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What Plandemic left out about Judy Mikovits’ wild conspiracy mongering

Last week, the “Plandemic” video went viral with conspiracy theories about COVID-19. What it left out were some of Judy Mikovits’ other conspiracy theories! Here’s a hint: They involve glyphosate, vaccines, and plutonium!

Last week, I wrote about Plandemic, a viral video featuring disgraced scientist turned antivaxxer turned COVID-19 “Fire Fauci” conspiracy theorist and grifter Dr. Judy Mikovits. You’d think that, after a 6,000-word takedown of that 26 minutes of disinformation-filled conspiracyfest of a video there wouldn’t be anything left for me to say, but, hey, it’s Orac. There’s always something left to say! In this case, the reason is that, as bonkers as Plandemic was, it turns out that the director of the video, Mikki Willis, apparently restrained the ever excitable Dr. Mikovits to make her appear far more reasonable than she actually is during the video in which she promoted her book Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science and kept referring to the COVID-19 pandemic as a “plandemic.”

I learned this from three other sources, a podcast interview on the Autism One website from February which showed that, even three months ago and early in the pandemic, Mikovits had skillfully pivoted from antivaccine nonsense (at the time, she was spreading HPV vaccine pseudoscience) to COVID-19 grift (although at the time the virus and disease had not yet acquired their current names SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, respectively). The second source is a video she made for Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.‘s antivaccine group Children’s Health Defense to promote her conspiracy theories about Anthony Fauci. The third source is her appearance at an online quackfest known as the Health Freedom Summit. This last one requires registration to have access to the videos free for a few days. If you want permanent access to the two days worth of videos from quacks and antivaccine “luminaries” like RFK Jr., Del Bigtree, James Lyons-Weiler (who, I note, was in on the COVID-19 grift in January), and more, it’ll cost you $69. Free is good enough for me, as I don’t care if the video goes away the instant I hit “publish” on this post. I’ll give you a brief preview, though, just a taste to make you (hopefully) want to keep reading. Mikovits thinks that chemtrails and plutonium are fueling the pandemic, along with vaccines, glyphosate, and retroviruses (of course).

A plague of misunderstanding of how NIH grants work

The first part I want to look at is the rest of Mikovits’ conspiracy theory about Anthony Fauci, related in her video for Children’s Health Defense posted last month when her book was released:

The video starts out doing just what the Plandemic video did, pumping up Dr. Mikovits as an authority by listing her degrees and work history, finishing by listing her as a “target of Dr. Anthony Fauci”. Dr. Fauci, of course, has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) since 1984 and has emerged as a key figure in the federal response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Given that he is one of the federal officials trying to keep the federal response as science-based as possible, he has been the target of conspiracy theories and political attacks, of which this is yet another one. The video goes on to accuse Fauci thusly:

In Washington DC Fauci’s tactics are an open secret. Intimidation. Bullying. And reckless disregard for the health and safety of the American people.

Dr. Judy Mikovits was one of the most skilled scientists of her generation. She had a 20-year collaboration with Frank Ruscetti, a pioneer in the field of human retro virology.

Seeing an antivaccine organization accuse anyone of a “reckless disregard for the health and safety of the American people” fried yet another one of my irony meters. Once again, we see the claim that Mikovits is “one of the most skilled scientists of her generation”. As I said last time when I discussed her, I’ve been unable to find anything to support this characterization of Mikovits. It’s also rather odd to refer to a 20-year collaboration with Dr. Ruscetti. While it’s true that Mikovits worked in Ruscetti’s laboratory at the NIH for most of a 21 year period (1980 to 2001), the first several of those years she only had a bachelor’s degree and worked as a technician, for four or five years she was a graduate student, and the remaining years were spent as, in essence, a postdoctoral fellow in Ruscetti’s laboratory. This was not a collaboration of equals. Mikovits was always Ruscetti’s subordinate, at least while she was at the NIH, although the two did collaborate from 2006-2009, the time period when Mikovits was director of the Whittemore Peterson Institute for Neuro-Immune Disease and doing the later-retracted research reporting that a retrovirus (XMRV) was associated with and might cause chronic fatigue syndrome. It’s also frequently claimed that her PhD thesis revolutionized the treatment of HIV/AIDS, saving millions of lives. I’ve yet to be able to find evidence that this claim is true, either.

In this video, Mikovits repeats the same accusation she made in Plandemic. Since I’ve already discussed how ridiculous her accusation was that Fauci would have tried to bully a lab technician fresh out of college to provide her with a manuscript in press last week, I’ll skip this part and move on to the second accusation against Fauci, one that was also made in Plandemic but that she elaborates on more here:

Mikovits: In 2006 I co-founded and developed the first neuroimmune disease institute to study the cause and treatments of chronic fatigue syndrome.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome became epidemic in the 1980s. Doctors dismissed the ailment as psychosomatic “yuppie flu.” CFS primarily struck women. The medical community assumed they were physically and emotionally fragile and cracked under the pressure of corporate jobs.

Dr. Mikovits discovered that 67% of women affected with CFS carried a mouse virus–called XMRV– Xenotropic Murine Leukemia related Virus–that appeared in healthy women only 4% of the time. XMRV is also associated with cancers like prostate, breast, ovarian, leukemia, and multiple myeloma. Many women with XMRV go on to have children with autism.

Of course, one notes that no one was able to replicate this finding and that, ultimately, Mikovits’ results were spurious and almost certainly due to contamination. Children’s Health Defense also conveniently fails to note how Mikovits treated the chronic fatigue syndrome patient-derived cells, but not control cells, with a chemical that activated their retroviruses.

Next:

Mikovits: Then in 2011, our research strongly suggested that it entered the human virome through a contaminated blood supply and vaccines.

Other researchers linked the first CFS outbreak to a polio vaccine given to doctors and nurses that resulted in the “1934 Los Angeles County Hospital Epidemic.” That vaccine was cultivated on pulverized mouse brains. Retroviruses from dead animals can survive in cell lines and permanently contaminate vaccines.

XMRV is so hazardous that the mere presence of mouse tissue in a laboratory can contaminate other tissues in the same room.

That last line cracked me up, because the reference cited basically ends up with a mea culpa admitting that the finding of XMRV in blood samples from patients with chronic fatigue syndrome was the result of laboratory contamination. As for the supposed “first outbreak” of CFS due to a polio vaccine, the reference linked to is discussing epidemic myalgic encephalitis, an alternate name for chronic fatigue syndrome. While it’s true that there have been outbreaks of CFS associated with viral illnesses, including polio, none of this demonstrates that retroviruses cause the syndrome, much less that vaccines containing retroviruses do. I can’t help but note that there are no studies cited to support her claims, not even her own.

Unsurprisingly, this “brave maverick doctor” was going to sound the alarm, but claims to have been stifled by Anthony Fauci:

Mikovits: We recognized that this mouse retrovirus was causing an alarming national health crisis. That is if the blood supply and vaccines were heavily contaminated with mouse retroviruses of many strains.

As Dr. Mikovits and her team prepared to sound the alarm, Dr. Fauci used his power to silence her.

Mikovits: What Tony Fauci, Ian Lipkin and Harold Varmus did was pressure me to be silent and withdraw our manuscript. I refused again.

Anthony Fauci gave his own career and the vaccine program priority above the health and safety of all Americans.

Mikovits: When I refused to be silent, Dr. Fauci stepped in and ordered that my computers and notebooks be confiscated and orchestrated the retraction of our Science paper.

Dr. Fauci abused his power and misused his office.

Mikovits: He then removed all of my funding and prevented me from getting a job in government research from 2012 forward.

Hundreds of millions of Americans may have received vaccines contaminated with XMRV.

Anthony Fauci has failed us

Are you prepared to trust him?

Yes, because Mikovits is a crank.

Let’s unpack these claims a bit. Her conspiracy theory has evolved in a convenient manner to include Dr. Anthony Fauci. What is she talking about? I don’t know for sure, but I can make an educated guess. What tipped me off is the claim that Fauci “removed all my funding”. There’s a tool that those of us who apply for government research grants know about called NIH RePORTER. It’s a searchable database of all NIH grants ever awarded going back around 20 years. Entering Mikovits’ name into the database easily found every NIH grant she’s ever had, the relevant one being “New Strategies to Decipher the Pathophysiology of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome“, with the grantee being the Nevada Center for Biomedical Research, which was where the Whittemore Peterson Institute was housed. This was an R01 grant whose start date was September 1, 2010, which implied to me that it was based, at least in part, on preliminary data that resulted in Mikovits’ 2009 Science paper. This grant, unsurprisingly given that it was examining possible viral causes of chronic fatigue syndrome, was administered by the NIAID, the Institute Dr. Fauci has led for 36 years.

Notably, Dr. Mikovits is listed as principal investigator of this grant for only two years, but the grant was for five years. For years three through five, someone named Vincent Lombardi is listed as the principal investigator. So what happened? If you know Mikovits’ story, it’s obvious. Mikovits was fired from the WPI in September 2011, which would have been during year two of the grant. At this point, it’s necessary to understand that NIH grants go to institutions, not people. While it’s true that there is a “gentleman’s agreement” among universities in which universities generally let investigators take NIH grants with them if they switch jobs and voluntarily sign off on transferring it to the new institution where a researcher takes a new job, that agreement doesn’t apply when a researcher is fired for cause. In that case, the institution will keep the grant and assign it to a new investigator to serve as PI for the remainder of the grant period. That’s almost certainly what happened here. No intervention from the NIAID, much less Dr. Fauci himself, was necessary. In fact, it’s highly unlikely that Fauci even knew about the change in PI for this grant, as this sort of reassignment is handled at a much lower level than Institute director.

It’s a common misconception that NIH grants go to individuals, largely because universities and most institutes receiving them nearly always let individual researchers take the grants with them when they change jobs. Even some scientists don’t realize that the institution is not obligated to let an investigator take a grant to a new job. Moreover, in the standard study section process, which grants are funded is based on merit, based on the priority scores given the grant applications submitted during a given application cycle. In fact, in her Health Freedom Summit video (discussed in the last section), Mikovits rants even more about how Fauci took “her grant” away from her to punish her. No he didn’t. She was fired; so what almost certainly happened is that her former employer reassigned the grant to a different principal investigator, because it was never “her” grant to begin with.

What about Mikovits’ other claims about Fauci, that he had orchestrated the seizure of her computers and lab notebooks? That’s so ridiculously over-the-top that I laughed out loud! Fauci prevented her from getting a job in government research from 2012 onward? That claim is just silly. Fauci doesn’t have that power. He could make sure she’s never hired at NIAID, but that’s about it. It’s also possible that if the NIH found that she had committed fraud or other misconduct with the grant it could have barred her from receiving NIH funding. Such bans are rarely more than five years though. I know of cases where a PI committed research fraud and was only barred from receiving NIH grants for five years.

Of course, the real reason Mikovits couldn’t get a job in research after that was most likely because she had had a major paper retracted due to bad science and suspicion of research fraud, had been fired from her previous job and prosecuted for having stolen research notebooks and flash drives with research data from her former employer. Even though she was not convicted, she did lose a civil suit over the theft. In other words, what university, government agency—or even private company—would want to hire someone with such a record, especially someone who had started to rise to prominence in the antivaccine movement? As a researcher she was tainted goods. If she hadn’t found antivax grift, she might have had to go back to bartending.

Early COVID-19 conspiracy mongering: Coronavirus is part of a cover-up!

As far as Mikovits’ early COVID-19 grift, I’m not going to go through the whole Autism One podcast interview, because she repeats a lot of the nonsense that she’s been repeating all along. Instead, I want to focus on just one part, while mentioning that, to her COVID-19 is all a big scam, a deception, for the CDC to cover up its “plague of corruption” over XMRV-contaminated vaccines. Basically, she claims that the CDC his hyping COVID-19 as a threat, as it hyped Ebola and H1N1 before it, to distract the public from all the health problems caused (she says) by “contaminated vaccines” and, of course, to pave the way towards forced vaccination. I’m not kidding when I characterize her interview as a “rant”. Just listen for yourself if you don’t believe me. To her, the coronavirus is part of a worldwide cover-up:

Yes, they’ve unleashed a virus that can be dangerous to some people. There’s no doubt about it. There’s a coronavirus, but those coronaviruses are always out there. God only knows when this virus hit the population. They just needed a cover-up of the December 2019 revelation caught on tape at the WHO International Summit on Vaccine Safety, where the CDC, the WHO, the FDA officials all admitted no safety testing at all on vaccines, any of them, in the 21st century schedule, in the schedule that they’re taking away human rights, taking away our ability to go to school. It’s severely injuring our children, causing death, destroying families’ lives, and nobody’s paying for it, except for the victims of the plague of corruption. Isn’t funny that the doctor at this Chinese facility is dead? He didn’t die of coronavirus. They killed him!

Indeed, it’s hard to keep up with all the conspiracies, although it is easy to point out that, no, WHO, CDC, and FDA scientists did not “admit” that there was no vaccine safety testing for any of the vaccines on the current schedule. They just didn’t. Seriously, though, I wonder if Plandemic would have gone as viral as it did if Mikki Willis hadn’t judiciously edited the really wild stuff that Mikovits routinely says out of the video and kept her much calmer than she is in this interview, where she’s ranting her way into full tinfoil hat conspiracy territory, repeating the phrase “plague of corruption” many times.

Health Freedom Summit: Pollution, plutonium, and conspiracies

I now come to her Health Freedom Summit video interview. It’s the second interview of Day One, if you really have the stomach to register under a throwaway email address to have access for three days. As was the case for Plandemic, the video starts out by touting her credentials, describing her as a great scientist of her generation (which she wasn’t and isn’t) and asking her about her experience working for a time during the 1980s at the BSL4 facility at Fort Detrick, MD, which was the center of the US bioweapons program during the Cold War. A BSL4 facility is a facility with the highest level of pathogen containment; such facilities house the deadliest viruses and bacteria for research.

One thing that comes through during the entire interview is that Mikovits has a very high opinion of…Mikovits. For instance, she started to say that she had developed the first immune therapy, interferon-α, before correcting herself and saying that she was “part of the team” that had developed interferon-α. Her persecution complex is very strong as well, going way back to the 1980s. For example, she notes that she worked at Upjohn Pharmaceuticals for a while, claiming that she was hired to demonstrate that its then-new genetically modified bovine growth hormone was safe for human cells. She claims that bovine growth hormone and GMOs “actually did harm human cells,” which is how she explains why her tenure at Upjohn was so brief and she left to go to graduate school.

The conspiracies and dubious claims come fast and furious after that, and as the video goes on Mikovits gets more and more animated, to the point that at times she’s indistinguishable from the crank ranting on a park bench. One particularly bizarre thing she says early on involves making a big deal out of the difference between disease (COVID-19) and the causative coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), stating that COVID-19 means “Coronavirus Infectious Disease 2019” but “does not mean that SARS-CoV-2 causes that disease.” In essence, she denies that SARS-CoV-2 causes COVID-19, stating that going on about how it supposedly doesn’t fulfill Koch’s postulates or the Bradford-Hill criteria for causality. She further denies that the disease started in the Wuhan fish market, embracing the conspiracy theory that the disease came from the Wuhan virology laboratory. (There’s no good evidence that is true, and, in fact, there is no sign that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered or modified in a lab, just based on the analysis of its nucleotide sequence. This was established quite conclusively a couple of months ago.)

Next up, Mikovits shows more than a bit of racism, claiming that most people who got COVID-19 early on had never had contact with Chinese people, mentioning how maybe it makes sense that that’s how Americans first got it in New York or Los Angeles, but not in Ventura, going on about how she doesn’t remember the last time she came in contact with a Chinese person. (Really?) Apparently she’s never heard of community spread. She also repeats her dangerous claim not to wear a mask, saying:

Viruses don’t float through the air, infectious particles. And I don’t mean RNA. So when they do that throat swab and that nasal swab and they amplify using polymerase chain reaction PCR, they take a very little piece of the virus, a little piece of the nucleic acid, RNA, and it’s not very big, and then they amplify it logarithmically, like a zillion times. But they had to scrape the cells in your throat in order to get the RNA out, which is not an infectious particle. It’s RNA. They had to scrape your throat to find that RNA and then amplify it a zillion times, how can a healthy person like you and me, who aren’t coughing, get that out of my nose, across six feet?…You can’t spread it the way they say it spreads. So the masks are hurting the people wearing them, and I can’t say that enough.

This is a virologist? Apparently she’s unaware that newer tests can detect the virus in saliva and that we humans spray saliva droplets just by talking. Apparently she’s also unaware of the difference between a tiny number of viral particles being able to start an infection and needing more material to get sufficient RNA to detect unique nucleic acid sequences from the virus. There truly is no facepalm big enough for this, but I’ll bring the biggest I have at the moment:

Godzilla facepalm for Plandemic
Plandemic gets the Godzilla facepalm!

Even cluelessly, Mikovits not only says don’t wear a mask, but that if you’re having problems you just need oxygen. Gee, as if doctors didn’t think of giving oxygen to a hypoxic person whose blood oxygen level is low because his lungs are injured and aren’t exchanging gas as well as normal. I think the facepalm is in order again:

Godzilla facepalm for Plandemic
Plandemic gets the Godzilla facepalm again!

At this point, Mikovits goes on a truly puzzling rant in which she first says that her husband can’t wear a mask because he has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, attributing it to a bout of pneumonia that he suffered in his 30s. (His COPD must be pretty bad if he can’t wear a mask.) After this, she goes on about how “lots of things cause pneumonia,” from bacteria, to viruses (mentioning influenza, coronavirus, respiratory syncytial virus, and others), claiming that they’re calling a lot of other things COVID-19, accusing doctors of lying about COVID-19 and trying to exaggerate the number of cases and deaths. (One. More. Time. If anything, we are grossly undercounting the number of COVID-19 cases and deaths.) As for the multiple causes of pneumonia, viral pneumonia has very different characteristics from bacterial pneumonia, something we as physicians learn rather early on in medical school.

She then relates how she jogged past a grocery store on the way home to do an interview, noting that she can’t go in their to buy food without donning a mask but she can get a flu shot there. (“I’ll take non sequiturs for $800, Alex.”) In any event, her whole thesis is that the COVID-19 pandemic is being driven by vaccines, asking why would she want to prevent the “Wuhan flu” by giving herself another kind of flu, repeating her lie that by wearing a mask you amplify the infection. To her, the evil agenda behind the “pandemic” is to push vaccines and kill old people and sick people like her husband.

But it’s more than that. To her the plandemic “can have to do with” pollution, 5G, GMOs, glyphosate, chemtrails, aluminum, and…get this…plutonium, which she describes as “dropping into our environment over time as we blow up satellites as, she said, was done last summer.” That’s right. Mikovits thinks that plutonium from satellites is one of the things fueling the pandemic. She cites a Russian radiation spill and claims that the symptoms of COVID-19 are not the sorts of symptoms that coronaviruses normally cause but rather that they look more like the symptoms of plutonium poisoning.

Picking up that ball of ridiculous conspiracy and running with it, Mikovits enthusiastically elaborates on her claim, stating that coronaviruses don’t cause high fever because RNA viruses don’t cause high fever, which made me laugh out loud. Again.RNA viruses don’t cause high fevers? The measles virus is an RNA virus. The influenza virus is an RNA virus. Ebola is an RNA virus. And this is a virologist? She denies that coronaviruses can infect the brain, and claims that the neurologic symptoms of COVID-19 are more akin to Lyme disease. She denies that asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic COVID-19 patients can spread the disease. Why? Because their immune system is clearing the disease. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry at this point. For one thing, we know that it’s not true that asymptomatic COVID-19 carriers can’t spread the virus, and for another thing, contrary to Mikovits’ claim that you clear the virus and are immune (making natural immunity better, of course!), we don’t yet whether that COVID-19 infection, be it asymptomatic, mildly symptomatic, or severe, results in long-lasting immunity to the virus.

Unsurprisingly, she also thinks that if you are exposed to glyphosate and don’t eat organic foods, you’re more likely to get very sick from COVID-19, and that it’s simple to treat it with oxygen, plus all manner of woo, including vitamin C, vitamin D, and all sorts of other nonsense. Dangerously, she claims that “kids aren’t getting the disease” because they’re getting the infection, clearing it, and developing “natural herd immunity,” which would actually protect all of us if we were to let children go back to school and spread the virus among themselves. (Seriously, she actually claimed that! Of course, she neglects to mention that the cost of “natural herd immunity” is death and disease on a massive scale.) I marvel again that she’s a virologist, because she cites the flu vaccine as an example of why vaccines don’t work because you have to get the flu vaccine every year, claiming that once you have had influenza you should be immune for life. (Apparently the concept of different strains of flu is now beyond her in her current state.)

At the point where she started describing the “plandemic” as a means of getting rid of the elderly and saying that she will not vaccinate and exterminate her husband or other elderly people, even I was having a hard time continuing to listen. Fortunately, the last third of the interview was just her repeating many of the same conspiracy theories about Anthony Fauci and her being “persecuted” for her bogus finding that XMRV caused chronic fatigue syndrome. I’m thankful for small mercies.

The bottom line: Plandemic was mild compared to the real Judy Mikovits

Mikovits is far more of a crank than even I had suspected. If anything, Plandemic presented her as far more reasonable than she actually is. All you have to do is to look at her ranting in the podcast interview. Normally, I’d view this as a good thing because it should be obvious to any reasonable people how far off the plantation Mikovits has wandered with her “plandemic” and her conspiracy theories, but, sadly, in this age of QAnon, I can no longer assume that. That being said, what made the “Plandemic” video so effective was that the filmmaker toned Mikovits’ tinfoil hat tendencies down enough and edited out the really nutty stuff, like the claim that plutonium is causing COVID-19 and that the disease is an intentional distraction from the “admission” by the WHO and CDC that vaccines aren’t tested for safety, keeping the more difficult to check stuff that sounds plausible and appealing to emotion, all to sell books and the mother of all conspiracy theories.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

231 replies on “What Plandemic left out about Judy Mikovits’ wild conspiracy mongering”

Yeah, just when I venture out hoping that people would come to realize that a serious situation would merit following serious science/data my hopes a cruelly dashed.

It unfortunately supports the conclusion I came to a year or so back that Social Media has weaponized stupidity. (I’m a slow learner).

BTW came across your blog recently and give a big thumbs up to the ORAC reference. I can still remember watching the original show as a kid. Avon was wonderfully evil.

I don’t think Avon was evil. I don’t even think he was amoral. He had a code; it was just not a conventional moral code.

The Health Freedom Summit videos have all been removed. Interesting. Where can one find her interview to validate the claims in this article?

She exhibits all of the hallmarks of a charlatan/ grafter:

–Although she does have real degrees, she inflates her credentials relative to Dr Ruscetti, especially early in her career.
–she portrays herself as “one of the most skilled scientists…”
–she dreams up an adversarial relationship to Dr Fauci ( an expert who is currently in the news) – how he “pressured her”, interfered with her career, removed funding etc.
–displays herself as a rebel against his authority ” I refused..” Brave Maverickism at its best.
–glosses over her probable firing instead suggests she couldn’t work because of retaliation by The Man ( Men?); perhaps a hint of sexism ?
— her interest spreads to other areas of woo-fraught concern- vaccines, glyphosate, vitamin therapy etc.
— she co-authors with a well-known loon; RFK jr supports her
— appears on well-trafficked woo-sites like PRN, High Wire

What I left out:

Mikovits- like many brave mavericks- uncovered or discovered secrets that the Establishment doesn’t know, denies or is actively trying to suppress.
There are documents or data that illustrate just how clueless/ criminal the authorities are. Studies that show vaccines cause autism or GMOs cause cancer or viruses cause various symptoms/ illnesses, heretofore unsuspected by SBM
Thus, the Brave Maverick is also a Paradigm Shifter .A revolutionary.
Each and every quack has a secret that changes everything

–she dreams up an adversarial relationship to Dr Fauci ( an expert who is currently in the news) – how he “pressured her”, interfered with her career, removed funding etc.

Of all the conspiracy ranting, this stuck out to me for some reason. I guess because Dr. Fauci is practically a household name now, Mikovitz had to invent a well-known adversary to elevate her status as a maverick whistle-blower or whatever. I’ve seen her speak in person and she has the demeanour and appearance of someone not well at all.

Seriously? He has had the same job since 1984… it is not lie he is in it for the money since he has been a government employee for over forty five years. They only hate him because he speaks from actual evidence, So sad.

— her interest spreads to other areas of woo-fraught concern- vaccines, glyphosate, vitamin therapy etc.

“Round up the usual suspects” seems so much an apt description of her interests…

a little piece of the nucleic acid, RNA, and it’s not very big, and then they amplify it logarithmically, like a zillion times

Wow. She’s apparently not comfortable enough around math to know how stupid that sounds. Logarithms diverge very slowly. Amplifying logarithmically would be a very slow and inefficient amplification. I would rather amplify something exponentially, or even geometrically. And, as nobody around here questions, PCR is exponential.

And it’s not a question of the “piece of RNA” being small, but of being in low quantities.
A virus’s full genome is actually a pretty big piece of RNA (or DNA, for DNA viruses). There are plenty of smaller mRNA in cells. Coding for a single small protein, instead of containing the blueprint for half-a-dozen medium-sized or bigger proteins.

Mikovits et al (2007): “Preclinical development of Aneustat (OMN54): a multifunctional multi-targeted natural product derivative with anti-tumor, anti-inflammatory and immuno-modulatory activity”.
https://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/6/11_Supplement/C67

“Aneustat / OMN54” is a piece of TCM quackery, a mixture of herbs and fungi (Ganoderma lucidum, Salvia miltiorrhiza and Scutellaria barbata), rebranded with a clinical-sounding name to increase its appeal to Western suckers and promoted as a cure for prostate cancer. The company promoting it is now Omnitura , previusly “Genyous”.

I was not previously aware that the “vice president of drug development for Genyous Biomed” part of Mikovits’ biography was as a TCM scammer.

The procedures that NIH follows in the event a PI is fired for cause are generally similar to the procedures NASA uses (a former work colleague of mine was fired for cause, and his grants were transferred to other investigators in the group). I don’t know about virology, but my field is small enough that the major players know each other, and word certainly got around about my ex-colleague’s firing.

Depending on the circumstances of Mikovits’ firing, she might have been subject to suspension or debarment, which certainly would have prevented her from being hired in any other position dependent on government grant funding. I am not 100% sure but strongly suspect this is the case with my ex-colleague (who no longer works in the field). But I doubt that Fauci himself would have made that decision personally.

She was fired by the Whittemore Peterson Institute, though – the Whittemores’ vanity laboratory. That resulted in the loss of her NIH grant, but I do not know if it would result in any kind of formal NIH sanction. The informal opinion of her peers would be enough.

I suppose it’s possible that the NIH could have barred her from receiving further grant funding, but such bans are, all too sadly, uncommon. I’ve heard of cases of PIs who committed gross research fraud who were only banned from receiving NIH funding for five years. Such bans also only come after an investigation by the grantee’s institution and the NIH. Most likely, it was just her bad reputation after her firing and arrest that was enough to keep any organization from wanting to hire her.

Her NIH grant post dated the Science paper, so it probably was not affected by the fraud in the paper. Her firing, the identification of the fraud and Mikovits spinning out of control were all in the news during 2011. It is unlikely anyone was going to touch her with a barge pole, particularly as this was the only thing she was known for.

I’ve read a couple of your blogs today for the first time (this one after visiting one of your musings from 1915). As someone with some science and social service background, I have to comment that I look for balanced empirical analysis in the sources I come to respect, but I also honor honest anecdotal evidence documented over time. While I don’t seek out causes to judge self-serving and fraudulent conspiracy, neither due I deny the proven historical reality of such. Your analyzed judgements appear quite one-sided and pejoratively biased against those you disagree with, and while blogs can be whatever their authors want to make them, I don’t find that your arguments in this or the other piece I read in entirety worth returning for. If you find some chaff, don’t deny so absolutely the wheat that might be buried under it, particularly when others claim to have found it. At this critical time, we need honest and fully unbiased sources more than ever. Thanks for considering.

Thank you for your insightful tone trolling, Mr. Urban. I am sure Orac will take your advice and suggest you do not have read his humble blog.

Funding agencies, as non-profit organizations (often 501c3 entities), can, by law, only give to other non-profits. This allows them to retain their tax-favored status. A university or research institute is such a non-profit, an individual is not. That is why funding agencies make gifts or grants to the Institution, not to individuals such as the PIs on a grant proposal. If they do otherwise, the IRS will cancel their tax-favored status because they will be in violation of tax law. It is also one reason they require detailed grant reporting-as how else ls is the IRS supposed to know the funds went to a non-profit?

OT — couldn’t those working in very dangerous bioactive environs like testing, intubating, making and studying now do so remotely (especially as Musk’s Starlink is coming online with super low (18-25 ms latency (em is faster through air and vacuum than a fibre line which is usually about .6c))? Such as with Valve Index, HTC Vive, or Oculus Rift combined with advanced and repurposed teledildonics?

Trump has invoked the DPI, order those companies to thrive and put the sex dolls to work (I hear they are getting pretty nimble now). They can even speak and simulate breath, even require their consent. Damn lawyers, I hear the ‘oral clause’ is a bit… sticky.

I wonder if she had (or thought she had) CFS and the docs were “dismissive”. I’ve known more than one middle-aged woman who went full-on woo after such an incident. Even Britt Hermes was draw to Naturopathy after this sort of thing. The women I know started by dabbling and in a few years’ time they had gone over the edge and into the conspiracy abyss.

There was never a hint of that when she was a superstar of the ME/CFS community, though. Her appeal was always “At last, an outsider who takes us seriously!”

She never mentioned it when promising the world to the CFS community. She had previously been dabbling with the anti-vaxxers even before the wheels fell of the XMRV wagon.

I am guessing she was always a bit this way inclined and after her firing, courting the woosters was the only way she could get attention.

Mikovits: What Tony Fauci, Ian Lipkin and Harold Varmus did was pressure me to be silent and withdraw our manuscript. I refused again.

This is especially rich as Lipkin leaned over backwards to get Mikovits’ participation in the cross-laboratory attempt to replicate her XMRV claims. He had to overcome the skepticism of the other teams, and put his own reputation on the line reassuring everyone that he thought she was an honest good-faith researcher.

XMRV is also associated with cancers like prostate, breast, ovarian, leukemia, and multiple myeloma. Many women with XMRV go on to have children with autism.

As noted in the last thread, Mikovits conceded in multiple interviews after the cross-laboratory replication attempt that “XMRV is not a human pathogen”. She agreed that the false positive was the result of contamination. In her 2014 presentation to AutismOne, she presented slides to show that her own blood samples from ME/CFS donors were 100% XMRV-free, and argued that the contamination had been committed by someone in Silverman’s laboratory.

Smut Clyde: Oh boy do I remember that! I think that was the first full on knock-down drag-out science fight I’d seen and it was … epic.

I wonder what ERV is up to these days?

I’m wondering what happened to the dead-end Mikovits fan-bois who were doggedly defending her XMRV claims, in comment threads at ERV and at Virology and in the ME/CFS support forums.

PSA:

Loose cloudflare. Really. Really, really. It is killing rank, reach, and relevence. And it is damn confusing. From ‘DDOS’ to 39 comments in a day??

IDK, It is so fucked that maybe only I don’t see any interaction here and others do. But, I think it is probably not that is the case..

From ‘DDOS’ to 39 comments in a day??

The flying bonobo squad seem to have tuckered themselves out. Most of them probably don’t even know that there’s a new post.

It seems so. Could it really have been a hired russian troll-farm after all? Those silly Trumpsters, allways a’colludin.

On caching, I suppose it is not Cloudflare, per say, but something must be misconfigured somewhere — It is just really strange to see 15 comments, make a comment, and the result is a delivered snapshot with 13 comments. Come back an hour later and it might say 11. Grr.

At this point, I would guess that more than one caching scheme is going on and maybe something like wp-rocket is stepping on Cloudflare’s.

Finally, setting Edge Cache TTL will define the maximum period of time Cloudflare should keep cached files before getting them back from the origin web server.

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/236166048-Caching-Static-HTML-with-WordPress-WooCommerce

Cloudflare’s Anycast network brings content geographically closer to your visitors to reduce page load and latency.

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200172516-Understanding-Cloudflare-s-CDN

Naturally, it would have to be fixed on their end if that is the cause of the asynchronization.

If this comment goes through normally, I guess Orac figured it out and all is well again.

check, check. Normal yet? If not, then why not just flip off DDoS protection or whatever or switch back to unicast under such light traffic? I’m sure I’m just being an annoying nat now, but it is really bugging me:

Request header:

HTTP/2 200 OK
date: Tue, 12 May 2020 22:19:04 GMT
content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
vary: Accept-Encoding
x-pingback: https://respectfulinsolence.com/xmlrpc.php
link: ; rel=”https://api.w.org/”
link: ; rel=shortlink
x-varnish: HIT <– this means the page hit the cache and may be stale
age: Tue, 12 May 2020 21:28:21 GMT
cf-cache-status: DYNAMIC
expect-ct: max-age=604800, report-uri=”https://report-uri.cloudflare.com/cdn-cgi/beacon/expect-ct”
strict-transport-security: max-age=0; includeSubDomains; preload
server: cloudflare
cf-ray: 592784e96b17ec25-ATL
content-encoding: br
cf-request-id: 02ac9165e10000ec25bc3ec200000001
X-Firefox-Spdy: h2

^^ I have but little of a clue about what all that means or that CF even respects caching settings in the header but:

Caching

X The Age header’s value should be an integer. <– big red x??
i This response allows all caches to store it.
!! This response allows a cache to assign its own freshness lifetime.

https://redbot.org/?uri=https%3A%2F%2Frespectfulinsolence.com

Perhaps a solution that is not the simple one of loosing ‘anycast’ lies in one of these links:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Cache-Control

https://wpspeedmatters.com/caching-html-pages-at-the-edge-using-cloudflare/

peace

p.s. It is cute that the only plugin remaining is the one for frekkin emoji.

I turned off Cloudflare’s “under attack” mode on Saturday, after I was sure I wasn’t under DDoS attack. As long as the user experience is fine for the average user, I’m fine with it.

Well, I just made a successful, normal post down below.

Otherwise, I was going to suggest that maybe CF didn’t get the memo that you turned it off because it was laying around in a yet to be published stale cache somewhere. grins

As long as the user experience is fine for the average user,

But it is not fine. The ‘average user’ over the past >1000 comments doesn’t have a clue. Niether do the regulars. Thus the various double posts with “I’m glad that reappeared out of the ether?” and the uninitiated ~~”that is how you operate? you just delete my comment”? An hour after his comment was visible to most.

It is a problem.

x-varnish: STALE

Let me guess, nobody is seeing anything new until you manually purge the cache through the CF dashboard. Thought so.

Ahh, well. Perhaps it is just coincidence that the day you flipped that switch everything got fubar’d.

– You mean like that boy with the stick?

– Eh?

The boy with the stick.

Remember that massive
power blackout in the States?

The whole east coast
was out for about six hours.

They reckon this boy
was on his way home.

He was pissed off about something.

And he whacked this power pole
with all of his might.

And, at that instant,
his whole world went black.

And he thought he had done it.

— Api, The Quiet Earth, 1985

My hat goes off to you, sir. Your site worked before (for some values of worked) and I don’t think I’d ever before seen a wordpress {my impression is that, in general, it is kludgy and kinda sux} site as smooth as this one with anything like non-static content on it before save the posers that use discust for comments.

I took a peek at another gigantic site that also hides behind cloudflare (arstechnica.net/com) yet never seems to fuck it up…

access-control-allow-origin: *

cache-control: max-age=120

and in the request header:

Cache-Control: max-age=0

Orac, I don’t know your setup. Of this kind of stuff, I know but very little at all. But I’ll assume you have a hosting provider (perhaps on the cheap, as means allow) and you had them put you behind CF. IDK, i guess you could be running the whole operation off a laptop next to the Keurig machine, but I doubt that.

I ran across this:

Be aware that some web hosting services use caching plugins on the backend without letting the user know explicitly.

…This situation may also occur if you are using a managed WordPress hosting plan. Many managed WordPress hosting plans use server-side caching.

…If you are using a caching HTTP reverse proxy such as Varnish on your web server, edits to your files may not appear right away. Edits may become visible after some length of time when the cached version expires. You many need to tune your caching system in order to eliminate this issue.

Any good cache plugin will clear the cache when a post, page, or comment is published.

https://wordpress.org/support/article/i-make-changes-and-nothing-happens/#a-wordpress-cache-plugin

You may need to have your guy talk to one of those middle-men to fix it.

Doing a little A/B testing? Because this page has been better behaved than others, including the home page.

peace

Well, that also went right through. Like I said, this page seems to work better.

In the next five milliseconds in the future, where this will no longer be the case again, here is AutoHotKey:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autohotkey

Tell your guy to write a 5-line script using that language that ‘manually’ purges the cache on all pages every five minutes or so.

goddamit {sorry, oh lord. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I’m averting my eyes,o’lord. WELL, STOP IT.}! It gets purged and then somehow the ‘origin’? or the ‘proxy origin’ is still handing out stale pages!

Well. That went right through.

cf-cache-status: MISS
x-varnish: MISS

It is most confusing. But it worked all throughout the morning (even showed cf-cache status: HIT with the age a various number of seconds up to 1050) and then it did not. And return x-varnish: STALE sometimes.

I can only see what my browser sees; I can’t see how the sausage is made ’round the back, but ‘Varnish’ is some kind of logger, I take it? And I think that your ‘origin server’ is sometimes serving out stale pages to the cloudflare nodes.

I saw that there is a switch to make cloudflare respect your cache control parameters (dynamic was right out as it is heuristic and every server had a differing age).

That value 14400? That is four hours. For something psuedo-interactive, try 300 seconds — that is 5 minutes. All the interaction that I saw that worked right had the value 1440 which is 24 minutes; but I did not make comments that fast to check.

Also, my client cache (the browser) does not seem to be utilizing any cached assets in memory or on disk at all — CF does not care if they were to deliver How the West Was Won on every refresh but the load times are only marginally faster than when it was Comodo or whoever for the end user.

The correct method would be to validate cached data — which would hit the origin — and only pull down what is considered fresh from one of the anycast nodes.

And, depending on if you are using a wordpress plugin for management, I wasn’t really joking about your changes possibly being cached and delayed or missed.

You will figure it out, it worked great the first half of my day.

another refresh, another facepalm:

age: 3130

That is 52 minutes stale. 🤦 <– that tiny thing is a ‘facepalm emoji’

I’m staggered by how many appear hard wired to believe this crap, its almost like they are being willfully stupid to make a point that’s too subtle for me to get.

And the amount of people whining about censorship cos a lot of platforms refuse to host this nonsense, they clearly have no idea what censorship really means.

It’s times like these where it becomes fully evident that half of the people are, in fact, below average intelligence.

It could be more or less than half depending on where the median falls.

In any case, the problem isn’t one of intelligence since the issues are not all that difficult to understand. Blame the motivated reasoning of a vocal minority that confuses and raises doubts of many outside their immediate circle. Indications are that those doubts are not sticky.

I don’t think it’s stupidity; medical conspiracy theories gain the most traction in people who are otherwise really smart. But I do think that it’s the way peoples’ brains are hard-wired; if you believe in a conspiracy theory, you get to avoid the stress of either looking inwardly or outwardly for the “real” answer, and instead you get to tell yourself that you’re right, no matter what, even if additional evidence is brought before you.

There’s been research** that shows that people may be more likely to do nothing when making decisions such as about vaccination which might be perceived as dangerous.( This probably wouldn’t apply to Covid- which is itself a danger.)

Other factors include personality qualities, wanting to be different from the herd, believing in freedom ( not being controlled by experts/ authorities) or purity as primary concerns. Education itself is not predictive .

** I’m sure Dorit or someone else here can quote the exact study

Yes, I cant remember who said this precisely, but the gist of it is, ‘People believe in conspiracies for the simple reason that they can’t face or do not want to face, the idea that there is no plan, no guiding hand and that life for the most part is random and that control is an illusion.’

This is my first comment on this blog, I ended up here after a cousin put the “Plandemic” video on her Instagram stories, I don’t have any medical background so at first I was a bit scared but at the same time a bit skeptical, i knew she is antivaxx and the post was from an Instagram account called janny.organically, i click the link embedded in that account about vaccines and i was surprised that the first thing it says is “We are not doctors and in no way anything we write be taken as medical advice” (i guess this is written in advance so they don’t get in legal troubles) so i decided to do my own “research” and I have to say I was surprised by how many of these antivaxx pages are run by people with little experience in medicine (like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., he’s a lawyer for god’s sakes!!!!) I mean there’s a lot of naturopaths and followers of these practices but I wouldn’t consider them experts, it doesn’t help that there’s a lot of sites that put some scientific backed articles such as Vaccine Papers, but after reading both sides I have to say this…. although I agree that vaccines are not the cause of autism and other diseases, it is hard for people like me who don’t have a background in medicine to decide who to believe (especially when some studies go into cells and receptors) so I wouldn’t say it’s stupidity, I think the whole antivaxx movement is just after money and founded in government distrust, that being said I would like to thank a lot of people here like Science Mom, JustaTech, Orac and others with such background that take the time to explain some studies here for people like me and I urge you to keep doing it as tiring as it must be to answer the same questions over and over again, also I have a question, does vaccine ingredients change depending the country, im asking this cause Scandinavian countries seem to trust their governments more, Finland reports a 99% vaccination rate in children’s but it doesn’t seem to report higher rates of autism, so I was wondering if they have the same ingredients in their vaccines? I realize this may be a stupid question but I repeat, I do not have a medical background.

Ps. I’m Mexican so just ignore any grammatical errors. Gracias y que tengan buen día.

[Do] vaccine ingredients change depending the country[?]

I will try to answer this question as best I can.
Firstly, different countries vaccinate against different diseases. For example, South Africa has B.C.G. on the schedule as Tuberculosis is a real problem here. Most countries don’t.
Secondly, there are sometimes different vaccines for a disease. Rotarix, rotashield and rotatech are different vaccines against Rotavirus. Each is used in different countries. DTaP and TDaP are both triple jabs against Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus.
So in those senses, the vaccine ingredients differ from country to country, but the TDaP you get in the U.S. is the same as the TDaP you would receive in South Africa.

I have a question, does vaccine ingredients change depending the country, im asking this cause Scandinavian countries seem to trust their governments more, Finland reports a 99% vaccination rate in children’s but it doesn’t seem to report higher rates of autism, so I was wondering if they have the same ingredients in their vaccines? I realize this may be a stupid question but I repeat, I do not have a medical background.

I will add to what Julian Frost stated. There are some slightly different ingredients in vaccines depending upon where they were manufactured but not drastically so. The biggest concern would be oversight and regulation but not a problem (for the most part) for vaccines manufactured in EU countries or the U.S. for example. Your example of Finland’s vaccination rates have more to do with their culture; they are very community-oriented. They import all their vaccines but since they are an EU country, those vaccines must be approved by the EMA (like the U.S.’s FDA).

Address the argument, rather than engage in character assassination.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

This sort of ad hominem, genetic fallacy bullshit has infected much of your writing and like writing (such as from PZ Myers) for YEARS now, and it is beneath your intellect and your experience.

And NO, I am not defending this woman. To me, endorsing conspiracy theory is prima facie evidence that you do not know what you are talking about, cause conspiracies are too damned hard to maintain.

So don’t even go there.

” beneath your intellect and your experience”

SRSLY: how could they tell?
Don’t you need intellect and experience to be able to judge who else has it?

What is a “genetic fallacy”? Is this some kind of DNA denialism that I’ve never encountered before?

A genetic fallacy is one where someone’s claims are dismissed or denied because of their source. If the claims are addressed and evidence against them is raised or demonstrated, then it’s not a fallacy. However, it is valid to say someone’s claims are likley (note that “likely”) wrong because they have a history of false, exaggerated or otherwise bad claims. My parents used to say that even known liars can tell the truth, but keep that bag of salt handy.

In other news…

According to Kim Rossi, Mikovits’ book is sold out on Amazon.

Grand old charlatan Null insists that Covid-19 doesn’t really kill: victims average over age 80 with two co-morbid conditions- they were already on the way out . So younger people and healthy oldsters like him shouldn’t worry. He plays Tucker Carson commentary on similar points.

Tell that to parents of babies and pre-teens who have died and families of young and middle-aged medical personnel, other essential workers and POC of all ages.

No wonder he’s banned by Facebook.

Woo-meisters need to insist that healthy living and supplements cure all,
An illness that currently has no treatment or vaccine is not conceivable in their narrow, twisted minds.

It seems to be causing thrombotic disease so I’m starting to wonder if we’re missing cases in MIs/strokes that are not rolling in with classic COVID symptoms or history. In fact, the only reason anyone started talking about this aspect is that they were occurring in odd demographics in conjunction with the disease. What about that over-the-hill, overweight diabetic who goes to an “Open salons or I’ll shoot!” rally, gets a mild case a week or so afterward, but then has an MI and dies out in the sticks? There’s already talk that we may have had one here so I bet it’s the case everywhere…

Too bad you have to couch that interesting theory in a polarizing rant.
There’s something I’ve been thinking about. Putting it out here just because I have no where else to go with it (and putting on my bulletproof vest for the attacks sure to ensue) – has anyone heard / know about the theory that the virus attacks the heme molecule and displaced the iron, which results in 2 things: loss of ability to carry oxygen; and also, a bunch of permanently useless RBC’s. Has this been disproven, is it a ridiculous mode of action? And if it IS possible, 2 other thoughts:
1 – Since the body now responds by making more RBC’s, now we have too many RBC’s floating around, somehow causing the clots?
2 – This is not my own original idea, but then really sick patients might need whole blood to get oxygen- carrying RBC’s.
OK 3 points, – then they also need blood replacement – to get rid of all the excess RBC’s.
I’m now scared but won’t come back on until I can take the assault. I can hear it now – Sheila wants to bring back blood- letting! Haw haw haw haw haw

I’m not sure if that “polarizing rant” nonsense was aimed at me, but I’ll ask this – what can be more polarizing than a bunch of babies who can’t be without McDonald’s and KFC for a couple weeks walking around with loaded military weapons and invading a state capitol? Before you call me a gun-hater, I own and have built far better versions of those that these bozos were brandishing. The difference is I was trained to use them, trained others to use them, in war, and don’t need them to prove my manliness or whatever. If I had walked around on a camp in Iraq carrying a locked and loaded weapon, I would have got my ass chewed. If I was walking around with my hand on the grip and my finger on the trigger guard instead of having it slung over my back like every other normal human being on camp? I probably would have been laughed at, got written up, or worse. That was in a warzone where there were genuine threats running around all the time – there is simply no excuse for these pathetic military cosplayers’ behavior. Get over it.

As for the hematocrit, I haven’t seen it change much in any of our patients. We’ve seen some weird things with their leukocytes, though. One of the path guys was talking about odd things on peripheral smear but nothing like polycythemia. Of course, there is much we don’t yet know about this disease. This looks more like cytokine storm leads to DIC and prothrombic state – something we’ve seen with other diseases…

has anyone heard / know about the theory that the virus attacks the heme molecule and displaced the iron, which results in 2 things: loss of ability to carry oxygen; and also, a bunch of permanently useless RBC’s

There are a lot of hemoglobin molecules tucked into each RBC, each with four heme molecules. The theory does not explain how the virus manages to enter the RBCs, and when you think about how many would have to squeeze into each corpuscle to inactivate enough heme groups and affect oxygenation… no, it’s not viable.

medicalyeti, I know what you mean. I grew up in a gun toting family (my brother was in the rifle club in Ft. Ord, CA while in high school, and as an Army officer he was told he needed to be tested for fire arm proficiency, so he used his handgun shots to make a smiley face). The most important rule is our house was to never aim a weapon at a person unless you are really ready to kill them because hesitation is deadly. Out of the four of us, two of us declined dealing with guns (my stepsister and myself).

My favorite “stance” is seeing some dude who has shoved a handgun in his belt in the “traumatic castration” position . David Neiwert in his book And Hell Followed With Her: Crossing the Dark Side of the American Border described how one militia wanna-be walked around with a gun in a belt aimed toward his family jewels. Once I was waiting for the bus and some guy walked by with the same thing (I had to turn away to hide my snicker). Dudes buy a holster (or make your own like my nephew did… he and his wife were very happy to show off their customized phone covers and handgun holsters).

Oh joy… my dad was from this county: “Yakima County has the highest rate of COVID-19 cases per capita on the West Coast.”: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/in-yakima-county-car-cruisers-and-the-mayor-of-selah-openly-flout-stay-home-orders/

It includes a lovely mix of those dudes protesting in Olympia and farm workers* who live in crowded conditions and work in “literally packed” fruit packing companies. And these not so bright dudes trying to replace our present governor: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/at-a-republican-candidate-forum-for-washington-state-governor-the-coronavirus-barely-exists/

Folks please think about who picks and packs your food. If you are unemployed please consider taking over their jobs. I am sure you will love stooping down to cut asparagus/strawberries/lettuce/etc or standing at a station cutting up poultry, pork or beef. Go for it. Be the Americans who can get the job done! At a lofty $9 per hour… or by piece weight, which is often lower (dear hubby tried blueberry picking in high school, it was brutal and the weight requirement was onerous).

@medicalyeti
Thank you for the response.
Yes it was directed at you, but perhaps I overreacted, for the record I was as horrified as you with gun toters showing up at protests, doesn’t help their cause. And I am also not pleased to see people not social distancing at protests. Not sure what the objection to a car rally is though. There are two sides to this issue but I don’t want to get into it.
So it sounds like from yours and SmutClydes perspectives that other theory of the virus attacking the hb is rubbish. You said you haven’t seen the hematocrit change that much… did it change at all? Just curious.

Here is the paper that I had read an analysis of; I didn’t read it, it’s over my head, but just thought I post it in case you’re interested.

Thanks! It received a bollocking from experts at PubPeer.
https://pubpeer.com/publications/8EA29CA92FB9FD52483F93DBAE3AE5

The authors had argued (by misusing computer simulations) that COVID-19 proteins bond very tightly to the iron in heme groups. The gist of the criticism is that they had no idea what they were doing.

@medicalyeti
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32007143/

This was one of the references in the paper I linked to before. It found low hb,high serum ferritin and high bilirubin. Wondering if that fits your patient profiles also.
Does that, in your opinion, possibly fit in with the pathophysiology theorized by the Liu & Li paper. (I know it was “bollocked”, maybe they did or did not do a good job, but someone must have had an idea and asked them to do it, as they are not virologists). Or could all that be explained by the cytokine storm? I am asking this because I was thinking that the cytokine storm occurs later in the progression of the disease (l can’t seem to find a definitive answer to that), which then would not explain the early loss of smell, that some have attributed to blood clots. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

That’s exactly what Mikovits was going on about, agreeing with the interviewer that you have a much better chance of avoiding serious disease from COVID-19 if you avoid GMOs, eat organic, etc.

Bah. I cook my GMOs with extra gluten. I’ve started doing Caspian littoral paleo – mainly caviar and barley beer, and the occasional roasted ox.

Now we’re seeing cases of what’s being called a COVID-related pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome, which as of this morning was identified as causing five fatalities in New York state, and after the NYSDOH alerted other public health departments, cases are being identified everywhere.
So much for “They’re just old people and sick people who are a burden anyway. Let’s throw them out of the boat so we can all go to Burger King again.” It’s your kids, people.
Meantime I’ll be having my first experience with telemedicine tomorrow in place of a followup visit with my PMD. It’s strange but every time I try to visualize him, I just keep seeing Andrew Cuomo.

I don’t have dog in this fight but just from observation, Ms Mikouits has stirred quite of bit of dust, which does lead me to believe some of what she is saying may be true, if she were just another crack pot this much ink (or electrons) would not be wasted on her or her claims, but “methinks they do protest too much” could be applied to this situation (I mean really who many internet videos are out there on conspiracy theories, which never get response. You know you’re over the target when you start taken flack.
I watched her video and did some checking and did find that Dr. Fauci is in fact earning money from several patents that were applied for during the time Ms. Mikouits is referring to and for the same things, now her complaint may be sour grapes but we are talking 100,000 of dollars and as with anything, you follow the money.
Her claim of have worked for Ruscetti 20 years is true, it is a parsing of words on the collaboration and picking nits.
As to her claim that she was arrested and put in jail is true but doesn’t it seem to be just a little curious that she was never charged with any crime, didn’t that raise any red flags for anyone who was researching the story. And since you brought up her arrest, did you think to search the affidavit for a search warrant and look to see what materials they were looking for and more importantly read the fact sheet on the grounds for the search warrant and who supplied the information and what the sources said/claimed (which were apparently not true since she wasn’t charged with a crime), they are viewable on line.
You also speculated that she was possibly fired from her job because her name disappeared from being a principal investigator, that is just speculation on your part, with just a few phone calls or emails this could have been proven or disproven, where is you research?
You also called her a racist for references to Chinese person and the virus, when in fact that New York infection did indeed come via Europe, (Cuomo called it the “European” virus just the other day).
You also derided her for telling people they shouldn’t wear a face mask, I believe that Dr. Fauci who was being interviewed by 60 minutes said that very same thing, “the general public should not wear face masks either”.
If what this woman says is not true and tinfoil hat stuff, why give her a public forum (New York Time, Washington Post, Retraction Watch, Real Clear Science etc)., the “Streisand effect”, if you are going to refute what she is claiming use actual facts not speculations and Ad Hominem attacks.

I don’t have dog in this fight but just from observation, Ms Mikouits has stirred quite of bit of dust, which does lead me to believe some of what she is saying may be true, if she were just another crack pot this much ink (or electrons) would not be wasted on her or her claims, but “methinks they do protest too much” could be applied to this situation (I mean really who many internet videos are out there on conspiracy theories, which never get response. You know you’re over the target when you start taken flack.

It’s not very intelligent to believe someone just because she kicked up a shitstorm. Andrew Wakefield kicked up a shitstorm, and he was definitely wrong. As for the rest, anyone who knows anything about how NIH grant awards work could easily figure out why she “had her grant taken away.” It’s common knowledge among scientists. Just because you don’t know it is why I tried to educate the public. Have you had an NIH grant? Have you ever applied for one? No? I didn’t think so.

“the general public should not wear face masks either”.

That is because, if people knew they needed masks, there would have been blood in the streets during the initial panic because there were no masks to be had.

Thx, Obama. No, wait.

Their is a 60 minutes extra video on U-Tube with him explaining why people who are not in the medical field should not be wearing mask. It had nothing to do with shortages, but with the people who are not trained in to how to use a mask (ie improper alignment, touching the face, eyes and just the ineffectivness of the mask themselves.

Yes. He sucked it up and played the stupid because, at the time, n-95’s were going for as much as $11,000 for a box of 30 on Amazon. Of course, a 3 minute youtube video from Johns Hopkins explains how to fit a mask.

I recognized the stupid in January/early march and now wear an Oreck vacuum cleaner bag on my face because, at the time, if you showed up at the beer store with an n-95 you’d get beat up because you ‘took one from a doctor’ and were showing disrespect for trump.

And trumptard was telling the states to fend for themselves. It was to prevent the hospital staff from dropping dead in 3 weeks for a lack thereof.

You are correct, the AMA can not revoke licenses, how ever the Governor of Michigan did in fact threaten any doctor or pharmacist who prescribed medicine with revocation of licenses (that was on March 24).

Yes, that makes more sense because the governor can dictate the state’s regulations. But that is not what Mikovits said. You are just moving the goal post by changing the subject.

You are very gullible.

I don’t have dog in this fight but just from observation, Ms Mikouits has stirred quite of bit of dust, which does lead me to believe some of what she is saying may be true, if she were just another crack pot this much ink (or electrons) would not be wasted on her or her claims, but “methinks they do protest too much” could be applied to this situation (I mean really who many internet videos are out there on conspiracy theories, which never get response.

Holy run-on sentence! You have an odd bar for determining truthfulness of claims based solely upon the response they receive. As for the rest of your rant, you certainly do sound as though you have a dog in this fight.

My apologies to my 5ht grade English teacher, but lawyers have a tendency to have run on sentences.
And no I don’t have any dogs in this fight. I am paraphrasing myself but “this person, Ms Mikovits, may be a grade A, wing nut,”. But with every conspiracy there is some truths.
As to what I expressed about the “Streisand effect” is a valid argument. When well respected sources of information denounce things with so many ferocious attacks, I have a the tendency to investigate the object of their hostility. Sometimes, well respected sources are wrong (or have an angle), how many scientific published, peer reviewed, research is proven to be wrong. It is my skeptical nature not to automatically believe authority. The more authority presses itself the more I question it.
This article in “respectful insolence” was not well researched nor well documented nor did it have any citations of merit. It presented half truths and suppositions labeled as truths and it does not lend credence to counter Ms.Mikovits video/argument. It appears to be just a rant by a blogger and nothing more, I expected better from a link from real clear science.

As for the rest of your rant, you certainly do sound as though you have a dog in this fight.

Although he can’t spell its name.

Scott Allen: Did your law school also teach you that there’s some validity to any accusation, however wild-eyed and conspiratorial?

If so, I very much hope you aren’t working as either a prosecutor or a defense attorney.

Chemtrails are’t a thing, and our government is no run by tetrahedral aliens from Zeta Reticuli.

My apologies to my 5ht grade English teacher, but lawyers have a tendency to have run on sentences.

Is it just me, or is this the first time that Scott has mentioned anything of the sort?

Oh, and having worked at SASM&F (IANAL) for several years in the Fix the Gibberish and Citations by Dawn department, I never noticed that outside of the big contracts that would be later be miniaturized and then immortalized in Lucite credenza ornaments.

You also speculated that she was possibly fired from her job because her name disappeared from being a principal investigator, that is just speculation on your part, with just a few phone calls or emails this could have been proven or disproven, where is you research?

It is well known that Mikovits was fired from her position at the WPI after it was shown that the figure in the Science paper had been doctored. It was widely reported in the newspapers.

Rants work much better if you check your claims are correct before launching into them.

Oh and punctuation helps.

It is well known that Mikovits was fired from her position at the WPI after it was shown that the figure in the Science paper had been doctored.

For clarity, I should note that Mikovits was not fired from the WPI because the figure in the Science paper had been doctored. In fact the firing came a day before the figure fraud began to unravel:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/10/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-researcher-fired-amidst-new-controversy

The reason given at the time was that she was fucking with the career of Lombardi, her colleague and co-author on the unfortunate XMRV paper:

Three letters between Whittemore and Mikovits say the firing hinged on Mikovits’s failure to pass on a cell line that was sent to Vincent Lombardi, the first author of the October 2009 Science paper who runs UNEVX (formerly known as VIPDx), a diagnostic laboratory owned by WPI. Until recently, the lab sold a test for XMRV and related viruses.

In a 1 October written response to Whittemore, Mikovits contended that it was “completely appropriate” for her, as research director, not to give Lombardi the cell line. The cell line was not related to studies of the gammaretroviruses, but Lombardi wanted to use it for experiments connected to a grant Mikovits had secured from the U.S. National Institutes of Health to study possible causes of CFS. Mikovits contended that Lombardi “was unwilling to take my direction” and should not be undertaking a new project “while neglecting his other duties.” She also questioned his ability to carry out that experiment.

Annette Whittemore issued a statement to Science in which she strongly defended Lombardi’s performance. “Dr. Lombardi is a valued and important part of our team, and conducts his research work accordingly,” wrote Whittemore. “While personnel matters are generally confidential, the statements made by Judy Mikovits are wrong, without merit and those of a disgruntled former employee.”

It probably didn’t help that Mikovits was trying to pin all the blame on the WPI for marketing the worthless test for XMRV / CFS that she had patented and had heavily promoted.

In an interview with Science, Mikovits contended that her firing was also linked to a longstanding battle about WPI’s decision to sell, through VIPDx/UNEVX, a test for human gammaretroviruses. The lab began offering the tests, which cost around $500, shortly after Lombardi et al. reported a link between XMRV and CFS. Some patients who tested positive went on to take antiretroviral drugs. “I said, ‘No, no, no, no,’ ” says Mikovits of the test. “I’ve asked them for the better part of 2 years to show me that what we got in Lombardi et al. is the same thing they’re selling to patients.”

It’s just common sense that this is a smear site. Dr. Mikovitz was not and is not anti-vaccine. Any idiot can see that she worked for decades developing immunization therapies. “Vaccine extremists” automatically affirm all vaccines are safe and effective in harmony with the party line.

I love the points offered by your post. At least someone is thinking here!!!

“According to Kim Rossi, Mikovits’ book is sold out on Amazon.”

Briefly it was listed as the #1 Amazon bestseller, but now it has dropped to #11, well behind “My First Learn to Write Workbook” and is being closely pressed by “If Animals Kissed Goodnight” and “The Very Hungry Caterpillar”. You have to wonder about how Amazon top-sellers are determined. Maybe there’s a bigger market than I’d figured for hardback conspiracy books going for $35.29 a copy.

It’ll be interesting to see if “Plague of Conspiracies” makes it onto the N.Y. Times bestseller list (I checked hardcover nonfiction but maybe should have been looking the fiction list). If it doesn’t make the Times list we’ll know why, won’t we?

I just received you post, rebuttal. so much for discussion on an intellectual/factual level. No where did I say I believed Ms Mikovits, I was just pointing out that for some reason some of the scientific community has chosen this person as the object of their anger and hostility and has caused more people to view the video (the Streisand effect) and question the prevailing science, every conspiracy theory has some basic truths, but you chose to address the minutia in my post.
Often principals are replaced, in law, lead attorneys are regularly replaced and not for nefarious reason as you suggested she was. In researching the grant,I found she never had her grant taken away and she was on replaced for one year (even Lombardi bio reflects that fact).
Again I don’t really care about the video or her. but if you are going to expose someone, well researched facts not suppositions or beliefs are the scientific, legally and morally the best way.
As to your argument of Wakefield, it took Lancet 12 years to final retract that study by that time the damage had been done. Think how many studies that are used to shape opinion and public policy now will be retracted and disproven in 12 years. How many billions of dollars did governments waste trying to conform to Diederick Sapel “research”.
Your stated idea that “anyone who knows anything about how NIH grants awards could easily figure out why she “had her grant taken away”, is in itself a conspiracy theory.
Again you could have researched all this and proven Mikovits is a fraud but you choose to take the easy way out.

“Often principals are replaced, in law, lead attorneys are regularly replaced and not for nefarious reason as you suggested she was. In researching the grant,I found she never had her grant taken away and she was on replaced for one year (even Lombardi bio reflects that fact).”

and: “Your stated idea that “anyone who knows anything about how NIH grants awards could easily figure out why she “had her grant taken away”, is in itself a conspiracy theory.”

Did you read past this sentence in the above article, or did you read this sentence in the above article: “There’s a tool that those of us who apply for government research grants know about called NIH RePORTER. It’s a searchable database of all NIH grants ever awarded going back around 20 years.”

It is not a conspiracy when there is a searchable database of the timeline.

Mikovits has a history (she tends to make stuff up), and for some reason a following. It is amazing that you do not know this. I recall her being discussed on the This Week in Virology podcast, and the accompanying blog. Apparently her followers are not nice people. Here are couple of Virology blog posts of that era, try reading them:

https://www.virology.ws/2011/09/27/trust-science-not-scientists/

https://www.virology.ws/2011/09/29/admit-when-you-are-wrong

The “reason some of the scientific community has chosen this person as the object of their anger and hostility” is a long-standing history of dubious behaviour and claims, which the uncharitable might call fraudulent, lies, deception and unethical.

If only there was some handy mechanism or set of tools which would have helped you find all of that…If only…

Ms. mikovits made a video and alleged several things, many people do the same thing. She may or may not have a checkered past.
All I am pointing out there seems to be so much more fire/anger/hostility directed at this lady than has be directed at other researchers who produced fraudulent research and had originally been fired from one job or another. I will make a short list for you

Yoshitata Fuji 183 retractions
Joachien Bolt 100 retractions
Yoshihiro Sato 95 retractions
Jun Iwamotot 73 retractions
Diederick Stapel 58 retractions
James Hunton 37 retractions

Yet all of the above retractions were for some type of fraud. In the cases of Stapel and Hunton they just made up data. Their papers caused industries to shift their business habits and governments to address wrong issues causing billions to be wasted in time, effort, money and may have cost people their lives.

These 6 people are still publishing papers and are still employed at universities and research institutions. Their papers are still being cited and used in other research publication. In the case of Stapel he was even given time on Ted Talks after his 58 retractions. One of Hunton co-authors is an editor for one publication that retracted one of his fraudulent papers. Co-authors for all of these 6 people including Stapel and Hunton, who were involved in the fraud have been given awards for outstanding research and publish numerous papers, since the retractions, with no such fallout that Ms.Mikovits has faced.
Why is her case so much different from these other people? There is no secret agenda in the question, it is a simple and straight out question.

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blockquote>In the case of Stapel he was even given time on Ted Talks [sic] after his 58 retractions.

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blockquote>

I was going to say, “That sounds like par for the course,” but (1) it was not a TED Talk, but 17 minutes on a train, when he was “only” at 54 retractions and still had kind of a job, at the Fontys Academy for Creative Industries.

These 6 people are still publishing papers and are still employed at universities and research institutions.

Yah. Do let everyone know where Stapel is employed now and what his most recent academic paper was.

“These 6 people are still publishing papers and are still employed at universities and research institutions.”

A remarkable accomplishement for Sato, who died in 2017.

These 6 people are still publishing papers and are still employed at universities and research institutions.

Yoshitaka_Fujii was sacked in 2012. Tell me more about his current employment and research output.
Jun Iwamoto was sacked in 2017. Tell me more about his current employment and research output.
Joachim Boldt was stripped of his professorial title (for neglecting his teaching obligations. Tell me more about his current employment and research output.

Is there any particular reason why you misspell their names? Are you under some kind of gaes?

Did Dr. Fauci obtain patents based on Dr. Mikovits work.
Was Dr. Mikovits residence search by police.
Was Dr. Mikovits arrested.
Did Dr. Mikovits spend several days in jail.
Was Dr. Mikovits ever charged with a crime.
Was Dr. Mikovits ever tried for a crime.
Did the police ever find evidence of a crime in their two search of Dr. Mikovits residence.
Did the police recover any documents they listed in their search warrant/

That laundry list is a curious response to a request for Scott to provide “some basic truths.”

Just to add on to Smut Clyde’s response, here are all of the patents that include Fauci’s name in any role.

Yes, you’re going to have to engage in the daunting task of copying and pasting the numbers to the USPTO site. Or you could just quit simultaneously embarrassing yourself and annoying the commentariat.

I suspect you are taking the piss. Both recent blog entries contain many of the answers you seek.

She stuck her head up out of the swamp to blather dangerous and incorrect medical advice and conspiracy theories about Covid 19 in the middle of a f#£king pandemic. Thats why she’s a focus of attention. Particularly in the medical field and particularly on this blog with its focus on….wait for it….real science vs anti-vaxxer rhetoric and alternative health claims (plus whatever else catches Orac’s fancy).

here are all of the patents that include Fauci’s name in any role.

Inquiring minds are wondering precisely which of Mikovits’ accomplishments provided the foundation for later patents by Fauci. Her patents on the fraudulent blood test for XMRV (sold through VIPDx to ME/CFS patients) and on treating those non-existent infections with dangerous antiviral drugs? Her patent on a fraudulent TCM treatment for prostate cancer?

Inquiring minds are wondering precisely which of Mikovits’ accomplishments provided the foundation for later patents by Fauci.

I’m very, very confident that I am not going to go through those patents and look for the prior art.

@ Scott Allen,

Thank you for posting here. The ONLY reason Ms Mikovits has been targeted with the amount of vitriol seen here is because she spoke out regarding proof of vaccine injury & vaccine caused deaths.

Every single doctor & scientist who has ever gone on the record stating similar findings, has been & always will be; attacked in a similar fashion. Both here & elsewhere. It is the kiss of death to ones career to discover anything negative about vaccines. This is really not about COVID at all; Mikovits merely “said something about something” so she must be discredited.

Oh & I am not a doctor or a scientist either; I am just the mother of a little girl who died within 24 hours of being vaccinated.

She died only after you said to remove the oxygen. She had several other co-morbid issues like being a premature twin. Mikovits has no credibility.

The ONLY reason Ms Mikovits has been targeted with the amount of vitriol seen here is because she spoke out regarding proof of vaccine injury & vaccine caused deaths.

I really think it was more the Flying Bonobo Squad’s trying very incompetently to start a land war in Asia, Christine.

If only Mikovits hadn’t already tanked her “career” all by herself, years and years before writing her current book…

Oh, please, her claims aren’t even consistent with your own, but you’ll champion anything that’s against vaccines. You even try to blame them for the fact that you don’t know how to care for your son’s hair.

“S. Alexander Haslam, an expert in organizational psychology at the University of Exeter in England, says scientist(s) are engaging in classic black sheep syndrome: members of a group may be annoyed by public criticism from outsiders, but they reserve their greatest anger for insiders who side with outsiders. By treating her as a pariah, Haslam says, scientists are only enhancing her reputation as some kind of renegade who speaks truth to power. Even if she is substantially wrong, it is not in the interests of scientists to treat her as merely an annoyance or a distraction.”

All I am pointing out there seems to be so much more fire/anger/hostility directed at this lady than has be directed at other researchers who produced fraudulent research and had originally been fired from one job or another.

Some whataboutism for the heck of it? Look Scott, this is a blog written by someone with expertise on health conspiracies and anti-vaccine. He is under no obligation to aggregate all scientific fraud; go to Retraction Watch if that’s your bag and quit your whingeing about what this particular author chooses to write about. Play the ball, not the player.

@ScienceMom
My friend said to me she reminded her of her cousin who had some mental disorder or other. Don’t know much about psychological disorders but it could a lot of things.

I’ll tell you something else that’s starting to send red flags up. You probably have already noticed this. All these blue state governors that want to keep their states locked down, it’s purely political. But what are they depending on? They’re depending on the red states — the red states that are opening up! The red states are gonna get the economy kickstarted.

The red states are gonna create capital and money to transfer to pay these people their stupid welfare costs (and whatever else they’re using to bleed this country dry), while their population sits home, doesn’t work, waits for the federal check to show up — and they sit around and they trash the supposedly reckless red states. I cannot tell you how this irritates me.

The red state governors — like Kemp in Georgia and any number of these people — are doing the right thing. They’re trying to get their people back to work, for all the right common-sensical human and humane reasons — to protect lives — to protect livelihoods, the United States economy, the state economy. And then you go to a blue state, and it’s the exact opposite.

They shut down and lock down, and they want to remain locked down until July or August or whatever — and nothing’s gonna open and nothing is gonna happen. And they fully expect the red states to sit there and essentially pay for it. Folks, I’m gonna tell you, these next four months are gonna be a veritable war like we have not seen.

The American left and the Democrat Party is going to do its best to keep this economy shut down, to extend and expand that shutdown — and blow up their own country’s jobs — just to ensure that Trump loses. But here’s the thing about that. Let’s do a little hypothetical. Let’s say this continues as it is, and let’s say that more and more red states open up and the economy in these states starts to return and revive

The blue states stay locked down. These are populous places — New York, Massachusetts, California. So they stay locked down all for the express purpose of canceling out the increase created by the red states. The economic activity that will happen from the red states going back to work, the blue state governors are gonna try to cancel it out by keeping their people at home.

They’re gonna wreck the economy. Their objective is to wreck the economy and get rid of Trump. So let’s say that… Well, hard as it is to imagine, let’s say they succeed. Let’s imagine they do this. They keep the economy in such bad shape that Trump is sent packing. What do they expect when that’s all over? Do they expect us just to forget it?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/05/12/limbaugh_democrats_will_do_their_best_to_keep_economy_shut_down_just_to_ensure_that_trump_loses.html

Remember. Limbaugh was golfing with Bolsonaro and Trump that day; He is sitting on litres of other people’s convelescent plasma. That is why he has zero fucks to give even though he has lung cancer.

A truly bassackwards rant from Rush. My blue state of New York provides more revenue to the federal government than it gets back, and is on a par with the blue states of Connecticut and Illinois at the top. On the whole, blue states pay much more than they get back, while red states are the opposite. The only reason the Trumpettes capped the SALT deduction so low was so red states could suck even harder at the federal teat.

@ Old Rockin’ Dave:

Preach it. Brother!

Why can’t these Righties get it through their heads that Evil Liberals/ Blue States are financing their Freedom by paying their bills?
I think that if Trump somehow remains in office, the West Coast and NE ( maybe also the Great Lake States) should declare their independence by becoming BiCoastia ( Dos Costas?) which will make us richer and even more liberal. We can then afford to fix roads, pay for better health care and education.
I’m only partly joking.

“Why is (Mikovits’) case so much different from these other people? There is no secret agenda in the question, it is a simple and straight out question.”

With an obvious and straightforward answer.

None of the other researchers you’ve cited have had more than a minute fraction of the influence Mikovits has had. None have published books leading the Amazon bestseller list. None have attracted a small army of devoted followers. None of the others have attacked leading research figures in an attempt to destroy public confidence at the time of a dangerous pandemic. None of the others have staged virulent attacks on vaccination in conjunction with other antivax figures. These activities pose a significant threat to the lives and health of millions of people.

Scott Allen’s gripe amounts to nothing more than a tu quoque fallacy.

Diederick Stapel did in fact have a top ten selling book call Ongsporing (Derailed). Stapel’s research was the reason behind much of the BILLIONS of government (not just in the US but all over the world) spending in social sciences/services area. The money was misspent and misdirected because of his “research” and his work actually causes many people to die because of public policy.Stapel still has people who defend his work and follow his lines of research in attempts to prove him correct.
Hunton’s work lead to companies changing the accounting processes and computer inter actions which ultimately lead to millions in losses in income and expenses for companies.
The others in my list were health related researchers whose works were followed and citied with billions in lost research time and money because of their fraud.
The writer of the article used many fallacious arguments in his blog/post. including appeal to authority , appeal to ignorance, circular reasoning and ad hominem. These lines of argument do not work except to like minded people.
I was not pointing out hypocrisy in the article, i just the wished that the writer had actually used science and research to disqualify Ms Mikovits.

I was not pointing out hypocrisy in the article, i just the wished that the writer had actually used science and research to disqualify Ms Mikovits.

As compared with your own wholly slapdash comments?

To all the “new” little brown shirts in the internet world who have closed their minds, criticizing outside the box thinking and defending the status quo of research/publishing world.

Right now 5 companies own over 50% of the research publishing industry. (in some fields like medicine/medical research that number is closer to 70% and have profit margins approaching 40% (that is almost illegal drug dealers margins). These 5 companies control what gets promoted, what gets talked about and basically what you are to think. Anyone remember when the experts in the field of hormone replacement were promoting estrogen replacement and all other points of view were suppressed? Well 20 years later and thousands of women later who developed all kinds of cancers suffered and died. Because of the prevailing research.

I hate to rain on your parade but read this quote.

“Overall, the journal’s use of reviewers exclusively from within the field to review articles created for and by other practitioners in the field greatly reduces its value as a scientific publications.
It is striking, however, that these courts devote little attention to the sufficiency of these journal’s peer review process or to the issues stemming from a review process dominated by financially and professionally interested practitioners”

Now that was from a US District Court ruling this year. Keep in mind that statement was made by a liberal, Obama appoint Judge not some right wing nut job.

The others in my list were health related researchers whose works were followed and citied with billions in lost research time and money because of their fraud.

The highlight in Scott’s list is Yoshihiro Sato who is apparently “still publishing papers” and “still employed at universities and research institutions”, three years after his death. These zombie academics are the reason why there are so few job openings for new researchers.

Sato is still being cited, his “work” continues. How many published, peer reviewed research papers are retracted but people keep citing them?

And yes “the new brown shirt” as you engage in marcusian rhetorical.

Just remember who Hitler took out soon after he “seized” power, the head of the brown shirts Ernst Rhome

Your attempts to give the impression that you have any fucking clue what you are talking about would be more effective if you could overcome your compulsion to misspell names.

Would you care to spell out whom you see as filling the role of Ernst Röhm?

Sato is still being cited, his “work” continues.

Since you evidently follow the literature, could you list some of Sato’s recent citations?

“Scott sounds nice.”

He sounds like a Russian Bot. It is like he did not understand both articles. And apparently does not understand that a state governor has more influence on state medical regulations than the American Medical Association.

We should stop feeding the bot troll.

a US District Court ruling this year

Narad will have stronger opinions on this, but I don’t think that the DC Superior Court is the same thing as a “US District Court”.

He sounds like a Russian Bot. It is like he did not understand both articles.

If that be true, I hope Scott is wearing a mask at work and taking all possible anti-COVID precautions. Working conditions in those troll-farm boiler-rooms can’t possibly be healthy.

Narad will have stronger opinions on this, but I don’t think that the DC Superior Court is the same thing as a “US District Court”.

Maybe it’s like a landlord-tenant thing, and that’s what threw him.

Keep in mind that statement was made by a liberal, Obama appoint Judge not some right wing nut job.

Yah, Matthew Petersen didn’t quite cut the mustard.

Except Orac did, in both of his pieces here and the ones under his real name on SBM, use science and research…

This piece is about Mikovits, NOT another fraudulent scientist; Orac and others have written about other examples of fraud/bad research/incompetence/etc many times. At present Mikovits is in the news because of the “documentary” related to her new book. It is not relevant to write about whoever else in this context.

Diederick Stapel did in fact have a top ten selling book call Ongsporing (Derailed).

When this comes from someone who can’t spell the name of the book, I am unwilling to take on faith the claim that it was a “top ten seller”.

There can be little doubt that Roundup is perfectly safe when used as originally intended. But there is a lack of research proving it safe when used in the middle of the growing season on certain GMO crops, and as a desiccant on many non-GMO crops. [“Limited information is available regarding immunological effects.” Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, “Toxicological Profile for Glyphosate, Draft for Public Comment” U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, April 2019, 2.14 IMMUNOLIGICAL, p. 50.] As more and more Roundup winds up in our food, and in vaccines, it would seem prudent to launch such studies immediately.

Mischa Popoff saw “glyphosate” in the title and jumped to it.

Doing the usual mixing the molecule name of the main active ingredient and the name of one of the most famous formulation brand.

A pet peeves of mine – many Round-up formulations have more than glyphosate in them, and in certain conditions these other ingredients are actually the ones being of serious health/environmental concern.
That being said, being concerned about round-up ending in vaccines… Better be concerned with the levels of arsenic or lead in the water used in the processing plants. Or used by people.

Roundup has surfectants; It can be used to cleanse the lungs and keep the alveoli from sticking together.

@ Tim

surfectants; It can be used to cleanse the lungs

I would check beforehand with my physician and with my chemist if it is the right type of surfactant. And the appropriate dosage.
I have colleagues working on testing these surfactants on a non-vertebrate model and their results so far a kinda scary.
To be fair, they are testing acute toxicity and their dosage is huge, comparatively to the size of the model.

Just ignore Mischa. He has a bee in his bonnet about this. Even though there is no evidence of harm.

I would check beforehand with my physician and with my chemist if it is the right type of surfactant. And the appropriate dosage.

Like many industrial surfactants, it has a level of toxicity. That is why in my job I encourage people not to drink formulated pesticides. It is not even a good way of committing suicide.

In other anti-vax news…

AoA has an article about what happened at the May Day protest in Sacramento:
the Freedom Angels ( women who wore red-white-and-blue dresses holding an upside down flag at various anti-vax protests) show up wearing other dresses, waving other flags, while protesting California’s Covid-29 policies. Anti-vax meets pandemic measure denialism.
They are claiming abuse by the police.

The ”Freedom Angels” Facebook page celebrates people who don’t wear masks in stores, promotes 5G as a cause of the Covid-19 outbreak, and shows a woman protester holding a sign that says ”The Bill Gates Of Hell Will Not Prevail”.

Clever.

Queue their canonization of the idiot who had to be drug out of our lobby this morning by police for refusing to wear a mask in 3…2…

The hashtag at the top of the banner is straight out of the QAnon fantasy world. It stands for “where we go one we go all.”

In other Covid-19 news…..

Bill Gates is the ” self-appointed vaccine czar” .. “a college dropout, a computer nerd, without any notable biological or medical background..”
an expose by Null ( Gary Null Show, today, PRN.fm) in both written and spoken form. Enjoy.

Just who is this profoundly undereducated, arrogant wannabe doctor/ cosplay scientist anyway? Why does he pretend that he understands questions beyond his ken? How does he dare to advise people about health and illness?

Now, on to Gates….

@ Denice

The jokes write themselves.
What’s the difference between Gates and Null?

One is a failure of academic education, a nerd without any notable biological or medical background, mouthing scientific buzzwords without understand them.
The other became a multibillionaire as the manager of a software business, Microsoft.

For sheer entertainment value, let’s not forget the ongoing war between Shiva Ayyadurai and RFK Jr. Latest salvo is a lawsuit against RFKJr from Shiva, alleging that Shiva has been wrongly accused of making vaccines (horrors!). Shiva refers his nemesis as the KennedyKlintonKlan.

My daily commute takes me past Shiva’s campaign bus–When he ran for US senate in MA in 2018, against Elizabeth Warren, the bus featured a large image of Warren in an Indian feathered headdress. He is running again for senate and may well come up against Joe Kennedy (if Markey is beaten in the primary). If that comes to pass, I predict that I will see Joe in a KKK hood on the side of Shiva’s campaign bus.

In case you’re wondering, Shiva got 3.4% of the vote in 2018 as an independent (he failed in the Republican primary) and Warren won with over 60%. I am stockpiling popcorn in preparation for the next election.

Athaic:

Oh, for sure! His latest rant ( PRN.fm, today) is aimed at the amateurs at Wikipedia who have NO education in medicine yet they dare to criticise natural health professionals like him who save lives and cure hiv/aids!!!!
Wikipedia is a danger to readers’ health because it discourages altie woo.

the bus featured a large image of Warren in an Indian feathered headdress.

It’s funny how, under the pretense of mocking a candidate’s claims of being part-blood, her right-wing opponents are actually treating her like she was a full-blooded Native.
“Faucahontas” had the merit of implying a false claim, but when her opponents reverted to “Pocahontas”, the message is now that being a Native is in itself bad.
As extra evidence, I will put forward the jokers on Twitter asking Warren to do a rain dance.
If she had claimed Black blood, would have they put her in blackface? Maybe eating a banana, to boot?

Talented political artists would have found better ways to mock Warren while avoiding the trappings of racist stereotypes.

When he ran for US senate in MA in 2018, against Elizabeth Warren, the bus featured a large image of Warren in an Indian feathered headdress.

Shiva is a real class act.

Shiva got 3.4% of the vote in 2018 as an independent (he failed in the Republican primary)

Was he rejected by the Republican establishment for being too much of a garbage person? Not garbage enough? Or just too South Asian?

It must really rankle with Shiva that talented scammers (and even talentless tag-alongs like Forrest Maready) are doing so well out of antivax grifting, while he’s not seeing any of it.

o.k. So females get the estrogen. And males get the testosterone because it raises the estogen without them having to grow tits.

Off topic, but we are over 140 comments in. I noticed that Mr Adams is complaining that his video channel is hugely successful, but has a cash flow problem. Grifters, they only know one way.

@ Natalie White

Yep, quite interesting. They took a HARMLESS virus and attached the S-spike protein used by Bat coronaviruses to enter cells in order to see if the S-protein would attach to and enter other species. An excellent piece of research. And, moron, you probably didn’t notice but they were Taiwanese researchers, not from Wuhan, not from China.

So, more confirmation that bat coronaviruses can enter many different species cells.

I am a supporter of both Retraction Watch and Elisabeth Bik work, in my opinion, sun light is the best disinfectant, I came to this website via Real Clear Science and I expected a logical, well reason argument against what Mikovits was putting out (boy was I wrong). I understand Orac’s anger at the anti vaccine crowd (I have grand children and they, along with myself are up to date on vaccines), being sued is not fun, having experienced it several times (try being sued by an by an incarcerated person who has a court appointed attorney thus having unlimited budget and resources) and anger is part of the process.
When I expressed my view that, you were nit picking or not being logical in your argument against Mikovits and said that Mikovits may very well be a “grade A, wing nut” and that to pour out so much vitriol to her video was a “Streisand effect” moment, you scorned me (to say the least).
When I said you were being obtuse or using conjecture in her firing, you claimed I was ignorant of the process and mocked me for never having applied for NIH grant money.
When I defended her for her statement that people should not wear face masks and quoted Dr. Fauci you derided my failure to understand what Dr. Fauci was telling people (the video was pretty clear on what his position was on the subject).
When I pointed out that to follow authority figures (and I cited the mistake of hormone replacement, which cost me my mother and my wife) and “consensus” science is not always a good idea and having lived thru the Tonkin Gulf resolution and was on the ground looking for WMD’s, (to which all of the “experts” said were there, both of which were supported by a “consensus” of congress) you remained silent.
When I asked for a logical, well written, factual refutation of her assertions you resorted to my spelling, grammar and punctuation (to which I apologized to Mrs Decker for) as somehow proof of your superiority in your rants, one sentence replies and sarcasm .
When I alluded to other scientist who had more retractions and committed research fraud and who’s work was still being cited and that governments and companies had spent billions of dollars to institute policies these people had promoted (fraudulently) , you choose to bury you heads in the sand and denied the facts that these people were still working or their retracted papers were still being cited or used in policy decisions, even after their death. You claimed that I was somehow making things up.
When I quoted a DC judge who was questioning the very science you want to support, you mocked my mistake of jurisdiction, but failed to address the assault on peer reviewed, published science, this judge was making (and trust me on this, it WILL be used in other cases as the DC courts are the neonatal of “new ideas” for courts)
When I compared your ad hominid responses to what the “brown shirts” did to people who spoke against Hitler in the beer halls, I was told I was a Russian bot.

At the end of this I remembered the Martin Niemoller’a quote.

Scott allen:

Just a couple of points:

You make a huge deal about the “billions wasted” and the
“deaths” resulting from policies based on fraudulent research. Despite a thorough Google search, I was unable to find any reference to these policies based on this research, let alone wasted money and lost lives. Perhaps my Google skills are not up to the task, so a citation or two to support your allegations would be great. Eagerly awaiting them, thanks.

You take offense at having your spelling errors pointed out. However, you imply that you are educated in law and possibly are a lawyer. I would think that someone with such education would know the importance of correct spelling and grammar. I suggest that correct spelling of peoples’ names is especially important in the legal arena. I’m not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, of course.

Oh by the way, that last comment was just pathetic. Thought you should know.

Yeah, idiots still cite Wakefield’s retracted 1998 Lancet paper. So what?

You are very gullible.

Thank you for the reference. I did miss the part about billions of dollars and lives lost.

When I compared your ad hominid responses to what the “brown shirts” did to people who spoke against Hitler in the beer halls

Ad hominid responses are when I compare someone to an Australopithecus.
If you call people “little brown shirts”, you have the choice of being pointed and laughed at, or told to fuck off all the way home to Fuckoffsville and die in a fire. Which do you prefer?

Clyde, Thank you for proving my point.

Pointing and laughing is exactly the same as being beaten to death. Right.

“S. Alexander Haslam, an expert in organizational psychology at the University of Exeter in England, says scientist(s) are engaging in classic black sheep syndrome: members of a group may be annoyed by public criticism from outsiders, but they reserve their greatest anger for insiders who side with outsiders. By treating her as a pariah, Haslam says, scientists are only enhancing her reputation as some kind of renegade who speaks truth to power. Even if she is substantially wrong ”

I tried to explain the “Streisand Effect” you wouldn’t listen to me ………

Scott has some semi-valid points. Ben Goldacre has pointed out that older papers being cited widely have been found to be invalid now that knowledge has advanced. He’s also pointed out times where consensus opinion has been wrong. However, this is usually in situations where there isnt any evidence to show it’s wrong until much later, when more data is available. Weirdly, this is the sort of thing that alt med types love, LOOK, SCIENCE WAS WRONG, yet they are quite happy to recommend the use of untested supplements and treatments in their own field.

Scott, as a member of the legal field. The law has let many people down in the past. Innocent people jailed. Does this mean that there shouldnt be laws? Does it mean that every prisoner who claims innocence is innocent? How do you test these claims?

Science, law, politics etc. are all governed by human beings. Which can be wrong (probably a lot more times then they are correct).
We have a tendency in these times to want quick answers to complex issues, well that is not going to happen. I stipulated that this person might just be a “grade A wing nut”. All I asked this blog to do was take apart her video by using facts and logic and not by using fallacious arguments and name calling, when you argue that way it means you lost any moral authority and lost the argument.
I have seen the really bad side of authority and the cost to people (I pointed out just 3 examples) and the fact that 5 publishers control 50-70 percent of the conventional wisdom in science. Since when would scientist allow such concentrated power to govern research.
I am retired now and do not have someone who will correct my spelling, grammar, punctuation like I did when I was working for which I apologized.
As you correctly pointed out the court system gets it wrong sometimes. If you have a better way to settle the issues, I am willing to listen to you ideas and maybe promote them. I am willing to listen to all sides of an argument, people like Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Castro and other all had some things they did or said that were beneficial (you or I may be hard pressed to find them).
Peter Higgs was mocked and his work was left to rot for 50 years because it didn’t conform with accepted science. 50 years later he was awarded a Nobel for his work.

All I asked this blog to do was take apart her video by using facts and logic

This was done.

and not by using fallacious arguments and name calling, when you argue that way it means you lost any moral authority and lost the argument.

I saw no fallacious arguments and any “name calling” was deserved. As I have said before: “It’s not an insult,it’s a description.”

If you want more take down, try this:
https://respectfulinsolence.com/2020/05/06/judy-mikovits-pandemic/

Scott,

Your example of Peter Higgs as a scientist whose work was “left to rot” is so outstandingly wrong that I laughed aloud. You owe me a new keyboard.
First, he wasn’t alone–his theory was independently proposed by others at the same time. Different theories were proposed and debated. The science wasn’t settled, so testing was necessary to determine the best theory.

A huge multinational consortium got together and to build the Large Hadron Collider to test the theories, which took decades and billions of euros. During that time, Higgs was scooping up numerous scientific and civic awards, not rotting in isolation. Sure–the Nobel committee took fifty years, but that’s because they insist on experimental verification before they reward theoretical work. Higgs is an example where the scientific community came together to test and verify his work, not someone who was left to rot because his idea didn’t conform.

Your example is a version of the “Galileo Gambit”, It is a flawed argument–being ridiculed does not mean that you’re right, and over past history, many who have been ridiculed were in fact, wrong.

5 publishers control 50-70 percent of the conventional wisdom in science

Define “control.” I have a strong sense that you don’t really understand the workings oh the sausage grinnder.

Scott, I don’t think you are understanding. I wasn’t using the legal system as a ‘what aboutism’. I was pointing out that mistakes happen and are hopefully corrected with policies implemented to prevent a reoccurence. The fact that the law gets it wrong occasionally doesn’t mean that all the people are in jail are innocent. The fact that science gets it wrong occasionally doesn’t mean that the people who claim to have the secret of eternal life are correct. Science getting wrong is not a justification for dismissing the science that you happen to disagree with. Mikovits has made wild claims about contaminated vaccines and dangerous claims about Covid 19 and masks. You say that, if there was no basis of truth then why bother paying her any attention? How about someone who stands up in a crowded plane at 30000 feet and shouts “the pilots are dead, we’re all going to die”. Do you think they should be ignored?

using fallacious arguments and name calling, when you argue that way it means you lost any moral authority and lost the argument.

“Brown-shirts”.

I am retired now and do not have someone who will correct my spelling, grammar, punctuation like I did when I was working

“I no longer have minions to cover up my incompetence by cleaning up my blunders in spelling, grammar, punctuation, facts and logic. Please pay attention to my claims.”

under title 1984 of the federal civil rights act they do.

Unfortunately for you, there is no such thing.

When I asked for a logical, well written, factual refutation of her assertions…

Read the blog post Scott and quit whingeing; you aren’t the righteous victim you’re claiming to be.

“My friend said to me she reminded her of her cousin who had some mental disorder or other. Don’t know much about psychological disorders but it could a lot of things.”

Let me think back in time, I had a friend, who had a third cousin who did something and got in trouble so I am going to make a comment about the cops mental health

Oh and if I am Clyde I will point out to you that you are an idiot because you can’t spell and the fact that you left out works or ideas and dismiss your post, by calling you names, and I quote .“fuck off back to Fuckoffsville and die in a fire”…….. see how that works. Don’t ever miss a therapy session with these people, ’cause guess who they will talk about when you aren’t in attendance.

I never claimed to be a victim, I simply tried to empathize with Orac and his history of law suits and could understand his anger at the anti vaccine people.

Let me think back in time, I had a friend, who had a third cousin who did something and got in trouble so I am going to make a comment about the cops mental health

What does that comment have to do with the blog post you are complaining about? Orac didn’t even say the quote you are responding to.

When I quoted a DC judge who was questioning the very science you want to support

A DC judge pointed out that junk science was published in a junk-science journal.

Overall, the AFTE Journal’s use of reviewers exclusively from within the field to review articles created for and by other practitioners in the field greatly reduces its value as a scientific publication, especially when considered in conjunction with the general lack of access to the journal for the broader academic and scientific community as well as its use of an open review process. …

Not satisfied with calling people Nazis when they point and laugh at you, you’re accusing them of “wanting to support” junk science. Here is the “fuck off back to Fuckoffsville and die in a fire” response that you tried so hard to earn.

I figured as much. Being the publisher is not the same as “controlling” a journal, Scott, particularly if you don’t own the title and select its editorial board.

The Guardian writer includes how anti-vaxxers and anti-lockdown advocates have teamed up to promote disease

Television news illustrated the cavalier attitudes these groups have concerning Covid-19: I watched a video of bar openings In Wisconsin and was shocked to witness NO social distancing, NO masks and seemingly, NO worries.
Orac’s state has had a series of protests- some armed- because their governor ( hanged in miniature effigy) continues a sane policy. Other events occurred in predominantly red leaning states or locales. ( Texas, Orange County, CA)
It’s interesting how much political leanings determine outlook on the pandemic. Maybe they look to Trump to ‘splain the disease.

More on the promotion of Plandemics:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/k7qqyn/an-ex-google-employee-turned-whistleblower-and-qanon-fan-made-plandemic-go-viral

An antivaxer/Q-anon guy, liked Plandemics so much he went out of his way to promote it on social medias.
He is giving off some scents of the incel crowd as well. Because of course.

I know one shouldn’t judge people by the company they keep, but here it’s about the supporters they attract.

(credits: learned of it via Pharyngula)

Off topic but:
Anna Merlan is a jewel among writers taking down anti-vaxxers. Her work at Vice is excellent. It’s also worth checking out her older posts at Jezebel. She’s been on top of this for years.

Like TBruce, I’m still waiting for “the facts” about Scott’s retraction-happy scientists having contributed to policies resulting in or threatening large numbers of deaths (which Mikovits’ rantings have the potential to cause).

I wouldn’t dream of picking on Scott’s spelling or grammar, but on the other hand this:

“…“consensus” science is not always a good idea and having lived thru the Tonkin Gulf resolution”

…wins the R.I. non-sequitur award of the year.*

*unless I missed something and Dr. Fauci’s team supplied the research behind the Tonkin Gulf resolution.

@ Scott allen

I suggest you read ALL of Orac’s articles on Mikovits. If you do, you will find out he has hyperlinked to umpteen documents that corroborate just how unscientific she is and untrustworthy. As you claim to be in law, you should understand that one needs to look at ALL the evidence. While Orac does, on occasion, use descriptive terms that aren’t unscientific, he builds a strong case why they do describe the person in question.

And Ben Goldacre makes quite clear in his book “Bad Science” that, yes, articles are retracted, yes, sometimes fraud is uncovered; but the solution is more and better science. Mikovits doesn’t even come close.

“S. Alexander Haslam, an expert in organizational psychology at the University of Exeter in England, says scientist(s) are engaging in classic black sheep syndrome: members of a group may be annoyed by public criticism from outsiders, but they reserve their greatest anger for insiders who side with outsiders. By treating her as a pariah, Haslam says, scientists are only enhancing her reputation as some kind of renegade who speaks truth to power. Even if she is substantially wrong ”

By treating her as a pariah, Haslam says, scientists are only enhancing her reputation as some kind of renegade who speaks truth to power. Even if she is substantially wrong

Just in case anyone was under the impression that scott had anything relevant to contribute, and because he is less than forthcoming about the sources of material he presents as germane, I should point out that Haslam was not talking about Mikovits, but about the case of Judith Curry and her conversion to climate-change denial, 10 years ago. Now Dr Curry is
(a) actually respected
(b) not a conspiracist
(c) not fired
(d) not a grifting fraudster
… but otherwise, sure, a totally equivalent comparison.

At last a reasoned response as opposed to these.
“I really think it was more the Flying Bonobo Squad’s trying very incompetently to start a land war in Asia, Christine.”
“you have the choice of being pointed and laughed at, or told to fuck off all the way home to Fuckoffsville and die in a fire.”
“Just how STUPID are you?”
and those are just a few of the responses. These posters want to be taken seriously, I would bet that right now some lawyers or groups are archiving these responses (even if the poster think their nom de plumes are a secret), trust me they are not and will use them at a future date to a jury or a judge.
I realize the level of interactions on websites, leaves a lot to be desired……
As I posted, I came to this site via Real Clear Science, expecting a rational discussion of the issue and a break down (refutation) of Mikovits video, but was I was met with a whole new animal and a level of vitriol from a scientific prospective. I try to keep an open mind about people and events and understand the history of people and how they came to be what they are (Orac’s history with the anti vaxers), my experiences in history has not been kind to the “appeal to authority” argument, which I am sadden to say is used on this site. I attempted to related that when i mentioned the “Tonkin Gulf resolution” or “WMD”.
I will take your advise and read other post(s) by “Orac”.
Thank you again

I would bet that right now some lawyers or groups are archiving these responses (even if the poster think their nom de plumes are a secret), trust me they are not and will use them at a future date to a jury or a judge.

Found the NSA.

And is storing every byte, nibble, and bit of a person’s past in perpetuity to be used against them in the future something you have become enured to, Scott?

Of course it it is, you snivelling little rat-faced git.

I would bet that right now some lawyers or groups are archiving these responses

Why’s that, Scott? Who’s the cavalry? Could you get them to take over for you? Please?

We have gone from “people who disrespect my opinions are Hitler’s murderous street thugs” to “people who disrespect my opinions will come to regret their impudence when the vindictive wrath of lawyers rains down upon their heads”.
Not sure if this is an improvement.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the flagship agency for the nation’s public health, has seen its role minimised and become an ineffective and nominal adviser in the response to contain the spread of the virus. The strained relationship between the CDC and the federal government was further laid bare when, according to The Washington Post, Deborah Birx, the head of the US COVID-19 Task Force and a former director of the CDC’s Global HIV/AIDS Division, cast doubt on the CDC’s COVID-19 mortality and case data by reportedly saying: “There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust”. This is an unhelpful statement, but also a shocking indictment of an agency that was once regarded as the gold standard for global disease detection and control.

…CDC for a long time has been subject to conservative politics that have increasingly eroded the agency’s ability to mount effective, evidence-based public health responses. In the 1980s, the Reagan administration resisted providing the sufficient budget that the CDC needed to fight the HIV/AIDS crisis. The George W Bush administration put restrictions on global and domestic HIV prevention and reproductive health programming.
The Trump administration further chipped away at the CDC’s capacity to combat infectious diseases. CDC staff in China were cut back with the last remaining CDC officer recalled home from the China CDC in July, 2019, leaving an intelligence vacuum when COVID-19 began to emerge. In a press conference on Feb 25, Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, warned US citizens to prepare for major disruptions to movement and everyday life. Messonnier subsequently no longer appeared at White House briefings on COVID-19. More recently, the Trump administration has questioned guidelines that the CDC has provided. These actions have undermined the CDC’s leadership and its work during the COVID-19 pandemic.

…There is no doubt that the CDC has made mistakes, especially on testing in the early stages of the pandemic. The agency was so convinced that it had contained the virus that it retained control of all diagnostic testing for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, but this was followed by the admission on Feb 12 that the CDC had developed faulty test kits.

…There is no doubt that the CDC has made mistakes, especially on testing in the early stages of the pandemic. The agency was so convinced that it had contained the virus that it retained control of all diagnostic testing for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, but this was followed by the admission on Feb 12 that the CDC had developed faulty test kits… The CDC needs a director who can provide leadership without the threat of being silenced and who has the technical capacity to lead today’s complicated effort.

The Trump administration’s further erosion of the CDC will harm global cooperation in science and public health, as it is trying to do by defunding WHO. A strong CDC is needed to respond to public health threats, both domestic and international, and to help prevent the next inevitable pandemic. Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2820%2931140-5/fulltext

As for the plan to reopen America, it is the devolving horse drawing meme:

CDC 68 page highly granular plan | coronavirus task force edits | Greg Abbott

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdGq_1JXkAEsAc1.jpg

@ Natalie White

Just how STUPID are you? It was the S-spike protein from a bat coronavirus that they used with a HARMLESS virus. So, what they found is that the bat S-spike protein does attach and enter cells of many different species. Do you understand? They showed that the Bat coronavirus is quite capable of entering cells from other species. The only thing they did in the lab was to attach the S-spike to a HARMLESS virus. You really are a friggin MORON! !

I’ve suggested to you and others umpteen times to learn a little immunology, start with Lauren Sompayrac’s (2019). “How the Immune System Works, 6th edition”. Available at Amazon.com

You might actually learn something; but I doubt it.

But go ahead, link to a newspaper article, rather than demonstrating you even understand an actual journal article. And, the newspaper article refers to possible problems in the Wuhan Lab; but as I already commented on, several well-done studies found that 3% of population had antibodies to bat coronaviruses, which means that it was highly likely that a virulent serotype entered the human population. I also pointed out that several well-done genome sequencing of the SARS-COV-2 found its genome close to two bat coronavirus genomes. And MORON, you link to a study that found that the bat coronavirus S-spike protein, the protein that attaches to cells, does so with several species. Something you obviously didn’t and don’t understand.

So, whether the State Department found problems or not, given similar problems have been found in American labs, the evidence says it did NOT escape from the lab, especially given above. I would hate to have you on a jury. You would make up your mind if defendant was guilty or innocent and only hear evidence that confirmed your belief. You are DESPICABLE!

If you mean by the “Big Picture” blaming the Chinese, not, I look at the evidence. Again, you are DESPICABLE!

ADDENDUM

And one can question State Department’s motives, based on pure science or did they have some political agenda. In any case, as pointed out above, irrelevant.

@ DB:

We can venture that Gold et al will be labelled as pharma shills or Gates’ thralls by anti-vaxxers because everyone knows that the Samoans avoided Covid infection because they spend so much time in the tropical sun eating fruit! Vitamins C, D and clean air
The South Pacific is natural living itself!

The quote in Scott Allen’s post about “black sheep syndrome” (no attribution or link provided – [i]bad[/i] Scottie!) refers to Judith Curry, a Brave Maverick climatologist who has become beloved of climate change deniers. She is retired and a Professor Emeritus (that ol’ Emeritus Syndrome* again) who supposedly quit because of “politics”. From her Wikipedia profile:

“Climatologists who have commented on Curry’s complaints have generally disagreed with her critiques; Stephen Schneider, who had persuaded the (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) to systematize discussion of uncertainty, said Curry had lately proposed “a lot of strawmen” and “It is frankly shocking to see such a good scientist take that kind of a turn to sloppy thinking. I have no explanation for it.”…
Curry began her own blog open to outsider participation. It was described as part of the climate change denial blogosphere in the 2015 Oxford University Press book Climate Change and Society: Sociological Perspectives.”

“Curry’s position on climate change was much criticized by climate scientists, and she became known as a contrarian scientist. A 2013 Media Matters for America study found that Curry, as a contrarian, was among the “climate doubters” most frequently quoted by the press as spreading public doubts about climate science. Going against the vast majority view of climate scientists, she had suggested to newspapers that most of the recent global warming was not human-caused, and had hinted that IPCC scientists are motivated by “funding” even though they are not paid for their contributions. She consistently presents her view that climate science has much larger uncertainties than those shown by mainstream studies, though she has not shown any previously unconsidered cause for such uncertainty.”

“Curry has repeatedly been invited as a witness to United States Congressional hearings, as one of the few scientists advancing doubts about the significance of human contributions to climate change, and some political figures have used Curry’s statements and writings in their arguments. For instance, when Christopher Shank, a politician and President Trump’s first appointment to the NASA transition team, questioned the role of humans in climate change, Shank referred to Curry’s work and her site’s URL repeatedly in his testimony.”

“Between 2014 and February 2019, Curry testified before at least six Republican-led House committees, expressing the idea that the dangers of global warming are overstated and difficult to predict…
In February 2019, Curry was among those listed by the Trump administration for possible inclusion on a “Presidential Committee on Climate Security” intended to carry out “adversarial scientific peer review” of climate science. A 2019 article in Human Ecology Review described her position as a form of climate denialism, criticizing her downplaying of potential future climate change effects and emphasis on the costs of addressing climate change.”

Curry comes off as a once-respected scientist who shifted later in her career to a controversial position with scant scientific backing, couldn’t handle the resulting criticism, and happily pivoted to accepting praise from the sort of cranks she earlier disregarded.

Sounds a lot like certain “stars” of the antivax movement.

*see also Boyd Haley.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Every response is one sided from people on the internet with no science credentials trying to protect their own cognitive dissonance. Fauci has been doing his schemes since the Aids epidemic. I bet you could make a case he leaked it too. They said it came from Mokeys? Judy clearly says Viruses dont jump from animal to human without injection. Like Roses get viruses, they are injected by mites. You dont want to hear all this tho, because it would fuck your entire world up. You wonder why all of you are broke or living check to check, and you wonder why life is so hard. Hmm I wonder why Magic Johnson stayed alive while all this was going down. Oh because HIV doesnt cause aids, it was some other shit. Blood banks are contaminated. SMH. And climate change is a hoax. It’s a globalist agenda to ultimately make you PAY to exist (cuz you know money makes the climate get better) Covid – Certificate of Vaccination ID – 2019 was already in the plans for a long time. Let me guess you guys think Rockerfeller and Rothchilds are great people. Let me guess you guys think Bill gates should be running vaccine programs even though he paralyzed 500k indians with his polio vaccine.

Let me guess you think Spanish flu was caused by people, and not by a mass vaccination program.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/did-military-experimental-vaccine-in-1918-kill-50-100-million-people-blamed-as-spanish-flu/

Let me guess, you think MAN can make a SUBSTANCE with mercury and othet toxic marterials to inject into you to work better than GODs given immune system.

You fucks are syco, and youre so stuck on a twisted normality which you protect with every ounce of your life because you have no meaning or purpose and youve given your life to a lie. Cool bro.

TAKE THE VACCINE. This time it has 3 needles, because its not for “covid” the virus (which mind you we have 380 TRILLION VIRUSES IN US RIGHT NOW) that has a 99.9% survival rate, it’s a gene modifying therapy to make you sterile and to decrease your life.

https://thevaccinereaction.org/2020/04/inovio-covid-19-vaccine-uses-electricity-to-drive-dna-into-body-cells/

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/vaccines/ino-4800-dna-coronavirus-vaccine

You guys really fucking suck. It’s ok, this is america, and you come knocking with those needles theres gonna be a lot of people getting shot. Rememner that. We dont care about your cognitive dissoance. Life is this complicated, it’s being made complicated with maximized lies happening from the media. You guys are over there, were on this side.

TAKE THE VACCINE, DONT HAVE KIDS, AND DIE. Please, die out. You guys are too pussy to take a stand to anything. Got nerve to post comments on an accomplished doctor and override her statement. Saying shes looking for money? STFU, these “people” shes exposing have made BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS in the past 40 years doing this shit, wth is that compared with her making ANY type of money. WAKE UP.

Leave the rest of us the fuck alone

This article will not age well, Ive taken a copy of it to show the kids in the future how IT was done.

I’m an inventor that has developed Long Range Wireless Energy Systems and Free Energy Systems ! (Yes it really is possible)

My videos have all been deleted and censored and my digital communications too ! (SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE NEWS ARE FAKE)

I also now have a collection of HUNDREDS of videos from professional Doctors and Nurses explaining how the hospitals are empty and there is NO PANDEMIC !

1.5 billion extracted from UK tax payers to build temporary Nightingale hospitals that treated only 50 PEOPLE ! and then shut down LOL

All the excess deaths are from people dying at home from existing conditions because they are being denied elective surgery and healthcare. Evidence is also now surfacing of incorrect deaths certificates. Because of the actions taken many more will also die and economies will be trashed all part of the GREAT RESET PLAN !

WAKE UP WORLD, they intend to bring in a cashless technocratic society with health passports and the like !

THE ROCKEFELLERS AND GATES WILL NO DOUBT RELEASE THE REAL KILLER VIRUS IF THE LOCKSTEP PLAN FAILS, AT THAT POINT BODIES REALLY WILL PILE UP IN THE STREETS (THEY ARE BIO WEAPON EXPERTS AND HOLD MANY KILLER STRAINS)

ALSO STOP WEARING MASKS ALL THEY DO IS REDUCE OXYGEN CONTENT AND INCREASE CO2 TO DANGEROUS LEVELS, THEY ALSO CAUSE FACE RASHES AS THEY ACTUALLY CREATE CONDITIONS FOR BACTERIAL INFECTIONS.

I GUESS THIS COMMENT WILL BE CENSORED TOO !

Other researchers linked the first CFS outbreak to a polio vaccine given to doctors and nurses that resulted in the “1934 Los Angeles County Hospital Epidemic.” That vaccine was cultivated on pulverized mouse brains. Retroviruses from dead animals can survive in cell lines and permanently contaminate vaccines.

Am I the only person who noticed this? She’s apparently talking about a polio vaccine in 1934. Now ISTR that the first polio vaccine (Salk’s) became available in the 1950’s, and when I looked it up, I found that it was licensed in 1955. I somehow doubt that it was undergoing preliminary testing in 1934. That doesn’t say much for her credibility.

Oh, and if those are her links in the original text, well, I followed them and they don’t say what she seems to want us to think they say. Neither of them says a thing about a polio vaccine. The first one claims that the condition now known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was originally thought to be a variant etiology of polio while the second leads to an abstract of a paper about trying to give polio to mice. That could have been done with the intention of using mice to develop a polio vaccine, but if so, there’s no mention of it in the abstract.

I’m also rather put off by Mikovits talking about cell lines as if they’re exactly the same as the animal they’re derived from. Leaving aside the fact that actual animals have complex interacting systems that cell cultures lack, I would expect it to be much easier for a competent researcher to keep unwanted pathogens (and other microbes) out of a cell culture than a live animal, although maybe the bit about retroviruses surviving to contaminate cell lines is some kind of backwards admission about her screw-up with the XMRV.

Yeah, this person isn’t exactly filling me with confidence here.

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