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Oblivion Agenda: Mike Adams’ COVID-19-inspired update to his alien vaccine holocaust conspiracy theory

There’s nothing new under the sun in conspiracy theories. That’s why Mike Adams “Oblivion Agenda” is just an antivaccine “depopulation” conspiracy theory updated for the era of COVID-19.

I’ve been writing about conspiracy theories over 20 years now. Indeed, my entry into skepticism and science-based medicine came in response to one of the most despicable conspiracy theories in existence, Holocaust denial. At the time, that conspiracy theory seemed on its face ridiculous enough to me, but, as I quickly learned as the 1990s drew to a close, it was held by a disturbing number of people, mostly in the support of admiration of Hitler and even outright fascism. Also, in the course of a few short years, deconstructing Holocaust denial led me to develop many of the skills that enabled me to start tackling alternative medicine and the antivaccine movement. Not long after, I witnessed for my first time the birth of a conspiracy theory, “9/11 Truth,” the conspiracy theory that it wasn’t jetliners that brought down the towers and that the attack was an “inside job,” in response to the World Trade Center attacks on September 11, 2001. This conspiracy theory was soon followed by others, such as the anti-CDC Simpsonwood conspiracy theory first popularized by antivax leader Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in 2005 and the “CDC whistleblower” antivaccine conspiracy theory in 2014, which later led to Del Bigtree and Andrew Wakefield’s antivaccine propaganda movie disguised as a documentary, VAXXED. As a result of these experiences, I remain a bit of a connoisseur of conspiracy theories, the more ridiculous and outrageous the better, for the simple reason that nearly all science denialism, be it alternative medicine, the antivaccine movement, climate science “skepticism” (i.e., denial), “9/11 Truth,” Holocaust denial, creationism, or others, has at its heart one or more conspiracy theories. Little did I know that, two decades later, knowledge of conspiracy theories, how they originate, and how they spread would be so essential, which leads me to Mike Adams’ “Oblivion Agenda.”

Before I get to “Oblivion Agenda,” I can’t help but note that little could I have predicted in 2001 that in 2020, the conspiracy theory in widest circulation would make Holocaust denial and “9/11 Truth” seem incredibly quaint and tame by comparison. Heck, even four years ago, when Donald Trump was first elected President, I could not have imagined that by 2020 there would be a conspiracy theory about him supposedly battling a “deep state” conspiracy of Satan-worshiping cannibalistic pedophiles who use the blood of children to harvest adenochrome, a relatively inexpensive chemical that forms from the oxidation of epinephrine (formerly called adrenaline). Yes, I’m referring to “QAnon.” Of course, I should have recognized that QAnon is not a new conspiracy theory, but rather a reimagining of the “Blood Libel” against Jews (the conspiracy theory that Jews engaged in the ritualistic murder of gentile children and used their blood to make their Passover matzah) for the Trump era with a dash of Satanic panic, a conspiracy theory against Jews that’s popped up throughout history dating back to at least the 1100s, the most recent variant of which before QAnon reared its ugly head in the 1980s. If you really want to get an idea how utterly bonkers QAnon can get, then read this article:

The highest-profile adrenochrome incident took place in 2018, when Google CEO Sundar Pichai was questioned by the House Judiciary Committee about a conspiracy called “Frazzledrip.” (“Heard of Frazzledrip?” reads one comment on The Sisters of Mercy song.) The crackpot theory involved a mythical video, supposedly squirreled away on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, that if leaked, would show Hillary Clinton and her one-time aide Huma Abedin performing a satanic sacrifice in which they slurped a child’s blood while wearing masks carved from the skin of her face.

Code-named “Frazzledrip,” the video was supposed to depict an adrenochrome “harvest.” It never materialized. But the drug has since become a common reference in conspiracies of the far right. In the past year, the compound has been name-checked by German soul singer Xavier Naidoo, right-wing evangelical and failed congressional candidate Dave Daubenmire, and ex-tabloid writer-turned-QAnon conspiracy theorist Liz Crokin.

Again, even just a few years ago, I would never believed that such a conspiracy theory could achieve such prominence, even leading to a political movement, with 24 of its believers running for Congress and thvery likely election of at least one. So, as a connoisseur of conspiracy theories, I wondered if anything could get any weirder. Now, you might question whether it’s appropriate to make fun of conspiracy theories like QAnon, given their malign influence on society, but I argue that it’s useful to compare and contrast conspiracy theories in order to look at elements common to them, elements that make even the most ridiculous conspiracy theory seem credible to a large number of people. In particular, I’m interested in antivax conspiracy theories, and how they’ve led to a confluence between the antivaccine movement, COVID-19 pandemic conspiracy theories claiming that the pandemic is really a “plandemic” created by shadowy elites (for what purpose, it’s never quite clear), and, yes, QAnon. A little over a year ago, I thought I’d found that theory, when Mike Adams (who else?) published a conspiracy theory about the “vaccine holocaust,” featuring people dropping dead in the streets like scenes from the Charlton Heston 1970s post-apocalypse movie The Omega Man. (Only this time, people are dying of a bioengineered vaccine instead of a new biological warfare agent.) It also features the global elites behind the mass death consorting with aliens—yes, aliens!—to bring about the “depopulation” of the earth through vaccines. This conspiracy theory, it should be noted, dates back to a few months before the COVID-19 pandemic started to make itself known in Wuhan, China. So why revisit Mike Adams? He is, after all, an über-crank, an all-purpose conspiracy theorist. The reason is that I was interested in how his wacky conspiracy theory “Oblivion Agenda” would “evolve” under the “selective pressure” of the COVID-19 pandemic. And evolve “Oblivion Agenda” has, but perhaps not as much as I would have expected.

Oblivion Agenda

Unsuprisingly, Adams has retconned “Oblivion Agenda,” releasing a video of a talk he did a year ago and representing last year’s version of “Oblivion Agenda,” a.k.a. his “alien vaccine Holocaust” conspiracy theory, as a prediction of the COVID-19 pandemic, saying that “COVID-19 isn’t a pandemic plan, it’s an EXTERMINATION plan for humanity“:

About a year ago, I gave a live presentation in Branson, Missouri, that is only now being made fully public. The presentation, shown below via Brighteon.com, reveals that the real master plan which led to COVID is actually an extermination plan for humanity.

Population reduction has been the goal all along. But where the globalists have shown their true evil genius is in their choice of creating a biological weapon with high transmission rather than high fatality rates. The virus was never very deadly to people under the age of 50, but it was always highly contagious to people of all ages. And that contagiousness, it turns out, was enough to advance their nefarious plan against humanity.

See? Adams was right about everything other than the cause of the “holocaust”! it wasn’t a “bioengineered vaccine.” No! He’s retconning “Oblivion Agenda” to claim that what he predicted all along is coming to pass, except for the little bit about the pandemic. I mean, behold the evil genius:

The rapid spread of the virus allowed the globalist-controlled media to claim “cases” were skyrocketing, thereby justifying weaponized lockdowns and a global rolling out of medical fascism disguised as “public health” policies. Based entirely on the speed of the spread of the virus, cities, states and nations of the world were able to achieve three key goals that represent the necessary precursors to global human extermination:
  1. Crushing the existing human economies of the world, including food production, ultimately leading to mass famine, homelessness and total dependence on government.
  2. Rolling out new, Orwellian medical fascism laws and edicts that set the precedent for mass arrests and forced relocation into “quarantine camps” for those who resist. These camps, of course, are actually death camps and processing facilities for eliminating human beings.
  3. Forcing compliance with global vaccine mandates which will of course be used to achieve global infertility and accelerated deaths from diseases and subsequent infections. Whereas a pathogen could not achieve a 90% death rate on its own, the engineered pathogen (the Wuhan coronavirus) was able to be used to drive people into mass vaccine compliance, during which they can be directly injected with toxic substances, vaccine compliance tracking nanotech (quantum dots) and biology-altering mRNA sequences that literally hijack the body’s cells and reprogram them to produce whatever protein sequences are engineered into the mRNA vaccines.
Thus, globalists have simultaneously built a global pandemic prison camp combined with a mandatory vaccine obedience system through which they can repeatedly spread more infectious disease and promote accelerated deaths or infertility.

See what I mean? With no evidence of a mass push for vaccination of all people, including adults, rather than just the pathetic expansion of school vaccine mandates in the US anywhere to be seen, suddenly, to Adams’ delight given that it allowed him to save his “Oblivion Agenda,” the COVID-19 pandemic came along. Because SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, demonstrates high transmissibility but relatively low overall mortality (albeit higher mortality among the elderly and those with medical comorbidities and still high enough overall to cause 220K deaths in the US and millions worldwide and counting). But, clever conspiracy theorist that he is, Adams easily incorporates elements of the “plandemicconspiracy theory into his updated “Oblivion Agenda,” turning COVID-19 into the tool that these evil global elites will need and use to force everyone to be vaccinated with their “bioweapon.”

In his original version of the “Oblivion Agenda,” Adams claimed that, as a prelude to the vaccine holocaust, there would be controlled outbreaks, releases of bioengineered viruses, citing the Disneyland measles outbreak of 2015 as a test run designed to prod lawmakers to pass laws to require vaccines. (It didn’t work very well, given that only a handful of states did so and that it took years.) The idea is that this will be repeated worldwide, and everyone will be required to be vaccinated, except that (of course) “globalists” will be given something that gives them immunity to what’s in the required vaccines. At the time, I said that I…had…questions. For instance, I asked, did Adams really think a scheme like this, even if it were scientifically possible, could be kept secret for long? What about individuals high up enough in the nefarious conspiracy food chain to be given the antidote to the “vaccine bioweapon” (his original version included an “antidote” for those in the conspiracy’s leadership) who have family and friends who aren’t high enough up the food chain to get the antidote? Did anyone really think that each and every one of these “globalists” would stay silent about the antidote that will protect them from death?

Of course, the “plandemic” conspiracy theory only posited that the pandemic (caused by a “bioengineered” version of the SARS virus, naturally!) is a mechanism by which Bill Gates and his nefarious global elites will use as a pretext to mandate the “forced vaccination” of everyone for profit and control—or…something. In Adams’ view, the “plandemic” is just the first step in an even more nefarious scheme, “Oblivion Agenda,” to depopulate the earth, but for what? Adams claims that the “ideal” population of earth for this plan would involve killing off around 94% of the earth’s current population. But whY?

First, note that, Adams just “evolved” his conspiracy theory a bit. He always claimed that vaccines were just the “first half” of a binary bioweapon system:

The mass extermination via vaccines consists of two strategies:
  1. Lacing the vaccines with new bioweapons viral strains to ensure the continuation of the “outbreak” narrative. Notably, this only requires less than one percent of administered vaccines to be laced.
  2. Engineering the vaccines to cause a very high fatality rate upon exposure to a secondary future infection, in a fatal reaction called a “cytokine storm,” which is a hyper-inflammation event that leads to rapid death.
Thus, people won’t be dropping dead right away after taking the vaccines. Instead, they will seem fine until the next major bioweapon pandemic hits them, at which point the fatality rate will be extremely high (perhaps as high as 75% averaged across all age groups).

The next strain to be released via the vaccines will be COVID-21, and the COVID-21 strain could be rightly considered the second half of a binary weapon system that will achieve extremely high kill rates for human beings across the globe.

See how clever! Adams has clearly learned from the fact that COVID-19 is “only” fatal to likely considerably less than 1% of the overall population (although when hundreds of millions are infected that could means millions of deaths). Only about the same percentage of vaccines needs to be “laced” with whatever the bioweapon is that these nefarious global elites are using. Then the “mass die-offs” will be used to justify more government lockdowns, quarantines, and authoritarianism. Indeed, the concept of “universal basic income,” according to Adams, is to force people to be vaccinated because, according to him, it will be linked to “vaccine and speech compliance,” with only the compliant getting the funds necessary to purchase food and housing. (Unsurprisingly, for anyone familiar with Adams’ rantings, UBI is a program championed by the left.)

But, again, why? Here’s where Adams lays it out:

Rational people can process most of what I’ve described above, if they do the research and aren’t brain damaged from fluoride, pesticides, heavy metals and 5G. But now we bring in a topic where many people just can’t fathom the reality: Earth’s globalists are following orders from non-human entities.

Different people describe these non-human, non-Earth entities in different ways. To some people, they are demons of supernatural origin. To others, they are aliens of extraterrestrial origin. Still others say they are AI systems from advanced civilizations across the cosmos, and another explanation describes these influencing entities as interdimensional beings from a parallel universe. (Interesting note: CERN scientists have announced they are preparing to power up CERN to literally “make contact with a parallel universe,” according to mainstream media headlines.)

Whatever you call it, there exist non-human influences that seek to utterly eliminate the human race and cleanse planet Earth of humans. By some accounts, globalists have even been handed exotic technologies — such as genetic engineering tech, nanotech or anti-matter energy tech — to help achieve these goals in an efficient manner.

I love how Adams uses the “some say” technique of conspiracy mongering to leave his conspiracy theory…shall we say?…flexible enough to accommodate almost anything. Now, here’s where the conspiracy theory really requires the cessation of logical thinking. Adams claims that these “nonhuman” entities, whoever they are, have “commanded globalists” to “eliminate most human beings in the most efficient manner possible” and that that method is to convince humans to commit medical suicide. Really? That’s the “most efficient” way to wipe out 94% of humanity? A “binary bioweapon” that would, even if it were real and worked as Adams advertises, take years and mass confusion to kill off even half of humanity? Seriously? It’s the sort of plan that Dr. Evil would come up with in the Austin Powers movies.

But why? Again why? Adams is more than happy to explain:

You might wonder why the anti-human forces don’t simply nuke the planet and eliminate humans that way. The answer is because Earth’s ecosystem has value to all intelligent entities, and they do not seek the ruination of this planet; merely the elimination of the humans who inhabit it. Whatever weapon they use must be deployed with organism specificity so that it kills only humans, not apes, monkeys or other non-human primates, nor other mammals.

This is why genetically engineered vaccines are the ideal weapon for the extermination of humanity: They are very specific to human beings and pose essentially no risk of harm to the larger biosphere.

The point is to kill humans before humans kill the biosphere

In the case of COVID-19, bats might beg to disagree, but whatever.

And let’s not forget to add a bit of The Day The Earth Stood Still (the original Cold War movie, not the crappy Keanu Reeves remake) to the mix:

In the following 4-part lecture, I reveal why Earth has cosmic real estate value that’s recognized by all intelligent civilizations, and why Faster-Than-Light (FTL) travel technology is ubiquitous across the cosmos. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy puts it right in the thick of traffic from other civilizations, who have obviously watched the rise of Homo Sapiens and have no doubt sounded alarm bells over the nuclear weapons testing that humans have been carrying out since 1945.

Setting off nukes on your own planet, by the way, is sort of a cosmic-scale way to announce to the universe, “We are here, and we are infinitely stupid. Someone please stop us before we destroy everything within reach.”

Even aliens, you see, can’t change the laws of physics. Radioisotopic half-lives are the same, everywhere in the cosmos, and they can’t be altered when anything short of nuclear fusion or fission reactors. Once you contaminate a planet with radiation, that planet is a biohazard for millennia, if not longer, and this holds true no matter what life form you might have in mind for occupying that planet.

Of course, nothing about Adams’ conspiracy theory of “Oblivion Agenda” is truly knew. It contains at least three of the elements that all compelling conspiracy theories have:

  • Nefarious hidden powers seeking to do evil? Check.
  • Hidden knowledge that only a few (like Mike Adams) know about? Check!
  • A call to act on that knowledge in order to save the day designed to make believers in the conspiracy feel heroic and special? Check!

You get the idea. Also, as I mentioned, Adams has cleverly retconned his original version of the “Oblivion Agenda” conspiracy theory to incorporate elements of “plandemic” and even a classic science fiction movie. Of course, in the original version, the “globalists” would also develop AI and robots to do the work of all the billions of people dying off due to their binary vaccine bioweapon.

Again, as amusing as I find these sorts of conspiracy theories, I also recognize how destructive they are. The reason I decided to update my original post on Adams’ “Oblivion Agenda” (formerly what I called the “vaccine holocaust”) is simple. I wanted to point out how conspiracy theories are constantly evolving in response to external events, but how their core remains the same. “Oblivion Agenda” is a good example of just that. It’s incorporated COVID-19 conspiracy theories, chucked aspects that don’t work as well any more, and kept its core elements the same. This is how conspiracy theories work. Also, as always, to many (like Adams) it’s all about the grift. I bet you’d be shocked to learn that he has a prepper business. Actually, no one should be shocked. Again, it’s all about the grift.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

287 replies on “Oblivion Agenda: Mike Adams’ COVID-19-inspired update to his alien vaccine holocaust conspiracy theory”

“Hidden knowledge that only a few (like Mike Adams) know about?”

There’s the proof that Mike Adams is a quantum dot carrying member of the conspiracy. His job is to distort the facts of the conspiracy to make the whole thing look outlandish and comical, and by setting up himself as the target for public ridicule and abuse. While humanity is thereby distracted and keeps laughing at Adams and the absurdity of his conspiracy theory the nonhuman agenda rolls onward to its ultimate conclusion.

“…to help achieve these goals in an efficient manner.”

Every conspiracy needs an experienced project manager.

Orac is a ” connoisseur of conspiracy theories” Agreed.
Hidden knowledge?
Right, I’ve always been amazed by nearly identical tales of secret papers, document dumps, private phone calls, taped conversations, insider communications from high ranking officials.
What I question is: why did these whistle blowers / truth tellers choose alt med prevaricators or conspiracy mongers to confess to? Aren’t there newspapers. television, web based sources that have greater followings and are more respected?

This is literally the plot of “The X-Files” TV series and its follow-ups, particularly Season 10 (2016), which features a depopulation conspiracy via mass vaccinations containing alien DNA.

“The X-Files” has always drawn from real world conspiracy theories to build its fictional ones, but real world conspiracy theories often seem to wind up incorporating fictional elements from the show.

Believe it or not, I didn’t really watch “The X-Files” much. I was vaguely aware of the overarching conspiracy involving the black oil that could turn humans into living hosts for aliens, the Cigarette Smoking Man, and a couple of others, but I really never got into the show that much.

It’s more likely you’ll be welcomed with open tentacles. That’s where they have their mouth parts. However, should the nonhumans be AI they’ll welcome you via an unsecured API.

But-but-but:

If 94% of Earth’s population is wiped out, who’s gonna buy the drugs and vaccines? Pharma income would plummet and there wouldn’t be enough money to buy necessary luxury goods or sufficient drones to manufacture them.

Once this is realized, a titanic struggle will commence: Pharma Execs vs. Aliens.

Looking forward to the movie.

OÍ cunt! Yeah, you you ridiculous-looking self-sequine-studded self-dribbling interdimensional machine elf thing. Ya tryinna kill us? NO? Well alrighty then.

Look up the combine harvester scene from ‘Evil Aliens’. Comic genius. Much like Mike Adams intellect….the comic part, anyway.

Heh.
Mikey tells us how absolutely brilliant he is- science, mathematics, computers, music, athletics – with perfect test scores but he couldn’t continue graduate work or ever study at “elite” universities because he had no money ( bio Heath Ranger)
HOWEVER he tells us ( in his “Brush with Poverty” article, Natural News) his BS was in technical writing(?) .
Similar excuses from PRN’s head
.
Despite attending elite universities myself, I seem to recall students who had scholarships, work-study or loans. Some were foreign nationals, some were older or switching careers, attending part time.

If they were so damn great, universities’ doors would have opened to them..

Cause I’ve got a brand new combine harvester and I’ll give you the key…

Now I have a Wurzels earworm.

Lol, now? Our visitor from Mt Shasta has been taking the piss since their first comment.

At least this comment is brief enough to be amusing.

oooh, one of the non-human overlords speaks! knowing full well that us, blinded by toxins and 5G, will fail to appreciate the truth being told and march blindly into the vaccine pyre. Well not me, sister!! I will be watching from the bunker…

So if Big Evil can bioengineer all this, why bother with vaccines? Why not engineer a virus, vaccinate the elites and their families, and let ‘er rip? Make it a lot more virulent than COVID-19 while you’re at it.

Or engineer a virus that just makes all men infertile?

Look, for all of humanity’s existence we’ve been doing 2 things: trying to kill ourselves and surviving. Thus far the balance has come out in favor of surviving.

As the wise philosophers Sublime said: “We’re only gonna to die for our own arrogance, so we might as well take our time.” (40oz to Freedom)

Christine

How could they make money and die rich that way?

Nope, you need a product to sell and if it kills them…you laugh all the way to the bank. And tell your kids and friends how gullible people are, and plan the next moneymaker.You do not want to kill them off too fast now. They might not come back for more poison.

Tim

Ahhhhhh, religious evangelists. …the original grifters.

Nothing like the 700 Cub to show the true colors of a man in pursuit of Money.

Christ would call him exactly what he is… One of the moneylenders in the Temple. Money and religion should not mix, but here in the US it is the best way to get rich and have power over people.

Christ said to give the God what is God’s and to Caesar what is Caesar’s. Funny how these “religious leaders” love to schmuze with the rich and political.

It does not matter what age they are, there are lots of grifters and conmen in jail who are old when they got caught. Age is no excuse, and they all start out young.

The guy is sitting in my bedroom right now and he’s fukkin creeping me out. He smells like old mowed grass. And he doesn’t float as much as flitter around with blinks of the eye.

May Mr. Randi rest in peace.
He is a hero to those who oppose pseudoscience and kooky crackpottery.
He made it his mission to take up where Houdini left off back at the end of the Victorian Era and the decades that followed. At that time we were overrun with psychic and paranormal spiritualism grifters thanks to the general naiveté of the population and the promotional efforts of the traditional foes of reason – mediums, “spiritual advisors”, mentalists, etc.
Houdini recognized their scam as nothing more than the crude employment of well known stage magician techniques promoted as real phenomena and spent the end years of his life exposing them so well that they became laughing stocks to the public and were legally outlawed in many places.
… Only to rise again in the 1950s, 60s, 70s because the scamming grifters never abandon a proven money making grift.
With the NuAge crapola of those decades also came the rise in alt-science kookery such as spoon bending, dowsing, telekinetics, auras, etc.
These alt-science scams were the ones Randi mainly took on showing that they were just as ridiculous and phony as the spiritualism of 50+ years earlier.
.
Rationalists owe him a debt of gratitude.
.
Have fun.

Sad to see hate & name-calling in these comments. Homeoprophylaxis has been used successfully for many years in India & Japan has a more focused vaccine approach. Why is there only one approach led through corruption & lobbying by big pharma, who have merely proven themselves to be criminal? When we have lost the ability to discuss & cherish TRUTH, resorting to name-calling & hate, we have divided our society.

Hi d. It is what fascists do, make everything “us vs them” and there is only black and white in their world. And their world is rigidly Black and White, no exceptions allowed.

Reminds me of my son who has Autism.

He will not take his Asthma medicine because the officer in the DARE program said prescription medicines were poison and would kill you…..

Seems the officer was too stupid to think to tell the kids that the medicines a physician prescribed for them personally were a completely different matter and should be taken.

Fifteen years later he still will not take his asthma medicine and wheezes every day. I could smack that officer for his stupidity.

Black and white is hard to live with, which is why as time goes on things get more open and “Liberal”. It is the flow of the tides, soon it will change.

On this site all vaccines are unimpeachable, and if you object to anybof them, you are a “antivaxxer” and thus a believer in QAnon. And apparently that lizards are masquerading as the British Royal Family.

A) I agree. That officer was incredibly stupid. Making statements like that without a clear understanding of how they will be received and understood.

B) Vaccines are not unimpeachable. All you need are valid, proven (by good quality science) issues and those issues need to make the vaccine more dangerous to the population than the disease it protects against.

Interestingly enough, we are now in a situation where pharmaceutical companies are raising concerns about the ethics of fast tracking a Covid vaccine approval. Bit odd considering they are supposed to be completely immune from the fallout and have nothing in mind except population culling and appeasing their lizard masters.

Personally, I’ve often thought that our royal family are more likely to be shape shifting horses than lizards. I mean, think of the servants. Having to clear away all those moult remains if they were lizards. Mind you, they’d make great souvenirs.

Yes, “Chris” has no point but can only resort to name-calling. “Snowflake”? That’s funny. If s/he only new – maybe s/he will one day learn to spell real words.

NumberWang

The royal family are kelpies?????? Well, Charles and wife definitely have that horse face look.

Tim

I loooove Pink Floyd. Got to see them at the Philadelphia Spectrum when they were on their “Dark Side of the Moon” your.

Moneyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Yup it’s a drag….and completely removes all conscience and ethics. The pursuit of money can be the true source of Evil…..

You will notice funny thing: homeopathy is always proven in some other country. Homeopaths have killed many people, actually.

Aarno

More people does each year from mistakes made by MDs, RNs and pharmacists.

In the US one study says 250,000 people here in the US alone…..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Personally, in the last five years I have had physicians order medications I was allergic to 3 times.

And then this past week a doctor wanted to inject my eye with a medication that again had an ingredient in it I was allergic to….. Latex.

If I was not so careful and had not called the manufacturer, I would have either lost my eye or even could have died. Nowadays you better check what they are giving you or you can be buried next week.

Aarno

How does my doctor know I am allergic to something?????

Well, you see here in America your medical chart actually contains a complete list of all the things you are allergic to. The physician does not need to do mind-reading, the doctor needs to read the chart first and check the allergy list.

It is not rocket science, it takes two seconds to check the allergy list before writing a prescription..

My pharmacy has the same list. So does MedicAlert, so if someone calls with my ID number, MedicAlert can tell them all my allergies.

And what does Cerebrovascular Disease deaths have to do with deaths due to medical mistakes? The number of deaths from medical mistakes came from a study done by John Hopkins medical safety experts.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us

My numbers are obviously not wrong. There is no billing code for “Death by Doctor” so the CDC does not record them on their chart.

Smut

In an age when bloodletting was the main treatment for disease, Dr Samuel Hahnemann was using the scientific method to find medicines that would relieve disease……..

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-did-eighteenth-century-founder-homeopathy-think-his-theory-medicine-worked-180962794/

Dr Hahnemann’s tiny sugar pills were a kinder medicine than what was practiced back then. And there is a study showing that homeopathy worked as well as conventional medicine in treating eczema in children.

Homeopathy is an accepted medical practice in Germany and Switzerland.. ..both nations which do not have short life expectancy. In fact Switzerland exchanges the number one spot for longest life expectancy with Japan every year or so. Here is a study done in Switzerland that shows that placebo and homeopathy are not the same effect…

https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/209386

My doctor always asks am I allergic to something regardless of medical records. It is an obvious thing to tell to your doctor.
Stroke is very common problem. Do you think that medical death is as common ?
You cite paper you like, and ignore others. There is better one:
Sunshine JE, Meo N, Kassebaum NJ, Collison ML, Mokdad AH, Naghavi M. Association of Adverse Effects of Medical Treatment With Mortality in the United States: A Secondary Analysis of the Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study. JAMA Netw Open. 2019;2(1):e187041. doi:10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2018.7041
You will notice that adverse effects of drugs are included, and problems caused by surgery, Surgery is always risky thing, even without any mistakes.

@ Aelxa Hahnemann believed syphilitic miasm, and water would activate some psychic thing to cure disease. Nothing scientific here.
Chiropractic is legal in US. It does not mean that it works

Homeopathy is an accepted medical practice in Germany and Switzerland

The acceptance of homeopathy in wealthy countries as a harmless placebo practice for the “worried well” strikes me as a different matter from the original suggestion, from ‘d0614534050g’ / Doug, that the quality of public health in India is a role-model.

Aarno

The millions of people who use chiropractic and get benefit from it would completely disagree with you.

From my personal experience, after a car accident that had me taking Tylenel #4 Q3° (every three hours) and Flexeril at the same time, I found chiropractic and massage therapy a life saver. After six months of taking the meds and the physicians saying they could not help me, I looked for something else. The muscle spasm was so bad I was walking on tip-toe on one side from the shifting of my hip upward.

It took a week of chiropractic and massage therapy to get my hip level and my foot flat on the floor again.

And after two months I was taking no Tylenel#4 or Flexeril because I was cured. No more muscle spasms making my life hell.

Chiropractic and massage therapy can work wonders.

@Aelxa No one would deny that massage therapy is useful, probably even massage of of the spine, Chiropractors claim that subluxations cause all illnesses, and that all illnesses can be cured by fixing invisible subluxations is problem. This is the problem.

Aarno

I have seen many chiropractors in my life, and none if them have ever said “chiropractic can cure all diseases”.

There is no medical practice, of any kind, that can “cure all diseases”. And I have had most of my physicians send me to a chiropractor for soft tissue injuries, as they have no treatment that works for them, other than pain pills.

Regular conventional physicians in the US actually refer patients to chiropractors, every day.

@Aelxa Funny thing: All chiropractic websites I know essentially claim to cure all diseases. And physical therapy (or massage) is a much better idea here. They do not have delusions of grandeur. Personally, an ergonomist would be even better.

Aarno

I just looked at 8 different chiropractic websites in the closest large city, since I live in the country. (My chiropractor has no website, he does not even have an x-ray machine, but does well by people telling others how he helped them. I referred my neighbor who had terrible back pain that his own chiropractor was not helping and wanted to do more x-rays. Two visits to my chiro and his back was fine. There are good and bad chiropractors just like MDs who come in good and bad varieties.)

Not one of the websites claimed that chiropractic is the cure for all diseases. All stated they could help with pain, to help a person live a more pain-free life. One stated they could help reduce pain by 5%,10%, 20% or more, all stated they could help a person not need to rely on medications to suppress symptoms and could help them get pain relief.

I have no idea where you live or what kind of chiropractic is practiced there, but where I live no one makes a blanket statement that they can cure everything, or even totally eliminate the problem.

@Aelxa Do you know dr Axe ? Or chiropractors selling their wares at AutismOne conference ? Chiropractors concentrating back pain relief should make more noise.

If Homeoprophylaxis works then why did India develop a cholera vaccine?

If Homeoprophylaxis works then why was smallpox only eradicated with the smallpox vaccine?

Not sure you understood my post – I’m not anti-vaccine; vaccines are not the only approach to confronting illnesses.

I thought another leg of Mikey’s ‘Alien Overlord Depopulation Konspiracee’ was the promotion of global warming.
This aligns with Adams’ attacks on climate change science.
I believe The Health DeRanger’s explanation was this:
To depopulate the planet teh alienz and their NWO lackeys promote the ‘global warming hoax’ and will institute measures for global cooling such as chemtrails and strict reduction of CO2 emissions.
Since, to Mikey, CO2 is a good thing and only promotes lush vegetation growth he sees any reduction as a konspiracee to reduce global harvests and trigger world-wide deadly famines… all by teh NWO and their shape-shifting Alien Overlords.
Add to that the chemtrail cooling of the planet which, to Mikey, is also part of the konspiracee and the production of crops will be nearly impossible making earth unsuitable for human life.
Once the humanz are gone teh alienz will modify the earth for their biology and force the remaining 5% of the human population to be their slaves.
.
This guy really believes this hilariously childish fantasy.
His maturity level is apparently stuck at age 13 as is his scientific intellect.
.
That there are quantities of people who follow what this ignorant insane lunatic babbles is frightening.
I wonder how proud Dr. Oz is of his promotion of Mikey on his show years ago.

And GMOs are going to weaken all our systems so they collapse at the first sight of disease.

No conspiracy is too unimportant for Mikey to include in his grand conspiracy to rule them all.

Chris

There is a conspiracy….

To make a poisonous product that people spray on their crops, which then forces the neighboring farms to switch to the poisonous crop seeds and liquid hell, before their own farms go under from crop loss.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/monsanto-crop-system-damage-us-farms-documents

If you keep thinking people do not intentionally do harm, you are living in La-La Land.

The Almighty Dollar removes all scruples and morals.

Not to defend Monsanto, but farmers actually like herbicides. One must remove the weeds somehow.

Aarno

Yup, people love the easy way out.

Then you find out decades later the herbicide gave you and your family Cancer and you are all dying.

Just got to love that Roundup containing glyphosate, it is really great at causing Cancer.

I pull my weeds by hand and always have.

It is the “inert” ingredients that are going to help kill you off….

Only if you drink the product. You are not supposed to do that. You are supposed to dilute it with water and spray it on plants you want to kill.

@Aelxa You think that a farmer would remove weeds by hand from field of thousands acres ? But yes, using herbicides in your home garden is indeed stupid. Among other things, you would need protective equipment.

Aarno

In America they sell a producylt called “weed and feed”, tiny pellets you spread on your lawn so you do not need to weed the lawn by hand and it fertilizes the grass, too.

Needless you can always tell a “weed and feed” lawn the grass is green and lushband the trees are dying.

My neighbor has a great green weed-free lawn, and now the hundreds of years old oak tree in the middle of their lawn is dying. It was a beautiful 120+ foot tree. Now it may soon fall on their house. No tree company wants to remove it because there is no room to let it fall if you cut it down.

It makes me sick to see that beautiful tree dying, all the other trees on their property are healthy and lush but they have no grass near them, only dead leaves underneath on the ground.

Yup, herbicides will kill weeds…..and trees, too. And also give your dog lymphoma and bladder cancer. I use no chemicals on my property, thank you very much, it now comes in the rain because so much Glyphosate has been used.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/is-roundup-safe-for-dogs/

Chris Preston

You are drinking Glyphosate everyday.

If you read the links there is so much Glyphosate in the environment that the rain even contains Glyphosate. It snows Glyphosate.

Just because you can not see a chemical does not mean it is not there. Water testing throughout the World finds Glyphosate in the water. And even worse Glyphosate is in the air in warm weather so you get to inhale it, too.

It is amazing that Rachael Carson’s book “Silent Spring” did not make people more aware of the dangers of releasing novel chemicals into the environment like it was candy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE77U61720110831

And Mexico is totally banning all use of Glyphosate by 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-herbicide/mexico-to-phase-out-use-of-herbicide-glyphosate-idUSKCN25902N

Luxembourg has already banned the stuff as of the end of this year, and six of the Gulf nations, Saudia Arabia, Bahrain, etc banned Glyphosate back in 2016.

There really is a limit to the chemicals you can use, every chemical has to be processed by the body and detoxified. And if the human body never saw it before it often starts to store it in many cases, so the body’s load starts to get larger and larger. It all starts to add up.

It is not much different than Lead, the body will store it in your bones instead of Calcium. And when your body needs some Calcium it releases PTH from the Parathyroid glands and you can get a good dose of Lead instead.

So these aliens have figured out faster than light travel but still cannot engineer a COVID-19 like virus with a 10% or more fatality rate, even though there do exist other viruses with even 100% fatality rates?

Well, SARS had a high fatality rate which killed people off before they could efficiently spread the disease. The R dropped below one and bye-bye SARS.

You need a not too deadly disease like COVID-19 and a very mobile society to spread a disease far and wide. Of course, it is not going to kill off enough people for the eugenics squad members who tend to be in the top 1%. Everyone’s genes are crap, except theirs in their opinion.

@Aelxa SARS fatality rate was 15%. Plague is much more dangerous, and it is still around. Smallpox was more dangerous, too, and it did not disappear without vaccination.

Aarno

It depended on what form of smallpox you had. One form had only a 1% deathrate, and the other had a 30% deathrate.

SARS had only a 7.5% asymptomatic infected patient rate, and symptoms kicked in 2-7 days after infection. With COVID-19 it has a 10% asymptomatic rate, and the symptoms set in after 2-14 days.

So there were far fewer people running around spreading SARS. Most people had symptoms fairly fast, were too sick to spread it, and with a 15% deathrate people were careful trying to avoid contracting it.

I think an overall 15% deathrate is pretty darn bad. If COVID-19 had a deathrate that high, you would not see people running around without masks in America.

@ Aelxa One would ask how common this super mild smallpox was? Or do you speak about variola minor ? I meant variola major, which was around until is was eradicated.

Aarno

Both smallpox strains are now extinct, the last case of variola minor was in1977, and all smallpox was announced extinct in 1980.

The smallpox vaccines they used was effective against both strains. How common one was versus the other? No idea, they just say variola minor was less common.

But you can find this all out by googling it. Try searching in your native language.

@Aelxa I can do English Google search, thank you. But the point is that variola major, with high mortality was around until it was eradicated by vaccine, High mortality rate did not eradicate it.

His maturity level is apparently stuck at age 13 as is his scientific intellect.

Eh, I have met 13-year olds with a good grasp of scientific notions and a clear understanding of what’s real and what’s fiction.
I’ll go for age 8.

@ Reality:

What makes me laugh: for one who constantly bemoans avarice and wealth, Mikey is not exactly impoverished himself ( see Wikipedia on Natural News;/ HealthWyze story on him- all of this easy to find) He sold his software company and switched over from Y2K scams to health scams. He brags about how his various business ventures have grown and that he needs additional warehouses for distributing his product line. He worked with a real estate group in Ecuador selling homes and also owns a large ranch outside of Austin, Texas- a place well known for lack of regulations and low taxes.

Others who preach to their followers about pharma greed like Mercola** and Null***,each own estateS and are worth fortunes (Mercola 100 million USD/ Null annual sales 10-25 million )- business sites; many images on the net. Oz owns a palace ( see Dr Oz house Cliffside Park)
Andy W., Del and RFK jr also live the high life
.
** Illinois and Florida
*** Texas and Florida; plus NYC apt

for one who constantly bemoans avarice and wealth, Mikey is not exactly impoverished himself

I always felt that Mikey’s problems with avarice and wealth was that he had plenty of the former, but it was not translating into enough of the latter for him.

You’d always be able to recognise a lizard from V. They’d be the one trying to set up a hamster farm. Mind you, this recent focus on insects as the next big protein source……

NumberWang

I thought worms were the next protein source.

Worm farms are alot cheaper to setup than hamster farms……

@ Aelxa

Worm farms are alot cheaper to setup than hamster farms

Eh, so is the rearing/farming of insects.
(oh, maybe you meant “worm” to include “insect larvae” – then you know already)

Check up Tenebrio molitor. There are European companies exploring the market for animal foodstuff enriched/made of insect.
In China, they are already in the large-scale production of cockroaches.

My boss is into this. Brought us back some molitor-plated chocolate, once. A bit crunchy, but fine.

Also, the insectarium in Montréal has a vending machine proposing samples of insect food.
Worth a visit. One shy (but big) scorpion kept trying to splash me with the water from its terrarium.

I remember finding a tin can of fried silkworms on the shelf of the tiny grocery store in my town back in the 1960s. It always puzzled me how that can wound up on that grocery shelf.

I mean the town was American English-Irish Catholic, there was no Chinese or Japanese for a hundred miles around.

Cockroaches are filthy, and like to live in sewers. Not to mention they smell nasty. One would have to be crazy to eat a cockroach. When I lived in Florida, I heard a crunching sound coming from my kitchen. A cockroach was eating a clean Styrofoam container I had sitting in the counter, which was freaky to see. They will eat anything.

I read China is raising cockroaches to eat their food scraps……

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/bjep7z/china-is-breeding-an-army-of-cockroaches-to-eat-its-food-scraps

The Chinese are very strange.

jrkrideau

Actually they are using the cockroaches to eat their garbage, then using the cockroaches to feed the pigs or else turn the cockroaches into medicine..

I sent this before with link so people could see, but it went unto orac-heaven.

Now, you might question whether it’s appropriate to make fun of conspiracy theories like QAnon, given their malign influence on society,

I think this is all you really can do with conspiracy theories like QAnon. Often when people raise these conspiracies with me (after the obligatory eye rolling of course) I bring up the most ridiculous thing involved in the conspiracy theory and poke as many holes in it as I can. John Scudamore is often good for this. I am often met with scepticism that such beliefs are not part of the conspiracy. When people find out they are it does tend to send them on a different path.

One of the nice things about most conspiracy theories is that they accrete more and more ridiculous components as time goes on. It is almost as if the participants in the conspiracy theory have no ability to say no. Like crank magnetism in many ways.

As a former holder of an Energy Q clearance (Because some idiot left a document marked CNWDI in an inappropriate storage container/location that I had to deal with until their agents came for it) I find this all hilarious. The moron behind this conspiracy couldn’t even get his intelligence information handling right. One could do so with the help of Wikipedia for Pete’s sake. I guess “All Source Clearance Patriot” didn’t have the same ring to it.

After I got out of the service, having this clearance proved useful for contract work. The only thing you might see with this clearance you wouldn’t with a standard TS/SCI is nuclear bomb designs, yields, blah blah. Absolutely nothing related to anything else outside of Energy. People can be so stupid…

Why is that?? I think it has something to do with sialic acid or lack thereof. I’m not sure it is practical to replicate this state in humans without them dying in horrible, twisted ways.

Tim

If you notice COVID-19 deathrates go up around age 50. That is the age at which arthritis cases go up in patients.

The idea is inflammation is the driver, as to how to reduce over-reaction of inflammation in humans is a constant driver in the field of recombinate medicines like Dupixent, Enbrel, Humira etc which have been developed.

So the clues are there, but how to achieve it is still the question. And then achieving it via medicines is a constant monetary cost. The bats don’t have to purchase anything.

Sialic acid has to do with surface binding of proteins for getting the virus into cells.

In bats it does not matter if the virus gets into cells, the bat’s immune system and inflammatory response is low enough to allow the virus to get into cells without destroying the body and causing disease symptoms or death.

Like Typhoid Mary they can spread the virus but be unaffected by it.

Innate immune system could cause permanent, heritable immunity to SARS CoV I am afraid that some genetic engineering is needed there

If you notice COVID-19 deathrates go up around age 50

Looking at the CDC dat, it’s actually starting from age 30, with a factor x3 between each age group.
3x more deaths for the 30-39 than people under 30, then 10x for 40-49 (still compared to the under 30), 30x for 50-64, then 90x for 65-74, then 220x for 75-84, and then 630x for >85 years.

Whereas a pathogen could not achieve a 90% death rate on its own

Yersinia pestis is having a sad. It had its 15-min of fame, and now it’s all forgotten.
(OK, the >90% is only with the cutaneous or respiratory forms)

If you are willing to wait, and/or don’t have much access to modern medical stuff, other bacteria and viruses are also on the 90% list.

Rabies would like to show off it’s gold medal death rate of 100% without vaccination. Clearly the product of alien interference.

When a virus can turn its host onto a maddened bitey thing, the host’s long-term existence is not a concern for it.

Anyone who’d call glyphosate “liquid hell” and allege that “it is really great at causing Cancer” is an utter Moron.

Wait, since it was Aelxa, that’s redundant.

Bacon

You revert to the typical tactic of the person with no valid response..wimpy name calling. You are not impressing me with your descent into school-playground bully name-calling.

Yes, Glyphosate and Rounduolp are liquid hell. Proof that it increases Non-Hogkins Lymphoma is known, and Monsanto is paying out over 10 BILLION Dollars to satisfy cases already being litigated..

It also disrupts gut bacteria at FDA allowed doses in food, which were then fed to bees….

https://aem.asm.org/content/86/18/e01150-20

No wonder bees are dying all over the nation, and without enough bees food production goes down. Most of the crops in the US are fertilized by bees. Talk to any beekeeper and they will tell you how their hives are dying.

https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2017/02/20/inflammatory-bowel-disease-diagnoses-rising/

Inflammatory Bowel Disease is going thru the roof, which is what one would expect if the gut biome is disrupted. It is said about 80% of our immune system is the bacteria in our guts.

You can poo-poo what I say but the facts are the stuff will make you sick and your life pure hell.

Redundant is your usual descent into calling names, try growing up.

Tone trolling and consequent pearl-clutching can result in median nerve damage and carpal tunnel syndrome.

Beware.

sirhcton

Yup, the dreaded L word….Latex the bane of hospital workers everywhere who had to quit working due to developing a Latex allergy.

Thankfully now all hospitlls are MOSTLY Latex-free….except for their Physical Therapy depts. They use Latex exercise bands exclusively, thus contaminating their dept with massive amounts of Latex.

@sirhcton,

I noticed that Walmart has replaced virtually all the natural rubber latex baby-bottle nipples and pacifiers with silicon based products.

Q. Why is it so easy to take a known hazardous material (i.e., latex) out of baby products but difficult to completely remove it from vaccines.

@Orac,

You’re amazing, Respectful Insolence continues to entertain and educate year after year; month after month; week after week; and sometimes day after day.

On the topic of cranks & grifters, I am delighted to report that James Lyons-Weiler Ph.D now expects to be called “Dr Jack”, styling himself as a trustworthy first-names-basis physician. He really is that fraudulent.

“Dr Jack”

Jack is not even a diminutive of James.

Perhaps he needs to go for the truth option and call himself Dr Liar.

Let’s be fair, “Dr Jimmy” does not have quite the gravitas that JLW desires. He’s trying to be chummy but also authoritative, with a trustworthy family doctor vibe.
Of course he could just not pretend to be a physician

Population control HAS been the driving force behind the vaccine agenda but not in the way either antivaxxers or you provaxxers think. There is a disconnect in both camps. There have been some deviations along the way from what the earlier World Population Conference’s plans of actions envisioned.

@Chris, Christine can’t even keep straight if she’s supposed to be smart or not. She loves to claim she’s soooo much smarter than both sides, right until we catch her in a lie, at which point she doesn’t know very much and is “confused.”

@ Aarno,

That was the THEORY (literally just a theory) at that time, based on data showing that 1st world women had fewer children. Attributing it to lower infant mortality was a hypothesis; not proven.

For once CK is correct. Population control IS a driving force behind the vaccine agenda. Saving lives increases the population. The secret vaccine agenda must be to increase the worlds population enough that there is a food crisis followed by the collapse of civilisation. Whereupon the hidden tribes of the South American and African rainforrest as well as the secret moon dwellers of the NWO and the bunker dwelling cannibals of the American prepping community will inherit the Earth.

@ Numberwang,

Huh? The thought was that women in the 3rd world had high fertility rates to replace children lost to high mortality rates. “Quantity vs quality”.

Thinking that vaccines would lower infant mortality & result in lower fertility rates, vaccines were considered an important factor in plans of action for population control.

However, firstly; women don’t actually have babies to replace others. Having many children had cultural significance. The women didn’t WANT less children. The first world wanted 3rd world women to want less babies. They also want to take advantage of Africa’s agricultural potential & natural mineral resources & a youthful, dissenting population would be adversarial to their power grab.

Secondly, infant mortality declines with access to clean drinking water, sanitation services & antibiotics/IV fluids. There are countries in sub Saharan Africa with vaccine uptake rates (99%) higher than the US (87-96%), who have infant mortality rates in the 30’s & 40’s, while the US’s infant mortality rate is around 5.

Clearly; high vaccine uptake does not = low infant mortality & the DPT is now actually correlated with higher child mortality rates in Africa.

Golden oldie by Peter Aaby : High mortality rate correlates with high mortality rate, in Guinea Bissau

There is no debating denialists. It’s impossible, They can always lie faster than you can fact check. Just don’t do it @ MarkHoofnagle, today

HOWEVER, in a format like this which is NOT limited by formal time constraints and is WRITTEN, not spoken, it IS possible to fact check every false claim and even link to relevant evidence. When anti-vaxxers/ alt med faithful/ conspiracy theorists invade RI, many regulars respond, valiantly, to illustrate the error of their ways, usually falling upon deaf ears but educating the rest of us, lurkers and newbies included..

There is another path: none of these people are saying anything new, in fact, Orac has usually covered their claims in great detail years ago which are available via the search function. So I ask, “Where do they get these ideas?”; frequently, I read a screed by one of the usual suspects and then see trolls repeat the same concepts and “facts” here in a day or two. If you think about it, these misguided, mal-educated people are merely following more accomplished, professional dissemblers who earn substantial livings ( as I continually show) disseminating misinformation on a grand scale..
My suggestion to regulars: correct the trolls with facts and- if you fancy- provide a little background such as “So-and-so started this crap” or “Sounds like whoever”.
A rejoinder or challenge can be: ‘Are these ideas taught anywhere in universities that are not alt med establishments, on-line Gaia Universities or in the back of a local health food store or yoga studio’. .: .

@ christine kincaid

IV fluids

Which are often needed for rehydrating people suffering from diarrhea.
Which, in infants, could be due to a rotavirus infection.

There is a vaccine for that, now.

Cheaper and easier to get than IV fluids.
I don’t know if they still do the following. When I was young, a medic who did a tour with Médecins sans Frontières told us how, in many places, their teams would use a famous sugary black drink instead of IV fluids. Degassing it first, of course.
Cheaper than clean water – much cheaper easier to get than IV fluids -, already sterile, full of sugars and other nutrients.

I could also bring up measles as a current leading cause of infant mortality, but you don’t believe that measles kills.

Lyons-Weiler is all-in on the idea that if Trump is re-elected, we will enter a Golden Age of vaccine rejection; if not, we’ll be doomed to an abyssal darkness, illuminated only by the lights of a perverted science.**

He has a new screed to that effect on his Reason-Logic-Compassion-SCIENCE website. It contains many of antivaxers’ moldy oldies, including Paul Offit telling us that innocent babes can get 10,000 vaccines, the claim that vaccines contain fetal cells, that the term anti-vaxxer is “hate speech” and so on, ad nauseam.

*yeah, I stole that from Winston Churchill.

I learned that (1) SARS-CoV-2 is a laboratory-created bioweapon.
(2) COVID-19 kills hardly anyone, so the worst bioweapon ever.
(3) JLW and Dr Sin Hang Lee are now best buddies.
(4) All the standard tests for COVID-19 are wrong half the time, because Sin Hang Lee’s homebake version of PCR gives different results.

Smut

I guess if COVID-19 does not kill you then “it hardly kills anyone”. Except when it is someone close to you, like a loved one, then you get to feel the reality and pain.

And PCR tests are wrong 30% of the time, giving a false negative test in up to 30% of negative test results. A false positive is very rare. So if you have symptoms, and the test says you have COVID-19, you can count on it being correct in 99.9% of cases. If it says you do not have COVID-19, then you have a huge chance of actually having COVID-19 which you can spread around.

Now antigen tests for COVID-19 can be wrong 50-90% of the time, and antibody tests, too.

The big problem is people having residual effects from COVID-19, having no positive COVID-19 test, and so doctors do not want to treat them and insurance does not want to pay for any treatment……

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/suffering-from-covid-for-monthsand-battling-murky-test-results-too-11595865869

@ Smut Clyde,

The tests ARE wrong half the time but not the way antivaxers think. They think the tests are rendering high false positives while in reality; they are rendering high false negatives.

I may not have conveyed the full extent of the JLW / Sin Hang Lee stupidity. SHL used a battery of samples designed for calibrating COVID tests. He claims that because all the approved tests give ‘positive’ for samples X, Y and Z, and ‘negative’ for samples A, B and C (in order to be approved), while his Walter White homebake operation gives the opposite result, therefore all the approved tests must be wrong.

He wrote a paper about it! (published in a zero-profile newsletter).
http://www.int-soc-clin-geriat.com/info/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Dr.-Lees-paper-on-testing-for-SARS-CoV-2.pdf

J L-W thinks very highly of the paper, as it proves that the prevalence of COVID-19 is vastly exaggerated, which fits into his hope of crawling into bed with the far-right. What he doesn’t tell people is that he was the paper’s hand-picked peer reviewer. He really is that much of a skeezy lying wee fraud.

Bacon

Fetal cells are used to make certain vaccines….

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients/fetal-tissues

Who cares if the cells are not found in the final product, a dead human baby’s cells are the basis of making the vaccine.

How about I make you some nice soup made from human body parts, bones etc and then “filter and purify” it for you before serving it.

Yummmmm! Bon appetit!!!!!!!! Hope you enjoy it.

A cell line.
From a single fetus aborted in the 1960s. When the only abortions available were “therapeutic”, ie, for medical reasons.

You know that rubella during pregnancy causes miscarriages and major birth defects, right? And vaccinating against rubella prevents these miscarriages and birth defects, right?

Therefore far more fetuses have survived to be born because of this vaccine than the one single one that was aborted for medical reasons having nothing to do with vaccine manufacture.

If the cell cultures used in the production of some vaccines are “fetal” because they were descended from cells in fetal tissue, then you are a fetus, and so am I.

JustaTech

Only from “a cell line”. Amazing how a person can divorce themselves from the knowledge that a real human being was used and continues to be used. A human being that did not consent to be used. I wonder if the parents were asked for consent, I really doubt it very much. I would never allow cells from my fetus to be used in such a manner.

Henrietta Lacks is another person whose cells were taken from and her cells were used to make the polio vaccine.

A vial of Henrietta Lacks cells go for as much as $10,000. Her family did not find out about what was going on, until a scientist wanted to do gene testing on them, that in effect Henrietta was still alive thru these cells. Cells that conceivably could be used to clone a person that is her in body, if not in mind.

The family feels violated and used, and in my opinion they should be receiving compensation for every vial of Henrietta’s cells sold.

And it is amazing that you expect the use of a human being to be excused, by saying it prevented miscarriages and deaths of other fetuses.

This rings of the Nazi excuses that they were doing medical “experimentation” to save lives.

I think you and I live on totally different ethical and moral Earths.

Smut

Well, you are a fetus that got to grow up. And when you think about it, the use of fetal cells to make vaccines is a strange form of cannibalism.

If the cell cultures used in the production of some vaccines are “fetal” because they were descended from cells in fetal tissue, then you are a fetus, and so am I.

Indeed. WI-38 is a fetus as old as I am.

A human being that did not consent to be used.

A fetus is not a fecking human being. Nor is a blastocyte. Nor is a fertilised egg.

Fetus fetishists are just creepy.

Did you know that JLW’s ipak-edu.org is offering courses in bio, psych, law and analytics? Well, actually, only bio 1 where you can audit or get a certificate ( the aforementioned concentrations and 4 year bio are in the works)

I made a joke about Gaia U not knowing that there was a real Gaia U AND this clusterfuck.
. .

Lyons-Weiler clearly hasn’t discovered the full opportunities for grifting. He needs an online shop, not an online university.

@ Terrie,

"Africa has over 3000 different cultures. Treating them as a monolith is racist and reductive."

Lol. Assuming third world women can be manipulated into wanting what you want for them is racist, misogynistic, arrogant & elitist.

Wrong. Desperate people can be readily manipulated or economically forced into just about anything.

Signed,

A person who has been in three active warzones and a dozen other third-world garden spots…Including Africa.

I’m not sure why you think that it is the women that want the multiple children CK. Lack of access to birth control and cultures where virility or a womans worth to her family is measured in units of children plus lack of jobs, opportunities and war all play a part too.

Not to mention cultures where boys are seen as worth more than girls. Both women and men are subject to the pressures in these situations but it’s not usually the woman who has the power to change things.

Real life tends to have multiple interweaving strands. You can pretty much ignore anyone who tries to push a simplistic explanation as the whole cloth when it comes to society or culture.

Numberwang,

We didn’t spread anti-fertility propaganda & conduct mass sterilization out of concern for what they wanted; we did it to gain access to Africa’s natural resources.

It’s one thing to offer it; it’s another to insist on it.

What mass sterilisations? If it was unwilling then it’s a crime. If you are talking about the bollocks where the religious authorities have tried to claim that certain vaccinations are a secret sterilisation program…..

It’s transparent bollocks.

”Who cares if the cells are not found in the final product”

Trump evidently didn’t care that the Regeneron antibody “cocktail” he credits for curing his Covid-19 was developed using cell cultures from an aborted fetus, so there’s that.

Antivaxers claim that fetal cells are present in vaccines to try to capitalize on a “yuck” factor. It’s true that very few people care about use of cell cultures derived decades ago. What matters is that this nonsense vividly illustrates how willing antivaxers are to lie to further their agenda.

Manipulating people in poor countries and fanning suspicions about vaccines with lies is another disgusting aspect of antivax ideology.

Bacon

That people do not care about “human cell lines” being used is quite incorrect, ask people if they know that vaccines are made using fetus cells and most have absolutely no idea.

I ran a small test, 20 people, and randomly asked people I know if they were aware of this, and not one of them knew this and all were freaked out. They thought only animals were used in some way to make vaccines, which they thought was bad enough as they are all animal lovers.

That the cells are filtered out, and not in the vaccine, did not make them feel better at all.

Yup, we live in totally different moral and ethical Worlds. If I take a vaccine I know a human was used and I am taking in part of a human being, even if “the cells were filtered out and purified”. I remember that a person died and in “Spirit” a part of them is being incorporated in me.

You on the other hand, seem to have a lack in your humanity, thinking it is no big deal.

I ran a small test, 20 people, and randomly asked people I know if they were aware of this, and not one of them knew this and all were freaked out.

So you repeated your “fetal cells in vaccines” lie, and you think that people’s responses to your lying is somehow dispositive. Well done you.

Smut

If you bother to read the entire post, I wrote….”That the cells were filtered out and not in the vaccine did not make them feel better at all.”

I told them the cells were filtered out and the vaccine “purified” (whatever “purified” means).

So to say I am spreading lies, is in fact a complete lie that you just wrote.

Bacon

If the cure for COVID-19 was eating a human being trump would do it. He thinks he is the exception to all rules. And we already know he had no morals or ethics.

Remember him saying if he went out in the street and shot a person he would still be elected? His Loyal Lemmings would barbque the body for him to eat.

That you shove trump forward as a example, shows some people will excuse anything.

And the rejection of “cannibalism”, by taking in a substance made from a human being, is not a “yuck factor”, it is a moral stance.

Well, there IS an “Oblivion Agenda” for depopulation based on the fact COVID has “high transmission rather than high fatality rates.” It’s just that the “Evil Geniuses” behind it are Scott Atlas and the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, not some alien life forms… Unless Atlas is actually… hmmm…

Sigh…the latex is only in the syringe. The SYRINGE. There is ZERO latex in the vial unless you’re getting the anthrax vaccine or one or two other rare ones. There is exactly ZERO latex in the vaccine itself. Our clinics never get the formulations of TDaP that include latex in the vial, for example (The old dtap, etc.) Most don’t.

And, as to your suggestion that we ignore allergies in the EMR – you’re foxtrot oscar sierra. I review those every time for every patient. It’s a requirement under the NPSGs. Everyone does except for a few old crackpots I worked with back in training who used paper charts and went to direct pay to avoid using an EMR. Are you seeing one of these types of docs? The reason I ask is – the EMR would light up and scream at me if I tried to sign an order for any injection on a patient with known latex allergy if I hadn’t specifically ordered the “blue” syringe (As we call it) that has a latex-free stopper. No one defaults to these because they are like five times the price.

tl;dr – there is NO LATEX in vaccines themselves.

MedicalYeti writes,

“No one defaults to these because they are like five times the price.”

@ MedicalYeti,

We know that repeated exposure to natural-latex products can be hazardous, therefore, in the spirit of vaccine continuous improvement let’s be proactive and practice “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” In simplicity, please use the latex-free stopper.

MedicalYeti

I never said there was Latex in Vaccines.

I said there CAN BE Latex in the various components used to deliver an injection.

You have no idea if there is Latex in the vial stopper unless you ask the manufacturer as I did. The manufacturer of the drug my retina specialist wanted to use said they could not guarantee no Latex, as their suppliers changed due to price and they did not insist on testing for Latex in the vial stoppers.

But they also for not put a warning on their packaging that the product is jot Latex-free.

What I love is band-aids which do not contain Latex…..but the paper wrapper the band-said comes in contact with contains Latex. Which contaminates the band-aid. It is very hard for me to find truly Latex-free band-aids.

Did I say that you personally messed up by not checking the patient allergy list? NO!

I said I have had physicians have written orders multiple times for a drug I was allergic to, the hospital pharmacy messed up by dispensing it without checking the list, and the RN or Respiratory Therapist tried to give it to me again without checking the allergy list.

Only the fact I refuse to take any medicine without knowing exactly what it is, has prevented a severe allergic reaction from occurring.

Medicine is an error prone art, that can be very dangerous to patients if they do not watch out for errors. It gets to be a real challenge when multiple individuals drop the ball.

I just had my first injection in my eye for wet AMD on Friday, the retina physician, whom I had never seen before and was a stranger to me, said he was going to inject my left eye, which does not have wet AMD. It is my right eye that has wet AMD

I had to correct him before he made a huge mistake.

I swear, if you are not careful you can really suffer from medical care nowadays.

MedicalYeti

By the way, for someone with a Latex allergy, the Latex in the syringe can kill them. Are you stupid or just a very poorly trained medical personnel?

Just a few molecules of Latex can kill, especially if you inject it.

What’s up with Moscow Mitch? Mis-moult? Edgar suit going a bit off? People speculate blood thinners and/or iv/blood draw from the hands. You know who else gets blood thinners sometimes? People with coronavirus.

I’ve a friend who some years ago was on a blood thinner (stints in heart) and was bleeding so profusely after a scratch mowing the grass that a motorist stopped to ask if he was ok (he had not noticed; hot and sweaty, I guess). But I never noticed him to bruise up like that. Another older man does bruise like that but only after obvious bumps such as in automotive work.

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1318954641552334849

His lips are pursed here in this image showing bruising under eyeglasses pad but they are all purple also as can be seen in an image posted on DailyFail.co.uk

https://www.hitc.com/static/uploads/2020/10/GettyImages-1229188091.jpg

r/tooktoomuch

Nero/Caligula makes a move:

President Trump signed an executive order this week that could substantially expand his ability to hire and fire tens of thousands of federal workers during a second term, potentially allowing him to weed out what he sees as a “deep state” bureaucracy working to undermine him.
.
.
Mr. Trump’s new executive order would create a new class of federal worker, known as “Schedule F” employees, that would be made up of career staff members who are involved in “confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating” work.

This would most likely include the thousands of federal employees who write the regulations that translate federal laws into formal rules, as well as economists, scientists, lawyers and managers, according to labor lawyers who have examined the new order.
.
.
“This is a declaration of war on the career Civil Service,”…“It is an attempt to politicize the process and to hire cronies and fire enemies. It is really a 19th-century concept.”
.
.
“It’s a cheap ploy to let the Trump administration replace talent and acumen with fealty and self-dealing.”

https://www.nytimes.com./2020/10/22/us/politics/trump-executive-order-federal-workers.html

Fauchi should probably be considering a future in connesuir cannabis and mask fashion design and opening a boutique.

Tim

Is that Schedule F for “Fuckup”, like the Post Master General trump placed in position?

What an apropos name….Schedule F.

@ Athaic,

Say what? The black sugary drink is not going to work for nursing infants, or children with hyperemisis, or people with intestinal parasites & inflammation from bacteria/virus. How do you propose to keep someone hydrated who must remain NPO, for one of the many reasons patients must be NPO? How is a vaccine going to help?

Btw, that vaccine sucks. Rotavirus rarely is a problem in unvaccinated children after the age of 6. My only kid who kid got the vaccine (the others were either too old when it came out & two missed it during the recall) now gets rota every year (including last Christmas, at age 16, while we were stuck in a hotel out of town) while his older siblings who never had the vaccine, haven’t had rota since elementary school. Then again, he is a nonresponder like me but apparently he DID respond enough for it to jack up any typical immune response to it.

IV Fluids are one of the best medical interventions modern medicine has to offer. Probably even more so than even antibiotics or supplemental O2.

The measles vaccine wasn’t developed to lower childhood mortality. It was developed to be a convenience.

Bingo.

Missing the point and lying as usual.

Consider this answer to have been written by Joel and insert the usual expletives.

Addendum: re: NPO and diarrhea

When I was talking about using c***-cola in lieu of IV fluids, I meant as an injected substitute. Not as a drink.
The cola becomes the IV fluid. That’s why it was degassed before use. (1)

Reading comprehension, much?

(1) it’s not impossible my teacher was pulling our leg. Don’t try this home, folks.

There’s a Jackie Chan film where he makes an IV drip out of a coconut. Supposed to be a special forces survival thing. I think it was an unripe nut. Not sure if there was a ‘don’t try this at home’ addendum.

Athaic

Coca-c**a has a pH of 2.52!!!!!!!!

Only an idiot would give it via IV, the stuff would burn and collapse the veins. You would have to add something to raise the pH to 7 before it would be harmless, but the reaction with the phosphoric acid would make who knows what.

That person was pulling more than your leg, they were spreading dangerous information that can kill. Some idiot might try it and be in real trouble.

God, I am a Respiratory Therapist and know Coca-c**a is only good for cleaning your toilet due to it’s extremely low pH.

@Aelxa Where do you get all this shit ? Gastric acid has pH 1.5-3.5 and it is very acidic. Coca Cola does nor come even close.

@Aelxa I know full well you pick random junk from random websites. This is classical coke dissolves tooth hoax. Try little critical thinking. Gastric acid has pH 1.5-3.5. Is coke more acidic ? (You taste gastric acid if you have gastric reflux).

“You pick random junk from random websites”.
You poor little man, still can not look it up can you?

Here try reading this one…..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808596/

And if you do not believe that paper, why don’t you run a pH test on a coke and find out for yourself. pH strips are pretty cheap to purchase.

You can make anything palatable with enough sugar, little man. Come back after you do a pH test yourself.

Or better yet, do what we did as kids……put a rusty nail in a bottle of coke and watch it turn shiny in a day or two.

@Aelxa I am afraid that you cite a bad paper. Where would Coca Cola get its acid ?There is on only a minuscule amount of citric acid added.

Aarno

Coke does not contain “citric acid”.

I suggest you look at in the ingredient list on a Coca-c**a bottle. I have a glass bottle of Cokr right here……. Ingredients are carbonated water, cane sugar, caramel color, PHOSPHORIC ACID, natural flavors, and caffeine.

Phosphoric acid by itself has a pH of 2.14………

https://www.aqion.de/site/127

I suggest you do a pH test on Coke yourself since you have a problem with my links apparently, and stop insisting I am incorrect as I am quite correct. You can not even get the acid in Coke correct.

@Aelxa Citric acid comes from your previous link.
i suggest that you check what concentration means. Your link gives many pHs, depending on concentration. So you must know phosphoric acid concentration of Coke.

@Christine Kincaid If you think needles are bad why do you IV therapy is good ? It is much more invasive.
You children may have luck with rotavirus, other children may not. That’s why epidemiological studies are needed. Collect stories of all parents, not just antivax ones.
Measles vaccine is used to reduce mortality, and sequelae.

@ Aarno,

Why would I think needles are bad? They deliver life-saving treatments & fluids.

And no, actually; most children over the age of 6 do not have serious issues from rotavirus, not just mine. And my son does, although he is 16 but he unfortunately had the vaccine.

“The highest rates of illness occur among infants and children age 5. Adults can get rotavirus, though disease tends to be milder”
https://www.cdc.gov/rotavirus/clinical.html

Christine probably thinks every attack of diarrhea is due to rotavirus.

Or it’s another in her endless series of confabulations.

Oops!
An anti-vaccine promoter caught telling porkies to further her anti-vaccine agenda?
Who’d-a-thunk?
Being a dishonest disinformationalist is one of the prerequisites to anti-vax cult membership.

@ terrie,

You are right, I did say that. Rotavirus was not actually on the panel that was ran; I should have been more specific to say that he has zero antibodies to HepB, diptheria, tetanus, pertussis & measles. I think there were a few others but Rotavirus was not one of them

@Christine, not going to mention the part where you claimed he’d never had a VPD? Frankly, given your tendency to “misspeak” I don’t believe anything you claim.

@Aelxa It is the paper you cited that mentioned citric acid. Quite junky, then.
Do you know that is impossible to speak about pH of phosphoric acid ? You must mix in water, first. PH of phosphoric acid solution depends on concentration

Aarno

You have every excuse under the sun.

The paper was about the pH of various different sodas, some of which are a higher pH which use citric acid, which are the citrus flavored ones like 7UP.

Calling it a “junky paper” because you are unable to keep the different sodas separated in your mind with their specific ingredients…..shows your mind is filled with junk.

Have you tested the pH of a Coke yet? Of course not. You are a waste of time. So I am going to ignore you from now on, since you can not even understand papers written in as simple a manner as the one on sodas.

Have a nice life, I hope you finish school someday, and get to high school.

@Aelxa I can very well separate different soda. Question remains, what acid does Coke contain, and what is its concentration.
A parting insult ? You pick random junk from random websites.

Tim

That’s typical Trump supporter behavior, obnoxious and threatening. Add to it not wearing masks, because Trump made it a sign you are a Democrat, and you have a situation where someone can be likely assaulted by a mob of nuts.

It is no wonder the official removed him out of the crowd. I wonder if those people will ever regain their minds, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

I mean he was “asking for trouble” because he was just standing there in the proper area holding a Biden sign? Talk about a group of schoolyard bullies. That was the behavior of the Nazis back in the early 1930s, they intimidated and even beat people who were trying to vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/voting-in-the-midst-of-nazi-terror/a-16646980

Tim

Have you seen and read the Chatham House paper on trump’s handling of COVID-19?

It outlines his shutting down of the National Health Security and Biodefense Office in 2018, the office that dealt with severe deadly disease outbreaks like Ebola, and then in 2019 he shutdown the National Vaccine Program Office, the office that deals with collating side-effect records and examines if a vaccine presents a problem to national health.

He could not have done a better job in removing all the personnel who could handle an Epidemic, if he tried. He even removed the CDC from Wuhan China in 2019, which is new information for me.

He set us up for a PerfectStorm.The question is why did he do these things when the Obama Administration warned trump that a pandemic was expected during his term in office?

Was trump thinking if he got rid of the preparation for a pandemic, then one would not happen?

Famous image!
A few months ago, I met a guy from Vacaville. I remarked that I had been there and only saw a freeway and a shopping mall, no cows. Was it named after a cow?
“No”, he replied, “It was named after General Vaca- General Cow”

Maybe he took too many vaccines.

Anti-vaxxers – which I define as anyone who uses misinformation to create fear, uncertainty and doubt about any vaccines, even ones that don’t exist yet- have become more sophisticated in maligning vaccines but basically it boils down to-vaccines will transform you – it will make ‘perfect’ children “damaged” or dead. It will make healthy people, ill, disabled or ( see especially HPV) promiscuous- tainted in some way. Impure
Transhuman; changing DNA.” The light went out of his eyes”
.

Juan Manuel Cabeza de Vaca, famous historical figure. Descendant of Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca, an even more historical figure.

The Vaca name is pretty ubiquitous in New Mexico. If memory serves, Cabeza de Vaca held a 500,000 acre land grant from the King of Spain at one point…

Denice

I guess the members of the government of Japan are “antivaxxers” because they reject giving their citizens the HPV vaccine.

I guess if you reject eating beef, for whatever reason, you are a “anti-meater”, won’t eat celery you are an “anti-vegger”, won’t drink alcohol you are a “anti-fluider”, etc, etc, etc, ad nausem.

Your logic is screwed up.

And you can prevent Cervical Cancer by simply getting 11.5mg of Boron daily.

A study done in Turkey showed that women who got 11.5mg of Boron daily in their drinking water (the Boron is naturally present in the water and not added) had almost no cases of Cervical Cancer occur. In areas of Turkey where Boron was low in the water the Cervical Cancer rates were high.

Boron interferes with the replication of the HIV virus.

I prefer taking the Boron daily, especially since it likely interferes with the replication of other viruses.

You are such a Loyal Lemming. Hope they are paying you.

And yes, vaccines are a experiment on humans, in that they are preventing some people from dying who would have otherwise died, so those people get to live and pass on their genes. It might have been healthier for those genes to die out.

But it is all a philosophical question since we do not have a second Earth with people untainted with vaccines.

@Aelxa Perhaps you can give us a citation, or even clinical trial about boron and HPV. There are many clinical trials about vaccine and HPV.
It is you, who is a loyal lemming. You believe everything what a CAM practitioner says.

Aarno

Yes, I visit a Conventional American Medical (CAM) practitioner.

You know, it is amazing what you people assume. My medical physicians are regular, boring, and conventional run-of -the-mill M.D.s. Medicare and the VA does not pay for anything else.

And try looking this stuff up yourself, but since you are unable to, here…….

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/tox.20229&ved=2ahUKEwjwh6HOn9nsAhWjpFkKHd7xA-EQFjABegQIARAF&usg=AOvVaw0VUSj-xWs-A0o2p0S89fse

How hard is it to google “boron and HPV”?

@Aelxa How hard is to check ClinicalTrials.gov for clinical trials (ones t that have posted results)? Mercola certainly have enough money to run one for boron and cervical cancer.

Aarno

How the hell does Mercola enter this conversation??????

I give you a University Study done in Turkey and you bring up BS like Mercola. For the last time I DO NOT read alt-med websites, nor antivaxxer websites, nor that Kennedy person, etc.

And ClinicalStudies.gov does not contain every study done in the World. I find that website pretty useless, and get most information from the NIH website Pubmed.gov

Pubmed had this HPV and Boron article listed…..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/

But since it is an integrative medicine article, I went to the Turkish University study used in order to read the source material, so see the study I linked to in my previous comment, and actually read it without prejudgement.

I come to the conclusion you have a cerebral problem, and no link I provide will solve your problem whether it regards Coke, or HPV and Boron, or anything else. Because to be in the right, no matter what, is what you crave desperately at this point.

While I do not have an MD, I have spent the last 48 years reading medical books, papers and studies intensively. You do not need to go to medical school to learn medicine, just to practice it. I do not get my information from crank websites, or from any off-the-wall UTube videos, etc.

So quit with the Mercola et al nonsense, it will not stick no matter how hard you try to make it do so. And it is getting terribly boring, but keep grinding away at it as I am sure you will anyway.

How hard is it to google “boron and HPV”?

Not a clinical study.

There can be other reasons why differences occur in ecological studies.

@Aelxa Mercola is mentioned, because he sells boron.
Your paper is written by someone who has degree of master of divinity.
Borax is used as food additive, btw. It is one of Gardasil’s ingredient, too.

Aarno

You just can not get things correct, can you?

Gardisil contains SODIUM BORATE, a Boron molecule that is used as a pesticide.

It is like you thinking Coke contains citric acid , instead of the actual ingredient which is phosphoric acid.

I think you have a degree in garbage collecting, since all sorts of crap is what you have written so far.

Sodium borate is a pesticide…..

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-borax-where-to-get-608509

Since corporations put all sorts of crap in vaccines I am not surprised they put a pesticide in it, and while it contains boron atoms that molecule is not a safe source of boron for the human nutritional requirements.

Why don’t you take some organic chemistry courses and learn not to poison yourself with borax?

And quit with the Mercola nonsense, you are really going for the low hanging fruit and missing big time. Your fixation on me is just embarrassing yourself.

Aarno

And did you read what I wrote about that article, that is was published in an integrative medicine journal so I read the original medical study instead?

How cares what degree a person has who writes an article, if the article is a review of real medical studies? Anyone without a degree can collate, review and quote medical studies accurately. And she works as a Senior Medical Editor, her Masters in Art is likely in English.

She is not doing any medical research, just writing an article, about research that was done, for a Integrative Medicine Journal.

None of the facts in the article are incorrect, it does not take an MD to write that article. Your fruit is really hanging low there, buddy.

@Aelxa Do you know that boron is a metal? Are you eating metal ? You would consume soluble form of boron. Check your supplement, it may contain borate.
You may Google “supplement borate”. Many CAMs do sell borate

Bacon

Reintroducing the Smallpox vaccine is being discussed. With Global Warming frozen areas are releasing all sorts of viruses and bacteria……

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170504-there-are-diseases-hidden-in-ice-and-they-are-waking-up

The bigger problem is there are viruses and bacteria down deep that have not seen the light of day for a very long time, like hundreds of thousands of years.

For people who think Global Warming is no big deal, the viral and bacterial presents that will come out those frozen areas might kill us all.

It might be wiser for people to get off their butts and work harder to prevent the Total Meltdown coming real soon. At that point I do not think any vaccine will help.

But perhaps enough people will survive to keep the human race from going extinct.

Bacon

You might not be possessed by Satan, but you may be getting vaccines without knowing it……

https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/05/gmo-tomato-as-edible-covid-vaccine-mexican-scientists-work-to-make-it-a-reality/

It is amazing what they are doing, playing around with really strange ideas. They have used horses and monkeys to grow vaccines, now they are switching to tomatoes and other plants.

On one hand though, I would be more comfortable getting a vaccine using tomatos instead of human cells. Hope I does not turn me bright red.😡

DB,

"Christine probably thinks every attack of diarrhea is due to rotavirus."

Actually, “Christine” has worked through enough Rota outbreaks on a pediatrics ward to know Rota when she sees it. Or rather; smells it.

Like rotten pumpkins with a delicate hint of cedar, juniper, and pine? Kinda like someone shit a foamy Christmas tree? {asking for a cat}.

@ Reality,

I didn’t lie. Rotavirus was not on the panel. I should have said it differently though. Firstly, rotavirus isn’t a good example of a vpd because the vaccine doesn’t prevent it. Secondly, my son does get rota but it’s not one of the vpds tested for on the panel, that he’s never had, despite not having antibodies to.

Maybe no one ever told you this, but words have meaning and you don’t get to make up the meaning of you said after the fact. You said he’d never had any VPD. That was not true. Just like when you tried to claim he was “fully vaccinated,” you were forced to admit that wasn’t true either. You’re either lying deliberately, or you just sloppy because you don’t care about the truth. Either way, there’s a reason no one here believes your stories.

@ terrie,

forgive me for not finding that particular quote on a post with 322 comments but I believe I was talking about his results from the Immunologist & that he has zero antibodies left from his childhood immunizations, yet hasn’t had those vpd’s. That involves, you know; labs. And rota wasn’t one of them.

If it had been, it still wouldn’t have been relevant, because the point was that resistance is achieved on different pathways than just immunization & in the case of rota; that vaccine ruined his.

Again, you don’t get to make up meaning after the fact. You didn’t say he hadn’t had those VPDs, you said he’d never had any VPDs, which obviously you don’t believe. If you can’t keep track of the simple differences between “those VPDs” and “all VPDs” why would we believe your claim that he gets rotavirus because of the vaccine?

There is, of course, any number of clinical trials concerning rotavirus vaccines:
Kulkarni PS, Desai S, Tewari T, Kawade A, Goyal N, Garg BS, Kumar D, Kanungo S, Kamat V, Kang G, Bavdekar A, Babji S, Juvekar S, Manna B, Dutta S, Angurana R, Dewan D, Dharmadhikari A, Zade JK, Dhere RM, Fix A, Power M, Uprety V, Parulekar V, Cho I, Chandola TR, Kedia VK, Raut A, Flores J; SII BRV-PV author group. A randomized Phase III clinical trial to assess the efficacy of a bovine-human reassortant pentavalent rotavirus vaccine in Indian infants. Vaccine. 2017 Oct 27;35(45):6228-6237. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2017.09.014. Epub 2017 Sep 26. PMID: 28967523; PMCID: PMC5651219.
Immunity against disease does not depend on antibodies. It depends on immune memory cells. If I were your teacher, I would make you repeat this 500 times.

Aarno

Actually, if you want to nitpick, immunity depends on the bone marrow and thymus….

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/learn-immuno-oncology/the-immune-system/components-of-the-immune-system

Bone marrow is the primary source of all blood cells, including antibodies, B-cells which mature in the bone marrow, and T-cells that go to the thymus to mature.

Unfortunately, for us humans by age 65 the thymus has almost completely turned to fat, this is called thymus involution, and is unable to nurture T-cells to maturity.

Which is likely why those over 65 have the very, very high deathrates with COVID-19. The few pockets of active thymus get less and less every year. I loved A&P in school.

On second review of the Heilio article I thought they made a mistake in saying the all the body’s T-cells are produced by puberty, making it sound like the thymus was unneeded after that.

Sure enough, on double checking….

https://elifesciences.org/articles/26754

The memory T-cells live six months or less and the naive T-cells up to nine years.
Now this can explain why vaccine immunization weakens and needs boosters shots. But the question is….. Why do antibodies from natural infection with a disease like the Measles last a lifetime instead?

The memory T-cells produce the antibodies, and those memory T-cells disappear in six months, naive T-cells in nine years, where is the blueprint for anibodies from natural infection being stored?

@Aelxa Immunological memory depends on memory cells. Immature immune cells can become memory cells, but this is another matter.
About next sentence from your link:
“Thus, a long life is not a key characteristic of memory T cells. Instead, immunological memory, which can last for a lifetime (Crotty and Ahmed, 2004), is maintained by relatively short-lived cells.”
Thymus inversion starts very early, so it is not, as itself, a mark of immune problems.

Aarno

Since T-cells need to mature within the thymus, the steady involution ending around age 65 with a totally fat containing thymus, most definitely affects immunity severely in those 65 and older.

I would certainly call that “an immune problem” for older adults, especially in a COVID-19 Pandemic.

@Thymus could be removed from an adult, without adverse effects. This is done sometimes in the case of myasthenia gravis. Thymus involution starts at age 10.

Great, hospitals can do away with microbiology labs and tiresome, expensive cultures and assays – just rely on Christine’s nose for excreta.

This would seem like a solid* entry for CK’s Top Ten All-Time Dumbest Comments, but there’s just so much competition.

*sorry.

Bacon

People who work in hospitals can identify many diseases from smell.

For example, Diabetes smells like you have been chewing Juicy Fruit gum, pneumonia has a distinctive smell, as does Pseudomonas, and so does Cancer. You do not want to smell someone in Liver Failure, they smell like urine as the skin tries to take over the functions of the Liver and the stuff comes out their skin.

We wind up ordering tests to confirm what we see, hear and smell.

It is your comment that is very stupid since you seem to know nothing about working in a hospital.

Pneumonia ? Many pathogens can cause it, and there are even idiopathic form. Smelling pneumonia is not enough, you would like to know actual cause.

This is just so ridiculous. This is one of those stories brand new health care people tell their family at Thanksgiving “I could smell the gangrene in the hallway!”

Do certain conditions have characteristic odors? Yes. They’re neither sensitive nor specific. No one is trained to look for them or some kind of super-experienced practitioner because they “know” these. There is one thing you can usually smell in urine in a couple of very specific situations that I won’t go into because I’m not going to give you more nonsense to add to your arsenal.

I can’t believe how many people there are around who are happy to authoritatively state blatantly-false urban legends like this and then have the audacity to argue that someone “Doesn’t know how the hospital works” if they don’t agree. You are LYING. Get that? LYING. I can promise you that you have never spent ten seconds on rounds in a hospital because you would get laughed off the floor with your “I can smell it, can’t you?” bs.

MedicalYeti

Perhaps I was better trained then you.

I was taught Respiratory Therapy at a teaching hospital for a Philadelphia medical school. We went to autopsies, morbidity and mortality sessions, wrote 24 page papers using the hospital medicsl library, went on rounds with doctors, watch operations, etc.

And let me assure you we were taught to use our eyes, ears, and especially our noses. Doctors and instructors would emphasize smells, pointing out this is what Pseudomonas smells, this is what Diabetes smells like, etc.

Doing so helped pinpoint what tests might be needed to run to confirm what was seen, heard, and smelled. Lab tests were very expensive and took days to get back in the case of infections. Being able to make a initial determination of an organism would help initiate antibiotic use early.

This was in the early 1970s, today doctors operate differently. Though I can assure you, Oncologists are still very familiar with the smell of Cancer. But if you query an older doctor, say in their middle to late 60s, they will tell you smell was indeed emphasized in their training.

Aarno

And did I not write “We end up ordering tests to confirm….” ??????

What do you think that means??? It means we order tests to identify the organisms to positively confirm what is causing the pneumonia, and whatever else we smell that needs confirmation.

wrote 24 page papers using the hospital medicsl library

Oh, dear. Single-spaced or double? Does that include the references? Jesus, I wrote a 40-page paper about fucking scabs when I was a junior in high school.

Narad

Single-spaced typed since computers did not exist as a home device in 1973, as refences were extra.

I still have it in my file cabinet,would you like a copy?

The topic was blood transfusion and the new possibility of the development of artificial blood, and the use of hyperbaric chambers for patients who refuse blood transfusions.

Because they tested nurses, not because other health care practitioners couldn’t do the same thing. You also forget that this would be the #1 differential in that age group, presentation, and setting they looked at. I’m sure that has nothing to do with these being lucky guesses, eh?

Sorry, folks about not having written fresh material since Wednesday. Life happened again. I see that the cranks have taken over the comments. Aelxa, in particular, is flooding the comments with bullshit. This will be dealt with, and I’ll try hard to get something out tomorrow.

“This will be dealt with”

I should think you aren’t thinking of doing anything ‘unsavory’; but if you are, I know a guy. Gender-fluid really, idk we’ve never met face to face for obvious reasons.

Tim

I hope you tell it to be kind and painless, we always seemed to have had a bit of a sympatico rapport.

Orac

My comments are bullshit? Perhaps because they come with links that confirm what I write? How interesting.

I noticed you were not posting all my comments.

Orac

Well, I think you should have let the cockroach one go through.

The link led to an article where the owner claimed the medicine they made from cockroachs cured almost everything.

Talk about woo-woo stuff.

A random link does not confirm your statement. If that were true, my comments would be true, too. But your comment them.

“I’ll try hard to get something out tomorrow.”

If I were you, I’d just lie back and have a nap and not post anything while you’re so murdery and all.

Far beit from me to tell Orac what to write about but I’m really, really upset about the outbreak in Pence’s circle and THE HEAD OF THE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE flaunting all their own recommendations. Mark Meadows admitted they were gonna keep it a secret because personal privacy. Same as Trump kept it a secret until I Can’t Breath, imma goin’ to hospital. And I hope it gets a mention in whatever is written.

Cuomo nailed it with there is a much higher (disclosed, even) positivity rate in the WH than New York after all the bitching about “da democrat states, herp derp”.

Reconnected with an old friend in aerospace. Mention tRump is a sociopath, and his wifey immediately interjects to give me the what-for over “but socialism”. I guess I figured who wears the pants and monitors the phone conversation in that well-to-do household. She didn’t take kindly to my bashing of ULA and Boieng either (cost-plus. huhh. who would have thunk it??) I just fukkin’ drank myself to sleep after that convo.

It is quite a distinction when Orac himself refers to recent participants as “cranks”, even naming one of them and describing their contributions as “bullshit”. .

But I do enjoy how the regulars respond with data, quotes, snark and appropriate instruction to remedy the situation. I have additional suggestions:
as Chris often remarks, can anti-vaxxers find research that shows that a particular vaccine is more harmful than the illness it covers?
and my own: can anti-vaxxers point me to a real, accredited university that teaches courses that incorporate the ideas which they purvey?
They never can do that because these data and universities don’t exist.

in other words, they are basing their material on what Wikipedia calls “fringe”: they rely upon earlier cranks and tainted research or through misleading or dishonest representations of SB research. Orac has written many posts about how professional cranks proceed along these lines.

Then again, we could always discuss pets or cuisine.

Christine might want to reexamine that one paper she dredged up from 1987, that she thinks qualifies nurses to diagnose rotavirus infections by poop smell alone. A closer look at the data reveals the stench* of imprecision.

Beyond the fact that there was no mention of blinding in the “study”, there were a total of 26 culture-proven rotavirus cases in that small group of babies, of which 10 (38%) were called positive by the dutifully sniffing nurses.

That’s worse than flipping a coin. Hilariously, the paper’s author stated that the nurses’ accuracy might have been improved if they’d been privy** to the culture results at the time they did their smell tests.

Labrador retrievers probably could do a better job, seeing as dogs 1) have much better scent ability than humans, 2) love poop, and 3) have a track record, in that some evidence shows they’re not bad at detecting cancer cells in urine.

Any health practitioner who believes him/herself qualified to diagnose and treat diarrheic illness based on their nasal ability alone is likely at minimum to draw scrutiny of their crappy*** diagnostic skills from hospital oversight committees and/or state medical boards.

*sorry.
**Ibid.
***likewise.

–That looks like shit.
–Whew, that smells like shit.
–Yuck, that tastes like shit.

I’m sure glad I did not step in it.

“Did ye not of late Master Doctor, take of a prince’s excrement into your mouth to try the taste? Now I do say, I would sooner stand and wait for ten years than meddle with another man’s dung, yea, even though I was bidden to be seated on beds of roses.” To that he answered, “That I need not to have done, but did it willingly, that the prince might see how desperate anxious I was to understand his condition, and so my fee might be greater: and why should I not meddle with another’s dirt, that payeth me perhaps a hundred pistoles for it, and I pay him naught that must eat filth of another kind at my bidding? Ye talk of the thing like a German: and were ye not a German I had said, ye talk like a fool.”

@ DB,

You are being petty, because doctors hate to be told that anyone else besides another doctor, has medical knowledge that they don’t.

Rotavirus stool has a very unique & specific odor that any RN who has worked in pediatrics would recognize immediately. Only one other bug causes such an odor & that would be Norovirus, which was rarely diagnosed until the rotavirus vaccine was re-introduced.

The point of giving my source was not to “show an excellent study of detection rates of rota by smell” but to show prior acknowledgement that nurses are familiar with the unique odor of Rota.

Don’t take it so personally; you are not a Pediatrician. The pediatrician who does comment here wouldn’t validate me if you paid him, simply because I am an antivaxxer. Yay science.

No no no. Just no.

“Rotavirus stool has a very unique & specific odor that any RN who has worked in pediatrics would recognize immediately.”

Prove it or stop telling fairytales. You’re not talking to the uninformed masses on FB, here, who will assume you must be some medical know-it-all because you say so or argue over them. I’m betting you have a combined 100,000+ hours of experience on the units/wars/floors on this blog just with the people who comment, let alone those who don’t. Some of us, myself included, had to do a lot more dedicated pediatrics time than other docs. NO ONE uses smell to diagnose ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, EVER. Not in the real world. That plain enough for you?

“Norovirus, which was rarely diagnosed until the rotavirus vaccine was re-introduced”

The current rotavirus vaccine was introduced in 2006.

Norovirus is common in all parts of the world, developed and developing, at generally similar rates (~19%).

Most people are familiar with norovirus in association with cruise ships. In 2005 (before the rotavirus vaccine was introduced) there were 19 GI outbreaks on cruise ships large enough to be reported to the CDC. 14 of those were norovirus.

In 2019 there were 10 GI outbreaks on cruise ships reported to CDC. 8 of them were norovirus.

So, basically norovirus prevalence doesn’t seem to have any relationship with rotavirus prevalence.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#years

@MedicalYeti, I also notice she’s claiming nurses as a whole have this magical skill, while saying doctors here won’t because they didn’t work in pediatrics. I’m skeptical she ever worked in pediatrics as a nurse, because if she had, she’d never stop with the stories of patients she saw injured by vaccines.

@JustaTech, Did they give the rotavirus vaccine to older kids when it came out, as a “catch up”? It looks like it’s supposed to be given by age 8 months. Since Christine has stated her son is currently 16, he would have been ~2 years old at the time. So would he have even gotten the vaccine, or is this another of her “misspeaks”?

@ Terri: I have no idea if they did “catch up” with the rotavirus vaccine. I’m far too old to have ever gotten it, and since it’s usually not fatal in adults (due to large body volume I’d assume) it might not be worth the dose.

Terrie, like most anti-vaxxers, Christine Kincaid is also an obvious fantacist. Hence her difficulty in keeping her stories straight.

“No one uses smell to diagnosis ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, EVER.”

Well, here is a paper from VU University Medical Centre in Amsterdam, Netherlands that says you are quite incorrect…..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.njmonline.nl/getpdf.php%3Fid%3D1330&ved=2ahUKEwjygJPOwdPsAhWuTd8KHZZLCzAQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw22Esg2woGOCJ5EcdleyqzF

Under “Conclusion and Discussion” the first sentence reads ….

“Physicians have always used their sense of smell as a diagnostic tool, ….”

MedicalYeti: “NO ONE uses smell to diagnose”

My kid had rotavirus long before the vaccine. I also caught it trying to deal with the rivers of poo. Apparently there is no natural immunity to this thing, it is just grown-ups do not get dehydrated enough to screw up electrolytes and cause seizures. My toddler had a full blown (then called) grand mal seizure due to this.

The kid was transported to the emergency department at the local children’s hospital after I called 911. Later I was told by a neurologist there was a diarrheal disease that causes seizures. Later when I learned that there was a vaccine for such a disease, I guessed that is what my kid got.

All I remember were rivers of poo. No combination of plastic/cloth/diaper cover could contain it. On the Bristol scale it was Type 7 on with maximum volume! There was no distinct smell other than the massive frustration in trying to keep the kid hydrated while dealing with the stuff myself.

@ Medical Yeti,

"NO ONE uses smell to diagnose"

I didn’t say that’s how we diagnosed them. RN’s don’t actually diagnose anybody. RN’s on a pediatric floor know if a child has rota before the labs come back because we know the smell.

A. Not anymore, likely, since thanks to vaccines hospitalizations from rotavirus – which used to be in the tens of thousands – are rare. I expect people who are not anti-vaccine would value that.
B. Note that you ignored Dangerous Bacon’s points, which are that the study does not show that nurses can identify rotavirus, at least, not more accurately than a coin-toss.

NumberWang

Forced and coerced sterilizations exist in Africa…….

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/dozens-hiv-positive-african-women-forcibly-sterilized-69198404

And in India they started with men in 1976 and sterilized 6.2 million men that year. Now they sterilize the women instead….

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/legacy-indias-quest-sterilize-millions-men

If you look you will find this has been going on all over the world since the 1970s when the World population was getting too high. It has been reported constantly, not a decade has gone by without another report of forced or coerced sterilizations. It was very popular in China while they had their One Child policy.

So NOT a grand secret plan by the West to steal resources or reduce the world population then. I can’t help thinking that you are shifting the goal posts.

NumberWang

You are confusing Kristine and me, it was Kristine that wrote it was to get resources.

I am merely pointing out to you the forced and coerced sterilizations have happened forever, since you claimed no such thing ever happened.

Forced sterilizations are a American tradition, too…….

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/amp/

This has been going on for over 100 years in the US. Did you not learn about it in US History? I did. They sterilized Native Americans, Blacks, the handicapped, disabled, mentally impaired, immigrants, etc. And it is still going on in the USA…….

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-detention-and-coerced-sterilization-history-tragically-repeats-itself/

Aaron

What in the World do you mean by “West”?
I was pointing out to NumberWang that forced sterilizations really existed, when he wrote it was a lie and no forced sterilizations ever happened.

By West, do you mean Western Civilizations like Europe? Well, it still goes on in Europe, too…….

https://www.inclusion-europe.eu/forced-sterilisation-of-women-and-girls-in-europe/

https://www.hhrjournal.org/2017/12/intersectional-discrimination-of-romani-women-forcibly-sterilized-in-the-former-czechoslovakia-and-czech-republic/

@Aelxa This thread started with argument that population control agenda is instituted by West to rob Africa’s natural resources. Your links are irrelevant to this argument. Actually overpopulation would be better here. More people, more unemployment, lower wages.

That’s the same crappy 1987 study that Christine posted, with flaws you are not addressing.

If one ignores its defects, the best one could say is that the (grand total of 7) nurses were OK at determining /guessing when diarrheic poop wasn’t rotavirus-induced, but performed dismally at identifying when it was the actual cause of diarrhea.

Bacon

Abysmal at identifying the rotavirus?

Try looking at the table again. There were 15 samples that contained rotavirus, and the nurses identified 10 of them correctly as being rotavirus. That is pretty damn good for stale feces samples collected hours before on a different shift. Chance is only 50/50.

Also note that 10 babies had rotavirus, HOWEVER two of those ten had rotavirus plus either E.Coli or gastric adenovirus. The addition of the other infections will change the smell also.

They should have separated the feces with multiple infections, to determine if they interfered with the identification of rotavirus. I believe that was the factor that made the nurses less able to identify rotavirus.

There were a total of 68 samples, and the nurses identified 47 of them correctly.

The comment by the doctor of telling the nurses the correct answer and asking them if they wanted to change their minds? Just stupid, but..( insert remark about doctors here). I have heard physicians say much more derogatory remarks about nurses than that, some of them are masters of the backhanded compliment.

The ability of the nurses to determine rotavirus positive or negative was statistically significant.

They should have smelled fresh feces before lab identification, and seperated rota only from multiple infections samples. The critic can go further but I think what I wrote is sufficient.

Abysmal accurately describes the ability of those few nurses to detect rotavirus-induced stools, since the sensitivity reported in the paper was 38%.

In other words, they failed to sniff out rotavirus the great majority of the time, in patients with rotavirus-positive stool.

That’s exactly what you don’t want in a screening test.

Even if you bought the “69% correct classification” number, that would mean Christine has been misdiagnosing her son almost a third of the time.*

Docs now have access to good lab tests (not to mention vaccines). They don’t have to rely on sniff tests of sick babies’ stools.

*if she qualifies as an “experienced” nurse, something subject to legitimate doubt.
**maybe there’s a 1950 paper out there claiming that nurses can almost semi-accurately diagnose children’s diabetes by tasting their urine, like they did in Hippocrates’ day. Hooray, start ’em on insulin, no blood tests required.

Bacon

Obviously, there was a math mistake made as getting 47 out of 68 samples correct is NOT a 38% sensitivity.

Sniffing out 10 cases of active Rotavirus in 15 cases is not “failing to sniff out Rotavirus the majority of the time”. They failed in only 5 cases of Rotavirus to determine it was present. They were accurate 66% of the time. Do you have a math problem figuring that out?

Since when is a 33% failure rate “the majority of the time”???????

And your taking a dig at Kristine, in a comment to me, is your usual nasty bullying.

The point is that nurses are able to smell disease which no new ability, it is historical fact and has be used to diagnosis disease until very recent times.

And I know doctors who still use it, as you can not avoid using all your senses in deciding a preliminary patient diagnosis, and then writing orders for tests, including lab work.

Okay DB, you entertain your thoughts on your medical knowledge prowess & I will entertain imagining how many eye rolls your statements would conjure from the nurses, after making those statements at the nurses station & departing after your rounds

Wow. Adrenochrome. Hunter Thompson talked about adrenochrome back in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Made quite a joke out of it, considering that the book was all dark humor. It’s weird that some crazy cult treats it as something serious.

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