One of the things about the COVID-19 pandemic that’s really distressed me is just how many of my fellow physicians are willing to spread misinformation and disinformation about SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and the disease itself. Obviously, antivaccine physicians have always embarrassed the hell out of me, and, indeed, I’ve said on multiple occasions that they should lose their licenses to practice medicine. When it comes to COVID-19, we’ve seen Dr. Mehmet Oz promote misinformation. We’ve seen grifting doctors like Dr. Stephen Smith and Vladimir Zelenko promote an unproven drug like hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 cure. We’ve seen a French “brave maverick doctor” promote the unproven combination treatment of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a COVID-19 cure and use his fame and prominence to bully those who question him. Now, I’ve learned of another doctor, Dr. Kelly Victory, who’s been promoting misinformation and disinformation about COVID-19. A couple of weeks ago, she posted a video on YouTube that’s since been taken down. Unsurprisingly, her fans view it as having been “censored by leftists”:
Unfortunately, the video is very much available elsewhere. For example, here’s a copy of the 17 minutes of pure disinformation:
And here’s another copy:
YouTube really needs to up its game in fighting COVID-19 misinformation.
Dr. Victory—was she really born with that name?—starts out by touting her credentials as a trauma surgeon and an expert in disaster preparedness and response and the management of mass casualties. She also brags about how she’s spent two decades in public health advising Fortune 500 companies, hospitals, schools, and municipalities to “respond effectively to the worst-ever cases.” She also does what a lot of doctors all too obviously do: She appears wearing a lab coat in order to emphasize her status as a doctor and therefore, presumably, an expert. Of course, as we’ve learned, not all doctors are experts, and, just because Dr. Victory is an ER doc (although she calls herself a “trauma and emergency physician”) does not make her an expert on infectious diseases or pandemics. We’ve seen her ilk before, namely Drs. Dan Erikson and Artin Massihi, two grifting owners of a chain of urgent care centers in Bakersfield who made some rather basic mistakes in epidemiology to sell their belief that COVID-19 is not as deadly as those pointy-headed infectious disease experts were estimating at the time.
I debated about whether to take on this video, given that YouTube has already taken it down, but it’s still available on other YouTube accounts and easily accessible. It’s also being spread around Facebook and other social media. So it’s worth looking at. You can get an idea of where Dr. Victory is going from how she starts out after touting her supposed bona fides to pontificate about the pandemic:
While we clearly mourn the lives of all who became severely ill or died from COVID-19, the vast, vast majority haven’t been victims of the actual virus, but of our response and our reaction to the outbreak. Millions of Americans have lost jobs, delayed necessary medical care, have been isolated from family, missed months of school, and been prohibited from worshiping. Now, we find ourselves months into the event, and communities across the country have suffered needlessly and are struggling to find a way out of this mess.
This is one of those propaganda lines that sound convincing because there’s a grain of truth in it. We are months into the pandemic, and communities across the country are suffering needlessly. However, the reason they’re suffering is not because of the “overblown” response, but rather because our political leadership has been utterly bankrupt at the national level (and in all too many states). There is no national strategy (and hasn’t been). President Trump spent months denying the severity of the pandemic, claiming that the coronavirus would just go away when summer came and the weather got warm, and touting his administration’s risibly incompetent response as the best ever, all as over 130,000 Americans are dead from the disease and there have been over 3 million infected. The number of new cases per day is skyrocketing in several states, and, because deaths lag cases, only now are the number of deaths starting to rise.
Dr. Victory emphasizes that COVID-19 is a “mild disease in the vast majority of people,” claiming that 85% of people who contract the disease have few if any symptoms. Again, that’s a bit deceptive. It is true that probably roughly around one third of cases of COVID-19 are asymptomatic ) or so mildly symptomatic that the person with the virus doesn’t think much of it (or maybe as high as 40%). That does not mean that 85% have “few, if any, symptoms.” None of this stops Dr. Victory from playing Pangloss:
But only a very small actually require hospitalization, and, although any deaths are tragic, only a tiny fraction have died of this infection.
As I like to emphasize, the law of large numbers tells us that, even if the disease kills “only” 1%, if it infects millions, that 1% will be a huge number. The same is true if the disease “only” kills 0.1%. As Dr. Victory notes, SARS-CoV-2 is a novel coronavirus. That means that there isn’t any immunity to it, and, even several months into the pandemic, we don’t know if infection results in immunity or, if it does, how long that immunity lasts. This is contrary to what Dr. Victory claims, which is that just because COVID-19 is novel doesn’t mean that our bodies don’t know how to respond to it. Dr. Victory claims that, because our immune systems have seen “many viruses like” SARS-CoV-2 before and is “remarkably capable of adapting,” COVID-19 is no big deal for most people (except for those for whom it is a very, very big deal indeed).
Check out her brain-dead analogy:
An analogy I might make is: Although I’ve never met you, if I ran into you on the street I would have a good idea how to interact. I’d know that you’re a person, not a tree, a man or a woman, tall or short, and I would have a good idea of how to begin interacting with you, even though I’d never met you before.
This sort of analogy deserves the Godzilla facepalm:
Seriously, WTF? Viruses are not human beings, and human social interactions are not a analogy for how the immune system deals with new viruses. Dr. Victory’s analogy might sound reasonable to the lay person, but to anyone with any knowledge of how the immune system actually works it is one of the silliest analogies ever.
She then launches into a number of claims that range from unproven to pseudoscientific to having a grain of truth vastly oversold.
For example, Dr. Victory notes that “most mutations” in viruses end up making the virus weaker or less lethal. While this can be true for viruses that are highly lethal, given that killing too many of one’s hosts could interfere with optimal replication and spreading, in the case of COVID-19 it’s hard to see how there is much selective pressure for less lethality. After all, 30-40% of cases are asymptomatic, and the infection fatality rate (IFR) is very likely under 1%. When over one-third of infections are asymptomatic (and asymptomatic infected people can spread the disease) and less than 1% of those infected die, it’s hard to see much evolutionary selection pressure on the virus for less lethality. Indeed, the evidence currently existing is that the lethality of coronavirus has probably not changed significantly since the pandemic began. It might be that doctors are becoming more adept at treating severe COVID-19, but it’s still potentially deadly.
Dr. Victory also claims that the virus can’t survive outside the body for more than a few minutes if the temperature is more than 70° F and “certainly not when the temperatures are in the mid-80s or higher.” Clearly, the unbridled spread of coronavirus in Florida, Texas, and Arizona in—checks calendar—July would beg to differ with this assertion.
Unsurprisingly, Dr. Victory next goes on to emphasize that it’s mainly people who are older and have preexisting diseases or other medical conditions who are most at risk for severe disease from the virus. Yes, we know this. Scientists have known this since very early in the course of the pandemic. It’s a frequent trope trotted out by COVID-19 deniers that it’s only old people and those with “preexisting conditions” who are most at risk of dying from COVID-19. We get it. You don’t care if old people or “useless eaters” die from the disease. I also note that a fair number of younger adults have been hospitalized with severe COVID-19
In fact, though, Dr. Victory goes beyond this, claiming that very few children suffer severe consequences from COVID-19 or die from it and that “all of them” had severe underlying health issues. This is one of those tropes that is partially true but incomplete. Yes, it is true that children are much less likely to suffer severe health effects from COVID-19:
Researchers analyzed data on 4,226 COVID-19 cases reported to the CDC from Feb. 12 to March 16 by 49 states, three U.S. territories and Washington, D.C. The CDC had complete age data for 2,449 of these patients.
The CDC found 31 percent of all cases involved individuals age 65 or older. This age group also accounted for 45 percent of hospitalizations, 53 percent of intensive care unit admissions and 80 percent of deaths.
However, the report also shows that millennials “are not invincible,” STAT wrote in an article about the CDC analysis. Of the 508 cases known to involve hospitalizations, 20 percent involved patients ages 20 to 44, and of the 705 cases in that age range, between 14.3 percent and 20.8 percent were hospitalized. About 2 percent to 4 percent of patients in this age range required treatment in an ICU.
That’s a lot of Millennials.
Particularly despicable is how Dr. Victory dismisses the virus as primarily a problem in nursing homes. She argues that, outside of New York City, the virus has primarily been a problem of nursing homes. While it is true that nursing homes have been hard hit by the coronavirus, to dimiss it as primarily a problem of nursing homes (at least as far as deaths are concerned) is incredibly irresponsible and not accurate.
Dr. Victory, as many COVID-19 deniers do, portrays the public health response to COVID-19 as overblown. For instance, she claims that “social distancing” is not even “an established health care concept.” This is BS, pure and simple, as a search of PubMed led me quickly to conclude. I easily found references to “social distancing” dating back to 2006 and before in the context of pandemics. Before that, I could find references dating back to the 1990s. To claim that “social distancing” is not an established medical concept is, quite simply, either ignorance or a lie, as is her claim that social distancing was never scientifically based or never tested as a concept for responding to a pandemic. That is nonsense. We know that social distancing of 3-6 feet is effective in slowing the spread of COVID-19.
Hilariously, Dr. Victory then goes on to argue that quarantine is the way to go, while simultaneously arguing that keeping “healthy people” separated from each other through social distancing is ineffective. But wait! Wait a minute. Didn’t she just say that the vast majority of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic or only weakly symptomatic? How, then, would you distinguish “healthy people” from those with the virus who are asymptomatic? If asymptomatic people can spread the virus, then simply quarantining people with symptoms would be ineffective. The inconsistency boggles the mind.
Particularly idiotic is Dr. Victory’s claim that the WHO, CDC, and NEJM have “acknowledged” that there is no justification for the wearing of masks and that there is no reason for “normal healthy people” to be wearing masks. While it is true that early on in the pandemic the messaging on masks sucked, increasingly the evidence is trending strongly in the direction of concluding that masks are effective in slowing the spread of COVID-19. In particular, her claim that mask wearing increases the risk of disease to the wearer. There is no evidence that this is true, nor is there evidence that the mask traps viral particles and that “rebreathing” makes it more likely that a mask wearer will become ill. I’m also totally embarrassed that a physician actually buys into the idea that masks can impair gas exchange or increase carbon dioxide levels. This is a fundamental ignorance of science that is worse than that shown by creationist physicians because we physicians are taught pulmonary physiology in great detail in medical school.
Even more ignorant is Dr. Victory’s claim that masks somehow harm our immunity because they decrease our contact with viruses and bacteria. No, seriously. I’m going to quote her here:
Furthermore, and very importantly, habitual wearing of masks decreases the body’s natural immune response. We’re supposed to come into contact with foreign things—bacteria, viruses, all kinds of things—and that’s what keeps our immune systems on alert at full capacity. If you limit your exposure to everything by constantly wearing masks or the overuse of hand sanitizers and disinfectants, your immune system, in effect, says, “Apparently I’m not needed. I’ll go on vacation, take a nap.” And it won’t be prepped and ready when you need it to mount the appropriate immune response.
The stupid, it burns. I used to joke about wearing a paper bag over my head (or even a Doctor Doom mask) in embarrassment when physicians spout gleefully ignorant pseudoscience. I’m seriously tempted to do that now in response to Dr. Kelly’s proudly ignorant blather. Particularly embarrassing (to me, at least) is her blather about immunity, particularly herd immunity. She claims that herd immunity to COVID-19 is “the best approach.” This leads her to say, :”Let people be exposed to this disease, knowing that they won’t likely become ill.” She goes on to argue that letting children get the virus is one of the best ways to promote herd immunity. No, we don’t know that. Not at all. Unsurprisingly, Dr. Victory is also very much into unproven drugs for treating COVID-19, such as hydroxychloroquine, even though the evidence is very much trending in the direction of concluding that antimalarial drugs like this do not work against COVID-19.
Dr. Victory concludes with a bit on how we should “trust our immune system.” I laughed out loud at her introduction, given that her “trust your immune system” was a blatant appeal to nature. (Remember, nature is not infrequently trying to kill us.) Yes, adequate sleep and a good diet are good for us. There’s no doubt about it. The problem is that there’s no evidence that, in the short term at least, improving diet, exercising more, and getting more sleep will prevent severe disease due to coronavirus. Basically, Dr. Victory thinks that we should all “get back to our lives.” That would be nice if we could do it, but, unfortunately, the coronavirus doesn’t care what we would like.
What’s more depressing is that Dr. Victory is apparently actually viewed as real expert. San Diego’s KUSI, for instance, takes her seriously and interviews her as an “expert” on COVID-19:
And, so, a crank continues to spread her COVID-19 disinformation.
230 replies on “Dr. Kelly Victory: Another despicable physician spreading disinformation about COVID-19”
There is a new video going around too published by a doctor from Georgia named Carrie Madej. She talks about how the DNA-based vaccines are turning people into GMOs. She is a DO, and as a 3rd year DO medical student, it really upsets me to see such quackery.
That is a new level of “fractally wrong”.
Please tell me she thinks that a DNA vaccine will turn you into GMO corn!
Brandon, you’re an idiot. Either that or just really uneducated. Just one simple check on the State of Georgia’s physician lookup portal would tell you that Dr Carrie Madej got her physician’s license in 2003. And in case you have trouble doing Math, this year is 2020, so that means she’s been a Doctor for 13 years, Not a 3rd year medical student. So you’re the one spreading misinformation. Shame on you! If you want to die a slow death or be sick for the remainder of your life, go ahead and take the vaccine that alters your DNA, making you a Genetically Modified Organism (and not in a good way). By all means, you have that choice.
This is my first public post ever. I normally don’t care to post anything. And let people say whatever they want to say. But this is too important, it’s a matter of life and death for the entire human race, so I took the effort to post my first public post. Even God loves idiots. So for God’s sake, WAKE UP! You’ve been drinking the Kool-aid long enough. It’s all about money, power, and control of the masses. The Power That Be that runs this country and this world does NOT care a flip about your well-being.
Just because she does agree with you and isn’t spreading fear. Doesn’t mean she’s not legit. Look up her bio for yourself (I did). https://expertperspectives.com/experts/Kelly–Victory
No one said she’s “not legit.” I said she was wrong. Of course, when you’re as wrong as she is about so many things about COVID-19, that leads me to question her legitimacy when speaking about a viral pandemic. Maybe she knows how to deal with mass casualties from natural disasters or mass shootings, but she sure as hell doesn’t know how to deal with coronavirus.
Whenever I discover that someone is ” wrong about so many things” in general, I tend to question their credibility on other topics- whether in their area of expertise or not.
A few guidelines for sceptics.
Thus, I note when woo-meisters or anti-vaxxers quote laughably inaccurate information or easily visible errors because:
— they usually present themselves as well informed, knowledgeable and even scholarly- if they were so, they would know how to check for errors
— if someone uses words carelessly or mispronounces them, it is an alarm bell ringing loudly: wouldn’t they know how to correct themselves or at least have been exposed to a wide variety of concepts enough to correct their usage?
— it shows how slovenly their “research” skills and reporting are
— and that they can’t learn when they repeat errors, uncorrected many times.
One of the idiots I survey, continuously mispronounces names of people/ city names that are not English in origin- on top of the above, I know that his degrees are suspicious because
in his age group, in his country of origin, most college students/ graduate school students/ doctorate candidates are required to study foreign languages to some depth, showing secondary education for 3-4 years and reading and/or translation skills in at least one foreign language ( usually European)-
if you mispronounce names in SEVERAL European languages ( those most commonly taught) it shows that you haven’t studied them. Students, even in secondary school, learn the spelling patterns of the language they study so that they pronounce them correctly and can even make jokes about them. Americans who follow baseball or hockey can usually manage to pronounce Spanish or French names because they hear announcers pronounce them so many times.
A few test words: Camus, Montagnier, Mozart, Jung, Javier, Reyes, Galileo, even Leicester– I know it’s English but you catch my drift by now.
Another dangerous quack sharing misinformation and fear… Dr Victory and this woman along countless other fools are contradicting danger and making false claims ”
This woman video is truly dangerous and will cost lives…
Carrie Madej is Osteopath student ‘intern’ not yet done on 3rd year.
her video is attention seeking and only URGENt issue is disclosing that these so called doctors are arguing with actual experts, infectious disease brilliant research scholars, she’s making ridiculous claimns as to date we do not have a release on any actual vaccine, there are hundreds of countries and thousands of actual scientist-experts working on it and vaccine must make it through 3 rounds of clinical trials before being tested on select group (any vaccine claim is total nonsense, dangerous as hell & self promotion by that individual)…
“There is a new video going around too published by a doctor from Georgia named Carrie Madej. She talks about how the DNA-based vaccines are turning people into GMOs. She is a DO, and as a 3rd year DO medical student, it really upsets me to see such quackery.” #QUACK #FALSEclaims #Foolrant
“That is a new level of “fractally wrong”.
Please tell me she thinks that a DNA vaccine will turn you into GMO corn!”
you are TOTALLY unconvincing where she IS. Saying a small percentage of fatalities still makes for a large total of deaths is irrelevant. The total amount of deaths from anything is worldwide allways a large number like the total amount of deaths everyday from any disease or whatever cause is allways a large number.
People die! How are you gonna stop it?? This one argument exposes all your stupidity, the stupidity off all those led by fear. And it s fear that s the worst killer.
She is totally right about the vaccination-bullshit, where was the vaccin when in the Netherlands 2 years ago 10000 people died from influenza???? You can t get around this argument!!!! No one can!
I can’t find any proof that she’s licensed to practice medicine.
Very impressive but FEMA!!! that’s a big red flag. But yeah good link and post.
Add nurse Erin Marie Olszewski, who has been taken down by ZDoggMD.
I know one thing Dr. Kelly Victory was right on: I spoke personally to two nurses here in my state of New Mexico, and they said this: Patients in the hospital are tested almost daily, and every time they test positive, that is counted as another CASE. Exactly what Dr. Victory said. Then one nurse said, one day we messed with the tests, we sent in several tests with fake names and we swabbed nothing–every one of those came back positive. I will be sending a letter to our governor regarding this fake data because the CASE numbers are not accurate. Also I question the validity of the PCR test created by Dr. Kary Mullis as a manufacturing technique, not a test— and the CDC itself states that it is for experimental use only and not for diagnostic purposes. Scientists are saying that this virus has not been isolated. Is that true?
You are into all the conspiracies. The virus has been completely sequenced multiple times.
You’re correct Diane on the faulty testing. It is estimated that if every state wrote death certificates as they have always done, the fatality rate from this would be down 90%. And that’s not taking into account bad testing. I thought the story of people getting positive test results without ever taking the test was just an urban myth until it happened to my friend. Then you read of CT where they discovered a false positive rate of 60% and what did the FDA do? They told them how to tweak the test. Well, if you can tweak it to make it work you can obviously tweak it to get the results you want. Now how reliable is that. BUT, the fact remains, this has a very low fatality rate mostly centered around those w/ health issues. It is like the flu except it is not near so bad as the flu for children. It is ridiculous that we have let the health dept get involved in economics. The economy is life. Kill the economy and there will be far more deaths than from the virus. The CDC director has said there have been more deaths from suicide and overdoses than from the virus. Death comes to all. Most likely it will NOT be via covid. So go out and live! Every Dr thinks he’s a major deity and can spew whatever he wants. Do your own research and don’t let any of them look down on you. They are often guilty of confirmation bias.
You are on point – I say, nurses don’t lie, no motive- they should have more of a voice in this pandemic, which has become 100% political!
“Since no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available, assays designed for detection of the 2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA . . . to MIMIC clinical specimen. (Emphasis in CAPS is mine).
https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download
And a telling quote from Dr Mullis, who won the Nobel Prize for his PCR invention:
“Quantitative PCR is an oxymoron.” PCR is intended to identify substances qualitatively, but by its very nature is unsuited for estimating numbers. Although there is a common misimpression that the viral-load tests actually count the number of viruses in the blood, these tests cannot detect free, infectious viruses at all.”
@Jeff Johns,
So how would you describe the implication of the Cycle Threshold value?
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa619/5841456
I know for sure that Dr. Kelly Victory is right about one person testing positive multiple times and being counted as multiple cases because I spoke to two nurses here in New Mexico and they told me that people in the hospital are tested almost daily and every time the test comes back positive that is another CASE. So how can that Case count be accurate? I am writing a letter to our governor who is mandating orders based on the data that is flawed.
Sure you did. Sure you did.???♂️
You blind, deaf and dumber than a box of petrified toothpicks. Mandate vaxx will transform you into purposeful petrified cyborg toothpicks.
I to enjoy the occasional game of Exquisite Cadaver. Though, ‘intentful rock-hard robot-man tooth-dick’ never made it to the board in polite company.
Brandon, You’re an idiot. Either that or just really uneducated. Just one simple check on the State of Georgia’s physician lookup portal would tell you that Dr Carrie Madej got her physician’s license in 2003. And in case you have trouble doing Math, this year is 2020, so that means she’s been a Doctor for 13 years, Not a 3rd year medical student. So you’re the one spreading misinformation. Shame on you! If you want to die a slow death or be sick for the remainder of your life, go ahead and take the vaccine that alters your DNA, making you a Genetically Modified Organism (and not in a good way). By all means, you have that choice.
This is my first public post ever. I normally don’t care to post anything. And let people say whatever they want to say. But this is too important, it’s a matter of life and death for the entire human race, so I took the effort to post my first public post. Even God loves idiots. So for God’s sake, WAKE UP! You’ve been drinking the Kool-aid long enough. It’s all about money, power, and control of the masses. The Power That Be that runs this country and this world does NOT care a flip about your well-being.
“…got her physician’s license in 2003. And in case you have trouble doing Math, this year is 2020, so that means she’s been a Doctor for 13 years…”
’nuff said.
“This is my first public post ever.”
We can tell. Practice using Notepad for a while.
That’s not how vaccines function. In fact, it is literally impossible for them to alter your DNA.
Brandon actually said: “She is a DO, and as a 3rd year DO medical student, it really upsets me to see such quackery.”
What he meant that he is the 3rd year DO medical student, and was upset that any osteopath would spout such quackery.
Reading is fundamental.
“I normally don’t care to post anything.”
Good policy; you should stick to it.
Dee, it looks like you’re the idiot, spewing the usual catch phrases like WAKE UP! (in caps lock, of course), Genetically Modified Organisms, drinking the Kool-Aid, DNA altering, etc.. If you were properly educated, you’d have realized that Brandon was referring to himself as being the 3rd year medical student. But that’s ok, as you say, “Even God loves idiots.”
These kind of people make me a bit mad.
It’s mostly just talking about economic damage and elderly people who die, who would have died anyway.
Exept there are also younger people dieing from the disease and particulary those working in healthcare and having contact with Covid-19 patients are at risk.
Yes, a lockdown is bad for the economy.
You know what else is bad for the economy?
People getting ill and needing hospital care and suffer long term damage afterwards, if the ever will return to their old selves. The care these people need, also costs lots of money.
And do these people really think that if more people get ill and there will not be enough hospital care available, that people still will go on doing like nothing is wrong?
Some people state that lives are lost because of delayed treatments, but that would be a reason to try and avoid more Covid-19 cases and not let the disease run havoc. But to some it seems to be a reason to end lockdowns, so people can get the treatments they need. But if there are to many Covid-19 cases, there probably will not be enough room and personel to care for other patients.
Also, “old people would have died anyway” my shoe!
Being from a country with high life expectancy, I don’t see a 75 y.o. person’s death from covid as a normal thing, since under normal circumstances one can expect them to live 10 years more at least. There is a heck of a lot of things one can do in 10 years.
You are right, but some people seem to think old people are just the ones with one foot in the grave, people who might just have lived for a few more months, but old people still can have a good life, if they wouldn’t have been killed by this disease.
THIS.
My parents are in their early 70’s and in much better shape, physically and cognitively, than any of my grandparents were at that age – some actually didn’t reach it. They are active, mostly self-sufficient, and take care of my disabled sister. They would be deeply offended to be labeled a drag on society.
And the at-risk age starts around the 65-70’s. Even for the previous generation, dying in one 60’s was still seen as ‘too early’.
My mom was 78 when she died from a brainhaemorage en before she died she was a very active lady, doing voluntary work and still riding her bike in a pace even some younger people couldn’t keep up with.
People who consider elderly people as just a burden to society, who can easily be sacrificed, to save the economy, really make me mad and angry.
Word.
My grandma will be 90, she’s happy, healthy but for a few old age ailments, and active. She’s certainly not dying of a bit of arthrosis or varicose veins. While she’s not going to live forever, there are better ways to die than nasty pneumonia and being locked up in a covid ward.
Also, near my hometown, the archaeologists dug up many a settlement from some 25 000 y. BP to early Middle Ages and even in prehistory, there were people who lived to old age ev en though they were crippled. I recall one from a hunter-gatherer culture who had damaged jaw and practically couldn’t open his mouth or chew, meaning that someone had to find soft food for him or prechew it.
Especially in preindustrial societies, even that grandparent who could barely walk could sit somewhere and cut apples for drying or some such…. and the above mentioned grandma makes excellent jams which are an effing hard currency among my gourmet friends.
Old and useless my arse. When people who weren’t able to make pottery knew that it’s good to care for the weak, why can’t we do it?
Look at every flu season recorded the population of age 65 and up make up approximately 75% of the death rate for flu as well as pneumonia fact not fiction
The biggest misinformation about COVID19 is to suggest that the entire population is at risk for death (it is not); that it is one disease (it is not; it is two distinct diseases: a viral like syndrome and an increasingly severe immune dysfunction). High mortality was due to the advice by Fauci et al not to use steroids when steroids were clearly indicated. Once this nonsensical recommendation was removed, the mortality rate on those requiring ventilation, plummeted.
The refusal of Fauci et al to even consider HCQ regimens as a possible treatment to prevent the progression of the disease, and then the promotion of false studies (at least Lancet had the intellectual integrity to pull the bogus paper) to indicate HCQ was dangerous is beyond the pale.
There is a known mechanism by which diet may affect the progression of the disease. Hyperglycemia (an all too common condition in our society, with or without diabetes type 2 ) deactivates IRF5. Lack of IRF5 promotes autoimmune disease. The cytokine storm is to an autoimmune reaction (such as rheumatoid arthritis) what a CAT5 hurricae is to a thunderstorm.
There is a known mechanism by which lack of vitamin D also promotes autoimmune disease. Vitamin D suppresses autoimmunity. Vitamin D is also correlated with sunshine exposure. Adequate sunshine is also necessary for optimal immune response; including activation of cytotoxic T cells. Exopsure to sunshine and avoidance of heavily sugared snacks may alter the progression of the disease in some.
The list of misinformation, most of it promoted by the Fauci gang, goes on and on and one. When it comes down to it, there is plenty of misinformation and the blame for the misinformation is equally shared by virtually everyone who is a MD with a blog site and all those echo-chambers, claiming to be scientific sties, but lacking scientific rigor and understanding. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and in the case of COVID-19 everyone seems to be living in a glass house.
LOL. Someone received their anti-Fauci talking points, I see. It’s hilarious to me how you’re angry about misinformation, and then you proceed to spread your own. I think a “pants on fire” taunt is due here.
@ Dr Rene:
I know you must be working your butt off as an epi . Thanks for ALL YOU DO.
If you have a moment, check out the anti-Fauci remarks on the Airborne thread ( and elsewhere). You need a laugh.
@Denise
Don’t you be encouragin no blasted epidemiologists! They’re obviously behind keeping this disease going so they can treat the whole world as a great big lab and produce a whole mountain range of papers. They’re worse than those pharma types gleefully hoping to force their mandatory vaccines on everyone.
The creator of the PCR test Dr mullis. Who won a Nobel peace prize has a interview where he calls out anthony fauci, as a liar and a fraud immunologist. He wanted to debate Anthony fauci and fauci refused. Fauci and NIAIDS was responsible for a 3.7 million dollar grant to the wuhan lab. He has his finger prints all over this hoax virus.
Kary Mullis turned into a total crank after inventing PCR. Also, he won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry, not the Nobel Peace Prize. Please do at least try to get something that basic correct.??
LOL. Oooookay.
“There is a known mechanism by which lack of vitamin D also promotes autoimmune disease. Vitamin D suppresses autoimmunity. ”
Which has exactly what to do with COVID-19?It’s not an autoimmune condition. And, there’s no evidence that anyone contracting it is vitiamin D deficient.
Yes there is and yes there is.watch update 97 on medcram … non-political. Just breaks down the latest studies.
Um, Scott, no. I mean, first of all, you were too fucking lazy to even provide a link to what you’re talking about, as though “medcram” were some sort of commonplace reference.
Second, I for one almost never waste time with attempted argument by Y—be.* It’s on you to summarize or, better, transcribe these 13.5 compelling minutes.
*Yes, I’ll post links, but I can’t remember the last time one was intended as anything but harmless diversion.
^ Oh, I am further disinclined by crap about “Strengthening Your Immune Response.”
Second verse, same as the first.
@Pathcoin
“The cytokine storm is to an autoimmune reaction (such as rheumatoid arthritis) what a CAT5 hurricae is to a thunderstorm.”
Could you elaborate on this, Pathcoin? I think the analogy is perhaps backwards in a way. A thunderstorm can contain a tornado which, locally, can be much more destructive than a CAT5 hurricae.
@ Rann:
For sure.
In fact, on another thread, I noted that searching the net for anti-Fauci sentiment yielded results involving Trump’s inner circle and conservative television host, Tucker Carlson. Amongst those I survey, Gary Null and Del Bigtree found Dr Fauci to be both incompetent ( as if they could judge what PH or SBM demands) and corrupt; right here at RI, his detractors include anti-vax scoffers and a general nay-sayer.
AS I noted below, ( Yann, CNN) several US state have contained the virus following
advice remarkably similar to Fauci’s. In fact, yesterday or Tuesday, he said that the US could manage the virus in 4-8 weeks through the use of masks and social distancing without shutting down everything. I think that a few places may take him seriously but NOT ALL. Actually, many of the states that are affected most now were
quite cavalier about re-opening or not closing down to begin with ( AZ, TX, FL,ID, OK). Unfortunately, politics seems to be a factor with redder states being more likely to fall into a less SB mode and the aforesaid successful states being rather anti-Trump.
Strange, Pathcoin……
The US is ~8.3 times bigger in population but has over 32 times the number of diagnosed cases. In fact, it’s gotten so bad in the States that you have diagnosed, for the last 2 weeks, more cases EVERY 2 DAYS than Canada has had during the entire pandemic!
Today alone, the States had new cases totalling 81% of Canada’s all-time total.
Canada has received about the same information as USA was given by Dr. Fauci throughout the pandemic. In fact, his advice was featured every day The difference is all of Canada treated it like an actual emergency and followed the advice of Dr. Fauci and out medical officers of health. We are now slowly reopening and watching for any potential hot spots……all the while with no spike in cases as we are seeing in Florida and other states…. I “wonder” what the difference has been……
Maybe you complainers about Dr. Fauci should acting pompous and know-better-than-the-expert, shut your mouths, listen and follow his advice!!!! It’s working anywhere else in the world that has!!!! Until you star doing it, Canada has NO intention of opening its borders to you riff-raff.
that should read “stop acting pompous”
Open up fully and move on with our lives. There is nary a thing that Fauci and / or the CDC have gotten correct to date.
And, no interest in going to Canada anytime soon so you can shut down your smart a** remarks…..LOL
“There is nary a thing that Fauci and / or the CDC have gotten correct to date.”
Prove it. Provide the PubMed indexed studies that would correct their “misinformation.” Make sure it is current data, nothing something that is out of date from April and May.
When was this, Dr. Path—?
and what causes the misinformation? do you know? the money game people!!! stop the money game and trades- it would be no reason to do that!!!!! people you are trying to fix wrong things!!!
So…Pathcoin, where did you get your advanced degrees in STEM?
“Vitamin D is also correlated with sunshine exposure. Adequate sunshine is also necessary for optimal immune response; including activation of cytotoxic T cells.”
First, then why are COVID infection and death rates so high in the Sunshine belt?
Second: I’m going to need a lot of citations for “sunshine” being part of the activation pathway of cytotoxic T cells. Because I’ve done a lot of work with those specific T cells and, no, they do not require sunshine, UV light, or really any light at all.
Exposure to sunshine – must explain the situation in the sunshine state and India then.
“To put it baldly, if it’s a topic and area of study you know nothing about and after a bit of cramming you decide that basically everyone who’s studied the question is wrong, there’s a very small chance you’ve rapidly come upon a great insight and a very great likelihood you’re ignorant “. politely re-phrasing one Josh Marshall about another self-declared expert.
Smartest thing I’ve read. Yet you will get blasted because other scientists don’t take the time to read the latest studies on vitamin D or decadron. People are lazy. And FYI I’m not even anti-Fauci on this. We just didn’t know what we didn’t know.
Vitamin D has been hyped for a lot of things not related to bone health and turned out to be ineffective for most if not all of them. Chasing a chimera diverts resources away from other, potentially more fruitful areas.
@ Julian Frost
“Vitamin D has been hyped for a lot of things not related to bone health.”
Ah… my childhood… that bone fetish…
So, there’s “no evidence” that mask and social distancing help slow the spread of the disease so we sholdn’t bother. But, there’s no evicedne that hydroxychloroquine works but we should us that.
And, as a surgeon, you think she’d have a better understanding of the real life implications of wearing a mask.
MEG You’ve got it right. There is “no evidence” that mask wearing and social distancing help slow the spread of the disease. There IS evidence that the mask has zero effect on COVID-1984. All that anyone who doubts this FACT needs to do is buy (or find) a box of masks & READ the statement printed clearly on the box. For the lazy:
“This product is an ear loop mask, this product is not a respirator and will not provide any protections against COVID-19 (coronavirus) and other viruses or contaminants.”
Numerous annual studies on the N95 respirator mask have shown that even it is not effective against spreading Influenza. Cloth masks, due to improper use (repeated use, sliding up & down neck, touching constantly etc.) have actually contributed to the wearer becoming infected & causing hypoxia!
There is actual evidence that hydroxychloroquine not only works, it has actually CURED the COVID-1984 illness in 90-100% of patients depending on which study you review. Of course you won’t know any of this if you receive your (mis) information from articles like this one or anything on mainstream media news (all funded by big pharma who doesn’t want anything cured & will discredit any cures discovered & suppress from coverage).
Demonic Greedy Jesuit Keebler elves like Dr. Fauci (who should be executed for crimes against humanity) don’t focus on giving sound & genuine medical advice, such as boosting the immune system or taking decades old proven & cheap remedies like HCQ all in favor of an untested & dangerous vaccine that his conflict of interest wife is involved in the testing of & stands to make a pile of cash for them both, even though we have a flu virus, for example & yet we still have the flu. Well we used to, until all flu cases have been reassigned as COVID-1984 In order to boost the already fictitious numbers in desperate attempts to justify this fake plan-demic along with fakestream news outlets focusing on the large numbers of new cases which directly corelates with the increased number of those 80% false positive results so the economy gets destroyed & the one world BS can be further implemented. In a real pandemic such fudging of numbers would never be necessary!
I was going to write something but Jade Johnson pretty much sums up the whole thing. People still believe the crap they hear on MSM and don’t LOOK and investigate. Big Pharma, Bill Gates etc…. wake up sheeple they don’t care about you!
I do know that Dr. Kelly is right on one thing: Two nurses here in New Mexico told me that patients are tested multiple times during their stay in the hospital and every time the test comes back positive that is counted as another case. I am sending a letter to our governor who is basing her orders on this incorrect data. Also I wonder about the PCR test because the creator of that test, created by Dr. Kary Mullis as a manufacturing technique, not a test—Scientists are saying it could not actually test for infection and identify the virus causing the infection. I also hear from scientists speaking out about this — that the virus has not been isolated. Confusing…On the CDC website it states that PCR test is for experimental use only, not for diagnostic purposes.
There is documented evidence of the use of social distancing to control an epidemic at least as far back as the 1660s, The most famous example I know of being Eyam the “plague village” in Derbyshire in the UK, but isolating households with a plague victim by nailng the doors shut and painting a large red cross on the doors was used eg in London in the same period and there were severe penalties for breaking the isolation.
It occurs to me that Boccaccio in the 14th C may have noticed this.
She seems to be in private practice at “Victory Health” in Steamboat Springs, which has no Web presence. (It was also a pain in the ass to verify her license until I found this amusing report.) No hospital affiliations listed by U.S. News, for what that’s worth.
Time to go check the Ohio license.
^ It’s clean, but she just maintains an office in the Fifth Third Center.
@ Orac,
“We are months into the pandemic, and communities across the country are suffering needlessly. However, the reason they’re suffering is not because of the “overblown”
response, but rather because our political leadership has been utterly bankrupt at the national level (and at the state level in many states). There is no national strategy (and hasn’t
been).”
Here are your political leaders who have been “utterly bankrupt”. If anything; the biggest mistake the political leader I am sure you are referring to made, was to appoint them.
“Today, President Donald J. Trump announced the formation of the President’s Coronavirus Task Force. Members of the Task Force have been meeting on a daily basis since Monday. At today’s meeting, which the President chaired, he charged the Task Force with leading the United States Government response to the novel 2019 coronavirus and with keeping him apprised of developments.
Secretary Alex Azar, Department of Health and Human Services
Robert O’Brien, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
Dr. Robert Redfield, Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health
Deputy Secretary Stephen Biegun, Department of State
Ken Cuccinelli, Acting Deputy Secretary, Department of Homeland Security
Joel Szabat, Acting Under Secretary for Policy, Department of Transportation
Matthew Pottinger, Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor
Rob Blair, Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor to the Chief of Staff
Joseph Grogan, Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council
Christopher Liddell, Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy Coordination
Derek Kan, Executive Associate Director, Office of Management and Budget”
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/
The italics are for what, exactly?
Why did you leave out the ‘head’ of the task force; Mike (meme man face and pray and electro-shock (disputed but, yea, of course he did) the gay away conversion clinic advocate) Pence??
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/29/847580759/for-pence-coronavirus-task-force-is-a-high-profile-assignment-with-political-ris
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com./washington-secrets/coronavirus-task-force-chief-mike-pence-you-did-it-america
Ra ra.
That is facepalm level of bulldust. Perhaps Mike Pence should have a look at what people in Australia have been asked to do? We have a second lockdown under way. People are grumbling and a few have been flouting the rules, but most are putting up with it. Not only that, we had a huge public driven donation of food, children’s activities and money for families caught in a hard lockdown of apartment towers.
The US President has spent more time blaming other people for the COVID-19 situation in the US than he has marshaling the private sector, the states, etc. and instead has used Twitter to encourage his supporters to not listen to the experts.
No terminal period, Mitzi; this isn’t WaPo (which UO takes care of just fine, unless you really want to see the lead photo).
— Mike Pence, vice president of the United States.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/vice-president-mike-pence-op-ed-isnt-coronavirus-second-wave/
Also, thx, ‘whole-of-America’ and ALL of its peoples ‘working together to protect the health and safety of our natiion.’
https://i.imgur.com/tpV4PIE.png
r/agedlikemilk
The relevant list seems to be:
Mark Meadows
Deborah Birx
Joe Grogan
Chris Liddell
Mark Short
Russell T. Vought
Hope Hicks
Kevin A Hassett
Steve Mnuchin
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-response-failure-leadership.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
A couple tidbits
and
and TBL.
Is it just me, or was Birx a bit too comfortable settling into her role as WH soothsayer (although the disinfectant moment was totally r/watchpeopledieinside)?
Idk, perhaps Putin handed Trump some pictures/video of her engaged in some bawdy depravity?
A youtuber I watch pointed out something hilariously depressing. A lot of anti maskers claim that masks can’t prevent the virus from spreading, but also claim that masks trap carbon dioxide. How can a mask trap carbon dioxide and prevent oxygen from entering if it’s so porous it lets a virus, larger than a CO2 or oxygen molecule, escape? I know this isn’t news to anyone who reads this blog who isn’t an anti masker, mind. But if there are doctors who peddle ideas like that, it’s alarming. They have to be using doublethink, right? There’s no way you can graduate from medical school without understanding the relative size of molecules…
Kelly Victory has also claimed that responses to the pandemic are a scheme to elect Democrats.
“Victory helped spread conspiracy theories that coronavirus-related closures are a Democratic plot, coordinated in conjunction with the “deep state” and the press, to defeat President Donald Trump in November. She also alleged an over-reaction to the pandemic is a Democratic plot to steal the 2020 election via mail voting and shared a tweet accusing Democrats of stealing elections that way in 2018.
Victory is a critic of Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the nation’s leading expert on infectious disease. She shared a tweet calling for him to be criminally prosecuted and another calling him an idiot. Fauci has drawn the ire of some on the far right for supporting closures.
On social media, Victory has aligned herself for weeks with ultra-conservatives, such as Ann Coulter, who have spread dubious information about coronavirus. Victory knows Coulter and pleaded no contest to misdemeanor disorderly conduct related to an altercation after an event with Coulter in Colorado in 2012.”
http://denverpost.com/2020/04/07/coronavirus-steve-house-congress-victory/
Well, she’s consistent. (ISTR that I may have seen some under the ‘Colleen’ name, but it’s hardly interesting at this point.)
She also had a seemingly brief stint as an expert witness.
ok. First let’s get that trailing ‘vocal fry’ out of the way:
Larry: And in the snow, I see … a tree!
Writers (applauding): Yes! Yes!
Larry: Wait, wait I haven’t finished yet.
Third Writer: There’s more?
Larry: And by this tree, gentlemen, I see … a dog!
Writers: Olé!
Larry: And gentlemen, this dog goes up to the tree, and he piddles on it.
Writers: Hallelujah!
Sixth Writer: Have we got a movie!
Fifth Writer: He tells it the way it is!
Fourth Writer: It’s where it’s at!
.
.
.
Larry: Well now we’re getting somewhere. No, wait. A new angle! In the snow, instead of the tree, I see Rock Hudson, and instead of the dog I see Doris Day and, gentlemen, Doris Day goes up to Rock Hudson and she kisses him. A love story. Intercourse Italian style. David Hemmings as a hippy Gestapo officer. Frontal nudity. A family picture. A comedy. And then when Doris Day’s kissed Rock Hudson she says something funny like…
.
.
.
Larry: I like that! I like that, I can’t take it any more, and then Rock Hudson says ‘I’m a very rich film producer and I need a lobotomy’ and then Doris Dog says ‘I think you’re very handsome and I’m going to take all my clothes off’ and then Doris Dog turns into a yak and goes to the bathroom on David Lemming. No, wait, wait!
{Video pending. Maybe. Piss off YouRube with your endless scroll of totally irrelevant content suggestions; just as bad as NF now.}
I once buried a puppy for a friend. As I laid it upon its bed of cedar chips, I thought I saw it move. Upon closer inspection, its throat was completely choked with trying to escape worms (tapeworms, I think. They were kinda big). If only that puppy was allowed to be barefaced and not rebreath all of those, even though he was a biter…. But in not ‘rebreathing’ your own germs then you are doing exactly what the virus wants — giving it the chance to escape an environment that is actively killing it. These people are coronavirus worshipers and a few of them don’t even realize that.
Rather than a movie, that read more like a script for one (or two) of those bloody awful, pretentious perfume/after shave adverts.
by Holly Yan, CNN:
From Worst to First about places that tamed Covid-19 and how they did it
CT, NY, MA, NJ VT,
And they did it by NOT listening to Fauci.
I’m JOKING, Sue me.
@ Denice Walter,
The image at the beginning of this post shows a coronavirus with spiked glycoproteins using the color red. The color red is often associated with danger. It is my understanding that glycoproteins do not have a ~700-635 nm wavelength (i.e., red coloring) in the visible spectrum.
Q. Is the CDC using red coloring to induce an emotional response to SARS-CoV-2.
Please advise..
I would be happy with a rational response, what do you think?
I said, “Sue me” not ask stupid questions.
Doesn’t
<
blockquote>https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2019/05/24/josh-rushing-pwns-antivaxer-del-bigtree/#comment-410257“>that shit have a sell-by date, Doucheniak?
^ Sorry, I’m going to tidy that one up a little:
that shit
We need an update to the Godzilla face palm poster with it wearing a mask.
I’m not really talented at Photoshop, but… try this.
Nice work.
Not bad at all. I’m surprised no one had yet made this modification. Quick search revealed nothing, so you’re the first!
Compare:
The 2019 measles outbreak in Samoa: 83 deaths out of a population of 200,000. So ~0.04 percent of population of Samoa died from measles.
So far in US COVID-19: 139,000 deaths out of a population of 375,000,000, so (as of now) ~0.04 percent of population of US has died from COVID-19. Its gonna go higher, possibly doubling given how things appear.
Samoa, during its declared state of emergency arrested an anti-vax “holistic” healer Edwin Tamamese for telling Samoans not to vaccinate and for promoting ineffective alternative med treatments instead.
The US governernment (President Trump) declared a national emergency on March 13, 2020 due to COVID-19 outbreaks. It’s too much to hope that someone in authority would arrest these dangerously disinformational COVID-19 physicians during this pandemic/state of emergency, but I’d like to think that somewhere in the 50 states there’s a medical board with a spine that would grok they are fully and completely justified and authorized to sanction physicians such as Kelly Victory. Apparently there is not. As a physician I am ashamed.
Aside from these important points, it always trouble me where the people talking about the suffering from response measures due to the pandemic only talk about deaths from the pandemic, and not the intense suffering it caused in many more. Including those suffering for months. That doesn’t count?
And even with the logic of her – as you point out – highly problematic analogy, no, I don’t think she’d know how to react to a person she met if that person was a con artist that’s really, really good at getting under people’s defenses, hijacking their resources and using them against them.
Not all people are the same, just as not all viruses are, and no, you cannot assume you’ll know how to react in ways that avoid harm even with people. And yes, the biggest people is what Orac pointed out, but the analogy doesn’t even work on its terms.
That was my point as well. Besides, today I heard the news that people who had a relatively mild disease and didn’t need hospital care, are the ones who are longer suffering from other problems, being tired and memory-problems.
I know two people who tested positive in late March/early April. Neither had to be hospitalized at any point. Both were sick over 6 weeks. They are now considered “recovered.” One still gets short of breath with anything more strenuous than getting up to use the bathroom, and the other shows neurological effects similar to post-concussion symptoms.
@ Terrie
You are so right. Don’t let anyone tell Covid-19 is just like the flu and we make to much of a hastle of it. I’ve had the same kind of arguments with someone on a Dutch site. Someone stating, the negative consequences of the social distancing were worse, than the negative consequences of the disease. People who think so, should think again.
A colleague and his wife both got Covid19, just before our French lockdown. Both are in their 50’s. They didn’t have to spent much time in hospital and both survived fine.
But that colleague reported to me how they fell dead tired for the next 6-8 weeks afterward.
Also, his wife had previously some onset of Parkinson, and her state has somewhat worsened.
Orac. This is very good. Please review this article by Beda Stadler and comment/publish article if necessary. Soon this is likely to be the new favorite doctor in the right wing fringe
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809
I saw a thread a few days ago about the costs of a COVID-19 pandemic if the U.S. had done nothing. If I find it, I’ll post the link here. From what I recall, it was terrible.
At a 1% death rate, over 3 million extra deaths. On its own, that would “monkey wrench the economy” (exact phrase). But then it looked at hospitalisations and non death sequelae.
For every one death, 19 hospitalisations would occur. Patients with permanent damage to their hearts and lungs would number in the 10s of millions. The economy would not just be monkey wrenched, it would be nuked.
Those are things people tend to forget, if they are talking about the economic damage of lockdowns.
Found it!
https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-disease-with-1-mortality-shut-down-the-United-States/answer/Franklin-Veaux
Dorit: “Aside from these important points, it always trouble me where the people talking about the suffering from response measures due to the pandemic only talk about deaths from the pandemic, and not the intense suffering it caused in many more. Including those suffering for months. That doesn’t count?”
The miserably ill and those with long-term sequelae from infectious diseases have never mattered to antivaxers; why should they matter to Covid-deniers?
It is not just Covid-deniers, but also just people who think the lockdowns and social distancing are worse than the disease, because they are bad for the economy.
The ideas and comments presented here are amazing. Unfortunately, many of us in auto-moderation have our point-of-view delayed based on Orac’s busy work schedule; extending cancer patients lives, through surgery, and writing medical research grants.
@ Orac’s minions.
Here’s a suggestion, in an effort to reinforce “auto-moderated opinions matter” please ask Orac to re-evaluate his priorities ASAP.
It’s not my place to tell him to ban you outright.
Now where is that thumbs up button?
Orac, please, woul you consider permanently blocking this gnat?
My only comment; if you are going to try to shoot down someone else and their perspective, learn to spell. Otherwise, you immediately lose credibility.
Sure thing. Just because I don’t catch every typo cranking out thousands of words of text every week means I must not know what I’m talking about. ???♂️
Fred’s sentence structure is clumsy, therefore his complaint is invalid.
Semicolons, Fred, semicolons: learn them, love them.
Yabba dabba do!
Any time someone says that herd immunity is the best way to handle this, they should (should but won’t) be forced to state it as “killing two million plus Americans is the best way to handle this”. And, of course, condemning millions more to suffering and often lingering after effects.
? I hope it is made of asbestos. I figured he’d wear one of those Dr. Who ‘Are you my mummy?’ masks with a port that opens up for whatever type beam-of-the-week he might need to shoot out.
https://i.redd.it/6oi31z0ttur41.jpg
“In the middle of a pandemic, they’re sellin’ BEANS!?”
https://youtu.be/xDlzMiEV75k?t=233
What frustrates me – I often feel like banging my head on the wall when reading through Facebook – is the Covid-19 deniers angle. You either die or you recover 100%. No in between. Unfortunately, life is never so black and white. I have yet to see anyone of them mention the potential effects of Covid-19 after you recover. Millions of people that will have permanent heart and lung damage, strokes, or neurological issues. And what then, with millions of people permanently scarred, how will healthcare systems and economies be? It is unfortunate.
Another really dumb thing Dr Victory says “prohibited from worshiping”.
No. This is false. Nothing in the universe is prohibiting anyone from worshiping in their mind and in their heart.
The only thing that is being (lightly) restricted is engaging in large-group in-person services. There’s nothing stopping you from going to church online. There’s nothing stopping you from praying over the phone or over the fence.
Always got to be claiming persecution.
The Orthodox Union agrees.
@ JustaTech
Well, some religious currents ask for some very flashy and public acts of devotions. Generally on the evangelical/orthodox side of the spectrum.
So apparently worshipping in their mind doesn’t count. So much for the all-seeing ceiling cat.
My catechism is a bit dusty. Isn’t there a passage in the New testament on the topic of public pretend-worshipping, involving Pharisees?
Less flippantly, worshiping en masse is a strong part of what makes religion a social tool for community building.
But as you point out, nowadays there are other social tools than physical attendance. If the Canterburry vicar can deliver his sermon via a video taken in the cathedral’s garden, with only the local cat as his witness, people can do their worship keeping their distance, too.
I don’t know why I’m the only person I know who thinks that The Devil’s Rain is a cinematic classic. OK, Criterion hasn’t memorialized it as they have Equinox, but still.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-brain-idUSKBN24A1NR
And again ‘they’ try another way to scare people away from testing.
Nothing like a hearty laugh after spending a full hour at the Target trying to find light bulbs and Post-Its (too large, mind you).
https://i.redd.it/xpfspcwic8b51.jpg
But, if insolated from the face a little bit and charged to a potential of ~8-10kV relative to the body then would that not be effective? It takes very little power to achieve this — milliwatts, depending on humidity.
No.
I’m not talking about like that but like the smokeless ashtrays. That is, the stuff stuck to the outside would be blown back out and the stuff on the inside would be blown back in.
I once made a joke ‘smokeless ashtray’ in my ’69 Thunderbird that sure cleared the air (god knows where it went, all over every surface, I guess) — It was an old tv flyback through a more modern tripler/rectifier that pushed the open load voltage to around 70 kV.
The joke was that if you actually laid your cig into it then it magically vanished.
The same setup with the more modern integrated flyback was used with a fan, wide plastic tube, and dome of stainless steel as an emitter — I could stick coins on the wall and they would hold with that thing 20 feet away. (all my vintage memory chips no longer work).
Another possible win: If one turns the current up a bit then there can be active cooling from ionic winds blowing off. Of course, you should be very careful not to touch your face in that mode and there may need to be modulation upon inhale/exhale so that it limits the uptake of ozone. tweeting Musk…
I feel dirty after peeking (It is on Isle five, Michelle–put a rush on that.):
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3865629/posts
Gosh. How Jones got on the Trump Train. The Roger Stone Show… Have not listened since. But Before:
https://youtu (dot) be/Q5JMuOv_Z_I?t=214
She claimed the puppy chunker video was fake.
Obama did a terrible job. There were 17,000 lives lost.
Thx, Obama.
Wakefield has also made an appearance:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8531689/Disgraced-British-doctor-leading-movement-against-covid-vaccine.html
“Speaking in the measured, authoritative tones of an expert, Andrew Wakefield delivered his considered judgment on the coronavirus pandemic.
It was, said the disgraced British former doctor, one big hoax: a cynical plot by pharmaceutical giants — aided by governments, scientists and the media — to force the world to be unnecessarily and dangerously vaccinated.”
Fortunately they included a big fat warning about anything Wakefield says.
“These are terrifyingly gullible times — the perfect environment for Wakefield, who is still shamelessly preaching the same dangerous anti-vaccine message a decade after it was discredited by British medical authorities.”
I always wonder why a “Proportional Response” always seems to converge to “Do Nothing”?
While I understand the argument that naive or ignorant intervention may cause more harm. Dr. Victory and her ilk also oppose any precautionary and protective measures, designed to mitigate and reduce risks. Even with little or no understanding of the disease itself, it is not difficult to conclude that its a good idea to defend ourselves from a potentially fatal contagion we know close to nothing about it. In principle alone this last fact invites even greater caution. Not less.
Also, if they really are interested in “Personal Freedom” and “Individual Liberty”, the thought of the medical surveillance apparatus required for a “Proportional Response” ought to be terrifying!
If Liberty and Care for the well being of others is of such great value, then surely these minor inconveniences are but a meager sacrifice. But alas…
If there is a plague of anything its one of Ignorance, Selfishness, and Hypocrisy.
Two points for all of you arrogant medical professionals who cannot seem to get past the “public health” component to see any other parts of this global elephant.
First, as part of the medical cartel that currently has the entire world forcibly under your command: your messaging stinks. The “science” and advice you’ve dispensed has been contradictory, confusing, and inconsistent from Day 1. Your initial death models were way off. You change your minds constantly on issues of critical importance, such as the effectiveness of masks outside the clinical setting, and whether asymptomatic spread is actually “very rare” (WHO) or “common.” (others, next day). You have given us ZERO reason to trust any of you. Moreover, the fact that you resort to labeling (“anti-vaxxer”), censoring, and character-assassinating any medical professional who dares to offer an alternative view to the contradictory, fear-mongering ones offered by those who hold us captive, rather than engage in thoughtful discussion, shows how little you care about getting to truth. Beda Stadler, John Ioannidis, Scott Atlas, Michael Levitt have all offered reasoned alternative opinions on the science of CV-19 — and the public health measures they believe would better address the health aspects, while not completely destroying our world. Are they all “quacks” too?
Second –while you might (or might not) know how to treat cancer and write blogs excoriating fellow medical professionals just trying to bring some measure of calm and common sense to this crisis, you have very little understanding of who actually rules the world (hint: it is not a benevolent medical cartel). Your support for a technocratic surveillance state, CoVi-passes, mandatory injections of a rushed, DNA-altering vaccine, and the “jailing” of those medical professionals who disagree with you (as one of your readers advocates in the comments! Is this America? Do we not have a First Amendment?) will bring in a totalitarian, dystopian regime we have not seen since WWII – or maybe ever. Perhaps you should keep in mind, as we march towards this dystopia, that the civil liberties you demand we relinquish now in the name of “public health” will not likely be returned, and that tyrants ultimately execute the professional classes too, once they have served their purpose.
“the medical cartel that currently has the entire world forcibly under your command”
How much of the “entire world” can you experience from a basement apartment? (I look out the window.) Nope, no goose stepping doctors in this part of the “entire world”.
<
blockquote> Is this America? Do we not have a First Amendment?) will bring in a totalitarian, dystopian regime we have not seen since WWII – or maybe ever.
Checks Drudge…Yep, Nero Really wants that second term. “I da lau n ordar presnident, Ib I not presnident den dey come for da sunurbs nextr. The beautiful suburbs. Yu butyfal houses with the beautiful lawns and burn it all to the ground…”
https://apnews.com/95ed013d58a00db0d85ddfd14ab51d2c
I won’t argue with that. Checks DMV, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Rekognition, Nest and ClearView police, ICE, and DEA clients, FoxNews,…, the asshole at the vitamin shoppe trying to sign me up for a discount card, the phone company, the cable company, carpet cleaning guys, the USA Patriot Crapct, the NSA, Permanent Record,…,TicTok. — Real ‘muricuns do not give a fuck.
“and that tyrants ultimately execute the professional classes too”
Good. I hate Orkin and SimpleGreen.
as part of the medical cartel that currently has the entire world forcibly under your command: your messaging stinks.
Dude.
Part of the reasons the messaging stink was precisely because the ones in charge are not a “medical cartel”.
In the US, and in various European countries, the politics have been fighting their health advisors and delayed taking preventative measures.
As for the masks, it’s basic CYA. Our countries were low in stock, because stocks cost money (and again, this is against the repeated advice of “the medical cartel” – physicians and scientists have been warning about the risk of a major viral pandemic since at least the 90’s).
So instead of being honest and saying “sorry, not enough for everyone, let’s ration them”, our so-wise authorities went for “oh, you don’t need them anyway”.
Vlad? Vlad, is that you?
Hyperbole does not make for compelling arguments. Especially if you lead with an assertion (“the medical cartel…”) for which you provide no evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your entire posting is a stream of unfounded, hyperbolic nonsense. You’re utterly, ridiculously unserious.
You’re wasting your time talking to these “experts.” It’s crazy how detached from reality they are, and detached from the facts as well. I hope all you “experts” will be first in line to take the vaccines that will soon be coming. In fact, be the human guinea pigs that take it. Please. Please be the first to inject it! You’ll be doing the rest of the world a huge favor 🙂
She is a total joke and backed by the millionaires in this country who are filing bankruptcy and losing their asses because of COVID-19. She doesn’t care if people die! Because she isn’t in the Hospital working with Covid 19 patients. She has 15 years of experience compared to many of our physicians that have way more experience and who are on the front lines. This virus is 6 months old! We don’t know enough about it yet!
In other news …
Mistrust of a Coronavirus Vaccine Could Impact Widespread Immunity by Jan Hoffman, NYT, yesterday
She outlines how misinformation from anti-vaxxers ( compleat with photo of California protestors holding signs well known to us) and how PH is trying to deal with that likely scenario. Don’t call them “anti-vaxxers”: it gets them mad as they spread fear and uncertainty and why it especially affects Black people who already have doubts about governmental interventions and health ( understandable given their history) ** And whose communities are more likely to suffer because of the virus.
Orac’s minions are well acquainted with how anti-vaxxers use the internet ( blogs, boards, videos, comments, social media) to frighten nervous, vulnerable parents about vaccines by telling tales of imagined damage that vaccines inflict which frankly contradict all that research WORLDWIDE enlightens us about them.
Picture if you will an entrenched partisan who spends her day writing incessantly to scare others. rather than advocating for people with autism, volunteering at the local animal shelter or donating clothes and food to worthy charities.. They imagine themselves as saviours of children when they are indeed misinforming parents which could feasibly result in harm
to children or adults who are unvaccinated or immune compromised. They may “Hide in the Herd” but because of their activities to enlarge their numbers, they actually may contribute to changing the equation so that herd immunity can’t be reached at all. This has occurred in pockets of vaccine doubt already.
Beside fear mongering mothers we also have business people who benefit from vaccine doubt because they sell books, films, supplements, diet plans or natural remedies, enriching themselves at the expense of children. These opportunists are working full steam ahead to prepare followers to reject a Covid vaccine.. .
** well known to me because I worked with multicultural clients during the hiv/aids epidemic. Despite being preternaturally white.
There is potentially something else which “could impact widespread immunity”.
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-doctor-reinfected-with-coronavirus-3-months-after-recovering-635550
I’m starting to think of a world where we all walk around with trained T-cell (inhalable?) poppers or maybe even cyber like an insulin pump or the like.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/beyond-antibodies-the-immune-response-to-coronavirus-is-complicated/
@ Denice Walter
“why it especially affects Black people who already have doubts about governmental interventions and health ( understandable given their history) **”
Could you be more explicit about that specific point? This is something I genuinely know little about and on which I’d appreciate being more knowledgeable.
(BTW, if someone knows how to reach Joel and ask him to come back, I’d be grateful.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/08/29/a-surgeon-experimented-on-slave-women-without-anesthesia-now-his-statues-are-under-attack/
search also, racism in health care /systemic
@ F:
Obviously you know that Black people were treated horribly since they were brought against their will to serve as slaves BUT
their worst “memories” are related to medical experimentation that left their illnesses untreated to document their progression ( most infamously, syphilis Tuskegee Institute experiments), included forced sterilisation and other inhumanities.over the years- including by mental hospitals, schools for disabled- as well as institutional racism that leads to neglect and lack of appropriate, modern services. IN general, their health status is, on the average, worse because of other factors like average lower income, living in substandard housing, less access to healthy lifestyles, education and many, many other issues.( See Wikipedia on Tuskegee experiments and Institutional Racism).
Because of this history, some Black people even believed that hiv was engineered to harm them It wasn’t but they were affected worse than whites.
In the era of Covid, Black people are more likely to live in cities, work in service sector jobs, live in more crowded homes and in poverty as well as having more health risks ( like diabetes, high BP, overweight etc) so they get Covid more frequently and die more.( Similarly, Hispanics do worse that whites).
So, of course many are suspicious of SBM.
I also miss Joel. I know he wrote for other blogs so someone may know him well enough to contact him PLEASE.
@ Tim
I was not interested in historical facts, but thanks for the pointers anyway. (Damn paywall for the Washington Post, but never mind…).
I was more interested in contemporary gut feeling of black people when it comes to healthcare. How suspicious are they, in a nutshell. The “how” does not refer to intensity of suspicion, but modalities of suspicion. That’s what I was interested in when I asked my question to Denice Walter.
But thank you anyway for your answer.
Ahh. Modalities. {Comment tree is probably wrong because I’ve got cooldowns on the machine browsers. I can see people have made comments but can’t read them…have to click through the various links at the top to even see them. fucking CF}
“nitric oxide deficiencies” Things that make you go hmmm.
oopsie, sorry I forgot:
https://www.washingtonpost.com./news/retropolis/wp/2017/08/29/a-surgeon-experimented-on-slave-women-without-anesthesia-now-his-statues-are-under-attack/
Idk on how many sites this works on, Wapo and NYT are the only ones I’ve activly tested it on since I rarely see paywalls (yarr); If anyone knows how to bust out WSJ then that would be very… helpifying?
@ F:
Orac has discussed how Black people are especially vulnerable when he looked at how anti-vaxxers court Black communities – like Wakefield/ BIgtree with the VAXXED film ( misrepresenting the Thompson study as showing that Black kids are negatively affected by MMR) and Kennedy in Harlem trying to sway Black leaders so that they could rally their supporters .against vaccines
My own monitoring reveals that woo-meisters target Black people not to trust SBM because of the reality of Tuskegee and slavery and fables about hiv ( PRN) usually this is accompanied by rants involving true details about racial inequalities.
Opportunists know who are prime targets for their BS- protective mothers or disadvantaged minorities.. .
@F, Racism extends to the medical community even today. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/
“Picture if you will an entrenched partisan who spends her day writing incessantly to scare others.”
Wow, when did Rod Serling start posting here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50V3eA2YYFI
@DB – Bravo! I needed a chuckle.
Speaking of Rod Serling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMLWXsV0E-M
Good day.
Actually, I was originally going for more of a Prince vibe but didn’t think that readers would get it immediately.
All you disinformation fans, the wait is almost over. Next month, the third book in the Mikovits/Heckenlively Trilogy of Stupid comes out. Unmask! Unmask!
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Masks-Reasons-Limited/dp/1510764275/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1595253085&refinements=p_27%3AKent+Heckenlively&s=books&sr=1-1
John Oliver tackled conspiracy theories on his latest show ( Sunday) including a focus on Mikovits , “the Mid-Western Diane Keaton” in his parlance. Last Week Tonight video – easy to find. Several celebrities try to enlighten viewers to varying results.
I wonder if Orac’s scathing remarks and SB wisdom have little effect on scoffers, could a shirtless, over-muscled dude succeed?
Thanks, but I generally wear at least a t-shirt.
Make room, make room! I won’t link it, I don’t want to trigger dough.
addendum:
oppsie: sb “don’t want to get a rise from dough”.
Ahh, I did it again. Sorry, what is wrong with me??
Can we please have an end to these stupid videos!? We got along well around here for years with just the occasional one.
If I want shit from youtube I can find it for myself. What I do like to find are new comments by people and they get bounced around and bounced around and bounced around until all of the damned videos have been run down and opened.
If it is germane to the subject, then Imma thinking that you can not. It requires a learning curve, these days. Far greater than a global warming alarmist can muster. YouRube has really let me down. But I intend to ‘shut up a little’ so as not to trigger you further.
{does this count as three in a row… Shit. I’m the bad guy.}
Aaand. Billie Ellish parody I’m the Vlad guy is no longer searchable. No vid for you; I hope you are happy. (also, YR is dead to me now.)
Tim, FUCK YOU!
I’m not “triggered” by your skull turds, I’m just sick of having to wade through the shit you dump to get to comments made by intelligent people with something useful fo contribute.
Did I say FUCK YOU!
Well, just in case I forgot, FUCK YOU!
I accept. But it will be live streamed and there will be safe words like “sea level rise, daddy, sea level rise”.
@ doug
“I’m not “triggered” by your skull turds, I’m just sick of having to wade through the shit you dump to get to comments made by intelligent people with something useful fo contribute.”
He did say that he’d tone down. If you have any better way to make it clear that making efforts to be civilized by taking criticism into account is a worthless idea, please let me know.
Tim should have known better than trying to be accommodating: he should have said “OK, I tone down”, so that he could not stand accused of not being sensible, and simultaneously should have told you to grow a thicker skin. As things stand, he moderately backed down; and it backfired on him… The proof of which is in the pudding.
Now he’ll know it’s a mistake to try to be accommodating.
BTW, I’m likely the one that has been abusing YouTube videos in the first place. Did try to make some points with them at times, though. I therefore also decide to limit my use of them, to take your wishes into account. Not because I try to be accommodating; but because being lavishly civilized to the point of servility and on the brink of hypocrisy is my sovereign decision, and one that can be revoked on a whim at any point in time. Modulo our host’s policy and wishes on the matter, who evidently has the final say.
@doug
I’ve now tested this with no yourube video thumbnails and it still does the “bounced around and bounced around and bounced around”
You need to block the gravatar scripting — the user thumnails even if null — such as with Umatrix and that seems to help
https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix
also, {never mind, Imma going to take the high road here (not really)} I thought we had a dinner date to fuck or something — you were very adamant about it; to the point of being a creeper??
^^
I refer, of course, to the crap Tim dumps, not the videos in Orac’s posts.
Yeah, maybe Tim could dial it back some.
More than three posts in a row also seems a bit excessive.
Hey, one of those was an addendum! But I know what doug is talking about with the loading of the thumbnails — that can be fixed by adding the t=(anything) to the end of the link. I’ll try to keep that in mind. Also, on long comment threads, Orac may bypass the plugin that generates the images.
Some new treatment for the worst Covid-19 cases?
https://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/20/annrheumdis-2020-218479
It is presented as a kind of game-changer in the Dutch news.
Reading medical English is not my strong force, so it is hard to say something about it. Besides I don’t have any medical education.
I’ve been trying to goad Pathcoin/..(1) to address this. He was on about that pathway months ago. It seems to be a compentent orator, but,alas, clinically retarded or, at least, it is demonstating a kind of dementia.
Why should I believed you over her? Quite honestly, I believe that everything she claims makes complete and total sense. If it turns out that she was right and you were wrong, will you come on here and apologize for your comments? Will you contact her directly to apologize? I doubt you will do either.
She’s not right and I’m not wrong.
Of course he won’t. Orac is hiding because about what he says because he doesn’t want any responsibility when calling these people out. It’s the I hidden in my parents basement, but I’m still an invisible badass on the keyboard.
His identity is the worst kept secret on teh interwebs. Knowing it is an intelligence test, and it seems you failed.
Yep. You don’t even have to leave this page to discover it!
Is it just me, or do “Ben” and “SIT” share some compositional similarities?
Right. And if you tell me that you’re 8 feet tall and she’s 2 feet tall, should I believe that too? If you know so much, how come you’re not invited onto shows to speak and you’re limited to this blog that is something you set up and pay for all on your own. Who sponsors you? What’s your CV? My opinion is you’re probably just another doctor with a God complex. she’s not right and I’m not wrong, what an arrogant statement. She’s not right and I’m not wrong, what an arrogant statement. Excuse me while I gag now.
Have you read the detailed rebuttal of her specific claims in the post? Are there any errors you see?
If not, you should believe Orac because his post is accurate and referenced, and shows that Dr. Victory’s claims are inaccurate.
Content matters.
My guess is that Ben didn’t even bother to read beyond the title and the first couple of sentences, if that.
Did you even actually READ the post? Seriously? I backed up all of my criticisms.
Your guess is. Not surprising that you were just making guesses. Of course I read the whole damn thing. But because I don’t buy into your theories, you guess I didn’t read it. Maybe you should start coming up with reality and facts instead of just guessing. It is not lost on me that you failed to provide your CV. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them, some just stink more than others. It’s getting rather smelly in here so I think I’m going to leave. Y’all can stay here and enjoy your own stench.
I think we got the impression you did not read from the fact that you pointed to no errors and provided no substantive criticism. You gave no reason for rejecting his reasoned analysis.
@ Ben
“Of course I read the whole damn thing. But because I don’t buy into your theories, you guess I didn’t read it.”
Well, you made no comment regarding the content of this blog. Now, you may well not “buy into” theories, but we have no clue what your opinion really is on the matter. And no clue what the main points you may have against the post’s content. So, OK, you’re not happy, but we have no statements from you that would allow us to engage in a discussion with you…
“Maybe you should start coming up with reality and facts instead of just guessing.”
Oh! He did! Didn’t you notice?
“It is not lost on me that you failed to provide your CV.”
You may want to start here. Orac is under no obligation to Waste Time With Wankers who are unable to make a basic web search to answer such a trivial question…
“Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them, some just stink more than others. It’s getting rather smelly in here so I think I’m going to leave. Y’all can stay here and enjoy your own stench.”
Bitchy, aren’t you?
Classic.
[…] disease experts, and can science better than the true experts? Other examples have included Dr. Kelly Victory, who’s been claiming that masks don’t work, and Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, […]
So the fact that you are an oncologist/surgeon automatically means that whatever you say medically is correct and any other Dr with a different opinion is wrong. Your rebuttal to Dr Victory sounded like it came from a typical surgeon with a god complex. Have you treated any covid patients?
@ Caro
“Your rebuttal to Dr Victory sounded like it came from a typical surgeon with a god complex.”
And I always thought God had a Surgeon Complex… Sheesh!…
“Have you treated any covid patients?”
Did you ever teach English in school? No? Flabbergasting that you do manage to line up words…
Say, Caro, are you by any chance related to Ben?
@ Caro:
Dear One, Orac is not automatically correct because he is an oncologist/ surgeon BUT because he provides peer reviewed, controlled, science-based studies that illustrate what he says, Every article explains why he supports what he does and usually links to research or previous explanations which include links to studies.
IN fact, you don’t have to be a doctor/ surgeon/ professor to be correct IF you can provide
DATA: research studies that were done correctly: anyone can BUT.
Here’s the problem- although it is NOT insurmountable:
most adults, unless they are educated and trained in medical or other research, don’t know when something is done wrong ; modern life science is incredibly technical and statistical methods/ research design are not something you pick up by watching a few You Tube videos.
There is also consensus amongst experts ( which is not always cut and dry but developing)..You can’t achieve this depth by flitting around the internet reading brave mavericks; A single study, poorly done, can’t be used to disqualify the bulk of research.
( see Wakefield)
Alt med “experts” and anti-vaccine activists like to pretend that anyone can be a critic of
medicine, psychology or general science: this is merely to support their own shaky positions, to create a cadre of the like-minded. They simplify physiological systems and then posit a cause and a cure, based on their own insufficient knowledge. You can gauge how much they understand by their models’ complexity
–: some believe that cancer is caused purely by a bad diet- a lack of anti-oxidants or other nutrients yet science based models will present ( often graphically) a convoluted pathway of multiple biological actions- including the influence of genes- that may lead to cancer ( there are very complex images shown on this very blog)
— similarly, anti-vaxxers posit that vaccines given at age one-two cause autism HOWEVER physiological and developmental research shows how genetic influences interact with prenatal/ perinatal events leading to events in the brain that are called autism. There are multiple lines of research that show how this happens and how it can be detected before that age and which researchers lead the way BUT anti-vax proselytisers LEAVE ALL OF THEM OUT. They are inconvenient for their belief system .In addition, long-term studies involving huge numbers of subjects show no link to autism, done in many different countries.
So anyone can learn SB scepticism but it takes study and guidance usually from people who have studied the field in depth and learning about how consensus comes about. You can’t choose which parts of research you like and ignore others. Also having a degree or several doesn’t insulate you from criticism as many alt med doctors and researchers have shown. It’s about the data not the person. . .
Lots of BS here. As a physician you don’t write like you are in the trenches with patients. Any casual observer can connect the dots on autism connected with vaccines. Playing the research card well then how about psychiatric
drugs all 5 classes they are prescribed and taken like candy with NO research to back them yet billions of dollars are made yearly on these damaging drugs. I am a physician and the attitude and approach sounds high and mighty but you are not getting people well with this approach. As you know modern medicine is great for emergencies but you don’t FIX or greatly improve the chronic conditions or improve them with the allopathic approach.
A. I know quite a few practicing physicians. They don’t subscribe to the myth that vaccines cause autism, because extensive data shows that they don’t.
B. None of them would use the term “allopathic medicine, either. That’s usually used by people who reject science based medicine going in,
C. Modern medicine is why people with chronic conditions like type I diabetes can live a full productive life. It direct have the answers to everything, but that’s mostly because it’s unwilling to make up fake answers. It’s not perfect, but it’s much better than existing alternatives, most of which are, well, fake.
There is a cure, look up Americas Front Line Doctors on bitchute.com or brighteon.com or banned.video
@Mike, it has been confirmed that autism is genetic in origin. So unless you can show us some hitherto unknown gene splicing technology, GTFOOHWYBS.
@David Jantz Where did you get the idea that there is no research on psychopharmaceuticals ? Some actual research about Ritalin is here:
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2002/21-284_Ritalin.cfm
A real doctor should know about FDA drug approval process.
[…] From Respectful Insolence: Dr. Kelly Victory: Another despicable physician spreading disinformation about COVID-19 […]
Wow someone has spent a lot of time claiming Dr. Kelly Victory is a quack while simultaneously displaying Victory’s common sense thinking and measured opinions. The author and editor of this garbage should be ashamed.
Please post the errors made and provide the PubMed indexed studies to support your answers.
Here are two statements that you need to support:
“For example, Dr. Victory notes that “most mutations” in viruses end up making the virus weaker or less lethal.”
“Dr. Victory also claims that the virus can’t survive outside the body for more than a few minutes if the temperature is more than 70° F and “certainly not when the temperatures are in the mid-80s or higher.” ”
Just prove Dr. Victory right with verifiable scientific documentation.
What’s scary is I have heard both of these assertions on an almost daily basis from physicians of all stripes. I have no idea how these got started but they are deeply ingrained.
There is lots of confirmation bias, often influenced by political bias.
Let me add: there is also motivated reasoning.
You are a guy who learned to parrot enough info to get a piece of paper from institutions funded by Pharma. Congrats on being able to memorize enough to look up symptoms to have their playbook tell you which of their products to promote to your (mostly) mindless patients, while you PRACTICE. You, like most doctors, know jack-shit about health. You are only protecting your spot at the financial trough. You can’t even admit viruses have never been proven to exist, you hack.
Some universities are funded by states. I actually do not remember one that is funded by big pharma, correct me if I am wrong. (Big pharma do not like basic research, because competitors can share the results.)
Every profession requires in job training, parroting things you learned at university wont do.
Why do you think that patients are mindless ? I obviously do not take drug if it does not work. Doctors would ask same thing, of course.
There is electron microscopes now. with them you can photograph viruses. Tobacco mosaic virus was crystallized before WWII.
Quacks of course charge a lot. And if their cure do not work, they claim the victim. Some victims have thankfully filed a lawsuit.
@ Arno:
So many of the alt med proselytisers ( and rightists) I survey scoff at university education and often advocate solely for vocational and technical training**.
Because they have never been there and know not what they speak of.
They have a misguided and unrealistic idea of what universities provide: med school and any sanctioned degree are not dependent purely on memory: rote learning is only a first step in acquiring information to work with.
Particular foci of study require specific skills which can be measured involving quantitative and reasoning but they are not the only abilities because language and critical thinking are necessary as well. Learning how to understand reliable sources may often be taught in non-science courses, like English or journalism I was lucky to be able to study intensely in both sides of the coin- arts and science.
If what Orac does were purely rote learning, twelve years olds could do it..
** HOWEVER they try, in vain, to mime educated people by stringing together Big Words leading to Big Ideas to impress their followers, ( see Natural News, PRN,etc). .
I have a good friend that is a longtime DO curing people of many things considered incurable by mainstream medical. His opinion on vaccines is they are a scam and dangerous. His opinion on mask use for covid, useless and only promoting fear. His opinion on covid itself, it’s real, the numbers are grossly inflated and it is curable via hydroxychloroquine, zinc and antibiotics however the fact that the cure is being suppressed is tantamount to murder.
It sounds like your friend subscribes to many types of pseudoscience routinely debunked on this blog. Maybe you should recommend he reads the blog to avoid such errors going forward.
Considering another post by Mike, either Mike’s friend is actually Mike, or they share the same ideas.
Even if you believe everything a government, non-governmental organization (NGO) or a corporate medical or pharmaceutical company tells you that they want to “save lives” and “prevent illness”, you are being LIED to about this covid-19 case fatality rate. Back in January 2020 the perfect control study was presented in the Princess Cruise Ship where 3700 elderly, many with co-morbid health risk conditions were quarantined on a self contained ship. The air was circulated within, no one wore masks, they ate at common food areas with minimal social distancing. FOURTEEN DIED. That is a case fatality rate of 14/3700 or 0.00378378378% YET, we continue to go forward in FEAR, wearing masks that DO NOT STOP VIRUSES, which are 125 nm or 0.06 microns to .14 microns. A N-95 mask filters only down to .3 microns. The economic and psychological loss globally is causing 10,000 child starvations PER DAY. Millions unemployed and 100’s of thousands of small businesses destroyed. FOR WHAT? SAFETY? SECURITY? As Benjamin Franklin said ” Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess
0.003 X 300000000 = 900000. Quite many people, even though not everybody got the virus in your example.
Masks stop droplets, and viruses are inside the droplets.
How many people you want to die ?
Why should we care about your wall of text rant?
Death is not the only measure, there is also permanent injury to lungs, hearts, etc. Some people have lost limbs due to clots. the virus you breathe out is encapsulated in droplets that are filtered out, even with homemade fabric masks.
Grow up. Denial can be deadly.
Here is the USA compared to the rest of world:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=USA~OWID_WRL®ion=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths_per_million&pickerSort=desc
Wohowo! France is making a comeback!
Ya’ll got some weird damn porn. Not judging.
I mean, case in point. This is the sickest shit I have ever screened in my life:
@Joe
Actually, 14/3700 gives 0.00378378378, period. Or, in percent, 0.378%.
In the discussions I have seen since February, the ballpark is between an optimistic 0.1% and a pessimistic 3%. With 0.3 to 1% being presented as more likely.
Damn officials. Lying to us by telling us the truth.
Look up some virology, smart guy. I’m tired of telling people that viruses – especially enveloped viruses like the corona’ – need to travel inside biological droplets, or they lose they capacity to infect people.
Most bacteria are not much different, actually. Either biological droplets or fomites (dust particles, to put it simply)
Masks will definitively stop these, as these droplets are a lot, lot bigger. At least on the way out, so you won’t give your germs to others.
Not according to your own CDC study it doesn’t especially if almost 75% in both case studies of those who wore them almost all the time https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm
Sigh. How many of those 3700 people were confirmed to have contracted the virus by biochemical labs? How do you control for confounders in this group of certainly-not homogeneous people? What interventions were tried? On whom? How soon? In all cases? Which comorbidities? How were those stratified? Who serves as the controls? The staff? And on, and on, and on…
“WAKE UP!!” indeed…
I will presume you mean that the infection was confirmed by a lab test, not that a lab caused them to contract the virus.
This reference states that 634 out of 3063 tested positive.
https://www.cebm.net/study/asymptomatic-covid-19-cases-on-board-the-diamond-princess-cruise-ship/
Another later reference cites 712 out of 3711 passengers and crew who were “infected”. Given the circumstances and high visibility of this incident, it is quite probable that all of those cases were lab confirmed. It also notes a Case Fatality Rate of 1.8%. Due to quarantine and use of masks, not all passengers or crew were infected.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jgf2.326
When you add in people who were infected but never developed clinical symptoms, the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) will of course be lower.
This study from Geneva, Switzerland gave an IFR of 0.68%.
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30584-3.pdf
In any case SARS-CoV-2 is much more dangerous than influenza. We don’t have an effective and safe vaccine yet. And it remains to be seen whether that vaccine will kill the virus like the oral polio vaccine or just prevent disease like the injected polio vaccine.
But if you really wanted to find out this information, you would be reviewing the many research articles published each month instead of dropping comments on a 12 week old blog article.
What a load of shit, but I guess no war is without it’s counter propaganda! First off the CDC did just come out with a report that showed those who always wore masks or almost always did still get infected. Almost 75% is what it said. That means if you try to claim it’s mandated so others wont catch it, your full of shit! For if that was true then why are almost 75% who wore almost all the time or did wear them all time less people would be catching it so you can’t hide behind that garbage. For on the other end of the spectrum only 3.9% of those who said they never wore the damned things or only rarely did caught it, so you’re not protecting them for they aren’t catching it. Your transferring it to people who like yourselves are wearing the damned things so piss off with that crap you spew. And your Bullshit that Asymmetric people are the ones spreading the disease? Bullshit! The WHO in May or early June said the virus was only rarely passed on, but let me guess your comeback will be “They walked that back recently” Well yeah duh people like myself are out here not just taking your or their word over all this we’re actually doing some research into it, But yeah duh they would you can’t have that little tidbit going out uncontested now can ya!!! LOL ass hat or hats People may not be scientists as you all claim to be, but we do have at least some knowledge on this and most of us do have some college under our belt even though were too stupid to know better according to most of you that is…
If as one video I saw on the WHO walking that tidbit back is true as they said, about it was only in some small case studies then it’s more than likely true, but then again China owns them so they have to at least make an attempt to walk it back. You had just Barely months before this crap started, your damned little event 2.0 and in that from what I saw it talked about doing just what you’re doing here but calling what is more likely the truth misinformation, so when someone comes along to go against your narrative you take them on!
For one it is true this crap is less deadly than the flu and or H1N1 for that matter and we didn’t go bat shit crazy then and that passed without one mandate or some experimental vaccine coming out. But it is because for one you have or the WHO or CDC has grouped all people together to come up with such high numbers. IF one during this time died of a car accident, but god forbid they had the Covid19, that’s what was said to have killed them not the car accident. You can’t call a case a case until they at least show some kind of symptoms until then it’s only a positive result and should not be counted as a case. so subtract those numbers. Then subtract the ones who only have light to moderate symptoms then you might have the correct numbers.
I didn’t read the whole article for I found too much BS in the first parts so I couldn’t.
But at least I found a site I could comment on about the CDC’s findings, that the site was more than likely a leftist site at least and give you back you BS! YES it does mean that if almost 75% of the people are still contracting the disease who wear masks as USA today tried to say by Saying NO the CDC didn’t say that wearing masks was ineffectual.SO YES YES it does mean that!!!
And this POS crap about how RNA can’t do as some have said it can yes it can and yes it most certainly will. I bet that since you can’t come back at me with anything on the facts I have used I bet the only thing you will or anyone on here if they try to come back on me at is my punctuation or language well Piss off!!!
For i read some place a while back that just because someone uses bad language doesn’t mean their not that smart. Nor does not using correct punctuation or grammar. For commas were always a hang up of mine and as far as Grammar Goes if I tried hard enough I could have done better for I used to get A’s in my classes online when I did IT.
This circle of leftists can feel warm and fuzzy all they want and think that most people who refute what they say is nothing more than trailer trash so we don’t matter or count. But I have personally knowledge that the more BS you spew the more people will believe it for it sounds good to them,even if they know better they follow out of fear or lack of knowledge. Hitler said the bigger the lie the more people will believe it and what you spew here is about the same kind of garbage he used to gain power. Plus you can use the Govt wont do this or the Govt wont do that all you want. Of course they probably wont but the state Govt’s will, and or the private sector will more than likely. So yeah BS to all your so called attempt at debunking I wont let you!
No, that’s not what the CDC study said. If it was not clear enough for you from reading this article, maybe this article – cited by Orac – will help.
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2020/10/16/no-the-cdc-didnt-report-that-masks-are-ineffective-against-covid-19/comment-page-1/#comment-288949
You’re also not well placed to argue holocaust history with our host, who cut his skeptical teeth rebutting holocaust denial.
OK here is the link from their own website:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm
And if you scroll all the way to the bottom where the graph is it says that 70.6% of the case studies who always wore masks still contacted it, and of the control participants 74.2% who wore them always still caught it.
That’s what is needed when people say they are ineffective and the science proves it from their own site. That does so mean people who always wore them and still caught the disease mean it’s not effective in preventing it.
You can use you’re not well places language all you want with me, that still doesn’t mean I am wrong. You’re lying through your teeth and this isn’t the only other thing you’ve lied to people about and I’ve also researched that too, and I have personal experience with some of the other items you or even the right has used to gain control over the masses. Hitler came to power using these same lies you spew, not viruses but he told the people that Jews were bad and then went so far as to use his henchmen to do things and then blame the Jews.
So yeah, no, this isn’t holocaust denial it’s trying to prevent another holocaust, or at least not let you do me in your depopulation attempts.
I’ve barely ever worn one of those damned things and haven’t had any kind of symptoms, plus I already have cancer and one of the vulnerable, but I believe in living my life as I would if this didn’t exist, meaning I know it’s there but expect even if I did catch it it would only lightly infect me or moderately. I refuse to live in fear!
Legit research with an analytical mind along with critical thinking, along with life experiences of seeing people say, and do things and yet get people to believe in it has also helped me to not just fall for everything people say.
I’ve personally seen lies run this country into a shit hole from both sides the left and right to serve me the rest of what life i may have.
I do support some left things when It matches what I believe and the same with the right but neither side is going to save me or this country they’ve destroyed it already.
“Asymmetric people”
Yeah, those weird me out also. But the thing with masks is that everybody needs to wear them because it needs to catch the droplets before they spray out, dry out, and get aerosolised. One chin diaper and that spittle dries out, gets smaller, and floats through another’s mask. you people are using your irresponsibilaty to say how masks don’t work. You are actively making it not work. You Chin Diaper.
As per the author ” creationist “. Hence the true battle ground then.
Maybe she knows how to deal with mass casualties from natural disasters or mass shootings, but she sure as hell doesn’t know how to deal with coronavirus.
Really? Why? because you say so?? My guess is she knows more than you do.
Lets clear the air a bit. Yes! RNA lasts for a short time, but breaks back down into it’s original components that DNA used to create the RNA to begin with. RNA uses DNA as it’s blue print to begin with. I care less if someone says it can’t or hasn’t or wont. The Chemicals used to modify the RNA to begin with, once the RNA breaks back down those chemicals will or can still be picked up by the DNA, and then when it goes to make a new RNA strand the code in the DNA very much could have been altered at that point and the blueprint the new RNA will use for it’s work will be altered. Effectively changing a human into a hybrid of some kind. RNA does lots of work and some or parts of the strand may not even be used for coding etc… but TRNA or Transfer RNA helps connect to proteins and other amino acids it needs for the cell to keep going. Reverse transcription is possible, plus RNA can make DNA. meaning it can make itself into DNA.
Plus… if Bill Gates is vested heavily into Vaccines and the Covid19 one then why would he not want to patent it?
In the 70’s I believe but may have been sooner or later on but it’s a known strategy of those who aim to control, namely the progressives and others, to use the words conspiracy theories. I can’t remember the link or story and or the Group, or groups involved but it’s Govt and or Private sector based.
I think one was the Southern Poverty Law center and or the CIA etc… That’s part of their play book to quell dissension to their agenda. Just call it a conspiracy theory that works… Not any more people know!
But yes it is very plausible for what ever they use in who’s ever Vaccine IE: Moderna, Pfizer, Astrazeneca, Johnson and Johnson, or whoever can and will change your DNA.
Astrazeneca and the MSM wont tell you why, they will say it was just some Neurological damage, but the reason they shut down was because one of the victims that they shot their crap into , began saying They Killed God, I can’t feel God anymore, my soul is dead. I’m sorry but saying such things is not Neurological that’s spiritual. And he or she maybe screwed…
Are you like a crazy person?? furiously rubbing my dick
*I adore crazy persons.
NO! you’re dick is the size of a RNA molecule so it can’t be me. You’re the can’t fix stupid though.
I’m so hot right now. Using this anhydrous glycrine.. wanna take a ride??
Hey so now that we know Dr.Victory is pretty much correct on everything how about a correction to this garbage you assholes wtf?
Oh, really? That must be why we have 100K hospitalized with COVID-19 and 3K/day deaths from it.???♂️
If herd immunity is non-sense and allowing populations exposure to the ccp virus mask-free isn’t a legit strategy, allowing the immune system unabated to do what it does, then what did the Berkley study of 1920 show us? San Fran had mandatory mask wearing “laws”, really color of law edict, but I digress, compared to Boston that did not post-1918 Spanish flu outbreak. The 1920 study showed a correlation that the population in Boston not wearing masks, the flu was shorter, killed less and rebounded quicker in Boston than San Fran which carried on longer, and more died.
Optimize your immune system, isolate and protect those at risk and get on with life, learn how to accept death, we have a problem in this country and fear is at the head of the table.
I got experimented on with the anthrax vaccine in 2002, and despite a federal judge order to cease and desist giving the experimental anthrax vaccine to military, the military kept giving it anyway, and I and many others in the military I served with had severe reactions. Although, I cant verify, estimates that state long-term the anthrax vaccines lead to over 100,000 soldiers with vaccine damage, 11,000 died of causes related to the anthrax vaccine. Ive also had other exposures that lead to me any others that deployed to particular location getting cancer and a multitude of thyroid diseases. So, no thanks. Ill pass, its my informed consent. Ask for an insert and read it, then decide. As for me, Im good. Already had the wuflu, was sick for a day, slept, sweated it out, drank fluids, pumped up my C, and D2 with zinc and quinine, was fine the next day. At worst the IFR was .3%, now its even less. all this for an IFR that is same as flu? Simply doesn’t make sense, unless there is an agenda behind all of it, which obviously there is.
Why hasnt the total overall death numbers changed, despite adding like what 300,000 deaths due to wuflu this year? What happened to flu deaths this year, heart disease, etc…Why isn’t anyone this reactionary over tuberculosis deaths ranging in the 250k-350k a year? Why did the CDC even post months ago the actually number of dead from covid vs with covid was only 6%? So 6% of 300,000 is 18k, looks like the common cold numbers deaths per year. The PCR test is a scam, even the inventor of it called dr Faustus a fraud and a liar. The pcr test was not intended to be used to identify the ccp virus. When the pcr is run at 30-40 cycles everything shows remnants of dna which they list as ccp virus positive. This whole scam is cover for action for control, profit and an economic reset. Convince me that this isn’t happening, then talk to me about fraud and lies.
Wear your mask or like the nazis said, “just get on the train”. Ive read over 20 peer reviewed studies on masks with regard to flu and the latest Danish study with CCP virus. All showed there is no appreciable efficacy in wearing them vs not wearing them. You want to talk benefits but never risks. Well they say if they didn’t work why are they used in hospitals! That is specific, situational with proper handling and decontamination procedures are followed, and it is done for purposes of mostly not spreading bacteria during surgery or close patient care to vulnerable patients or wounds. The masks have risks, like wearing them too long the material breaks down, teflon emanates from the material, wearing too long can increase chance of bacterial infections to the wearer, or low oxygen, high co2 causing headaches and acidosis in the blood which leads to disease. Not to mention the social effects of constant mask wearing even outdoors which beyond ridiculous, and while alone in your car, where 80-90% of communication is non-verbal. I used to teach reading body language and facial action coding. I refuse to talk to anyone wearing a mask.
Wake up folks. Dont blind me with science, join me with commonsense, discernment and critical thinking.
[…] know, but there you go. Then there’s Dr. Kelly Victory, an ER doctor who’s a veritable cornucopia of COVID-19 conspiracy theories and disinformation. The list goes on and […]