his recent blog post refuses to identify “states” working on alleged patient rights (i.e. antivax) initiatives, because if the OTHER SIDE learns about it, they’ll block such legislation (I think opponents might obtain a subtle clue when legislative dingbats actually introduce such bills. Too bad antivaxers can’t obtain secret votes to gain passage before the OTHER SIDE can mobilize).

*L-W is sure the “wrong genes” exist, even though he rejects the idea of the “wrong genes” causing autism without vaccines being responsible. He just knows, and he has a PhD, so watch out.

James “Lyin'” Weiler AKA James “Cherry-Pickin'” Weiler has become increasingly unhinged in the last few months.

His new “theory” is that the recent flu deaths are flu SHOT deaths.

Or as he puts it:

“The pattern of death in a high percentage of cases is most consistent with thimerosal injury to the immune system from the flu vaccine. The use of Tamiflu may also be implicated.”

I can’t make this up.

He’s a gift to the pro-science, pro-vaccine, actual vaccine risk aware community. Each time he comes up with a new insane theory another on-the-fence parents decides to vaccinate.

I hope he never stops!

Nothing to say about Colton, except that it’s very sad that a young man thought the only thing to do was die. (Not that I haven’t been there, for different reasons.)

My children, now in their late 20s/30s had the HPV vaccine when it was new and only 2 strains. One child was exposed to HPV (thanks, cheating fiance, since he was the only male she’d ever had unprotected sex with). Imagine needing multiple paps and colposcopies in your early 20s. Fortunately, after a few years of watchful waiting, she was cleared of infection. But we really wish she’d not had to go through all that.

As for Person who is Really Long-Winded and writes a lot of crap: Please note that any citations require the information so we can validate what the citation actually says. You see, here, we are skeptics and tend to double check for cherry-picking. And, btw…youtube videos are NOT a valid citation.

@Parallax etc:

I checked out the video. Not impressed. Whatever was going on there was not a bacterium turning into a red blood cell. You have been conned by the worst: Convicted Felon Robert O Young.

About two weeks after, he experienced a painful neck ache following the vaccine and was given Tylenol to alleviate the pain. Adventurous by nature, the next day, Colton and his dad went motor-cross riding to use Colton’s new bike.

This struck me as rather strange. A “painful neck ache” was resolved sufficiently with some Tylenol to allow him to go off motorcycle riding. Motocross, depending rather heavily on just what is done, can give the body quite a pounding. It isn’t exactly neck-friendly. I regard a parent who permitted a child that had very recently experienced unattributed neck pain to go motocross riding to be remarkably irresponsible.

Does it seem reasonable to anyone that apparently abruptly-arising pain at the onset of ALTM would be controlled adequately by Tylenol to allow the sufferer to go off to do motocross riding? Tylenol isn’t all that effective for pain relief and it has no anti-inflammatory properties.

What struck me as rather strange was the transparent (not to mention repetitive) attempt to make the time course/connection between the two events seem credible.

Just saying his illness occurred two weeks after the last shot in a multi-shot series taking place over months is not very convincing. Much better to stuff two separate mentions of the vaccination into the same sentence, sandwiched around the neck ache.

Dangerous Bacon writes,

Just saying his illness occurred two weeks after the last shot in a multi-shot series taking place over months is not very convincing.

MJD says,

Q. How many licks does it take to get to the chocolate center of a lollipop.

A. Impossible to say in that it’s different for everyone.

@Narad

@Narad

Dear goodness, next it is going to be the fake claim that all naturopath’s are Quacks. That is you that is how you sound.

I would never use Pasteur’s supposed recantation of his views, because it does not matter if he recanted or not and because I was not there. I do not know what he said. This is just a red herring and a baiting type of argument. What matters is what is Truth.

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health. At least two other scientists have come to similar conclusions as Bechamp, especially about the Microzymas, including Royal Rife and Gaston Naessens. There are videos documenting the existance of microzymas and their transformations.

Elsewhere you said you just claimed to be a nice guy and an athelete. But you dont act nice and you dont demonstrate good sportsmanship. You are acting like someone who is more interested in baiting and trolling, not trying to find the truth and share it with others. Sad an athelete would act so weak. The old Strong Men would be ashamed. Maybe you should revise your claims.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

I have tested Bechamp’s ideas in the only way I know how. I have tried to support my body better, I have supported my terrain, and taken better care of it, and I have found this helpful in the preservation of my health.

Perhaps you have been too reliant on secondary crap (although Hume even manages to criticize Béchamp for going too easy on germ theory). Howsabout you ingest some toxic bacteria and see how your “terrain” handles it? Remember, they are merely by-products within the body in the Béchampian world. You could probably whomp up some C. botulinum at home.

To the above two commenters.

Well, as it turns out I have done just that. Back when I was severely OCD and anxiety, before I got help, I couldn’t clean my house. The floors were filthy. I injected things that had fallen onto those floors. I did not become sick. That is not the only example I could give but honestly I am to embarrassed to give the others. I have been around filth my whole life including abusive situations in Childhood. If anything I was less sick than other children and had and received an award upon graduating high school for perfect attendance in every grade K-12. I didn’t miss much preschool except a few times I stayed home because I wanted to see what it was like. I had….a strange childhood.

Chris, I absolutely do believe good science has been done in this and the last century. Unfortunately the doctors who did this were killed by the Rockefeller Drug Empire and the FDA, were persecuted, were cast out, and these of whom the world was not worthy, to paraphrase a statement from the New Testament, were treated as outcasts and vagabonds, when they were not killed outright.

I had the pleasure of meeting one of those doctors in person. Dr. Jeff Bradstreet. He was doing good work. He had no reason to commit suicide. His family still believes he was murdered and so do I. He is one of hundreds of such cases.

Good work has been done through science in the last century, it is just hampered by false theories and by a system which puts so much pressure on doctors it breaks them.

Chris, It is a little sad to see the name calling but it is gentle so I will make no protest to that.

Also, back to you Narad, as far as an official test that has already been done:

Numerous experiments with germs conducted in the past have conclusively proven that bacteria does not and cannot produce disease in a healthy organism. Years ago, Dr. Pettenkofer, professor at the University of Vienna, came to the conclusion that germs alone do not produce pathology and for years defended his position from the lecture platform and in his writings. On more than one occasion he and his assistants swallowed the contents of glasses containing millions of living cholera germs. Dr. Thomas Powell of California, who is believed to have taken more germs than any other man, challenged his medical colleagues to produce a single disease by germ inoculation. He was inoculated with cholera germs, bubonic plague germs and bacteria of every description and which was fed to him in every kind of food, yet nothing happened. Read U.S. Government Bulletin “Hygienic Laboratory—Bulletin No. 123, Feb. 1921”, for further proof on contagious diseases.

IBID. Poisoned Needle, Addendum VACCINATION—A MEDICAL DELUSION By Rex U. Lloyd. Hosted whale to. Retrieved

Chris, that is one of the reasons I like the older material. It contains answers to questions such as this.

Parallax) +

Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

Also, back to you Narad, as far as an official test that has already been done:

Numerous experiments with germs conducted in the past have conclusively proven that bacteria does not and cannot produce disease in a healthy organism.

Then you should have no issue with replicating this work in the noble tradition of self-experimentation.

Parallax, you seem like a very intelligent person, whose tough life has deprived them of some key opportunities.

The good news is that, as far as key learning opportunities, the Internet makes it easier than it’s ever been to catch up. I think you deserve a chance to reach your full potential.

Part of that is to understand about cognitive biases and how they can make us confident about very wrong answers.

This is a good introduction to the subject: http://mentalfloss.com/article/68705/20-cognitive-biases-affect-your-decisions

Much of the evidence that you’ve put before us — evidence that you seem to be extremely confident proves you right — is, objectively speaking, not strong evidence. I believe the reason it LOOKS strong to you is confirmation bias. A story which appears to confirm Béchampian ideas of “it’s all the terrain” seems extremely believable to you, because you’ve already accepted Béchampian ideas. There are far more rational explanations for the evidence observed, but you overlook them, and in the meantime, faced with literally centuries’-worth of evidence from literally all over the world which support germ theory, you dismiss it all with the unbelievable explanation “one family has somehow successfully faked all such evidence.”

Don’t you see the double standard there? You can believe that literally millions of medical professionals have lied for a hundred years at the behest of the Rockefellers — but when you read some guy’s boasting that he ingested millions of cholera germs and it didn’t give him cholera, you don’t consider that maybe he was lying? Or even mistaken?? You say ‘I know Béchamp was right, because the evidence points to it.’ But does it really? Does the evidence actually point that way, without that double standard?

You know what is really sad? By all accounts, Colton was living a very full life for someone with his kind of disabilities. He rode a recumbent bike, swam, skied, and rode the dune buggy with his family. I think his parents had financial means to make all this possible. With therapy, he might have done even more. I wonder what his life would have been like if he had not heard so often that he was damaged and his life ruined? I feel so sad for him.

I just came home after going to a presentation on “The State of Autism in 2018.” One of the presenters was an autistic advocate for more acceptance (working on his Masters in social work).

He presented some surprising statistics, one of which autistic people have a nine times higher rate of suicide compared to the general population. He also presented ways people make it harder for autistic people: like not accepting, not understanding, etc… but one was the medical need to “cure” autism.

That reminded how many of the “vaccine cause autism” crowd are also “curebies.” Subjecting their kids to all sorts of odd treatments because their kids were not what they expected. I guess this bunch got to Colton’s parents, so instead of accepting that something terrible happened and learn to deal with it — they got sucked into the blame game.

The same blame game that kills autistic kids:
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?s=murder&submit=Search

… and makes them like “The Gnat”: https://respectfulinsolence.com/?s=jake+crosby

It also has to do with communication problems. When my kid is stressed he literally cannot speak, and he is hard to understand to someone who does not know him on a good day.

He had an anecdote about one young autistic man who was in the emergency department for suicidal thoughts. The staff diagnosed him with schizophrenia and wanted to give him a prescription of something so that he would make eye contact. Le sigh.

Anyway, the video of that workshop will be up in a bit, but there is more information here:
http://www.seattlechildrens.org/classes-community/current-class-offerings/autism-200-series/

The young man is running the one next November.

I am not surprised by that stat. Being neurodiverse can be very isolating. Definitely something we deal with in our house, sadly. We work hard, with experts, to help our kid.

Oh the gnat. I feel sorry for him. He was warped by this parents.

Here is an explanation of why the science you present is weak — and why we must still consider the viral exposure (not to mention other ingredients) and the immune-stimulating activity of a vaccine must be considered in all cases of TM. Even public health recognizes a two to three month window for this to happen, full antibody/inflammatory response often takes longer. As viral infections commonly have a latency period at least as long as this, why do you consider two weeks such an extraordinarily long latency. Much can go wrong when you stoke the most powerful (and poorly understood) defense system in the world — the
h human immune system. Keep your mind open.
http://media.journals.elsevier.com/content/files/s1568997212000778-30144127.pdf

From the main body:

It seems not unreasonable to consider vaccines rare triggers of autoimmune reactions in genetically or immunologically predisposed individuals [12]. However, there exists no “unequivocal and irrevocable” evidence of a causative link between immunization and autoimmunity [13].

From the Conclusion:

Case histories, retrospective reviews and epidemiological studies report on the occurrence of immune adverse events after HBV vaccination. These study methods lack sensitivity to categorically prove a causal relationship between vaccination and acute myelitis, but leave open to doubt a faint possibility of linkage.

A whole lot of “might”, “possible” and “maybe”. Also, the article was published almost 6 years ago.
Very weak tea.
Finally, I had a look at the References. Yehuda Shoenfeld was an author or co-author on 18. Mark and David Geier were on 4. Tomljenovic and Shaw wrote the last Reference.
Dubious to say the least.

More than that. “Leave open the faint possibility” is something I might say about a very implausible bit of alternative medicine quackery. it’s scientese for, “This is pretty much impossible, but because we can never 100% prove a negative in science, we have to add this small concession to the incredibly slim possibility of a link.”

Yehuda Shoenfeld is the author of 26 medical textbooks in immunology, some of them cornerstones of clinical practice. With more than 1600 publications to his name on Pubmed, and as editor and founder of at least two medical journals in immunology and as founder of the Autoimmunity Congress , attended by thousands of physicians bi-annually for more than two decades, I think he knows the immune system better than any armchair Skeptic “scientist,”

He certainly has a distinguished past. But in past years, his career has taken a problematic turn – he appears to have hitched himself to a. theory that turned out to be incorrect and is unable to let go. He has had several retractions, most of his recent studies are either small case studies or mice studies, many with very serious flaws, and he has become closely involved in anti-vaccine organizations with problematic behaviors.

Sad end to a serious career.

“Yehuda Shoenfeld is the author of 26 medical textbooks in immunology, some of them cornerstones of clinical practice…”

So what? Much of his research is dubious. One good measure on figuring out which researchers have an agenda and should be avoided is if they spoke at this conference:
http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/speakers.html

More here:
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/10/06/the-2011-vaccine-safety-conference-in-jamaica/

Essentially he is in the pocket of notorious anti-vax folks with lots of money: the Dwoskins

Yehuda Shoenfeld is the author of 26 medical textbooks in immunology,

His first book, IIRC, was fad-diet get-well-quick quackery. The guy’s a hack.
http://www.worldcat.org/title/israeli-fitness-strategy-a-complete-program-of-diet-and-exercise-based-on-the-training-system-of-the-israel-defense-forces/oclc/906349258

And then there was this:

New Trends in Astrodynamics and Applications II : An International Conference. by M. Eric Gershwin, Yehuda Shoenfeld (Editor), Edward Belbruno (Editor), International Conference on New Trends in Astrodynamics and Applications. 2006

some of them cornerstones of clinical practice

O RLY? Which ones?

as editor and founder of at least two medical journals in immunology and as founder of the Autoimmunity Congress

You are putting a lot of faith in his self-penned Wiki page.

in the pocket of notorious anti-vax folks with lots of money: the Dwoskins

It is a capacious pocket, that can also accommodate Celeste McGovern.

“It is a capacious pocket, that can also accommodate Celeste McGovern.”

Maybe she can write fluff pieces for their Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI). If she plays her cards right she might even be invited to the Dwoskin compound in Jamaica.

There’s nothing wrong with big lobby groups hiring professional writers. I do tend to point and laugh, though, when they present themselves as edgy outsiders conducting their own independent research.

True. Though now when she misrepresents science in the comments here I could ask her if she has had her trip to the Dwoskin compound in Jamaica. Obviously she has an agenda, and it is also her job.

Should we not consider (inspired by the revelations of Russell Blaylock) that the Soviets promoted vaccination as a way to infiltrate autoimmune diseases into the West?

If you want “proof”, here’s all the “evidence” that you need:

https://www.facebook.com/sovietvisuals/photos/a.1161108403955402.1073741828.1160495674016675/1764360293630207/?type=3&theater

Mandatory vaccine injections into the heart – what will Paul Offitsky come up with next?

A few samples from the large body of literature linking vaccines to demyelinating disorders of the CNS:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5140871/
“We herein present two cases of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following vaccination against human papilloma virus (HPV). Case 1 experienced diplopia and developed an unstable gait 14 days after a second vaccination of Cervarix. Brain magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) showed an isolated small, demyelinating lesion in the pontine tegmentum. Case 2 experienced a fever and limb dysesthesia 16 days after a second vaccination of Gardasil.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3797690/
Excerpt: “Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) is an immune mediated inflammatory disorder of the central nervous system (CNS) that commonly occurs within one month from antigenic challenge [1]. Despite the majority of ADEM cases being attributed to a post-infectious aetiology, other causes were reported [2]. Post vaccine aetiology was described for 5% of all ADEM cases [2] and several vaccines have been described to be related to this condition [2,3].

Excerpt from
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4186031/
“Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) is an inflammatory, usually monophasic, immune mediate, demyelinating disease of the central nervous system which involves the white matter. ADEM is more frequent in children and usually occurs after viral infections, but may follow vaccinations, bacterial infections, or may occur without previous events. Only 5% of cases of ADEM are preceded by vaccination within one month prior to symptoms onset.”

Excerpt from J Neuroinflammation. 2016; 13: 280.
Published online 2016 Sep 27. doi: 10.1186/s12974-016-0718-0
PMCID: PMC5086042
MOG-IgG in NMO and related disorders: a multicenter study of 50 patients. Part 2: Epidemiology, clinical presentation, radiological and laboratory features, treatment responses, and long-term outcome

“Preceding vaccinations
Disease onset was preceded by revaccination against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, and influenza 2 weeks prior to symptom onset in one patient (for details of this case see part 3 of this series [31]), and by vaccination against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis 13 days prior to symptom onset in a second case; the latter patient developed fever 2 – 3 days before symptoms started. Both patients (1 × male, 1 × female) were vaccinated at adult age (19 and 47 years) and both developed recurrent disease. While the first patient experienced seven relapses involving the the optic nerves (4 ×), spinal cord (5 ×), brain (2 ×), and brainstem (1 ×) within 20 months, which fully responded to IVMP or combined IVMP and plasma exchange (PEX), the second patient developed three attacks (2 × ON, 1 × myelitis and ON) within 6 months, which only partially responded to IVMP, PEX and IA and resulted in an EDSS of 8 at discharge; two of the attacks occurred despite treatment with rituximab.”

The fact that your best support comes from case reports – few in number – that are mostly not about TM, a very poor counter to the large controlled study Orac posted and his other sources (and to the large studies on hpv posted on Skeptical Raptor’s discussion of this case) should get you to reconsider.

If anything, your best evidence reinforces this post’s point. Orac did discuss the existence of case reports in if.

Large epidemiological studies usually trump individual case reports. Antivaxers present case reports because that’s the best that they’ve got. Here’s the thing. Case reports, except under uncommon circumstances, are not good evidence of causation. At best, they are hypothesis generating. They are rarely hypothesis confirming.

@ Dorit
You are confusing absence of evidence with evidence of absence. Most epidemiological studies have low statistical power, when the incidence of side effects is low.

I also noticed that only 1 in 25 of the cases had a vaccine in the 2 weeks prior (1 in 26 of the time).

So a very simplistic statistical analysis makes it appear to be merely a random coincidence.

Post vaccine aetiology was described for 5% of all ADEM cases [2] and several vaccines have been described to be related to this condition [2,3].

Only 5% of cases of ADEM are preceded by vaccination within one month prior to symptoms onset.

I like it when the authors start out like this… admitting that one’s chance of being stricken by ADEM are no higher after vaccination than at any other time, so in the absence of biological plausibility, there is no excuse to apply the label “post-vaccine aetiology” to the tiny minority of cases that do have a vaccine in the recent past. No reason, that is, other than magical thinking, witch-finding logic, and a refusal to accept that bad luck happens.

Parallax: “The first World War was of a short duration.”

Nope! The US’s part in the fighting was short, but everyone else was fighting from 1914 to 1917, with a lot of informal skirmishes dating from 1912. Really, maybe you should quit while you’re ahead, since everything you’ve posted is quantumly wrong. But I suppose I shouldn’t expect a Scientologist escapee from 4 chan to understand anything.

Could the unnaturally high antibody titres induced by HPV vaccination be implicated in this case?

In a review paper published in 2010, Ian Frazer, a co-inventor of the technology enabling the HPV vaccines, states: “HPV immunization induces peak geometric mean antibody titers that are 80- to 100-fold higher than those observed following natural infection [19]. Furthermore, after 18 months, mean vaccine-induced antibody titers remain 10- to 16-fold higher than those recorded with natural infection [19], and these levels appear to be preserved over time, suggesting that immunization may provide long-term protection against infection…” (See page S9.)

HPV ‘immunization’ inducing antibody titres that are 80- to 100-fold higher than those observed following natural infection seems to be a very unnatural response.

Is this a good thing? Does anybody know?

Frazer’s review paper is titled Measuring serum antibody to human papillomavirus following infection or vaccination, published in Gynecologic Oncology 118 (2010) S8-S11, and funded by Merck & Co. Inc. His reference for his high antibody titre comment is a paper by Diane M Harper et al – Efficacy of a bivalent L1 virus-like particle vaccine in prevention of infection with human papillomavirus types 16 and 18 in young women: a randomised controlled trial, published in The Lancet, Vol 364 November 13, 2004, and funded and co-ordinated by GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals.

In their paper Harper et al state: “Geometric mean titres for vaccine-induced antibodies to HPV antibodies were over 80 and 100 times greater than those seen in natural infections with HPV-18 and HPV-16, respectively. Vaccine-induced titres remained substantially raised at 18 months, and were still 10-16 times higher than those seen in women with natural HPV-16 or HPV-18 infections, respectively.” (See page 1763.)

And on page 1764: “We have shown that the HPV-16/18 virus-like particle vaccine adjuvanted with AS04 induces a level of antibody production against HPV-16/18 that is much higher than that induced by natural infection. Previous work has shown that combinations of the adjuvants MPL and aluminium salts induce an enhanced immune response compared with antigen alone or adjuvanted with only aluminium, at both the humoral and cellular level. These findings suggest that the immune responses induced in vaccinated women may provide a longer duration of protection than the protective effects induced by natural HPV infection; however, a protective antibody level has not been established nor is there sufficient data currently available to estimate the duration of vaccine-induced protection.”

Should we be concerned that HPV vaccines produce antibodies over 80 and 100 times greater than those seen in natural infections with HPV-18 and HPV-16 respectively, and which remain substantially raised months after vaccination?

Please note, this is a serious question and requires a serious, educated answer from people with the verifiable expertise to respond on the matter.

PS: I’m also forwarding this query to other individuals who are accountable for their influence on vaccination policy and practice.

Elizabeth Hart
https://over-vaccination.net/

Could the unnaturally high antibody titres induced by HPV vaccination be implicated in this case?

Let’s take a look.

And on page 1764: “We have shown that the HPV-16/18 virus-like particle vaccine adjuvanted with AS04….

See the problem yet?

What’s the problem?

Colton received Gardasil, which isn’t adjuvanted with AS04, making this part of your copy-and-paste routine apropos of nothing. I not surprised in the slightest that a STAT commenter characterized your entries as spamming, ‘Elizabeth Hart’.

As mentioned in my previous comment, in regards to HPV ‘immunisation’ inducing antibody titres that are 80- to 100- fold higher than those observed following natural infection, Ian Frazer (2010)[1] cites a paper by Diane Harper et al regarding the bivalent HPV vaccine (2004)[2], i.e. presumably Cervarix. (This study was funded and coordinated by GlaxoSmithKline Bioglogicals.)

It appears Frazer generalises about high antibody titres after HPV vaccination, i.e. Gardasil and Cervarix, from Harper et al’s paper about Cervarix.[2]

In a later review paper (2008)[3], Diane Harper refers to high antibody titres after both vaccines, i.e. “the peak response to vaccination was robustly 100-200-fold higher than natural infection titers for both vaccines in neutralizing type-specific antibody titers for both HPV 16 and 18”, although in a later paper (2009)[4] Harper says peak titre after Gardasil vaccination is 104-fold higher than natural infection for HPV 16, and 27-fold higher than natural infection titres for HPV 18.

In essence though, it appears HPV vaccination with both vaccines creates a much higher antibody response than natural infection, and from my layperson’s perspective I wonder if there is any downside to this unnatural response?

In her 2008[3] review paper, Harper also states: “Despite both vaccines having a 100% seroconversion 1 month after three doses of vaccine, the mechanism of immunogenicity from a scientific perspective is poorly understood. The measure of antibody induction by geometric mean titers (GMTs) is dependent on the assay system used, and is not comparable between HPV types within one manufacturer or for identical HPV types between manufacturers.”

It is concerning that the novel virus-like particle (VLP) vaccine products Gardasil and Cervarix have been fast-tracked globally, when “the mechanism of immunogenicity from a scientific perspective is poorly understood”.

In her 2008[3] review paper, Harper states: “…both vaccines contain a proprietary adjuvant system to improve the immunologic response to the VLP antigens. The adjuvant system, AS04, in Cervarix contains both an aluminium salt and a toll-like receptor-4 agonist (monophosphoryl lipid A); the adjuvant system in Gardasil contains an aluminium salt called aluminium hydroxyphosphate sulfate. Clinical trials in humans show that the HPV 16/18 VLPs adjuvanted with AS04 induce a significantly greater initial antibody response than do the HPV16/18 VLPs adjuvanted with aluminium hydroxide alone, and this superior response continues for at least 4 years…Experiments in mice show that the Merck proprietary amorphous aluminium hydroxyphosphate sulfate used in Gardasil induces a greater initial antibody response to HPV16 VLPs than does the aluminium hydroxide adjuvant alone…”

A VacZine Analytics press release titled “GSK and Cervarix – is AS04 a double edged sword?” (2007)[5] says the novel adjuvant AS04 contained in Cervarix “is a combination of standard aluminium hydroxide and the new component, monophospholipid A (MPL). MPL is a derivative of the lipid A molecule found in gram-negative bacteria and is considered one of the most potent immune system stimulants known”.

Merck’s proprietary amorphous aluminium hydroxyphosphate sulfate used in Gardasil also appears to be more potent than aluminium hydroxide adjuvant alone.[3]

Harper says the purpose of the adjuvant “is to prolong the immune response for as long as possible with the smallest amount of antigen (VLP) possible”.[4]

Again, I register my concern that the novel Gardasil and Cervarix VLP HPV vaccine products have been fast-tracked around the world, particularly as “the mechanism of immunogenicity from a scientific perspective is poorly understood”.

If children and their parents were properly informed of the unnaturally high antibody titre induced by both the novel aluminium adjuvanted Gardasil and Cervarix vaccine products, and that scientists such as Diane Harper admit the mechanism of immunogenicity of these products is poorly understood from a scientific perspective, I wonder if they would consent to this still experimental medical intervention?

Elizabeth Hart
https://over-vaccination.net/

References:
1. Ian H Frazer. Measuring serum antibody to human papillomavirus following infection or vaccination. Gynecologic Oncology 118 (2010) S8-S11.
2. Diane M Harper et al. Efficacy of a bivalent L1 virus-like particle vaccine in prevention of infection with human papillomavirus types 16 and 18 in young women: a randomised controlled trial. Lancet, 2004; 364: 1757-65.
3. Diane M Harper. Prophylactic human papillomavirus vaccines to prevent cervical cancer: review of the Phase II and III trials. Therapy (2008) 5(3), 313-324.
4. Diane M Harper. Currently Approved Prophylactic HPV Vaccines. Expert Rev Vaccines. 2009; 8 (12): 1663-1679).
5. GSK and Cervarix – is AS04 a double edged sword? Press Release. VacZine Analytics. Posted on 19 Dec 2007.

‘Narad’, you’ve linked to an article on STAT, published in January 2017, a year ago now, i.e. “Vaccine critic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he will chair Trump’s vaccine safety panel”: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/trump-vaccine-critic-robert-f-kennedy-jr/comment-page-2/#comment-140598

I left many detailed fully-referenced comments relevant to HPV vaccination safety on that STAT article, including questions about the unnaturally high antibody titres induced by HPV vaccination, and information challenging the evidence supporting multiple doses of these vaccine products.

As is often the case with comments threads on vaccination articles, there was little serious engagement with the important points I raised.

Rather, other commenters such as ‘Brian’ and ‘Jay Kanta’ seemed determined to belittle my carefully considered arguments and shut the conversation down. For example ‘Brian’ demanded “If you could stop with the spamming, that’d be great….” There was no indication these people had the expertise to respond to my queries.

The authors of the STAT article, Sheila Kaplan and Dylan Scott, also displayed no interest in the information I provided. I suppose, like much of the US media at the time, they were more focused on ridiculing the notion of a Trump-initiated panel on vaccine safety and scientific integrity.

Incidentally, recently I also left a comment about unnaturally high antibody titres induced by HPV vaccination on the Skeptical Raptor blog article “Gardasil killed Colton Berrett? The evidence does not support this claim”: https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/gardasil-killed-colton-berrett-evidence-no/

My comment has disappeared from public view. On my Disqus record the comment is marked as “Detected as spam”. Was my comment reported as spam? This appears to be a common tactic used on public forums on vaccination articles to censor public questioning of vaccination policy and practice.

I register my concern that the novel Gardasil and Cervarix VLP HPV vaccine products have been fast-tracked

You, Laura and your fellow anti-vaxxers keep using that term. I do not think that it means what you think it means.

FDA customarily begins review of years-old preclinical data only when the final application–including many years of clinical data–is finally submitted. Before electronic submission was possible, submission of those data sets required backing a semi tractor-trailer full of documents up to the FDA loading dock: there’s a lot of information. In an effort to respond to popular and political pressure, FDA can begin to review the many thousands of pages of preclinical data before the final submission of the clinical data. This faciltates timely review, but it in no way compromises the review process, since the same time and effort is devoted to review of preclinical and clinical data regardless of when the review process for those data sets begins. Why do you repeat a nonsensical meme to suggest otherwise?

Well you certainly wouldn’t want a vaccine that produces low titers, now would you? And since many people don’t clear HPV infection and it goes on to produce warts or cancer, then doesn’t it make sense to have a vaccine with a robust response?
It’s not like the antibodies are doing anything. They’re hanging out, until they bump into something that matches.
Take care in how much you anthropomorphize the immune system.

One more before I go for good, there have been several rulings that TM was caused by a vaccine with compensation payouts. As much as I would love to stay here and forever bang my head against brick walls, I would rather not. I have Dr. Who episodes I need to catch up on and I enjoy the company of parents and doctors who get it.

Nonsense JANUARY 21, 2018 AT 11:29 AM
I’m out of here.

Nonsense JANUARY 21, 2018 AT 11:49 AM
One more before I go for good, there have been several rulings that TM was caused by a vaccine with compensation payouts.

Nonsense JANUARY 21, 2018 AT 12:05 PM
It’s a useless vaccine that does more harm than good and a lot of people know it.

Third flounce lucky?

Nonsense. We know what happened to Colton and why he took his life and more importantly his family and his doctors know.

HPV represents the most cases before the vaccine courts at the moment

VAERS reports as of March 2017 for HPV vaccine:
Total Adverse Events‎: ‎59,092 Disabled‎: ‎1,727
Deaths‎: ‎315

and these numbers represent a small percentage of cases that actually get reported.

TM can occur several days or even months after vaccination

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19880568

Most children who have had severe adverse reactions to the vaccine have had it after the second or third shot.

“The incidence of adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than the rate of cervical cancer” Dr. S. Lee, pathologist. The routine pap smear is a better way to deal with the problem. Out of the hundreds of strains of HPV, the vaccine targeted two strains only. As Dr. Lee mentioned, others strains have come in and taken their place and these new strains being created by the vaccine are more prevalent and more virulent. HPV increase has actually risen since the introduction of the vaccine. If the HPV vaccine is given to a woman who already has HPV in a harmless state it may activate the condition and accelerate cancer. Well over 90% of all cases of HPV goes away on its own and does not cause any health issues. This controversial vaccine is simply not worth the risk and many parents are opting out for their children for valid reasons.

Denial articles like this are a disservice to the memory of a beautiful and brave boy who had his life destroyed by Gardasil and wanted his message out there and tragically he is not alone. Denial articles like this are also infuriating to parents of vaccine injured children who know what happened to their kids.

You know what is really disturbing? Plastering your opinionated blogs all over the internet. How does that honor Colton or his family and what they wanted to share with the public about his story and what they wanted the public to know? You are trampling on his grave doing this and disrespecting his memory. This was not Colton’s message. He wanted to warn other kids about the possible dangers of this vaccine. That was his message. Honor it whether you agree or not. Don’t say you are spreading the truth when you really don’t know what that is and just want your own view heard. Sad.

“Plastering your opinionated blogs all over the internet.”

First point: you are responding to yourself, so it seems you are accusing yourself of plastering some blog all over the internet.

Second point: It is one blog, two articles and if it is plastered all over the internet it most probably by others who are mentioning it on the twitters and face stuff.

Get over yourself.

This was not Colton’s message. He wanted to warn other kids about the possible dangers of this vaccine.

Suicide seems to be an unlikely way to accomplish this imaginary messaging.

TM can occur several days or even months after vaccination

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19880568

Most children who have had severe adverse reactions to the vaccine have had it after the second or third shot.

Silly me, I forgot to note that this Shoenfeld entry doesn’t even mention HPV, or anything I’ve noticed about “the second or third shot.”

In 1982, the Centers for Disease Control, the Food and Drug Administration, and the manufacturer created a surveillance system to monitor adverse events occurring after immunization with HBV vaccine. In the 3 years between 1982 and 1985, an estimated 850,000 persons received the vaccine. During that period, a total of 41 neurologic adverse events were reported (including four TM cases), half of them occurred after the first of three required vaccine doses.[32]

This is the only use of the word “dose.” Well played, Marge.

I see. Schoenfeld and her co-workers searched 39 years of health statistics and could only find 37 cases of ALTM that they could even try to link to vaccines. And Gardasil wasn’t even available most of those years.

The NVICP shows 124 compensations for the HPV vaccine for 101 million doses administered. That’s a little more than a 1 in a million risk.

Some of those cases may not have been caused by the vaccine but the Court compensated them anyway.

Anyone can report anything to VAERS. The claims are accepted so they can be researched, but they are meaningless for doing statistical analysis.

For comparison, we had over 12,000 New cases of cervical cancer last year and over 4000 deaths.

Did you also tell Melissa Curtin, James Lyons Weiller and the others who beat Orac to the punch that their articles were a disservice to Colton’s memory?

I understand that you would rather the claims of harm from the vaccine remained unanswered, however ill founded. Since the cost of that would be people harmed and potentially killed by HPV infection, I don’t think we can do that. However hard it is for you to face the evidence, as described in this post, people deserve to know that the claims that the vaccine caused the boy’s paralysis are not well founded.

Dorit, spare me with your arrogant patronizing posturing. The evidence is starting to mount that it is not HPV that causes cervical cancer but EBV. You are part of the problem and I’m not interested in anything you or your cohorts have to say at the moment.

There is extensive evidence that HPV causes cervical cancer. Here is a review of that evidence. http://www.kegel.com/hpv/cancer/

HPV vaccines can prevent infections with high risk strains. Whether you like it or not, that can prevent deaths and cancers in large numbers.

Using an ill-founded claim of harm to try to scare people from using the vaccine is problematic.

And I don’t see it as respecting the boy’s memory to use his story to create risk. Whatever the family believes, the evidence suggests the link to the vaccine is very unlikely.

…putting the blame where Colton and his family placed it…on the vaccine.

Just because people fervently believe something it doesn’t follow that it is true. The evidence that the HPV vaccine administered to Colton caused his Transverse Myelitis is not only circumstantial but quite dubious.

VAERS reports as of March 2017 for HPV vaccine:
Total Adverse Events‎: ‎59,092 Disabled‎: ‎1,727
Deaths‎: ‎315

Reports. Not rulings, REPORTS.
By the way, the PubMed article you posted had Yehuda Shoenfeld, a known antivaxxer, as an author.
Your quote was by Dr. Sin Hang Lee. Orac has written on Lee’s mendacity before. Use the Search function up top.
All you have is circumstantial evidence implicating the vaccine in Colton’s condition.

In other words, you didn’t complain to them because you agree with them, even though they started plastering their opinions all over the internet much sooner!

EBV is associated with cancers, but different ones from HPV as far as I could see.

Perhaps we need a vaccine against it too?
It will be tough since 80% of the population over 30 are permanently infected.

Dr. Bernard Dalbergue, a former physician working with Merck, the manufacturer of Gardasil

Ah, Dalbergue, the guy who never worked for Merck. The guy who worked for a minor drug distribution company (Martin & Harris) until Merck bought it, then needed a new job, which turned out to be “making stuff up for the anti-vax cause”.

The evidence is starting to mount that it is not HPV that causes cervical cancer but EBV.

Given the awkward attempt to land the flounce, I suppose this isn’t going to be presented. All I’m seeing is coinfection with EBV, leaving HPV as a necessary condition.

The evidence is starting to mount that it is not HPV that causes cervical cancer but EBV.

I hadn’t come across this particular fantasy before. Is it already Received Knowledge within the loonisphere?

I hadn’t come across this particular fantasy before. Is it already Received Knowledge within the loonisphere?

Marge didn’t say what it was starting to “mount.”

His story will be heard in the testimony of both his parents and those medical care professionals who treated him in Vaccine Court as part of their rights under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Yes, his story should be heard in the US Court with a published opinion.

Surely all of the evidence will be presented there for the connection to a vaccine. Except for one little wrinkle: he committed suicide.

Unfortunately he is not the first teenager on this planet to take their own life. One of my youngest’s friends decided to go that route. It happened to a nephew of a co-worker. It happens much too often.

It is disgusting you ghouls are taking advantage of that.

Especially since you ghouls planted the idea that a vaccine caused something that happens often enough without that particular vaccine. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

By the way, everyone should be asking how their NVICP case is going. This means that the family needs to go past blame and actually provide actual evidence. Due to actual science, this may be difficult. Just ask Brian Hooker (he obviously ignored warnings from actual doctors):
https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2002vv0472-118-0

What greater case against vaccines do you need than the countless young women who are left incapacitated—and often dead—by the HPV inoculation?

Apparently, these lost lives aren’t enough to fully persuade you, even as another teen was left dead after taking the shot, this time passing away in her sleep.

19-year-old Jasmin Soriat was just one of many youngsters being instructed by their doctors and the medical establishment to take the HPV vaccine.

Placing her trust in the people who claim to make health their top priority, Jasmin accepted the inoculation…

The 19-year-old was later found dead, passing away overnight in her sleep from respiratory failure.

Dr. Johan Missliwetz, a forensic pathologist was assigned by the court to perform a “second autopsy” on Jasmin’s body.

“I couldn’t find a reasonable cause of death but had two suspicions,” said Dr. Missliwetz, “One had to do with vaccination.”

But the medical mafia does not take kindly to “experts” in the field calling into question their highly-profitable products—and vaccines are no exception.

Upon reporting his findings to “drug regulation authorities”, Missliwetz says he began receiving numerous phone calls from “senior members of the medical establishment” attempting to “intervene” and prevent him from speaking publicly about his autopsy on Jasmin—specifically to avoid implicating the HPV vaccine in her death.

The Dr. took an “early retirement” after this whole ordeal.

As the evidence—and the lives—continue to pile up in the case against the HPV vaccine Gardasil, some experts are already convinced that this shot is not only ineffective in treating cervical cancer but that it is, in certain cases, lethal.

“The full extent of the Gardasil scandal needs to be assessed,” says Dr. Bernard Dalbergue, a former physician working with Merck, the manufacturer of Gardasil, “everyone knew when this vaccine was released on the American market that it would prove to be worthless.”

Dr. Dalbergue adds:

“Diane Harper, a major opinion leader in the United States, was one of the first to blow the whistle, pointing out the fraud and scam of it all.

“I predict that Gardasil will become the greatest medical scandal of all time because at some point in time, the evidence will add up to prove that this vaccine, technical and scientific feat that it may be, has absolutely no effect on cervical cancer and that all the very many adverse effects which destroy lives and even kill, serve no other purpose than to generate profit for the manufacturers.

“Gardasil is useless and costs a fortune! In addition, decision-makers at all levels are aware of it! Cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, paralysis of the lower limbs, vaccine-induced MS and vaccine-induced encephalitis can be found, whatever the vaccine.”

According to the Independent, countless cases of young girls debilitated or left dead by the HPV vaccine have surfaced.

In one of their articles, they describe the 131 women who revealed their own personal HPV inoculation horror stories, describing how their lives were “turned upside down.”

How many lives must be lost before a critical mass is reached to finally blow the lid off the pot?

Who are the real ghouls?

You should be ashamed of yourself Chris. We know why Colton took his life. Colton knew what happened to him. His family knew what happened to him and his doctors did. No doubt he got very sick of people like you trying to tell him otherwise. I will continue to spread his message regardless of what people like you have to say on the issue. Your opinion does not matter at all.

Chris, do you want to mean that his suicide could be a coincidence, not related to his condition? You may be right, we don’t have any “scientific” evidence for it. But saying that, because we don’t have scientific evidence for a relationship, this means that the two events are not related, this is unscientific.

We know why Colton took his life. Colton knew what happened to him.

In the Middle Ages, people “knew” that witches cursing them was a cause of bad luck. Until comparatively recently, people “knew” that sharks liked to hunt humans. A lot of people I’ve met “know” that Columbus faced resistance because people then believed the Earth was flat (they knew it was round).
No matter what you believe, the evidence will have the last word. And the evidence so far is against the claim that the HPV Vaccination induced Colton’s Transverse Myelitis.

“Who are the ghouls” proves to be just another copy-paste spambot, probably Nonsense / Marge with yet another sockpuppet nym.

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I’d prefer a Pubmed reference, but this addresses several of the issues directly.

For instance, there is no consistent pattern among the 32 reported deaths studied a few years ago to suggest there might be some mechanism by which the HPV vaccine is triggering a reaction which leads to death. It is truly sad when a young person like Jasmin dies suddenly and unexpectedly. But for now there is no evidence to think that Prevnar was the cause.

Even Dr Harper thinks the vaccine is safe, although she has questions about the relative risk-benefit of vaccinating vs regular Pap smears for detection.

And even with detection, thousands of women die every year from cervical cancer.

I would very much like to prevent that.

and Smut Clyde is your real name? Well your mother did a wonderful job picking that for you. Squirrelelite is a lovely name too. Orac? from Dr. Who? who knows full well that TM can come from a vaccine. Even the Mayo clinic admits that. Unlike you cyber bullies and CDC shills who clique together on all these boards to make fun of those who disagree with you, I have been in touch with Colton’s family and what you are doing is not only disrespectful to the family, it is a complete lie. Vaccinesworkblog should know better, she posted the statement from the family on her board. Shame on all of you. I’m out of here. 😛

I don’t think anyone here doubts that at this point, the family sincerely believes the vaccine caused the boy’s paralysis. And nobody would doubt this is an extremely difficult time for them. Doesn’t change the data described here and in the Skeptical Raptor piece. The data does not suggest HPV vaccines cause TM. Belief doesn’t change that.

We are back at the point where anti-vaccine activists are using a story with no real evidence and against the evidence to try and scare people from protecting children against an infection that causes cancer. Calling that out and providing facts, as Orac did, is a valuable public service.

People deserve better than to get HPV related cancers because of this story.

It’s a useless vaccine that does more harm than good and a lot of people know it. There have also been several rulings that TM was caused by a vaccine with compensation payouts. The median range for women with cervical cancer is 49. The vast majority who do get it get it much later in life. The greatest majority of cases happen to women in their 50’s with even 15% happening to women aged 65 or older. It is very rare under 20, so why give it to 11 and 12 year olds when it won’t even last in their system and wear off after a few years? I agree with Dr. S. Lee pathologist, “The incidence of adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than the rate of cervical cancer”. That was certainly the case for Colton who was never in danger of getting cervical cancer in the first place.

Nonsense JANUARY 21, 2018 AT 11:29 AM
I’m out of here.

Nonsense JANUARY 21, 2018 AT 12:05 PM

Worst flounce ever.

,I agree with Dr. S. Lee pathologist

The dude with his own worthless proprietary HPV test? The one who wanted everyone to abandon existing tests and prevention for HPV, so they would have to license his own worthless test instead? The grifter who has moved on to the “chronic Lyme disease” scam?

Dr. Bernard Dalbergue, a former physician working with Merck, the manufacturer of Gardasil

Ah, Dalbergue, the guy who never worked for Merck. The guy who worked for a minor drug distribution company (Martin & Harris) until Merck bought it, then needed a new job, which turned out to be “making stuff up for the anti-vax cause”.

“Shame on all of you. I’m out of here.”

Shame on you for denying how common suicide is among teenagers:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_05.pdf

Also, too many young people die of genetic heart disorders, of which there are many. Many have known to cause death while sleeping:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/4/e1094.long

Blaming Colton’s and other deaths on vaccines when there are much more obvious reasons is shameful.

I see. Schoenfeld and her co-workers searched 39 years of health statistics and could only find 37 cases of ALTM that they could even try to link to vaccines. And Gardasil wasn’t even available most of those years.

And they include OPV and MMR, which aren’t adjuvanted, despite this being the punchline of the abstract.

Their reference 29 also appears to be bogus:

HBV vaccine is a genetically engineered recombinant vaccine. HBV vaccine is an efficient and relatively safe vaccine used worldwide for the last 27 years. Nonetheless it has been associated with many adverse events, and is the second most common vaccine reported to the USA Vaccine Adverse Events Report System.[29]

This points to the following:

29 CDC website.http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/table.htm

This should be obvious by simple inspection, but that table doesn’t talk about VAERS, at least for the relevant time period.

It gets better:

A pathogenic proof of causality was accepted only in the case of post-OPV TM

To wit:

Poliovirus infection is one of the most prevalent causes of TM and can present as
TM in between 1 : 125 and 1 : 800 cases. Therefore, there is a biological plausibility in suggesting a causal relationship between OPV and TM

Hence, adjuvants.

Reference 32 is to F.E. Shaw et al. (1988). Supposedly listing four cases of TM subsequent to HBV.

Checking the paper itself, we find that Shaw et al. had extracted these claims from post-marketing surveillance in order to dismiss them: in three of the four cases, the TM had developed so many months after vaccination that it was ludicrous to look for a connection. Sixteen weeks after the second injection, in one case (their Figure 1). The number of cases was no higher than one would expect in an unvaccinated population, so clearly chance events.

According to Shoenfeld et al., “In these post-HBV cases, symptoms rose within days to 3 months following inoculation.[28,30–34]”

Is 16 weeks “within days to 3 months”? Why, no, I rather think it isn’t, so Shoenfeld et al. are either innumerate or liars.

Did you also tell James Lyons Weiller that their articles were a disservice to Colton’s memory?

Colton’s mother published his article on her FB page so obviously she does not see it as a disservice but the truth.

Nonsense (an apt username if ever there was one): “The median range for women with cervical cancer is 49. The vast majority who do get it get it much later in life. The greatest majority of cases happen to women in their 50’s with even 15% happening to women aged 65 or older. It is very rare under 20, so why give (the vaccine) to 11 and 12 year olds”

Between a quarter million and a million women are diagnosed with precancerous cervical dysplasia (overwhelmingly due to HPV infection) every year in the U.S., which is a major reason why it’s important to give the vaccine as early as possible, numbskull.

“in 2015 it is estimated that cervical cancer will be diagnosed in 12,900 women in the United States, and approximately 4,100 women will die of the disease. Currently, an estimated 249,496 women are living with cervical cancer in the United States.”

http://www.cancernetwork.com/cancer-management/cervical-cancer

Smut, that says it all. Dangerous Bacon another apt name. The vaccine is practically useless and potentially dangerous to kids under 20. Name calling is exactly what I expect from this lot. Chris, I think it is obvious why Colton took his life. He was depressed with his condition and felt like he was a burden to his family. His life was taken from him after the HPV vaccine was administered. I guess you must think it is shameful then that the family is blaming it on the vaccine. Much more obvious reasons? Like what? He took his life because he couldn’t get a date to the prom? What about these kids and their parents? What “other” explanation can you come up with for them? There was a cold bug going around? Gardasil shot and then they got sick. 2 + 2 = 4. https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/lives-130-teenage-girls-ruined-7013697

Why do I bother? You won’t get it unless it happens to you or one of your own children. Going to a site with supportive, understanding parents, doctors and scientists now. I know I will never find that in here or the other dens you frequent. Carry on with your smut.

I think it is obvious why Colton took his life. He was depressed with his condition and felt like he was a burden to his family.

What happened to the “sending a message” part, O failed flouncer?

HPV causes tens of thousands of cancers and thousands of deaths each year in the U.S. alone. I don’t think preventing those is useless. It’s also been studied, again, in millions. There is no evidence it is dangerous. In fact, the evidence suggests it’s one of our safest vaccines.

“Chris, I think it is obvious why Colton took his life.”

After four years, he emulated a significant chunk of teenagers. Many of whom come down with things like mono, and feel terrible.

Do keep us apprised of how their claim with NVICP goes. Oh, wait, you can’t because it means not sticking the flounce… again.

Teenagers get sick with things like mono, some auto-immune disorders, heart disease, etc. Other teenagers become depressed. Neither is associated with vaccines.

A last little bit of nonsense from Nonsense:

One more before I go for good, there have been several rulings that TM was caused by a vaccine with compensation payouts.

List them. Give us the case numbers. If you choose to come back and yap some more, that is.

here ya go Frosty…2/2/2016 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 14-1052V $245,750
11/17/2015 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 15-92V $90,000
9/23/2015 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 14-693V $85,000
7/7/2015 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 14-1210V $165,000
4/15/2015 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 15-0039V $100,000
4/13/2015 Flu Vaccine Transvese Myelitis Case No. 14-368V $260,000
3/18/2015 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis, Multiple Sclerosis Case No. 14-395V $131,000
11/14/2014 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 12-879V $100,000
10/8/2014 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis, Guillain Barre Case No. 10-834V $856,300
5/28/2014 Tdap Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 13-791V $90,000
5/28/2014 Tdap Transverse Myelitis Case No. 13-791V $90,000
12/18/2013 Flu Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 12-445V $325,000
3/22/2013 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 12-308V $370,000
10/22/2012 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 11-242V $250,000
9/28/2012 Influenza Vaccine Transverse Myelitis Case No. 09-144V $600,000
6/12/2012 Meningococcal Vaccine Transverse Myelitis; Multiple Sclerosis Case No. /08-243V $1 Million
2/12/2012 Meningococcal Vaccine Transverse Myelitis, Multiple Sclerosis Case No. 08-243V $340,000

there is actually quite a long list but I’ll let you do the digging…see ya

I’ll borrow this from another board…In Vaccine Court, if a subset of injuries occur with specific vaccines in a certain period of time after administration, the Court will rule that the vaccine caused the injury so long as no other cause of injury is found. In the case of HPV vaccine, it is often the latter doses and not the first dose that causes health issues. It is completely possible that Colton developed TM after his third vaccine dose. What boggles my mind is that all of you refuse to even go there….flouncing and bouncing away…..

In Vaccine Court, if a subset of injuries occur with specific vaccines in a certain period of time after administration, the Court will rule that the vaccine caused the injury so long as no other cause of injury is found.

So, you don’t understand what “settlement” means, either?

I was feeding the beast and I didn’t even realize it!

“When you engage in vaccine risk denialists like Dorit Reiss, and so-called ‘Orac’, and others who refuse to acknowledge the full body of science showing the ill effects of vaccines on some people, you are feeding them. They NEED you. On Twitter, on Facebook, anywhere. Every reply you give them amplifies their voices.

In fact, their nightmare is that no one responds to them.

Let them enjoy their collective mediocrity in their little echo chamber.”

No more food from me beasties!

Buh Bye 🙂

One more before I go for good, there have been several rulings that TM was caused by a vaccine with compensation payouts.

List them. Give us the case numbers.

There’s something less than a handful. Not all of these search results were successful, and the ones I looked at seemed to use a liberal approach to the Althen standard, viz., they’re old.

I’m going to guess that anyone who quotes this “The routine pap smear is a better way to deal with the problem” has never actually experienced getting pap smears.

In addition, I fail to see how diagnosing a problem after it has occurred is better than preventing the problem in the first place.

“We have this vaccine to prevent prostate cancer, but we decided that a routine digital examination is the better way to deal with the problem.”

I have yearly shots against Influenza infections since 1992. And I am sure, that I will die within one year after my last influenza shot.
But I am very confident, that my future death is not CAUSED by the influenza vaccine.

Everyone, who is vaccinated will die after vaccination. Those who are unvaccinated will also die,but earlier

October 2017:
HPV VACCINE ASSOCIATED WITH CELIAC DISEASE
“After taking multiple testing into account and conducting self-controlled case series analyses, coeliac disease (RR 1.56 [95% confidence interval 1.29–1.89]) was the only remaining association.”
“Human papillomavirus vaccination of adult women and risk of autoimmune and neurological diseases”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.12694/full

Apparently, authors are unaware of the gut as origin of autoimmune and neurological disease. Vaccine injury as gut-brain phenomenon is a mechanism never before focused on in vaccine safety.
#microbiomevaccinesafetyproject
https://www.facebook.com/thegutclub23/photos/a.1277925552233310.1073741828.1225613454131187/2142900052402518/?type=3&theater
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/195/10/4668

In your first link, from the conclusion: “Unmasking of conditions at vaccination visits is a plausible explanation for the increased risk associated with qHPV in this study because coeliac disease is underdiagnosed in Scandinavian populations.” No conclusion of causation connection.

Here is a discussion of the literature on HPV vaccines and autoimmune conditions, which by and large found no link.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/868825

Dorit, I don’t believe a risk ratio of 1.56 for Celiac disease can be explained away so easily by the authors based on office visits. Meanwhile, evidence is mounting rapidly that autoimmunity is of gut origin, including demyelinating disorders such as transverse myelitis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5364240/

There is now plenty of research available regarding demyelination regulated by gut microbiota and the gut-brain axis.

You’re way out of your league here, Dorit. And, frankly, behaving like a child in denial of obvious wrongdoing.

I understand that you do not believe it. The authors suggested it, and it’s a very plausible explanation for what is not a huge rate. So even that link does not show causation.

In addition, you are putting together a lot of things that are very different. Celiac disease is not TM, the paper you linked to does not support a general “autoimmunity is of gut origin”, and none of this has to do with HPV vaccines and the large studies that asked if it causes autoimmune disease and so far found no link.

It’s unclear what you think was wrongdoing, and you have certainly not provided any support to a link between HPV vaccines and TM.

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blockquote>I don’t believe a risk ratio of 1.56 for Celiac disease can be explained away so easily by the authors based on office visits.

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blockquote>

“The observed association of a 56% increased risk of coeliac disease after qHPV vaccination was strong, and the increase was strikingly similar in both risk periods after vaccination. We did not see any evidence of consistency of effect because the increase was only observed in Denmark.

Hey Narad, Swedish data showed 21% increased risk, still significant. Flora balance is a geographic and racial issue.

I wonder how results would turn out in Finland where autoimmune disease such as type-1 diabetes is high, likely due to high Bacteriodes. Interesting that Finland invented the baby box to combat skyrocketing SIDS.

Thanks for chiming-in.

Swedish data showed 21% increased risk, still significant

From Table 3: Odds ratio for Swedish data only: 1.21 (0.87–1.68).
This is a definition of “significant” with which I am unfamiliar.

I believe the Danes prefer akvavit, but Uncle Smut would be the authority there.

And now the bottle in the freezer is calling to me…

“High-alkaline water” = “water of life” = “aqua-vit”. Hmm, decisions. Taffel-akvavit tonight, or the Jubilaeums?
Bommerlunder Akvavit is also rather tasty despite coming from the wrong side of the border.

Yes, well, I grudgingly approve of Linie too.
When Captain Arne Rinnan of the M/V Tampa isn’t transporting casks of Linie back and forth between Oslo and Australia to make it drinkable (apparently that isn’t the only cargo carried on the freighter, but it’s what matters), he is rescuing refugees and pissing off the Australian government. So every time you drink Linie, you are celebrating these important humanitarian principles.

That pairs really well with an HPV study among adult women that didn’t say what you said it did. Oh, wait.

Hmmm . . . HPV vaccine strongly associated with Celiac disease which manifests as transverse myelitis. Can you say microbial predisposition to vaccine injury? Where are the protective microbiota? Don’t ask Orac the Sterile, he knows not.
#microbiomevaccinesafetyproject

Notice you’re trying to use a problematic interpretation of a study of HPV vaccines in women – one which was already pointed out to you is extremely weak as evidence that the vaccine cause celiac disease – in conjunction with a single case study in an infant – not a woman – of TM, with no vaccine involved. Basically, you’re trying to tie a set of unconnected things to claim HPV vaccines cause TM – in the face of large-scale monitoring and studies of HPV that didn’t find any such link.

It’s extremely unconvincing.

Dorit, if you were ever breastfed, you might have a chance of grasping how profound this construct of microbial predisposition to adverse vaccine reaction is . . . would you care to discuss colonization in the womb?

Hmmm . . . HPV vaccine strongly associated with Celiac disease which manifests as transverse myelitis.

Compliments on building two colossal failures into one sentence while making bee noises.

“Hmmm . . . HPV vaccine strongly associated with Celiac disease which manifests as transverse myelitis. Can you say microbial predisposition to vaccine injury?”

Hmmm…can you say ludicrously desperate attempt to connect faint and widely separated dots?

Simple minds such as those in the vaccine industry who don’t factor microbial predisposition to vaccine response including adverse reaction would view this hypothesis as “faint and widely separated dots.” But for anyone spending an ounce of their intelligence studying gut-brain axis it makes complete sense and the published research backs it strongly.

But for anyone spending an ounce of their intelligence studying gut-brain axis it makes complete sense

No, it doesnt:

“HPV vaccine strongly associated with Celiac disease”

The study you cited is in adult women and doesn’t even conclude what you insist that it does.

“which manifests as transverse myelitis”

Here you have the only known report of an infant (IIRC) who presented with TM and was then found to have celiac disease, prompting the authors to recommend that the former be screened for the latter. Not only is it not “a manifestation,” the lone case went the other way around.

Shoenfeld cites Bhat et al., who just cite Shoenfeld.

The 2010 paper by Bhat et al. was published in Autoimmunity Reviews, which is Shoenfeld’s stovepipe, so citing his studies goes with the territory.
Also “et al.” there includes Gershwin as main and corresponding author, and Gershwin is Shoenfeld’s partner as co-Editor-in-Chief of Autoimmunity Reviews.

And of course that issue of Autoimmunity Reviews was devoted to presentations from the 2010 Congress on Autoimmunity (President, Yehuda Shoenfeld).

The 2011 Agmon-Levin / Shoenfeld paper — with that supportive citation of Bhat et al. — was an overview of the Congress, taking the opportunity to pimp ASIA (vaccinations mumble mumble MMF mumble mumble Gulf War Syndrme mumble mumble breast implants) again, because why miss a opportunity for self-promotion? Published in Cell Mol Immunol where Gershwin is Associate Editor-in-Chief.
If the intellectual milieu were any more inbred, their brains would have hemophilia.

for anyone spending an ounce of their intelligence studying gut-brain axis

It possibly depends on which end of that axis you use for your intelligence.

The 2011 Agmon-Levin / Shoenfeld paper

Of the 65 References, 14 are co-authored by Shoenfeld and 11 by Gershwin. Nine by Agmon-Levin. No back remains unscratched, and no log unrolled.

There’s plenty of discussion about vaccination in that paper (Transverse Myelitis as Manifestation of Celiac Disease in a Toddler):
“In children, 60% of TM cases occur due to an autoimmune phenomenon after infection or vaccination.8”

Citation 8 (Transverse Myelitis Elliot M. Frohman, M.D., Ph.D., and Dean M. Wingerchuk, M.D) provides deeper acknowledgement vaccination can cause TM including discussion of bowel dysfunction:
“In the acute and chronic phases of transverse myelitis, bowel dysfunction is characterized by constipation and the risk of impaction, difficulty with bowel evacuation from the rectal vault, and in some cases incontinence, which is usually as- sociated with an inadequate bowel program to reduce constipation and control the timing of defecation.30”

There’s plenty of discussion about vaccination in that paper (Transverse Myelitis as Manifestation of Celiac Disease in a Toddler):
“In children, 60% of TM cases occur due to an autoimmune phenomenon after infection or vaccination.8”

You’re not very good with English conjunctions (or disjunctions), are you? Anyway, let’s back up:

“In general, TM may be seen in relation to infection, vaccination, intoxication, autoimmune disease (eg, systemic lupus erythematosus, antiphospholipid syndrome, Sjögren syndrome, mixed connective tissue disease, and systemic sclerosis),[7]….”

That’s Bhat et al. again.

“TM after infection or vaccination and idiopathic forms are usually monophasic, whereas TM in relation with multiple sclerosis and neuromyelitis optica are relapsing diseases associated with high risk of future attacks of TM and other neurologic events.[8]”

That’s yours. Let’s have a look. The “deeper acknowledgement” comprises three uses of the term:

(1) “The transverse myelitis syndrome may arise from various causes, but it most often occurs as an autoimmune phenomenon after an infection or vaccination (accounting for 60% of the cases in children) or as a result of a direct infection, an underlying systemic autoimmune disease, or an acquired demyelinating disease such as multiple sclerosis or the spectrum of disorders related to neuromyelitis optica (Devic’s disease, a demyelinating disease that is defined by transverse myelitis and optic neuritis).[2-7]”

I’m not reading six papers for your sake when a statement is made in passing.[*]

(2) “The occurrence of transverse myelitis after infection or vaccination does not preclude the need for further evaluation, since infection or immunizations may also trigger attacks of myelitis in the context of an underlying disease (especially multiple sclerosis or neuromyelitis optica).”

This is begging the question.

(3) “The postinfectious, postvaccination, and idiopathic forms of transverse myelitis are usually monophasic syndromes, whereas multiple sclerosis and neuromyelitis optica–spectrum disorders are relapsing diseases that are associated with a high risk of future attacks of transverse myelitis and other neurologic events.”

See #2.

[*] Here; get cracking:

[2\ Kaplin AI, Krishnan C, Deshpande DM, Pardo CA, Kerr DA. Diagnosis and management of acute myelopathies. Neurologist 2005;11:2-18

[3] Jacob A, Weinshenker BG. An approach to the diagnosis of acute transverse myelitis. Semin Neurol 2008;28:105-120

[4] Wingerchuk DM. Postinfectious encephalomyelitis. Curr Neurol Neurosci Rep 2003;3:256-264

[5] de Seze J, Stojkovic T, Breteau G, et al. Acute myelopathies: clinical, laboratory and outcome profiles in 79 cases. Brain 2001;124:1509-1521

[6\ Wingerchuk DM, Lennon VA, Pittock SJ, Lucchinetti CF, Weinshenker BG. Revised diagnostic criteria for neuromyelitis optica. Neurology 2006;66:1485-1489

[7] Wingerchuk DM, Lennon VA, Lucchinetti CF, Pittock SJ, Weinshenker BG. The spectrum of neuromyelitis optica. Lancet Neurol 2007;6:805-815

I’m pretty certain Vincent would have an open mind in considering how the HPV vaccine apparently causes Celiac disease leading to TM. He’d also acknowledge vaccination can and does cause TM. Per his podcasts, he has an open mind regarding microbial colonization in the womb, not factored by the vaccine industry.

These are all things not known to or barely contemplated by Orac’s impudent community, though Narad deserves thanks for digging into the literature, as usual.

Mr Bell: “I’m pretty certain Vincent would have an open mind in considering how the HPV vaccine apparently causes Celiac disease leading to TM.”

As someone who listens to several of Dr. Racaniello’s podcasts, I sincerely doubt this. It has never been mentioned. If it has, you should be able to post the podcast or paper that he was associated with that included that assertion.

Until then, you are just blowing smoke.

From Vincent Racaniello:

When my younger son was in high school he related a story about an HPV vaccine discussion in one of his classes. He said one girl recalled that her father would not let her have HPV vaccine because it caused polio.

I had transverse myelitis over two years ago. Thankfully mine was short segment and not long segment which has worse outcomes. I also have been left with little residual problems. It is still unclear what caused my TM. I even went to Johns Hopkins to help figure out what caused it, and the doctors there still could not agree. TM has many causes–viral infections, autoimmune, and even vaccines. Neither you nor I can say for sure that the vaccine did not cause his TM. Neither can we say that it definitely did. It is unknown. However, I can definitely understand why this family suspects the gardisil vaccine, and the timeline of two weeks is completely plausible. The fact he has a delayed reaction (3rd time) doesn’t negate the odd correlation. Honestly, it could support the hypothesis.

It also found 37 case reports of TM after all vaccines in 39 years, in all English-Language journals – so not just U.S. – and “temporal association was between several days and 3 months, although a longer time frame of up to several years was also suggested.” Using that as evidence of causation is, well, strange. It seems like, unless the paper has something very different, the right conclusion would be “there are very very few case reports of TM after vaccines, and there is no real temporal pattern.”

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