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President Trump and “just asking questions” about disinfectants and UV light to treat COVID-19

Last night, President Trump remarked about somehow getting disinfectants or light “inside” the body could kill coronavirus. Hilarity ensued, but his inadvertent promotion of COVID-19 quackery is deadly serious.

I noted over a month ago that the COVID-19 pandemic, which has disrupted the lives of so many people all over the world with severe illness and death, stay-at-home orders to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus causing COVID-19), and economic devastation, with massive job losses, business closures, and worse, has been a golden opportunity for quackery. This is not surprising, as any new disease that is killing many thousands of people will always be a magnet for quacks. Even if the overall case fatality rate turns out to be a lot lower than originally estimated, when hundreds of millions are infected, hundreds of thousands to millions of people can die, and when there are no effective disease-specific treatments for such a disease the quacks run wild. That’s why we have antivaxxers claiming that the influenza vaccine increases the risk of contracting COVID-19 (a conspiracy theory that appeared very early in the pandemic, as did the false claim that SARS-CoV-2 arose as a result of a failed SARS vaccine or as a failed attempt to make an HIV vaccine) while anti-GMO cranks are blaming glyphosate and 5G cranks blame—surprise! surprise!—the rollout of 5G networks. Meanwhile, quacks are promoting herbal “cures,” while a “brave maverick scientist” named Didier Raoult is promoting an unproven drug combination, hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, as a “silver bullet” treatment for COVID-19 based on the thinnest of evidence, aided and abetted by President Trump, Dr. Mehmet Oz, and the whole Fox News propaganda machine, led by Laura Ingraham. Last night, President Trump was at it again. In an appearance even more unhinged than his usual appearances on the nightly COVID Clown Show, he, well, just look at the video and news story for yourself:

Here’s part of the relevant passage:

President Trump has long pinned his hopes on the powers of sunlight to defeat the Covid-19 virus. On Thursday, he returned to that theme at the daily White House coronavirus briefing, bringing in a top administration scientist to back up his assertions and eagerly theorizing — dangerously, in the view of some experts — about the powers of sunlight, ultraviolet light and household disinfectants to kill the coronavirus.

After the scientist, William N. Bryan, the head of science at the Department of Homeland Security, told the briefing that the government had tested how sunlight and disinfectants — including bleach and alcohol — can kill the coronavirus on surfaces in as little as 30 seconds, an excited Mr. Trump returned to the lectern.

“Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light,” Mr. Trump said. “And I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but we’re going to test it?” he added, turning to Mr. Bryan, who had returned to his seat. “And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, either through the skin or some other way.”

Apparently reassured that the tests he was proposing would take place, Mr. Trump then theorized about the possible medical benefits of disinfectants in the fight against the virus.

“And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute — one minute — and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning?” he asked. “Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

This led to the official Twitter account of the Washington Military Department and its Emergency Management Division to Tweet:

After which hashtags like #DontDrinkBleach started trending, with Tweets like this:

And this:

And this:

And this video, showing Dr. Deborah Birx’s clearly failing effort to hide the dismay on her face as President Trump opined on disinfectants and light:

Meanwhile, another hashtag started trending, #TidePodPresident:

I will admit to some amusement with the Tide Pod President moniker.

Jokes on Twitter from Twitter denizens being Twitter denizens aside, though, how ignorant do you have to be not to know that most chemicals and interventions that work externally (e.g., disinfectants, light, bleach, soap) to inactivate coronavirus will not work taken internally. It’s the same sort of easy mistake that drives supporters of colloidal silver. As I’ve discussed many times before, colloidal silver is an effective topical antibiotic. It’s in a variety of topical agents used to treat burns (e.g., Silvadene, or silver sulfadiazine) and open wounds. Not only doesn’t colloidal silver work when taken internally because it’s not possible to get a therapeutic blood level of silver without significant toxicity, but long term ingestion of colloidal silver can turn your skin blue, a condition known as argyria. There are, of course, many varieties of colloidal silver sold by quacks, and none of them work when taken internally.

More education on this simple point on Twitter:

Then there’s bleach or disinfectant. One thing that really worries me about President Trump’s mention of bleach and disinfectant “injected” or otherwise somehow administered internally is the likelihood that the Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) quacks will seize on it as a reason to start treating COVID-19 with MMS. As I’ve discussed time and time again, MMS is in reality a chemical used as an industrial bleach and disinfectant, as well as in other industrial processes. Specifically, it is a solution of 28% sodium chlorite in distilled water that generates chlorine dioxide when diluted with citric acid-containing or other acid-containing foods, as instructed. Chlorine dioxide is used for water purification that was somehow adopted by the founder of Genesis II Church, Jim Humble, and touted as a miracle cure for just about everything. Antivaxxers and autism quacks, such as Kerri Rivera, have promoted it as a cure (or at least a treatment) for autism, as have believers on secret Facebook groups. There is no currently known valid medical reason to administer this chemical to anyone to treat anything, much less cancer, autism, AIDS, or other medical conditions. None of this is (or should be) in serious dispute from a strictly scientific, medical, or ethical standpoint.

Yes, I know that President Trump didn’t specifically mention MMS, but he did mention bleach. I also realize that MMS quacks desperately deny that MMS is, in fact, a bleach, but who said that quacks are consistent? These same quacks also claim that the GI distress that children experience after ingesting bleach are experiencing a “healing crisis” and that the chunks of “mucus” coming out of the rectums of children treated with MMS enemas is are “parasites” when any general surgeon, gastroenterologist, or, hell, almost any doctor can tell you that these pieces of “mucus” are in reality pieces of colon mucosa (the layer of cells lining the inside of the colon) that are sloughing because of the toxic and irritating effect of repeated friggin’ bleach enemas!

Indeed, quacks, seeking to sell their nostrums to those susceptible to believing they might work, are likely to promote MMS based on President Trump’s remarks. Oh, wait¡ They already have:

Advocates of a toxic bleach “miracle cure” are claiming vindication after President Donald Trump at a press briefing suggested that injecting disinfectant could cure the novel coronavirus.

And:

https://twitter.com/Jordan_Sather_/status/1253468393115508736

Jordan Sather, by the way in case you’re not familiar with him, is a big promoter of the utterly loony QAnon conspiracy theory. He’s not alone, either:

Business Insider found scores of other accounts on Twitter claiming that Trump’s remarks were evidence that bleach can heal the disease.

Myles Power, a scientist who has debunked claims by MMS advocates and other medical misinformation, told Business Insider that the remarks would empower the movement.

“Mr Trump’s recent off-the-cuff comments about injecting disinfectant might sound ridiculous but it will be used as an endorsement by these bleach pushers who in the past have injected people with their corrosive elixir,” Power said.

“For a world leader at the height of a pandemic to say something so utterly ridiculous is not only irresponsible it’s also potentially lethal.”

Of course, the Genesis II Church had already been selling MMS for COVID-19 even before President Trump’s latest COVID Clown Show. Two weeks ago, the FDA issued a warning for chlorine dioxide products claiming to treat COVID-19, and last week, a federal court issued a temporary injunction ordering the group to stop selling MMS to treat coronavirus. With this background, I hope you can see just how potentially dangerous Trump’s scientifically ignorant ramblings are.

It’s not just MMS, either. Hydrogen peroxide is another “disinfectant” that could inactivate coronavirus on surfaces. Well, reason quacks, if peroxide can inactivate coronavirus on surfaces, surely it can inactivate the virus on the “surfaces” of your lungs and respiratory tract, right? What could possibly go wrong? Just look at this post at über-quack Joe Mercola’s blog and his rationale for using hydrogen peroxide:

Your immune cells actually produce hydrogen peroxide. This is in part how your immune system kills cells that have been infected with a virus. By killing the infected cell, viral reproduction is stopped. So, hydrogen peroxide therapy is in essence only aiding your immune cells to perform their natural function more effectively.

It is indeed true that some immune cells use hydrogen peroxide to kill cells infected with virus. But guess what? There’s a huge difference between immune cells generating small amounts of peroxide that can produce locally high concentrations sufficient to kill infected cells and either injecting or inhaling nebulizer hydrogen peroxide, the latter of which Trump’s ignorantly speculated about. Hilariously, Mercola lists a bunch of studies that demonstrate that nebulized hydrogen peroxide can kill viruses on surfaces and thereby disinfect them. That’s no big surprise. It’s a strong oxidizing agent.

Now get a load of this:

The therapy touted by Farr involved administering hydrogen peroxide intravenously. This, however, puts the therapy out of reach for most who want a quick and easy remedy to use at home. A far more inexpensive and convenient alternative is to inhale the hydrogen peroxide mist, using a nebulizer — a small, handheld device that converts liquid into a very fine mist.

The microscopic mist, similar to smoke or vapor, can be comfortably inhaled deep into your nostrils, sinuses and lungs. While nebulizers have routinely been used by asthmatics to deliver medication into their lungs, this delivery system affects not only the lungs but your entire body.

As noted in the 2002 review article,17 “Pulmonary Drug Delivery Systems: Recent Developments and Prospects,” “Targeting drug delivery into the lungs has become one of the most important aspects of systemic … drug delivery systems.”

Yes, patients with asthma have used nebulizers to deliver medicine to the bloodstream for several decades. There’s a difference between that and inhaling potential irritants. Certain quacks who recommend nebulized peroxide suggest 3% peroxide, which is the usual strength of hydrogen peroxide solutions sold at the drug store claim that it’s a “completely nontoxic therapy” that “can be administered as often as desired.” Mercola quotes a fellow qucak named Dr. Thomas E. Levy, who claims:

If daily prevention is not a practical option, the effectiveness of this treatment is optimized when somebody sneezes in your face or you finally get off of the plane after a trans-Atlantic flight. Don’t wait for initial symptoms. Just nebulize at your first opportunity.”

There is no evidence that inhaled hydrogen peroxide either treats or cures COVID-19, and nebulized mists of it are corrosive and can irritate and damage the mucus membranes and the airways, something that’s definitely not a good idea to subject the lungs to if you have COVID-19. I also note that Dr. Levy has been inducted into the Orthomolecular Hall of Fame. That’s about as good an indication of a quack as a doctor who embraces homeopathy, in my book. Unsurprisingly, he’s one of the quacks who believes that high dose vitamin C is good for everything.

I also worry about yet another form of quackery. Remember how Trump invoked ultraviolet (UV) light, which, as is the case for many viruses, can inactivate SARS-CoV-2? Of course, I suppose that some of the more ignorant might think that this means that tanning beds could be a treatment for COVID-19, but UV radiation doesn’t penetrate the skin past the dermis, the layer of the skin beneath the epidermis, which is the skin surface layer. I also note that COVID-19 doesn’t infect skin cells. That’s why wearing gloves is useless to protect yourself if you touch something with SARS-CoV-2 on it and then touch parts of your face where the virus can gain entry to your respiratory tract. In fact, wearing gloves might even be worse than no gloves, because who washes their gloved hands? Unless you change gloves frequently and never touch your face while wearing them, you might as well just wash your hands or use hand sanitizer frequently.

But I digress.

Let’s look at Trump’s remarks on light a bit more. Do you remember Trump’s bit about getting the “light inside”? Although, as mentioned above, UV light doesn’t penetrate past the skin, when I first heard his remark I could nonetheless see one last form of quackery whose proponents will likely leap at Trump’s remarks. Is anyone familiar with “blood irradiation”? Basically UV blood irradiation involves pumping a patient’s blood through a device that subjects it to UV irradiation and then infusing the irradiated blood back into the patient’s body. Well, the quacks are way ahead of you, proposing UV blood irradiation as a cure or treatment for COVID-19. Hilariously, Redstate.org used the existence of UV blood irradiation as a defense of Trump’s remarks:

Despite the blue checks getting gleeful over how stupid Trump is, there are some facts we should get straight. We know that we can use UV light as a way to kill various types of bacteria and foreign bodies already. The practice is called “ultraviolet blood irradiation” and was used as a cure for many different things until the invention of antibiotics. The practice was nicknamed “the cure that time forgot.”

I laughed out loud when I read this article. There’s a reason that UV blood irradiation is a treatment “that time forgot.” It’s been forgotten because it doesn’t work. Trump supporters are pointing to the quackery of UV blood irradiation to provide “context” to his remarks, even though UV blood irradiation (sometimes also called BioPhotonic therapy) is pure quackery that has never been convincingly demonstrated to treat anything and is often harmful, given that the people offering such quackery often aren’t that fastidious about sterility while doing a procedure that recirculates much of the patient’s blood volume through a UV device. It never ceases to amuse me how these partisans who appropriately criticize Chris Cuomo’s wife Christina Cuomo’s use of homeopathy and other quackery to treat her family’s COVID-19 (which I had planned on discussing here until this post ballooned longer than I had planned, leading me to think that the Cuomos’ quackery is serious enough to deserve a separate post of its own), while defending Trump’s embrace of quackery.

Some might just dismiss Trump’s irresponsible inadvertent promotion of quackery last night as Trump being Trump, as something that’s to be expected and is not likely to cause harm, but we already know that his premature touting of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin resulted in shortages of the drugs and helped feed the furor that led many hospitals to adopt hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin as a de facto standard of care even before there was any evidence other than Didier Raoult’s singularly incompetent, uninformative, and possibly even fraudulent first study. Paul Krugman wrote about Trump’s reliance on fake experts and medical quacks like Dr. Oz. He’s right. Reality (other than reality TV shows) is not Trump’s strong suit. Lives are likely to be endangered.

Seriously, if the manufacturer of Lysol feels the need after your press conference to warn that the internal use of disinfectants is potentially harmful, you really screwed up. Only in America during the era of Trump.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

99 replies on “President Trump and “just asking questions” about disinfectants and UV light to treat COVID-19”

oh snap. I’ll put this where it belongs then.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you our glorious dear leader, President Tide Pod

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked but you’re going to test it. Supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. And is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? It would be interesting to check that. That you’re gonna have to use medical doctors with.

https://youtu.be/ILPskpg5OuM

(Que Limbaugh saying that it is just manufactured outrage to own the libs — that he doesn’t really mean that.)

“I was asking the question sarcastically, to reporters like you, just to see what would happen….

…Hours before Trump’s Friday remarks, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany sought to walk back the comments in a statement, saying, “President Trump has repeatedly said that Americans should consult with medical doctors regarding coronavirus treatment. … Leave it to the media to irresponsibly take President Trump out of context and run with negative headlines.”

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-claims-his-comments-on-injecting-disinfectant-were-sarcastic/

Well we know its not true, he was serious and you can see in the original clip he’s serious, more to the point many who support him thought he was serious, they only changed tack once the humiliation he was subjected to made his come up with a story about it being a sarcastic comment. (Wonder how Redstate responded to the Trump leaf in the wind act?)

And as its been a thing on the far right for several months to be touting bleach cures, from the likes of Q-anon and InforWars, among others we know Trump uses to get information from, we know this was more than just his musings.

Added to the fact we now know he was in touch earlier in the week with a major proponent of bleach therapy, its clear he thought his base would be all over this.

I’ve seen stuff like this numerous times before.
Do the people touting this stuff not realise that the reason we don’t use these things in this way is because while they’ll kill the disease, they’ll kill the patient before that?

No, they don’t. This is the same place all those people who think marijuana cures cancer are coming from.

Actually quite a smart move from the America first (I’m alright Jack) perspective. Now everyone else, including the Chinese has come forward to show how idiotic it is by upping their payments to the WHO.

When Trump mentioned using light internally my thoughts ran more to Barium-137 or Cobalt-60 nanoparticles in a special gamma ray version of Vicks® VapoRub™. That neatly solves the problem of how to get the light inside to the infected area.
For mildish COVID-19 cases use Vicks® Barium-137 VapoRub™, and for the more serious COVID-19 cases use Vicks® Cobalt-60 VapoRub™ to kill the little vermin no matter how deep in your lungs they hide…
You could also shove a thin stick down your trachea and slap it around – slapping your bronchial tubes since you kill cockroaches by whacking them… right?
.
Absolute madness of a person who has convinced themselves over a lifetime that they are an unrecognised genius.

But, wouldn’t that cause cancer (taps head)?

Look, the problem is getting the air past the lungs and into the body. So, naturally, the easiest way is to bundle up a whole bunch of those impossibly thin glass sample lines used in trace gas mass separations and shove them down the trachea where they branch out and puncture through many, many differing alveoli. Then you just hook up a standard fish tank vibrating bubbler to the bundle and done. No cancer required!

— I’ll run this by Conway to see if Big Orange likes the idea as something that should be looked into.

When I heard that internal light blather yesterday it reminded me of an xray I saw once of a Mag-Lite in someone’s lower abdomen (there’s no end of “let’s see what people put in their body” xrays). I guess now you could call it a Maga-Lite.

Was the Mag-Lite turned on or off and did it have Energizer batteries in it?
.
I’m always amazed at the x-rays of what people shove down their gullet or up their colon.
So many weird things…
Is there a site with a collection of these x-ray images of things inside people that don’t belong there?
Most of those images are humorous in a slightly dark way…

there’s no end of “let’s see what people put in their body” xrays

Indeed. Unfortunately this site doesn’t have an image of the frozen pig’s tail, but the eggplant is pretty good.

<

blockquote> Unfortunately this site doesn’t have an image of the frozen pig’s tail

Noah, get the boat.

@ Reality

Is there a site with a collection of these x-ray images of things inside people that don’t belong there?

I don’t remember if he provides that many X-ray pictures, but Doc Bastard, as a trauma surgeon, has a nice personal collection of stories.
I learned stuff on his site. Notably that the way to a man’s heart could truly be through his stomach.

We had a patient once, a young lad, who lost a plug chain down his urethra, required open bladder surgery to get it out.

Probably the weirdest one I ever saw.

We had a patient once, a young lad, who lost a plug chain down his urethra, required open bladder surgery to get it out.

Oh, G-d, I wish I had left myself in the dark about this term.

I was reminded of those blood cleaning machines where they give you an IV and loop your blood into a light box.

Yes there seems to be a lot of stuff that works well in a petridish against corona, but not in human beings, which are a lot more complicated than a petridish.

“Yes there seems to be a lot of stuff that works well in a petridish against corona, but not in human beings, which are a lot more complicated than a petridish”

Still, worth keeping a note of them in case the pandemic starts spreading among petri dishes!.

“Mercola quotes a fellow (quack) named Dr. Thomas E. Levy”

In addition to promoting vitamin C nonsense*, Levy is also an antivaxer (he has articles up on whale.to) and has co-authored “Death By Calcium” with Julian Whitaker. Too bad the book came out too late to save Gary Null from being poisoned by his own vitamin D supplement.

*this includes a Levy book proclaiming that “the origin of all coronary heart disease is a clearly reversible arterial scurvy”. I’m just surprised that Trump hasn’t named Levy Surgeon General yet.

Despite his past self-damage, the Grand Poobah of PRN is “educating” listeners and elderly health retreat participants about how to avoid or treat Covid-19 with all of his usual nonsense ( vitamins, herbs, vegan foods, meditation) AND how it is mostly harmless unless if a patient is dying already**. Several articles and videos over the past weeks. Non stop.
Woo-meisters will always find a way to capitalise fears.

** just like that 5 year girl in Michigan and many health workers.

Somewhere I read that Ms Cuomo treated her husband and herself with vitamins and herbals as well which helped immensely. Right. Sure.
Now their 14 year old is Covid positive as well.

The Real Truther Tweeted someone’s take on Trump’s statement:
the video included him speaking as quoted above and Dr Birx’s reaction accompanied by the theme from Curb Your Enthusiasm. If you don’t know this exceedingly appropriate musical selection, I believe it was found in a retro Italian television show or film and sounds as if something ridiculous is about to occur. Truth in music selection.

A while ago. I told someone that because of his education ( military school, business/ real estate majors) I doubted whether Trump ever studied general biology or related subjects.Even if it was 50+ years ago, shouldn’t he at least have retained a modicum of the structure of life sciences- somewhere – in that brain of his? His comments may prove my speculation.

his education ( military school, business/ real estate majors)

IIRC Trump was sent to a kind of mock military school – an upper-class borstal offering Strict Discipline for privileged kids who can’t stay at home because they keep raping the maids.

This would actually be amusing if it weren’t for the fact that like what happened when he was mouthing off about the “miracle” of hydroxychloroquine some poor sap who is either scared out of their wits, or just plain desperate is actually going to try what the waddling cheeto suggests, and end up seriously ill, or dead. But the reality is just plain depressing.

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: “I’m not a doctor. But I’m, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.”

There you have it ladies and gentleman.. the extremely smart person who doesn’t appear to know the word “brain” yet is somehow in charge of a country with a population in excess of 300million people, a sizeable military and a nuclear arsenal. And isn’t even smart enough to stick to what actual experts say during one of the most serious public health crises to affect his country during the last hundred years or so.

Pretty sure 45 failed elementary school science…

I too was wondering how to get the UV internally. I had not heard of UV blood irradiation. I guess I should be surprised.

The man is a danger to this world. We hospitalize patients with mental illness who are a threat to themselves or others. We really need to do this with Trump.

Indeed, quacks, seeking to sell their nostrums to those susceptible to believing they might work, are likely to promote MMS based on President Trump’s remarks.

It appears that they actually saw it coming beforehand.

Oh God. All three of those–UV, peroxide, and bleach–are just fatal.

Only UVC, a short-wavelength, high-energy, region, kills bacteria: it does it by destroying DNA. What do you think it’ll do to the DNA of your own cells? It doesn’t know the difference between a bacterium or virus and you. If you really irradiated blood with an effective UV source, there go all your own blood cells. Not to mention that short-wavelength UV will destroy your retinas very quickly, and it’s especially dangerous because you can’t see it and don’t know if you’re staring right at it and getting a high dose.

Even 3% peroxide, when swallowed (people have done this to “kill cancer cells”) destroys so much of the stomach lining that you inevitably vomit it all up. And, in yet another tedious repetition of “The dose makes the poison”, 35% peroxide is a contact explosive–yes, it explodes–with anything that’s got carbon-carbon or carbon-hydrogen bonds, like dust, hair, clothing, and paper. So, as Orac says, that’s how strong an oxidizing agent it is, and don’t try to step up the concentration! They even recommend against using 3% as an antiseptic on cuts now, suggest using iodine instead, because the amount of skin damage caused by peroxide is such that it might lead to greater infection later.

ClO2 is fatal when inhaled! It destroys the first things it comes into contact with, on contact, which wouldd be your nasal passages and your bronchii and lung tissue. And, if you think that a 28% solution of sodium chlorite is safe (even without converting it to ClO2), why not test this theory by applying a 5% solution of sodium hypochlorite (the “hypo” means “under”, as in, not as strong as chlorite) to your skin? That’s undliuted Chlorox, right out of the bottle, and everyone knows that that gives you skin burns and actute injuries. So, let’s see, a much more concentrated solution of a much stronger bleach (chlorite), what will happen? Chlorite is banned in consumer products like bleach and cleaners and disinfectants, it is far too strong in any concentration.

But, there will be some deaths caused by this. Some people, like those who swallowed chloroquine and died, will try these. My first thought when Trump was elected was that he will cause deaths, although I did not foresee this route. What next, setting yourself on fire to kill the virus? That would, in fact, work.

While more energetic, the UVc mostly does not get past dead skin cells on the surface. Also, it is attenuated just traveling through a few feet of air. It is safer than being exposed to, say, sunlight or a tanning bulb.

UVC radiation can damage the superficial tissues of the eye, and care must be taken to avoid excessive exposures of the eye. We should note, though, that while eye exposures to UVC may cause extreme discomfort, the symptoms usually subside within a rather short time, and no evidence of any malignant effects has ever been noted.

https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q9450.htm

Many years ago, I ingested a small amount of peroxide by accident. No permanent damage was done, but it’s not an experience I care to repeat.

Convenient that the people selling these quack remedies are never the ones who will experience them themselves.

“because you can’t see it and don’t know if you’re staring right at it” – and this is why most modern Biological Safety Cabinets (BSCs) that still have a UV lamp have a single switch, so either the visible light lamp is on, or the UV lamp, but not both. Because people have gotten hurt working in a BSC that had the UV lamp on.

Your wrong: AmericaWeServe.Com, massive evidence for one that your all wrong, Trump was right, he was making comments based on information which is real fully documented and fully tested. You can’t compare Chlorine Dioxide to Chlorine, they are as different as Carbon Dioxide is from Carbon (Coal). Why is it many times people with degrees seem to be more dim and sadly dumbed down to the point that even common sense no longer exists. Science is if you do the experiment, and then someone else does the experience and the same result takes place, meaning they have repeated the experiment and it was successful. 20 Million people use it worldwide, 11 Million in the US, and over 20 Million wrote testimonies or videos of the success. Why is it that Doctor’s are so brainwashed that they can see the forest among the trees. When it is right in front of them. All evidence is on that site. Wake up, and quit lying about people and things which you truly have no experience with directly. I have used Chlorine Dioxide to cure everything, you name it I have cured it or someone else in the huge group of people I stay in touch with. All from a simple 4 onces of active water dose. Very sad indeed! Wake Up, there is a solution to the virus. And you don’t have to wait for a drug, antibiotic or a vaccine to get rid of it. The Covid was here in my whole family, 3 people who were taking Chlorine Dioxide dose each day normally never get sick, but everyone else got it. The use Chlorine Dioxide to get rid of the virus in them in as little as 24 hours, and all of them within 72 hours. My 91 year father takes one dose of Chlorine Dioxide every day, has not been sick for 5 years since he started, was normally sick 3 times a years, every year. His PH Balance always is at 7.25 to 7.5 at 91 years old. Science is doing an experiment and it succeeds, then duplicate it with others and they repeat it, and the same result. 20 Million repeated results….I think it is beyond proven. Good luck if you listen to Doctors or liberal hype or people who want to stay stupid and believe those who purposefully made sure you were given retro viruses in foods, vaccines, drugs, and contaminated blood supplies for the last 40 years. I will take my proven Chlorine Dixoide, and kill them all and keep me and my family disease free, drug free, antibiotic free and vaccine free. I guess that is Freedom! Be safe, be healthy if you can on drugs and vaccine dreams.

Replace the other comment using this comment, other one had typos.

Your wrong: AmericaWeServe.Com, massive evidence for one that your all wrong, Trump was right, he was making comments based on information which is real fully documented and fully tested. You can’t compare Chlorine Dioxide to Chlorine, they are as different as Carbon Dioxide is from Carbon (Coal). Why is it many times people with degrees seem to be more dim and sadly dumbed down to the point that even common sense no longer exists. Science is if you do the experiment, and then someone else does the experiment and the same result takes place, meaning they have repeated the experiment and it was successful. 20 Million people use it worldwide, 11 Million in the US, and over 2 Million wrote testimonies or videos of the success. Why is it that Doctor’s are so brainwashed that they can’t see the forest among the trees. When it is right in front of them. All evidence is on that site. Wake up, and quit lying about people and things which you truly have no experience with directly. I have used Chlorine Dioxide to cure everything, you name it I have cured it or someone else in the huge group of people I stay in touch with. All from a simple 4 onces of active water dose. Very sad indeed! Wake Up, there is a solution to the virus. And you don’t have to wait for a drug, antibiotic or a vaccine to get rid of it. The Covid was here in my whole family, 3 people who were taking Chlorine Dioxide dose each day normally never get sick, but everyone else got it. I used Chlorine Dioxide to get rid of the virus in them in as little as 24 hours, and all of them within 72 hours. My 91 year father ws not even touched by it, he takes one dose 6 drops of activated Sodium Chlorite, Chlorine Dioxide every day, has not been sick for 5 years since he started, was normally sick 3 times a years, every year. His PH Balance always is at 7.25 to 7.5 at 91 years old. Science is doing an experiment and it succeeds, then duplicate it with others and they repeat it, and the same result. 20 Million repeated results….I think it is beyond proven. Good luck if you listen to Doctors or liberal hype or people who want to stay stupid and believe those who purposefully made sure you were given retro viruses in foods, vaccines, drugs, and contaminated blood supplies for the last 40 years are trustworthy when the only reason they do it, is for the sake of money and patents and power to control people. Heck, I guess you have no problem with Gate’s wanting every man woman and child injected with harmful vaccines, then chipped to track them, which were never needed 40 years, and definitely not needed now! I repeat…I have cured everything with MMS…Period! Every time all the time. And it works fast because just one dose increases the Oxygen in the blood 50% immediately in the body, within 2 hours, you can view the white t-cells, elongating and flying 2 times the speed in the blood stream right to blood clots and dispersing them and keep going. I will take my proven Chlorine Dioxide, and kill all viruses, infections, parasites and keep me and my family disease free, drug free, antibiotic free and vaccine free. I guess that is Freedom! Be safe, be healthy if you can on drugs and vaccine dreams.

Hank Williams (1923–1953) died from a combination of chloral hydrate, morphine and whiskey

You really, really don’t like me, do you.

On a political blog where I mostly lurk, people used to regularly joke that President Obama should have made a forceful statement against drinking bleach, because that would have induced some of the Obama haters to actually do it. Now Trump is actually advocating this. At least he has stopped advocating hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 treatment, and is presumably hoping that that goes down the memory hole–there are people who died from taking that advice, including at least one who got his (over)dose of HCQ from aquarium cleaner tablets.

There are people who compare Trump to President Camacho from Idiocracy. I have long been of the opinion that the comparison is unfair to Camacho, who at least understood that he was in over his head and needed to listen to expert advice. Trump cannot admit, even to himself, that he is out of his depth and doesn’t know everything he needs to know about [insert any relevant topic]. No President would know, which is why a normal President would surround himself with experts who can advise him about these things. That is why I would rather be living under President Camacho than President Trump.

Didn’t Camacho still spend quite too much time listening to the Brawndo lobby advocating for plant welfare though?

Well, maybe not too much. It all worked out in the end; You’re right, Camacho is the more wise ruler.

Just some of my favorite memes over the last little while:

Little Nero:
Who knows what this means, but it sounds good to me! https://theweek.com/speedreads/900761/trump-retweets-white-house-photo-fiddling-says-doesnt-know-what-means

How to wear a mask:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/0nSEB1ZM7fulTYabPwA1JFNRpPM=/1440×0/smart/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/76MZ3JZY5REPFE2EZR7GEPH2RM.JPG

covfefe-19:
https://i.redd.it/rw929uwmjgo41.jpg

I can’t find a link to one of my favorites, but it is an caricature of a very fat trump with little hands and feet and tie that flows down and across the floor whilst looking backwards through binoculars at a big coronavirus heading straight for him like a meteor.

Trump has become desperate to open the country again. He is grasping at whatever straws he can find, trying to pressure the states and the medical experts. Trump is desperate to hold election rallies again. It is where he feels most comfortable and in control. He has held election rallies throughoyyt his Presidency whenever he was finding governing the country confusing.

According to article in my local newspaper today, Trump claims he was only joking to get a response from journalists. I doubt this; but even if true, it shows a reckless disregard for the seriousness involved. Our “intuitive genius” President didn’t seem to care if some journalists published it and members of the public responded accordingly. Just one more example of Trump’s lack of judgment, that is, if he were joking and if he weren’t joking, well . . .

And some editorials still attacking Chinese and WHO. I should point out that in 2009 the WHO put out a pandemic alarm based on best information at the time. Well, not all that many died from the H1N!, though more children and young people than usual flu epidemics. So, Director of WHO was forced to resign. Of course, if WHO had not put out warning when they did and it turned out to be a really nasty flu, they would also have been attacked. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Same with China. I now have several reviews of time table and they acted appropriately. Could they have acted a few days to week earlier, yep; but then if, as in 2009, they would have been condemned as well. As far as I can tell, they acted as soon as they had good data and so did the WHO.

And, of course, by attacking WHO and China, diverts attention from our poor pandemic preparedness and poor leadership. We had warehouses, both state and federal, for pandemics; but allowed them to have lower and lower stocks of everything from gowns and masks to ventilators. Had they been kept up, we would have been well prepared. And Trump had adequate warning; but, for instance, stopped Chinese from entering U.S.; but not Americans returning from China as if a virus only hitches a ride on one group of people. And he closed the White House Pandemic Advisory Committee, was trying to cut funding to WHO and CDC before the pandemic, and on and on it goes.

So, Trump’s pushing of hydroxychloroquine, and his “joke”, just mild examples of we have a President who is a loose canon, who lives in a world of fantasy, just when we especially need a President who leads, first seeking advice of experts.

It wasnt a joke. He said he was being sarcastic.

He wasnt being sarcastic, there was no sarcasm in his tone of voice. He’s a f#£king idiot. He’s an idiot because the leader of a major nation shouldn’t be using sarcasm about this in public without making it clear it’s not serious, he’s an idiot because he wasn’t joking or using sarcasm.

The only question is, is it because he wings these things without thinking about what he is saying? Or is it that he has had his arse licked all his life and truly believes he is an intelligent person?

I can’t help thinking that Trump’s life story is basically The Emperor’s New Clothes in a modern era.

@ NumberWang

In Trump’s case the emperor’s new clothes comes in extra large size.

Trump was born to a very wealthy father. He survived several failures by being bailed out by his father and/or filing bankruptcy where he came out all right (super wealth can get the best legal help); but stiffed many small firms, electrical, plumbing, etc. who had worked on his projects. And his only real claim to fame is a TV program where he says: “You’re Fired!”

How the hell did he become President of the United States? And why do so many of his supporters, despite his being caught in lie after lie, despite his policies actually hurting them, still support him?

An excellent book that discusses the psychology of why people would rather refuse to acknowledge mistakes even when they are being hurt is: Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson’s “Mistakes were made (But not by me!) 2nd edition.

And, of course, Trump appears to support their biases against immigrants and women having control over their own bodies. So, focusing on a couple of issues, they ignore many many more.

Finally, studies have found that many people act on what is said, not what is done.

In any case, though I have not liked most Presidents during my lifetime, Trump is in a league of his own. No President devoted time to calling people names, Twitter, etc. And no President basically totally rejected scientific advice or, for the matter, any advice, so openly and blatantly. And the only previous President with as short an attention span was Ronald Reagan and, as some suspect of Trump, he was in early stages of Alzheimer’s..

In March, when I first heard that 6 or 7 Bay area counties were asked to shut down, I imagined that the outbreak there was worse there than it was here. I was wrong. They merely took action earlier which has led to BETTER results for them. We followed right after them but didn’t avoid catastrophe although it is calming down now.

“Supposing you brought the light inside of the body”
Now we can tell Trump to ‘stick it where the sun don’t shine’, and he might actually do it.

A bit off topic,

I noticed that the Lysol image used at the beginning of Orac’s post has a registered trademark Ⓡ.symbol. Upon closer inspection, the phrase “BRAND II” has been added/ inserted within the Lysol image.

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:28r8pj.2.15

Q. Is it false advertising when a registered trademark is altered, wherein the new image is clearly different, and further registration is ignored.

@ Orac’s minions,

Please advise.

If the link is busted, then why am I looking at a perfectly rendered image of Lemmiwinks?

YouRube busted my browser of choice (Pale Moon) on purpose — perhaps an automatic update borked your shit??

If the link is busted, then why am I looking at a perfectly rendered image of Lemmiwinks?

Doucheniak’s. The link is time (viz., expiration) stamped.

Christ, this might as well be done with, as MJD has made the choice to rebrand himself as Mr. USPTO, which was par for the course in his Failverse.

I noticed that the Lysol image used at the beginning of Orac’s post has a registered trademark Ⓡ.symbol. Upon closer inspection, the phrase “BRAND II” has been added/ inserted within the Lysol image.

This is gibberish. Even if the logo were a design mark, it’s nearly a moral certainty that it would apply only to the stylized lettering, rather than being simply one instance of every fucking background imaginable, each of which would require its own trademark. I’m guessing that this is countably infinite.

Is it false advertising when a registered trademark is altered, wherein the new image is clearly different, and further registration is ignored.

Simpering does not improve (generously) category errors.

Just one more example of Trump’s lack of judgment, that is, if he were joking and if he weren’t joking, well . . .

I have never seen evidence that Trump has a sense of humour. He was serious.

Well, the ones I’ve got in the bathroom (GE) makes me look like death eating a cracker. Can’t even check my eyeballs to see if I got yellow yet from too much drink.

Trump even mangles right-wing talking points. There is/was a theme of ‘Energy efficient bulbs have bad light!’ but it was based on standard (i.e. not full spectrum) CFLs. That’s not an orange cast at all, but kind of weird near-green.

Of course, light from standard old school incandescent bulbs, ~ 2700°K, is actually MORE orange than the light from any other electric illumination in general household use.

Looks like we have a full-fledged alt loon in Cristina Cuomo, who boasts of taking Clorox baths and more:

“…Cuomo says she takes oxygenated herbs every day to strengthen her immune system, including Echinacea Osha and nontoxic quinine (aka Peruvian bark). She also takes the decongestant Sinex, antivirals and numerous vitamins to fight sinus symptoms.

Cuomo says she enlisted a doctor to make a house call in a hazmat suit to administer a vitamin-packed drip, including folic acid, zinc and caffeine, to combat a sinus infection…
As President Donald Trump appeared to question Thursday whether disinfectant could be used to treat coronavirus patients – to the dismay of medical professionals – Cuomo says she adds “½ cup ONLY of Clorox” to her bathwater to “combat the radiation and metals in my system and oxygenate it.”

“We want to neutralize heavy metals because they slow-up the electromagnetic frequency of our cells, which is our energy field, and we need a good flow of energy,” Cuomo explains.

She adds there is “no danger in doing this,” comparing it to “a simple naturopathic treatment.””

Oh brother.

http://usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/04/24/coronavirus-experts-warn-against-cristina-cuomos-bleach-baths-methods/3017294001/

^ The blog entry itself has some gems (she’s also added a quasi disclaimer). Get this: “I enlisted Dr. Linda Lancaster, who put my husband on a path of natural remedies to strengthen his immune system—and now mine–and it’s working for us.”

Meet “Dr.” Lancaster.

Clorox for artistically-imagined, face-framing highlights?

Actually, I once chanced upon “natural” hair dyes in a woo-tinged health food store and they had several options. Today, I found Naturcolor ™ of Napa, CA. which has a quiz to assist you in selecting products- 31 choices such as turmeric or mullein blondes.
Also Indian stores stock coal black ( black as a black cat, not as shiny) not sure if it’s “natural” though
Kids used to use lemon juice to strategically lighten hair.

Her’s looks like regular salon ( not natural) processing.

If I see the webadres, I know enough. The website is full of quackery and endorsments by people who I wouldn’t trust on anything medical.
An actress
A CEO from some company
An actor, director and producer
Well of course, if I seek medical advice I turn to an actress, because they know everything about healthy living, like Gwyneth Paltrow.

I prefer suicide blonde. On a women, anyway. It’s usually sending a message.
Men? I much prefer natural hair, even if gray, or a single colored streak.
That’s ideally, anyway. Realistically, I can’t afford to be too choosy.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brad+pit+fauchi

You shouldn’t speak until you know what you’re talking about. That’s why I get uncomfortable with interviews. Reporters ask me what I feel China should do about Tibet. Who cares what I think China should do? I’m a fucking actor! They hand me a script. I act. I’m here for entertainment, basically, when you whittle everything away. I’m a grown man who puts on makeup.

–Brad Pit, October 13,1997

Why can’t that guy be our president?

Linda Lancaster is a real piece of work. According to Cristina Cuomo, the ”coronavirus protocol” Lancaster put her husband on involves a slew of pills, many of them homeopathic remedies like Rhus Tox, which is prepared from dilutions of poison ivy and seems pretty much good for whatever ails you.

“A very frequent use of Rhus tox is to help blistering skin diseases. The analogy is with the itchy, painful rash produced by contact of the plant sap with the skin of a sensitive individual. Thus, it is a major remedy to help the pain of shingles, which is caused by a herpes virus. Many homeopathically trained GPs use Rhus tox as their first line treatment for cold sores around the lips, also herpetic in origin, but any inflamed, intensely itchy rash, especially if there are fluid-filled blisters (like some forms of eczema) can benefit. The itch is often better from bathing with scalding hot water.*

There are other features which are hard to fit into this analogical approach (looking at the characteristics of the way the remedy substance fits into the natural world and comparing it with the way a disease fits into a human life). A feature of Rhus tox is said to be that there may be a bright red tip to the tongue. On the food desires front, there can be a craving for cold drinks and especially cold milk.”

http://britishhomeopathic.org/charity/how-we-can-help/articles/homeopathic-medicines/r/rhus-tox/

*note: I can’t imagine anything better for a horrible fluid-filled blistering rash than to immerse the affected part(s) in scalding hot water.
**I’m surprised Lancaster didn’t put Chris Cuomo on Lyssinum, to relieve any tendency to be barking mad.

I’ve had enough encounters with poison ivy to say “oh heeelllll no!” to anything, even something homeopathic, that has poison ivy in it.

Gah, I’m itchy just thinking about it.

Take a bow, medical experts and sceptics!

The White House may cut back on their daily briefings on Covid after receiving backlash for his stupidity on Thursday; there was a shortened episode on Friday and NONE this weekend. MSNBC

While visiting the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month, Trump boasted, “I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

He should have. Our hospitals would be in much better shape if Trump were in one of them.

https://theweek.com/articles/910593/president-unwell

It’s president-45, not president-1. Shouldn’t those others in the administration have a good grasp on the 25’th amendment by now?

“The White House may cut back on their daily briefings on Covid after receiving backlash for his stupidity on Thursday; there was a shortened episode on Friday and NONE this weekend. MSNBC”
He’s baaaaaccckkkk!

You seem to be a victim of media spin.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/04/24/fake-news-trump-didnt-tell-people-to-inject-bleach-or-lysol-into-their-veins-to-fight-coronavirus-n385980

“So, is it true? Did Trump tell people to drink Lysol and inject bleach into themselves to fight coronavirus?

You be the judge. here are the remarks in question:

[Trump] So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.

ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.

THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

Trump wasn’t telling people to drink or inject bleach — he was asking whether or not it would be possible to clean inside the body with a similar disinfectant. He also insisted, “you’re going to have to use medical doctors with” any such practice. In other words, “don’t try this at home, kids.”

Those remarks make even more sense when put in their broader context. Trump was asking William Bryan, acting under secretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), to clarify the results of coronavirus testing with the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. Bryan reported that “the virus dies quickest in the presence of direct sunlight,” noting “a very significant difference when it gets hit with UV rays.” He also reported that “bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go.”

Trump was asking questions to clarify the results of a study — a study that should give Americans hope about combatting the virus.

When Anderson Cooper interviewed FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn about Trump’s remarks, he was visibly taken aback when Hahn defended the president’s questions.

“So I think the data that were presented at the press conference today were really important in terms of what kills the virus, and I believe the president was asking a question that many Americans are asking, which is, ‘okay, this is what kills the virus, it’s a physical agent, in this case UV light. How could that be applied to kill the virus, for example, in a human being?’ We have plenty of examples in medicine where light therapy has been used for treatment of certain diseases,” Hahn said.

“So it’s a natural question that I as a doctor would have expected to hear from someone as a natural extension of the data that were presented,” the FDA commissioner added.

Cooper was speechless. Why didn’t this doctor just rip into Trump’s oh-so-dangerous questions? Didn’t he know that Trump told Americans to drink Lysol and inject bleach into their veins?

Cooper struggled to regain his footing. “Are you concerned at all, from a medical standpoint, of somebody injecting themselves with a disinfectant or hearing what the president said and trying to experiment on themselves?”

Hahn acknowledged, “We certainly wouldn’t want, as a physician, someone to take matters in their own hands. I think this is something that a patient would want to talk to their physician about.” Trump never suggested otherwise.

Dilbert creator Scott Adams called Trump’s comments a national IQ test.

“Now it is true that the president was unclear, but if you understand the context, what he meant made perfect sense,” Adams explained. “So there had been some recent reports about a type of light, a far UV light … that could kill virus. We know it’s a real thing in the outside world.”

“More recently, somebody has suggested that you could put the light in a ventilator-type tube, so when you’re using the ventilator you could be simultaneously” exposed to the light, he added. “How dumb would you have to be to interpret it as, ‘he was asking the public should you inject bleach and isopropyl alcohol into your veins?’”

White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany responded to the media reports with an important statement clarifying Trump’s remarks.

“President Trump has repeatedly said that Americans should consult with medical doctors regarding coronavirus treatment, a point that he emphasized again during yesterday’s briefing. Leave it to the media to irresponsibly take President Trump out of context and run with negative headlines,” McEnany said.

While much of the media spin was egregious, it is true that Lysol warned customers not to ingest or inject its products into their veins. With the media misrepresenting Trump’s questions, it seems the company wanted to avoid any apparent liability for any stupid decisions that might occur. If anyone chooses to drink Lysol after this press conference, however, the media spin will be far more culpable than Trump.”

You should retract your article. If you have any care for the truth and are truly non-partisan you will.

Have you read the post? Because if you do, it quotes directly what Trump said and addresses how to interpret it.

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