Although I’ve mentioned Dr. Robert Malone, self-proclaimed “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” a few times on this blog, I realized this week to my surprise that I had only written one post featuring him as the primary topic. That was in July, and at the time Dr. Malone was whining that Wikipedia was “erasing him” because edits had been made to the Wikipedia entry about mRNA vaccines so that it no longer featured him as a prominent figure in the history of this new technology. In reality, as I described, part of what had happened is that his wife Dr. Jill Glasspool Malone, using the ‘nym Glasspool1, had been editing the entry on mRNA vaccines to feature her husband as the “inventor of mRNA vaccines.” Basically, Wikipedia’s editors appropriately and quickly shut that nonsense down right away, as well they should have. More recently, Dr. Malone has been assisting the antivaccine movement targeting Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn with disinformation, as well as promoting the conspiracy theory that Pfizer’s recently FDA-approved mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine Comirnaty is not the same as the vaccine that it had been distributing under an emergency use authorization before. (It is.)
The reason this issue came up derives from—surprise, surprise!—a Tweet I did almost a week ago. In it, I quote-Tweeted a podcaster and rapper named Zuby, sarcastically debunking COVID-19 conspiracy nonsense about the vaccines. As a result, I started getting a lot of responses like this:
Whenever someone “challenges” me like this, I almost always respond, “Be careful what you wish for.” So I’ll answer right now: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, although he clearly has an MD and did do some interesting work getting mRNA into cells to express proteins decades ago, I do question his qualifications these days. Even if he’s “qualified,” qualifications alone are not enough, particularly if you use them in the service of spreading disinformation, which Malone undoubtedly is.
Apparently Dr. Malone had been busy, and I hadn’t noticed. I soon found out that a “statement” of his had gone viral:
And here is Dr. Malone reading his prepared text, which has been circulating around social media and can be found at this link:
Meanwhile, yesterday Dr. Malone was prominently featured on the website of one of the “Disinformation Dozen,” Joe Mercola, a quack who’s been a frequent topic on this blog for his promotion of all manner of quackery and, since the pandemic hit, COVID-19 misinformation in an article called Scientific Journal Censorship With Dr. Malone. You might recall that in a stunt that allows him to portray himself as “persecuted,” Mercola erased all the previous content from his website and now only leaves his articles live for 48 hours, which means that this article will go away by tomorrow. Good thing I saved all the text and will quote liberally as needed. In any event, I guess that, apparently not satisfied with painting himself as a victim of “censorship” by Wikipedia, Malone is now crying “Censorship!” about scientific journals.
Further down the antivax rabbit hole goes “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Dr. Malone!
What interested me is how further down the antivax rabbit hole Dr. Malone has gone since last I wrote about him. Whenever one discusses Dr. Malone, though, it’s hard not to wonder about him. He claims to have invented mRNA vaccines, but he is now portraying COVID-19 vaccines based on a technology that encapsulates them in lipid nanoparticles as horrifically dangerous and potentially deadly, which makes me wonder: How, as “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” would Malone have designed the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines differently? Or is this just sour grapes based on the fact that two vaccines based on science that Malone had an early role developing over three decades ago has done so much good and he feels slighted because he hasn’t been acknowledged? (Never mind that the pathway from his observations to safe and effective vaccines had so many steps between it that for him to call himself the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” is ludicrous in the extreme.)
Even though Malone has been spreading some antivax tropes about COVID-19 vaccines, I don’t recall his ever having gone so all-in that he produced a brief statement with more antivax disinformation in a more compact form than I recall ever having seen from him. I also love how Malone starts with that favorite of all antivax disclaimers, the “I’m not antivax” trope:
My name is Robert Malone, and I am speaking to you as a parent, grandparent, physician and scientist. I don’t usually read from a prepared speech, but this is so important that I wanted to make sure that I get every single word and scientific fact correct.
I stand by this statement with a career dedicated to vaccine research and development. I’m vaccinated for COVID and I’m generally pro-vaccination. I have devoted my entire career to developing safe and effective ways to prevent and treat infectious diseases.
Before you inject your child – a decision that is irreversible – I wanted to let you know the scientific facts about this genetic vaccine, which is based on the mRNA vaccine technology I created…
This would sound so very, very reasonable were it not for what follows, namely pretty much every variety of antivaccine claim that you can think of about COVID-19 vaccines, many of which I’ve written about on multiple occasions. Whenever I see this bit about supposedly not being antivaccine and how an antivaxxer making that claim has been vaccinated, I say: So what? Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., for instance, frequently claims to be “fiercely pro-vaccine” and points to his having vaccinated his children according to CDC guidelines as proof. The problem, in his case is that his youngest child would thus have been fully vaccinated before he had learned of the antivaccine claim that the mercury in the thimerosal preservative that was used in some childhood vaccines until around 2001 was a major cause of the “autism epidemic.” That’s why I always ask: What happened between then and your turn to the Dark Side? In RFK Jr.’s case, something happened between his last child and around 2005, when he made his first big antivax splash by publishing his conspiracy mongering article Deadly Immunity. With Malone, one wonders if, having expressed his sour grapes about mRNA vaccines and finding that he had become culturally relevant and famous in a way that he had never achieved before and can probably never achieve in any other way, he just kept going further and further into conspiracytown about COVID-19 and mRNA vaccines.
Whatever the reason, Malone is indisputably antivax right now. Just take a look at more of the statement, starting with the “three issues parents need to understand.” Here’s issue one:
The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children’s cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins. These proteins often cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs, including
- Their brain and nervous system
- Their heart and blood vessels, including blood clots
- Their reproductive system
- And this vaccine can trigger fundamental changes to their immune system
To which he adds:
The most alarming point about this is that once these damages have occurred, they are irreparable
- You can’t fix the lesions within their brain
- You can’t repair heart tissue scarring
- You can’t repair a genetically reset immune system, and
- This vaccine can cause reproductive damage that could affect future generations of your family
That part about the vaccine “triggering fundamental changes to their immune system” is, of course, true in that the vaccine will trigger immunity to COVID-19, including the development of antibody-producing cells and memory cells that can respond when the immune system encountered the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (which is used as the antigen) again. That’s how all vaccines work. In fact, that’s how “natural immunity” works as well. I’ll go beyond that and say that that’s how the immune system in general works. It’s also most assuredly a good thing, not the scary thing that Malone is trying to portray (“genetically reset immune system” that, I note, does not require “repair”). Think of it this way. If encounters with antigens associated with diseases didn’t produce long-lasting or permanent changes in the immune system, then long-lasting (or lifelong) immunity would be impossible. If the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone doesn’t know that, then he’s definitely not qualified, and if he does know that he’s a liar.
Nor do the vaccines cause “reproductive damage.” This particular trope is a very old trope that has been used against vaccines ever since I started paying attention to the antivaccine movement. So of course this piece of misinformation was resurrected for COVID-19 vaccines—and with astonishing speed, having appeared as early as when the vaccines were first rolling out a year ago. It’s all of a piece with the long history of antivaxxers portraying vaccines as “sterilizing our womenfolk.” Examples abound from around the world, for example, from the conspiracy theory promoted by Catholic bishops in Kenya that the tetanus vaccine is “racist population control” and that the false claim in Africa and the Philippines (among other places) that the polio vaccine can impair female fertility, while in some Muslim countries the campaign to eradicate polio has long been plagued by conspiracy theories that claim that the polio vaccine is laced with anti-fertility chemicals that would render their girls sterile before they even became women (and/or can also infect them with HIV) as part of a plot to depopulate the developing world. Unsurprisingly, the vaccine most commonly falsely cited by antivaxxers as causing female infertility is the HPV vaccine, particularly Gardasil, which is blamed without evidence for premature ovarian failure, usually based on some hand waving misunderstanding of immunology attributing this “effect” to some vaguely defined autoimmune phenomenon. This claim that a specific vaccine (or vaccines) can cause infertility is what I like to refer to as a “slasher” lie, because, like the killers in 1980s slasher movies, who appear to have been finally killed at the end of one installment, these lies always manage to somehow survive to kill more teenagers in the next movie. So of course, Malone is parroting it.
As for the issue with myocarditis, there does appear to be an increased risk of myocarditis associated with mRNA vaccines, particularly in teenaged boys, but the cases have been nearly uniformly mild, and the risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 is a lot higher, as a pediatric cardiologist will tell you. Then there’s Malone’s claim that the spike protein from vaccines somehow damages the brain and neurological system. Try as I might, I couldn’t find what the heck he was talking about; that is, unless he’s parroting the ridiculous and easily refuted claim that COVID-19 vaccines induce Alzheimer’s disease or prion diseases like Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease which they do not. Even if the fear mongering about “prion domains” in the spike protein were clinically relevant, one simply has to point out that the amount of spike protein that gets into the bloodstream is infinitesimal compared to the huge amount that gets into the bloodstream in the event of infection. So, even if Malone’s claim were true, getting vaccinated would still be far, far less dangerous than getting COVID-19. (Also, the claim that vaccines cause prion disease is another old antivax trope!)
Next up:
The second thing you need to know about is the fact that this novel technology has not been adequately tested.
- We need at least 5 years of testing/research before we can really understand the risks
- Harms and risks from new medicines often become revealed many years later
Ask yourself if you want your own child to be part of the most radical medical experiment in human history.
Of course, mRNA vaccines (and adenovirus-based vaccines like the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine) have been in development for decades. Indeed, it’s been speculated that if the pandemic had hit five years ago, the technology wouldn’t have been ready. More importantly, the concern about “long term” harms from vaccines is a dubious claim beloved of antivaxxers going back decades, when the “long term” harms falsely attributed to the vaccines were autism, cancer, and autoimmune disease. In fact, examples of any sort of harm caused by vaccines that wasn’t discovered early are quite rare, as I discussed when Paul Thacker brought up the same concern. Basically, adverse events from vaccines almost always manifest themselves early, not many months or years later, which is why we can be very confident that, unlike the case with COVID-19 itself, massive long term health problems due to the vaccine are highly unlikely. That doesn’t stop Malone from parroting another favorite antivax lie about COVID-19 vaccines, namely that it’s all a big experiment, which is a lie that antivaxxers have been parroting about vaccines in general and the childhood vaccination schedule since long before I ever paid attention.
This all leads Malone to his third and final point:
One final point: the reason they’re giving you to vaccinate your child is a lie.
- Your children represent no danger to their parents or grandparents
- It’s actually the opposite. Their immunity, after getting COVID, is critical to save your family if not the world from this disease
In summary: there is no benefit for your children or your family to be vaccinating your children against the small risks of the virus, given the known health risks of the vaccine that as a parent, you and your children may have to live with for the rest of their lives.
The risk/benefit analysis isn’t even close.
As a parent and grandparent, my recommendation to you is to resist and fight to protect your children.
This is, once again, more antivaccine misinformation. First, anyone who can transmit an infectious disease, whether the disease makes that particular person (in this case a child) really sick or not, is a danger to susceptible people who can catch the disease and become very ill (or even die) from it, such as older people like grandparents. The second point seems to be an echo of the Great Barrington Declaration nonsense about letting COVID-19 rip through populations who are less likely to become ill from it in order to achieve “natural herd immunity.” Unfortunately, “natural herd immunity” requires that a very large proportion of the population catch the virus, putting them at risk for serious disease and potentially death. As I’ve said time and time again, that’s basically just eugenics. In fact, Malone is even worse than the Great Barrington Declaration in that he doesn’t even mention “focused protection” of those at risk for serious disease and death. While it’s true that, before vaccines, it was impossible to protect such people while such a disease is spreading widely through the population, given that vaccines are not 100% effective and the new Omicron variant clearly has significant resistance to both “natural” and vaccine-induced immunity, I can only ask: WTF was Malone thinking here?
As for the risk-benefit ratio for the vaccine being too poor to justify its use in children, that’s simply not true. The vaccine is very safe, and, although children are at much lower risk of severe disease, hospitalization, and death due to COVID-19, the risk-benefit ratio for the vaccine is still very favorable. Malone is peddling antivaccine disinformation again.
Ivermectin, conspiracies, and persecution
Unsurprisingly, “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Dr. Malone is peddling a persecution narrative again. As with the case of his conspiracy mongering about being “erased” from Wikipedia, he’s confusing quality control and peer review for “censorship”:
Her second interview with Malone is above. You can now hear some of the points that have been censored, starting with scientific censorship at medical journals. Malone has had multiple peer-reviewed papers seeking to repurpose existing medications as COVID-19 treatments blocked from publication by journals.
In one example, Malone and colleagues found that combined treatment with celecoxib, a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug, and high-dose famotidine, a heartburn drug sold under the brand name Pepcid, led to improved outcomes among COVID-19 patients, including 100% survival.3 It’s been repeatedly rejected for publication.
Malone was also a former guest editor of a special issue of Frontiers in Pharmacology, which published an abstract of a peer-reviewed study by Pierre Kory on ivermectin for COVID-19 — until it was pulled due to a third-party complaint, with no chance for resubmission.
“That was completely inexplicable,” Malone said. “Some third party complained to Frontiers and successfully had that pulled, even though it had passed peer review with an expert panel of peer reviewers including senior reviewers from the FDA.”4
Again, ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine in that it is a repurposed drug that COVID-19 contrarians and antivaxxers have latched onto as a “miracle cure” for COVID-19 even though the evidence now clearly shows that it almost certainly does not work, with all the large “positive” studies having been shown to be either highly dubious or outright fraudulent. It’s not surprising that “mRNA vaccine inventor” Robert Malone would be attracted to it.
In any event, here’s a report on what really happened:
The editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology have taken down an article about the use of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin in COVID-19 patients. The paper, which was written by members of an organization called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), had been provisionally accepted and posted in abstract form by the journal in January, but was ultimately rejected this Monday (March 1). The editors determined that it contained unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal’s editorial policies.
By the end of last week, the abstract had been viewed more than 85,000 times, according to snapshots available on the internet archive.
A special issue of Frontiers in Pharmacology on repurposing existing drugs as COVID-19 treatments has been axed following a dispute between the journal’s publisher and the issue’s guest editors over which submissions should be accepted.
The dissolution of the issue, which was entitled “Treating COVID-19 with Currently Available Drugs,” is the latest move in a row that’s continued for weeks. At the beginning of March, Frontiers issued a rejection for a manuscript on the antiparasitic drug ivermectin that had been provisionally accepted, after the publisher identified “a series of strong, unsupported claims” in the paper and determined that it did “not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution,” Frontiers’s chief executive editor Frederick Fenter said in a statement at the time.
So Malone invited Pierre Kory of the conspiracy mongering quack group Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC)? That fits. In fact, what I’d argue is that this doesn’t represent “censorship,” but rather a massive failure on the part of the editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology that, when their special issue blew up in their faces in a most humiliating fashion (as anyone with any knowledge of Malone or Kory could have told them that it would), they frantically tried to course-correct and salvage something.
Moving on, I was curious about this; so I looked up Malone’s study on celecoxib and high-dose famotidine, cited by Mercola, which is still up as a pre-print at SSRN. It’s from July 2020 and is very unimpressive, a consecutive case series of 25 COVID-19 hospitalized patients treated with celecoxib and high dose famotidine as adjuvant therapy. Malone concluded that “combined treatment with oral celecoxib and HD famotidine in an adjuvant setting was associated with 100% survival and improved radiographic outcomes, as well as statistically significant improvements in clinical, biomarker, and renal function measurements.” The problem, of course, is that he can’t know that, given that there was no control group (using data from another source as controls doesn’t cut it) and this was a very small case series to make any firm conclusions about, particularly since all the patients also received standard-of-care at the time in addition to Malone’s drug cocktail. (In fairness, I will concede that there were modestly interesting correlative measures studied.)
To be honest, I’m surprised that this study wasn’t published back in July 2020, given that I saw a lot of other really crappy papers like this published back then, but I can definitely say one thing. While this sort of thrown-together case series might have cut it in the very early days of the pandemic, it doesn’t cut it now. Not by a long shot. It also makes me wonder which journals Malone has been submitting this manuscript to.
The ivermectin paper was officially rejected on March 1. Frontiers removed the paper’s abstract from the website, and Fenter and colleagues began an audit of other papers in the issue. By then, one of Malone’s papers, a discussion of the possible mechanisms of famotidine against COVID-19, had been accepted. (It was published on March 23.)
On March 11, another paper coauthored by Malone—which reported a case series of 25 patients treated at a community hospital with a combination of famotidine and the anti-inflammatory drug celecoxib and had not been provisionally accepted—was rejected at the post-review stage. The primary reason was that uncontrolled case studies of patients can’t provide new or meaningful insights into a drug’s effects in COVID-19, particularly since those patients were also receiving other drugs such as vitamin C in addition to famotidine and celecoxib, according to an email explaining the decision sent to the authors by one of Frontiers in Pharmacology’s chief editors.
Again, it’s a crappy case series, but a lot of crappy case series on COVID-19 therapeutics were published in the spring and summer of 2020. It amuses me that this one happened to be one that peer review actually appropriately triaged.
I’ll conclude by quoting Malone one more time to show just how unhinged he’s become:
If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.
Blackrock and Vanguard hold large interests in pivotal companies, and Vanguard holds a large share of Blackrock. In turn, Blackrock has been called the “fourth branch of government” by Bloomberg as they are the only private firm that has financial agreements to lend money to the central banking system.13
Aside from world media, the companies controlled by Blackrock and Vanguard span everything from entertainment and airlines to social media and communications. “We’re experiencing a threat of global slavery of the entire population to these financial interests,” Malone said.
And, of course, Malone believes we’re all a victim of a “mass psychosis,” quoted here by Mercola:
The governments, out of desperation, are flailing around. That’s what’s really happening is they don’t understand it. They don’t. They think that they have no other options. They are hypnotized into believing that the vaccines work. They’ve been bombarded by all this lobbying and information control and everything else to believe that the vaccines are effective.
Even though we know they aren’t, the data show that they aren’t, it doesn’t matter. You can’t penetrate through them. Why? Because they’ve undergone mass psychosis … the politicians have, they believe that this is the case and they believe that they have to do these [authoritarian] measures because there’s no other option than mass vaccination.
I like to say that all quackery eventually leads to antivax. I’ve said it time and time again, and, if anything, the COVID-19 pandemic has confirmed this adage. However, there’s another adage. I’ve argued that all science denial is rooted in conspiracy theory and that, in particular, denial of the efficacy and safety of vaccines demonstrates that adage better than almost any other. I’ll now add to that another observation. The longer one immerses oneself in antivax conspiracy mongering, the farther and farther from reality one drifts—and the deeper and deeper into a wider variety of conspiracy theories, too. The “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” Dr. Robert Malone, is a perfect example of this. Whatever first unmoored him from reality with respect to COVID-19 vaccines set him on a path to embracing all manner of conspiracy theories and projecting his own detachment from reality about vaccines and COVID-19 onto everyone else, particularly those trying to counter his misinformation.
1,060 replies on “Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist”
Is it possible to believe in the safety and efficacy of vaccines such as MMR, Tdap, polio, and their ilk, and yet have serious concerns with the safety and/or efficacy of the relatively untested (by comparison) mRNA vaccines?
Yes, but that’s clearly NOT what Dr. Malone and his fellow COVID-19 antivaxxers are doing. Attributing medical complications to the vaccine that are clearly not due to the vaccine is one “tell.” Another “tell” is his persecution complex. The biggest “tell,” though, is his roping common conspiracy theories about other things into his conspiracy theories about vaccines, plus his projection that governments and pro-vaccine advocates are a victim of a “mass psychosis.”
I think that you should slither back under your Marxist rock now, comrade.
“Marxist”? You are very silly.
Wait… this is already your “rock.”
Do you hold a medical degree or have experience creating vaccines, or experience in epidemiology in any way?
(Staying at a holiday Inn express last night doesn’t count.)
Yes, he has a medical degree. Here are his credentials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gorski
Where are yours?
@Thanks All post graduate degrees are based on undergraduate accreditation. Medical doctors are required to have a Bachelor of Science, per AMA regulations.
When people have a BA standard of education, they tend to use sophistry. After all they have poor concept of objective information, as arts degrees are based on group think consensus.
Opinion nor consensus are true. Yet most members of the (state) BAR hold a BA. They’ve been conning the world by sophistry, using terms like law.
Law is from the Latin for ‘Ultimate’ or highest truth.
It’s used in science to describe thing that are 100% repeatable, such as math and physics.
The legal system was created for the Corona/Crown by Roman Catholic church as a means of justifying witch trials. Trials used to protect the pederast, and VD spreading degenerates.
Successful BA holder must resort to sophistry, as their group think consensus is based on subjective opinions. The always use the term understand, to stand under, as comprehension requires knowledge of the objective.
The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time.
Okay Orac, please provide links to the databases, or agencies, that are compiling hard evidence regarding vaccine reactions…in other words, please prove your assertion that Malone is citing cases of problems that are proven unrelated to vaccine complications….you are about as transparent as Malone, CDC, McCollugh, etc…you make sweeping assertions, offer zero sources or references, and expect people to believe you because of your credentials. Credentials != Credible
Sure. Here you go:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/cisa/
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/workshops-meetings-conferences-biologics/public-workshop-sentinel-post-licensure-rapid-immunization-safety-monitoring-prism-system
And, of course, there’s VAERS, which was never intended to provide an accurate estimate of the incidence of adverse events after vaccination, but rather to be a hypothesis-generating system whose hypotheses then go on to be tested by these other system, particularly the VSD.
Orac, I appreciate the links you provided in response to my request for links to the databases, or agencies, that are compiling hard evidence regarding vaccine reactions.
I asked for those links in the context of Malone, and how such links would support your assertion that Malone is conflating vaccine reactions with unrelated medical issues.
You failed in supporting your assertions, as the links you sent provide no such evidence.
Btw, those agencies you sent links to are completely and totally inadequate to track data specific to the mass immunization campaign of covid–and I believe you know that is true.
Those programs all pre-date covid by years if not decades, and they are designed to track data for multiple medical conditions and purposes–they are not designed with the covid mass immunization program in mind.
Those programs are also specific to a handful of reporting institutions–and that handful in no way represents the myriad number of doctors, pharmacies, medical groups and hospitals that are administering the covid vaccine. It is self evident that the agencies you sent links are not capturing any where near the full data picture of the covid immunization.
Plus, in order to report on the systems associated with the links you sent, the reporting organization needs to have its data systems able to communicated with the the agency collecting the data–which is likely why only a handful of medical systems are reporting into these agencies.
In short, you failed to prove anything about Malone. And, your links prove exactly Malone’s point that data does not exist, and is not being collected in a meaningful AND ACCESSIBLE way, such that the public can draw any conclusions.
I know that VAERS is inadequate. I know nothing of the sort about these other systems.
And now begins the goalpost moving. You asked for systems. I linked to systems. You tried to ignore that at first, but, now that you can’t, are claiming without basis or evidence that these systems are inadequate and saying you’ll only be satisfied by a very narrow, specific system. Very predictable. Yawn.
No. I’m not even going to bother with the rest.
The only thing that’s funner than “proof by etymology” is “proof by made-up etymology”.
Anti-vaxxer? How do you call the inventor behind the MRNA that? Especially one who hit double jabbed? Enjoy your slow painful vaxxed death demon.
You seem nice.?
@ rushr7
“Enjoy your slow painful vaxxed death demon.”
Aaaaaaarrrrrrghhh! I’m dying !! I’m dying !! I’m dying !!!
Pfffffffff…. Hilarious….
If only it was that easy to die…
Psychosis: radical changes in personality, impaired functioning, and a distorted or nonexistent sense of objective reality.
What does so-called “mass psychosis” look like?
Is accusing a supporter of vaccination of being demonic, a psychotic reaction?
Is accusing an opponent of vaccination of being a bio-terrorist, a psychotic reaction?
Is buying & wearing a PPE mask, clearly labelled on the packaging when sold as having no medical or health benefits to the wearer, and offering no protection from respiratory viruses, a psychotic behavior?
Is manufacturing of psychosis an endgame in an environment of hyper-polarization, where we have supposedly demons vs bio-terrorists?
Manufactured mass psychosis has been a social control tool used via despotic media totalitarianist regimes in the early part of the 20th C.
Are the people who see parallels between those times and today, psychotic?
What is “gray-area, hybrid warfare”?
What is “mass formation”?
(You could win a carrot, if you can effectively answer all these questions)
@Cthulhu I really want to see a mask package claiming that it is useless. I guess that you should pick a better one.
@Aarno
https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/reusable-printed-fabric-face-cover-pink-stars-3659445
This isn’t the exact one I saw but is something very similar.
Note the website blurb states “Not for medical or surgical use”
It only shows the front of the package – but I feel sure that if the rear was displayed it would have fine print saying something like “The use of this mask implies no medical or health benefits to the wearer and will not prevent the transmission of respiratory viruses” which is what the mask packaging I saw had on it.
Note: There is no PPE manufacturing standard quoted for this item.
This is how I know the whole mask thing is entirely theatrical.
I have a friend who procures PPE for workers using high-pressure water hoses to clean oil-based paints and inks off surfaces. He told me the most important factor with any PPE is to have a clear explanation of exactly what the PPE protects the user against – and what it doesn’t protect against. And a manufacturing standard to prove it.
Where a social requirement for a face covering is stipulated, I feel sure the useless cloth mask would be considered acceptable – even though it is completely useless. People without masks have been harassed for their lack of compliance, but has a mask wearer ever had their mask inspected to see if it performs any useful function at all?
Never.
Would a supermarket security guard etc, have the slightest idea what the term “N95” means – or how to identify a mask made to that specification?
Nope.
“Choose a better one” What does that mean to the average person who has no concept of PPE specs? My wife would choose one that cost a bit more because it had some glittery sequins sewn on the front. Much better, you see?
The whole mask thing is theatre.
@Cthulhu Mask in yout link was not a medical mask. “Reusable” ? All masks I use are disposable.
@Aarno
Good grief – this is hard work.
Yes – I am fully aware that it is not a medical mask: It is a fashion accessory and about as much use as sticky taping an old sock around your face.
But these things are cheap and being sold in their 10s of thousands to people who want to comply with the requirement to wear a “face covering” – because by wearing such a useless item, you are considered to be compliant with the rules.
But the “rules” are idiotic – because there are no rules – other than you have something wrapped around the lower half of your face.
So without this “something” stuck on the lower half of your face – be it that mask I showed you, a dead squirrel or a cheese sandwich – you will incur a £200 fine on the London underground.
In fact it would not surprise me if you could draw a mask on your face with a felt pen, give a cheery wave to the cross-eye goons that are the British Transport Police as you walked past them, and avoid the fine in this way.
PS If any Brits reading this are thinking of using a dead squirrel as a face covering whilst riding the London underground – you may need an entirely separate licence to be in possession of a dead furry animal on a public transport system.
If you make inquiries at most major post offices you should be able to obtain the required application form.
Thanks.
I just need to say Malone sounds far more grounded in science, and morality, and most certainly expresses his views far more respectfully of others who do not share his views, that you do here with your highly charged emotional language, and arrogant stance. The mass formation is a very useful theory to look at what may be going on in our society, and to understand why the media and people like you, spend so much time fabricating conflict and hysteria, in order to get people on board with the agenda.
“Expresses his views more respectfully”? You obviously haven’t seen the things he’s said and written about Katalin Karikó.???♂️
Can you tell me what is not scientific about this approach? https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.633680/full
@pabob clinicaltrials.gov reports 17 clinical trials with famotidine, but no results, Problem is of course that famotidine is an anti ulcer medication
Dr. Malone is not antivaxxxer. He is just for safe vaccines and not for how fast they produced this one before trials were done. You can see for yourself on his website
Jenny McCarthy in 2007: “I’m not ‘antivaccine’; I’m pro-safe vaccine.”
She then is then unable or unwilling to define what to her would be a “safe vaccine” or if any of the vaccines currently in use are safe, as she rails against MMR and other vaccines as dangerous and full of “toxins.”
Robert Malone, MD in 2022: “I’m not ‘antivaccine.’ I’m for safe COVID vaccines.”
He is then unwilling or unable to articulate what would in his mind be a “safe COVID vaccine” or if any of the current COVID vaccines are safe, even as he portrays current COVID vaccines as ineffective and dangerous to the point of causing mass death.
Nope. Malone is antivax.
I feel dumber having read this. Dr. Malone is VACCINATED and has spent his entire career developing and researching them. Similarly to antibiotic resistance, by vaccinating the whole universe we’re making pathogens more resistant and creating vaccine escape variants such as omicron. Millions of thrice vaccinated people have gotten omicron. By trying to smear people, just shows how truly uneducated you and your followers are.
As I’ve said many times before, just because one has been vaccinated (or, before the pandemic, has vaccinated his children, as RFK Jr. loves to brag about) does not mean that you aren’t antivax, and Malone’s rhetoric and conspiracy theories are very, very antivax.
@DJ Omicron variant came from South Africa, a country with low vaccination rate. Actually, lots of COVID cases mean lots of mutations and lots of mutations means lots of escape variants.
While I’ve watched hours of interviews detailing the thoughts of Dr.Robert Malone, who IS the inventor of mRNA technology, hours of interviews featuring Dr. Peter McCullough, the most published author of peer reviewed medical findings in history, read the heavily cited and credible best selling book “The Real Anthony Fauci”, pored over the citations of this book and contemplated the thoughts put forth by the above doctors and the 60,000 doctors who have signed The Great Barrington Declaration, skeptically comparing with the main stream narrative which is supported in this article, I can only conclude that this article is nothing more than a baseless smear offering no real or true counter argument based fact.
Simply stating “they’re anti vaxxers” is not proof. Conflating traditional vaccines and memory B and T cells with experimental gene therapy which does not hinder the spread or offer sterilizing immunity, as other vaccines do, is not proof.
The thoughts represented in this article, rather, are a glaring example of someone failing to employ critical thinking while smearing those who have taken the time to think critically.
You sir, appear abundantly uninformed and proud of it.
Your obvious copy pasta aside (seriously, can you even make the talking points sound a little difference?), I didn’t actually “just” call Dr. Malone antivaccine. I showed why what he was saying was antivaccine.
I’ve been following Dr. Malone for over one year now. It is amazing how so many responders resort to phrases like anti-vaxxer (Dr. Malone is fully vaccinated and has no “pretense” of being “anti-vaccine.” Perhaps those dipping low into “conspiracy theorist” labels should actually read the work of Mattias Desmit from Ghent University in Belgium. He is exactly correct in what he writes as is Dr. Malone.
If Dr. Malone is not “antivaccine,” why does he parrot so many antivaccine talking points, as I documented in this post?
I did a lot of research on Covid vaccines when they came out and subsequent. My conclusion was that it was experimental and should only be taken by high risk and elderly because there are too many unknowns. To say otherwise is illogical IMO.
The term anti-vaxxer was is now affixed to anyone who said maybe we shouldn’t indiscriminately vaccinate everyone. I am vaccine cautious, and if you are not, I don’t think you are well researched. Small pox, tetanus and proven vaccines are a no-brainer. mRNA vaccine are potentially dangerous – that is not debatable.
The biggest crime in all of this is that the basics of self care and especially Vitamin D supplementation was largely ignored. There was a more or less conclusive study out from Germany that correlated Vitamin D deficiency (pre-infection) to hospitalization. Further Ivermectin and other treatments have been demonized, when its/their efficacies seems apparent to me in the many credible studies I have read.
I stumbled onto this article when looking for the link below. It shows the possible damage to DNA that we were told is impossible.
While I assume you are well intentioned, attacking people who dissent from the vaccine and calling them names is wrong. I think you are engaging in this behavior.
Vaccinated children with mRNA is immoral and that is Malone’s main issue. Malone has gone too far and lost his way in some respects. I just think he was a scientist who got in over his head with the nut jobs out there and reacted poorly at times. He is still credible and rightfully called this vaccine into question.
If you want to get vaccinated I respect that. If I don’t I should be respected. That is called mutual respect.
I do wish you well
Curt
DNA Study
https://www.riotimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Pfizer-RNA-into-DNA.pdf
Regarding that study, just no. It does NOT show what you think it shows.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-return-of-the-revenge-of-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-permanently-alter-your-dna-and-lab-leak/
As for:
Nope, because even the most pro- of the provaccine advocates do not advocate “indiscriminately” vaccinating “everyone.” That is the antivax straw man characterization of the position of vaccine advocates.
Why does it seem like every week or so a new “Person” appears to say they feel attacked for their “Research” and touting goddamn ivermectin? AGAIN. This garbage seems orchestrated.
I’m not going to waste time going over the fact the ivermectin DOES NOT WORK. This is based on REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. The proof is laying in a gurney on five drips across the hall from me. I’ve beat this horse enough.
@ Curtis,
Did the Swedish authors ever get around to sequencing the DNA to show that the mRNA was incorporated into it? Without that, all they’ve got is a highly artificial situation that shows nothing.
I suggest you watch this video for more details.
https://youtu.be/OCs_lgoKDRw
Which Covid-19 vaccine did you conclude was experimental and how?
I found this definition of “experimental”
Since all three vaccines approved in the U.S. and two more that will be seeking approval soon have completed that evaluation and published their results, they can no longer be considered experimental in that sense.
Another definition of experimental is
Since three vaccines have received bull FDA licensing at least for adults, they do not fit that definition either.
It seems you come from the “no car is safe enough for Ralph Nader” school of pro-safe vaccine advocacy. /s
After all daily deaths are down to ‘only’ 1700 now. What’s the rush? /s
As for Ivermectin, we now have randomized controlled trials showing that molnupiravir and Paxlovid both reduce the likelihood of hospitalization and death in people infected while similar trials for Ivermectin have shown no benefit.
So until we get a result showing Ivermectin has a real clinical benefit, it must remain “experimental”.
It is possible, but is it wise?
COVID-19 vaccines may be “relatively untested”, but that doesn’t mean they are inadequately tested.
The comments are disturbing because he is speaking the truth. Keep Big Pharma in business along with all the other people that are paid off. You don’t want the truth because it would stop the gravy train!
@Andy
What is the ‘truth’? Were the vaccines not tested enough? How many more people do you think need to be vaccine? How much more data do you need?
It’s a mistake to mix up the medical issues with the business practices.
Neither does it mean they have been adequately tested. Only time, and the future good health will answer that question. Myself I will continue to avoid having to waitr and wonder.
Define “adequately tested.” Be specific.
Actually Malone is far more correct than you are.
You’re not a communist obviously, a neoshitlib maybe but I don’t know you.
Fact is you’re mostly wrong and the one peddling misinformation based on big pharma propaganda.
Can yiou be more specific ? What is wrong, and why ?
I find the evolving situation highly suspicious, especially given data that has emerged since Dec 2020!
Surely there is no intelligent person here, who would recommend every healthy child on the planet take this experimental therapy?
In the UK only 19 children without PECs, have died within 60 days of a Covid positive test. Some argue the figure is actually zero in healthy children. Regardless, it’s so low it’s almost zero! And it’s possible they could have died of other causes, an undiagnosed co-morbidity, or even flu, which as we know does kill children and mysteriously vanished last year. Does anyone have additional data to prove my point?
So IMO Inoculating children is nonsensical!
In any case, our own innate immunity has been evolving alongside millions of bacteria/viruses probably long before we ever crawled onto dry land?
In contrast it seems common sense, that expecting a rushed experimental inoculation to perform the miraculous task of doing a better job in protecting healthy people, than our bodies own pharmacies, was at best wishful thinking! QED – Approx. 99.78% of healthy people under 65 recover fine and then have broad spectrum long lasting antibodies.
So!
Can anyone give me good reason why we should allow Pharma/MSM to coerce parents into giving this experimental inoculation to healthy children.
Can anyone explain why scientists are not allowed to challenge and debate openly?
Especially now it is clear that 2 injections cannot solve the problem and inoculation’s do not work, as promised.
Is anyone prepared to take 4 shots per year, for life?
Does anyone ‘still’ believe that the inoculation is a better solution to the virus in healthy people, than the natural health provided by our very own innate pharmacies?
Does anyone ‘really’ still believe in a miracle inoculation created in record time, or are you just to scared to admit to your friends you called this one wrong!
A Quick summary WRT Experimental Inoculation.
Governments give billions in tax payer money to develop experimental/miracle cure in record time. Pharma and it’s share holders keep the profit!
Governments create new laws to prohibit those injured from suing, for harm or death.
Media and government spend 100’s of millions more of tax payers money trying to coerce (and even), mandate everyone to take an experimental product.
Pharma refuse to share the detailed data for shots, which might show proof of safety, or more likely harm, in original trials!
Soon after miracle cure rolled out various sources of evidence emerge showing miracle cures seem to do more harm than good!
Pharma and media attack this evidence and any scientist or medical doctor with a dissenting opinion!
But no one in Pharma/Government/Media or science dares to debate these scientists in an open and transparent situation!
The FDA asked a judge to grant it 75 years to fully release the documents in its possession tied to the approval of the shots!
Everyone involved in promoting this horrific mess doubles down on the original narrative, despite many adjustments to the narrative!
Many millions are spent censoring any scientist or medical doctor who disagrees with the MSM/Pharma narrative! No time is spent debating these scientists to see if they are right. But they are subsequently attacked at every possible level including their livelihoods!
Anyway that’s sums up my simplified view.
Good Luck With Your Dreams!
Namaste
You count only dead children, and even then only ones that have died only 60 days after COVID diagnosis. Do tou notice the problem ?
You could read FDA analysis of clinical trials. You could read follow up studies. These are public
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/robert-w-malone Why did you throw this man under the bus? Are you intelligent enough for all these patents?
None of these patents concern RNA vaccines. I just the delivery system.
Christine Massey used the FOIA to ask over 70 health organizations including the CDC if they have 1 isolated purified sample of Sars Cov2. CDC FOIA officer Roger Andoh wrote Ms. Massey back and admitted they nor anybody else has 1 isolated purified sample of Sars Cov2. How do you make a vaccine or a test if you don’t have a sample of the Virus you’re trying to cure? Millions of people have had Covid 19 but you don’t have 1 sample. Hey Orac. The jig is up. People are waking up.
That claim is, quite simply, bullshit. Lots of labs have purified samples of SARS-CoV-2, including the variants. Seriously, dude. That claim was debunked by March 2020, and, hilariously, is not, as far as I know, a claim that even Dr. Malone has made. Antivax he might be, but he doesn’t deny the existence of the coronavirus.
My Family in India did not know they were white supremacist and have been taking IVM ZINC and Vit D for over a year now. I’ll let them now. Is t possible the west cant believe a bunch of brown people figured this out.
You claim India’s ministry of health is staffed with white people ? They figured all by themselves that ivermectin does not work. Kory and Senator Johnson are very white persons, too.
That’s so crazy that the patents in his name dated 1987 and 1988 free date anyone else’s claims that’s just crazy that they got that wrong. This is public information accessible by anybody who bothers to look it up that makes it even more dangerous anybody who looks that up will believe the lie that the patent office is giving.
The patent is not about RNA vaccine, it is a way to deliver RNA,
Patent number 5589466
Among others.
I have a question about altering the immune system. Does the fact that a vaccine leads to creation of antibodies and memory cells actually alter the immune system itself, or is it just an instant of its operating the way it’s supposed to, with the system itself remaining unchanged?
To the question above: you can have concerns about COVID-19 vaccines compared to other vaccines, yes. But if you think they’re untested, you’ve been misled. These vaccines have undergone large clinical trials in tens of thousands of people and have since been given to hundreds of millions with very intense monitoring. They’re as tested as can be, even if we do not know all, yet (and the things we do not know are, for example, duration of immunity with, say, a three-dose series, which will inevitably take time). So you can have concerns – and if you do, you should raise them and look for answers from credible sources, like: https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/making-vaccines/prevent-covid
But you should also be careful not to be misled. There’s a lot of misinformation out there.
In my explanation, I did link to this article by Steve Salzberg because it addresses this very question:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2021/11/29/yes-the-vaccine-changes-your-dna-a-tiny-bit-thats-a-good-thing/
Thank you!
Still, the inoculations have not been out there long enough to know what the data is. It is NOT a vaccine like polio that was tested for at least 7 years! It is not the same as this Covid 19 gene therapy. It takes at least 5 years for the data to prove that it is safe. So until then, this is a gene therapy “EXPERIMENT “.
Soqui- Salk first tested his vaccine in pilot studies on monkeys, himself, his family and his team: this was 1951/52. Then on inmates of two Care institutions and some of their staff. He published his JAMA paper, 28 March 1954. Sabin ( his competitor) was hostile to the Salk vaccine development. The field trial began Monday,9 a.m. April 1954. The vaccine was finally given, double blinded to 419,000 children and placebo to 330,000 children. A further 232,000 children were vaccinated with their knowledge while another 800,000 received no injection and were followed up to see the results. The last injections were given in late June 1954.
Analysis of the millions of bits of information was conducted at the Vaccine Evaluation Centre at Ann Arbor ( previously the maternity hospital for his sons’ births) led by Tom Francis. His report was announced on 12 April 1955 and showed 80-90 per cent reduction in risk after vaccination. In very short time ( hours) Salk’s vaccine ( 27 million doses already prepared in the eventuality of success) was given the OK for licensing and immediate use. Hardly 7 years, as you wrote, for it’s development. Two brilliant books ( among many) on the subject are ‘Paralysed With Fear: The Story of Polio’ by Gareth Williams and ‘Patenting The Sun: Polio and the Salk Vaccine’ by Jane S Smith
You say they were extensively tested but we were told cardiac issues were no more than the general population, now governments are arranging payouts for people with carditis among other issues (89,000 in australia alone). They are still learning! EUA and zero liability was for a reason.
Without sources, I can’t discuss the specifics of your claims.
However, these vaccines received the same 3 phase testing as other vaccines. It went quickly because there was plenty of funding to set up testing locations and the disease was rampant so it didn’t take long to accumulate enough cases to assess the efficacy. The phase 3 trials were pretty much normal size for vaccines, about 30,000 to 45,000. That’s enough to detect 1 in 1000 risk factors. To detect 1 in 10,000 or1 in 100,000 factors you would need a huge trial that would take too long to organize and recruit volunteers. So we do Phase 4 monitoring which has detected the CVST/TTS problem in the Janssen vaccine and the myocarditis problem in the mRNA vaccines.
Myocarditis/Pericarditis research is ongoing using VAERS, the VSD and other sources. It seems to be about a 1 in 100,000 risk, whereas the IFR from Covid-19 is about 300-700 per 100,000.
It is quite appropriate to compensate people who develop an adverse effect like that. For most U.S. vaccines, this is done through the VICP, but because of the emergency approval for the Covid-19 vaccines this is being done through the CICP instead.
The EUA was because we were and still are in an emergency situation. 1000 people were dying every day in November 2020 and it went up to 2500 per day in December. We are running over 1000 a day now as well. However as we have accumulated more months of experience with these vaccines, the CDC has given full licensure for certain vaccines and age groups.
There are no tens of thousands of payments for COVID-19 vaccines harms in Australia. As best as I can tell, this specific bit of misinformation came from here – https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-21-december-2021.pdf – and it is talking about, in one state, 86.000 disaster relief payments for COVID-19.
Australia’s compensation scheme just opened mid-December. It doesn’t look like it has anything near that number of claims filed yet. The news article says over 10,000 expressed interest in filing a claim – not filed.
https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme-now-open
Anti-vaccine leaders do not value accuracy, and are misleading their followers.
Dorit Reiss
And the form to register an expression of interest in filing a claim takes only contact details; no details of the claim are taken:
https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/contact-us/register-interest-in-claims-scheme
The scheme is now open for actual claim submission. A claim needs to be for one of a set of specific serious COVID vaccination side-effects, and in most cases requires that the claimant was hospitalised at least overnight. Minor COVID vaccination side-effects are explicitly excluded.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme
There’s a link to the actual claim submission pages in that page.
Jord w:
The Australian Theraputic Goods Administration’s (TGA) numbers are, not surprisingly, nowhere near as great as that:
<
blockquote>To 19 December 2021, the TGA has received 415 reports which have been assessed as likely to be myocarditis from about 26.2 million doses of Comirnaty (Pfizer) and 37 reports which have been assessed as likely to be myocarditis from about 1.5 million doses of Spikevax (Moderna).blockquote>
https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-23-12-2021
That’s a total of 452 cases. I’m not sure how you get from 452 to 89000. I’m sure Jord w would love to explain.
The TGA is Australia’s regulator of medicines and medical devices.
The “clinicla trials” for the current lethal injections are ongoing, and the global population are the “lab rats”, the guinea pigs for this experimental toxic drug combination. Your body is the testing ground. I wish you luck in this evil form of Russian Roulette.
You are very silly and clearly don’t know what “experimental” means.
— As I mentioned elsewhere, Malone, McCollough and a few other contrarians have appeared at quack-fraught sinkholes like PRN.com, @ high wire talk, Natural News, CHD. If you are a scientist/ physician shouldn’t you know how bad these sites/ their owners are?
— ” .. all quackery eventually leads to antivax.” said Orac
It has to because alties nearly exclusively promote “natural health” based upon substances grown on g-d’s green earth and “natural healing” by the body itself illustrating its innate ‘wisdom” ( or by an advanced spiritual energy practitioner).
Meds like drugs or vaccines are chemicalz produced by people in factories and are rather cringe inducing to the faithful.
Like hemlock, castor beans, jimson weed, nightshade, rosary pea…those are just off the top of my head. Natural af.
Nature has a lot of things that can kill you in an instant. To some people natural seems to mean ‘good’ and chemical ‘bad’.
Well, virusses and bacteria that can make people very ill and even kill people, are very natural and things that can cure might be chemical, so I prefer the latter.
Even the WHO has said that it doesn’t agree with vaccinating children. So I guess the WHO is quackery too? Its getting to the point that people who are middle ground or centrist see both sides as radicalized and conspiratorial. The only difference is that the fringe pro-vaxxers see anyone with common-sense caution as having an evil or other agenda (or crazy). Well, you guys look crazy too. I just wish the world would wake up and have some common sense. How many covid patients has the author of this blog treated, and what is his early treatment recommendations, other than to send the patient home to quarantine? I think doctors like McCullough, Malone, Chetty, and some others are the most sensible. They have real experience with covid, aren’t generally anti-vax (calling some of them this is weird and ridiculous), and have used treatment protocols that have worked. They are expressing the need for early treatment and raising questions regarding why nothing is being offered and why everything comes down to a vaccine or two new covid drugs that there hasn’t been the time to test whether there are/will be long term side effects etc. There is huge conflict of interest in those pushing these new treatments as THEY PROFIT FINANCIALLY FROM THEM. This is just common sense and I don’t get why there is so little of it in the world today. But go ahead, attack doctors who are raising concerns behind their backs instead of having (or demanding) open debate.
Some of these doctors are begging for open debate but the only venues they can be heard on are the right-wing ones. So, yeah, it makes them look bad to the left, but the fact the left won’t talk to them makes the left look bad to anyone who is centrist or on the right. Malone’s not talking about microchips. He is just being cautious. Malone isn’t recommending anything the WHO isn’t right now. So lighten up. Everyone is scared right now which deserves empathy on both sides. Both polarities are simply scared of opposite things right now and both sides are becoming more and more radicalized by each others stance or fears. This deserves empathy and compassion. If the left spews anger and acts like those afraid of the vax need to be punished or rounded up (I’ve even heard news sources say this kind of unstable stuff), then the right will starts to think the worst and like they need to have an uprising to protect themselves. If you’re not careful, you will both start a civil war. One side demanding a vax and the other thinking it will kill them. So, if mandates come down like in Austria (or even Australia), what do you think scared ppl with guns will do? Is vaccinating everyone worth this? Just calm down and start to find a common ground. The mental instability happening right now is astounding. All over a virus which I don’t know anyone who died or even had it bad. Which, for me, if this really isn’t a pandemic (I’m not saying there isn’t one, but I don’t see one), then this is all abuse, which, if so, we should be upset with our governments and not one another. If it leads to food shortages, hyperinflation, and homelessness, then this is an unforgivable mismanagement of a health crisis.
Both my daughter and partner are talking about suicide due to this whole thing (not from conspiracies but just feeling hopeless that the covid thing will never end). For two years, all you see when you turn on the news is about Covid. Forget all the vax stuff, what is happening isn’t mentally healthy. You have to weigh quality of life over trying to overprotect people. And when the vaccinated elderly die alone and are discouraged from seeing family on xmas etc (despite being boosted), you have to start weighing what is really important. My boosted aunt and uncle (in Canada) can’t travel to Australia to visit two family members who are dying of cancer. It is hard to know what is right or not, who is being humane and who isn’t. So, I think the only alternative is it has to be up to people themselves and not governments what treatments they want and what risks they take. Otherwise, you just end up trading one inhumanity for another, while people lose businesses, go homeless, commit suicide, etc. If people want to live their life scared that way, they should just stay home and let everyone else take the risks they want to take and live their lives. This has gone on long enough. Never in history has a collective been so cowardly in its pandemic ideology. In the past, it was considered saintly to visit lepers, as a test of a person’s humanity and courage, which leprosy is a hell of a lot scarier than Omicron.
They’re not begging for “open debate.” They’re begging for a forum that falsely elevates them to appear to have equal validity to real scientists.
Sam:
Where do they say that? They seem to be saying something rather different here:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice
Really?! Actually you’re comment points to evidence you live in denial and your ego needs a check. The truth is this claim your making is laughable as you talk of them wanting to be elevated to a real scientist?! No there is an agenda, and narrative to go with it and any scientist, some of the greatest scientist can’t be heard because they don’t follow the agenda therefore they are censored. So you keep living in your little world of denial but the reality is people can’t hear the truth because they don’t want the truth out! There are people like myself we go on uncensored platforms and we go we dig deep and we find truth. Wow! I find incredibly telling if you truly believe what you’re commenting on this thread
@Randi,
Whom are you addressing? You are the third reply to this comment and don’t seem to be talking about Sam’s comment.
I give most commenters the benefit of the doubt in assuming they genuinely believe what they are saying. Although there are always a few who are just trying to stir up an argument or barking for attention.
Who was censored when and in what forum?
Disagreeing with statements, refusing to accept them merely on the person’s say-so, or explaining why they are or might be wrong is not censorship.
For another take on that issue, I suggest you read this blog.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-gbd-is-silencing-me/
In science, seeing truth is an ongoing process that requires evaluating a wide body of evidence, which your comment is lacking.
Well, they didn’t have masks.
Um, if it weren’t for the animal reservoir, Hansen’s disease just might, just maybe be up for eradication some day.
I didn’t realize that there were four more books added to the six I read as a kid in the Thomas Covenant series, just by the by. I don’t think they were targeted at 10- to 11-year-olds, but at least I didn’t later need to be taught that no means no.
I’ve been preoccupied lately, but I wanted to check whether the Sam == Randi sockpuppetry was noted in due course. Give the four “likes,” it’s pretty much a given that there are two more of it.
Sam unfortunately the risks you take impinge on others’ lives to their detriment so adjudication has to occur about the balance of risks and our freedoms, by those we elected to govern ( guided by an up to date science) Also you omit to refer to the excess hospitalizations that are and will occur if we are left to our own decisions. As everybody knows this reduces the care of others in need.
According to an August 12 2021 in The Atlantic by Tom Bartlett (“The Vaccine Scientist Spreading Vaccine Misinformation”), Malone did not finish his PhD, leaving grad school early for the lure of lucre which, playing the role of the victim, he claims he didn’t receive:
Also, looking at Malone’s own web page (for his “consulting” company) in 2017 he was doing some sort of studies on repurposing of current medications for ZiKa virus, which would help explain his quick descent into the snake oil of HCQ and ivermectin for COVID-19.
Are you seriously saying Ivermectin and HCQ (the gun to get ZINC into your cell so virus can’t replicate) don’t work on covid today? With countries using it (see japan etc) massively seeing cases drop to nothing? Health minister of Japan now says give ivermectin to everyone now…LOL. Joe Rogan interview with Dr San jay Gupta (idiot, SP? you know the fool I’m talking about, who hasn’t seen Joe Rogan DESTROY this man and his TV channel!?) said it all about ivermectin. THEY LIED about ivermectin repeatedly, it is HUMAN MEDICINE. Both it and HCQ on WHO’s list of REQUIRED meds! Ivermectin got the nobel prize 2015 or so correct? So unbelievably effective, but you talk more fake news. 2B+ doses world wide correct to HUMANS? Same story as many drugs, antibiotics etc. Penicillin can be given to horses too, is it not made for humans then? Most (80%+?) of these drugs etc are used in animals (quantity wise), but they are for HUMANS too….ROFL. For a doc, you don’t seem to have much common sense, and full of fake news. But then you work on mrna stuff so you’re OWNED. 🙂 No shock about anything you say PRO pharma.
You don’t like the OLD drugs/therapeutics because they cost 6 cents instead of your 33B FAKE vaccines (yeah, not even a vaccine, so says CDC who had to change definition of vaccines…LOL) and boosters and that’s just for Pfizer. How much do they pay you people to lie? Is it a vaccine if NONE of the actual virus is in it? Is it a vaccine if it lasts months? Polio etc last how long? LIFE?
DR. Zelenko was blocked by Cuomo in NY from getting HCQ, so he found on their own sites (NIMH IIRC) a new GUN for zinc to enter the cell. Vitamin C+ Quercetin will work as the same GUN like device as HCQ, and zinc gets in and your done with replication of any influenza, flu, covid, whatever crap. DONE, GONE. Don’t collect your 33B+…Oh, now we know why you want them instead of 6 cents drug that works OFF patents 🙂
D3, C, Zinc, Quercetin…All you need to ignore covid. DR. Simone Gold talking about VAIDS now in Israel. YEP, vaccine aids you idiots. NYT just said covid boosters may cause immune system fatigue. YEP, VAIDS. Welcome to NO IMMUNE SYSTEM due to mRNA drugs called Vaccines by bought off people like YOU ORAC.
We have massive proof this stuff is NOT working, see FULLY vaxxed cruise ships worldwide. MASSIVE COVID SHIPS is what they should be called because NOBODY can stop it with immune system after shots!…ROFL. So easy to see. See 100% vaxxed places, they have the highest CASES. This isn’t difficult to understand so you are evil. Yeah, EVIL, as you KNOW and still act like Gupta idiot on Joe Rogan’s show. He fully admits on that show IVERMECTIN can be a very EFFECTIVE HUMAN medicine…LOL.
To anyone else reading: Everything posted above about ivermection is plain wrong. I’m sorry-but that’s the truth. Just ask the four patients we have on service right now who were taking it. They were all convinced it would work until it didn’t. And, yes-all were taking zinc and the rest of the shit, too.
So the 2 month trials of pfizer was released, so that data I will ignore, because Orac says its misinformation. if though 8 people in the 2 month trial caught covid after getting the shot, but yet we are to believe when we told after this trial, the vaccine will give you immunity from Covid and stop the spread. now we know that is not true obviously and the head of pfizer just recently promoting a new vaccine the 4th shot will be different this time because the first 2 shots did little or nothing that is his words. So we will ignore the harm caused to the parcipants in the trials, and ignore the 60 time more soccer players having heart issues, no other year in history.
2020 225,000 covid deaths without vaccine
2021 600,000 with vaccines that are safe with no side effect
also while was the definition of vaccine changed? immunity was removed, maybe so they won’t lose EUA.
facts matters, science matter, data matter people been preaching it and now don’t want they data to show.
now Fauci and Rochelle are trying to somehow say those deaths are for other reasons not covid 4 or more comorbidites, so are they saying covid is not the reason for death and we shouldnt fear it?
@Rob Trial did not claim that vaccines are 100% effective, no medical intervention is.
They said they were 95% efective.
Clinical trials do not assess asymptomatic spreading, follow up studies do.
Soccer players ? Name one.
There wer emany more COVID cases in 2021 than 2030
Ivermectin does work!!! I had Covid and my whole family. We took Ivermectin. ALL cured in 3 days. In my country that’s what they take. And it is a parasite medicine for humans also!!!
Anecdotes. You would have gotten better anyway.
I have followed Dr. Malone he is not antivax.He is actually very provaccine. He is pointing out very serious side effects.
Suu-uure he is “not antivax.”?
That must be why he claims without evidence that COVID-19 vaccines kill children and cause brain damage, while buying into conspiracy theories about a “depopulation agenda.”
It is an interesting commentary on risk aversion playing out now. Those who believe the vaccines are untested have a perfectly logical argument – they simply haven’t been tested rigorously over a long enough timeframe.
There are many, many examples of sudden cardiac arrest following vaccination – even in elite athletes – as well as other complications. This, coupled with the proven low mortality rate of Covid regarding all but the elderly and those with serious medical conditions, provides ample support for those who wish not to be forced to comply.
Evidence abounds from the most heavily vaccinated populations on Earth that Covid continues to infect, almost regardless of vaccination status.
So while I agree many anti-vax “campaigners” are of dubious motivation, that has absolutely nothing at all to do with forcing millions of people, including those of child-bearing years (and now, even more grotesquely, young school-age children) to submit to a vaccine against their better judgement.
That is totalitarianism, not good health policy….
You obviously don’t understand the baseline rate fallacy and the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
More children have been shot in Chicago this year, than have died of covid19 nationwide
Your point?
Seriously, what is your point, other than the most disgusting form of whataboutism that I hear from antivaxxers?
You are a waste of space.
@Michael,
When you state that ‘Those who believe the vaccines are untested have a perfectly logical argument – they simply haven’t been tested rigorously over a long enough timeframe’ – considering that we have data for +18 months, Billions of vaccinated people (of every age group etc.), how much more data do you feel we need?
Apparently that he can copy and paste a three-month-old headline from the New York Post.
Plain and simply, Malone DID take the covid vaccine. 2. Malone states first off that he believes in vaccines. 3. Can you absolutely prove scientifically beyond a shadow of doubt that covid vaccine does NOT and will not harm children? My GOD, put down the ego. open your mind. wake up. Why do so many want to blindly back Pharma 100%??? when there years and years of historical proof of lies and harm.
Orac, and your groupies…have you no self awareness, or do you simply not care, how incredibly snarky, dismissive, and insulting you are to people that have legitimate concerns about the vaccine–concerns solely caused by the incompetent messaging from FDA, CDC, and, frankly, blogs like this?
You Orac, as well as your groupies, suffer from the main line of defense used by the left to cancel any dialog –insult. This has nothing to do with your political views. It has to do with your intellectual incompetence at true dialogue–rather that respect the notion people have legitimate questions and confusion, and answer/discuss/refute respectfully, you automatically insult all who don’t agree with the label “antivaxer”.
No Orac, not agreeing with you, or having other opinions no more makes one an anti-vaxer than it makes you stupid for applying the label.
Your supporting refutations are middling at best. Links to Forbes,other MSM, and supra-national organizations is your supporting documentation? Are you and your groupies that oblivious to how little credibility MSM and supra-national organizations have, and therein is the root of the problem with disinformation? Why don’t you post links to real data–actual studies that prove your point? I wager doing so would present you with a far more formidable intellectual task to prove your ideas, which is why it appears to me your blog is more about stirring the pot and driving clicks than it is honest science information
The rich irony is that your (and your groupies) snarky, insulting, condescending tone do more to promote disinformation that folks like Malone, who is at least respectful in his language when it comes to people having different ideas.
Your collective tone is a total turn off, and so your blog is essentially the echo chamber of a blow hard fighting off bored trolls.
It sure as heck is useless as a voice of reason or intellectual honesty.
Funny, but I provided exactly what you asked for, a list of systems other than VAERS that monitor vaccine safety and are much more reliable. You can’t address that; so instead you start hurling insults and conspiracy theories. One notes that I linked directly to the sources, as well, not “orbes,other MSM, and supra-national organizations.” But whatever. As for links to studies, be careful what you ask for…
Also, as for being “dismissive” of “vaccine concerns,” I am most definitely not dismissive of concerns brought forward by the vaccine-hesitant. I do, however, dismiss conspiracy mongering nonsense from antivax ideologues who are not persuadable.
@derwood kirrkwood Do you refer CDC an international agency ?
@Carlamir You could check vaccine safetey studies
@Wans There is one safety study:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116298
Believe me, safety studies have been done.
Your getting that jab money, your getting that transfer of wealth straight into your pocket. You won’t be on Rogan or any other meaningful podcast, your a team of of propagandists. Your getting paid to slang that fear, push the doubt, cancel heroes that are standing up for humanity. Your on the wrong side of history . Let’s see you debate Malone or Dr McCullough? Na you won’t do that coz you’d get schooled. Roll up your arm for the 20 boosters coming for you I bet you can’t wait. Get all 20 at once there so good for you.
Of course I won’t be on Rogan or any similar podcast. I’m not a crank, antivaxxer, or science denier.
I must have missed it when he come out in support for the use of a vaccine using another technology. Do you have a link?
You haven’t followed him very well. Or you are a shill for him.
Oh so you know when you’re talking about children, you better be sure you are right. Because I know there’s going to be a lot of parents out there with young kids that had no say in it that may not live or may be incredibly damaged. Why don’t you show us the numbers and the science and the data to back up how it’s safe for kids who should’ve never been touch with his jab. I have no idea where you get your information from but I know where I get mine from and facts, data, scientist are all are saying the same thing so this shot is not a vaccine, there’s no anti-VAXor’s because there’s no vaccine to refuse. So these kids that you’re talking about I hope you can live with yourself and the parents themselves because there’s no way in hell they would touch my kid or me!!
@ Wans
“I hope you can live with yourself.”
Well, I think that’s no the main issue I have here.
The main issue I have is: how can you be so brainwashed ?
Speaking of Black Rock…
https://youtu.be/7xxgRUyzgs0
‘If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.’
Let me see if I have this right. Xi Jing Ping and Vladimir Putin are Blockrock puppets?
No George Soros? I thought that he runs the world, maybe with help from Bill Gates…
Don’t forget the Juwes, who will not be blamed for nothing.
I believe that in attempting to sidestep or avoid being called out as bigots, such people prefer the term “globalists.”
Ahhh, it’s all clear to me now.
Teh ‘vaccine holocaust’ is all on the shoulders of Jack the Ripper…
Thx, DB.
List of Pfizer shareholders:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PFE/holders
8% is not a controlling stake.
True but uninformed. It is a “controlling interest” because it is a larger stake than anybody else holds. You are thinking of “majority shareholder”.
@publicus_reanimated In shareholding meeting, shareholders vote. Majority of shares are needed to pass a resolution, Having more shares than anybody else does not mean much
Malone did not say Blackrock and Vanguard where controlling Pfizer–that is disinformation–a rather rich irony that Orac groupies would be promoting such on Orac’s site.
Malone said that INSTITUTIONS like Blackrock and Vanguard are the majority holders of Pfizer stock–as is proven in Aarano’s yahoo link–institutions own 64% of the stock. Malone’s point was institutions have but one motive: maximizing return for their shareholders. His point was, that is the main force at play when it comes to the guiding principles of big Pharma like Pfizer–satisfying shareholders through return on investment.
Any of you groupies care to explain how Malone’s observation is not correct? That majority shareholders are institutions that own Pfizer, and the only motive said institutions have is profit motive–they don’t care about bio-ethincs or anything else outside the context of profit motive. Care to refute? Be my guest.
That was Malone’s point. Not the disinformation the Orac groupies portray regarding the context of what he said
“Institutions” are not one skin, and while institutions with higher percentages of stocks can have more influence, that’s very far from “controlling”.
Here is Malone’s specific quote quoted by Orac. It’s not what you said. It’s exactly about those two institutions.
“If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.
Blackrock and Vanguard hold large interests in pivotal companies, and Vanguard holds a large share of Blackrock. In turn, Blackrock has been called the “fourth branch of government” by Bloomberg as they are the only private firm that has financial agreements to lend money to the central banking system.13”
The image of Dr. Robert Malone, “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” used at the beginning of Orac’s post shows a can of coconut water. Now, the Mayo Clinic has communicated, “Weighing the pros and cons, plain water is still the smart choice.”
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/coconut-water/faq-20207812
Clearly, here’s another example where Dr. Robert Malone, “inventor of mRNA vaccines,” doesn’t intelligently practice a healthy lifestyle.
I think there are two common threads in quackery that lead to anti-vax: germ theory denialism (in this case its “soft” form of “germs can only make you sick if you already have a chronic disease”) and the general conspiracism or what I think of as negative definition of truth, where “if it’s both made and promoted by mainstream entities for a specific stated purpose it just has to be wrong.” There is only one form of quackery that I know of (Chronic Lyme quackery) that does not deny or minimize germ theory, but instead overapplies it claiming that a specific family of germs is behind all kinds of non-specific chronic illness. The rest all seem to rest on a basis that something other than germs is the main cause of every disease, and of course, even the one exception is as staunchly conspiracist as the rest, claiming they have cures They ™ won’t tell you about.
The author of this Marxist drivel should be incarcerated for a minimum of 20 years, then spayed/neutered and deported to N. Korea.
How is this post “Marxist”? Please include quotes from The Communist Manifesto to back up your assertions.
A great response! This is the kind of assignment I give to my students to prove they’ve actually done the reading!
Oh. The irony. Let’s complain about Marxism then suggest a truly totalitarian course of action and a trip to a REAL Marxist country.
Da, comrade. To the gulag with all the class traitors!
Posters here are too busy fighting over the scraps from the government funding trough of science to see the slow but steady corruption of science. You applaud when scientist are banned or de-platformed when they post things that you don’t agree with and you’re too myopic to see/understand that it will happen to you at some point. This was written by two people who could hardly be called anti vaxxers or anti science. The editor of the Lancet just testified that an article on covid was published not because of the science but because of the politics and that is just one small item that was used to silence the opposition.
“Corrupting STEM. The Silent Liberal Majority Must Fight Back”
quillette.com/2021/12/18/scientists-must-gain-the-courage-to-oppose-the-politicization-of-their-disciplines/
The “illiberal academic ideologues” that Krylov and Tanzman complain about are accused of silencing scientists over perceived missteps on equity and diversity-type issues. They’re not addressing “censorship” for holding unscientific views on subjects like vaccination, and fearmongering about world slavery and population reduction.
In any event, it’s ludicrous to claim that Robert Malone has been silenced or censored. One of his current enterprises is the Unity Project, of which he’s the “medical and regulatory director”. That group was formed to oppose the child vaccination mandate in California. Malone’s colleagues there include “canceled” luminaries like Pierry Kory, Peter McCullough and Harvey Risch, who’ve continued to have abundant opportunity to push Covid-19 misinformation, such as claims that drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are wonderfully effective against the disease.
I think you’re confusing censorship with amply justified criticism and journals being more cautious about rushing bad research into publication.
Ivermectin does work. Big Pharma doesn’t want that. Theres no money in it for them. Government is in bed with Big Pharma. Vaccines will be proven to have long term side effects. Im vaxxed but think it was unnecessary. Definitely wrong for kids. Everything is about controlling someone or something else. We have become a horrible society. BTW check out how Japan has used IVM to effectively defeat Covid.
No, ivermectin does not work. Seriously, the big studies that showed that it did were either fraudulent or highly dubious. The better quality studies showed that it did not work.
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/10/18/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-7/
@ Kirby
And who makes Ivermectin?
Big Pharma!
So if it would work, they would acknowledge it, because there is money to be made. Or do you really think they wouldn’t be able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it, if it worked?
But no, Big Pharma rather spends lots of money to try to make some new medicines to fight Covid. And of course they made vaccines. And I prefer taking a vaccine, even with a booster, or even more boosters, over getting ill and putting my hope on some medicine.
This Torygraph item, Clunk? And you have the balls to complain about politicians? Dear L-rd.
I must say that I’m utterly dumbfounded by this, though.
I never revel in banning speech, especially science. The people we see de-platformed ARE NOT engaged in science. They are engaged in fear-mongering, look-at-me-look-at-me, daddy-didn’t-give-me-enough-attention, spewing forth of bs like a sprinkler.
Show me ONE experiment that didn’t involve “clever” manipulation of other people’s data any of these turds has run. Just one. That meets statistical rigor.
As I previously stated: I don’t even like banning this baloney. I think we should air it out for the world to see. Banning it only gives kooks another thing to cry about in public.
“You applaud when scientist are banned or de-platformed when they post things that you don’t agree with and you’re too myopic to see/understand that it will happen to you at some point.”
You seem to think that science is a fight–as in a boxing match–with two opponents duking it out as a way to determine who is “right”. Science isn’t a fight, its a method of inquiry.
brainmatterz- you havn’t got that right about science not being like a boxing match etc. Usually it is highly competitive with a race to get there first and in print. I think of the race to establish the structure of DNA. Also Salk and Sabin really did verbally slug it out over who has the most effective polio vaccine. The method of inquiry often results in highly antagonistic viewpoints expressed for all to see.
I understand the CDC has yet to acknowledge a single death from the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”. Does Orac acknowledge the injuries, disabilities, and deaths caused by the adverse reactions to the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”? The VAERS data has been collected and analyzed by Dr. Jessica Rose and others. Besides noting the serious adverse reactions among all age groups, she explains in interviews that the difficulty in filing a VAERS report has resulted in major undercounting of an unprecedented number of adverse reactions. Steve Hirsch figures the underreporting factor to be 41. The Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” related deaths reported by VAERS is 20,244 and Hirsch’s URF of 41 would take the estimated Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” deaths to 830,004. The total adverse reactions to the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines” reported by VAERS is 965,841…times 41 equals 39.6 million. Orac may quibble with the URF of 41, but is he or she willing to deny that there are serious injuries, disabilities, and deaths as a result of the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines”. How many compared to all the other vaccines combined in one year or the last 30 years? The breakthrough infections demonstrate Fauci was pushing his drugs under false pretenses. Effective therapeutic treatments were banned so kidney damaging Remdesivir could add to the death toll from Covid 19/SARS2 infection. Fauci and his groupies have been been shirking their responsibilities for facilitating the development of the CCP’s Wuhan lab Covid 19/SARS2 pandemic. Their policies of no medical treatments besides Remdesivir or the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccines” amounts to quackery, bad medicine, and drug pushing that have caused an estimated 85% of the deaths from Covid 19/SARS2 infection. If Hirsch’s estimates concerning the injuries, disabilities, and deaths from the Covid 19/SARS2 “vaccine” adverse reactions hold up, double the number of deaths that Fauci and his groupies, enablers, or facilitators are responsible for.
Dr. Malone and others are voices crying out in the wilderness of censorship and misinformation by detractors or worse. He and his fellow sirens are trying to save humanity from more democidal madness that Fauci and his supporters have inflicted upon innocent victims. We are seeing that the “vaccines” are ineffective as predicted and the anticipated Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is starting to occur.
Orac, in my opinion, is only making things worse.
“Steve Hirsch figures the underreporting factor to be 41.”
I figure Cjones1 is a cross between a budgie and a llama.
Cjones1, Orac has addressed the misuse of VAERS data in a number of posts including this one: https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/09/20/doctors-who-should-know-better-dumpster-dive-in-vaers/
Barfing up TrialSiteNews is an auto-fail.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-suggest-covid-19-vaccines-killed-150000-people-as-analysis-claims-idUSL1N2R00KP
I suppose there’s no more point asking where the bodies are than requesting citations for everything you just typed.
The bodies have been flown away in the dead of night by the black helicopters in order to be drained of adrenochrome. Obviously.
Let’s not be naive.
As demonstrated previously, many hundreds of thousands of bodies of vaccine victims have been transported in the dead of night to refrigerated warehouses like this one, in Teaneck, NJ, Lead SD and Victoria TX.
https://wsjbuild.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/DJI_0710-HDR-scaled.jpg
After the heat dies down, the bodies are weighted and covertly dumped off the U.S. coast to form artificial reefs.
Physicians get a $250 Amazon gift card for each case they sign off on as being due to other causes. It’s a sweet grift.
I find it most amusing that these innumerate conspiracy theorists somehow think that well over three quarters of a million deaths due to COVID-19 vaccines wouldn’t be noticed or could somehow be “covered up” by anyone or attributed to something else.
Don’t forget the families and friends. They have to be disposed of as well. Wouldn’t want any inconvenient missing person’s cases.
AND you’ll have to keep their cell phones active so that the phone companies don’t report a sudden decrease in usage.
“over three quarters of a million deaths due to COVID-19 vaccines wouldn’t be noticed”
That’s why there are nanochips in the vaccine. The “person” dies and the body remains animated by the artificial intelligence loaded onto the nanochip once it crosses the blood-brain barrier. Give it a few more years and the New World Order will have replaced the bulk of humanity with compliant robots.
It’s really very obvious when you think about it.
I’m going to guess that you are referring to Steve Kirsch.
Malone and his ilk are sirens? This is appropriate since in Greek mythology sirens used their irresistible song to lure sailors to their deaths. These ‘experts’ should know better and have a lot to answer for, not that they ever will.
Did you notice that experts are answering all the time to your ilk, but you just do not listen.
Actually, you understand wrong: 57 cases and 9 deaths, but this is based on VSD, not VAERS (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59692776)
The VAERS form has a separate section where you can report repetitive motion injuries sustained while repeatedly typing “scare quotes” around the word vaccines.
Oh no – I’ve been mass psychosed! Whatever will I do? Me, I’m gonna schedule my booster just to own the antivax crowd. Ha!
I’m not a liar but I often have to lie to get my point across. <- The poor disguise and essence of antivaxer IMHO.
Should be required reading for everyone! Thanks also for the deep dive on VAERS at this blogsite.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-suggest-covid-19-vaccines-killed-150000-people-as-analysis-claims-idUSL1N2R00KP
From the annals of Publish First, Regret Later:
An entire issue of an Elsevier journal devoted to Covid-19 issues has garnered an expression of concern from the editors. Included in this blanket EOC is an article by Ronald Kostoff et al claiming that Covid-19 vaccination is 5X more deadly than Covid-19 in a “best-case”, “very conservative” scenario.
http://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100216X
Kostoff authored a paper awhile back on his concerns about the biomedical literature, which he faults for ignoring, hiding or suppressing detrimental health effects of various products and interventions, including water fluoridation and of course vaccination (he blames autism on factors including the MMR vaccine, glyphosate (with a shout-out to Stephanie Seneff) and EMFs).
The kicker in that article is Kostoff (whose PhD is in aerospace and mechanical sciences*) noting that low quality papers can get published because of poor peer review. Seeing that Kostoff’s Covid-19 vaccine paper has been flagged post-publication after major criticisms came to light and now has a whole new set of reviewers, he may just have a point.
*Kostoff also boasts of being listed in “2000 Outstanding Intellectuals of the 21st Century”, 4th ed. (2006).
I found ANOTHER techbro mining VAERS to create fear, doubt and uncertainty about the COVID19 vaccines (to add to Steve Kirsch and Mathew Crawford (Jessica Rose’s co-author on the VAERS paper.
His name is Craig Paardekooper and his LinkedIn page reads “I am a software developer based in Chelsea London”.
This time exploiting the “hot lots” myth
The website he created is:
How Bad is My Batch
Are some batches more toxic than others?
Batch codes and associated deaths, disabilities and illnesses for Covid 19 Vaccines.
He vlaims Moderna batches ending in 20A and 21A are “50x more toxic than other batches.”
Oh great, Paardekooper a graphene oxide in vaccines fabulist too.
Source:
https://rense.com/general96/graphene-oxide-is-toxic-to-human-blood.pdf
Anti-vaccine doctor James Hill MD has a newsletter spreading disinformation about vaccine safety.
Source:
https://hillmd.substack.com/p/vaccine-batches-vary-in-toxicity
Hill is on Twitter.
James Hill, MD @jhillmd
Doctor, lawyer. Applications of molecular biology and engineering in medicine.
https://twitter.com/jhillmd?lang=en
Source:
https://twitter.com/jhillmd/status/1472638689415086084
“James Hill” is such a common name it is difficult to identify where he is licensed or practices (if he does).
Man, that’s just AoA-level bad. And, of course,
(The Vesper was of course shaken.)
I’m going to give you the TRUTH in a nutshell. If it’s not posted, then this site is also a commie take over that will lose in the end. This is: The biggest Crime Against Humanity WoldWide in all history. C19 leak was a plandemic. Trump was in the way. The jab is NOT a vaccine, all those deaths, bodies piled up were wrongfully blanketed under COVID. They mattered, innocent people who were left untreated until they would gasp for breath, which enabled the evil implemented protocol for ventilators all for reimbursement while our loved ones died at the hands of: Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, CDC, AMA, WHO all of you and other players involved must pay for your crimes. At NO time did God assign ANY of you to take on this sick, satanic act of controlling the population to save the world. AKA The New World Order! Next: That is not a vaccine, it is NOT meant to protect anyone. It is meant to suppress your immune system, 85% placebo, 15% is deadly. It is meant to K.I.L.L. CENSORSHIP GAVE ALL OF IT AWAY! That’s the bottom line here and more of us are aware than not. Locked & loaded. We shall defend this country, beware, the sleeping giants including the military can turn at any moment to protect this land, we are a FREE America and those who mess with that freedom will wish they hadn’t. By the way, Bill Gates is a college dropout, he has NO medical degree. How strange he, Fauci, big pharma, and more all partners, what a CONFLICT! Just saying….in a nutshell. Not sharing my sources, I’ve finished my investigation. FACTS /Real Science never lies. Opinions are for those who are in denial.
I let your comment through because I thought it might amuse my regular readers with your intermittent ALL CAPS and utterly bonkers conspiracy nonsense.
“Not sharing my sources”
You don’t seem to realize how important these sources are! For example, I and my colleagues are conducting a clinical trial of laughter as a cure for COVID. It has long been hypothesized that laughter is the best medicine, but who has really put it to the test?
With everyone busy preparing for the holiday festivities, we’ve been running short of doses to give to our trial participants (all volunteers!). Every donation of laughter is welcome and needed. Thank you for your most recent submission and for your consideration to make further contributions to our potentially groundbreaking scientific quest.
I needed that this morning HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
What no mention of the CCP ?**
** probably used by scare mongers because it looks like “CCCP’
This one’s a doozy — if you look at his Tw*tter feed, he has a habit of posting the exact same thing three times in a row in the space of 20 minutes or so.
Another moron who thinks other people don’t have better aim (s).
You need more pills and couch time.
I believe you are threatening people with violent attack.
@ MedicGram
“I’m going to give you the TRUTH in a nutshell. If it’s not posted, then this site is also a commie take over…”
Hmm… no.
“This is: The biggest Crime Against Humanity WoldWide in all history. C19 leak was a plandemic. Trump was in the way.”
Oh boy…
“The jab is NOT a vaccine, all those deaths, bodies piled up were wrongfully blanketed under COVID.”
You know, when I plan coups and genocides, I do it the old fashioned way.
“They mattered, innocent people who were left untreated until they would gasp for breath, which enabled the evil implemented protocol for ventilators all for reimbursement while our loved ones died at the hands of: Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, CDC, AMA, WHO all of you and other players involved must pay for your crimes.”
Oh boy… I am a terrorist once more ? I’m kind of getting used to the accusation. It’s kind of starting to be a bore.
“At NO time did God assign ANY of you to take on this sick, satanic act of controlling the population to save the world.”
God who ? Did I meet the guy ?
“AKA The New World Order! Next: That is not a vaccine, it is NOT meant to protect anyone. It is meant to suppress your immune system, 85% placebo, 15% is deadly. It is meant to K.I.L.L. CENSORSHIP GAVE ALL OF IT AWAY!”
Oh, yeah. Right. It did. How stupid of me not to have noticed. Censorship. Right…
“That’s the bottom line here and more of us are aware than not. Locked & loaded. We shall defend this country”
Not mine. But I’m pretty sure more people are determined to defend it against you.
“…beware, the sleeping giants including the military can turn at any moment to protect this land, we are a FREE America…”
So you’re telling me the army is supporting and planning a coup ?
“…and those who mess with that freedom will wish they hadn’t. By the way, Bill Gates is a college dropout, he has NO medical degree.”
As if that mattered in the least.
“How strange he, Fauci, big pharma, and more all partners, what a CONFLICT! Just saying….in a nutshell. Not sharing my sources, I’ve finished my investigation. FACTS /Real Science never lies. Opinions are for those who are in denial.”
I do not have “opinions”. I have certainties: you’re out of your mind.
@ Orac
This blog is priceless.
That reminds me of the ol’ Knights in Satan’s Service.
Meanwhile, the Nuge, who’s greatest contribution to society** is having brought a buffalo on stage, begs to differ.
**Unless the law comes down on the statutory rape claims.
It’s always good to stick to what is measurable. One thing that is always measurable is the flow of money.
I believe that the typical billionaire is now roughly 30% more wealthy than they were pre-pandemic. What a happy accident, eh? But we mustn’t suggest any potential wrong-doing here. Very unsporting to do so.
Concerning conspiracy theories: Wealthy powerful people would NEVER get together behind closed doors to plan how best to use their power, wealth and influence to gain yet more of the same. That simply would not be cricket, old chap.
It would be a display of extremely poor sportsmanship and would generally be frowned upon by everyone except bounders and cads.
The fabulously wealthy are generally thoroughly decent chaps.
We can all scoff at the tin-foil hat wearers – but something does not add up – and vast numbers of people are noticing.
Explain this – without trying to gaslight me:
I have supposedly just lived through a “deadly pandemic” – I have even personally contracted an infection of the pathogen in question.
But in the previous 2 years I have not been asked to attend a single funeral.
None of my friends that I know of have been to any funerals. My mother, who is in her mid 70s, has not been to any funerals among her cohort of friends.
I would say I am acquainted with roughly 200 people in the organization I work in. I do not know of reports of anyone who has been seriously ill, let alone died, in the previous 2 years.
So we have a deadly pandemic – where no-one dies, or is even seriously ill.
So maybe … just maybe … it’s not actually a deadly pandemic?
So if it isn’t … why is it being treated like it is? Who is pushing the narrative and why?
I can only come to the conclusion that there are other reasons this narrative is being pushed – that are not related to public health.
I have come to the conclusion it is about
1) A global digital ID system – booted up via vaccine passports
2) And retail banking system that will hook into the ID initiated in (1) that will use Central-bank backed digital currency (CBDC).
That’s what the whole thing is about.
(I had a friend in his 30s that died of flu, about 7 years ago – so I am well aware that flu viruses can be dangerous)
@Cthulu:
Survivorship Bias. Just because YOU aren’t acquainted with anyone who died doesn’t mean nobody has died.
Or do you think that the reports of crematoria not being able to keep up with the number of bodies were false?
@ Cthulhu
“I can only come to the conclusion that there are other reasons this narrative is being pushed – that are not related to public health. I have come to the conclusion it is about 1) A global digital ID system – booted up via vaccine passports”
Cut the crap. People have been dying. The funeral pyres in India were lighting up the night.
Your global digital ID system… oh boy.
Our governments do not need a pandemic to be control freaks.
Centralised France never did care about privacy to the extent that it should.
So before going on a WEF conspiracy nonsense, I’ve got people to educate in France about the importance of privacy. I showed them once how to use traceroute. They believed I was some kind of criminal for that.
People are that dumb.
You do not need a WEF conspiracy to push digital ID in a country.
And, no, in the end, this is a byproduct of technology.
It’s not a conspiracy.
When Napoleon invaded Switzerland, he started putting number on the houses in Geneva to give them addresses with numbers. People went out at time to remove the numbers.
Everything old is new.
Just the technology is changing.
But, no. It’s not a conspiracy.
@ Chtulhu
“I believe that the typical billionaire is now roughly 30% more wealthy than they were pre-pandemic. What a happy accident, eh? But we mustn’t suggest any potential wrong-doing here.”
Sorry. You cannot control the consequences of a pandemic.
Billionaires have no interest in engineering that kind of nonsense. No matter what their wealth are, they profit from political and economic stability.
A pandemic does not provide that.
Weapons dealer profit from instability.
Billionaires think otherwise.
“Concerning conspiracy theories: Wealthy powerful people would NEVER get together behind closed doors to plan how best to use their power, wealth and influence to gain yet more of the same. That simply would not be cricket, old chap.”
They always do. It’s their right.
The thing is, whatever they do, they should get democratic approval. That brings more transparency to the issue and levels the playing field.
It’s up to society to ensure that government plays its role in ensuring that.
And, yes, they’re not doing a good job about that.
But voters simply do not care about transparency.
Bottom line: no other way round than to convince people that transparency and accountability is important.
Which is why I like Switzerland: they get it. Which is why I do not like France: they positively do not get it. In fact, they want precisely the opposite of transparency and accountability. Because they’ve got this State fetish.
But, no. No conspiracy. Just the way the world is. As it could be worse (CCCP, CCP, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Central African ahem… Republic) I do complain, but only to some extent. Not like you do, throwing the baby with the bathwater.
@Cthulhu Not everybody dies because of COVID. You must know quite many people before that happens,
Have you seen any plans of global digital ID ? Any there are not stored in a central database. This is a very basic precaution,
Digital banking has been around very long time,it is a form of self service. Reason is as always, cost reduction.
@Arno @F68 @Julian Frost
Thousands die from the flu every year. A friend of mine died from the flu about 7 years ago. Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly? No – most people were oblivious.
The fact a number of people have died does not make it a “deadly pandemic” and justify all the ludicrous measures we have seen.
24/7 rolling virus fear porn
lockdowns
small / medium business closures
destruction of the service sector of the economy
job losses
huge increase in gov debt
“emergency powers” awarded to politicians by themselves, for themselves, allowing overriding of civil liberties hard-fought for, over 100s of years.
state coercion over vaccination and face coverings, and hyper-polarization of pro/anti-vax camps (divide & conquer psy-ops)
old folks left to die alone
old folks guilt tripped into “do not resuscitate orders” because they don’t want to be a burden on the health system
No hospital appointments – so serious diseases left un-diagnosed / untreated
No dental appointments
The education of children seriously and irreparably interrupted due to lockdowns
despair, mental health damage and suicides.
The UK government website promulgates that it does not consider COVID-19 a “high consequence infectious disease”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19
Anyone who opposes any or all of these measures can be conveniently classified as a “covid denier” or possibly even an anti-vaxxer. And therefore can have their opinions censored from the BBC, our state broadcaster, thanks to the “public health” policies they have in place.
In other words – no-one with any coherent opinions contrary to the official narrative will be allowed to air them on the BBC.
So please – do not try to take some “moral high ground” with me as you are gas-lighting me into rejecting the evidence of my own eyes and experience.
There IS a reason for all the things I have just itemized above – and I’m pretty damned sure it is NOT for the good of our health.
So – there be another reason for it. Get scratching your heads.
What could it be?
@Cthulu:
I remember SARS quite well, thank you very much.
The COVID death toll is already in the millions. And attacking me for pointing out that just because YOU didn’t know anyone who died doesn’t mean there ISN’T a pandemic is handwaving.
You can argue that the measures taken were ineffective or too intrusive, but denying that we are in a pandemic and suggesting some nefarious intent behind the restrictions is ludicrous.
@ Cthulhu
“Thousands die from the flu every year. A friend of mine died from the flu about 7 years ago. Apparently there was a flu pandemic in 2006. Does anyone remember this, particularly? No – most people were oblivious.”
Yeah. And, honestly, I do not care much about pandemics.
That doesn’t change that, yes, we took a hit. The news went wild some time ago about the pandemic of coffins we witnessed in Italy. About funeral pyres going berserk in India. And the covid deniers in my country never did deny that institutions for the elderly did took a hit: they were too glad to be able to bash the government to be deniers on that one.
You, on the other hand…
I mean, come on. Push your anti-restriction agenda if you want, but at least do not deny basic facts in order to push your agenda. The motivated reasoning is here glaringly way too obvious.
Own up to your name. Here were some of the slogans for Cthulhu’s last presidential campaigns:
“Cthulhu for President: Why settle for the lesser evil?”
“Equality through Insanity”
“Keep climate changing”
“Legalize human sacrifice”
“No lives matter”
Man up, Cthulhu… don’t be a sissy and play on denial of the death toll to pretend you’re a nice guy…
@ Chtulhu
You made a statement of opinion as fact ‘So we have a deadly pandemic – where no-one dies, or is even seriously ill’. I’m glad that you don’d know anyone who died.
It’s interesting that you think that your personal experience is proof of anything. Do you only ‘believe’ in things that you’ve seen with your own eyes?
@Cthulhu Have you considered why health care services are so strained ? Lots of unvaccinated people need care.
@David
“Do you only ‘believe’ in things that you’ve seen with your own eyes?”
No – you have inverted the regex: “Matching what you do want” is not the same as “not matching what you don’t want”
I see no reason to believe things on trust that I can neither quantify or verify myself – where the information in question is disseminated by authorities known to have previously (willfully) misinformed me.
In other words: Why take information on trust – from an entity you have good reason NOT to trust?
@F68
“to pretend you’re a nice guy”
I apologize to anyone who was left under that misapprehension.
Although I hope the irony of being told to “man up” by boomer high command isn’t lost on anyone.
You mean the one in 2009? Yah, if you look at the components in the flu vaccine, it will remind you; that’s still the H1N1 part.
@ Chtulhu
Who do you trust? Besides ‘things on trust that I can neither quantify or verify myself’?
@David
That’s a good question…
I don’t trust big pharma; but I don’t trust naturo-paths.
I don’t trust the politicians; but I don’t trust anarchists.
I don’t trust communists; but I don’t trust Nazis.
I don’t trust transgenderists; but I don’t trust radical feminists.
I don’t trust atheists; but I don’t trust the religious.
I don’t trust industrialists; but I don’t trust the environmentalists.
I don’t trust anyone that says “You must trust me implicitly”
I do trust my dog, and to slightly lesser extent my wife, but unfortunately they’re both idiots.
I might trust Linus Torvalds – maybe about 85%
Does this help?
@ Cthulhu
“I don’t trust anyone that says “You must trust me implicitly””
Fine. Fine. Fine.
That doesn’t change the fact that if public policy is to be implemented, we have to rely on an institution called Science.
You don’t trust Science. Fine.
Can you at least defend the existence of such an institution so that we may allow ourselves to converge on pragmatic knowledge ? So that we may make collective choices ?
Could you, moreover, require that Science always stand on the side of logic, evidence and reason, even if you do not fully understand what it means ?
If you concede these two points, I have no problem with you even doubting the existence of yourself.
The only thing we expect of you is that you do not hold public policy hostage to your unreasonable pseudo-unbelieving stance. We’re not hostage to you. We have a need to converge on Truth to make decisions. I you want to stay out of it, fine.
But if you interfere, we are going to expect you to do so with logic, evidence and reason.
Thank you.
DISCLAIMER: This was a message sponsored and financed by the Unholy Alliance of Big Pharma, politicians, atheists, industrialists and scientists. The ones that do not require you to trust them implicitly, but who would be quite happy if you let them generously give their contribution to the upbuilding of our common civilisation. The one you live in, and that generously allows you, since theocrats have been broadly curtailed and contained in the West, not to believe in any form of authority.
@F68
Academia has been slowly infiltrated over the past 25 years or so, with an ideology known as “postmodernism” – whereby there are no absolutes, everything is “in context” and a relative concept. This includes language – therefore words can have different meanings and definitions to different people and in different contexts.
So – it’s practically impossible to have any sort of rational debate with a postmodernist because the very tool you would use to debate with them (language) can supposedly be interpreted in a myriad of ways.
Two French physicists (Sokal & Bricmont) pulled off a hoax against these academic postmodernists – getting a paper published in a supposedly scholarly journal – which was later revealed to be absolute drivel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense
Does this mean the postmodernists were vanquished and their edifice of fashionable nonsense crumbled and disappeared forever?
No… These jokers are still running the academic show.
How can science exist in such an academic environment?
As far as I can tell – in order for scientists not to be “cancelled” for revealing truth incompatible with the ideologies of the postmodernists – they must participate in sophisticated double-think, whereby when a perceived threat to any fashionable nonsense emerges it has its signal quickly attenuated.
Exhibit A:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/irreversible-damage-the-transgender-craze-seducing-our-daughters/
So:
You want evidence – you get “evidence”.
You want truth – you get “truth”.
You want reason – you get “reason”
You want logic – you get “logic”.
There’s your “science”.
@Cthulhu Postmodernism was fad in philosophy departments. It did not infiltrate anything else.
I can only conclude that these people are crunching the raw, numeric data without actually reading the reported details. It’s full of reports such as “coughing up blood, significant hemoptysis — > cardiac arrest. started day after vaccine but likely related to ongoing progression of lung cancer”
As I expected. Your response is simply trite and diversionary. Sudden cardiac deaths by significant numbers of elite athletes within a short time frame who have all recently received similar, virtually untested vaccines simply begs to be addressed. You also ignored my truthful representation of Covid’s relatively modest effects on the overwhelming majority of the population who have no serious health impairments and/or are not aged. I believe you have confused the terms insolence and ignorance…..
“Sudden cardiac deaths by significant numbers of elite athletes”
I guess the diplomatic conundrum of whether to participate in Beijing is solved. No country has a team to send.
Elite athletes are pretty well-known.
If a significant number of them have died of cardiac arrest, we would know who they are.
So, can you name ten active members of major league sports teams who died in the past year?
And major league here just meaning, like, MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, whatever. And active just meaning … played in games, not retired, not coaches (who are older and not in so great of shape), etc.
Like, any cause of death, even? Let alone “cardiac”.
Alties, like Mike Adams in the US, talk about the European footballers who died suddenly after being vaccinated. HOWEVER he never mentions players’ names, team names or cities they play for- usually he says “German” players.. My SO watches sports channels which cover international events and THEY never bring up these devastating losses; I’ve had him keep an eye on the situation. I also watch/ read European and Japanese news – no reports on deaths there either. But then, Adams claims huge numbers of vaccine deaths in general.
-btw- I love your cat imagery. I have one that looks quite the same.
Yeah. I figure that maybe, just maybe, our interlocutor here will actually try to dig up names to prove me wrong, and then reflect on why they’re having trouble.
Also: yes, void cats are lovely. I’ve had this little wonderful ball of fuzz for a decade now and he’s still a friendly loveable little hole in space.
Are you sure you know what “trite” means? “Diversionaly” seems to be out the window.
You offer nothing of substance and just stomp your feet when you actually receive something in response. It’s about as useful as a “loudness” switch on an old integrated amp, for lack of a barnyard analogy.
^Right, right.
Show the hypothesis testing.
So yeah, f#£k the old and infirm and vulnerable. If we take them out of any equation because they’re obviously not important, then you can mostly say that hardly anyone gets seriously hurt by Covid.
As long as we’re discussing “elite athlete deaths”, don’t forget Shobushi:
https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/sports-news-coronavirus-japanese-sumo-wrestler-infected-with-covid-19-dies/352684
And all the other current and retired athletes who were pandemic victims:
http://outlookindia.com/website/story/sports-news-covid-19-complete-list-of-sports-deaths-due-to-coronavirus-pandemic/349879
Do you have a medical degree, have ANY experience working with vaccines or their creations, or any experience whatsoever in any for of epidemiology?
(And no, staying at a holiday inn express last night while fawning over cnn doesn’t count.)
Oh, please. I’m an MD/PhD scientist who runs a lab. I’ve also published in epidemiology.
Now tell me your qualifications.
Yeah, and fyi, that lab is funded by the US governement. I quote: “Over the last 20 years, his research has been funded by the NIH, the Department of Defense”.
Meanwhile Big Pharma most likely supports his BS as well. Isn’t that so, David?
And considering his relentless attempts to publish as much anti antivaxx propaganda as possible, it’s my guess that he gets paid for the amount of characters. Apparently a lot of bleating little wool means cash.
Seems better than having Newports and Natty Ice as support.
@Lucss Interesting thing is that Robert Kennedy Jr would not tell who funds him. My guess is, trial lawyers in for lawsuits
What did Mr Kennedy answer, when he was asked ‘Do you have a medical degree, have ANY experience working with vaccines or their creations, or any experience whatsoever in any for of epidemiology?’?
Lucas, it doesn’t seem like you understand how grant funding works. A granting organization gives a lab a set amount of money to complete a very specific study/set of studies. The granting organization does not get to choose the outcome of the study. When the period of the grant (1 year, 3 years or 5 years are usual) is over, the grantee may apply for an extension of the grant, which may or may not be granted. If the extension is not granted that’s the end of the relationship between the lab and the granting organization.
A granting organization doesn’t own a researcher, not during the period of the grant, and certainly not in perpetuity. So I really don’t understand why you think that organizations that gave grants in the past (“has been funded”) would have any say over a researcher’s hobbies?
As for your insinuations about “Big Pharma”; you can look that up. Payments to healthcare providers from Pharma companies must (by law) be reported and those reports made public. It’s called the Sunshine act.
Now to turn that question around, Lucas, are you being paid to post here? Or are you doing it of your own volition? Why do you assume everyone here is a Pharma Shill?
It’s sad, so sad to see someone fail the internet to such a degree. After you get your eyeglasses prescription checked and updated, I suggest you look around this site’s home page and follow a few links. Also, see either a gunsmith or mental health professional, possibly both, about your hair trigger and firing from the hip without opening your eyes.
Take a look at this video of Malone talking with children (the entire thing seems scripted) if you want to feel nauseated. (h/t cachepast)
What video?
There is no video, Polly.
“I invented mRNA technology 30 years ago”
“mRNA tech hasn’t been studied for long enough”
Can’t make this stuff up.
I keep trying to understand what Malone’s general ‘take-home message’ is, when he claims that he is the inventor. Is he saying that he’s sorry for inventing a ‘monster’? That he takes blame?
Or rather that he would have done it better?
Maybe he tries to convey that he is more of a specialist on the subject then you are?
Now it seems he’s been insulted by fellow traveler Alex Berenson, who dared to say that Malone didn’t invent mRNA vaccines (https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/bushwhacked-by-alex-berenson-on-fox)
Many are concerned about the rapid growth of misinformation about Covid ( see Dr DG twitter, Joe Biden) whilst others are not or work hard to get it to go viral…
Crap I’ve seen today:
— Dr Malone will appear on the Progressive Commentary Hour tonight 7pm US EST ( PRN.live; Gary Null.com) I’m not sure if it’s an interview with the decrepit host or a tape but either way, just as bad if Malone agreed to being interviewed or heard on such a heap of trash outlet.
— Children’s Health Defense features Jessica Rose on how vaccines destroy innate immunity; also how damaging mainstream media is; Steve Kitsch boils down RFK jr’s book to 5 minutes including “..Fauci is the leader of the largest cartel of organized crime to ever walk the face of the earth..”
–Natural News: because they are vaccinated, Democrats will be dying more in coming months thus tipping the balance of power to Republicans; turncoat Trump pushes boosters.
When was the first time NN said that vaccinated people would be dying in droves in the following months? Only it’s been a while, so you’d think it would have started by now.
Hey, has anyone done any covid deaths by political affiliation graphs?
@ NumberWang:
There are different ways to measure anti-vax beliefs based on political party but here are two:
–James Allen in Hospital Medical Director: Relationship Between Political Party and Death from Covid 19 Dec 2021. links to red/ blue line graph
— Covid vaccination- political party affiliation matters more than race and ethnicity
Oct 2021 Brookings
There were a state maps on television and statements about higher rates of illness/ death in red states, I can’t find a synopsis now.
Becker’s Hospital Review puts out daily on line positivity reports by state.
Also Mayo Clinic US Covid Tracking the Trends maps illness, vaccination etc.
@Narad
Please explain.
Aside from the messed-up markup, what part did you not understand? You stomp in, call the commentariat sheep, make an ass of yourself addressing our (tinu) gracious host, and now you’re confused?
@Narad
If you post one short reply, what else then that one short reply would I ask you to explain? Needless to ask me. But here we go again: “Seems better than having Newports and Natty Ice as support.” Please explain.
And have the decency not to call someone an “ass”. That is an insult. Certainly I earn more respect; who do you think you are?
Better you value people who bring you people to your senses, instead of this low-grade behavior.
“I earn more respect”
No, you are demanding respect without having earned it.
I guess that would be Lambert & Butler plus special brew if you were in the UK?
Pretty close.
@Narad
Oh, and while you’re here, please tell us who pays you for your hard work here.
And before you start insulting me again, this also is in no way ment to provoke. It just goes without saying that we need to be able to make our own consideration whether or not your outbursts here are questionable beforehand, in case you are a Big Pharma / US government stooge.
Please inform us on your background as well.
Ah, yes, the dumbest possible thing you could say. Perfect. Why would anybody pay to have you insulted? Some dime-a-dozen Malone toady? Get off your high horse.
With the extra touch of a shit-eating grin. Now, where was I, oh yes, the remark that you couldn’t figure out after your previous run-through of petulantly puking up the Pharma Shill Gambit:
That’s calling you Trailer Trash. Now tell me your qualifications.
Pitiful.
@Narad
Your expression “Pharma Shill Gambit” is the exact same expression your boss David Gorski uses so often.
And your collegue Dorit parrots the expression in about every reply she gives.
That’s why I requested Dorit – and now you too – to try and be a bit more creative and use her own words.
Obviously you guys all work for David. Please say it ain’t so.
Well that’s a new version of the shill gambit, that commenters who agree with me must all be working for me. Would that it were true! Sadly, however, my pharma lucre is missing in action and I cannot afford such largesse for my minions, who, alas, will have to agree with me because they actually agree with me.
If we all work for you, I want a vacation.
I bet Orac will be very willing to double what he pays each of us.
#jokesthatareeasytomisuse
Sure thing. No problem.
Still waiting on your qualifications, RV Hookup.
I want a raise.
@RS
No, I’m not demanding anything. You just need to show some manners; if really you think one has to “earn this”, does that not make you a low-life?
It makes me a short alphabetic sequence. And you should learn to write a person’s nym correctly if you expect to receive respect in return.
Besides which, I have never treated you with disrespect, at least not with your current sock, even though you are earning it here as elsewhere.
@rs
As soon as I start asking legitimate questions that apparently none of you weasels like, I’m getting intimidated and insulted. So there apparently is something you are trying to hide. Is this perhaps Big Pharma lobby through you as a mediator?
So again – and why would the question itself be a form of disrespect like you keep repeating – are you being payed for your work here or is this hobby?
GIVE US THE TRUTH!
Please be aware that people watch your replies. You could at least try to earn their trust.
“You weasels, low-lifes, tell me, are you Pharma shills? Are you paid, because I don’t like the fact that you support vaccines,” says the anti-vaccine activists. And “you’re insulting me just because I asked a legitimate question (apparently, accusing everyone of being shills)! How dare you.”
I hope you’re smarter than this and actually do see the problem with your behavior and are just trolling. The alternative seems even worse.
@Lucas:
You are NOT “asking legitimate questions”. You are making accusations in the form of questions. And when you were called out, you resorted to the defence of JAQing off. Nobody here is fooled.
Lucas:
You barge in here and accuse everyone of being paid off by Big Pharma, and then you’ve got the nerve to demand we show you some manners.
Well, here’s some manners: Please fuck off.
@TBruce
“fuck off”… oh please big boy (or girl), do stop your scolding.
It is so unprofessional and it is getting boring.
You’re asserting a profession now? Is that to divert from the payments you’re getting from Malone?
You said ‘respect’. Respect and politeness aren’t the same thing. You certainly have to earn respect. You could expect politeness but you, yourself, didn’t exactly charge in with a polite or respectful tone so it would be a bit unrealistic.
@NumberWang
What do you think is wrong with finding out who pays these people here? This in order that the readers here can decide for themselves what their opinions are worth.
Especially Big Pharma is lobbying through every ‘outlet’ possible, including the media, phycisians etc. It is so obviously rigged.
And meanwhile they keep injecting little children. So sickening.
Deference can be commanded (but Lucas has no position from which to command it from us).
Respect must be earned.
Politeness is a starting point, but may be discarded after incivility on the other party’s part. (As Lucas has already done.)
@NumberWang
I’m asking for the sort of respect not to get insulted here by a bunch of people that anxiously hide who they are with what motive.
Mind you, these people are trying to ‘sell’ mothers of young children experimental gene therapy injections. That can go deriously wrong, without a doubt.
Is it wrong to try and protect the very young that cannot protect themselves from money hungry wolves? What is your opinion?
@Lucas You are claiming that blog commenters are paid by Big Pharma. This is really ridiculous
@Lucas It is not experimental gene therapy. Gene therapy fix a lethal gene, vaccines elicit immunity. Gene therapy requires permanent alteration, mRNA in vaccines disappears aftet a day. Did you note the difference ?
FDA, of course, speak about vaccines, too
My opinion is that your first post was already impolite so you can’t really expect politeness in return. Or to put it in juvenile terms, you started it. No point sulking about it now.
As for finding out who pays the various commenters on this blog. How are you going to do that? You won’t believe anyone who says that they aren’t being paid by Orac or big Pharma. The only way you could possibly establish if there were any payments would be with examining the declared income of those commenters using their real names based on tax returns or similar. However, I don’t think you’d believe that either.
Since it is obviously impossible for you to be convinced. The logical conclusion is that you are deliberately asking in ill faith, which is another form of rudeness and disrespect.
As for ‘selling’. The vaccines are free in the UK. Wahey! Are you guys paying over there?
@JustaTech
“but Lucas has no position from which to command it from us”. Question: who is “us”?
Are you such a payed weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?
You people are sick, completely disgusting!
I would avoid any mirror if I were you.
@ Lucas
“Are you such a payed weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?”
Not paid. Broken and broke. Spending time on the net. That’s all.
Though I must thank Big Pharma and Roche in particular for having nice offices in Zug canton in Switzerland, the tax haven I confess loving, where my heart lies and where taxes are so low thanks to corporations like Roche.
In a sense, yeah, I was “paid” by Big Pharma because they were part of the ecosystem of that canton, helping lower the tax rate to ridiculously low amounts.
Corporate tax rates of 11.85 % indeed is the lowest tax rate in Switzerland.
So yeah, I’m definitely an Pharma Shill because of that.
We’ll see in 2022 how anti-vax or pro-vax Zug is. When they’ll vote.
They tend to always vote “No”, there. So, I guess, these people will end up being anti-vaxx Pharma Shills.
Once again, this is too over the top to not be an act. If not…well….time to quote Joel again: “You are SICK, SICK, SICK!”
The insouciant use of our host’s Christian name is a screaming tell, but he’s too repetitively schoolmarmish to be “credited” for anything. And the axiom of choice isn’t needed to find the rest of the socks, just giving a shit. I don’t, particularly.
@ Narad
“And the axiom of choice isn’t needed to find the rest of the socks, just giving a shit.”
I didn’t know the axiom of choice could be used that way…
This New Knowledge always stuns me.
Not paid either,if you insist. Check what gene therapy actually means,
@Julian Frost
“You are making accusations in the form of questions.” No Julian, a question is never an accusation.
If a question is felt as an accusation, it means that the true answer to that question unmasks an unfresh truth.
Think about it.
When did you stop torturing small animals?
@ Lucas (@ rs)
“A question is never an accusation.”
OK. Here goes:
Did you stop raping babies ?
Answer “Yes” or “No”.
@rs
Thanks for the opprtunity you give me to clear your issue! I will answer you.
I never started torturing small animals.
Is it perhaps now time to answer my question?
Well, Lucas, let me give you my observations.
I checked the last 4 blog posts here and this is the only one you have commented on. You first commented yesterday as a follow up to a question implying that the author wasn’t qualified to discuss issues of vaccine safety or effectiveness unless he was actively working on developing vaccines or studying epidemiology. That person gave no information about his own credentials.
You replied by implying that the author was being paid either by the Federal government or a pharmaceutical company to write this blog, implying that he didn’t genuinely believe the arguments he spent a lot of time writing out.
When we spotted this lame argument, a form of the ad hominem fallacy, you complained that we had given it a name (as if that somehow made it more valid).
Then you devolved into repeating the same argument, calling names, and whining about not getting respect.
Most of the commenters here have been engaged in an ongoing discussion on this and other blogs for years and have earned respect by showing a general understanding of science and medicine, logic and reason, and by usually making comments that are informative.
You have not earned that respect.
Nor have you said anything of substance about Malone’s arguments against vaccines.
And starting out your “contribution” by implying that the blog does not merit a serious response is not a good way to earn respect.
TTFN
@ squirrelelite
Thank you for sharing your observations.
Of course I cannot comment on non-answers to my questions or to insults. If, in your opinion, I haven’t answered whatever substantive question, please repeat it for me and I’ll give you the answer. I’ve got nothing to hide, have no any commercial interests here – the only interest that I have is completely in your benefit. So shoot.
About the author, he informed me on his background. Basically he’s a surgeon and a cell physiologist; this means he’s not qualified on virology, epidemiology, immunology or vaccinology. Period.
Nevertheless, that is exactly what these discussions here are about; they are centered around vaccines and vaxxing the population.
Now you tell me, why is this surgeon mingling with others on these subjects? Why doesn’t he just hire some specialists and let them give whatever advice on these matters here?
My credentials? Like I informed Mr. Gorski and others before: (Business) Economics, Marketing, Industrial Design. I have a specialization in Statistics.
I might tell you about my interests and hobbies, but that would have as much meaning as when Mr. Gorski informs us on his: irrelevant.
Very relevant is that I am quite well informed about what is going on at the WEF. In the end this isn’t really about a pandemic or vaccination an sich, it’s just a means. Follow the power, follow the money and you get to pawns like our good docter.
“You replied by implying that the author was being paid either by the Federal government or a pharmaceutical company to write this blog, implying that he didn’t genuinely believe the arguments he spent a lot of time writing out.” I commented on this one already so frequently, Squirrelelite. Please read back. I will repeat that “whose bread one eats his word one speaks”. Why would anyone invest so much time and effort to undermine the position of so many more then qualified and experienced phycisians and this in such dubious ways, when he would not have a financial interest in that? Makes no sense. Would our good docter perhaps be a philanthropist, a humanitarian, an advocate of civil rights? Such naivety.
And no, Squirrelelite, I’m not whining about not getting respect, those are your words. But since some of you don’t even know how to spell that word and bluntly insult others that ask questions they may not like, I give into consideration to at least show some form of decency.
“Nor have you said anything of substance about Malone’s arguments against vaccines.”
Look Squirrelelite, I am not a specialist here. So I’m not really gonna fight over these matters and neither should anyone here; no one here has the qualifications.
But if you insist, I may have a question for you. Have a look at: Study of mRNA Vaccine Formulation Against COVID-19 in Healthy Adults 18 Years of Age and Older – Full Text View – ClinicalTrials.gov
We are in the phase 3 clinical trial, aren’t we? A phase 4 clinical trial begins after a drug has been approved for use in the general population to rigorously test its efficacy and safety. Now, how can anyone yet conclude these vaccines are so safe? Mr. Mallone states that it is criminal to vaccinate our babies and young children. Tell me Squirrelelite, do you agree with him?
@Lucas So you have no expertise on vaccines either. You have not done any statistical analysis, either.
As for your common sense, Big Pharma does not pay blog commenters. Secondly someone may disagree with withour being a pharma shill.
@Lucas,
Since you replied to me, I’ll give you an answer. I still haven’t seen anything from you about the specific claims Malone made in his tweet and whether they are true or false.
As for respect, I noted these statements of yours.
I don’t see any reason for people to reply to your repeated questions about who is paying them since that is irrelevant to the truth value of Malone’s tweet statements and Orac’s reply to them.
FWIW, I am retired and have never received a government grant or worked for a pharmaceutical company unless you consider doing product resets in the pharmacy area of a Target store to count.
As a practicing physician and a medical researcher, the author of this blog has far more experience and training as a basis to discuss infectious diseases and the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. But the blog is open for anyone to comment regardless of their qualifications, including you and I.
I prefer to evaluate logic and evidence with some allowance for possible sources of bias.
The author derives inner satisfaction from writing these blogs as I do from my occasional comments. I choose to come back here regularly because I find it informative.
With Covid-19 case counts in Michigan running as high or higher than the peaks last winter and last summer, I suspect the author doesn’t do nearly as much “mingling” with other people as he might prefer.
Technically the Phase 3 trials for the 3 vaccines approved in the U.S. will be ongoing until 2 years after the last vaccine was administered sometime in the fall of 2022. But all that remains to be learned from them is some information about further infections and the longevity of the antibodies.
Phase 4 monitoring began a year ago when the vaccines received EUA approval and we began widespread vaccination of millions of people. And the effectiveness and safety data from Phase 4 has revealed risks of CVST and myocarditis at a much lower frequency than could have been detected in the Phase 3 trials.
But they don’t support Malone’s claims which seem partly to derive from radionuclide tracing in mice that was done prior to Phase 2 testing and rehashing longstanding gripes about vaccines.
And Malone seems to ignore that Covid-19 has ongoing effects on the brain, cardiovascular system that are much better documented in addition to the serious risk of hospitalization and death.
You don’t seem to be interested in discussing these matters. But perhaps you could bestir yourself and help me find out one thing.
Malone stated
<
blockquote>We need at least 5 years of testing/research before we can really understand the risks</blockquote
as if it were some sort of official standard. And he’s not the only person who cites the 5 year number.
But, AFAIK, it is just a generalization based on development of vaccines for diseases that are not as widespread and the need is not urgent enough to garner that government and pharma support you don’t like.
Do you know or can you find any official documentation supporting that 5 year number?
And no, now that we have completed Phase 1, 2 and 3 testing in adults, moved on to similar tests in adolescents and then on to 5-11 year olds, and those tests have shown no serious adverse effects and even the Phase 4 monitoring has shown only a low incidence of myocarditis with one death in a 22 year old, I do NOT consider it criminal to vaccinate our children in the tested age ranges.
The CDC has not approved vaccination for children younger than 5. And based on the preliminary results from Pfizer’s trial in that age group, that approval is unlikely in the near future without considerable additional research.
And Covid-19 deaths are up 4% at 1345 which fortunately is still much less than we were averaging a year ago.
Weasels, stooges and wolves, oh my!
Exactly so!
Any sincere reader that relates these expressions to their context, will agree.
If you don’t, you have a lot of explaining to do; perhaps you are willing to pick that up then, as none of the questions asked gets answered.
Btw, I will do the same scanning of Mr. Gorski’s text about the respected docter Malone and will report back on his relentless flood of denigration, meaningless speculation and suspicion.
I’ll show with a a link I’ll provide that this tactic of smearing isn’t new and what his goal is. Then it gets even more obvious what a weasel that Big Pharma payed David Gorski of yours is.
Oh, goody. The Pharma Shill Gambit, an obvious ad hominem that I’ve been describing since 2005.
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/08/pharma-shill-gambit.html
Seriously, dude. I have to ask: Where’s all my filthy pharma lucre? Why am I still seeing patients, operating, and trying desperately to fund my lab with repeated applications to NIH and other sources. I mean, why isn’t big pharma keeping my lab funded and me in postdocs until my comfortable retirement? Why did my car’s odometer just roll over to 100,000 miles the other day? Why don’t I get a spiffy new car, courtesy of my big pharma paymasters, on a regular basis long before the odometer even gets close to large numbers? Where’s my mansion? Why do I live in a nice but not overly large or lavish house, as you might expect a professor of surgery at a medical school to own?
Look, I’m not claiming to be poor. I’m fortunate and privileged. I am respected at work and make a comfortable salary, as most clinical faculty do (although I could probably make a lot more in private practice). But “big pharma paid”? Dammit, where’s all that filthy lucre so that I can get a spiffy new luxury car?
@ Orac
“Seriously, dude. I have to ask: Where’s all my filthy pharma lucre? Why am I still seeing patients, operating…”
Because you work for Hydra, Dr. Whitehall.
And, as we all know, discovery requires experimentation.
Hail Hydra !
@F68.10
“”A question is never an accusation.” OK. Here goes: Did you stop raping babies ? Answer “Yes” or “No”.”
Answer is: No.
At the most it may be a painful question in case I did rape babies. But if I’ve got nothing to hide and did not rape babies, the question just doesn’t make sense and I will then tell you so.
These boys and girls here trying to defend inappropriate behaviour of Mr. Gorski don’t even have the guts to answer some basic questions that provide their readers some relevant info.
Dr Gorski has said multiple times that he is not paid by Big Pharma, Have you not noticed that.
You’re missing the pint:
Answers are not the point – creating an atmosphere of doubt is the only goal.
I suggest that you actually read the question posed by F68.10.
@ Lucas
““”A question is never an accusation.” OK. Here goes: Did you stop raping babies ? Answer “Yes” or “No”.”
Answer is: No.”
Thank you for the straight answer.
Much appreciated.
@rs
Question to Joseph Mengele: did you in your profession as a docter assist Mr. Hitler’s Nazi regime?
– That is an accusation!
No, it is a question for you to answer, so that we can be informed about your relation to said regime and draw our own conclusions about you and your motivation.
On the one hand you guys are not aware about what’s going on in the real world, on the other you support the wrong side and hide your motives. Isn’t that already corrupt?
The real motive currently trying to tell you some facts, like what gene therapy actually is. People may disagree you because you do not know anything, so know.
Lucas, here are a few exampes of you disguising accusations as questions. Your own words.
“Meanwhile Big Pharma most likely supports [Orac’s] BS as well. Isn’t that so, David?”
To Narad: “Oh, and while you’re here, please tell us who pays you for your hard work here…Please inform us on your background as well.” Not strictly a question, but definitely an accusation.
“So there apparently is something you are trying to hide. Is this perhaps Big Pharma lobby through you as a mediator?”
“What do you think is wrong with finding out who pays these people here?” Assumes we are being paid to do this.
“Is it wrong to try and protect the very young that cannot protect themselves from money hungry wolves?” Assumes that the people promoting vaccination are “money hungry wolves”.
To JustaTech: “Are you such a [paid] weasel too as well? It’s a conglomerate?” Assumes some of the commenters here are paid to promote vaccines.
Your Mengele scenario above is frankly disingenuous and spurious.
@Julian Frost
Time to open your eyes Julian, David is a small but dangerous weasel to our society.
He plays a role as a payed advisor. Nothing wrong with that in itself, except that the organisations that pay him and his team have some really nasty intentions for you and me. It is their propaganda that David is parroting. That is why he uses these vicious tactics against specialized and experienced phycisians with a different opinion.
And of course Julian do I try and pull the words out of the mouths of these cheaters here, as they keep hiding their motives. Wouldn’t you? And about hese motives, you always first have to follow the money. It’s not that difficult, Julian.
Your and my government, as well as Big Pharma and our media cannot be trusted at all. Time to do your own research, Julian.
And Julian, you mentioned a ‘Mengele scenario’, not me. However, if we don’t wake up now, you will no doubt see that there will be a Mengele scenario. It is in fact spot on.
Like Cthulhu here says: “If only you knew how bad things really were.”
Time to start reading, Julian. Begin with the website of the WEF. After that you investigate the plans of the UN, IMF and WHO. They are all in line, and what they are after is a power grab with you ending up as a slave if you’re lucky.
Do you have relatives you love, Julian? Then for their sake I hope you start and use your brains now.
@ Lucas
“Time to start reading, Julian. Begin with the website of the WEF. After that you investigate the plans of the UN, IMF and WHO. They are all in line…”
Are they ? That’s great !!!
Champaaaaaagne !
“…and what they are after is a power grab with you ending up as a slave if you’re lucky.”
I don’t think so. WEF, UN, IMF and WHO are overall doing a great job. Of course, I may disagree on many things, but I’m quite happy that they are playing their role.
@Lucas:
And Julian, you mentioned a ‘Mengele scenario’, not me.
I was referring to your comment of December 23, 2021 at 7:43 am, where you wrote:
You were the one who brought up Mengele. You are arguing in bad faith.
@Lucas Interesting thing is that you do not try to refute anything Dr Gorski says. If it is propaganda,it must be wrong.
Lucas:
You know what’s corrupt? Encouraging people to endanger the lives of themselves and others by lying about vaccines, just to satisfy some twisted need to be “edgy” or “in the know”.
Lying? Yes, I went there. Or would you prefer psychotically delusional?
I don’t think the veracity of the discoveries made by Edward Jenner and others are in question here.
What is in question is the bureaucracy being constructed on a global scale, concerning the vaccination status of an individual.
The accusation is that authorities are knowingly constructing this bureaucracy in bad faith – claiming it is about public health, when really it is about social control – and is the boot-sequence stage, to a set of ever more totalitarian further control measures.
Are those in authority using the “unassailable good” of public health measures to side-band a different agenda? Then brow-beating any critics of the agenda with a straw man response of being a science denier and a threat to the public good.
@Cthulhu Vaccination prevents COVID, thus vaccination status monitoring.No other purposes here.
The power elite want to construct a social control matrix based on two main mechanisms: Social control via
– centrally administered digital identity
– centrally administered digital money
Vaccination status is the chosen vector to implement the first.
The pro-vax / anti-vax flame wars are a complete red-herring.
Someone who is pro the “social control matrix” is functionally equivalent to a pro-vaxxer – which also provides them with perfect plausible deniability: It’s all about public health maaaan.
Conversely – you cannot argue against the social control matrix, without being accused of being anti-vax – so your arguments are based in science denial and can be conveniently ignored.
If you are pro vaccination – yet have yet to notice how the social aspects of vaccination are being used for coercion and segregation – you are simply a useful idiot, under the control of the social control matrix constructors.
If only you knew how bad things really were.
Just like they’re keeping a registry and coming for my guns? People like you have been selling variations of this same paranoid theme since I was a kid. I call it the Myth of the Hypercompetent Government. It’s an instant tell that you have never worked in government or the intelligence agencies. I have. They’re in total disarray on a good day.
Plot yourself a graph of “Trust in the Authorities” vs “Knowledge of history”
A difficult task I realise, for someone raised in the United States of Amnesia.
Someone has watched too many Bourne movies.
Bring back bullion I say. There’s nothing like shaving a bit of gold from a block the size of a brick to make you feel free. Mind you, wallets will have to be a bit bigger.
“you cannot argue against the social control matrix, without being accused of being anti-vax”
Hmmmm. It depends on whether you bring a load of poorly thought out conspiracy theories to the table or not. You could just be viewed as selfish.
I hope the irony of being accused of acting selfishly, in the act of resisting coercion by psychopaths isn’t lost on anybody.
You don’t think it’s selfish to put your own feelings above the health and lives of others?
Actually digital identity means that your digital payments are safe, nobody can take money from your account using forged credentials
You of course can oppose surveillance state. Check NSA and FBI
Ah … “Für Ihre Sicherheit” as they used to say in Germany.
Who can change the balance of you account is dependent entirely on who controls the private cryptographic keys.
Spoiler: With Central-Bank backed digital currency (CBDC) – it won’t be you, the account holder.
Only you yourself know your private cryptograhic key. This is why it is private.
I reside in the UK – so I have never even seen a gun IRL (Other than a shotgun)
Yes – they created a registry – then removed them all. 😉
My bunch of keys has a penknife on it. A work colleague once ask me if I was concerned about being stopped by the police in possession of such a weapon.
(I sometimes peel oranges with it – so I do present a real and present danger to citrus fruit)
The government doesn’t have to be hypercompetent – just competent enough.
“Oi mate, you got a loisence for that butter-knife permit?”
Go and read the Declaration of Independence, again.
How profound. You sure told me.
Thanks. Profundity is my specialty.
Merry Christmas.
If you live in UK, check GCHQ. If goverment want to spy you, excuse is not public health,
@Cthulhu
Finally someone who actually knows what is going on.
If only more people were like you, here they nearly all seem to be in a deep sleep.
I repeat your words here, because what you say is of vital importance for every citizen. Your personal freedom is at stake. Take it from me as an insider of the WEF or just read it for yourself, the info is all there. Indeed this is exactly what is going on:
“The power elite want to construct a social control matrix based on two main mechanisms: Social control via
– centrally administered digital identity
– centrally administered digital money
Vaccination status is the chosen vector to implement the first.
The pro-vax / anti-vax flame wars are a complete red-herring.”
Even though I’ve been saying this in other words here, people do not (want to) notice; a famous psychologist explains this as mass hypnosis.
We are now in the phase in which the vaccinated is set up against the unvaccinated; just like Germans were set up against Jews back then. Stupid people, are you really no more then puppets on a string?
Mr. Gorski however isn’t a fool. And he clearly profits from the system set up for the goal you described. A goal in which they fulfill a dirty role, instead of being neutral or better: to speak out against what’s happening.
It is just like the Nazi docters did back then. Like I said ten times, or so, already: he is a weasel.
Unfortunately he and his team work against our and even their own long term interests. In fact it’s beyond imagination.
So yes:
“If only you knew how bad things really were.”
True, and in fact it will get way worse.
Thanks for the endorsement.
I can’t understand what is motivating Mr. Gorski either.
Are such people simply the nerds that calculated the time of the solar eclipse, only to pass the information to the high-priests, in order to terrify the population?
Maybe he sees value in their vision of the World to come?
As you say – he is no fool.
I really don’t know …
@ Cthulhu
“Are such people simply the nerds that calculated the time of the solar eclipse.”
The nerds that calculate the time of the solar eclipse are responsible for the development of your whole science and hence civilisation. Since Antiquity.
They don’t just waste their time sitting at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.
Show some respect, will ya’ ?
@F68.10
Antarctic ocean, to be pedantic. And don’t be bringing MY science and civilization into it, thank you.
@ Cthulhu
“Antarctic ocean, to be pedantic. And don’t be bringing MY science and civilization into it, thank you.”
Well, yeah, I did read your opinion piece in the Gorafi.
I must say, I do believe that OUR science and civilisation, driven by the feats of astronomers over the ages, is a bit more worthwile than your political opinions.
The Southern Ocean starts at S60°, to be more pedantic.
Transgender?
Dr Gorski is a cancer surgeon and pays his website from his own pocket
You are a WEF insider ? A CEO of a bg company ?
As I told Chulhu before digital identity is about safety of digital transactions. There is no database of digital identities.
And I repeat: If government wants to spy you, excuse is not public health,
@TBruce
“Encouraging people to endanger the lives of themselves and others by lying about vaccines”
What a stupid reply. I am hardly saying anything about these vaccines. Where did you read that?
I advice you to read the words of ‘Cthulhu’ here in this forum carefully and do your own investigation. Like I said, this isn’t really about vaccines or public health.
Time to wake up and start reading.
I can only concur – although I am a bit biased.
Here’s an interesting place to start: Larry & Carstens’ Excellent Pandemic
I wasn’t referring to you in particular, although I’m pretty sure you’re in that group. Oh yes, that reply of “U stoopid” has certainly put me in my place.
I guess I’ll wipe my tears with Big Pharma banknotes.
Or stop nutting around,
@NumberWang
“Hmmmm. It depends on whether you bring a load of poorly thought out conspiracy theories to the table or not. You could just be viewed as selfish.”
Hmmmm no, it does not depend. Like Edward Snowden says: “The Worst Conspiracies Are In Plain Sight”.
The fact that you don’t see what is going on is your problem. It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy. And you can read about it yourself at the official websites. Time to get out of your hypnosis, NumberWang?
Then why are you pestering everyone here?
@ Narad
“The fact that you don’t see what is going on is your problem.” — Lucas
“Then why are you pestering everyone here?” — Narad
Because it’s his problem.
Logic.
Malone: “If you follow the money, it all traces back to BlackRock and the Vanguard Group, the two largest asset management firms in the world, which also control Big Pharma.12 They’re at the top of a pyramid that controls basically everything, but you don’t hear about their terrifying monopoly because they also own the media.”
Right, just call anyone who defies you and your drug pushers conspiracy theorists.
What — you actually think the current censorship policies are ok?? You really think censorship is good for a supposedly democratic and scientific society?
I am starting to wonder if Orac is one of Fauci’s army of propagandists. How can anyone think ALL vaccines are safe? How can anyone think the drug industry does not influence our government?
@Indie Rebel
To make things worse: your freedom is at stake.
These people have united. That is why this non chosen organisation like the WEF, in which the most powerful organisations and influencers are represented, has become so powerful. Its plans are being rolled out now, the intentions are evil.
“How can anyone think ALL vaccines are safe? How can anyone think the drug industry does not influence our government?”
What’s your definition of safe? Would you rather have a dangerous vaccine with a 1/1000 chance of death, or the disease with 1/100 chance of death? How about surgery? Would you trade two weeks of life for an operation that has a 50/50 chance of killing you, but, if successful, you’ll live for another thirty years?
Of course the drug industry influences your government. So does the food industry, the oil industry and every other industry big enough to have a presence. You’ll also find plenty of anti-vax influence in government too. Not to mention the gun lobby. I suggest that you vote for politicians who champion independent science reviews by people who know what they are talking about. Who value organisations like the FDA for what they can do rather than trying to make political pawns out of them.
You write ‘Right, just call anyone who defies you and your drug pushers conspiracy theorists’ but also want to label those who call you out ‘Fauci’s army of propagandists’. Strange how that happens.
Blackrock and Vanguard holds minority interests, as a part of balanced portfolio. This is not controlling.
Nobody have censored Malone, have you noticed. It is just that nobody believes him.
More current Malone:
HTH. HAND. FOADIAF.
@all readers, @Orac
Please have a look at this informative Youtube video about manipulation; its content is neutral, not censored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
Now relate what you heard in the video to the content of the article of David Gorski here (just like the content of his other blogs, btw). Let me know what is your conclusion.
To sum up a few of his personal attacks in the article – without giving any (!) evidence whatsoever – on docter Malone:
“I do question his qualifications these days”
“went full antivaccine”
“antivax disinformation”
“spreading disinformation”
“went into conspiracy theories”
“Dr. Malone was whining that Wikipedia was “erasing him””
“assisting the antivaccine movement targeting Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn with disinformation”
“your turn to the Dark Side”
“Gorski: debunking COVID-19 conspiracy nonsense about the vaccines”
“Do you think he’s wrong or not qualified enough for you? Answer: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, I do question his qualifications these days.”
“If the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone doesn’t know that, then he’s definitely not qualified, and if he does know that he’s a liar.”
“slasher” lie and of course, Malone is parroting it.”
“Suggesting he feels slighted because he hasn’t been acknowledged”
“Malone is indisputably antivax right now.”
“Joe Mercola (another physician), a quack”
And about Dr. Malone’s motivation Gorski says:
– “culturally relevant and famous in a way that he had never achieved before and can probably never achieve in any other way”
We won’t ask where Gorski gets all of his whisdom. He even has no background in virology, immunology or vaccinology.
Unlike dr. Robert Malone; he is a virologist and an immunologist who’s work has focused on mRNA technology, pharmaceuticals, and drug repurposing research. He has an extended track record, with about 100 scientific publications with over 11,477 citations of those peer reviewed publications.
Please feel free to share with us if you find any underpinning of his accusations. I couldn’t find any.
Apparently the truth doens’t count, otherwise we would have read Gorski’s scientific substantiation. But it’s not there, despite the very long story he wrote.
So ask yourself, isn’t the one and only goal of Gorski to try and smear the reputation of a highly experienced and knowledgable docter?
And why? Because dr. Malone goes against the mainstream narrative.
Be careful people.
Sharyl Attkisson? You really are hilarious.
I’ll say.
It takes all my strength not to tremble in fear from your so prophetic diagnosis of something. I’ll be oh so careful. No and No to your questions. I ought not go on but I will.
Orac is by far the more neutral thinker and observer of reality than Attkisson. Not even close. Me, I just don’t think you comprehend well. It is pointless to ingest your opinion much farther unless to note the derision of fact it denotes. Yea yea, Gorski said some terse and unkind things. Boo hoo. Really is this your gripe on a private blog — you tender thing. Anyway, I’ll be oh so careful of course and get me some booster!
The REAL S. Attkisson hates science, evidence, government, health, and experts who know what they are talking about …
https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-vaccine-sharyl-attkisson-threatens-to-sue-dr-peter-hotez-for-defamation/
You still do not say why these statements are wrong. If they are propaganda, they should be obviously false
@JustaTech
“Lucas, it doesn’t seem like you understand how grant funding works… Now to turn that question around, Lucas, are you being paid to post here? Or are you doing it of your own volition?”
You make me laugh. We did lots of funding work, mostly research – public and private. Now you come and tell me how that works.
Well, in what kind of a phantasy world do you live, if for one minute you have the impression there is no relation between the granting and the researcher’s PR or relationship with the sponsor. And for that matter, even the outcome of that research is often payed for, especially if politics is involved. Are you a student, JustaTech?
With regard to that “over the last 20 years, Gorski’s research has been funded by the NIH, the Department of Defense”. And meanwhile I guess by Big Pharma too, at least Gorski hasn’t denied it.
And please, don’t talk to me about Big Pharma. Isn’t f.e. Pfizer just one big criminal organization with billions payed in fines and settlements? Comon, it’s 2021 and next year will be even worse.
I already answered your last question about being paid to post here. Answer is no.
The only wish I have is that you guys finally wake up and do your homework. We are in the midst of an authoritarian power grab and be it small, Gorski and his team are part of it. We all need to see what’s going on in order to try and halt this.
Do your own research, read Dr Gorski’s papers in Pubmed and check their funding. Report Big Pharma funding.
Have you ever applied for a grant ? Report your experience.
@Orac
“Look, I’m not claiming to be poor. I’m fortunate and privileged. I am respected at work and make a comfortable salary, as most clinical faculty do (although I could probably make a lot more in private practice). But “big pharma paid”? Dammit, where’s all that filthy lucre so that I can get a spiffy new luxury car?”
I never said that you are big pharma paid, I asked this. Still this is no answer.
And we have more then covered your financial ties to the US government, see the previous topic. You are without a doubt dependent.
In order to keep your fortune, I hope you have a good financial advisor. The middle class, of which you’re a part, will be the biggest looser without a doubt
Spare me. You were JAQing off.
@Orac
“Spare me. You were JAQing off.”
Still no answer…
No one, and certainly no fat paid surgeon, would write endless stories without real content, just attacking and insulting.
It would otherwise come down to an expensive hobby from someone in need of a shrink.
“would write endless stories without real content, just attacking and insulting.”
Now, what does that remind me of?
There is a challenge for you: if Dr Gorski were a pharma shill, his claims would be wrong; Big Pharma cannot utter a true statement. So enlighten us, and tell us which claim is wrong and why.
Actually Wayne State University is funded by Michigan State
@Narad
“Then why are you pestering everyone here?”
I’m not going to repeat myself, but I hate to see an evil plan being rolled out in this world, more specifically and starting in the west. And I loath the people here that are willingly part of it.
Look, I can go whenever to wherever I want. But fleeing the country and part of the world (Europe) I grew up in because of a group of powerhungry sociopaths, is definately worth fighting against.
Only if the bigger part of society wakes up in time these morons will not be able to take control over your life and mine. But that’s a small and closing opportunity.
Tell me, have you any idea what I’m talking about?
@ Lucas
“Only if the bigger part of society wakes up in time these morons will not be able to take control over your life and mine. But that’s a small and closing opportunity. Tell me, have you any idea what I’m talking about?”
I believe you believe that Satan is reigning in this world.
“That is why this non chosen organisation like the WEF, in which the most powerful organisations and influencers are represented, has become so powerful. Its plans are being rolled out now, the intentions are evil.”
I’m pro-WEF.
Switzerland is blessed country. Davos is a magnificent place.
And yes, “elites” have a right to talk about the state of world affairs.
It’s the opposite that would be tremendously worrying.
It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.
The first article I saw on the WEF homepage was about problems with supply chains during the pandemic.
Those evil, evil bastards.
Everyone got enough bog roll in for Christmas?
Great, you’re going to save the world by jabbering idiotically about everybody at RI being on the take. Makes perfect sense.
@F68.10
“I’m pro-WEF.
And yes, “elites” have a right to talk about the state of world affairs.”
Ask yourself, would you have been ‘pro-Nazi’ back then, like most Germans?
No? If you’re so sure, then try and motivate why not. I’m listening.
Globalists have late stage plans to track everyone and everything. And they want you to believe your world is somehow going to be better. Does that makes sense to you? The Great Reset means the elites gain control over your life. But hey, since you’re pro-WEF now, don’t complain later.
Ignorance – a blessing now, a pain later
Christ, you fall off the turnip truck and think you’re on to something new rather than peddling the same bag of turds that’s been regifted far too many times already.
@ Lucas
“Ask yourself, would you have been ‘pro-Nazi’ back then, like most Germans? No? If you’re so sure, then try and motivate why not. I’m listening.”
Ok. So: No. And the reason is very simple. Given my records, I would have been murdered in Aktion T4.
But thank you for asking.
“Globalists have late stage plans to track everyone and everything.”
Bullsh-t. They have no such plans.
“And they want you to believe your world is somehow going to be better.”
No one is asking you to “believe” the world is somehow going to be better.
In fact, I believe the world is heading for a war. The AfPak + China situation is bound to degenerate very sensibly, and I wouldn’t be surprised a nuke did go off in the next 30 years.
“Does that makes sense to you? The Great Reset means the elites gain control over your life. But hey, since you’re pro-WEF now, don’t complain later.”
The Great Reset is nothing like what you pretend it to be.
Again. I’m pro-WEF.
“Ignorance – a blessing now, a pain later”
Speak for yourself, Spinoza.
No.
@Lucas
But you are repeating yourself and it isn’t even you. You repeat the lines of an ignorant and paranoid club. You don’t even know it. Us, wel know what you are talking about and respond to the delusional with consternation and some love for those who deserve it. BTW, what kind of arrogance drink did you have this week?
Your knowledge and perspective is really not that special. I loath the liars and speculators of the anti-vaxx crowd. Yeah, I can say things too!
I know exactly what you are thinking and just laugh. We are sheeple right and you know best because something magic and unicorny.
I applaud the folks here who attempt to apply reason to help the paranoid. It is marvelous and helps me understand better what paranoid is and the COVID.
@F68.10
Good old Switserland, the bastion that does not need to surrender. How I miss it.
@ Lucas
“Good old Switserland, the bastion that does not need to surrender. How I miss it.”
Well, of course it needs not surrender. Let me explain.
Point 1: Planes are taking off and landing in the side of the mountains. Infrastructure, you know…
Point 2: Every male keeps their military weapons at home. In the closet. Government mandates it.
Point 3: People do not fight in Switzerland. They used to hire the swiss to do the fighting…
Point 4: Until they were coerced in neutrality for Eternity… at the Vienna Congress
Point 5: Then, when the french get kicked in the balls by the germans around 1870, it’s the french who surrendered and took refuge in Switzerland (cf. general Bourbaki, huge epic story…)
Point 6: Yes. They did not fight WW1 and WW2. Because they were neutral. And proudly so. They focused on building their infrastructure while the rest of the world was destroying their own. Y’a know, that fit und gesund mentality…
Point 7: When Europe goes into Civilisational Suicide Mode, it’s not that bad of an idea of having an island of cool-headed sanity in the lot.
Point 8: Yes, they piled up gold in WW2. And rightly so. And, no, they only give back the money to the owners. And rightly so. Murdered in the camps ? That sucks. But they did deal with the matter later on.
But tell me… when did the US join WW1 ? And why did the US wait for december 1941 to join WW2 given that the peak of Holocaust was 1942 ?
Another good ol’ country that also need not surrender is Poland. No one is ever asking Poland to surrender. Because no one cares about the answer.
BTW, how did the pullout from Kabul go ?? Smooth ??
Surrendering is an art the US should try perfecting a bit…
Yada yada yada…
@F68.10
“But tell me… when did the US join WW1 ? And why did the US wait for december 1941 to join WW2 given that the peak of Holocaust was 1942 ?
BTW, how did the pullout from Kabul go ?? Smooth ??”
I’m Dutch. Best you ask an American how the pullout from Kabul went. However, quite a few Dutch soldiers were not really able to leave the country (well, who expected differently from them anyway?).
The US joined WW1 in April 1917, after a U-boat sank a British ocean liner including somewhat over a 100 Americans on board. In the US, that intended to stay neutral just like the Dutch were during this war, public opinion on neutrality changed and after a threat of a German – Mexican coalition, Wilson came with his declaration of war against Germany.
About WW2, the Americans really didn’t go to war out of sympathy for the persecution of Jews, Jehova’s witnesses, Gypsies, the crippled or the Polaks & Polkas. It was the attack on Pearl Harbor that directly invited them to that war. Ah well, Japan’s expansion in the Pacific throughout 1941 had already made them nervous.
Unfortunately my country was pulled into this war against its intention. Our government’s kissing up of Hitler, even calling him “friend”, didn’t help; once this friend bombed our beautiful city Rotterdam, we realized that Hitler was an enemy. Whoo.
Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites, but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.
Currently it is the same group of elites grabbing power again, on a global scale but again starting in Europe. And just like the run-up to WW2 people are in denial.
I wander how many will be victim this time.
Add History to the list of subjects you are ignorant on, Lucas.
The sinking of the Lusitania did cause a lot of anger, but she was carrying ammunition, and was a legitimate target.
It was in fact the Zimmermann telegram that led the U.S. to join the war.
Finally, the Rothschilds.
@ Lucas
Ah… the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands… one of my main Heroic Epic.
But, of course, you cannot know what it means for planes to take off and land in the sides of mountains. A bit too flat over there…
“Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites…”
No. Driven by deep-seated ideological tensions in the western world. The “powerful elites” were not in control of that. And never could have been…
“…but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.”
Dumb marxistoïd iconography painting “working-class people” as saints.
To me, sorry, that’s part of a denialist historiography.
“Currently it is the same group of elites grabbing power again, on a global scale but again starting in Europe. And just like the run-up to WW2 people are in denial.
I wander how many will be victim this time.”
You’re 100 % wrong.
Elites are powerless against the dynamics of the modern world. They control just about zilch.
They’re merely trying to keep the house together and in order.
And they’re failing miserably at that task.
The modern world is very simple:
One hemisphere finds it cool to throw rockets on Mars.
The other hemisphere finds it cool throw rocks on women.
The situation is very simple, really.
Reminds me of the old….adage? Joke?
Hierarchies are like a tree full of monkeys. The ones at the top look down and see a bunch of smiling faces. The ones at the bottom look up and see nothing but arseholes.
Doesn’t matter where you start in the tree. Once you get to the top, most people think you’re an arse.
@NumberWang
“The first article I saw on the WEF homepage was about problems with supply chains during the pandemic.
Those evil, evil bastards.”
The first article I saw was about the reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions, pumped full of pills, eating their laboratory-created meat in hyper-technical, digitally networked “smart cities”.
No wait,
The first article I saw was about a German that once upon a time:
– started WW1,
– started WW2
– started the chaos ahead.
Oh, and it was about the three times people slept, as they should in a fairy tale.
“reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Have you looked at the companies on the WEF partnership list?
What am I saying? Of course you haven’t.
I certanly want to see that article. Losing of possessions and being drugged is not part of smart city
@F68.10
“It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.”
– What is my utopia then? Freedom?
@ Lucas
““It’s your fantasised utopia that is terrifying.”
– What is my utopia then? Freedom?”
You want freedom to blow up social institutions. Freedom to send countries in a downwards spiral of dysfunctional anomia, where plagues, misery, strife and despair is considered freedom.
I want freedom to organise our societies and get them prosperous. Which is why I defend the freedom of elites to associate, to devise solutions, and defend the right to deliberate about the solutions these elites bring to the table.
This is called liberal democracy.
I defend freedom.
You don’t.
And I do not defend the right of elites to evade discussion and public deliberation of their thesis. Which, to me, is what defines the right of the right wing. Well, the old-fashioned one, at least. Not the modern rabble rousing juggernaut of stupidity.
You should read “The Grand Inquisitor” by Fyodor Dostoïevski.
It’s short.
And it will make you grow up.
@Julian Frost
“Add History to the list of subjects you are ignorant on, Lucas.
The sinking of the Lusitania did cause a lot of anger, but she was carrying ammunition, and was a legitimate target.
It was in fact the Zimmermann telegram that led the U.S. to join the war.”
Dear Julian, forgot what the Zimmermann telegram was about?
I help you, it was a request from German foreign minsister Arthur Zimmermann to persuade Mexico to join forces with Germany.
Just like I wrote the moment was when Wilson came with his declaration. Now, who doesn’t know History, Julian?
One other point Julian, things aren’t always that black or white. Suppose we are good neighbours. But at some point I start provocing you with loud music in the middle of the night, slam the door in your face, whatever. Three days later you tell me I’m an asswhole. The next moment I kick you in the you know what.
Question: when did our ‘war’ start? Was this when our relation started to corrupt with the loud music or was it that particular moment I kicked you?
You’ll understand now.
And please pay more attention to the text next time, Julian. I did not say that WW2 started with the sinking of the Lusitania. But I had to mention the fact, as it contributed indirectly to the entry of the United States into World War I. Would you not have mentioned that fact, Julian?
At https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lusitania-British-ship you read: “… 20 minutes the Lusitania had sunk, and 1,198 people were drowned. The loss of the liner and so many of its passengers, including 128 U.S. citizens”. Now, the ship did also have some rifle ammunition and shells. Nothing unusual with that.
If this is why you call the action “legitimate”, I’m not too sure about your moral compass, Julian.
Despite your false correction, I do hope you know History, Julian. It is going to repeat and that is the exact reason I know History.
Don’t you think it is time you share your insights with the ignorant around you, Julian?
@ Lucas
“Question: when did our ‘war’ start? Was this when our relation started to corrupt with the loud music or was it that particular moment I kicked you? You’ll understand now.”
OK. I get it: It’s Poland that started the war against Germany…
After all, it’s indeed what the New York Times wrote…
@F68.10
“Unfortunately history does repeat. World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites…”
No. Driven by deep-seated ideological tensions in the western world. The “powerful elites” were not in control of that. And never could have been…
“…but played out on the ground by regular working-class people whose motivations were as diverse as they were.”
Dumb marxistoïd iconography painting “working-class people” as saints.”
You aren’t making any sense with your incoherent rhetoric. Ask yourself who started WW2, or any war for that matter? Is it the leader of a country or is it his citizens?
“The “powerful elites” were not in control of deep-seated ideological tensions”, you say. Even though this is plain nonsense, this doesn’t say anything about the motivation of the elites that started this war, does it?
And no, elites never go to war. It is basically and always the working class that does that job for them. Who else? I think Marx has nothing to do with that, does he?
What were these deep-seated ideological tensions in Europe anyway in your opinion? I think you’re just raving.
We have Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England to name a few. And there you found these deep-seated ideological tensions of yours that starts wars. Oh really? Tgg, I’m curious…we may perhaps rewrite history.
Nazism and democracy, Communism and democracy, fascism and democracy,Japan militarism and US are some examples ideological tensions that caused wars.
@ Lucas
“You aren’t making any sense with your incoherent rhetoric. Ask yourself who started WW2, or any war for that matter? Is it the leader of a country or is it his citizens?”
The ideologies of its citizens are very much responsible. The elites pandered to them. For vote banks.
“The “powerful elites” were not in control of deep-seated ideological tensions”, you say. Even though this is plain nonsense, this doesn’t say anything about the motivation of the elites that started this war, does it?”
The elites DID NOT WANT TO START THE WAR !!!
The French were trying to negotiate peace against Hitler. The elites negotiated peace. Ever heard of Munich conference ? No ??
Blow me to pieces or f-ck me sideways if you haven’t.
“And no, elites never go to war. It is basically and always the working class that does that job for them. Who else? I think Marx has nothing to do with that, does he?”
Marx is responsible for legitimising a hagiographic view of the “working class”, painting them as saints and absolving it of all responsibilities in all the havoc that besets them.
“What were these deep-seated ideological tensions in Europe anyway in your opinion? I think you’re just raving.”
Aarno gave them to you. Bottom line: fascism and communism decided to gang rape liberal democracies. And the “working class” people well quite fond of fascist and communist ideologies. So they started legitimising the rape of Poland, they then raped themselves, and then committed civilisational suicide.
The “working class” people were responsible for pandering to these ideologies. They are responsible for endorsing the ideologies that endorsed, triggered and perpetrated the war.
The elites, on the other hand, wanted to uphold liberal democracy. They got raped at first. And ultimately prevailed.
All hail the elites !!!
“We have Germany, Italy, Spain, France, England to name a few. And there you found these deep-seated ideological tensions of yours that starts wars. Oh really? Tgg, I’m curious…we may perhaps rewrite history.”
Told you: fascist and communist ideologies. They are responsible for the war. And these ideologies are still alive and kicking nowadays.
And I’m busy crushing them everywhere I find them.
I meant “legitimate” in a legal sense. U-20 should have surfaced, ordered the Lusitania to heel to, let everyone get off, then sunk her.
@Julian Frost
“I meant “legitimate” in a legal sense. U-20 should have surfaced, ordered the Lusitania to heel to, let everyone get off, then sunk her.”
Thanks for your clarification, Julian.
Lucas: “World War II was a catastrophic clash of global power, driven primarily by a small group of powerful elites”
That sounds an awful lot like the Nazi line, which claimed that “International Jewry” had launched WWII in order to bring about the “Bolshevization” of the world.* It’s more acceptable now to use code words like “elites” instead of Jews.
*how International Jewry reconciled a supposed lust for mass Bolshevization with an alleged embrace of unrestrained capitalism has never been adequately explained, but is self-evident to bigoted loons.
@ Dangerous Bacon
“That sounds an awful lot like the Nazi line, which claimed that “International Jewry” had launched WWII in order to bring about the “Bolshevization” of the world.”
Yep it is.
Lucas is completely unaware that WW2 was first and foremost a clash of ideologies. Resulted from the unwillingness of many people to endorse liberal democracies. Which is in itself is largely what is also happening elsewhere in the world nowadays.
The Jewish influence was obviously not a “conspiracy of elites”.
But God-entranced Jews in the Ukraine area were indeed engaging in agenda of social justice at the beginning of the 20th century that could only engineer a backlash: society can only swallow one amount of social justice at a time. So yes, the agenda jews had in this corner of the world was feared, and that fear was instrumentalised by Hitler. And when the jews started complaining DURING WW2, people dismissed them as whiners. And western or US media support for Jews would only have played in Hitler’s propaganda that the jews were behind the media. Which is why what happened could not be stopped and not even talked about. Though we did knew, from Witold Pilecki, who infiltrated Auschwitz as a wilful prisoner, and who sent out a simple message from within Auschwitz to the polish resistance and to the allies:
“Bomb Auschwitz.” — Witold Pilecki
Subtext: “with me inside: I don’t care.”
Some people very obviously are still replaying that tired and tiresome old game.
And that old game is pretty much not fun.
@NumberWang
“”reorganization of the world on all levels until people are without possessions”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Have you looked at the companies on the WEF partnership list?”
When you finally stopped lauging Wang, yes, I know the companies on the WEF partnership list.
I said it frequent enough for you to notice that “I know exactly what is going on at the WEF”. Before I mentioned that I have a relative in the function as Economic advisor to our government as well as the WEF.
And then you come with this arrogance of yours, “ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha”.
NumberWang, you’re obviously not the brightest kid in town.
Obviously you try to make a point with your remark. Go ahead and finish your own suggestion about “the companies on the WEF partnership”.
But before you do, please study the WEF’s website. That might prevent further disgrace.
@ Lucas
“I said it frequent enough for you to notice that “I know exactly what is going on at the WEF”. Before I mentioned that I have a relative in the function as Economic advisor to our government as well as the WEF.”
That does not make you smart to understand the information you claim to be in possession of.
“But before you do, please study the WEF’s website. That might prevent further disgrace.”
Cut the crap. There are gazillions of such associations in Switzerland.
This is not a conspiracy.
This is what happens in Switzerland.
Geneva is the town with the highest densities of spies in the world.
It’s a very nice town.
But this is not a conspiracy. It’s intellectual, economic and diplomatic life.
It’s life. Nothing else.
Sigh. It’s rather sad that everything needs to be pointed out to you in metaphorical capital letters.
You say that the WEF have a plan which involves depriving people of possessions.
I say that you obviously haven’t looked at the WEF partnership list.
You say blah blah blah.
A large portion of the WEF partnership list are companies that supply personal possessions or create the components for personal possessions. Apple, for instance. Now, how well do you think Apple will do if no one owns iPhones or iMacs? There are several companies who make microprocessors on the list. Volkswagen, Toyota, a lot of Indian car manufacturers (they make those personal possessions called cars by the way). No more motorbikes Honda. UPS and DHL are in the club too, nothing to deliver though. Such sorrow, much sad.
I’d love to know why you think these companies are knowingly destroying themselves now, for a future they won’t be involved in.
That’s a lie. I’m not interested at all. You’ll just be regurgitating the koala pap you’ve been fed.
“I’d love to know why you think these companies are knowingly destroying themselves now, for a future they won’t be involved in.”
Once the global depopulation conspiracy kicks into high gear there won’t be anyone left to sell possessions to, so Profit!
If you can’t understand that it’s because you’re a Shill.
Now you must be nice and give me respect.
What you hysterical conspiracy freaks seem to have forgotten is that the “global elites” or the Illuminati or whoever else you’re terrified of, would already have access to a tremendous amount of information about everyone. Consider mobile phones, insurance records, internet profiles, social media etc.
Compared to this, vaccine “passports” are next to nothing. So what is the real issue? I can guess.
@TBruce
Right you are, but why then this green pass anyway?
@Aarno Syvänen
I’m sorry that I haven’t noticed several of your posts; unfortunately they are placed in a chaotic manner. It seems some of my posts are even censored; I don’t see them anyway.
No, I have no expertise on vaccines. I am not even a phycisian.
I did follow an extensive course in statistics. In my analysis based on official British reporting, being vaccinated (regarding the first two doses) does not give any benefit concerning illness or death. Perhaps this sounds absurd, but statistics don’t lie (be it that the input is correct, which it was).
“Big Pharma does not pay blog commenters”. If hear you say so, Aarno. Indirectly perhaps they do?
“Interesting thing is that you do not try to refute anything Dr Gorski says. If it is propaganda,it must be wrong.” Where do you see Dr. Gorski write something that has any scientific value, Aarno?
Furthermore I am not going to debate anything of which I’don’t know the ins and outs well enough.
Right — you don’t understand how comments get posted, so the first notion that you advance is “censorship.”
Well, where is it? What’s the design? Everything that, y’know, requires access to people is out. Somehow, though, I doubt that you quite made it to the finish line.
I wonder if it covers more than one page.
Actual statistics, of course show vaccine benefit (perhaps you refer a typo Peter Doshi used when he testified before congress).
Here is again, data from Singapore:
https://www.moh.gov.sg/
I cannot imagine what kind of indirect payment I get from Big Pharma,
If you ask, things written by Dr Gorski are of scientific value. Are you yourself saying that all his claims are correct (because you choose not to refute them) ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“Actual statistics, of course show vaccine benefit (perhaps you refer a typo Peter Doshi used when he testified before congress).”
– Statistics can be tricky stuff and is so often misused (very dependend on input too). The British data are very extended and certainly seem reliable. I’m sorry Aarno, it was the conclusion of analysys, can’t change that. There is without a doubt a short term effect of these vaccines.
That is why I arranged for my father that booster recently. But he lives in a risky environment, does not do any distancing, doesn’t wear a mask, hardly washes hands, had strokes after a bad fall and is old. Not good.
I think there are alternatives for him, but he wouldn’t use them anyway. He doesn’t care about anything, so I took the chances with the vaccine for a 2 month protection or so for him. Pretty worthless shit if you ask me, but may be a good choice during this period.
Btw, what my father makes jokes about (and that is about after both the second shot and now the boosters were administered in that retirement home; everyone is vaxxed in one day there) is a coming and going of ambulances and funeral cars (every day he’s in the hall alone reading the newspapers and that’s when the corpses are carried away). I asked the director some questions regarding the last 3 weeks (moment of vaccination). She admitted that indeed many are dying, but blamed it on the time of the year. Whatever, my father hasn’t had any side effect from his 3 jabs until now and hope it stays that way.
Just saying.
I don’t know the Singapore data Aarno. Unless you really want me to look at them, I won’t. But do be careful with ‘snapshots’!
“If you ask things written by Dr Gorski are of scientific value. Are you yourself saying that all his claims are correct (because you choose not to refute them)?”
– Not at all am I saying that!
I don’t regard him as serious with regards to these vaccines. Just useless.
But I wouldn’t know why he would not be a serious surgeon, good in what he does. He has drive too and someone so arrogant will likely want to prevent making mistakes in his work at all cost.
That’s funny. I don’t regard you as serious with regards to anything you’ve posted in the comments of this blog. It’s very clear that you are antivaccine and don’t know what you’re talking about at least 99% of the time.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Have you ever applied for a grant ? Report your experience.”
Yes Sir.
Most grants I attended to was during my time I worked for the Governement, Environmental department, a.o. prognosing future waste fractions for the planning of an incinerator, of landfills and composting facilities in our province. But these involved requests from external parties, mostly research and ingeneering firms.
In this post you ask me if I ever applied for a grant.myself. Yes, I did Aarno.
During the time I had a loudspeaker business, the first grant I applied for was the development of a new type of mid to high frequency transducer, a sort of Air Motion Transformer if you will. What I had to explain for the awarding was that the technology invented was indeed innovative (and of course that it would actually function).
Another research grant for this business was for a new type of innovative enclosure that dealt with the problem of standing waves as well as the material of the enclosure itself, which was a resin based on maize (high stiffness). It concerned a rounded shape based on an in Excel programmed and then imported spiral form. Natural additives (a certain diameter chalk and alu hydroxide particles and a natural material you can eat or make clothes from, more I won’t tell you) to reduce distortion (damping). This resulted in one of the first 3d printing of CAD files in my country and was done by one of our technical Universities here, as was obliged with the grant (of course this prototype was not made of a maize based resin!). This was sustainability pur sang, before the word was even invented and later on misused everywhere.
So, patentable. MJD will be impressed. Rather than getting into the desirability of this sort of thing (especially when you can just try to get serious), I’m sure everyone is still waiting for your VE analysis with bated breath.
@Narad
“So, patentable. MJD will be impressed. Rather than getting into the desirability of this sort of thing (especially when you can just try to get serious), I’m sure everyone is still waiting for your VE analysis with bated breath.”
Shapes aren’t patentable, Narad.
And no, the boring model in that link has nothing to do with design i.m.o. and is definately not mine. Came much later in time too.
It was ment as a serious answer to a request.
You didn’t invent a shape, now did you? Tell everybody again what you did invent.
I meant a grant for medical research,because you imply that in this field, your results are given to you beforehand.
@F68.10
“I believe you believe that Satan is reigning in this world.”
Ha, one cannot understand the world of humans if you do not believe evil exists and who is behind it.
I made my fortune based on recognizing greed and in recent years evil. It directs my investments.
Now that you made your remark, I will make one too. I believe you do not believe that God exists.
Before the taunting that usually follows, you may want to dispute for yourself some proof of the opposite first. Btw not ment to start a discussion here. And I’m aware that people like you don’t care a bit. Like denying there’s any building when standing in front of a sky scraper. Whatever, but it’s fun to explain.
Earth’s organisms are diverse and complex, no doubt. Zoom in to one cell of one of these organisms. F.e. a human cell. Our genome contains of 3 billion base pairs that spell out the instructions for making and maintaining.
For years, the vast stretches of DNA between our 20,000 or so protein-coding genes – more than 98% of the genetic sequence inside each of our cells – was written off as “junk” DNA. But meanwhile we know that these stretches are admittedly crucial to the way our genome works (see the Encode project of the NHGRI).
Put differently, more or less the full code has its function, is necessary for life. That means that we can do a probability calculation, a so called ‘chance without putting back’.
For the sake of simplicity we define the chance of the position for each of the 4 bases A, C, G or T in the genetic code 1/4, right? I will not write the outcome of 1/4 to the power 3 billion here. But what that figure below the dash tells you is that the chance of such an event during the existence of the universe, related to every atom in there and to the smallest part of a second, equals 0. I.o.w., a human being could not have developed from non living matter. This automatically means that it was created. Or: God did it.
In reality things get more complicated btw; a DNA code is useless if it cannot be read and translated into commands. That’s another chapter.
Or suppose somewhere in future we can actually 3d print a fully functional cell; how do we possible bring it to life? What is life?
Another proof of a creator you find in nature’s ‘fun & function’ integration. Many designers are aware that the shape of organisms follow complex mathematical formules, often not yet really known. But apart from how or why these formules got into the organism, you may simply ask yourself why we observe the ‘fun’ factor; for what reason is there the esthetics in organisms, so often without being an evolutionary necessity. There is no explanation without a Designer here too.
“For the sake of simplicity we define the chance of the position for each of the 4 bases A, C, G or T in the genetic code 1/4, right? I will not write the outcome of 1/4 to the power 3 billion here. But what that figure below the dash tells you is that the chance of such an event during the existence of the universe, related to every atom in there and to the smallest part of a second, equals 0. I.o.w., a human being could not have developed from non living matter. This automatically means that it was created. Or: God did it.”
Is it your considered opinion that scientists think humans formed overnight in a particularly rich pool of primordial soup? Have you taken survivor bias into account?
Even if you assume that the process is totally random, you aren’t talking about the chance of one strand of DNA being produced, in one reaction. You’re talking about billions and billions of random combinations. All happening simultaneously in every suitable environment in the planet. This isn’t one person tossing a coin, looking for ten heads in a row. It’s billions of humans tossing a coin to get ten heads in a row. How long to you think it would take for YOU to get ten heads? How long do you think it would take for one billion people to produce a ten head streak?
In your scenario you actually have the entire resources of a world, randomly rearranging ACGT every minute of every day, everywhere. Your probability calculation is incomplete.
@NumberWang
“Is it your considered opinion that scientists think humans formed overnight in a particularly rich pool of primordial soup?”
– What is the relevance? Point is that given an amount of time (let’s say 14 billion years) chances are equal to 0 when related to the smallest part of a second we make use of (that’s many of these parts in 14 billion years) and related to each and every atom in the universe we think there are (lots of these too). Still, by far it cannot have happened that the DNA of one of your cells is (fast or slowly doesn’t matter) formed by chance. Unless of course you expand one of these factors to a great deal.
“Have you taken survivor bias into account?”
– Feel free to take into account whatever you want.
“Even if you assume that the process is totally random, you aren’t talking about the chance of one strand of DNA being produced, in one reaction.
– Yes, we assume that the process is completely random, otherwise we call it a guided proces and then God should be synonym. It’s irrelevant whether one strand of DNA is being produced in one reaction or not.
“You’re talking about billions and billions of random combinations. All happening simultaneously in every suitable environment in the planet. This isn’t one person tossing a coin, looking for ten heads in a row. It’s billions of humans tossing a coin to get ten heads in a row. How long do you think it would take for YOU to get ten heads? How long do you think it would take for one billion people to produce a ten head streak? ”
– I’m sure your agree that the answer to your last question is not ½ to the power 10 x one billion. Btw, that would mean a chance of over 1, which isn’t possible. No, with one billion people the chance is still ½ to the power 10. It’s just that now the time that one of the billion coin flippers throws ten heads in a row is one billion times shorter. But that just brings us back to our calculation in which the factor time and amount of atoms is already included. So nothing changes unless you bring back the amount of DNA digits (in case of previously suggested junk DNA) or the amount of atoms (much higher) or you calculate with an even shorter part of second. But this all makes no sense.
Of course all atoms or all smallest parts of a second or the complete 14 billion years would be extremely unreasonable to count with.
“In your scenario you actually have the entire resources of a world, randomly rearranging ACGT every minute of every day, everywhere. Your probability calculation is incomplete.”
Exactly so, and that is how you give abiogenesis the maximum benefit of the doubt. And no, it really is complete.
“But that just brings us back to our calculation in which the factor time and amount of atoms is already included”
Where? Your calculation involves a row of 3 billion slots with a possible four options in each slot. Hence 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x ……….. 3 billion times. There’s no time factor in that mathematics.
@ Lucas
“Ha, one cannot understand the world of humans if you do not believe evil exists and who is behind it.”
Let’s cut to the chase. This is where anti-semitism really lies. This belief that Satan reigns over the world and that it embodies itself in some specific individuals.
Namely the Synagogue of Satan. i.e. the Joos.
This is the superstition that led to Europe’s civilisational suicide.
“Now that you made your remark, I will make one too. I believe you do not believe that God exists.”
Bingo. 100 % atheist. Raised by jesuits though…
“Before the taunting that usually follows, you may want to dispute for yourself some proof of the opposite first. Btw not ment to start a discussion here. And I’m aware that people like you don’t care a bit.”
On the contrary. I’m the kind of Christopher Hitchens guy. Always ready to pick up a fight with theists.
“For the sake of simplicity we define the chance of the position for each of the 4 bases A, C, G or T in the genetic code 1/4, right? I will not write the outcome of 1/4 to the power 3 billion here. But what that figure below the dash tells you is that the chance of such an event during the existence of the universe, related to every atom in there and to the smallest part of a second, equals 0. I.o.w., a human being could not have developed from non living matter. This automatically means that it was created. Or: God did it.”
Nope. Evolution by natural selection did it.
And even if God did it, that would not prove the Bible to be more than a pile of rubbish.
“Or suppose somewhere in future we can actually 3d print a fully functional cell; how do we possible bring it to life? What is life?”
I think we already managed that. Two weeks ago or so.
“Another proof of a creator you find in nature’s ‘fun & function’ integration. Many designers are aware that the shape of organisms follow complex mathematical formules, often not yet really known. But apart from how or why these formules got into the organism, you may simply ask yourself why we observe the ‘fun’ factor; for what reason is there the esthetics in organisms, so often without being an evolutionary necessity. There is no explanation without a Designer here too.”
Nope. Quite the opposite. If we find nature awesome, it’s because we’re adapted to it. You got it the other way round.
These are absolutely no proof of whatever Creator you may believe to exist.
And, a zen koan for you: did the Creator himself need another Creator ? If not, provide a decent argument that can withstand the severest logico-rationnal criticism.
You won’t find any.
Christian fundie identified. Moving on…
I see somebody can add kung-an to the yards-long list of things he isn’t even close to understanding. Fine. You can ask a question, but in this tradition you certainly cannot put externalizing qualifiers on it.
If you insist, the answer is, “Go drink tea.”
If you persist, the answer is 30 blows with a stick.
If you listen, the answer is, “Who makes ‘Creator’? Where is it?”
If you understand, then you Don’t Know.
@Orac
“That’s funny. I don’t regard you as serious with regards to anything you’ve posted in the comments of this blog. It’s very clear that you are antivaccine and don’t know what you’re talking about at least 99% of the time.”
Basically you’re saying that in your opinion I’m not serious because I’m antivaccine? If not, you should formulate differently.
And btw, even yesterday I wrote here that I have taken care that my father got his booster. That was not because I hate him.
“… you don’t know what you’re talking about at least 99% of the time.”
– Here we go again. Isn’t this exactly how you handle Dr. Malone? Or all other more qualified phycisians then you, for that matter? Handling out scoldings without motivation.
Please try and rise above kindergarten level, it’s getting boring and that’s less funny.
Thnx for the 1%.
“Thnx for the 1%.”
Don’t let it go to your head. He probably said that in a spirit of Xmas generosity.
@NumberWang
Correction.
I wrote: “I’m sure your agree that the answer to your last question is not ½ to the power 10 x one billion. Btw, that would mean a chance of over 1, which isn’t possible.”
1/2 to the power 10 times one billion is of course not over 1.”
I ment to say that you cannot add up the chance of 1/2 to the power 10 for one person by a million times (which would get a result exceeding 1).
Stupid me, but further not relevant.
Scientists do not claim that humans jumped out from primordial soup as a result of random combinations. Natural selection is anything but random, it is selection.
@Aarno Syvänen
“I meant a grant for medical research,because you imply that in this field, your results are given to you beforehand.”
– I thought that was not really what you asked.
I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean now. Of course I don’t imply that in general, wished for results are given beforehand. Just that you have to be aware that sometimes this is the case with relevant parts of the results.
I’ve seen a governor doing so regarding the realisation of an incinerator where there was strong political will to build the damn thing, as every ton of waste burned is a cashcow. But our prognoses based on official models showed that the incinerator would be only filled partly once it was constructed. What the ‘rats’ by means of a research grant did, was that based on my figures they had their own, more ‘usable’, prognoses produced. That was about 30 years ago with less corruptcy in the system then now. Now tell me what you expect from a criminal company like Pfizer anno 2021?
“I certanly want to see that article. Losing of possessions and being drugged is not part of smart city”
– As a start have a look here. With the WEF and UN you have to look beyond the beautiful or even lovely sounding expressions. Study their website and think critically what the relevant parts mean for your life and for theirs. Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better (forbes.com)
Regarding my previous post to you, you might want to have a look at the website of Geert van den Bossche. His predictions so far are correct.
There is a statistician in the medical field that I thought was a rather good one. I forgot his name and where you find him on Youtube, brandnewtube or whatever. If you are interested in his findings regarding the safety and usefulness of these vaccines, I may have a look for you.
Hi, Gerg.
@Aarno Syvänen
“I meant a grant for medical research,because you imply that in this field, your results are given to you beforehand.”
– I thought that was not really what you asked.
I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Of course I don’t imply that in general wished for results are given beforehand. Just that you have to be aware that sometimes this happens with relevant parts of the results.
“I certanly want to see that article. Losing of possessions and being drugged is not part of smart city”
– Have a look here for example. With the WEF and UN you have to look in between and beyond the serene and often lovely sounding expressions. Study their website and think critically what the relevant parts mean for you and for them. Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better (forbes.com)
You cannot of course draw definite conclusions based on just one piece of text. Primarily you need to find out about their way of thinking, which means there is a lot of reading to do. Suppose you want to invest in a company, would you do that based on just an article or so? No way you would. But now that our much more valuable freedom is at stake, we just don’t seem to care what plans are boiling. If you study them, you’ll see the WEF, UN and IMF plans are one of the same kind.
Regarding my previous post to you, you might want to have a look at the website of Geert van den Bossche. His predictions so far are correct.
There is a statistician in the medical field that I thought was a rather good one. I forgot his name and where you find him (Youtube, brandnewtube or so). If you are interested in his findings regarding the safety and usefulness of these vaccines, I may have a look for you.
You forget your own previous claims. Shit sometimes happens for sure.
So you think that big companies are for very extreme form of communism ? Even if they earn their money by selling as many posessions as possible.
Bossche was wrong, All variants have come from low vaccinated countriea,
@Sam
“If you’re not careful, you will both start a civil war. One side demanding a vax and the other thinking it will kill them. So, if mandates come down like in Austria (or even Australia), what do you think scared ppl with guns will do? Is vaccinating everyone worth this? Just calm down and start to find a common ground. The mental instability happening right now is astounding.
All over a virus which I don’t know anyone who died or even had it bad. Which, for me, if this really isn’t a pandemic (I’m not saying there isn’t one, but I don’t see one), then this is all abuse, which, if so, we should be upset with our governments and not one another. If it leads to food shortages, hyperinflation, and homelessness, then this is an unforgivable mismanagement of a health crisis.
Both my daughter and partner are talking about suicide due to this whole thing (not from conspiracies but just feeling hopeless that the covid thing will never end).
Forget all the vax stuff, what is happening isn’t mentally healthy.
Never in history has a collective been so cowardly in its pandemic ideology.”
Sam, don’t allow these thoughts of suicide in your head; go out in nature and stop watching the news brainwashing, cause that is what this is. Keep your head cool, there will always be a tomorrow. And if you’re not young anymore or have a bad health, take care for some relevant supplements and medicins so you’re protected.
This pandemic was planned, no doubt. Just as well as the endless fear mongering that has followed and will follow.
We knew in advance about this planned pandemic. And watching this high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, where The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, we knew it wouldn’t take long before a virus would actually break out. So we could financially benefit from it once it was there, just like many of the ‘elite’ (hate the term, but use it for the sake of simplicity) did. They knew too.
This is a ‘game’, Sam, to realise certain plans (to track people, take away their wealth and posessions and enslave them). To set up people against one another is part of it.
Perhaps you better invest your time studying about who is behind what is going and what else to expect. In fact our governments are no more then the puppets on the string of some powerful organisations with bad plans for us. For your information, the next crisis will be a financial one on a global scale and it is not that far off. Learn more about what is going on, Sam. Then you can profit instead of be a victim.
@ Lucas
“This pandemic was planned, no doubt.”
Bollocks.
Maybe the chinese screwed up. But that’s no “plan”. Forget it.
How many people do you know ? You need to know quite many to quarantee that there is one COVID dead among them.
Exercise you mention is publicly known . Why would someone planning to start a pandemic would tell their crime before ? Who would be that stupid ?
“The mental instability happening right now is astounding.”
“All over a virus which I don’t know anyone who died or even had it bad.”
Read in reverse order, these sentences make marginally more sense.
@F68.10
“Nope. Evolution by natural selection did it.
And even if God did it…
These are absolutely no proof of whatever Creator you may believe to exist.”
“Even if” suggests you’re not sure. And how could you possibly?
You are definately not able to refute the evidence I gave you. Try if you will, it is simply not possible. Remember the logic: when things aren’t possible, they won’t happen.
But you’re apparently not the follow the evidence kind of guy. That’s allowed.
And please stop your crab, we are not able to 3d print “a fully functional cell”. We are still lightyears away from that, if ever we will be able at all. Where did you read this?
And no, if we find nature awesome, it’s not because we’re adapted to it. You are by no way an artist. And you ignore the science. Have a look at the math behind a tree leaf for example.
Stupidity is a choice, remember that.
@ Lucas
““Even if” suggests you’re not sure.”
Absolutely not. I’m a mathematician. I have no problem supposing false statement to highlight a contradiction. It’s called ad absurdo reasoning, and it’s known since… Aristotle.
Please keep up with this new knowledge.
“And how could you possibly?”
I am sure. Expand your preconceived ideas about the possible.
“You are definitely not able to refute the evidence I gave you.”
Yep. I can: You screw at probabilities.
“But you’re apparently not the follow the evidence kind of guy. That’s allowed.”
Not your “evidence”, which is merely a bunch of sophistic fallacies. See above for refutation.
“And please stop your crab, we are not able to 3d print “a fully functional cell”. We are still lightyears away from that, if ever we will be able at all. Where did you read this?”
Here.
“And no, if we find nature awesome, it’s not because we’re adapted to it.”
Of course it is. We see it green and blue because its the spectrum that allows us to distinguish the sky from the trees. You see red because it allows you to distinguish sugar-rich fruits like berries. Those who can’t distinguish red from blue are evolutionary fossils. And they do exist.
The way we view nature is a product of our adaptation to it. And, in fact, when you think about it, nature is rather gross.
“You are by no way an artist. And you ignore the science. Have a look at the math behind a tree leaf for example.”
A mathematician is an artist. And a scientist. And you suck at probabilities.
“Stupidity is a choice, remember that.”
Projection… pure projection…
There is is contrafactual if. If if were when, pigs should fly. You should consider that.
Scinetists do not claim that man is product of random events. You should include natural selection into your calculation.
In one medical study of a drug for fibromyalgia syndrome, the number of participants suffering from the nocebo effect was so high that it was necessary to disrupt the research due to bother- some side effects of the “treated with nothing.” I’m not saying it’s the same case, I just found this sentence in a book explaining the placebo effect – net-boss org/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect-by-randy-baker and it sounded very familiar to me.
@NumberWang
““But that just brings us back to our calculation in which the factor time and amount of atoms is already included”. Where? Your calculation involves a row of 3 billion slots with a possible four options in each slot. Hence 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x ……….. 3 billion times. There’s no time factor in that mathematics.”
Of course you cannot build these two factors in the calculations itself (I think it got late, hence the correction too).
The speed of the process is what may the event happen whithin a certain time. Like flipping your coin with twice the speed will give you the result of ten in a row in half the time. Likewise when having the experiment with 2 participants instead of one. For both your and my event to happen whithin a certain time fraim, the chance of it to occur needs to be compared in terms of the number of ‘possibilities’ where it may occur (players, locations) and the time limit. These are by no means infinite, however feel free to maximize the number of ‘possibilities’. I maximized by assuming that at each atom in the universe during the smallest part of a second times the total amount of seconds in the age of that universe (this results in a number), the event could occur. Already that is a downright unreasonable assumption, of course.
Theoratically you can imagine a bit of ‘land grabbing’, where a DNA fragment from one position adds to an existing one elsewhere, but basically this is a balancing out where one’s profit is an other’s loss; not relevant for calculation of chance. Besides, DNA fragments will not bind without a specific enzyme (DNA Ligase), which isn’t there. This is btw a problem for the forming of whatever DNA strand altogether.
Reality gets so much more complicated because it is not a matter of just stringing beads. DNA is useless if there is no specific program that knows what is the meaning of the digits and translates it into action. Another problem is that for the DNA to develop, you need certain proteins, but for these proteins to develop you need the DNA. Problematic too is that the properties of bases and acids produce the wrong relationship for living systems. DNA (or m-RNA, transfer-RNA, or ribosomal-RNA), is destroyed by a variety of agents, including ultraviolet light, reactive oxygen species, alkylting agents, and water. However, without oxygen or water there can be no life.
DNA is not the secret of life. Life is the secret of DNA.There is no such thing as a self-replicating molecule, and no such molecule could ever exist. Life is not a property of substance; it’s a property of organization.
Bottom line: forget about abiogenesis, calculation of chance (science) alone denies it.
@F68.10
“On the contrary. I’m the kind of Christopher Hitchens guy. Always ready to pick up a fight with theists.”
– Feel free to attack the content, I wait for your fight. If it is an intellectual one I will reply. So don’t throw your emotions in the mix.
Oh. My. G-d. That, that means… you can get 10 in a row in a single flip!
It’s like Banach–Tarski all over again.
Before we (tinw) get into your apparent quantization of spacetime, where’s the vaxxed-unvaxxed analysis that you promised, “Course in Statistics”?
“calculation of chance (science) alone denies it”
You already shown that your understanding of basic chance is poor. Or you’ve shown that your concept of proof is woeful. Looks like both to me. I think the world can safely ignore any probability based pronouncements from you.
You also have an odd mindset when it comes to mathematics in nature. As if it doesn’t need to be there, so it must have been put there. You are looking at it backwards. Nature, existence are described by mathematics. From the way atomic bonds create the shape of molecules, through crystal growth, the shape of a honeycomb all the way up to petals on a flower. Mathematics isn’t a separate entity, it describes the functioning of the universe. It is absolutely inevitable that it can be seen everywhere.
As for beauty in nature. Beauty is subjective and to a certain extent, programmed. There are people who find spiders beautiful. Cultural standards for female and male beauty are different around the world. Mathematicians find beauty in mathematics. An engineer might find beauty in the sound of a perfectly adjusted drive chain or a clever mechanism to accomplish a complicated task.
What’s beautiful to one person might not be to another, so the idea that beauty has been ‘added’ by a single creator is clearly incorrect.
@ NumberWang
“Mathematicians find beauty in mathematics.”
Speaking of which, I do not find it subjective.
The only thing subjective in mathematics is the extent to which the state of our knowledge ends up being pretty much more historically and culturally constructed than it genuinely is logically and systematically discovered.
There are systematic philosophers. Systematic mathematicians in the same sense as systematic philosophers are harder to come by. Some exceptions, though, as C. S. Peirce, but they tend to be ignored in the medium term. And later rediscovered.
But, beneath the surface, the intrinsic beauty of mathematics is stunning and objective. Maybe awe-inspiring would be a better term.
Wittgenstein made a career out of trying to describe how logic, the heart of mathematics, is a kind of ultra-physics. Lukiasewicz, when he tried to develop a logic based on three truth values, felt he was mentally hammering a material way harder than the strongest steel.
I think it’s that observation that inspires awe and then gets perceived as beauty. Though I do not really like the terms “art” or “beauty” when it comes to maths. It doesn’t quite capture the feeling.
@Lucas Abiogenesis does not start with DNA,much leess DNA doing all current things. Check self replicating RNA:
@Aarno Syvänen
“Scientists do not claim that man is product of random events. You should include natural selection into your calculation.”
No, one should not include natural selection into the calculation because the calculation deals with the pre biotic stage. I.o.w., there is nothing to select.
In the past many scientist did claim that man is a product of random events. Nowadays that’s more and more under scientific attack.
Actually theory is not that DNA evolved first. There are much simpler self replicating RNA molecules (pathogens). There is an example:
Robertson MP, Joyce GF. Highly efficient self-replicating RNA enzymes. Chem Biol. 2014 Feb 20;21(2):238-45. doi: 10.1016/j.chembiol.2013.12.004. Epub 2014 Jan 2. PMID: 24388759; PMCID: PMC3943892.
A typo. RNA evolved first.
@F68.10
If you’re a mathematician then act like one and stop your emotion driven blabla.
“Yep. I can: You screw at probabilities.”
Back that up then. Until then your opinion has no meaning.
“The way we view nature is a product of our adaptation to it.”
I wasn’t talking about colors and no, a mathematician is by no means an artist. He may hope to discover some formulas embedded in art – as well as in organisms – that’s about it, just a scientist.
“Here”
That’s your 3d print “a fully functional cell”? Scraping living cells from frog embryos? Didn’t see the printing either…
@ Lucas
“If you’re a mathematician then act like one and stop your emotion driven blabla.”
No emotion. Merely arrogance against arrogance. I don’t take lessons from you.
And I’m acting like one. I’m currently busy booleanising semi-groups. Very surprising. And also axiomatising categorically the conversion of binary relations. Very surprising too. And artistically related to one another. Definitely.
“Back that up then. Until then your opinion has no meaning.”
Simple: you forgot selection as in “evolution by natural selection“. No need to dive into numbers when that basic premise is false.
“I wasn’t talking about colors and no, a mathematician is by no means an artist.”
Oh, yes. He is. When I look at Benjamin Peirce’s Linear Associative Algebras and the way I recovers some common tables of mine… of course we are artists. We’re driven into discovery, ultimately, by a sense of aesthetics. Much like Michael-Angelo when, according to neoplatonic canon, he was carving out the form already within the stone.
“He may hope to discover some formulas embedded in art.”
Nope. The fact that all natural integers are sum of four squares is not a formula embedded in art but art embedded in a formula.
And we’re nowadays well past “formulas”. Can’t call what I’m doing “formulas”. Clearly doesn’t look like “formulas”.
You have no clue what real maths is all about. The thrill of diving into 19th, 17th century, 7th century mathematics, and observing that that same sense of art pervades the whole of mathematics… The always surprising simplicity that besets proofs when you simplify them by generalising them. Taking 140 years to crack open an axiomatics anew… you know nothing, Jon Snow.
Read some Grothendieck before defaming mathematics.
“That’s your 3d print “a fully functional cell”? Scraping living cells from frog embryos? Didn’t see the printing either…”
Yeah. Well the Quran said we’d never manage that, us, mere mortal and feeble humains. The Quran is therefore wrong. God lost his bet. Game over.
This scientific achievement is already pretty darn good.
“Feel free to attack the content, I wait for your fight. If it is an intellectual one I will reply. So don’t throw your emotions in the mix.”
There’s nothing worth diving into, concerning your drivel. And no, I do not feel obliged to abide by your rules, buddy.
For now, I’m perfectly happy watching you make a fool of yourself.
This would have come as quite a surprise to people familiar with Piero della Francesca. Where do you think the real projective plane “came from,” anyway?
@Squirelelite
I’m sorry, I just haven’t seen all of your posts, that is why I didn’t reply. And meanwhile I have too many posts to react to. But here I go.
“I don’t see any reason for people to reply to your repeated questions about who is paying them since that is irrelevant to the truth value of Malone’s tweet statements and Orac’s reply to them.”
– If the truth would be important to Gorski, then why would he constantly be handling out scoldings to Dr. Malone? Have you seen the video in the link I sent at December 23, 2021 at 3:43 pm? This is the method he uses. Better ask Gorski his reasons for that.
Why do we hardly read any substantial comment from Gorski? Why does Gorski at all comment on matters that he is not qualified for?
In fact this relentless setting up of ‘vaxxed’ against ‘non-vaxxed’ that our governments and the media work at so hard and which Gorski parrots, is pathetic and dangerous in itself. Doesn’t anyone recognize this or am I the only fool in town?
Furthermore, shall we stop about this payment stuff? In practice it is just often question nr. 1 to want to know what drives a person / company. If you don’t see that, fine.
“As a practicing physician and a medical researcher, the author of this blog has far more experience and training as a basis to discuss infectious diseases and the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.”
– Far more then who? Then someone who does have the background needed that Gorski doesn’t have? You need profound knowledge in immunology, virology, vaccinolgy, not surgery.
“I prefer to evaluate logic and evidence with some allowance for possible sources of bias.”
– Me too, but for logic and evidence I would look somewhere else. If you like bias, then stay.
“The author derives inner satisfaction from writing these blogs as I do from my occasional comments. I choose to come back here regularly because I find it informative.”
-Just what is Gorski’s satisfaction?
“With Covid-19 case counts in Michigan running as high or higher than the peaks last winter and last summer, I suspect the author doesn’t do nearly as much “mingling” with other people as he might prefer.”
– So this lack of mingling seems to have detrimental effects sometimes. (Joke. …or not).
Case counts here in The Netherlands go through the roof too. People get sick, vaccinated or not. Get your booster and you have 2 months of protection (or no protection at all). And this is what you get in line for, including the risks each and every time? That’s beyond me. Can you explain?
“And Malone seems to ignore that Covid-19 has ongoing effects on the brain, cardiovascular system that are much better documented in addition to the serious risk of hospitalization and death. You don’t seem to be interested in discussing these matters.”
– You’re mistaking and I explain why. I’m interested in exactly these matters, as I value life (up to a certain degree that is).
Don’t exaggerate the ongoing effects and relate them to the adverse events of the vaccines, would be my reply. I haven’t seen any of the side effects you describe in any of all the people who got Covid, which is a group of relevance meanwhile. Perhaps you heard a bit too much propaganda? Highlighting the effect of the disease and underexposing the effects of the vaccines. Do you have the official data for both?
I often hear opinions and anxiety making from fact checking colored journalist deceivers with relevant knowledge of a bycicle valve. I don’t listen. Instead I’ve studied the tough to read and often tedious official medical literature, in general studies done by universities. But people mostly don’t like to read, shame for them.
Based on a load of these reports and video content filtered by myself instead of power hungry morons, I developed my own strategy to stay healthy.
After lots of studying I think I am knowledged enough to make a balanced decision for myself. I don’t need anyone to push or redicule me (don’t care about that anyway), this often ends in misery. I never rush into whatever it is, unless there’s an emergency.
Tell me, who the heck managed to get you so frightened? Do you feel like you’re in an emergency situation? If yes, is this only a feeling or can you back that up with facts?
“Malone stated: “We need at least 5 years of testing/research before we can really understand the risks”, as if it were some sort of official standard. And he’s not the only person who cites the 5 year number.”
– Okay, then you’re my guinea pig. I mean, what healthy person would ever want to risk his health for an unproven vaccine (if you can call it that way) while the chance of severe illness or dying is relatively small? If I would base an important financial decision on a knowledge gap, you call me a fool. Now how do you call a father that agrees in jabbing his child that would hardly get ill anyway? Amazing.
“Do you know or can you find any official documentation supporting that 5 year number?”
Ask Gorski. I don’t even care about the answer really, as I would never be so foolish to take it before 5 years of testing anyway. Unless I would otherwise die with high probability.
“… and those tests have shown no serious adverse effects and even the Phase 4 monitoring has shown only a low incidence of myocarditis with one death in a 22 year old, I do NOT consider it criminal to vaccinate our children in the tested age ranges.”
– Look, the reports on adverse effects aren’t accurate at all. I conclude this already from what I’ve seen around me: too many of these cases in my own circle. Because of the wonderful vaccines one dead, one ended with Steven Johnson, one with double pulmonary embolism, some still extremely tired after months. Small scale = big scale: I extrapolate. Btw, Vaers states that about 1% is reported. Getting ill isn’t that great either, but 1. I avoid close contact to people in any indoor setting and 2. I use a daily shot of several supplements that large enough clinical studies prove will work.
Well, Lucas, thanks for your reply.
I asked a question about the 5 year period that Malone referred to. You told me to ask the author of this blog, who clearly doesn’t agree with that delay period.
As for the video, I could hardly care less what Sharyl Atkisson has to say about astroturf websites. Although we spend a fair amount of time countering people who cannot or will not research beyond them to see what the primary sources say.
But if you like videos, I suggest you listen to what Dr Stanley Perlman, a professor of microbiology and specialist in pediatric infectious diseases has to say.
You tell me not to the long term effects of Covid-19 which are exaggerated, but don’t point me to what you consider an accurate evaluation of their number. Instead you refer me to the adverse effects of these vaccines which are of concern but much, much less common than the long-term effects of the disease itself assuming you don’t die of it.
You tell me the reports of adverse effects are not accurate but again don’t provide an accurate evaluation. Instead you mention the name of one man who died, but I didn’t find a reference to his case. The death of any man diminishes us all, but the death of 1205 in the U.S. yesterday diminishes us more.
You keep coming back to your personal observations, so I would point you to the Wikipedia case and death counts for the Netherlands.
A year ago, your country had 1698 deaths out of 216,939 cases in a 28 day period for a CFR of 0.736%. This year, despite having a much higher 513,270 cases, your country only recorded 1486 deaths for a CFR of 0.289%. The vaccination rate is about 72.5% compared to practically none last year.
My country is suffering a 0.992% CFR because most of the hospitalized cases still come from the 15-20% of the population who continue to refuse to get vaccinated. But at least that is down from the 1.57% cumulative number and the 2% number we were running last year.
I have been reading this and other similar blogs for many years because I find the articles informative and many of the comments lead me to new material which helps me learn even more.
Regrettably, your contribution to that process is minimal.
No, “it” doesn’t, but your dishonesty problem is already firmly established.
See?
Still waiting on your “statistical analysis.”
@Lucas You still claim that COVID do not cause any problems, because you yourself have not seen any. Have you meet every people in Netherlands.
It is not that vaccinated people may hospitalised, too. Unvaccinated go there much more often. Singapore publishes actual data on this matter:
https://www.moh.gov.sg/
Now, however, unvacccinated are doing better, this is herd immunity.
@Orac
“They’re not begging for “open debate.” They’re begging for a forum that falsely elevates them to appear to have equal validity to real scientists.”
Real scientists like you?
Why would these most experienced and respected Phycisians put their reputation at stake? Just because of your ‘begging” argument, as if they’re some kind of wannabe’s? Cut your crap.
@ Lucas
“Real scientists like you?”
Well… yeah.
@Aarno Syvänen, @
“This pandemic was planned, no doubt.”
Bollocks.
We knew it was coming and as a result earned extreme amounts of money in March last year. Would I bet on a myth?
@ Lucas
“We knew it was coming and as a result earned extreme amounts of money in March last year.”
Evidence people grew filthy rich out of planning a pandemic ? Proof ?
You would lie in a public forum about having conducted a “statistical analysis” based on “British data” and then ignore people who want you to follow through with presenting it; with that track record, I imagine that you’re loaded to the gills with bad bets.
@NumberWang
““calculation of chance (science) alone denies it””
“You already shown that your understanding of basic chance is poor. Or you’ve shown that your concept of proof is woeful. Looks like both to me. I think the world can safely ignore any probability based pronouncements from you.”
– Yeah yeah, the only thing you’ve shown is a bit of irritation. I wait for your deep dive.
“You also have an odd mindset when it comes to mathematics in nature. As if it doesn’t need to be there, so it must have been put there. You are looking at it backwards. Nature, existence are described by mathematics. From the way atomic bonds create the shape of molecules, through crystal growth, the shape of a honeycomb all the way up to petals on a flower. Mathematics isn’t a separate entity, it describes the functioning of the universe. It is absolutely inevitable that it can be seen everywhere.”
– In fact I haven’t said anything about mathematics in nature, other then that’s there. And I didn’t say that it needs to be there at all. Nor that it must have been put there. How do you read?
My point was about esthetics in nature without having an evolutionary necessity. If there wasn’t a creator, we would see the focus on functionality? Yes? No?
But that’s not the case and you (well not you, that’s evident) might ask yourself why not. Any explanation for the phenomenon? And if you have no artistic quality, don’t come with a in the eye of the beholder kind of crap.
“In fact I haven’t said anything about mathematics in nature, other then that’s there. And I didn’t say that it needs to be there at all. Nor that it must have been put there. How do you read?”
Yeah. I realised, once I posted the comment, that I was mixing up the whole ”mathematics is beauty’ and ‘beauty in nature debate’. Apologies.
I suppose I was irritated. You honestly thought that 1/4 to the power 3 billion was enough to eliminate chance as a possible cause of life. Even if your base assumption of ‘nothing to human’ was correct, this would have been wrong.
“And if you have no artistic quality, don’t come with a in the eye of the beholder kind of crap”
So…. if you can’t see ‘art’ because you have no artistic quality then ‘art’ isn’t an objective quality is it? Therefore it is subjective. Therefore it is in the eye of the beholder.
“If there wasn’t a creator, we would see the focus on functionality? Yes? No?”
Hmmm. Not necessarily. There’s a focus on what works well enough to survive in what ever environment is present. It might not be the most functional design, it just has to be functional enough to do the job and be better than any competing organisms. To be honest, if I was the type to see a creator in anything, I’d be more inclined to see it in any organisms with perfect functionality.
I’m still looking for some organism with wheels, legs AND wings (that can double as sails). The legs would have to have retractable flippers for swimming. Lungs AND gills or something that would allow it to extract oxygen from water as well as air. Maybe some kind of internal electrolysis to split water for the oxygen? The option to store the hydrogen for ascending from the depths and floating in the air? Not to mention the ability to replace any damaged body part and distributed consciousness to avoid the consequences of serious head injuries.
Yep. There’s a serious lack of survival functionality in the current crop of fauna.
@ Lucas
“Yeah yeah, the only thing you’ve shown is a bit of irritation. I wait for your deep dive.”
I wouldn’t call that “irritation”. I’d call that a dismissive attitude. And rightly so.
“My point was about esthetics in nature without having an evolutionary necessity. If there wasn’t a creator, we would see the focus on functionality? Yes? No?”
Not quite. Natural selection breeds robustness rather than functionality. And living beings a mighty robust beasts when it comes to the survival of our species. Our stupidity may prove stronger than our species genetic robustness, as we do have the means to create unfathomable savagery out of our own imagination, but aside from the fact that nature evolved an aspect separate from nature when evolving us, natural selection does evolve more robustness than functionality. On a species level. As long as it’s robust, nature doesn’t care if it’s functional.
We are the ones who care about what is functional or not. Because we have a brain. And not enough brains to put a high enough price on robustness.
Nature doesn’t think that way.
And when it comes to aesthetics of nature and natural selection, I’ll just quote Hitch’:
“It was Mrs Watts’s task, when I was a boy of about nine, to instruct me in lessons of nature and scripture, and there came a day when she said, “So you see children, how powerful and generous God is. He has made the grass to be green, which is exactly the colour that is most restful to our eyes.” I was appalled by this. Even though it was to be several months before I was to fully comprehend the subtleties of Darwinian evolution and to unlock the secrets of the genome, I simply knew my teacher had managed to get everything wrong in two sentences. The eyes were adjusted to nature, not the other way round. I do not believe it is arrogant of me to say that I had uncovered the four irreducible objections to religious faith – its misrepresentations of the origins of man and the cosmos, its combination of servility and solipsism, its dangerous sexual repression and its wishful-thinking – before my boyish voice had broken. Everyone knows I have always been right about everything, even when I have later changed my mind, and there is at least one other person conceited enough to make similar claims. My brother.” – H., God is not Great.
“And if you have no artistic quality, don’t come with a in the eye of the beholder kind of crap.”
I just go wherever I goddamm like !
As I said before theory is that self replicating RNA appeared first. Formation of this RNA was autocatalytic,not random combinations.
@Narad
“You would lie in a public forum about having conducted a “statistical analysis” based on “British data” and then ignore people who want you to follow through with presenting it; with that track record, I imagine that you’re loaded to the gills with bad bets.”
– Why would I lie? It’s just that I haven’t noticed the question really.
Yup, I made my own statistical analysys for my family, because in my country we have been put under a nasty pressure to accept the poison. At least I wanted to see if there was any benefit in them for us. Answer was no based on the extended British data (no info on boosters then yet). Now what do you want me to do, publish a heap of data including many signs that needs some study again to type them? And then what? Is it just to see what I said was true or BS?
I gave you my outcome and leave the rest to you what to do with it.
If you’re interested I might give you a link to the data, but have to look that up again as well.
Then there is this statistician employed in the medical field, I guess I saw him several times on Brandnewtube, but have to search him again as well as I don’t remember his name. I thought he came to the exact same conclusion as I, but it’s been a while. If interested I hear so.
Perhaps your own family is not a big enough sample. Any statistician should understand that.
@Narad
“Would I bet on a myth?”
Oh, and that was not about the British data.
I might back up that bet if you’re interested. That may teach you on how investors (like your ‘elite’) take your invested money.
@ Lucas
“That may teach you on how investors (like your ‘elite’) take your invested money.”
Oh. OK. Please explain to me how I was managing the financial risk of the 20 billions of assets I was supervising, then…
I’d be curious to see how you’re going to explain to me the job I did once upon a time.
My old college roommate has managed more than that, and he was best known for being able to eat shumai with his feet and gullibility about Noxzema being good for pruritus ani.
@ Narad
Life is odd…
@F68.10, @Aarno Syvänen
“”We knew it was coming and as a result earned extreme amounts of money in March last year.”
Evidence people grew filthy rich out of planning a pandemic ? Proof ?”
Might give you a clear example of well known Gates. We’ve been following his investments for a long time in the knowledge that by no means he’s phylanthropist. So we tracked his activities and voila, his scurvy plan became clear. Did you never notice how he wurmed his way into the WHO, promoted vaccines into blue skies, invested in many pharmaceutical companies big time or was heavily involved in Event 201? Never heard of GAVI, the vaccine alliance? Does its activity stem from the date the pandemic started? You clueless people!
Now tell me, as a computer specialist without any medical background whatsoever, why would he do that? Like I said, you better start believing in evil and greed. Gates, the market maker, and the like combined them. Clever boy.
I said that we earned enormous amounts of euros. I cannot tell you exactly who used prior knowledge and who didn’t, cause I dont care. But you can easily find that out by tracking the dates of their investments. Damn sure it’s an eye opener.
That the rich got about 60% richer during the pandemic is in the media, see https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/26/the-rich-are-getting-richer-and-theyre-fueling-a-private-jet-boom.html. Well, not richer really, for a great deal they compensated for inflation, which I’m sure you didn’t.
And one other thing, the real money growth of these people will follow when the moment is there they take your money and house. You will loose everything and will rent what was yours. Unless perhaps a good deal of the population start using brains and resist. But they never have, so how much of a chance is that?
And then, the money. First it is not about money, it is about power and control, the rest follows automatically. Ask yourself, what is that dollar in your pocket? You think it’s money? Think again, it’s trust. Anything can happen to trust at any moment. That should be history’s lesson to start with.
Now, what will happen once you have that social score system that does your ‘payments’? What is left of your freedom if you’re not the yes-man they want you to be in that rented and split city appartment of yours?
Still think that’s a cospiracy theory? Or have you started doing your damn homework?
@Aarno Syvänen
“Exercise you mention is publicly known . Why would someone planning to start a pandemic would tell their crime before ? Who would be that stupid ?”
– Spot on, who would be that stupid? Well, you are! (nothing personal). We almost all are, while it was there all the time.
And because it’s publicly known, no one wonders. That is what we call psychology.
@ Lucas
“Might give you a clear example of well known Gates. We’ve been following his investments for a long time in the knowledge that by no means he’s phylanthropist. So we tracked his activities and voila, his scurvy plan became clear.”
Show me the evidence.
“Did you never notice how he wurmed his way into the WHO, promoted vaccines into blue skies, invested in many pharmaceutical companies big time or was heavily involved in Event 201?”
That’s not evidence. At least not claims like that. Substantiate them.
“Never heard of GAVI, the vaccine alliance? Does its activity stem from the date the pandemic started? You clueless people!”
The risk of respiratory diseases was well known well before the pandemic. We always knew such a pandemic was coming. There’s no surprise in that. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
“Now tell me, as a computer specialist without any medical background whatsoever, why would he do that?”
I had a pal working at UBS. He had a degree in philosophy. Ethics. Of the christian kind. His job at UBS was to advise filthy rich people who wanted to put their money to other use than mere self-replication.
Ethical questions beset even the richest. Gates is no exception. His actions need not be 100 % philanthropic to insert themselves in that mindset. 15 % philanthropic is already good enough.
“Like I said, you better start believing in evil and greed.”
Evil doesn’t exist. Greed is necessary. It’s not a priori a Sin, except for bigots who revel to see Sin in others and never in themselves.
“Gates, the market maker, and the like combined them. Clever boy.”
Gates is no market maker. Jane Street Capital is a market maker. Do you see the difference ? No ?
“We are a global liquidity provider and market maker, trading mostly products that are listed on exchanges.” — Jane Street
Market Makers are a blessing on the whole of mankind.
“But you can easily find that out by tracking the dates of their investments. Damn sure it’s an eye opener.”
Show me the evidence.
“That the rich got about 60% richer during the pandemic is in the media, see CNBC”
Ah ! Finally ! Evidence !
Ah ! No ! Not evidence…
It is OBVIOUS that the filthy rich tend to get richer in situations such as the one we’ve been witnessing since 2008. Many mechanisms are conducive to that. “Quantitative easing” benefits the rich. It’s just the way it is. Not “fair”. But no conspiracy. At all.
“Well, not richer really, for a great deal they compensated for inflation, which I’m sure you didn’t.”
Given that I’ve been repetitively locked in psych wards over the last 20 years thanks to mommy = psychiatrist, no, I did not really have the leisure to manage my money. I was a bit more busy managing the money of others and trying to fight accusations of terrorism by mommy among other things.
But thanks for caring.
“And one other thing, the real money growth of these people will follow when the moment is there they take your money and house. You will loose everything and will rent what was yours.”
People rent their housing in Switzerland. Not owners. Or about 20 % owners. Which is low.
It’s better for a country to have a functional rent system when it comes to housing than to be owners. Flies in the face of common sense, but, indeed, it’s better that rent is the norm. For many reasons.
Again: not a conspiracy.
Getting a bit fed up by the way you are merely venting hot air.
“Still think that’s a cospiracy theory? Or have you started doing your damn homework?”
I think you got all the basics wrong. And that you’re locked in an interpretative infinite loop that is divorced from reality. So: you’re merely wrong.
So, yes: conspiracy theory identified. For sure.
Have you ourself noticed that Gates portfolio is public:
https://www.suredividend.com/bill-gates-portfolio/
You notice that he does not like tech.
If you lose your home, banks just get money they owned. They make same money, and much simpler way, when you are paying back your loan. Not to mention house housebuilders,
Actually purpose of any commercial activity is to earrn money, if you want power you go to politics.
So you really believe that a criminal will tell you that he is going to commit a crime ? Like, I will rob you tomorrow ? That is really stupid.
You did not notice that thing before the pandemic, either
@F68.10
“That may teach you on how investors (like your ‘elite’) take your invested money.”
Feel free to inform me on your managing of the financial risk of the 20 billions of assets. I am interested in that (seriously).
You’re not a fund manager. I know that Mathematicians are often employed at large hedge funds, pension funds.
I worked at the floor of an options exchange in between high school and the uni. Tell me your story.
@ Lucas
“Feel free to inform me on your managing of the financial risk of the 20 billions of assets.”
There’s money in Switzerland. In conspiratorial lingo, I was what is called a Gnome of Zürich.
And you do not need to know much more.
“You’re not a fund manager. I know that Mathematicians are often employed at large hedge funds, pension funds.”
I was a risk manager. I supervised the financial risk of these 20 billions.
A risk manager is not a fund manager.
And some mathematicians are fund managers. Like Jim Simmons.
I was the one whose work constrained the actions of other actors, included those of fund managers who were a bit too brash.
“I worked at the floor of an options exchange in between high school and the uni. Tell me your story.”
No need to.
Rules of managing a fund is well known. Do not put all eggs in one basket.diversify and do not take risky positions.
@ Aarno Syvänen
“Rules of managing a fund is well known. Do not put all eggs in one basket. diversify and do not take risky positions.”
There’s a bit more to it than merely the Capital Asset Pricing Model…
You do not get very far with that. This is at best a rule of thumb.
@Narad, @F68.10
“And, a zen koan for you: did the Creator himself need another Creator ? If not, provide a decent argument that can withstand the severest logico-rationnal criticism.”
“If you listen, the answer is, “Who makes ‘Creator’? Where is it?”
The good book says he has always been there, no beginning or ending. As a source of energy.
At least it wasn’t ‘nothing’ that had always been there, I guess. Be it God or just energy, what does it matter? Perhaps what we see is a form of guided energy?
Time and space before the universe aren’t supposed to exist.
Go drink tea.
@ Lucas
“The good book says he has always been there, no beginning or ending. As a source of energy.”
The good book ? The book that narrates the life of J.C., the Comic Messiah ?
The Comic Messiah being, as well know, J.C., alias John Cleese.
“At least it wasn’t ‘nothing’ that had always been there, I guess. Be it God or just energy, what does it matter?”
“Nothing” is quite fine to explain it. No a priori need for “something”.
It matters because Bible Thumpers base their political claims on metaphysical claims like the idea that the Creator is the Creator.
If Bible Thumpers did not put this claim forward, it would not matter as much. And you know it.
“Time and space before the universe aren’t supposed to exist.”
Why not ? The universe indeed is a four dimensional manifold endowed with a minkowskian metric (i.e. space and time, a notion that does therefore well seem to be a prerequisite for the universe’s existence itself) with other niceties on top of it like QFT.
In fact, for Feynman’s path integral to correctly axiomatise quantum physics, we might as well assume that there is a unique electron in the whole universe, whose path doesn’t mind that much going back in time…
And Feynman’s quantum electrodynamics is the theory whose experimental measurement and theoretical predictions coincide the most in the whole of physics. And of science. cf. the electron’s magnetic moment.
No doubt quantum chromodynamics and anomalies of the muon magnetic moment will further vindicate my views and refute yours.
No Creator.
@F68.10, @Aarno Syvänen
“Simple: you forgot selection as in “evolution by natural selection“. No need to dive into numbers when that basic premise is false.”
“You should include natural selection into your calculation.”
You’re wrong. We’re talking stringing beads.
In a pre-biotic environment there is no selection mechanism, so try again.
@ Lucas
“You’re wrong. We’re talking stringing beads.
In a pre-biotic environment there is no selection mechanism, so try again.”
In a prebiotic environment, you only need to get to the ribosome to bootstrap evolution as we know it.
That observation significantly lowers to bar of the possible. And makes it very possible. And it in fact is what happened.
Ribozymes came to existence by autocatalysis, which is not a random process. So your caiculation does not work even there
@Aarnoo Sylvänen
“Actually theory is not that DNA evolved first. There are much simpler self replicating RNA molecules (pathogens). There is an example:
Robertson MP, Joyce GF. Highly efficient self-replicating RNA enzymes. Chem Biol. 2014 Feb 20;21(2):238-45. doi: 10.1016/j.chembiol.2013.12.004. Epub 2014 Jan 2. PMID: 24388759; PMCID: PMC3943892.”
Thanks for the link, I read about this. However, I would say that the theory is not relevant for our problem.
We observe what we observe, the DNA is there. Who cares about the proces of how it got there, as if that would change the chance of the event to happen? Throw it in whatever blackbox you like.
“We observe what we observe, the DNA is there. Who cares about the proces of how it got there, as if that would change the chance of the event to happen?”
Another bad argument. You previously defined the process. Stringing beads, remember? Your statistical calculation depended on this process. Different process absolutely changes the chance of an event happening. Remember that YOUR preferred process is ‘God did it’ therefore probability = 1.
@ Lucas
“Thanks for the link, I read about this. However, I would say that the theory is not relevant for our problem. We observe what we observe, the DNA is there. Who cares about the proces of how it got there, as if that would change the chance of the event to happen?”
We do care, because if one accepts that ribosomes are enough to bootstrap evolution, we only need to evaluate the likelihood of the asymptotic appearance of such an event: the advent of the ribosome.
This therefore significantly lowers the threshold for the thesis we promote and you deny: evolution by natural selection.
Which, obviously, you can’t bear to contemplate.
Which is why not only do we care, though not as much as you would like to believe, but more importantly: you care. Because you have an axe to grind.
Which is why you deny that you care. To pull out a rhetorical stunt.
Yawn…
Don’t tell him about Virus World.
You care the process,making calculations how probably it is. Check the autocatalysis, too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAH_world_hypothesis
It happened by random change is not very scientific hypothesis
@F68.10
“Nature doesn’t think that way.”
– So what you’re saying is that functionality is less of a survival criterium then robustness. Perhaps so, I have to think that through.
Agree with your remark about our stupidity. You’re ultimately talking self extinction here. But then, I ‘m not sure about the definition. Stupidity is by accident, evil by plan. If you place evil under stupidity’s umbrella, where ultimately it belongs, I follow you. However, evil certainly is not a feature of an entire population, while stupidity fits in better.
“nature evolved an aspect separate from nature when evolving us, natural selection does evolve more robustness than functionality.”
– Either nature made the mistake and ultimately has evolution redo this, or we were made this way and along the way there was this cock up. I guess we disagree.
“The eyes were adjusted to nature, not the other way round.”
– So Hitchens says that our sense of esthetics – which is innate, as his “unlocking of the genome’s secrets” must have brought to light – adapts to what we observe.
That’s a theory of which Hitchen shows no proof. And he is wrong.
* Adaption as a function of the brain is a time consuming proces: getting used to. Just like the boy has always been confronted with green grass, and as a result adapted. If Hitchen is right, then any new object our brain observes takes processing time before it adapts. Quite the opposite is true. We don’t adapt at all but instantly have an opinion. How can that be?
The answer is simple: the brain does not adapt. Because of its innate sense of esthetics it immediatly recognises.
* Art should be original and is often innovative. But what is it that an artist guides? According to Hitchen he has this adaption, but that’s of no use for an artist. How will he be able to create? This is only possible based on his innate (as well as developed) sense of beauty – basically creative thinking combined with a sense for ratio’s.
* Have a look at this article, where the researcher (Slater) states that “Attractiveness is not in the eye of the beholder, it’s innate to a newborn infant”. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6355-babies-prefer-to-gaze-upon-beautiful-faces/
I would bury Hitchen under his own green grass.
And if you find a plausible alternative explanation to my thesis, I’m here. Until then we need a creator, I guess.
For you as a mathematician, from me as a(n industrial) designer: Art is about imperfectness, while mathematics is not. Art is never a copy.
@ Lucas
“Stupidity is by accident, evil by plan. If you place evil under stupidity’s umbrella, where ultimately it belongs, I follow you. However, evil certainly is not a feature of an entire population…”
I do not believe evil incarnates in a given segment of the population. Even the Taliban are not evil. They’re merely plainly deluded.
“Either nature made the mistake…”
Nature did not make a mistake. It doesn’t have our prejudiced opinions about what is a mistake and what is not a mistake.
“That’s a theory of which Hitchen shows no proof.”
That’s a quote from a whole book that’s designed as a genius-level rant. If you want philosophy and arguments, you should check out Michael Martin. You’ll have trouble whining your “this is not an argumeeeeent !!” mantra.
“The answer is simple: the brain does not adapt. Because of its innate sense of esthetics it immediatly recognises.”
This is a really weak weak brand of poorly digested platonism.
“Have a look at this article, where the researcher (Slater) states that “Attractiveness is not in the eye of the beholder, it’s innate to a newborn infant”.”
Do not need to read it. I know notions of aesthetics are innate. Doesn’t change the fact that it also is in the eye of the beholder.
“I would bury Hitchen under his own green grass.”
Oh, you sweet little punk ! What a little rebel to reject Mr. Hitchen’s intellectuel authority.
“And if you find a plausible alternative explanation to my thesis, I’m here. Until then we need a creator, I guess.”
Alternative explanation is there: evolution by natural selection.
“For you as a mathematician, from me as a(n industrial) designer: Art is about imperfectness, while mathematics is not.”
Bollocks. Mathematics is far from being perfect. Just got to understand, just now, the history of the first non-distributive lattice. If mathematics were more perfect that it is, such pesky little nothingburgers like non-distributive lattices would not exist. And Peirce would have been right: all lattices would have been distributive. Alas, it’s not. Because mathematics is much less perfect than you seem to think. Or rather, because that perfection always seems to lie one step beyond.
Have you said anything correct lately? Perhaps you need a creator to explain your sinful existence but your arrogance and ignorance just proves that you don’t have a way to show physical evidence of such creature.
Yea, we’re all nasty places over here helping people live a little longer.
Desperate invective is all you have.
Heck, the more you speak the more I know I am right.
@Squirelelite
“Well, Lucas, thanks for your reply.
I asked a question about the 5 year period that Malone referred to. You told me to ask the author of this blog, who clearly doesn’t agree with that delay period.”
– What is this 5 year period for then? It is this sort of irresponsible docters that can be a danger to our health. Rush, rush rush, but what for? Time out. We’re not dying like flies flying over a fire. Not most of us anyway. Protect the vulnerable, perhaps yes.
“As for the video, I could hardly care less what Sharyl Atkisson has to say about astroturf websites. Although we spend a fair amount of time countering people who cannot or will not research beyond them to see what the primary sources say.”
– Amazing. So, you just didn’t want this to actually be the case? Is this the hypnotising effect, that a well known psychologist makes us aware of?
“But if you like videos…”
Look, I don’t like what you’re doing now, sorry.
“You tell me not to the long term effects of Covid-19 which are exaggerated, but don’t point me to what you consider an accurate evaluation of their number.”
– You mean “not to look”? No, I didn’t say that. You should look at all relevant data. I tried to.
I don’t know the accurate evaluation data. When I stopped my own research there were no boosters yet. So it will be obsolete anyway now.
What I noticed myself is that the many people I know of that got Covid, don’t fit in that fear mongering scenario that you brought up. Not even one, really.
And what about you, you must know quite some people too that got Covid. And? In what shape are they now? Let me know, I’m curious.
And if you don’t know such cases, shall we just note that this may perhaps be a propaganda piece again?
“Instead you refer me to the adverse effects of these vaccines which are of concern but much, much less common than the long-term effects of the disease itself assuming you don’t die of it.”
– Take a walk every day, leave your stress behind you and use the proven supplements. Versus every 10 weeks or so a jab. And how harmful that may be.
And yes, I wrote about the adverse effects of the jabs in the people I know. But I guess we need not exaggerate that too, most are still live and hardly had any side effects. Al least up to now, that is. So all in all, I think this jab is reasonably safe, yes. But certainly not more then reasonable.
Perhaps this interests you: I know a large control group of which I have the data and they are no doubt honest in the reporting. I remember that just 4 had side effects (don’t know what, but be sure these were serious). I heard that all 4 recovered (what is recovered btw?). I need to dive into it to watch how big of a control group this was, I thought 44,000 but I can be dead wrong. And the side effects were measured only over a certain period. But it gives you true info. This ‘control group’ represents all groups of society and literally all countries of the globe are involved. And another thing, the people who are in the lead are pro vaxx, but that shouldn’t bother.
Let me know if you’re intersted in the total amount of people. It gives you a chance to have true info over a reasonably sized group, during the Delta variant I thought it was.
“You tell me the reports of adverse effects are not accurate but again don’t provide an accurate evaluation.”
– I have no accurate evaluation. The British data seemed to me as most reliable back then and the group was large, so I did an analsys on them. I haven’t looked since.
“Instead you mention the name of one man who died, but I didn’t find a reference to his case. The death of any man diminishes us all, but the death of 1205 in the U.S. yesterday diminishes us more.”
– This involved a Surinam acquintance of mine living here, but having relatives in Surinam. It was that woman who told me so. Honest to the bone, so what she said will be true.
The two with the fatigue disorder are the ones living next to my holiday address. They told me themselves. And the pulmonary problem is someone I know from birth.
Now, who died? The only victim who died of Covid was a 94 old Indonesian man. He was a healthy man. Extremely sad, though.
Then I know of a demented good acquintance of mine who got Covid. She was in fact killed with midazolam, without a doubt reported as a Covid casual.
Then there was someone I happened to meet just somewhere, unhealthy, in his 70’s. Was on the ventilator but survived. He said his neighbour died, don’t know who that was.
All in all, how bad is this pandemic? Of the 10 million group I just mentioned about one in every 500 (somewhat more actually) have died so far, source is reliable. Not good, certainly not too bad either I’d say. Like a bad flu? What we should keep in mind though, is that this figure will only get worse as the pandemic keeps on hitting us. So, in the end our concusion may be different, it may turn out to be a real killer.
Feel free to describe me what happened to the people around you. That will provide me some extra context.
“You keep coming back to your personal observations, so I would point you to the Wikipedia case and death counts for the Netherlands.”
– Sorry, the case counts of my country I see not as trustworthy.
“My country is suffering a 0.992% CFR because most of the hospitalized cases still come from the 15-20% of the population who continue to refuse to get vaccinated. But at least that is down from the 1.57% cumulative number and the 2% number we were running last year.”
– Here it is different stories each and every time with those numbers, depending on the narrative. By now it is by far the vaccinated that end up in hospitals here. The unvaccinated in my country that get really sick, you find among the non-natives (Maroc, Turkey), often with a not so healthy lifestyle and older. The native unvaccinated are mostly younger people. I hear more frequent that they now end up in hospital too. I guess also to get them vaxxed now. Geert van den Bossche (google him if you like) was right in this prediction. The higher aged unvaxxed natives will be the ones that know how to protect themselves. They will only get vaxxed if you leave them a choice between the vaxx and a bullet.
“I have been reading this and other similar blogs for many years because I find the articles informative and many of the comments lead me to new material which helps me learn even more. Regrettably, your contribution to that process is minimal.”
It is minimal indeed. It has no use to discuss medical matters with people that are no specialists, our good docter included. Furthermore, in my opinion Covid isn’t even the real threat.
Besides, I would try and find my info in the medical literature, you should be able to read that with your background
I hope you found any useful info here.
Please post links to any scientific research you think I should look at.
Again, Malone said
People keep citing this number and I ask them to explain and they dodge the question or don’t respond at all.
Several of the vaccines we have developed in the last 60 years or so have turned out to have rare but significant side effects. In some cases those have led to changing to a different vaccine or withdrawing the vaccine.
But, in all those cases, the side effects were detected within 2 months of the start of mass administration. Vaccines go through several phases of testing. Phase 3 tests the largest number of subjects to evaluate safety and effectiveness. The Covid-19 vaccines generally had about 45,000 subjects with half receiving the vaccines. That is enough to detect 1 in 1,000 to 1 in 5,000 effects but not enough to detect 1 in 100,000 effects like myocarditis or CVST/TTS.
Those effects are detected in Phase 4 monitoring after general administration begins which has been a year now. And we haven’t detected any post 2 month surprise effects.
So again why should it take 5 years and what more can we reasonably expect to learn about the risks?
@F68.10
“There’s money in Switzerland. In conspiratorial lingo, I was what is called a Gnome of Zürich. And you do not need to know much more.”
– May be I do. But better save it for writing your memoires.
“A risk manager is not a fund manager. And some mathematicians are fund managers.”
– At the EOE we had a bunch of American traders and one was a mathematician too. I guess he was more of the technical analyst within this group. He was the only one that ever laid contact and took time for a chat. Of course the personal was seperated from the traders.
“I was the one whose work constrained the actions of other actors, included those of fund managers who were a bit too brash.”
– Like an in-house lawyer. Not an easy job.
“No need to.”
– Thnx, you already did.
@ Lucas
“– May be I do. But better save it for writing your memoires.”
No, you don’t. It simply is none of your business, and you’d be ill advised to pretend it is.
And, no, I’ll never write memoirs. I lack the narcissism.
“– At the EOE we had a bunch of American traders and one was a mathematician too. I guess he was more of the technical analyst within this group. He was the only one that ever laid contact and took time for a chat. Of course the personal was seperated from the traders.”
No “traders” where I worked.
“– Like an in-house lawyer. Not an easy job.”
Nope. Like someone producing report. Reports that are taken seriously by people who understand that not taking them seriously means taking the risk of blowing up.
“No need to.”
“– Thnx, you already did.”
Nope. I did not tell you my story. I merely explained what the job of a risk manager is. It’s public knowledge. No data you’ll harvest here about me will be remotely useful to you in any way in your crusade against Big Money, i.e. the Devil’s Feces, as Saint-François did put it.
@squirrelelite
“But, in all those cases, the side effects were detected within 2 months of the start of mass administration.
So again why should it take 5 years and what more can we reasonably expect to learn about the risks?”
The maligned docter Charles Hoffe has been performing D-dimer tests on his mRNA ‘vaccinated’ patients and found that 62 percent of them apparently had microscopic blood clots. He says:
“These people have no idea they are even having these microscopic blood clots. The most alarming part of this is that there are some parts of the body like the brain, spinal cord, heart and lungs which cannot re-generate. When those tissues are damaged by blood clots they are permanently damaged.”
I once had such D-dimer test myself and it told the physician something wasn’t right: blood clots. If these are very small (micro-thromboses), you may just feel a headache, feel tired or perhaps you don’t notice anything. Can you tell me the percentage of the vaccinated that experienced such light but permanent damage? I guess you cannot, as it is not researched, at least I wasn’t able to find any medical report on the topic. There will perhaps be more effects that are not yet known, but isn’t that exactly what this 5 year term is for? Then we will be able to find out what the effect is of each successive shot too and how possible damage will add up so that it becomes apparent.
Does this answer your question?
Another thought. You know that allergies may take time to build up. They often are caused by medication. How can you be so sure that with the recurrent shots, some won’t develop allergies as a result? Perhaps a 5 year term will provide clarity?
You didn’t seem to like it when your posts aren’t replied. In that respect I find it a bit remarkable how you keep avoiding some of my questions.
By the way, I am not in this world for pharmaceutics. It is supposed to be there for me. Can you try and explain this constant pushing of taking vaccines? Why don’t the overarching organisations leave us alone? Especially so, now that it is apparent that a vaccinated can be just as contagious as someone that’s not? What could be going on in your opinion?
Even more so when perhaps / probably a society needs an unvaccinated group to get out of a pandemic? Again: see Geert van den Bossche. I don’t need to provide a link, just google him and you’ll reach his website where you’ll find the info easily. Btw, he spent an article refuting an article of our good docter here. You can draw your own conclusions.
Both you and the (rightly) maligned Dr. Hoffe have a very poor understanding of D-dimer testing.
A result higher than the normal reference range could mean a clotting disorder. It can also be caused by numerous other factors, including cigarette smoking, pregnancy, inflammation, malignancy, trauma, postsurgical treatment, liver disease and heart disease. It tends to be elevated in hospitalized patients and the elderly. False positives are also seen in people with high triglyceride levels, increased bilirubin and elevated serum rheumatoid factor levels.
So, unless Hoffe controlled for all of these factors and rigorously tested sufficient non-Covid patients for D-dimer, his findings are basically worthless.
Again, a positive D-dimer test does NOT equate to “microscopic blood clots”.
More info here:
http://reuters.com/article/factcheck-mrna-clots/fact-check-there-is-no-evidence-that-mrna-vaccines-are-linked-to-blood-clots-idUSL1N2PY1K2
Thanks for the info. I did axquick check of my last bloodwork which included a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel and a CBC. I didn’t see a d-dimer test.
I may ask my doctor about it next time.
I’m more interested in saving lives than anomaly hunting.
[…] “Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist. Dr. Robert Malone, ‘inventor of mRNA vaccines,’ while still straining to maintain a pretense of being provaccine, went full antivaccine this week and is drifting farther and farther from reality and deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories.”—”Whenever someone ‘challenges’ me like this, I almost always respond, ‘Be careful what you wish for.’ So I’ll answer right now: Yes, Dr. Malone is wrong, and, although he clearly has a PhD and did do some interesting work getting mRNA into cells to express proteins decades ago, I do question his qualifications these days. Even if he’s ‘qualified,’ qualifications alone are not enough, particularly if you use them in the service of spreading disinformation, which Malone undoubtedly is.” […]
@F68.10
“I do not believe evil incarnates in a given segment of the population.”
– Agree, but where there’s humans there’s stupidity, no matter the segment.
“Even the Taliban are not evil.”
– How to define evil? Profound wickedness?
Hypothetically, would you call a planned pandemic by means of a virus that was made more transmissible and lethal and then intentionally released to kill millions, wicked? You might argue that the reduced number of people is a remedy for nature. Is it just the lens if we have no absolute framework?
“They’re merely plainly deluded.”
Western nationalism is just as deluded.
“Nature did not make a mistake. It doesn’t have our prejudiced opinions about what is a mistake and what is not a mistake.”
– Agree.
“That’s a quote from a whole book that’s designed as a genius-level rant. If you want philosophy and arguments, you should check out Michael Martin. You’ll have trouble whining your “this is not an argumeeeeent !!” mantra.”
– I prefer your rant and have the context. As such this was crap.
“Doesn’t change the fact that it also is in the eye of the beholder.”
You like a Volkswagen, I a Chevy. Variation gives preference that colors the world. One design is not superior over the other as long as both are styled in ‘harmony’. Harmony is balance in proportions. There is not much room for deviation, cause either the harmony isn’t there or you’re overstepping the bounderies of a given theme.
And don’t forget degeneration as an argument for corruptcy; the brain of a ‘beholder’ has become poor in a specific task. It’s known that with some missing genes you don’t value music, any music. All you hear is incoherent noise. That’s degeneration.
In my opinion we’re all degenerated to some degree. Which btw is a non-evolutionary argument.
“Alternative explanation is there: evolution by natural selection.”
– If existing esthetics isn’t functional, natural selection is no argument.
“Mathematics is far from being perfect.”
There goes my world view.
Perhaps then it’s art?
I realise I still have to answer that post about the start of WW2.
With excuses for my sometimes offensive words. When I read back some of my lines, I’m wondering who the jerk is. Oh well, I claim degeneration.
@ Lucas
“– Agree, but where there’s humans there’s stupidity, no matter the segment.”
You should review your theo-psychology: you believe stupidity is a choice. You therefore believe that people are responsible for being what you define to be evil.
Not only you’re wrong on that, but you’d better be correct on what you identify as evil. And you’re not.
“Hypothetically, would you call a planned pandemic by means of a virus that was made more transmissible and lethal and then intentionally released to kill millions, wicked?”
Yes. But you have no proof that this is the case. You’re therefore no better than a pakistani lynch mob hunting blasphemers. You have no legitimate claims to moral authority.
“Western nationalism is just as deluded.”
I do not consider myself a “nationalist”. But you are deluded.
“I prefer your rant and have the context. As such this was crap.”
You enjoy poor arguments like this ? You’re only fond of posturing. When you’ll have grown up and when you’ll understand that arguments are more worthwile than posturing, you’ll then do yourself a favor by reading genuine arguments like Michael Martin’s.
“In my opinion we’re all degenerated to some degree. Which btw is a non-evolutionary argument.”
Stop reading Evola. You’re already deranged enough.
“If existing esthetics isn’t functional, natural selection is no argument.”
You’re unclear. But no, we adapt. The fact that we perceive beauty or not may well be a property that evolution evolved without genuine use for it, but did not bother erasing as it was robust enough. I do not find that highly likely, but you just can’t discard that perspective with the brush of a hand.
““Mathematics is far from being perfect.” There goes my world view. Perhaps then it’s art?”
I’d say it’s ultra-physics. What no Deity may turn around or amend. Where any putative God’s free will ends and over which it cannot trespass.
“With excuses for my sometimes offensive words. When I read back some of my lines, I’m wondering who the jerk is. Oh well, I claim degeneration.”
I’m more offended by your mental attitude than your words, but as long as you can’t physically hurt me, I’m fine with your offensive words.
@1000 Links to a Furlongsays:
“Have you said anything correct lately?”
– Depends on your bias.
“Perhaps you need a creator to explain your sinful existence but your arrogance and ignorance just proves that you don’t have a way to show physical evidence of such creature.”
– All this hate. It was a thesis in response to a silly remark. Wasn’t ment to be discussed, I wrote. And I’m not selling, just thinking.
A little bit of arrogance? Sure. Like F68.10 said: It’s arrogance against arrogance.” Perhaps take yourself in the equation?
“Yea, we’re all nasty places over here helping people live a little longer.”
– ‘Helping people’? Often this means something they don’t want to hear.
Serving other’s people interest is not appreciated. Serving your own is.
“Desperate invective is all you have.”
– Invective? Then I’m worried and try and solve a situation in the benefit of all. Like what you doubt – but has already started – we will loose the freedom we were used to. Desperate? Not really. I can leave whenever I want to and stay under the radar, but I had rather they leave me alone. How about you?
Heck, the more you speak the more I know I am right.
I listen to others that are right. Go on, when it’s not just some claim.
@ Lucas
“Have you said anything correct lately?”
– Depends on your bias.
I have a bias for correct and evidence based statements. I’m funny that way.
“Perhaps you need a creator to explain your sinful existence but your arrogance and ignorance just proves that you don’t have a way to show physical evidence of such creature.”
– All this hate. It was a thesis in response to a silly remark. Wasn’t ment to be discussed, I wrote. And I’m not selling, just thinking.
A little bit of arrogance? Sure. Like F68.10 said: It’s arrogance against arrogance.” Perhaps take yourself in the equation?
Hate? You are a tender thing. Hard to take you seriously when you resort to insinuating physicians are somehow related to Nazi’s for promoting vaccination along with other deniers who are even worse in their belief. You have some serious hate in you.
What problem is it you are trying to solve again?
The more I listen to you the more clear it is you are wrong about COVID. Your knowledge is bad and just getting worse.
@ 1000 Links for a Furlong
“The more I listen to you the more clear it is you are wrong about COVID. Your knowledge is bad and just getting worse.”
Yep. But he’s convinced otherway.
But, at least, he’s been warned he’s wrong.
@ Lucas
“Like F68.10 said: It’s arrogance against arrogance.” Perhaps take yourself in the equation?”
You’re the one being mighty arrogant. You’re the one legitimising an arrogant and dismissive attitude towards your arrogant ignorance and arrogant conspiracy theories verging on antisemitism.
Correct your attitude. And we’ll correct ours. Till then…
@squirrelelitesays:
Yeah, do ask for the D-dimer test. Don’t forget to ask for aspiration!
And stay relaxed. No need for compulsion.
“I’m more interested in saving lives than anomaly hunting.”
Yeah, okay. But how healthy is it when 24 hours a day you hear Covid, Covid, Covid. There is something else in life too: to live.
@Dangerous Bacon
“Both you and the (rightly) maligned Dr. Hoffe have a very poor understanding of D-dimer testing.”
– First, please introduce yourself, at least I don’t know your background.
Just “poor” would have sufficed. Whenever I read strong statements I smell rats.
“A result higher than the normal reference range could mean a clotting disorder.”
– I’m sure any phycisian knows this. Think Hoffe lost it all?
“It can also be caused by numerous other factors, including cigarette smoking, pregnancy, inflammation, malignancy, trauma, postsurgical treatment, liver disease and heart disease. It tends to be elevated in hospitalized patients and the elderly. False positives are also seen in people with high triglyceride levels, increased bilirubin and elevated serum rheumatoid factor levels.”
– And you mention this in order to immediatly reject that the jab might have caused it?
Perhaps what you should have told us is that Hoffe had to do the test before the jab as well? And where did you read he didn’t?
So, unless Hoffe controlled for all of these factors and rigorously tested sufficient non-Covid patients for D-dimer, his findings are basically worthless.
Why would he have to test for all these factors? A before and after test seems more logic to me. Am I missing something?
Again, a positive D-dimer test does NOT equate to “microscopic blood clots”.
I guess then in an average group of people, before jabbing it, you expect the same percentage? If not you have some explaining to do. Why this 62%?
“More info here: http://reuters.com/article/factcheck-mrna-clots/fact-check-there-is-no-evidence-that-mrna-vaccines-are-linked-to-blood-clots-idUSL1N2PY1K2”
– Ah, our fact checking journalists again. And ready to fact check for you. For free, no strings attached.
“However, experts told Reuters there is no evidence of this”, Reuters says.
– What relief. “Experts told Reuters”, what claim is that?
“Current research has not shown a link between mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and blood clots”, Reuters states.
– Such coincidence then that a good acquintance of mine soon after vaccination developed a life threatening pulmonary embolism. Due to the vaccine? No way. Why not? Because they’re safe.
Oh and before I am being called some liar again now using an occasion argument: please check my previous posts. I’ve written it a dozen times or so.
@Lucas:
YOU are the one making the claim. YOU need to show that he did.
Because those factors are confounders that could skew the results. And to get a baseline.
You’re supporting Hoffe because he’s telling you what you want to believe. We’re showing you that his claims are problematic.
@ Julian Frost
“YOU are the one making the claim. YOU need to show that he did.”
Yeah. Lucas keeps getting that bit wrong. We’ll have to hammer it in. Pitilessly.
“First, please introduce yourself”
I’m a man of wealth and taste. More to the point, an M.D. with training and experience in laboratory medicine.
“I am not really into studying D-dimer testing right now.” Translation: “I am unwilling to acknowledge and remedy my ignorance.”
@F68.10
“You should review your theo-psychology: you believe stupidity is a choice. You therefore believe that people are responsible for being what you define to be evil. Not only you’re wrong on that, but you’d better be correct on what you identify as evil. And you’re not.”
– What outburst is this? You started this ‘stupidity’ argument yourself out of nowehere.
My ‘stupidity is a choice’ remark was a bit of teasing I hoped you could handle. Not.
“Yes. But you have no proof that this is the case.”
– You don’t, I do. Like I said we made a big bet against the index as there was a huge bell ringing at the exact right moment. We did know about the plan, we saw the commotion from Wuhan and what we expected the fear mongering we knew the media (if you know who owns the media you know the narrative) would make out of it. We saw the Chines stock market collapse. So when covid got into Europe through chinese that went to Italy, it was the moment to buy. Bloody easy. Investing is never about conspiracy shit, we knew what was going on. Just like meanwhile anyone should know what the hell is going on. But no. Fine, then pay the price.
In order to avoid the discussion you read the word “Hypothetically”.
“You have no legitimate claims to moral authority.
I do not consider myself a “nationalist”. But you are deluded.”
– Compliment taken. Stop your wining, I never claimed moral authority nor did I suggest you being a nationalist. Based on what you say this? Rediculous.
“You enjoy poor arguments like this ? You’re only fond of posturing. When you’ll have grown up and when you’ll understand that arguments are more worthwile than posturing, you’ll then do yourself a favor by reading genuine arguments like Michael Martin’s.”
– Why you start wining if your quoted Hitchen is wrong?
Strange that people get so angry when they have no clue themselves. Vent on someone else please!
“Stop reading Evola. You’re already deranged enough.”
Don’t need reading if I can reach conclusion myself. Why do people always have to read? So that someone else can do the thinking for them and they can parrot? Reading subjectivity without exception means that the writer influences you. Perhaps ‘brain washes you’ is the better description.
“”If existing esthetics isn’t functional, natural selection is no argument.””
“You’re unclear. But no, we adapt. The fact that we perceive beauty or not may well be a property that evolution evolved without genuine use for it, but did not bother erasing as it was robust enough. I do not find that highly likely, but you just can’t discard that perspective with the brush of a hand.”
– “Evolution without use”… Like I said, you run out of arguments. Blame me.
“I’d say it’s ultra-physics. What no Deity may turn around or amend. Where any putative God’s free will ends and over which it cannot trespass.”
– This should be science and science only. Shame you cannot handle that.
“I’m more offended by your mental attitude than your words, but as long as you can’t physically hurt me, I’m fine with your offensive words.”
– Yeah, my mental attitude. Now it’s ad hominem.
Better we close the discussion. It seems to irritate you.
@ Lucas
“Better we close the discussion. It seems to irritate you.”
I told you. I do whatever I damn like.
“What outburst is this? You started this ‘stupidity’ argument yourself out of nowehere. My ‘stupidity is a choice’ remark was a bit of teasing I hoped you could handle. Not.”
You’re the one who’s been going rogue on this blog, ranting about evil and stupidity. And, as usual with hypocrites, you accuse others of your own sins.
“You don’t, I do.”
OK. You have proof of a plandemic. But 1. you’re not giving it and 2. as with all proselytes, you keep ranting that we should trust you on faith. You’re the one bugging us. Not the other way round. Seems you’re unaware of it.
“Compliment taken. Stop your wining, I never claimed moral authority nor did I suggest you being a nationalist.”
Then why do you keep ranting about evil if you do not claim moral authority. Why do raise nationalism as if it were an argument if you’re not intent on weaponising it.
You’re incoherent.
“Why you start wining if your quoted Hitchen is wrong? Strange that people get so angry when they have no clue themselves. Vent on someone else please!”
Hitchens is always right even when he’s wrong. He says so himself. Which is proof. You do not like Hitchens ? OK. I’ve got Michael Martin.
How the bloody hell does your twisted mind sees whining in the above paragraph ? Again: you’re incoherent.
“Don’t need reading if I can reach conclusion myself. Why do people always have to read?”
Good question !!! Because people who came before us wrote texts. Fixated ideas. It then provides historical reference. Reference helps criticism as a name is identified with an argument.
Which is why it is important to read: to understand our collective intellectual heritage. To zero in on arguments by being able to mentally identify with a man or a context.
This is very simple. This is the way culture creates itself. And culture is the bedrock of civilisation. Being anti-reading is being anti-civilisation.
“So that someone else can do the thinking for them and they can parrot ?”
See how confused you are ? Just read the previous paragraph again. You got it all wrong.
“Reading subjectivity without exception means that the writer influences you. Perhaps ‘brain washes you’ is the better description.”
Bullshit. You’re not at school. You’re on the Internet. You can read both Lucretius and the Quran. Nothing stops you. This is precisely the opposite of being brain-washed: getting to know arguments you disagree with in the way they genuinely are formulated and not in the way it pleases you to imagine them as it pleases your imagination.
In order: to get real.
““Evolution without use”… Like I said, you run out of arguments.”
No. This is the standard evolutionary arguments. What counts is survival. Robustness. Not functionality. Functionality is at best a by-product of robustness.
Your dismissive attitude merely means you’re not interested in getting to know what the mainstream position on evolution is. You’re more comfortable imagining that position to be as it pleases you. Same problem as before.
“This should be science and science only. Shame you cannot handle that.”
Mathematics and logic is what it is. Ultra-physics, in some sense. Wittgenstein agrees. Lukiasiewicz agrees. But Indie Rebel does not… because he wants to put whatever it pleases to him behind the word “science”…
Science may be defined very simply, Indie Rebel. Science is what is not BS.
Which is why Mathematics and logic are science. And ultra-physics. No false distinction here…
“Yeah, my mental attitude. Now it’s ad hominem. Better we close the discussion. It seems to irritate you.”
Nope. It’s not ad hominem. A substianted inference drawn from the behaviour you exhibit on a blog.
An ad hominem is different. It’s an attach on the basis that you’re this or that to evade discussing the issue at hand by engineering a rhetorical diversion. I’m not doing that at all. I’m treating your points one by one.
On the other, your unhealthy curiosity about my past as a risk manager does veer on the ad hominem attack. I’m fine with it. Feel free to bring it on.
@ Lucas
Sorry. Got you mixed up with Indie Rebel. Make the change mentally, and the comment stands.
“So that someone else can do the thinking for them and they can parrot ?”
Like a science book. Or political manifesto. Or the Bible……
Yah. The problem here is that your “knowledge” of “the plan” would have had your guess of the market bottom too early. Any idiot can buy into a crash, with no need for decoding imaginary machinations.
“Such coincidence then that a good acquintance of mine soon after vaccination developed a life threatening pulmonary embolism.”
There may be something to this. It’s a RARE complication that has been noted in the J&J vaccine. Most patients had undiagnosed coagulopathies. The spike protein has been reported to bind fibrinogen and there are a couple of other proposed mechanisms for thrombosis with spike alone. It is termed “Vaccine-associated immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT)”
Regardless: “In the United States, the risks of this syndrome following Ad26.COV2.S receipt was assessed as 3.8 cases and 0.57 deaths per million doses overall, and 9 to 10.6 cases and 1.8 to 1.93 deaths per million doses for females 30 to 49 years old”
So younger women have a higher risk. By way of contrast-the risk of death from oral contraceptives due to thrombosis is about 9.6 per million. So four or five times as high as the vaccine and they are handed out like candy everyday. Let’s keep some perspective. Also, your odds of a severe clogging event go up exponentially as you get sicker with covid. I’ve watched it happen many times. Ounce of prevention vs pounds and pounds of cure.
This article is garbage. I read the words “conspiracy”, “quack”, “disinformation” and “mongering” more often than valid arguments against Malone’s claims.
I couldn’t complete a paragraph without reading the word “conspiracy”. Almost every time the author uses this word, it makes him sound like an idiot.
Malone claims that the vaccine has bugs.
If I claim that Windows 1.0 had a lot of bugs, that’s not a conspiracy. If you want to debate, prove to me that it doesn’t have bugs. Don’t say that it’s a conspiracy to criticize your holy grail.
Don’t say that it’s safe and effective. CDC VAERS and Pfizer’s Feb 28 report already disagree with you.
Except that VAERS does nothing of the sort.
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/12/27/2021-the-year-the-weaponization-of-vaers-went-mainstream/
You’re not very smart or clever, are you? Malone is a conspiracy monger, quack, and antivaxxers, as I’ve shown.
No one cares about your opinion here and there’s plenty experience that your claims are wrong. Try to love sometime.
Just to amuse you and more me … where is your heart ??
Julian Frostsays:
“Perhaps what you should have told us is that Hoffe had to do the test before the jab as well? And where did you read he didn’t?”
YOU are the one making the claim. YOU need to show that he did.
– No of course not, Reuters attacking Hoffe should show that Hoffe lacks knowledge on basic D-dimer testing. If Reuters thinks differently then it’s up to them to prove what went so wrong.
“So, unless Hoffe controlled for all of these factors and rigorously tested sufficient non-Covid patients for D-dimer, his findings are basically worthless.” “All these factors”… “rigorously”… please stop the BS. Just a before and after testing. Again, how did Reuters find out that Hoffe didn’t?
A non biased phycisian here might respond on Reuters other claims. I am not really into studying D-dimer testing right now.
“”Why would he have to test for all these factors?””
“Because those factors are confounders that could skew the results. And to get a baseline.
You’re supporting Hoffe because he’s telling you what you want to believe. We’re showing you that his claims are problematic.”
– Wrong again, you don’t seem to read well. I said just a before and after testing. Cut your crap, please. Or unvalid that claim.
“We’re showing you”
– You seem a sneaky person to me. Naively asking, while trying to set up a trap. And now it is “We’re showing you”. And as usual ignoring the arguments, like you’ve done up to now.
I think you’re lying about not having any involvement with your good docter.
Perhaps you are even involved in a market investigation by some pharmaceutical or the US government, finding out what the arguments are for non-vaxxers, perhaps doing some statistics so that your government knows to attack on argument and perhaps closing down websites. Just a thought, whatever.
Good luck with your game.
Bye Julian.
Again, Lucas, nowhere in your comment do you show that Hoffe did a “before and after” test. And your strawmanning “Reuters attacking Hoffe should show that Hoffe lacks knowledge on basic D-dimer testing. If Reuters thinks differently then it’s up to them to prove what went so wrong.” does not handwave that inconvenient fact away.
Like the Terminator, you’ll be back. Plenty of commenters “storm out” then return.
@NumberWang
““So that someone else can do the thinking for them and they can parrot ?””
“Like a science book. Or political manifesto. Or the Bible……”
Reading is submission. You open your mind to someone that carries you away with a message. True, be it a science book, Bible, political manifesto.
Learning theory, fine. But instead of reading floods of ‘subjectivism’ – synonym for brain washing – do your own philosophy.
Much better to proudly get lost in train stations.
@ Lucas
“Reading is submission. You open your mind to someone that carries you away with a message.”
Oh boy… the worst pro-ignorance gambit I’ve ever come across.
Reading is not submission.
Reading is emancipation.
It allows you to open your mind in a way that allows you not to get carried away with the ignorance you encounter every day when talking to anti-civilisation people like you.
Books are the record of our intellectual history.
Deciding to do away with them is ensuring the end of civilisation.
And not all books are equal.
@MedicalYeti
“There may be something to this. It’s a RARE complication that has been noted in the J&J vaccine. Most patients had undiagnosed coagulopathies. The spike protein has been reported to bind fibrinogen and there are a couple of other proposed mechanisms for thrombosis with spike alone. It is termed “Vaccine-associated immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT)””
– It was Pfizer.
The two people (with the fatigue syndrom or worse): both Pfizer.
The cases in Surinam: unknown, have to ask.
Thanks for the explanation, I read about that too.
“Regardless: “In the United States, the risks of this syndrome following Ad26.COV2.S receipt was assessed as 3.8 cases and 0.57 deaths per million doses overall, and 9 to 10.6 cases and 1.8 to 1.93 deaths per million doses for females 30 to 49 years old””
– I need to know all about the underlying reporting first, as such these numbers have no meaning. Could just as well be a 1000 fold or more.
So younger women have a higher risk. By way of contrast-the risk of death from oral contraceptives due to thrombosis is about 9.6 per million. So four or five times as high as the vaccine and they are handed out like candy everyday. Let’s keep some perspective. Also, your odds of a severe clogging event go up exponentially as you get sicker with covid. I’ve watched it happen many times. Ounce of prevention vs pounds and pounds of cure.
– It happened to a woman between 65 and 70.
Then one should not attract covid and live and protect him- or herself the way I do. If they did, no one would remember the word Corona.
Of all the people I know that got Covid, which is quite a few meanwhile, none had any lasting effect.
Like I mentioned to your collegue, I know the true cases of a true control group followed during a relatively small period after vaccination (after “vaccination”,that must have been first and second dose). I just saw the video again: control group is 66,000, age between 20 and 65, mid 2021. Group is divided over the globe and live a more then average healthy life. 4 Severe cases out of 66,000, with lasting side effects, no one died.
Voila, real numbers: 1 : 16,500 serious (and lasting as I undertood from the use of words). Just in this short period of time. What will happen over time with the control group and after many new rounds of vaccination? Of course the numbers with such serious side effects go up. How would side effects look like if the control group had not lived a healthy life and if you include the 65+? Go ahead an tell me what to expect then.
Your conclusions however are meaningless as I cannot varify any data on your source. And you cannot too, for that matter. So why use the data?
Explain again why you think my conclusions are meaningless?
@ MedicalYeti
“Explain again why you think my conclusions are meaningless?”
Because he cannot verify your data.
And, of course, you can verify his data…
Of course you can…
Boy !! I’ve seldom met such a b-llsh-tter !!
Updates on Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS). ACIP Meeting December 16, 2021. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-12-16/02-COVID-See-508.pdf (Accessed on December 17, 2021
@F68.10
@ Julian Frost
“”YOU are the one making the claim. YOU need to show that he did.””
“Yeah. Lucas keeps getting that bit wrong. We’ll have to hammer it in. Pitilessly.”
You’re wrong, see comment @Julian.
Lucas, I don’t know if you are addressing me or F68.10, but you are the one who is wrong.
You claim that Hoffe performed D-dimer tests on people both before and after they were vaccinated, but you haven’t given us any proof of this. Give us a link to where it shows that Hoffe did this. I went through all of your comments. You haven’t linked to any proof that Hoffe did before and after testing.
@ Lucas
“You’re wrong, see comment @Julian.”
I’m not. You’ve played this burden of proof gambit on me as well. Repeatedly.
B-llsh-tter identified.
@Dangerous Bacon
“Again, a positive D-dimer test does NOT equate to “microscopic blood clots”.
– Forgot to ask you to back this up, incl. mentioning your source.
D-dimer measures protein fragments of blood clots floating in the bloodstream. D-dimer levels rise sharply when the body is breaking down the clots. Ask yourself what is the difference between a million and a million times one?
I did a Google search for ‘factors influencing D-dimer test’.
Dimer is useless unless it is zero for all practical purposes.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You care the process,making calculations how probably it is. Check the autocatalysis, too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAH_world_hypothesis
It happened by random change is not very scientific hypothesis”
If the proces wasn’t random, then what was it?
The article in the link is not about guidance.
Only in case of guidance you cannot use calculation of chance for the 3 billion pairs of digits in a specific order that we see in the end. The two factors I used were time and location for the event to occur. What other factors would you take into account?
Please start that RNA world hypothesis, but it is irrelevant, really. If you think it is not, please do explain.
3 billion base pairs is human DNA. There are organisms out there with much, much shorter DNA. If random formation of complete DNA was the source of life then you’d only need a simple organism to boot up natural selection.
You assumed a tiny fraction of time for one ‘try’ (at getting the required order) and then assumed that all other ‘tries’ happened in series, when, in fact, they would be happening in parallel. Estimating how many parallel operations there could be is difficult, but certainly billions.
You never realised that there is as much chance of the combination you are looking for happening on the FIRST attempt as there is on the last.
Interestingly enough (to me) you could argue that those probabilities include other planets. If life is rare in the universe then it maybe that a life bearing Earth is the statistical outlier (survivor bias).
However, I wonder if life is, in fact, inevitable. Given the requisite resources and conditions on Earth 4 billion years ago, maybe life happens by default.
It was autocatalysis, PAH actually guided formation of RNA backbone
@Aarno Syvänen
“If you lose your home, banks just get money they owned. They make same money, and much simpler way, when you are paying back your loan. Not to mention house housebuilders,
Actually purpose of any commercial activity is to earrn money, if you want power you go to politics.
So you really believe that a criminal will tell you that he is going to commit a crime ? Like, I will rob you tomorrow ? That is really stupid.
You did not notice that thing before the pandemic, either”
No, banks basically don’t own money.
The segregation you mention that shoud be there, is vanishing. Politicians are loosing power to the benefit of corporations that are integrating in policy-making at the national and international levels. A short reply to what you say is that through this takeover of global governance, the corporations get to the power and the money. In this corporate hijack The World Economic Forum agenda fits in, as the WEF is one of the world’s most powerful multi-stakeholder institutions.
Perhaps I will get deeper into this a next time, as it explains to great extend a lot of we see (and not see) going on.
We will rob you tomorrow is what the WEF basically says. Of course in your ‘benefit’. It is tactics that work when you say what you prepare.
And yes, so much was going on before the pandemic.
Here is an example of the involvement of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation who as the funders, are together with the WEF actively pushing for global vaccine passports. They are also the main proponents of the so-called Great Reset. It is made offical through the WHO. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-Digital_certificates-vaccination-2021.1
A question in the sideline, why this involvement and why the push?
Hmm, so Lucas is now interested in learning more about the D-dimer test, and why an elevated level does not equate to microscopic blood clots? Better late than never.
The following is a list of conditions in which D-dimer may be elevated, from a 2011 paper in Clinical Chemistry. Note how many are not clotting disorders.
Table 1.Conditions characterized by increased D-dimer concentrations.
Old age Stroke
Neonatal period Peripheral arteriopathy
Pregnancy Aneurism
Hospitalization Congestive cardiac failure
Disability Hemolysis (falciform anemia)
Infection Hemorrhage
Tumor Acute respiratory distress syndrome
Recent surgery Liver or renal disease
Trauma, burns Inflammatory bowel disease
DIC Thrombolytic therapy
VTE Aortic dissection
Ischemic cardiopathy
Similar information can be had from many other reliable sources. Google is your friend.
Medical Yeti is correct. D-dimer testing is most useful in that a normal reading helps rule out a clotting disorder like pulmonary embolism or venous thromboembolism. But an elevated level in the absence of corroborating clinical, laboratory and imaging data is of very little value. It’s nonsense to claim that a positive D-dimer test after vaccination equates to “microscopic blood clots”.
Got it?
@ Lucas
“No, banks basically don’t own money.”
Banks have balance sheets. And yes, what they lend is owed to them. They own a debt, i.e. yours, and monetise it.
“Politicians are loosing power to the benefit of corporations that are integrating in policy-making at the national and international levels.”
Politicians are losing power to demagogues, to their own bureaucracies, to organised crime. Big Business have transparency issues, they wield influence through lobbying, but they can be cracked down upon by any genuinely motivated political class.
So you got it wrong. The other way round.
Example: international taxation agreed upon on big companies. This is what politicians can do if they want to.
“A short reply to what you say is that through this takeover of global governance…”
Not true.
“In this corporate hijack The World Economic Forum agenda fits in, as the WEF is one of the world’s most powerful multi-stakeholder institutions.”
The WEF does not hold power. It is were some people meet. These people have competing interests. But, yes, they do meet, discuss issues, make roadmaps, toss ideas around, and because of the importance of such people as those that you see in WEF, these ideas are taken seriously. And then implemented in policy if vetted by politicians that you do elect.
But, yes, when Olivier Blanchard of the IMF makes a talk of macro projections about inflation, deflation, debt, it is taken seriously. And does and did translate into politics around here, at least before the pandemic made all these plans intellectually bankrupt.
Blanchard is doing a good job.
“Perhaps I will get deeper into this a next time, as it explains to great extend a lot of we see (and not see) going on.”
Methink not. Methink you’re on DMT.
“We will rob you tomorrow is what the WEF basically says. Of course in your ‘benefit’. It is tactics that work when you say what you prepare.”
No. No. No. The WEF lays plans. But it’s not about “robbing you”. It’s about making money move around for the greater good. When China got in the WTO, the West gradually got robbed. But there were geopolitical reasons that were too important not to include China in the WTO. We now know the West was being too kind. But at the time, it was NO plot.
“Here is an example of the involvement of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation who as the funders, are together with the WEF actively pushing for global vaccine passports. They are also the main proponents of the so-called Great Reset. It is made offical through the WHO.”
Pffff….. The WHO is NOT the WEF.
There really is nothing wrong in engineering systems for passports. In engineering systems to handle a pandemic. Nothing wrong. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Standardisation such as those mentionned in your link are, of course, important. Systems being incompatible worldwide is not something we should endorse nor enjoy.
“A question in the sideline, why this involvement and why the push?”
Answer: public health, buddy.
See ? No conspiracy…
WEF participants are more interested in selling things, people in power would not like to give up power
How is vaccine passports equat to robbing you ? It is a public health measure,
BREAKING NEWS: Live from the witch trials.
Malone has had his twitter account suspended!
https://nitter.net/RWMaloneMD
His think had become too wrong – and he has been taken away for re-education.
We eagerly await comments from Boomer High Command … Now with a significant anti-vaxxer witch removed from a major social media platform, next years crops stand a chance of growing strong.
@ Cthulhu
“Malone has had his twitter account suspended!
His think had become too wrong – and he has been taken away for re-education.
We eagerly await comments from Boomer High Command … Now with a significant anti-vaxxer witch removed from a major social media platform, next years crops stand a chance of growing strong.”
We need camps for that re-education. China knows this.
@ Cthulhu
“BREAKING NEWS: Live from the witch trials. Malone has had his twitter account suspended!”
Sybil System 1 – Cthulhu 0
Sybil system / Cthulhu 1 – F68.10 0
Why hasn’t the Dream Weapon kicked in yet? I noticed the Chinese seem to have got hold of it recently – although their techniques seem primitive.
Nighty night.
@ Cthulhu
“I noticed the Chinese seem to have got hold of it recently – although their techniques seem primitive.”
The Chinese are engaging in the most massive arms race EVER, and that includes nuclear weapons. The US is not the only target.
Check out the evidence.
India is a main target too.
Of course, nuclear weapons are primitive. Any stone age dude on the Andaman islands can split the atom, as we all know.
You think losing your Twitter account is same thing than be burned on stake ? Malone just cannot monetize his claims any more,
I’m exaggerating, for dramatic effect of course.
It’s a terrible habit. LOL
But what would be the contemporary equivalent of a witch?
Possibly – a terrorist?
The beauty of accusations of terrorism is that it dehumanizes the enemy. Terrorists are disposable – they can be exterminated without mercy or remorse, and any opinion they have is immediately invalidated, by virtue of being a terrorist.
The War on Terror is a war on an intangible concept – not designed to be won or lost, but to go on forever. Orwellian, in fact.
I’m not suggesting anyone here would be so crass as to reduce their opponents to the status of terrorists – simply because they disagreed with them.
Oh but, wait! The beauty of hyper-polarization, in practice … 😉
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmZGBhViyiA7CMigrKu9e24zxkLAPA3EPi6nGu2UTVYVG3?filename=bioterrorist.png
Such martyrs those ‘silenced’ by Twitter and FB!
What was her name — the virulently anti-muslim hate speaker — oh yea, Laura Loomer started it all. Twitter is a human right or something like that. I’m sure she’s filling up comment spaces in other people’s blogs for a living or dying of Covid.
The insane tell the world just how insane they see the world. Most will see the difference. Apparently she isn’t suffering enough to know how poisonous her views are. Nice that she seems to hold world record for being banned from social media platforms. That takes some serious and dedicated loony tuney.
https://www.salon.com/2021/09/17/just-pray-for-me-please-loomer-suffers-brutal-symptoms-after-hoping-she-would-get-covid/
@ Cthulhu
“I’m not suggesting anyone here would be so crass as to reduce their opponents to the status of terrorists – simply because they disagreed with them.”
My mom did. On my psych records. She believes (or believed) she’s my psychiatrist.
I was a terrorist because I refused her medical authority. On me.
@ 1000 Links to a Furlong
“What was her name — the virulently anti-muslim hate speaker — oh yea, Laura Loomer started it all. Twitter is a human right or something like that.”
Twitter is no human right.
But blashpemy should be.
Half of the victims of terror attacks in Europe were in France.
The recent US anti-hate-speech law proposal of, say, Ilhan Omar, goes far beyond mere anti-racism laws.
The Muslim Brotherhood should be banned in the West. Same as in Egypt.
Their behaviour should not be considered free speech, nor should terrorism be considered a religion protected by the First Amendment.
But Twitter should be under no Forced Speech obligation to reproduce just any speech.
@F68
Re the psyche records.
That sucks man. But TBF, looking at the state of you, I’m not sure I’d let you board a plane either. It’s the “fugitive Ron Jeremy” thing you had going on…
Can I interest you in a treehouse in Ted Cruz’s back yard? This would be Keystone Kops six ways to Sunday in the U.S. with, at best, no other effect whatever.
@ Cthulhu
I do not want to board a plane.
Last time I went to US, I had to tick a box “Have you ever seen a psychiatrist” ? What was I to answer ? “Yes, I likely did open my eyes in my mother’s womb… Duh !”
@ Narad
I do not see myself close to Ted Cruz’s positions on many many issues.
It’s mostly that the situation in France is getting really tense day by day on islam.
To get an idea: imagine Mexico was muslim, that the US colonised Mexico, and that the independence war of Mexico against the US was (also) motivated by some form of jihad. Then, sign deals to end colonisation of Mexico by guaranteeing free movement of mexicans between US and Mexico. Then deal with terror attacks for years, with Mexicans on US soil explicitly stating that they have a God given right to sit on the First Amendment (as many here claim they have a right to sit on the laïcité, which is the analogue of the First Amendment).
And you’d get a clearer picture. If you think Algeria = Mexico.
To my knowledge, Mexico’s national anthem does not designate the US as its eternal arch-enemy. Algeria’s national anthem does.
I’m simplifying.
We’re heading for a religious war here, and Ted Cruz would endorse it if he were on the french political spectrum.
I’m not endorsing it.
It’s not only that islam wants to crush laïcité. It’s also that laïcité, designed to crush catholicism, was also implementing a taboo which was “we do not speak of religion in France”. If that taboo is not upheld (a taboo which is antithetic to the First Amendment), laïcité can’t work, and we’re heading towards civil war. And this is precisely the situation: islam does not want to abide by the taboo that has been imposed on catholicism. Which is why the collision is inevitable. Which is why the state is shutting down mosques as in Beauvais. Because if islam manages to lift the taboo, catholicism will engulf itself in it. And we’ll have religious war: catholics vs. muslims. Secularists and atheists are currently failing at deflecting the collision course.
A French Ted Cruz would aim at collision.
I’m not.
Though we also will not manage to fully avoid a collision even with the best of intentions.
And we are blessed: we’re not the UK. We haven’t colonised Pakistan. Otherwise, the civil war would already be here. Pakistanis are indeed much more hard headed than algerians. By far.
Voices in the Pakistani parliament were indeed rather unabashedly advocating nuking Israel some 8 months or so ago.
@F68.10
“Politicians are losing power to demagogues, to their own bureaucracies, to organised crime. Big Business have transparency issues, they wield influence through lobbying, but they can be cracked down upon by any genuinely motivated political class.
So you got it wrong. The other way round.”
What is your “organized crime”?
When over the last decades have you noticed a “genuily motivated political class” in power?
@ Lucas
“What is your “organized crime”?”
Organized crime has recently become overly wild in the Netherlands.
Moroccans, from what I’ve heard.
“When over the last decades have you noticed a “genuily motivated political class” in power?”
These last decades.
I simply do not read the same stuff as you do.
@F68.10
“And then implemented in policy if vetted by politicians that you do elect.”
Finally a wise remark.
Given fair elections, where do most voters base their voice on? Propaganda or intellectual properties?
What has been the origen of propaganda in recent times? The media. And it is not the politicians that own the media. So?
Wake up man.
Btw, noticed Cthulhu’s post? Just saying.
@ Lucas
“Finally a wise remark. Given fair elections, where do most voters base their voice on? Propaganda or intellectual properties?”
Alternative to democracy are theocracies or autocraties or monarchies or totalitarianisms.
No, thank you.
If you’re not happy with the outcome, use your freedom of speech to engineer civil discussions that ultimately will have coercive power by the sheer force of their convincing power.
Free speech is kind of designed for that, you know…
Ever read Spinoza ? He’s dutch. He gave a few hints as to how to do that.
Free speech has not been designed to legitimise white noise as free speech and disinformation as arguments.
Do your best to optimise the signal to noise ratio.
Malone is already busy monetizing his status as a Twitter martyr.
He’s urging followers to join him on Substack, where he has “thousands of paid subscribers”. And there are endless possibilities in a career as public speaker, author and entrepreneur (wanna invest $$$ in my can’t-miss research into sure-fire cures?).
Other cranks have survived and prospered through social media martyrdom. Malone will be just fine. His troupe of credulous believers, not so much.
@Dangerous Bacon
“Hmm, so Lucas is now…” “Got it?”
– Who are you talking to now?
Are you mad if I call you a brownnose?
“The following is a list of conditions in which D-dimer may be elevated”
– Smash into a passing truck and you have a headache. There are a thousand causes for headaches .
“Medical Yeti is correct”
– Medical Yeti is correct when:
a. that 62% is an average in the population
b. a small blood clot will not lead to fibrinolysis, just like many of such clots cannot lead to a threshold value for testing
c. small blood clots are detectable on a scan
“D-dimer testing is most useful in…”
– Not relevant. A screw driver is most useful for driving in screws, but some lift the lid of a can with it.
“A screw driver is most useful for driving in screws, but some lift the lid of a can with it.”
On the other hand, it’s not intended for lifting off a portion of one’s skull and flinging brain-feces in lieu of reasoned arguments.
@ Dangerous Bacon (@ Lucas)
Is use my teeth instead of screwdrivers to open cans.
Evolution gave us so nice teeths… Functional. And robust.
Sounds like an embryonic conspiracy theory you’ve got going there, old bean.
Next you’ll be telling us Malone secretly paid Twitter to suspend his account – just so he could become one of the cool kids.
(I always thought The Credulous Believers were a pretty good punk band, BTW.)
No it is not that he did monetize Twitter and now monotize his martyr status.,
@F68.10
“”What is your “organized crime”?””
“Organized crime has recently become overly wild in the Netherlands.
Moroccans, from what I’ve heard.”
Incomplete.
And why has this become overly wild? Really think we cannot handle them?
Think of an alternative explanation and you have your answer.
@F68.10
“Alternative to democracy are theocracies or autocraties or monarchies or totalitarianisms.
No, thank you.”
Then why are you asking for totalitarnisms? You still have no clue, do you?
“If you’re not happy with the outcome, use your freedom of speech to engineer civil discussions that ultimately will have coercive power by the sheer force of their convincing power.”
– Uhm, saw what happened to Mallone?
Good luck with your freedom of speech.
Then again, in a politics and media indoctrinated arena free speech is useless. Know your history.
“Ever read Spinoza ? He’s dutch.”
– No one gives a damn about culture here.
“Do your best to optimise the signal to noise ratio.”
– Back to electronics again.
@ Lucas
What happened to Malone other than he got his knickers in a twist cause no one could understand a word he said? You think Bob Malone is some sort of royalty or elite that can’t be challenged or gets a pass for violating a term of service?
Lord this being silenced thing is just for the lunatics and perfect for that conspiracist mind. Bob is a smart guy, he should publish his evidence. I mean he is the inventor of mrna right?
I give a damn about culture. Thanks F68.10 for keeping it real.
Jesus Christ, you comically portray yourself as an Expert in Everything, yet your comments are barely readable. If it’s not a wall of text, it’s the routine with screwed-up quotation marks and em dashes, spacing optional.
I don’t know whether you even can fix it — the external performance merely reflects the internal pantry — but it’s just another noisome tell.
Perhaps Lucas could make a New Years resolution to help us all and learn how to use blockquote.
“”When over the last decades have you noticed a “genuily motivated political class” in power?””
“These last decades.”
In power? Feel free.
@ Lucas
“In power? Feel free.”
Mark Rutte.
@Aarno Syvänensays:
“Malone just cannot monetize his claims any more”
And now he’s rich?
It is not that. It is that this is not a case of freedom of speak, but losing a little side earner. He of course continues to make his claims, and has fot another.
@Aarno Syvänen:
“WEF participants are more interested in selling things, people in power would not like to give up power
How is vaccine passports equat to robbing you ? It is a public health measure”
I’m sorry, you missed the point. Please read back.
Find out about this silent coup d’état.
I definitely still miss it, because it nis non existent. What have vaccine passports to do with totalitarism ?
Any case,only geoverments can enforce vaccine passports. WEF does not make laws.
@F68.10
““Politicians are loosing power to the benefit of corporations that are integrating in policy-making at the national and international levels.””
Politicians are losing power to demagogues, to their own bureaucracies, to organised crime. Big Business have transparency issues, they wield influence through lobbying, but they can be cracked down upon by any genuinely motivated political class.
So you got it wrong. The other way round.
Example: international taxation agreed upon on big companies. This is what politicians can do if they want to.”
Politicians are not loosing power to demagogues or organised crime, otherwise these would simply be in power or have become relevantly more powerful . That’s not the case, unless with organised crime you mean big corporations . But that would be an exaggeration.
However, depending on your perspective, partly true. As a direct example Pfizer. And indirectly the coup détat of non chosen institutions and big corporations imposing their will on politicians.
Oh come on, how could you possible deny this?
“The WEF does not hold power. It is were some people meet. These people have competing interests. But, yes, they do meet, discuss issues, make roadmaps, toss ideas around, and because of the importance of such people as those that you see in WEF, these ideas are taken seriously. And then implemented in policy if vetted by politicians that you do elect.”
The WEF is an extremeley powerful institute meanwhile. It is not only a platform. And indeed, politicians are won by them.
Then there is this phrase “that you do elect”. As if this was a democratic proces. What – not who – the population has chosen for is not what it gets. It never was, but certainly not in today’s context of loosing freedom. And a democracy should not be about the silencing we see going on. That’s authoritarism.
“We will rob you tomorrow is what the WEF basically says. Of course in your ‘benefit’. It is tactics that work when you say what you prepare.”
“No. No. No. The WEF lays plans. But it’s not about “robbing you”. It’s about making money move around for the greater good. When China got in the WTO, the West gradually got robbed. But there were geopolitical reasons that were too important not to include China in the WTO. We now know the West was being too kind. But at the time, it was NO plot.”
Not true, the only “robbing” China did was intellectual property, the rest it did was business; don’t wine about that. And then again, this robbing wasn’t actual robbing too. We just handed over the Chinese our know-how that it has later on started using against us.
Indeed, the WEF lays plans for a ‘money move’. Away from you.
“Here is an example of the involvement of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation who as the funders, are together with the WEF actively pushing for global vaccine passports. They are also the main proponents of the so-called Great Reset. It is made offical through the WHO.”
“Pffff….. The WHO is NOT the WEF.”
It is a conglomerate in the sense that their plans are coordinated.
Do you think the push for vaccines originates from the WHO itself, as it should? Think again.
Btw, it isn’t even wise to vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic. Think the experts don’t realise this? Without a doubt they know that will this lead to the expansion of more infectious variants, and that’s what we’ve seen.
“There really is nothing wrong in engineering systems for passports. In engineering systems to handle a pandemic. Nothing wrong. Zero. Zilch. Nada.”
Vice versa, the pandemic is for the passports. They will never disappear, despite what happens to the pandemic. And what would you need a passport for in the first place when a vaccinated is just as infectious as a non-v.? BS!
So then why these passports you think?
“”A question in the sideline, why this involvement and why the push?”
Answer: public health, buddy.
See ? No conspiracy…”
Perhaps you could use my involvement too, next to the other non medics. The mass vaccination program in an attempt to put an end to the COVID-19 pandemic has been a complete failure. I can’t make that worse.
What’s actually happening is that the WHO is just one of a few partners but really (COVAX) it’s being controlled by corporations and corporate interests. In this case it is GAVI (The Vaccine Alliance formerly known as the Global Alliance for Vaccines & Immunization) and CEPI (The Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations). Both bodies, which don’t have a system of accountability.
Let’s get on with the show. And don’t complain, it is what you wish for.
@ Lucas
“Politicians are not loosing power to demagogues or organised crime…”
Of course they are. The Internet changed the rules. They are losing such power.
But no. “Corporations” are entities that are helping us usher in an age of peace and prosperity.
Corporations are Saints.
“And indirectly the coup détat of non chosen institutions and big corporations imposing their will on politicians.
Oh come on, how could you possible deny this?”
Because I haven’t seen any evidence for it. Next question ?
“The WEF is an extremeley powerful institute meanwhile. It is not only a platform.”
Evidence, buddy… the fact that there are rich people in the WEF is no evidence. They have a right to have political influence and a right to free speech just as poor people do.
“Then there is this phrase “that you do elect”. As if this was a democratic proces. What – not who – the population has chosen for is not what it gets.”
Bullshit.
People have a choice to vote for people that implement a swiss system worldwide. They simply do not. It’s their fault. In France, people fantasise day on end on the right of the right of “saviours”, “military coups”, “presidential elections”. They do not want a swiss system. They therefore won’t have any. But it’s what they wanted.
The population gets what it choses. And it reflects the level of mental confusion of the said population.
“It never was, but certainly not in today’s context of loosing freedom. And a democracy should not be about the silencing we see going on. That’s authoritarism.”
What silencing ? Do you live in Burma ? No !!! You live in the Netherlands. There is no silencing going on in the Netherlands. Get a grip. Get real. Get f-cking real. You do live in a free country !!
“Not true, the only “robbing” China did was intellectual property, the rest it did was business…”
You do not get it. There were decisions at the WTO in the early 2000s. I have a right given by God (may he not exist) to criticise the actions we took then. And yes, consensus has now become that we have been too naïve back then.
“…don’t wine about that.”
Having a thoughtful thought on thoughts we had when thinking that China would think of itself as being loved by oh-so-generous westerners, that’s not whining. We were naïve back then and we are paying a heavy price.
I’m also no big fan of the rip-off China is orchestrating in Africa.
“And then again, this robbing wasn’t actual robbing too. We just handed over the Chinese our know-how…”
I’m not talking intellectual property. You cannot hope science and technology to remain in white hands for ever. I never had any illusions there. I’m talking about something else…
“It is a conglomerate in the sense that their plans are coordinated.”
Evidence. And even so, they have a right to coordinate whatever actions they wish.
Free country.
“Do you think the push for vaccines originates from the WHO itself, as it should? Think again.”
No. I think the push for vaccines originates from the obsessions of doctors. It’s the driving factor. And we have shitloads of doctors as parlementarians around here…
You also see in the works of Laplace in the 1800s and late 18th century that the development of probabilities back in the days was also done to apply to social sciences and social situations. And vaccination. Already back then.
So, no, you’re pointing fingers at the wrong persons. Vaccines are not pushed by WEF per say.
But given that vaccines are the only way to mitigate economic downturns like the massive hits we took, it is well within the mission of people in position of economic power to devise as to how we should facilitate vaccination.
Of course it is…
This is what you do not understand. And what makes you look like a fool.
“Btw, it isn’t even wise to vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic.”
Talking point.
I also could say that it is not wise to force healthcare on unwilling patients like me and to push them into the land of dark fantasies.
But vaccines are not in any way remotely equivalent to what I endured. I have no pity.
The rest of your drivel is bullshit. Major league bullshit. Not wasting more characters and electrons replying to your petty drivel.
Even in Myanmar, the protests haven’t been silenced.
https://apnews.com/article/myanmar-yangon-aung-san-suu-kyi-2f779d3f509aec7c659e020b22255e4e
@NumberWang
“3 billion base pairs is human DNA. There are organisms out there with much, much shorter DNA. If random formation of complete DNA was the source of life then you’d only need a simple organism to boot up natural selection.”
– We observe the 3 billion basepairs in one of your cells in a specific order. Whether there were ancestors with a shorter strand is not relevant for the question how you’ve got yours. Otherwise please explain why.
“You assumed a tiny fraction of time for one ‘try’ (at getting the required order) and then assumed that all other ‘tries’ happened in series, when, in fact, they would be happening in parallel. Estimating how many parallel operations there could be is difficult, but certainly billions.”
– No, I didn’t assume that all other ‘tries’ happened in series. All can happen in parallel. That’s why all ‘tries’ are equal to all positions in the universe (atoms, why not?) times all seconds in 14 billion years times the smallest fraction of a second that we use.
That is a huge number. But it is nowhere near 4 to the power 3 billion.
“You never realised that there is as much chance of the combination you are looking for happening on the FIRST attempt as there is on the last.”
– Not sure what you mean here. Perhaps with “attempt” you mean the full DNA strand?
Anytime anywhere we have this chance of 1 out of 4. But there is so little room for manoeuvre. If A, C, G or T take the wrong position too frequently that strand can theoratically not come to life.
“Interestingly enough (to me) you could argue that those probabilities include other planets. If life is rare in the universe then it maybe that a life bearing Earth is the statistical outlier (survivor bias).”
– I included all atoms in the whole universe.
“However, I wonder if life is, in fact, inevitable. Given the requisite resources and conditions on Earth 4 billion years ago, maybe life happens by default.”
– Based on the assumptions (time and location) it is not possible that the DNA of one of your cells could have arisen without guidance, without a creator.
Not that it is relevant, but even the ‘simplest’ organism known, can not have arisen by coincidence.
I wasn’t there 4 billion years ago. Perhaps resources were there. But conditions? Before I wrote “DNA, as is true of messenger-RNA, transfer-RNA, and ribosomal-RNA, is destroyed by a variety of agents, including ultraviolet light, reactive oxygen species, alkylting agents, and water. However, without oxygen or water there can be no life.” Already that’s not good conditions.
“Whether there were ancestors with a shorter strand is not relevant for the question how you’ve got yours. Otherwise please explain why.”
It’s very relevant. Or are you changing your tune that the creation of life is guided by God? Simple bacteria or humans. All are life. Same creation for all. Once life exists, in any form, all other life is possible.
No, I didn’t assume that all other ‘tries’ happened in series. All can happen in parallel. That’s why all ‘tries’ are equal to all positions in the universe (atoms, why not?) times all seconds in 14 billion years times the smallest fraction of a second that we use”
This is just gobbledygook. You originally said that the chance of a random assembly of 3 billion base pairs matching human DNA was zero because 1/4 to the power 3 billion is such a tiny probability. The assumption there is that there is a process that can create the DNA chain to start with (your black box). Are you now saying that the actual creation of one single chain would take longer than the lifetime of the universe? Has there been some kind of language barrier going on this entire time?
“Not sure what you mean here. Perhaps with “attempt” you mean the full DNA strand”
Yes. Toss a coin ten times. Chance of ten heads in a row is 1/2 to the power ten. Quite small. However, it is entirely possible that those ten heads in a row turn up on the very first attempt since the possibility is exactly the same for every combination of ten coins.
@Lucas You are still speaking about DNA. Remember self replicating RNA. It does not have billions of base pairs, shortest RNA capable for doing this is 45 base long.
@1000 Links to a Furlongsays:
“What happened to Malone other than he got his knickers in a twist cause no one could understand a word he said? You think Bob Malone is some sort of royalty or elite that can’t be challenged or gets a pass for violating a term of service?
Lord this being silenced thing is just for the lunatics and perfect for that conspiracist mind. Bob is a smart guy, he should publish his evidence. I mean he is the inventor of mrna right?”
He is.
It wasn’t that long ago that everyone was able to say here anything he or she wanted. No matter how absurd.
Okay, that’s not entirely true. But how absurd is it when a once respected docter who knows what he’s talking about is silenced, cut off from influencing society? Did he curse or slander? Was he obscene? A terrorist? I mean come on, what the hell is going on?
No, the problem is that Robert Mallone doesn’t fit in the agenda being rolled out. And no matter what your opinion was on him, but Trump didn’t either.
The media just shut up their own president. That’s normal? Trump said “they are after you, I’m just in their way”. Ask yourself what he ment there.
I didn’t write enough here on the background of what we see happening now already.
At a certain point the grip (tracking and surveillance) from our governments on you and me will be too tight to resist them. Robert Malone I guess will realise this too. He’s not a fool the media tries to make of him. This is an intelligent man that in no way lost it.
What are you, a communist? The 1st Amendment doesn’t apply to private companies. Never has.
@ Lawrence
Not a communist. Lucas is a european.
Europeans tend to think that free speech is mandating the government to offer you a platform. i.e. coerce private companies.
It’s all the more easy to argue in France, where there are state-owned media companies, and where newspapers are subsidised and where distribution is at the mercy of the whims of communist trade unions since the end of WW2. cf. pact with De Gaulle and communists. (Less so nowadays, but old habits and more so mental habits die hard.)
Europe still has a lot of work to do to mentally and morally draw moral boundaries on such matters.
In the US, the legal dogma on the matter is clear. In France, and in other european countries, it still has many vestiges of a very-much-not-liberal past…
Hobby Lobby and Citizens United are uncomfortably close to each other for my taste.
@Lawrence:
“What are you, a communist?”
Me? Not in a million years.
I hate nearly all the ism’s, communism, socialism, authoritarism, colonialism, regimes based on militarism, Islamism and I’m not fund of capitalism.
Strange then, that the privately owned Gab social media site, which claims to be entirely pro 1st amendment, seems to constantly have to defend itself against attacks from big tech infrastructure providers and external pressure groups against it’s operation, due to the opinions expressed by some of its customers.
There seems to be a lack of symmetry in these 1st amendment rules for private companies, comrade.
@ Lucas
“Me? Not in a million years. I hate nearly all the ism’s, communism, socialism, authoritarism, colonialism, regimes based on militarism, Islamism and I’m not fund of capitalism.”
Communist identified.
More seriously: if you do not recognise some legitimacy to the autonomy of associations, corporations, and if you systematically vilify money, then you are part of what is now being called “populism” around here.
The far right and the far right pandered before WW2 to the population in that kind of terms. For different reasons. Money is evil for two reasons. On the right, money is evil because it is what undermines the authority of the King (or the State). It’s a plot by the Joos to overthrow catholic monarchies. On the left, Money = Capitalism = Exploitation, and sometimes Money = Joos. In the end, both these tendencies are hostile to the notion of a free and open society.
And Lucas is hostile to a free and open society. He masquerades it under the garb of anti-capitalism. But for anyone with a trained eye, this is a tired old game being played.
And in Western Europe, we’re still very far from having abandoned these age-old tendencies. Which are fueled by both far left and far right conspiracy theories. And they’re coming back with a revenge nowadays.
@Cthulhu You say it by yourself: If Twitter drops you, you can go to Gab. So freedom of speak still exists, even as you defined it,
@Lucas
Malone isn’t being silenced. This being silenced whine is just a crutch for violating the terms of service. He is being firmly criticized for saying goofy things and folks are not interested in engaging deeply with it after it becomes clear that his message is harmful.
I was at a bar and at 8pm it was required that everyone take off any hats they were wearing. Just the rules of the particular establishment which I had never seen anywhere else in all my years. Some left others took off their hats. They didn’t sue or pretend that they weren’t being served for some conspiratorial reason.
@Maloe is not silenced, he is kicked out from twitter. He just went to Joe Rogan, and says same things.
He definitely does not know what he is saying.
Rogan, a step up for Malone for sure! Apparently Rogan has many listeners or umm followers! There’s a soapbox on every air wave.
@NumberWang
“We observe what we observe, the DNA is there. Who cares about the proces of how it got there, as if that would change the chance of the event to happen?”
Another bad argument. You previously defined the process. Stringing beads, remember? Your statistical calculation depended on this process. Different process absolutely changes the chance of an event happening. Remember that YOUR preferred process is ‘God did it’ therefore probability = 1.”
No, it is a valid argument. This calculation of chance does not depend on stringing beads (there is no such thing as a chance of stringing beads), it depends on the combined chance of all beads in that string in that specific order. What we observe after a black box event is 3 billion basepairs. 3 Billion digits or beads if you will in a specific order. That legitimizes you of calculating the chance of those digits being there where you observe them. We don’t have to care about the actual proces that preceded. Why would we? The only thing we have to do in order to know whether or not this event of this full strand will theoratically ever happen, is to relate against the factors involved and that is time and possible locations. There aren’t any other factors.
In case the proces is guided of course such calculations make no sense. I call this God.
Years ago I had the same discussion with a promovated Physician. In his book about Quantum Physics he described an atheistic point of view. In our discussion he said that he wasn’t denying that God exists. But he ended saying that there must be something we don’t know. That is the end of a discussion of course, but he just had no argument. Meanwhile we know as a fact there is no such thing as junk DNA. That is the end of abiogenesis. Not the end of evolution, that’s another chapter.
Ah yes, the “nobody wins the lottery” argument.
If your probability calculation says that the world you see is impossible, and other people say that your probability calculation is wrong, you should try considering that you might, just might, be the one who is wrong.
That’s a keeper.
Lucas:
So there was no time on earth when there was no life? Not even during the Hadean Eon?
Number of base pairs is imporant. Combination of 45 base pairs is much more probable than billion. Do the calculation yourself.,
Bases of short replicating RNA molecule did not form by random change, either. Remember autoccatalysis ? Chemical reaction are not random combinations of molecules, in any case
@Narad:
“Yah. The problem here is that your “knowledge” of “the plan” would have had your guess of the market bottom too early. Any idiot can buy into a crash, with no need for decoding imaginary machinations.”
– By no freaking means! Timing a market correction is most, most complicated for any speculator. If you’re so sure of a downfall best is to just sell your shares if you have them and wait for that correction. Or buy some put options as an insurance. But betting against the index with tons in put options definately is no sinecure. You better know what is going on not to be overwhelmed by it in the first place, let alone to be able to time it. If whithin that short time frame of resulting duration this crash delays or is of no real meaning, your investment is gone.
The bottoming out once the crash started would not take long, simply because the FED would come to the rescue, we knew that because that’s what the FED does and certainly had to do. Timing this depends a bit on intuition, but the faster a crash, the sooner the intervention. I lived through many of those crises meanwhile. Once the FED stepped in we immediatly bought shares, especially oil and somewhat later oil contracts. 2020 Was the best year ever and the ‘elite’ profited from it over the back of everyone else.
We knew the media would propagandise the situation from Wuhan onwards and btw, if they had not, there wouldn’t have been this crash at all. Not at that moment anyway. Later probably, as it was time for a correction; markets were already under pressure, so we knew it would be a substantial crash.
@thsgrnsays:
“Ah yes, the “nobody wins the lottery” argument. If your probability calculation says that the world you see is impossible, and other people say that your probability calculation is wrong, you should try considering that you might, just might, be the one who is wrong.”
Not really. You cannot deny the world as impossible, unless from a weird philosopher’s standpoint.
Unless someone proves me otherwise, it is ‘guidance’ that won the lottery.
The probability calcution itself isn’t wrong, it is about a basic chance with refutation. The premises may not be accurate perhaps. I just wouldn’t know why, though.
I know you don’t know why your argument is wrong, since you wouldn’t make it if you understood that.
After all, your argument claims that humans don’t exist, because the probability of any given human’s genome existing is astronomically high – after all, we each have however many billions of base pairs, in a unique sequence, etc etc etc. There’s nothing in your argument that distinguishes between a given individual modern human and the universal common ancestor – after all, you reject the idea that we can say that the UCA is more likely than a human because it’s simpler, because humans exist and are more complex, so we must go for that full complexity at once.
@ thgsrn
“I know you don’t know why your argument is wrong, since you wouldn’t make it if you understood that.”
Yeah. We already told Lucas about the ribosome.
He’s never treating the argument. He’s more fond of his infinite loop of nonsense.
He could engage with the argument of the ribosome.
He has chosen not to.
He loses.
And he doesn’t know he lost.
But he did.
I was more frustrated by the non-existent framing of his theory. I mean, yes, random assemblage of a particular 3 billion base pair combination is mindbogglingly unlikely in an experiment but there was no attempt to seriously address how the timeline changes with billions of simultaneous experiments, or that you do not have to cycle through ALL of the possible combinations before reaching the one you want, or that human DNA isn’t the theorised first form of life or that there are plenty of steps leading up to the theorised first form of life. Just a stubborn mumble about how he’d already accounted for all the atoms and all the time in the universe so nothing else matters.
Obviously, the real argument against his statistics is that abiogenesis theories do not rely on an attempt to create human DNA from nothing. But, if you are going to present an argument, at least dot the ‘i’s, cross the ‘t’s and show some of the working.
Can someone please provide the risk/benefits Analysis data base? I cannot find one. And where do we go to see the government monthly update on how the all the vaccines are doing? It’s disturbing that I see commercial screaming at me “get the shot” and no disclaimer over the risk like you see with other drugs. Local doctors cannot tell me if we are receiving the FDA approved comirity here in the states now.
Singapore government is doing this:
https://www.moh.gov.sg/
Vaccines are same.
[…] who has falsely claimed credit for inventing mRNA vaccines. That’s led him down a path of straight-up vaccine denialism, enough to get him suspended from Twitter this past […]
I keep quoting and quoting your article, which I found on Ron Unz’ news-links site a few weeks ago. Thanks a lot! – Your article is very insightful indeed. Dr. Malone is a character of sorts and now, having reached the superstar status of Joe-Rogan-fame, it is even more important than before to understand, what he says. – So: Thanks. – I often times mentioned, when I quoted your Malone-article, just how well it is written- it is not only very insightful, but on top of that it was a pleasure to read it! – So: Thanks again, Orac!
My goodness! Here is another classic example of a paid-for would-be journalist, writing off real science for his masters. I see you included Yeadon in there. Left out Mullis, Marek, Bhakdi and 60 000 European doctors and scientist who also want to stop this genocide. Not sure if Orwell would be laughing his butt off or turning in his grave with this gallant push. Keep up the double-speak and keep selling “the science” that is anything but. We’ll all go on watching the footballers die on television and you can keep telling us that it’s global warming/ice-age/climate change/asteroids/normal – and you call Malone a conspiracy theorist. Shame on you, Sellout!
Who are those 60000 Europeans ? Your Americans are much fewer, and well known.
Perhaps you try an argument ? Sell out would tell obvious lies,..
@ Steve
“…this genocide.”
Nope.
“60 000 European doctors and scientist who also want to stop this genocide.”
I hope that’s a different 60,000 from the doctors who signed the Great Barrington Declaration, which you obviously haven’t read. Unless you are equating lockdown with genocide? If so, then I guess sending a naughty kid to their room must be GBH at least.
Yes, we now officially call Malone a conspiracy theorist for promoting unquantified doom! I bet Orwell would be congratulating you on your fake outrage of made up reality.
BTW IR believes you are fat and lazy. You physician just hasn’t said this to you.
It was shameful when the asteroid struck in the middle of the MLS championship game killing all the footballers, and they just went to commercial urging us to get vaccinated.
When will we ever learn?
Cool! What channel is that on?
“60 000 European doctors and scientist…want to stop this genocide.”
If one accepts that rather generous figure for how many European doctors (of what?) and scientists are anti-Covid-19 vaccination, and balances it against a conservative estimate of the total number of physicians and scientists (counting only full-time researchers) in Europe (8.5 million), we see that 0.7% of them would presumably agree with Malone* and his misinformation about the vaccines. That’s fewer than 1 in 100, for those of you keeping score at home.
So why aren’t you concerned with what the 99%+ think?
TBruce: “What channel is that on?”
ESPN ME (Mass Extinction). It’s a premium channel, but well worth it.
*Malone got a shout-out today on Natural News, which noted his restraint in not (at least publicly) making obvious deductions about the intent of official Covid-19 policies, which of course is mass depopulation.
Malone is rapidly disappearing down the Godwin rabbit hole.
That Indiana insurance company CEO’s comments about a 40% increase in mortality among a large demographic group including younger people? That can’t be due to Covid-19 or anything other than…the mRNA vaccines! From Malone’s Substack blog:
“It is starting to look to me like the largest experiment on human beings in recorded history has failed. And, if this rather dry report from a senior Indiana life insurance executive holds true, then Reiner Fuellmich’s “Crimes against Humanity” push for convening new Nuremberg trials starts to look a lot less quixotic and a lot more prophetic.”
Of course, Malone’s Mad Prophet In The Wilderness act will go unrecorded, because he’s been censored.
Here is the actual video with the comments. He pretty clearly is talking about the harms of the pandemic, and he ends by saying counties with low vaccines rates are considered to have risk factors and their premiums are going up. Exactly the opposite of what these people are trying to turn this into.
https://twitter.com/Mr_Mackei/status/1478008259474862081
“Pro-vaccine shill Dr. David Gorski, linked to cancer fraudster, in cahoots with pharma to develop lucrative autism drug”
https://unmaskingorac.blogspot.com/2016/07/pro-vaccine-shill-dr-david-gorski.html
That old lie? Seriously, dude. Mike Adams is the source of that lie. Mike Adams!
A lie that was discussed elsewhere and debunked.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/behold-my-power-quacks-and-despair/
[…] Dr. Robert Malone Goes Full Anti-Vaccine Conspiracist […]
[…] Dr. Robert Malone Goes Full Anti-Vaccine Conspiracist […]
[…] Dr. Robert Malone Goes Full Anti-Vaccine Conspiracist […]
How many people in the uk have died over the last 2 years from covid 19 that are under 60 and have no commodities?
Does that number of deaths warrant the injection of these new technology serums into the under 60 without commodities given they have not been tested for 5 to 10 years effects?
I think virtually all Britons have some commodities. Maybe not household stashes of oil, rubber and lumber, but surely at least some kippers and Stilton cheese.
Oh wait, you mean co-morbidities?
The U.K. office of health statistics reported that 542 residents of England and Wales under the age of 60 with no pre-existing health conditions* died of Covid-19, compared to about 4,000 over 60 with no such conditions. Of course that was only for the period between April 1 and December 31, 2020, so the updated numbers are considerably higher. And that doesn’t count the many made seriously ill, or the estimated 1.3 million Britons with long Covid.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsofthoseunder60fromcovid19only
But I fancy those figures won’t matter to people who object to the Spike Protein Experimental Technology Serums of Death.
*not sure if obesity is considered a pre-existing condition, or just how many Britons are at deserved peril because they’ve over-indulged in kippers and Stilton cheese. Not to mention jellied eels and black pudding.
Does sliced Red Leicester and some Mattessons sausage count? I’m starting to feel that I’m lacking in class.
Comorbidities also includes people with asthma or diabetes who could live for decades if COVID-19 hadn’t killed them.
I don’t know if the “it’s okay that people die if they’re over 60, or fat, or have diabetes” people really mean what they’re saying or just haven’t thought it through. Among other things, they can develop a medical condition, and even if they don’t, unless you’re unlucky enough to die from something else, you will eventually be over 60.
Ha ha, you’ll are very sharp and witty but failed to answer the spirit of the question whilst focusing on the spelling literals.
Now, throw the pedantry to one side, breathe and answer.
Under 60 with no comorbidities over 2 years is below 2000 people, 1000 per annum, or 1000 out of 50,000,000.
Given the new mrna has not been medium 2 to 5 years or long 10+ years tested, how do you present a compelling argument for taking the injections. Im thinking, pfizer* or moderna?
*
Please note before you answer a US court has ruled test data will be with us within 8 months.
Im concerned with the principal risk groups, do you not think the overwhelming amount of resources should be focused on the most needful?
Or werre more numbers of elderly warranted dying alone in nursing homes without treatment whilst the overwhelmed nhs danced and the tories awarded contracts to friends?
Along with conspiracy theorist s’ efficacious PCR tests and cloth masks markets?
Lastly, more people, according to the yellow card reports, have died post the injections and in a shorter time than covid in the under 60s without comorbidities.
But please present those stunningly compelling arguments for the jab, but with false and fear.
@Stanford “Medium” 2 to 5 years tested ? Why do you think that problems would appear during this time period ?
You did not answer the question: How many deaths are acceptable ? Of course, you must calculate deaths per COVID cases, not per entire population.
If only risk groups were vaccinated, COVID would have raged among unvaccinated, and new variants would have popped up. Which of course happened any case, but it would have been worse.
Feel free to tell us exactly (give us a number) how many people have to die before you get concerned.
We’ll wait.
Red Leicester, why not.
Im concerned with the principal risk groups, do you not think the overwhelming amount of resources should be focused on the most needful?
Or werre more numbers of elderly warranted dying alone in nursing homes without treatment whilst the overwhelmed nhs danced and the tories awarded contracts to friends?
Along with conspiracy theorist s’ efficacious PCR tests and cloth masks markets?
Lastly, more people, according to the yellow card reports, have died post the injections and in a shorter time than covid in the under 60s without comorbidities.
But please present those stunningly compelling arguments for the jab, but with false and fear.
Remember, a yellow card has been issued for each one of those thousands of footballers who have dropped dead on the field of Covid vaccinemia, while the NHS blames climate change.
Thank goodness brave iconoclasts like Dr. Malone are here to help Substack subscribers see through such shameful schemes.
@StanfordThere are COVID treaments, of course:
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/emergency-preparedness-drugs/coronavirus-covid-19-drugs
It was not just vaccines
@Stanford
Yellow card report site is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting
Your number of deaths caused by vaccines is wromg.
It’s obvious that there is a concerted effort from big tech and big government to smear Dr Malone while continuing to push a false narrative around Covid. The manipulation of humanity gets more and more aggressive with each incident. It seems that we have a collective trauma, get a break for a while and then another big trauma. It’s mind-boggling how many people can’t truly think for themselves and adhere so strongly to a narrative. I have the highest respect for Dr Malone and his efforts to speak out with sensible, sound information. Sadly, I see why it is so easy to manipulate humans as most choose to believe what reinforces previous conditioning.
You’re right that there’s a concentrated effort to push a false narrative about COVID, but it’s actually not big government and big tech that’s promoting the false narrative. It’s quacks like Dr. Malone.
“as most choose to believe what reinforces previous conditioning”
We can tell.
[…] this guy is, he really, really likes Dr. Robert Malone, the “inventor of mRNA vaccines” conspiracy crank. (Subscription: […]
@NumberWang, @F68.10, @thsgrn, @Aarno Syvänen
Sorry for the late reply; new year brought some work. But here you go.
“Once life exists, in any form, all other life is possible.”
– Proof this statement. As for a start, natural selection or mutation are ‘horizontal’ processes that basically do not add nucleobases to the DNA strand. ‘Microevolution’ – a deceiving term is as it suggests a small-scale example of macroevolution – occurs within the species level due to mutations, gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection. The misinformation lies in concealing the fact that select, adapted populations are genetically poorer (fewer alleles) than the unselected natural populations from which they arose. Change can also occur due to accidental loss of alleles (genetic drift) in small isolated populations. Both amount to decline in genetic information. Macroevolution requires its increase.
A useful mutation (e.g. an orange without seeds) is not the equivalent of a positive mutation. There are very many examples of negative and neutral mutations, but none I know of which could be presented as a documented example of a positive one.
‘Microevolution’ has never shown to lead to new species. Apparently nature prohibits this.
“that you do not have to cycle through ALL of the possible combinations before reaching the one you want”
– This is not how calculation of chance works; in science we agree that an event with a chance of 1 at 10^200 will never happen, not at any moment, that is.
Our problem remains of how you got your 3 billion digits in that specific order. You commented that “there was no attempt to seriously address how the timeline changes with billions of simultaneous experiments”. Doesn’t this just fit in “time and possible locations”? With as possible locations your “billions of simultaneous experiments” at any given time? To quote Paul Davies, the fifth miracle page 53: “There are indeed a lot of stars—at least ten billion in the observable universe. But this number, gigantic as it may appear to us, is nevertheless trivially small compared with the gigantic odds against the random assembly of even a single protein molecule.”
“… the real argument against his statistics is that abiogenesis theories do not rely on an attempt to create human DNA from nothing.”
“…that human DNA isn’t the theorised first form of life or that there are plenty of steps leading up to the theorised first form of life.”
– I never said it theoratically wasn’t. One of the aspects that have to be explained in regards to the origin of life is the origin of the enormous amounts of data necessary from the set go. The smallest free-living bacteria, the representative for the minimal complexity which would have been the threshold of transition from non-life to life (below that threshold, self-replicating free-living cells could not be alive) requires 1,3 million nucleotides. Chance to get a functional instructional complex codified sequence of nucleotides of that magnitude, randomly on early earth is over 10^700,000 ( there are 10^80 atoms in the universe). That is far beyond what is possible. Instructions, complex codified specifications, INFORMATION. Algorithms encoded in genetic and epigenetic languages and communication channels and networks. Genes, and epigenetic signaling through various signaling networks provide cues and instruct molecules and macromolecule complexes, and scaffold networks interpret and react in a variety of ways upon decoding and data processing of those instructions. Since signaling pathways work synergetically integrated with a complex short and long-range cross-talk between intracellular macromolecules, these instructions could not be the result of a random gradual increase of information. These information networks only operate and work in an integrated fashion, and had to be fully set up right from the beginning. Conveying codes, a system of rules to convert information, such as letters and words, into another form, and translation ciphers of one language to another are always sourced back to intelligent set-up. What we see in biochemistry is complex instructional codified information being stored through the genetic code (codons) in a storage medium (DNA), encoded ( DNA polymerase), sent (mRNA), and decoded ( Ribosome). Life is an all or nothing business. The stories of protocells and a gradual emergence of those by chemical evolution are pseudo-science.
“He could engage with the argument of the ribosome.”
– The ribosome or the precursor to the RNA ribose-phosphate?
Anyway, let’s suppose that a self-replicating RNA molecule would appear miraculously on the early earth. That does not explain the origin of the information to make all life essential parts in the cell. It is as to go just from a hard drive storage device to a self-replicating factory with the ability of self-replication of the entire factory once ready, to respond to changing environmental demands and regulate its metabolic pathways, regulate and coordinate all cellular processes, such as molecule and building block biosynthesis according to the cells demands, depending on growth, and other factors.
The ability of uptake of nutrients, to be structured, internally compartmentalized and organized, being able to check replication errors and minimize them, react to stimuli and changing environments. That is, the ability to adapt to the environment is a must right from the beginning.
If just one single protein or enzyme – of many – is missing, no life. If topoisomerase II or helicase are missing – no replication – no perpetuation of life.
What’s the use of just wishful thinking? You may want to jump over the Empire State Building, the fact remains that the obstacle is too high, no matter how long you try.
The software/hardware in the cell, that is DNA, mRNA, RNA polymerase, tRNA’s, the ribosome, tRNA Synthetases, protein chaperones etc, AND the software, that is the genetic code and translation mechanism, had to emerge fully setup and TOGETHER, since one would have had no use without the other.
That places an atheist more in the category of a blind believer, I’d call him religious.
Senior Investigator at the National Center for Biotechnology Information, Eugene V. Koonin, a recognized expert in the field of evolutionary and computational biology,says in ‘The Logic of Chance’:
” Despite many interesting results to its credit, when judged by the straightforward criterion of reaching (or even approaching) the ultimate goal, the origin of life field is a failure—we still do not have even a plausible coherent model, let alone a validated scenario, for the emergence of life on Earth.
Certainly, this is due not to a lack of experimental and theoretical effort, but to the extraordinary intrinsic difficulty and complexity of the problem. A succession of exceedingly unlikely steps is essential for the origin of life, from the synthesis and accumulation of nucleotides to the origin of translation; through the multiplication of probabilities, these make the final outcome seem like a miracle.
The difficulties remain formidable. For all the effort, we do not currently have coherent and plausible models for the path from simple organic molecules to the first life forms. Most damningly, the powerful mechanisms of biological evolution were not available for all the stages preceding the emergence of replicator systems. Given all these major difficulties, it appears prudent to seriously consider radical alternatives for the origin of life. ”
To quote Graham Cairns-Smith: Chemistry and the Missing Era of Evolution
The “RNA world” idea requires a geochemically implausible supply of RNA monomers.
https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18260066
So much is required for proteins. Instructional/specified complex information is required to get the right amino acid sequence which is essential to get the functionality in a vast sequence space ( amongst trillions of possible sequences, rare are the ones that provide function ) of random chemical reactions to setup amino-acid polypeptide chains to produce functional proteins, a minimal proteome on early earth external to cellular biosynthesis: 1 in 10^350.000. That’s virtually the same as 0%. There are 10^80 atoms in the universe. Pure pseudo-scientific nonsense.
If we sum up the total number of amino acids for a minimal cell, there would have to be about 400 proteins x average 400 amino acids = 160.000 amino acids, which would have to be bonded in the right sequence, choosing for each position amongst 20 different amino acids, and selecting only the left-handed, while sorting out the right-handed ones. That means each position would have to be selected correctly from 40 variants! That is 1 right selection out of 40^160.000 possibilities or 10^350.000! Obviously, a gigantic number far above any realistic probability to occur by unguided events. Even a trillion universes, each hosting a trillion planets, and each shuffling a trillion times in a trillionth of a second, continuously for a trillion years, would not be enough. Such astronomically unimaginably gigantic odds are in the realm of the utmost extremely impossible. Iow: blind foundationless fairytale beliefism.
As James Tour – Professor of Chemistry, Rice University (Synthetic chemist and among the top ten most cited chemists in the world) – stipulates it: “There is collective cluelessness…those who say this is well worked out, they know nothing, nothing about chemical synthesis…Those who think that scientists understand the details of life’s origin are wholly uninformed. Nobody understands…when will the scientific community confess to the world that they are clueless on life’s origin, that the emperor has no clothes?” (2016)
You are either a liar or an ignoramus convinced he is a genius.
Either way, there is no point continuing a conversation with you when you repeat such known trivially disproven falsehoods.
“As for a start, natural selection or mutation are ‘horizontal’ processes that basically do not add nucleobases to the DNA strand. ‘Microevolution’ – a deceiving term is as it suggests a small-scale example of macroevolution – occurs within the species level due to mutations, gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection. The misinformation lies in concealing the fact that select, adapted populations are genetically poorer (fewer alleles) than the unselected natural populations from which they arose.”
This is untrue. It is so trivially untrue, so blatantly untrue, that I conclude you are most likely a knowing liar. Mutations, of course, inherently increase the diversity of the population. Selection, yes, decreases it – when it doesn’t cause bifurcation – but mutations increase it, and are the grist upon which selection acts.
We have experimentally observed such things. SARS-nCOV-2019, for one example of relevance to this thread, has significantly increased its genetic diversity since it first emerged.
I see no point in further engagement with Lucas at this point, but…well, I think it was worth at least pointing out why I am so declaring him a dishonest liar.
Mutations does not mean point mutations as you seem to believe. One of mutation types is gene duplication, which obviously add base pairs. Generally types of mutations are substitution, addition and deletion. Only the first one keeps number of base pairs intact.
You have been told multiple times about self replicating RNA, It is not a minimal cell, 45 base pairs is smallest amount required, It did not appear because of random combinations either, but because of autocatalysis. If you want to argue against a theory argue against it as it really is,
@prl:
“”That is the end of abiogenesis.””
“So there was no time on earth when there was no life? Not even during the Hadean Eon?”
The end of the theory that is.
During Hadean Eon only fried proteins..
OK, so if there was a time when there was no life, and now we have life, then somehow we went from one state to the other. That’s abiogenesis. You clearly don’t like any of the scientific theories of abiogenesis, so what is your preferred theory of abiogenesis?
@thsgrn
“This is untrue. It is so trivially untrue, so blatantly untrue, that I conclude you are most likely a knowing liar.”
– “Untrue” (x 3), “a liar” (x 2). Such strong and repeated expressions generally reflect anger, even hate. You might ask yourself why that is.
“I see no point in further engagement with Lucas at this point, but…well, I think it was worth at least pointing out why I am so declaring him a dishonest liar.”
– A “dishonest liar”, as if there was such thing as an honest liar. Take a brake man. Am I perhaps kicking against some sacred houses of yours? Not wanting to hear anything that goes against your bubble of lies? Pathetic.
Me, a liar? Why would I lie? Unlike so many scientist bringing their audience a sponsored narrative, I’m not affiliated whatsoever.
Do you realize that calling me a liar is calling the scientist that I quote liars. Scientists like:
– Paul Davies: English physicist, writer and broadcaster, a professor in Arizona State University and Director of BEYOND: Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science. He is affiliated with the Institute for Quantum Studies in Chapman University in California. He previously held academic appointments in the University of Cambridge, University College London, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, University of Adelaide and Macquarie University. His research interests are in the fields of cosmology, quantum field theory, and astrobiology.
– Eugene V. Koonin, senior Investigator at the National Center for Biotechnology Information , a recognized expert in the field of evolutionary and computational biology.
– Graham Cairns-Smith: an organic chemist and molecular biologist at the University of Glasgow.
– James Tour: Professor of Chemistry, Rice University (Synthetic chemist and among the top ten most cited chemists in the world).
– Chemist Wilhelm Huck, professor at Radboud University Nijmegen.
I prefer you had better come up with some true arguements.
“This is untrue. It is so trivially untrue, so blatantly untrue, that I conclude you are most likely a knowing liar. “
– Oh please, I’m getting tired of your simplistic propaganda. You really are at an infant stage on the subject. I would say contact Professor Maciej Giertych as you are arrogantly doubting him. Here are the credentials you’ll find at Wiki: M.A.(Oxford), Ph.D.(Toronto), D.Sc.(Poznan), head of the Genetics Department of the Polish Academy of Sciences at the Institute of Dendrology in Kornik, Poland. He is on the editorial board of two international periodicals: Silvae Genetics, published in Germany, and Annales ses sciences forestieres published in France. He is a member of the Polish Academy of Sciences Committee on Forest Sciences, and on the Forestry Council in the Ministry of Environmental Protection, Natural Resources and Forestry. He is the author of about 150 scientific papers in Polish and international periodicals.
Objectivity may kick in when you get rid of that toxic mix of arrogance and brain washing of yours.
None of these eminent scientists do know what abiuogenesis mesn, if you cite them properly. No one claims that a full original cell appeared from nothing as a result of random combinations.
These mRNA vaccinations are so safe that I wonder why I now and then meet people pointing me in the opposite direction.
Not that I meet that many people, I try to avoid that. And not that I start topics like vaccines, but sometimes you just can’t help that.
The day before yesterday I bought a kg of Nigella seed. The young lady (from Maroc I’m pretty sure) that helped me said she could remember that I was her first client when buying the same seed last time. This time she asked me what I use this for. So I explained that this is part of my protection against getting severely ill of Covid. She then told me she got Covid about a year ago, but didn’t want to get jabbed. As a reply to my question for her motivation she replied that her uncle got blind at one eye soon after his jab and another member of her family started feeling more and more miserable each day after his jab and finally died as a result.
Another example today during a visit to the optician. The guy that assisted me began talking on the subject as well and said that his mother got a tia whithin a couple of days after her booster.
The same thing I guess happened to my insurance agent some while ago after his booster. I noticed during our Zoom session back then that he had a bit of the speach of someone that had a stroke. That wasn’t too long after his booster. He ended up at Neurology in the hospital.
It may have nothing to do with his jab, but it is of importance to notice such incidents. A few posts back I reported on some similar incidents from earlier date.
Am I the only one bumping into people with experiences like this?
Is your middle name Jonah?
Yes.
Everyone at my work is vaccinated (most with one of the two mRNA vaccines). Worst complaint: “I felt cruddy for two days and my shoulder hurts”.
All of my friends are vaccinated. Same response.
All of my relatives who are old enough are vaccinated. Same response.
This is why we don’t rely on things like “remembering things about the people we happen to talk to” to find issues with medicine. That’s what all the big trials and huge post-marketing surveillance and all the other databases are for.
I thought the point of nigella seeds is that they taste nice?
Blind in one eye? Oh ffs. I grew a third testicle! I also now bench 600#. A friend of mine can fly after the shot!
@MedicalYeti
“Blind in one eye? Oh ffs. I grew a third testicle! I also now bench 600#. A friend of mine can fly after the shot!”
Your professional comment is highly appreciated.
You think she made that up?
Wishing you the next French Revolution.
Yeah. I’m unprofessional. Bring that nonsense into my clinic or ER-I’ll tell you the same thing, only professionally: “You are full of it.” I really wish we were having this convo face to face.
The problem with you people is you consistently get away with hyperbole in other forums and spaces. I won’t let it pass. No one went blind on one eye because of the covid vaccine. PERIOD. Shame on you for trying to float that bs by burying it in a bunch of other drivel.
If you want to talk about professionalism and gentlemanly behavior try displaying some first and being honest in your conduct and communication.
@JustaTech
“This is why we don’t rely on things like “remembering things about the people we happen to talk to” to find issues with medicine. That’s what all the big trials and huge post-marketing surveillance and all the other databases are for.”
Not a smart reply. Statistics tell you that small scale events are likely to occur on a large scale.
So when official statistics seem to be useless, the next thing you do is simply see what is going on around you. That’s indeed people “we happen to talk to”. The discrepancy between that outcome and your databases is noteworthy. And that’s the reason I’m asking for your experiences.
Have you ever verified the results of your post-marketing surveillance (marketing?) and those ‘other databases’?
“Post-marketing” means “after release to the market”, ie, when a product becomes available to people beyond the clinical trials.
They’re not “my” surveillance – I don’t work for any of the COVID vaccine manufacturers.
And the whole point of the first part of my comment was to say that “what is going on around me” does match with the official statistics. I’m not saying that your experience is not true. I am saying that both of our experiences are too limited to give the whole picture, and that is what the giant databases are for. They are for finding the rare things and identifying what is a pattern and what is coincidence.
Because coincidences happen. That’s why probability and statistics are used: to see what is a real pattern and what is the randomness of life.
@prl:
“OK, so if there was a time when there was no life, and now we have life, then somehow we went from one state to the other. That’s abiogenesis. You clearly don’t like any of the scientific theories of abiogenesis, so what is your preferred theory of abiogenesis?”
Instead of what we ‘like’ we should accept what is possible.
Eugene Koonin stated: “A succession of exceedingly unlikely steps is essential for the origin of life, from the synthesis and accumulation of nucleotides to the origin of translation; through the multiplication of probabilities, these make the final outcome seem almost like a miracle. The difficulties remain formidable. For all the effort, we do not currently have coherent and plausible models for the path from simple organic molecules to the first life forms. Most damningly, the powerful mechanisms of biological evolution were not available for all the stages preceding the emergence of replicator systems. Given all these major difficulties, it appears prudent to seriously consider radical alternatives for the origin of life.”
These ‘radical alternatives’ evidently come down to the sole alternative he ment: God exists; there was no such thing as abiogenesis.
@Lucas You are now citing authority. He did mention RNA world, and autocatalysis of self replicating RNA. He try to refute something nobody is actually claiming
@Monica
“He is just for safe vaccines and not for how fast they produced this one before trials were done.”
Really how fast were these vaccines produced?
You know, we could dick around for years till we prove the vaccines are safe enough for your approval. Meanwhile, a few million more people will die of covid. But, heck, gotta respect your irrational fears, don’t we?
@JustaTech
I happen to be specialized in the fields of marketing and statistics. Now don’t I feel privileged with your wise lessons.
“Post-marketing” means “after release to the market”, ie, when a product becomes available to people beyond the clinical trials.
‘Post-marketing surveillance programs’… isn’t that an indication for a stinking emphasis on making money instead of health?
‘Vaccine-marketing-monitoring’ versus ‘health issue-vaccine-monitoring’? Nasty business with marketing in the equation! Vaxxing infants is the equivalent of market expansion, right? Again a monstrous example of corporate takeover of Global Governance while you are sleeping.
“They’re not “my” surveillance”
No, but you brought them up and hide behind them.
And may I remind you that you haven’t answered my question. I’ll repeat it for you: “Have you ever verified the results of your post-marketing surveillance and those ‘other databases’?” How did you verify?
I am very much interested in your detailed answer. And I think others too.
“I’m not saying that your experience is not true. I am saying that both of our experiences are too limited to give the whole picture, and that is what the giant databases are for. They are for finding the rare things and identifying what is a pattern and what is coincidence.
Because coincidences happen. That’s why probability and statistics are used: to see what is a real pattern and what is the randomness of life.”
Here you go wrong as you’re ignoring statistics / calculation of chance. In my post I mentioned four persons with severe side effects. In a previous post I mentioned five: one with a double pulmonary embolism, one dead and one with Steven Johnson syndrome (at least that is my interpratation when I hear about the skin dropping off), two extremely tired (one not being able to take the stairs to the third floor without taking a rest and having a neurological side effect she notices in one of her legs).
That is nine persons. Too limited to give the whole picture indeed, but hey, I never said it wasn’t.
However, it is statistically hardly possible that this many persons having severe side effects would only occur in my area without underlying explanation. Assuming the side effects are indeed vaccination related, it could be that… I am lying, the people telling me their experiences are liyng or your databases lie.
Of course we may discuss the supposed relation with the vaccines. But apart from that, certainly I’m not lying nor have I any reason to believe those people are. That means with a high percentage of certainty that your databases are falling short severely!
So I repeat myself and invite you to defend the reliability and completeness of the databases you rely on. I think they’re dead and dead wrong as a complete picture sketch.
“and one with Steven Johnson syndrome (at least that is my interpratation when I hear about the skin dropping off)”
It sounds like some in your orbit may be getting over prescribed Ziprasidone (Geodon). Nasty stuff. They should probably do that less but given your symptoms they won’t. Yall should move elsewhere less punative for smoking meth and thinking things a tad off.
You really do not know anything about statistics if you think that five persons is a great enough sample. Second thing is selection bias, You speak jusy with antivaxxers, do you not ?
Post marketing surveillance is explained here:
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/surveillance/postmarketing-surveillance-programs
It nothing to do with marketing.
@ Lucas:
“‘Post-marketing surveillance programs’… isn’t that an indication for a stinking emphasis on making money instead of health?”
No.
You literally quoted me and then completely ignored what I said. “Post-marketing surveillance” is the surveillance done after the end of the clinical trials, when the treatment is available to the general public. It is done for all vaccines. As far as I know (and I am not an expert in pharmacovigilance) this type of surveillance is normal on most newly approved treatments.
It has absolutely nothing to do with “marketing” in the “advertising and selling” sense, and as a marketing professional you should be well aware that a single word can have different meanings.
“Have you ever verified the results of your post-marketing surveillance and those ‘other databases’?”
No. I do not have the credentials or the research program needed to access those databases. I don’t do vaccine research. I have a public health degree (which is how I know about these databases) but I don’t do vaccine research so I can’t access those databases because they contain private health information that is not (and should never) be released to the general public.
As a side note: do you have any idea of the time required to “verify” every single entry in all of those databases? There is a reason that whole departments work on these projects – they are huge.
“statistically hardly possible that this many persons having severe side effects would only occur in my area without underlying explanation. Assuming the side effects are indeed vaccination related, it could be that… I am lying, the people telling me their experiences are liyng or your databases lie.”
Nope. I have no idea who you are or where you live. I know nothing about the underlying medical conditions of the people in your region. For all I know you live next to a clinic that treats people with serious autoimmune disorders. Or unusual genetic disorders.
I also don’t know how many people you talked to who had no reaction to their COVID vaccination. Or whose reaction was in line with what we were told to expect (injection site soreness, fever, aches, tiredness).
I (and you) also don’t know how many of these people may or may not have had COVID. If a person caught COVID the day before their vaccination they would likely blame their COVID symptoms on the vaccine, even if that was not correct.
Again: I am not saying that these people are lying. I am saying that you’re not seeing the whole picture.
@MedicalYeti
“”Blind in one eye? Oh ffs. I grew a third testicle! I also now bench 600#. A friend of mine can fly after the shot!” Your professional comment is highly appreciated. You think she made that up? Wishing you the next French Revolution.””
“Yeah. I’m unprofessional. Bring that nonsense into my clinic or ER-I’ll tell you the same thing, only professionally: “You are full of it.” I really wish we were having this convo face to face.
The problem with you people is you consistently get away with hyperbole in other forums and spaces. I won’t let it pass. No one went blind on one eye because of the covid vaccine. PERIOD. Shame on you for trying to float that bs by burying it in a bunch of other drivel.
If you want to talk about professionalism and gentlemanly behavior try displaying some first and being honest in your conduct and communication.”
Indeed, and your comment was beyond unprofessional: disrespectful. It’s you who should learn “to talk gentlemanly”.
Now stop your writing of useless words like “hyperbole in other forums and spaces”, it’s not functional.
Instead of stating “no one went blind on one eye because of the covid vaccine”, have the guts to either call me or the young woman who told me a liar. And instead of your “PERIOD” explain that the vaccine could not have caused it.
What kind of conclusion is it for a medical specialist “I haven’t seen it in my clinic so it doesn’t exist”? Doesn’t this sound like the amateurism of an unexperienced phycisian? It is people like you that destroy the lives of their patients. I’ve seen their mistakes many times and it’s due to arrogance combined with unexperience.
But enough said, let’s find out.
Have a look at: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046252/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech-VAP-05.01.22.pdf
Then have a look under: “Visual impairment and blindness (excl colour blindness)”
And what do you read there: “Blindness unilateral 17”
If you’re a man you say something like ‘I was wrong, I’m sorry’. Then you think about what I wrote to you (and I guess others as well) and JustaTech; perhaps it is difficult to imagine for people with your mindset, but let me spell it out for you: I DO NOT LIE. I don’t have to, feel no need to and it’s my principle not to.
Well now, definately something isn’t right about your databases; find out what that could be and inform us. Then you have added value here.
Here is the preamble to your list of terrible post-vaccination “reactions” :
Kind of resembles to VAERS, doesn’t it?
You’re a liar. Period. NO ONE went blind in one eye after vaccination because of the vaccine. YOU ARE A LIAR.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You really do not know anything about statistics if you think that five persons is a great enough sample. Second thing is selection bias, You speak jusy with antivaxxers, do you not ?
Post marketing surveillance is explained here:
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/surveillance/postmarketing-surveillance-programs
It nothing to do with marketing.”
Please Aarno, read before you write.
Firstly it’s not five persons, it’s nine persons.
Secondly,I never said it is a great enough sample to make an educated guess about the exact amount or what kind of side effects are occurring in a population. JustaTech draw the same wrong conclusion and, while meanwhile I explained, you repeat it. Tiring.
Now what did I tell JustaTech:
“That is nine persons. Too limited to give the whole picture indeed, but hey, I never said it wasn’t.
However, it is statistically hardly possible that this many persons having severe side effects would only occur in my area without underlying explanation. Assuming the side effects are indeed vaccination related, it could be that… I am lying, the people telling me their experiences are liyng or your databases lie. Of course we may discuss the supposed relation with the vaccines. But apart from that, certainly I’m not lying nor have I any reason to believe those people are. That means with a high percentage of certainty that your databases are falling short severely!
So I repeat myself and invite you to defend the reliability and completeness of the databases you rely on. I think they’re dead and dead wrong as a complete picture sketch.”
Now Aarno, just like I asked JustaTech I may ask you for your analysys; what the hell is going on with these databases? Based on the above, these databases can simply not provide you the complete data of side effects. That is what statistics does tell us. Period. If you don’t agree with that, it simply means you don’t have a damn clue about statistics / calculation of chance – just like JustaTech has no knowledge on the subject. Now, go ahead and tell us what is wrong.
And do me a favour: stop that ludicrous term ‘antivaxxer’. Don’t be a parrot of mainstream BS.
And no, I don’t speak to people who don’t trust these mRNA vaccines. Not that I speak to many people, but most of them I happen to are acquintances of course; I’m pretty sure most of them are vaccinated due to blind obedience.
Of the nine people I mentioned most are acquintances, some I happened to meet on the street, another one I met during a Zoom session, another two in shops nearby, another two are neighbours and the last two are / were people in Surinam. Only the young woman isn’t vaccinated, the rest is.
I never said that this surveillance has anything to do with marketing. But the term marketing coupled to surveillance makes no sense at all, other then that it gives an indication of the motives behind these vaccines: profit.
One final point: I don’t write in whatever other forum. I don’t give a damn thing about these vaccines, who are pro or against. You want one, you take one: your business. Just leave me alone with the crab, but that’s not what our governments have in mind. And that I do not like.
Most of all, what I do care about is what I wrote several times here and that is the corporate takeover of Global Governance while most of you are sleeping. That is the worrying thing. Have you never asked yourself where this vaccination campaigns originate? Then it is about time you find that out. Vaccinating the population plays a role in that takeover, phycisians are the small pawns that are abused for the purpose.
Marketing here means putting into the market. Perhaps better name could be used.
I have spoken with many people about COVID vaccine side effects, too. Generally it is injection site pain, though one old lady reported flu like symptoms.
That is why a clinical can have tens of thousands participants, a personal experience could be misleading.
@Aarno Syvänen
Prl’s question was “what is your preferred theory of abiogenesis?”
Instead of giving him my answer, is it wrong to have an expert give the answer? And perhaps with some of his context, be it more or less relevant?
Aarno, I think you are focusing on just another theory that of course these experts are aware of like no other – the thought isn’t of recent date either.
In reality the origin of life is a science writer’s dream. It abounds with exotic scientists and exotic theories, which are never entirely abandoned or accepted, but merely go in and out of fashion. They are theories at best and mere story telling at worst. They are not scientifically proven or provable.
I’m not that much into ideologies to which observations are applied when convenient and ignored when not.
Those who believe evolutionary theories are scientifically implausible often argue in an unsystematic manner. Frequently a ‘one-punch knockout’ strategy is used, jumping from topic to topic looking for just the right line of reasoning to avoid effort.
You may read “The Stairway to Life: An origin-of-life reality check” of Dr Tan and Dr Stadler. It offers a structured approach to the conflict, by breaking down the naturalistic approach to the origin of life into 12 discrete stages.
Like one scientist says “the biggest mystery of all is how all this matter came to be in one place at one time to allow for the development of chemical processes. All of this is beyond our grasp and likely always will be.”
And then, how precisely was it that life sprung from organic matter and began the long cycle of supposed evolution (of which we still not have any proof either)? And how do we put it all in the timeframe where my original statement was about. Feel free to tell me, I’m listening.
Just be aware of brainwashing with science fiction. It’s not the first time that I see basic logic reasoning disappear. It can be advantageous to now and then look in the complete opposite direction.
That’s a very long way of saying, “No, I’m not going to answer that question.”
Your experts believe that abiogenesis is that a original cell appeared from nothingness with circa 250 genes.This is of course very unprobable. That is why a much more plausible theory has been suggested, you should check it.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Your experts believe that abiogenesis is that a original cell appeared from nothingness with circa 250 genes.This is of course very unprobable. That is why a much more plausible theory has been suggested, you should check it.”
Let’s have a look at “my experts” then.
Have a look at the article “The RNA world hypothesis: the worst theory of the early evolution of life (except for all the others)”; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3495036/
Do you see what say is incorrect, as nota bene one of the experts to review that article is Eugene Koonin. You’ll find his comment at a page below.
I quote a piece of his review here:
“I basically agree with Bernhardt. The RNA World scenario is bad as a scientific hypothesis: it is hardly falsifiable and is extremely difficult to verify due to a great number of holes in the most important parts. To wit, no one has achieved bona fide self-replication of RNA which is the cornerstone of the RNA World. Nevertheless, there is a lot going for the RNA World (Bernhardt summarizes much of the evidence, and I add more below) whereas the other hypotheses on the origin of life are outright helpless. Moreover, as argued in some detail elsewhere [91], the RNA World appears to be an outright logical inevitability. ‘Something’ had to start efficiently replicating to kick off evolution…”
Of course as an atheist you can understand his last words quoted here. Typical for atheists, Richard Dawkin inclusive.
There is of course examples of self replicating RNA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegelman%27s_Monster
Ribozymes (RNA enzymes) are known to catalyze many reactions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribozyme
Actually rRNA catalyses proteiri synthesis itself. VS ribozye carries cleavage of phosphodiester bond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VS_ribozyme
There are pathogens consisting only RNA (viroids)
About RNA World ? Why it is logically inconsistent ? Self replicating RNA actually exist, as do ribozymes.
Why it is not refutable ? Actually, way to refute it is to test does RNA self replicate and have catalylic function, if it does not, RNA world does is not possible.
He could have made himself relavent by countering the misinformation against a technology he helped create. But no, he had to take the wrong route.
@Orac
“No, ivermectin does not work. Seriously, the big studies that showed that it did were either fraudulent or highly dubious. The better quality studies showed that it did not work.”
You probably have heard of Dr. John Campbell and Dr. Been (Drbeen Medical Lectures). They’re on Youtube about the Covid topic every day. Both docters are pro vaccination, but appear to be objective personalities. They both showed that Ivermectin is proven to work and in what way.
You seem to disagree; now why don’t you get in contact with one of these docters and proof your point. They have quite a large public that may be of interest to you. I might even get you in contact with one of these docters too if you wish.
So, what do you say?
Seriously, you think a youtube lecture would prove that ivermectin works ? Actually, a clinical trialis needed.
I don’t need to get in touch with them. I actually do clinical medicine. Seen plenty of people taking IVM. Dozens by now. IT DOESN’T WORK. If it did we would hand it out like candy. Stop talking bullshit.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Marketing here means putting into the market. Perhaps better name could be used.
I have spoken with many people about COVID vaccine side effects, too. Generally it is injection site pain, though one old lady reported flu like symptoms.
That is why a clinical can have tens of thousands participants, a personal experience could be misleading.”
Yeah, yeah. I didn’t make that much of a deal of it, except the “(marketing?)” remark.
Why? Because health matters shouldn’t primarily be based on marketing / profit. Unfortunately it is, with some nasty consequences as a result. Getting the population vaccinated had become a goal way before the pandemic. Then came this deliberately caused pandemic. And voila, the result of this ‘marketing’: a loss of lives in the millions. Great.
So you think only state owned enterprises should make medications ? All private enterprise is based on profit. As marketing, how you would inform people about a product ?
@Kirby Dupree
“Ivermectin does work. Big Pharma doesn’t want that. Theres no money in it for them. Government is in bed with Big Pharma. Vaccines will be proven to have long term side effects. Im vaxxed but think it was unnecessary. Definitely wrong for kids. Everything is about controlling someone or something else. We have become a horrible society. BTW check out how Japan has used IVM to effectively defeat Covid.”
Indeed and these vaccines are an introduction to that ‘controlling’. And there isn’t much time left to halt that.
There are no good clinical trials about ivermectin. It is heavily promoted by Kory et al. Why do believe their marketing ? It is promoted by Senator Johnson, too. He is in bed with Kory, if you did not notice.
Once again-actual doctor here who actually takes care of real covid patients in the real world. IVM does NOTHING. Wanna get fleeced? Go ask for some. Waste your money.
@TBruce
“”Really how fast were these vaccines produced?””
“You know, we could dick around for years till we prove the vaccines are safe enough for your approval. Meanwhile, a few million more people will die of covid. But, heck, gotta respect your irrational fears, don’t we?”
That is not what I ment. It’s my guess that these vaccines were developed years and years ago. And I think that some people have exact knowledge about its side effects just as long.
We’ve smelt that rat for years. But know I repeat myself.
Die of covid? That depends. What have you to worry about when you’re healthy and not too old? Statisticly as good as nothing. Agree?
Let me tell you a recent experience of an older friend of mine. Not too clever, in his mid 70’s, lots of overweight, diabete, some neurological disorders, kind of weak, fully vaccinated.
He got ill a week ago and didn’t test positive at first. I adviced him to immediatly go for a more official test, where indeed he tested positive for covid. He got quite ill and his situation certainly didn’t improve during the first three days.
No physician to assist him in any way in this country. He’s on medication (Metformine, Omeprazol, Cetrizine, Amlodipine, Lisinopril, Alsbesilaat, Tamsulosine). No interaction to be expected with Ivermectine.
I know another guy who wanted to import Ivermectine, but our Customs are so keen to intercept Ivermectine. He tried it twice without success, so I adviced him how to. He now has half a kg of the stuff for human use, enough for a city full of covid patients.
So I told my friend who got more and more ill about Ivermectin. And I said I could get it for him, but at his own risk.
He has used it now for three days (together with zinc, vit. B complex, vit. C and vit. D dosed accoring to the FLCCC website) starting in the evening. From the next morning he started feeling much better. Again a day later he went out (stupid and not allowed) and said he had a lot more energy; his throat sounded okay and he said that the muscle pain was gone. He only still sleeps bad, is still rather tired but for the rest feels quite well.
Was it the Ivermectine that cured this vulnerable man? Who knows. One thing to note is that he recuperated immidiatly after he started using it.
Ivermectine seems to have worked in countries like India quite well. Much better then your vaccines have done in your country, isn’t it?
You agan tell stories. Dr Yeti has told many stories about people believing ivermectin ending ICU. Plural of an anecdote is not data.
@TBruce
“A report of a suspected ADR to the Yellow Card scheme does not necessarily mean that it was caused by the vaccine, only that the reporter has a suspicion it may have.
Kind of resembles to VAERS, doesn’t it?”
What’s your point?
This is my point, for starters:
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/12/27/2021-the-year-the-weaponization-of-vaers-went-mainstream/
@Aarno Syvänen
“I have spoken with many people about COVID vaccine side effects, too. Generally it is injection site pain, though one old lady reported flu like symptoms.
That is why a clinical can have tens of thousands participants, a personal experience could be misleading.”
May be you have spoken with many people, but in my case it weren’t that many. I hardly ever start the topic myself. Most of the people I know seem just fine, otherwise I would have heard or noticed it. And of course a personal experience can be misleading, as would be the case when I know one or perhaps two such victims. But in the case of nine (seven severe) out of a not so large a group (I should make an estimation of that number for the actual calculation) the situation is different, like I explained.
Unfortunately you haven’t answered my question about the reliablility and completeness of your databases. I repeat myself when I say I think they’re dead wrong as a complete picture sketch. At least something doesn’t add up, feel free to ask a statistician that you know. Unfortunately JustaTech and the others refuse to reply.
One last question, out of the many people you have spoken to about side effects, have you followed them after they were vaccinated and for how long? Were there any severe side effects? How many victims did you count out of what group?
I did not ask people about side effects either, it was just general chat about COVID,
VAERS reporting:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/hcproviders/reportingadverseevents.html
Health care workers are required by law to report serious side effects.
Unlike you, I do have some concern for old and chronically ill people. In addition, although younger people may be less likely to die (although many still do), they run a risk of between 10 to 30% of developing long-haul covid. But that doesn’t matter, I suppose.
You state that you don’t lie. I believe that. But you sure do bullshit.
Here’s the difference: https://reasonandmeaning.com/2020/10/29/lying-vs-bullshit/
I’ll drop this one in here just for funsies.
Rebecca Watson describes Malone’s path to the antivax speaking circuit as like a comic book super-villain origin story.
First he was upset that the Salk Institute and his subsequent employer profited from his work. Then way back in February 2020, he got Covid-19 and developed long Covid-19 symptoms. He got vaccinated hoping to make the symptoms better, but says they got worse instead. So he decided to go to work spreading the word about the harms of the Covid-19 vaccines.
https://youtu.be/Lu_Wogm6HDk
[…] like many other esteemed scientists, has been accused of being a “conspiracy theorist” and “pro-anti-vaxxer”, yet he himself has admitted to having had the COVID […]
@Renate, @ Kirby
“And who makes Ivermectin? Big Pharma!
So if it would work, they would acknowledge it, because there is money to be made. Or do you really think they wouldn’t be able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it, if it worked?
But no, Big Pharma rather spends lots of money to try to make some new medicines to fight Covid. And of course they made vaccines. And I prefer taking a vaccine, even with a booster, or even more boosters, over getting ill and putting my hope on some medicine.”
Such nonsense you write!
Merck’s patent on ivermectin expired in 1996. Thus, other companies’ ivermectin preparations are now commercially available.
Now you tell me how ‘Big Pharma is able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it’. I’m curious to know.
It’s your choice to take the crab that you want and it’s another’s choice tot take f.e. Ivermectin, I would say respect that.
Have you asked yourself how beneficial your vaccine is related to Omicron?
Have you asked yourself what the effect to your body is when every couple of months you get your vaccine?
“Merck’s patent on ivermectin expired in 1996. Thus, other companies’ ivermectin preparations are now commercially available.
Now you tell me how ‘Big Pharma is able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it’. I’m curious to know.”
It’s almost like you’ve never heard of the lucrative generics market. It’s not like only Bayer can make aspirin. A company doesn’t have to have a patent on a thing to make money manufacturing and selling it. It’s just easier to make money if you’re the only manufacturer.
Remember Shkreli ? He actually was in generic drug market. You can hike the price of a generic drug by a lot.
@TBruce
Die of covid? That depends. What have you to worry about when you’re healthy and not too old? Statisticly as good as nothing. Agree?
“Unlike you, I do have some concern for old and chronically ill people. In addition, although younger people may be less likely to die (although many still do), they run a risk of between 10 to 30% of developing long-haul covid. But that doesn’t matter, I suppose.”
No TBruce, I don’t think you care for other people. Meanwhile you should have made a risk versus benefit analysys of these vaccines. But it seems you are still fine with vaccinating people that don’t need it (like children and healthy adults). So, seen the vaccines’ side effects aren’t you perhaps better described as a murderer?
“You state that you don’t lie. I believe that. But you sure do bullshit.”
Here’s the difference:
Telling BS means saying something that isn’t true. I would argue that’s the same as lying.
TBruce, it is simple to make accusations. Now it is time you share with us what these lies are.
Singapore ministry of health publish atual statistics:
ttps://www.moh.gov.sg
a) people of all age groups are hospitalized
b) circa 90% of hospitalized are not fully vaccinated
@TBruce
“This is my point, for starters:
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/12/27/2021-the-year-the-weaponization-of-vaers-went-mainstream/”
Again, what is your point? You wrote that “a report of a suspected ADR to the Yellow Card scheme does not necessarily mean that it was caused by the vaccine, only that the reporter has a suspicion it may have.
So you are saying it is better to be sorry than safe? Remarkable person you are.
Sometimes I wonder whether you people are really human(s).
It seems to me like you’re demented in some evil way. And you seem to feel backed because it is a collective feature.
Ask yourself when in history we’ve seen that before and if you’re aware what it means for you and your relatives if you go that rabbit hole.
Still I’m waiting for at least one of you ‘specialists’ to defend the reliability and completeness of the databases you rely on.
Come on, the question really isn’t that hard.
Actually you should remember that correlation is not causation. If something happens after vaccination,this does not mean that it happens because of it.
About being sorry, you would be sorry if you get COVID, would you ?
@TBruce
“they run a risk of between 10 to 30% of developing long-haul covid. But that doesn’t matter, I suppose.”
Oh yes, that does matter.
However, you don’t tell us what is the risk of developing a similar long-haul covid effect because of the vaccines. Exactly this happened to both my neighbours.
@Lucas:
There’s no point in further discussion with you
You have obviously not understood a thing from the references I provided. Either that,
or not looked at them at all.
It seems that the best way to stay healthy is to keep as far away as possible from you.
You mean one that told you that someone lost sight in his eye after vaccination ? This is actually double hearsay.
@TBruce
@Lucas:
There’s no point in further discussion with you
You have obviously not understood a thing from the references I provided. Either that, or not looked at them at all.
Exactly this happened to both my neighbours. It seems that the best way to stay healthy is to keep as far away as possible from you.
Are you always that childish little boy when you have no substantial ammunition left?
Come on, answer the questions. That’s why you are here for. And that’s what you should be able to. Coward!
Bye Felicia.
You just repeat stories. Do you think that this is real ammunition ? My tories are entirely different, you remember.
@JustaTech
“Merck’s patent on ivermectin expired in 1996. Thus, other companies’ ivermectin preparations are now commercially available.
Now you tell me how ‘Big Pharma is able to find a way to make a bigger profit from it’. I’m curious to know.”
It’s almost like you’ve never heard of the lucrative generics market. It’s not like only Bayer can make aspirin. A company doesn’t have to have a patent on a thing to make money manufacturing and selling it. It’s just easier to make money if you’re the only manufacturer.
Don’t be a know-all please. Ivermectine is produced in India and China in huge quantities and sold at very low cost. Ten kilometers away from where I have my head office is the largest manufacturer of Stromectol (Ivermectine) called MSD. The product isn’t very lucrative, but is still profitable because of quantity. Mainly sold for animal use.
How lucrative will it be since we have insurance companies? Ask yourself that question.
Lucas:
1) Please learn how to use the “reply” button, your thread breaking makes you very hard to read and respond to.
2) Please fully close your quotes so it is clear to all readers when you are quoting someone else, especially as you keep breaking threads.
As for your comments about Ivermectin: 1) are any of the manufacturers in China and India approved importers to the US? If not then it doesn’t matter how much they make or for what price.
2) Insurance companies are a big part of why prescription medication is so expensive in the US, so why would that impact the profitability of the medication?
Why do you think that an Indian companay woukld not hike the price ?
Aarno Syvänen
“I did not ask people about side effects either, it was just general chat about COVID”
– That’s a shame.
“VAERS reporting:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/hcproviders/reportingadverseevents.html
Health care workers are required by law to report serious side effects.”
But do they really? And when and in what stage is there mention of a side effect due the vaccine?
Plus there often seems no time to do the reporting. Besides of to what degree such action is appreciated at all and therefor perhaps not executed as it should be.
About these data, before I mentioned the serious 4 side effects of a control group of 66.000 people that were followed for a while after vaccination. Take my word for it that these figures are trustworthy. Goal of the research was to demonstrate that these vaccines are safe and could therefor be used in a much larger group (many millions).
So that is a serious side effect of 1 : 16.500. However, the group mentioned has a more then average healthy lifestyle (no smoking, hardly any obesity, normal, regular exercize, good mental health, etc.) with an age range of 20 – 65 years old.
Although these vaccines were promoted as safe, I think the outcome was nothing more then upsetting. What if the group had an average lifestyle and consisted of the group >65 as well? I guess you may be glad with an outcome like 1 : 1000 as a serious side effect. May be worse.
Then we don’t know the long term side effects that will happen in that group nor the effect of the boosters to follow.
Instead of a reassurance I think the outcome is upsetting if you think it through.
Btw, the data mentioned here (if indeed true like I claim) also show that the official databases are way off base. And it is conform what I notice around me.
That means you and me are being lied to.
Feel free to comment if you like.
Perhaps of interest to you: https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51
Oh look-an article by a “naturopathic oncologist.”
So you are saying that health care workers are breaking the law ?
There were follow up studies after authorization, not financed by Big Pharma. There were really big one in Israel:
Saciuk Y, Kertes J, Mandel M, Hemo B, Shamir Stein N, Ekka Zohar A. Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine effectiveness against Sars-Cov-2 infection: Findings from a large observational study in Israel. Prev Med. 2021 Dec 30;155:106947. doi: 10.1016/j.ypmed.2021.106947. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34974072; PMCID: PMC8717697.
Results were very similar as in clinical trials. Fauci and Gates were not involved, neither was US goverment,
@Aarno Syvänen
“So you think only state owned enterprises should make medications ? All private enterprise is based on profit. As marketing, how you would inform people about a product ?”
Of course not, have commercial entities make medications. That is what they are good at.
However it is fundamentally wrong to have private companies run a nation’s health.
There is no need nor preference for Big Pharma to market medicins directly to consumers. It is a governmental task primarily when a pandemic is involved and that goes for the informative task as well. At an individual level it is through the physician.
Btw, this pandemic has probably gone so out of control because of Big Pharma interfering. See Geert van den Bossche and diverse scientific reports on vaccinating in a pandemic.
So who would sell medication to government. They would be, by definition, pharmaceutical companies. Perhaps you mean that government should buy from small pharmaceutical companies ? Moderbna is one, actually.
“Then we don’t know the long term side effects that will happen in that group”
Yes we do. The arm will wither away down to the sinewy stump and save us lots of mess and screaming and cost cleanup and other stuffs that otherwise would impede the grafting of the MinceMaker 9814 cybernetic force multiplier. It was our plan all along.
@JustaTech:
“”Please fully close your quotes
Is double up front like that still in vogue??
@Aarno Syvänen
@Orac
“No, ivermectin does not work. Seriously, the big studies that showed that it did were either fraudulent or highly dubious. The better quality studies showed that it did not work.” You probably have heard of Dr. John Campbell and Dr. Been (Drbeen Medical Lectures). They’re on Youtube about the Covid topic every day. Both […]
Seriously, you think a youtube lecture would prove that ivermectin works ? Actually, a clinical trialis needed.”
I didn’t say what I think. I invited the good docter to have an audience while explaining to one of the docters mentioned, that what they say about the effectiveness of Ivermectine is based on nothing.
Still the good docter hasn’t replied. Why would that be, you think?
(pssst, I think he’s afraid he would be the loser of that conversation; but give him some more time and it will be clear if he is just a coward with a big mouth telling nonsense or not)
Do you mean this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)
You missed the point, the problem is quality of clinical trials. A discussion would not fix this.
@MedicalYeti
“Oh look-an article by a “naturopathic oncologist.”
Have you read the peer-reviewed article in the International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice and Research?
What are your findings? Become wiser on the subject?
Have you seen the extended list of references? What does that tell you?
You forget the citation.
Well, it is actually not needed:
https://www.quora.com/Is-The-International-Journal-of-Vaccine-Theory-Practice-and-Research-a-serious-science-based-publication-or-a-mouthpiece-for-anti-vaxxer
@JustaTech
“As for your comments about Ivermectin: 1) are any of the manufacturers in China and India approved importers to the US?”
– Didn’t you know that almost all such medicins come from China? Furthermore, China and India are the source of 75% to 80% of the APIs (active pharmaceutical ingredients) imported to the US. Often for the mentioned approval, controllers from the West are accommodated in these China based factories, just because of quality issues. But since we’re so keen on saving the last dime, this is the result.
“Insurance companies are a big part of why prescription medication is so expensive in the US, so why would that impact the profitability of the medication?”
– May be so, but since it’s the insurance companies that fund these meds, it’s them that determin the supplier for a great part. At least that’s the case here in Europe. These companies in no way pay a higher price then necessary. So when it’s a drug that’s not patented anymore, it’s clear what happens.
Big Pharma doesn’t get rich of such drugs, often the opposite is true.
Therefore investments in Parmaceutics are in general always led by the development of new drugs for specific goals (in design and/or testing phase). Never about outdated portfolios. Ask son of a bitch ‘marketmaker’ Gates, he knows that like no other.
An API is not a medication. It is an ingredient that requires final formulation. The rest of your paragraph makes no sense and I’m starting to think you don’t know anything about the regulations surrounding the importation and exportation of drug products or medical devices.
European methods of paying for medication and health services have nothing to do with the US.
I am so tired of people pointlessly bring Bill Gates into conversations that have absolutely nothing to do with him. He’s not a universal boogeyman.
There are money to be made in generics, too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viatris
It sell generics.
As for Gates, you could check for instance Pfizer’s shareholders:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PFE/holders?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHXEENXTDtvFiAFS3b2RdNp-GgnWK-wgxloehPuvw1sSF3SAIQGNv6kF9Q8mQzGahzUWoPqm9YfcwfRR24KTeE0SKaJa8AaSzZ-zyRHfy1fmP4_p5uaekOknqXvFqjfd5nIUVv39M06pPyvGNbryLBbwoLjB2Bld6ho-asEdbZBm
As usual, it is institutional investors.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You agan tell stories. Dr Yeti has told many stories about people believing ivermectin ending ICU. Plural of an anecdote is not data.”
I’m not sure if this reply is ment for me.
If so, I mentioned that in this country you will not get any medication before ending up in hospital. I checked it for myself at my physician and even I would not be able to get IVM, even if I wish so (scared to loose the license).
So, what was I to do? I guess we have to play for docter ourselves then in order to try and avoid hospitalization. And that worked apparently quite well with this vulnerable man.
If indeed IVM is helpful as it appears to be in large countries like India, you guys have blood on your hands. Can you live with that?
Except it’s not helpful at all.
@Lawrence
India thinks it is.
And remember: statistics don’t lie.
@Lucas India believed that ivermectin works and dropped it ? Not very probable.
India does not use ivermectin anymore:
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/ClinicalGuidanceforManagementofAdultCovid19Patientsupdatedason17thJanuary2022.pdf
India would not have dropped ivermectin, if it works,
Take Dr Yeti’s advice.
For all of you youngsters (I’m pretty sure that’s most of you): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXjvCcYpSY0&t=192s
Not that I agree with him on mask mandates BS, just wear the damn thing.
It has been our job for decades to predict the future – especially so in an economical sense – and it has made us very rich. Which means we were right most of the times. So when we say that we’re heading for chaos (in an economical ánd social sense) – as we knew way before the pandemic – you might want to give it a thought. Especially so because people of your age don’t have a helicoptering ability yet, to see the broader picture of things.
Definately the minds of students in the West have been filthened (brainwashed) with leftist propaganda for long enough to have a great impact on society; as a result there’s not only devision, but the moral of people in charge now (be that in government or in business) is so low that society as a whole has become corrupt. There’s no turning back. History shows that this will have severe consequences. So you may want to plan what will be left of your future, based on this scenario as you will definately be confronted with it.
This implies that you have to be careful with choosing side; you’ll never know if the ‘coup d’etat’ that is being rolled out now, will succeed. Push a (part of a) population too far in a corner with a take away of freedom and/or possessions, and the tide may turn. Anger usually gets vented. As it gets more and more clear that people are tricked into this dangerous medical experiment that you defend, that anger may turn towards you.
That’s why I advice you to start learning history’s lessons, get away from this platform defending dangerous, and for most needless, vaccinations. And above all make sure your names don’t get in the open, like David Gorski has gotten his.
Vaccine refusers making a coup d’etat ? Not damn probable. Only thing you can support your “dangerous medical experiment” story is stories.
Again using “we” – nope, not crazy at all….jeez, get a grip.
@MedicalYeti
“@Orac “No, ivermectin does not work. Seriously, the big studies that showed that it did were either fraudulent or highly dubious. The better quality studies showed that it did not work.” You probably have heard of Dr. John Campbell and Dr. Been (Drbeen Medical Lectures). They’re on Youtube about the Covid topic every day. Both […]
I don’t need to get in touch with them. I actually do clinical medicine. Seen plenty of people taking IVM. Dozens by now. IT DOESN’T WORK. If it did we would hand it out like candy. Stop talking bullshit.”
Isn’t that exactly why you should defend your standpoint there? And it would give you the chance to be of help to all the followers of these docters.
But I expected this to be your reaction and avoid the confrontation. That says enough.
@MedicalYeti
@Kirby Dupree “Ivermectin does work. Big Pharma doesn’t want that. Theres no money in it for them. Government is in bed with Big Pharma. Vaccines will be proven to have long term side effects. Im vaxxed but think it was unnecessary. Definitely wrong for kids. Everything is about controlling someone or something else. We have […]
Once again-actual doctor here who actually takes care of real covid patients in the real world. IVM does NOTHING. Wanna get fleeced? Go ask for some. Waste your money.
There are other actual docters with a different opinion.
I just look at data and I see that countries that used IVM did much better. Aren’t you ashamed with these results?
Have a look at India, most areas used IVM wile in some other areas it was prohibited. The outcome between them is distressing. What is your reply to that?
India has dropped ivermection long since:
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/RevisedNationalClinicalManagementGuidelineforCOVID1931032020.pdf
Perhaps this is because it did not work ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“Remember Shkreli ? He actually was in generic drug market. You can hike the price of a generic drug by a lot.”
Yes but no.
So you are saying that a pharmaceutical company would never hike prices, even if demand goes uo ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“Singapore ministry of health publish atual statistics:
ttps://www.moh.gov.sg
a) people of all age groups are hospitalized
b) circa 90% of hospitalized are not fully vaccinated”
Based on your statistics, who would and who wouldn’t you vaccinate?
Very obvious. Use your brains.
@Aarno Syvänen
“India has dropped ivermection long since:
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/RevisedNationalClinicalManagementGuidelineforCOVID1931032020.pdf
Perhaps this is because it did not work?”
Statistics show it worked. Now India will go down the same rabbit hole as we do. Shall we bet?
Actually, statistics didn’t…which is why, when people looked at the real data, they dropped it.
Aarno Syvänen
@TBruce “This is my point, for starters: https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2021/12/27/2021-the-year-the-weaponization-of-vaers-went-mainstream/” Again, what is your point? You wrote that “a report of a suspected ADR to the Yellow Card scheme does not necessarily mean that it was caused by the vaccine, only that the reporter has a suspicion it may have. So you are saying it is better […]
Actually you should remember that correlation is not causation. If something happens after vaccination,this does not mean that it happens because of it.
About being sorry, you would be sorry if you get COVID, would you?
No, I will survive, thanks. Don’t worry about me.
Worry about yourself after your x time booster. Even though I’m probably double your age, it is to be expected that I will live longer and most probably healthier then you will; extrapolation of the data I shared with you; not sure, yet likely.
And go ahead, stay in denial of data. It’s your health.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You mean one that told you that someone lost sight in his eye after vaccination ? This is actually double hearsay.”
No, I don’t think you read that well.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Why do you think that an Indian companay woukld not hike the price?”
Uhm, perhaps because there is no hike in demand? Or shortage in raw material?
Or… perhaps the Indian company doesn’t wanna go broke?
Aarno Syvänen
“So you are saying that health care workers are breaking the law ?
Where are the statistics of reported side effects of the vaccines? That was what the discussion was about.
Do I have another analyses for you from Israel: https://steve-ohana.medium.com/young-adult-mortality-in-israel-during-the-covid-19-crisis-ff7456cff74f
It’s about the observed rise of excess mortality among 20 to 49-year-olds after vaccination.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You missed the point, the problem is quality of clinical trials. A discussion would not fix this.”
– So, discuss it with them and make the public aware! Your chance, but you don’t dare?
Watch this and you have some background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75VN1aFXwZw
Such pathetic low life, amazingly filthy, criminal scumbags!
Here are some quoted reactions you read right underneath there. The same happened to my 75 year old, very unhealthy friend I told you about. Took IVM before he went to sleep and the next morning he felt so much better. What would you have done? Let him die or give him what he needed?
Erin O’Brien
13 dagen geleden
My husband was in bed with high fever, unable to eat for days, too weak to speak. I gave him Ivermectin and Zinc and he was up feeling much better and eating with no fever within 24 hours. It was a miraculous turn around.
Repressing this medication is criminal!
Florangela Hinckley
13 dagen geleden
Ivermectin saved two of my family members affected withheld covid virus, they experienced immediate improvement, thank God for this medicine
Deb Robenolt
13 dagen geleden
My daughter was 15 days in, d dimer high/positive but no clots, oxygen at 91, 29 yrs of age, no obesity, diabetes or anything. Ivermectin prescribed with hydrochloroquine. Off oxygen within 24 hrs. Went to work a couple days after that. Completely fine. No side effects.
Joy Massin
13 dagen geleden (bewerkt)
I’m a recent ex Lung Cancer patient (no smoker) and got recently covid. Not vaccinated because too many unknown factors. My oxygen level went to 74% and didn’t want to go to IC. My doctor gave me IVM (also antibiotics because of Lung Inflammation, prednisolon and aspirin). After 4 hours my oxygen went up. After 1 week healed. IVM saved my Life.
Michelle Mcdermott
13 dagen geleden
This drug has saved my husband and I and many others we know. This is scary
“We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
@JustaTech
“An API is not a medication.”
That’s what was explained in my text, wasn’t it?
And not only my text was about API, you read the following: “Didn’t you know that almost all such medicins come from China?” Well now you do.
I also gave you some more context on your controllers in China manufacturing… medicins. That is because China is your manufacturer. Get it now?
“I’m starting to think you don’t know anything about the regulations surrounding the importation and exportation of drug products or medical devices.”
– Think what you want. I think you don’t have a damn clue, really. Have you ever imported meds from China? I did many times in the function of marketeer. But you? Really? For what reason if I may ask?
“I am so tired of people pointlessly bring Bill Gates into conversations that have absolutely nothing to do with him. He’s not a universal boogeyman.”
Well, we are not so tired as you are. Like I said, we’ve been tracking the son of a bitch for a long time, it took a while to connect the dots and then we knew the game he played (see before if you’re interested) and what organisations were involved. That’s how we got extremely rich in 2020.
How about you? You just got tired in 2020?
“We?” Who is “we” exactly? And you do realize statements like that make you sound crazy, right?
@Lucas: well, that went nowhere.
First, “China” is not a manufacturer. A company in China might manufacture APIs or finished drug products, but the country of China does not.
“your controllers in China manufacturing” – this literally makes no sense. Who is “you” in this statement? What are “controllers”?
“function of marketeer” Again, this makes no sense. I think you must have some extremely strange definitions of “market” and “marketing”. Literally the only context I have ever heard of “marketeer” in is when someone is talking about a person who sells on the black market.
If you are selling on the legitimate market then you would say things like “importer” or “distributor” or even “sales person”.
” That’s how we got extremely rich in 2020.”
Ah, crypto. That explains so much.
I think we’re done here.
@justfyi
“The European Medicines Agency warned that too frequent COVID boosters are both unfeasible and could have negative effects on the human immune system.”
Haven’t I been saying this before here? Perhaps now you listen?
Funny…the only place I find references to that are crank conspiracy websites.
@Lawrence
Aarno Syvänen “India has dropped ivermection long since: https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/RevisedNationalClinicalManagementGuidelineforCOVID1931032020.pdf Perhaps this is because it did not work?” Statistics show it worked. Now India will go down the same rabbit hole as we do. Shall we bet?
“Actually, statistics didn’t…which is why, when people looked at the real data, they dropped it.”
We are not so much interested in non causality.
Give us the real data that your answer is based upon and compare these to the situation in your country.
Have you compared Indian states that used IVM and the ones that didn’t? Why the difference?
If India goes vax, it will the next Israel. Probably worse.
Why would India drop ivermectin, if it works ? Ivermectin is even a local product.,
You notice too that many generic drugs are recommended. Why this is happening, if this is pharma plot ?
Lucas:
There’s no “if”. India “went vax” some time ago, and now has the second-largest number of people vaccinated, fully or partially, of any country in the world, after China. They have 65% with some vaccination protection, 47% fully vaccinated.
Do you think Lucas maybe doesn’t know about the Serum Institute of India?
@Lawrence
“An API is not a medication.” That’s what was explained in my text, wasn’t it? And not only my text was about API, you read the following: “Didn’t you know that almost all such medicins come from China?” Well now you do. I also gave you some more context on your controllers in China […]
“We?” Who is “we” exactly? And you do realize statements like that make you sound crazy, right?
I don’t see a “we” in your quotation. What “we” do you mean?
If you mean “we” as in “we are not so tired as you are”, best is you read back in this blog and it may become more clear.
I can quote a piece of a text in order to not sound less crazy. “We” means us as investors. We knew about this pandemic before it started.
“we made a big bet against the index as there was a huge bell ringing at the exact right moment. We did know about the plan, we saw the commotion from Wuhan and what we expected the fear mongering we knew the media (if you know who owns the media you know the narrative) would make out of it. We saw the Chines stock market collapse. So when covid got into Europe through chinese that went to Italy, it was the moment to buy. Bloody easy. Investing is never about conspiracy shit, we knew what was going on. Just like meanwhile anyone should know what the hell is going on.”
Nope…not crazy at all…jeez.
Short positions are public:
https://ycharts.com/indicators/cme_sandp_500_consolidated_combined_total_reportable_short_positions
Check 3 year time interval. You would notice that shorting started after China locked down Wuhan. it was obvious then that trouble was brewing.
Shorting is a bet that people owning stock will lose money, did you know that ?
[…] their appearances on Joe Rogan’s podcast. Of course, having written about how Dr. Malone had gone full antivax (plus his conspiracy theories) and Dr. McCullough’s conspiracy theory that COVID-19 vaccines […]
@Lawrence
“Funny…the only place I find references to that are crank conspiracy websites.”
Just google it. A first hit: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says
You did read just the title. Article says:
Repeat booster doses every four months could eventually weaken the immune response and tire out people, according to the European Medicines Agency
It is not about overloading immune system at all. Is the claim false or true, is another thing.
@MedicalYeti
You’re a liar. Period. NO ONE went blind in one eye after vaccination because of the vaccine. YOU ARE A LIAR.
Isn’t it typical for people like you to just deny whatever it is that don’t fit in your fake world? Have you guys went insane? From what planet are you?
And why do you repeat your phrase, while I gave you the link that shows exactly the same side effect (wasn’t it 17 cases or something)? I repeat it for you underneath. Why don’t you have a look this time?
I told you I do not lie. So why don’t you give me an email address (otherwise you make a new one for the purpose), I will visit the girl in the shop and I ask her to be so kind to send you an email in which she can express in her own words what happened with her uncle? Then you report back to us what you found out.
I do not know if the young woman speaks your language, but most here do at least a bit. Otherwise she gives you the details in Dutch (or Arabic) and you use a translation programm. Then you and the young woman can have whatever conversation you want. Just realize she will have an Islamic background, need I say more. At least introduce yourself as a physician curious about side effects of vaccines, so you don’t seem suspicious to her family.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046252/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech-VAP-05.01.22.pdf
You may also google ‘blind in one eye after vaccination’ and you’ll find much more info.
Amazing that you deny such things with a medical background. I haven’t heard of it, so it doesn’t exist. Not good.
Of course you did not read this:
A report of a suspected ADR to the Yellow Card scheme does not necessarily
mean that it was caused by the vaccine, only that the reporter has a suspicion
it may have. Underlying or previously undiagnosed illness unrelated to vaccination
can also be factors in such reports. The relative number and nature of reports
should therefore not be used to compare the safety of the different vaccines.
All reports are kept under continual review in order to identify possible new risks.
Much like VAERS
@Aarno Syvänen
“Why would India drop ivermectin, if it works ? Ivermectin is even a local product.,
You notice too that many generic drugs are recommended. Why this is happening, if this is pharma plot?”
I guess for the same purpose why your country dropped it, I’m not sure. Don’t forget there is an overarching underlying agenda to vaccinate (which was there before the pandemic). We’ve discussed this before here and you can find that out for yourself if you visit the websites mentioned. Ivermectine gets in the way of vaccinating the population. And I’m sure there wouldn’t have been such thing as an emergency use for these vaccines in the first place if admittedly IVM works. That would have destroyed the plans behind vaccinenes, which is control.
That explains the hate speech when the subject is IVM.
And then, what do you mean when you say ‘India’. There are many ‘forces’ with different interests in India.
Why does other drugs approved or authorised to treat COVID do not hinder “vaccination agenda” Why every goverment in the world accept vaccination agenda ? This is very deep plot, indeed,
Actually recommendations are based on clinical research, have you ever considered this possibility ?
@You all
Update on Covid deaths in a 10 mln control group worldwide: 1 out of 365 died so far; real data.
I hope we get rid of this pandemy soon, otherwise it may turn out to be a real killer in the end.
This means 5500000 deaths. Most wars kill much less people.
“@Lucas: well, that went nowhere.
First, “China” is not a manufacturer. A company in China might manufacture APIs or finished drug products, but the country of China does not.
“your controllers in China manufacturing” – this literally makes no sense. Who is “you” in this statement? What are “controllers”?
“function of marketeer” Again, this makes no sense. I think you must have some extremely strange definitions of “market” and “marketing”. Literally the only context I have ever heard of “marketeer” in is when someone is talking about a person who sells on the black market.
If you are selling on the legitimate market then you would say things like “importer” or “distributor” or even “sales person”.
” That’s how we got extremely rich in 2020.”
Ah, crypto. That explains so much.
I think we’re done here.”
@JustaTech
Likely I’m twice your age, but that shouldn’t mean you’re that uhm… unsophisticated.
China as a manufacturer is a fully legitimate way in Economics to express yourself. Indeed that’s about the manufacturers in China. Time to watch some CNBC perhaps.
Your controllers of course are the controllers from your country. You have them in China, we have them in China. We need them because since we want our products almost for free, China (and don’t forget India) does our manufacturing. Unfortunately the Chinese are often not taking it so closely with quality control. So we are there to watch what they’re doing.
Indeed, I was a marketeer for several companies. Marketeer means something like specialist in marketing. Well, I hope so, otherwise I wonder what kept me busy all these years.
Nah, definitions of ‘market’ and ‘marketing’ are internationally recognized. Not so “extremely strange” actually.
Since this world has become corrupt on so many levels, perhaps we better speak of your “black market” instead of just market. On the otherhand we don’t want pleonasms.
Actually no, marketing is not the same as sales. Didn’t marketing have to do with the 4 p’s? Oh yes, or 5 when it’s about governmental organisations (p of personnel included). I quote it for you: “These are the four Ps: the product (the good or service), the price (what the consumer pays), the place (the location where a product is marketed), and promotion (the advertising).”
“Sales” is controlled by marketing; “importer”, yeah, there is such thing as import marketing; distributor, yeah, is actually one of the 4 p’s (the description I quoted is hmm, so so; actually distribution falls under ‘place’).
Actually marketing is about what makes this world go round. Interesting subject actually.
No, you’re not done, you’re almost done. We still don’t invest in crypto. I worked at an options exchange (the famous EOE in fact, wowy huh) when I was younger then you are now. And so fortunately I know what an option is. Like I explained somewhere before here, we knew a lot about this pandemic before it happened. Which ment you don’t always have to be a prophet to foresee the future. So we bought a whole bunch of put options. Fyi I quote what a ‘put’ means: a contract giving the option buyer the right, but not the obligation, to sell—or sell short—a specified amount of an underlying security at a predetermined price within a specified time frame. This predetermined price at which the buyer of the put option can sell the underlying security is called the strike price.
Put options are traded on various underlying assets, including stocks. So we bet against the index (of the stock exchange).
In short, the market fell very sharply in March 2020 as we expected it to. Now I buy Rolls Royces in whatever quantities I want. Ah well, not just because of 2020; we’ve been in that business for a while. But I still ride my bycicle.
Actually it’s not that difficult to become a billionair nowadays. Just know what you’re doing. As does Gates our phylantropist ‘market maker’.
And yet you bother to comment here….I think I hear the white coats coming.
@Rob
“Are you seriously saying Ivermectin and HCQ (the gun to get ZINC into your cell so virus can’t replicate) don’t work on covid today? With countries using it (see japan etc) massively seeing cases drop to nothing? Health minister of Japan now says give ivermectin to everyone now…LOL. Joe Rogan interview with Dr San jay […]
So the 2 month trials of pfizer was released, so that data I will ignore, because Orac says its misinformation. if though 8 people in the 2 month trial caught covid after getting the shot, but yet we are to believe when we told after this trial, the vaccine will give you immunity from Covid and stop the spread. now we know that is not true obviously and the head of pfizer just recently promoting a new vaccine the 4th shot will be different this time because the first 2 shots did little or nothing that is his words. So we will ignore the harm caused to the parcipants in the trials, and ignore the 60 time more soccer players having heart issues, no other year in history.
2020 225,000 covid deaths without vaccine
2021 600,000 with vaccines that are safe with no side effect
also while was the definition of vaccine changed? immunity was removed, maybe so they won’t lose EUA.
facts matters, science matter, data matter people been preaching it and now don’t want they data to show.
now Fauci and Rochelle are trying to somehow say those deaths are for other reasons not covid 4 or more comorbidites, so are they saying covid is not the reason for death and we shouldnt fear it?”
Like I said: “We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
“Ivermectin is not endorsed by the Japanese government,” Kosuke Yasukawa, who is a physician at Medstar Washington Hospital Center and an assistant professor of clinical medicine at Georgetown University School of Medicine
See also “Approved Medical Products for COVID-19” from Japan’s Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices Agency: https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html
Ivermectin has nearly 300 drug interactions … cannot be taken by people on blood thinners (eliminating many elderly patients) … and when taken prophilactically on a continuing basis), destroys reproductive organs: See also: Pathological studies on effects of ivermectin on male and female rabbits (Benha University 2017)
The last thing Japan needs is a lower birthrate.
Clinical trials did not consider spread of virus. Follow up studies did,
Clinical trials did not claim that vaccines prevent COVID (100% efficiency). Number was 95%. Do you understand difference between 95% change to win and 0% win ? Where would you put your money ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“There are money to be made in generics, too:
It sell generics.”
– Yeah yeah of course, but not really.
“As for Gates, you could check for instance Pfizer’s shareholders:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PFE/holders?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHXEENXTDtvFiAFS3b2RdNp-GgnWK-wgxloehPuvw1sSF3SAIQGNv6kF9Q8mQzGahzUWoPqm9YfcwfRR24KTeE0SKaJa8AaSzZ-zyRHfy1fmP4_p5uaekOknqXvFqjfd5nIUVv39M06pPyvGNbryLBbwoLjB2Bld6ho-asEdbZBm
As usual, it is institutional investors.”
– Thanks, I’m aware. Soon it will be charts all day again.
The uncomfortable thing is that some of the wealthy owners of the companies mentioned in that link happen to be linked to the pandemic. But enough said, we’ll just wait for the chaos to come. At least that’s what we consider likely. Privilege to be old now, not good when young.
I wait you reveal some names, but this is as unprobably than erupting chaos
@Aarno Syvänen
“Soccer players ? Name one.”
Just one? Sergio Aguero.
Here you have a list: https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/01/15/2021-footballer-deaths-increased-by-300-percent/
Is it possible many high-profile deaths are a result of long-Covid infection rather than the vaccine? Many of the side-effects Dr. Malone accuses the vaccines of having (cardiomyopathies) have been shown 8x more likely in recovering Covid patients. During a pandemic, a 300% increase in deaths of young, healthy individuals wouldn’t be out of the question. 300% is like normally 1 out of 100 people die, but during a pandemic 3 out of 100 people die. Just a thought – since many otherwise healthy people never report being sick after being infected – yet the damage is there but there’s no way to determine if they were previously infected with the disease.
@Aarno Syvänen
“”Based on your statistics, who would and who wouldn’t you vaccinate?””
“Very obvious. Use your brains.”
This time you can use yours.
So why don’t you answer the question? Conflict of interest?
I assure you that I do not have conflict of interest. Based on statistics I presented, everyone should be vaccinated. There is, of course medical exemptions
Lucas, you seem to have not learnt anything at all about how viruses spread.
The only other way to make sense of your comment is to assume that you think that those who cannot be vaccinated, or will have a bad case of covid, are expendable. What other reason could here be for you to support deliberately refusing to do everything you can to reduce the spread?
Is it possible, Dr. Malone is grifting to become a star expert witness in upcoming vaccine-related class action lawsuits? It could mean 10’s of millions $$$ for him if he were retained (win or lose – wouldn’t matter). They may not be able to sue the manufacturers – but they could go after companies with mandates, individual doctors or pharmacies distributing the jabs.
I can see that as a distinct possibility.
One of the alt med grifters I survey has mentioned class action lawsuits and is currently hiring young, idealistic lawyers to proceed. Similarly, hints by RFK jr.
@Aarno Syvänen
“So you are saying that a pharmaceutical company would never hike prices, even if demand goes up?”
Of course it can, mostly a matter of supply and demand.
But if you have a patent for some drug that’s in demand, that’s where the real profit lies. Often these drugs are made by several companies, however in license.
Interesting thing is that Merck & Pfizer actually tested ivermectin and found that it is not working, and after that started studying antivirals. They probably considered patent extender:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreening
@prl
“If India goes vax
There’s no “if”. India “went vax” some time ago, and now has the second-largest number of people vaccinated, fully or partially, of any country in the world, after China. They have 65% with some vaccination protection, 47% fully vaccinated.”
You are right. Very recently indeed, so forget the “if”. And let’s see of the country is better served with its Astra Zeneca.
Lucas:
India started its COVID vaccination program in January 2021: one month after Israel started theirs.
@Connor Davis
“Is it possible many high-profile deaths are a result of long-Covid infection rather than the vaccine? Many of the side-effects Dr. Malone accuses the vaccines of having (cardiomyopathies) have been shown 8x more likely in recovering Covid patients. During a pandemic, a 300% increase in deaths of young, healthy individuals wouldn’t be out of the question. 300% is like normally 1 out of 100 people die, but during a pandemic 3 out of 100 people die. Just a thought – since many otherwise healthy people never report being sick after being infected – yet the damage is there but there’s no way to determine if they were previously infected with the disease.”
I don’t consider it likely, but I cannot answer your question, since I don’t have all the relevant data.
At another website on this subject I read: “Many of these heart issues and deaths come shortly after they got a COVID vaccine. While it is possible this can happen to people who did not get a COVID vaccine, the sheer numbers clearly point to the only obvious cause.” I guess the writer has his resources but hides them.
Vaccination status is not mentioned, so there is no way to know, if it COVID itself. It is known that soccer clubs have loe vaccination rate.
@connor davis
Ivermectin has nearly 300 drug interactions … cannot be taken by people on blood thinners (eliminating many elderly patients) … and when taken prophilactically on a continuing basis), destroys reproductive organs: See also: Pathological studies on effects of ivermectin on male and female rabbits (Benha University 2017)
The last thing Japan needs is a lower birthrate.
Unlike the suggestion, Ivermectine is a actually a very safe drug.
If you need to take them together, your doctor will monitor your international normalized ratio (INR). How many medicins that interact are nevertheless taken together in practice?
Please provide me with the link on IVM and its destruction of reproductive organs. Or are you talking rabbits here?
Aren’t you confusing the vaccines that can cause serious damage at the reproductive organs?
“How many medicins that interact are nevertheless taken together in practice?”
You do know that doctors have a big book containing drugs, their side effects and a list of other drugs that they shouldn’t be prescribed with or taken simultaneously don’t you?
He actually gave the citation, type it to Google Scholar. There is link for you:
https://journals.ekb.eg/article_31162_fece43fcb7398561c3fe9204335037fc.pdf
In case of COVID, bigger doses than normal are used. Safety with these doses should be examined, do you think ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“You claim India’s ministry of health is staffed with white people ? They figured all by themselves that ivermectin does not work. Kory and Senator Johnson are very white persons, too.”
Who is “all”?
Please give us the link where we can read that “they figured out that IVM does not work”. Sure you aren’t just sticking your neck out?
“All by themselves” is a phrase meaning “without any outside help” Guidelines refer to clinical research which they evaluated, indeed all by themselves. They included medications backed by research, and excluded ivermectin. They certainly would have included it, if they have thought that it works.
@Aarno Syvänen
“You would notice that shorting started after China locked down Wuhan. it was obvious then that trouble was brewing.
Shorting is a bet that people owning stock will lose money, did you know that?”
“Did you know that?” Remember you’re in my class here, Aarno.
Yes, of course “shorting is a bet that people owning stocks will lose money”. That’s why we bought PUT (not call) options. And because I expected some of you guys have no idea what a put option does, I gave the description.
Options works with a leverage. Something like turn 10 cents into €300 in an extreme case.
If you expect a strong reaction in the market, you best buy a ‘far out of the money’ option. These are often darn cheap and normally end worthless… unless some extreme event is going to happen in the short term that most don’t expect.
100.000 x 3000 is substantial if you look at the investment? And that’s not all cause as usual after everyone pressed themselves through that narrow door, they lick their wounds and start coming back. Simple psychology that you apply against your emotion.
Please read more careful, I never said that trouble wasn’t brewing, did I? What I said was that before the sharp fall in the beginning of March 2020, unlike in China, the indices in the West hardly responded. The shit hit the fan in China at an earlier date as here in the west, as investors apparently saw this an Asia related problem in the beginning, like SARS.
Perhaps you understand it better if I say shorting is a bet that Bill Gates lose money ? So this is not a Gates plot, after all.
You actually said that “they” had a plan, and shorted accordingly. This is not the case.
I know what option is, so you need not explain it to me.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Interesting thing is that Merck & Pfizer actually tested ivermectin and found that it is not working, and after that started studying antivirals. They probably considered patent extender:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreening”
Such naivity.
You missed the point . It is possible to patent combination therapy that includes ivermectin (a version of evergreening), something like Frontline doctors have. .
Neither Merck’s or Pfizer’s antiviral have any relation with ivermectin. I would have been easier to create a copycat product,if ivermectin actually works.
@Aarno Syvänen
“I assure you that I do not have conflict of interest. Based on statistics I presented, everyone should be vaccinated. There is, of course medical exemptions”
Based on what statistics? Show me the vulnerability of healthy 5 – 60 year old’s.
We showed you the risks of the vaccines.
Some dangerous person you are.
You indeed should show risk of vaccines. You have just told stories, which I answered be telling mine. Show statistics, then we can really compare numbers.
Aarno Syvänen
“This means 5500000 deaths.”
No, it would mean (8 bln / 365 =) 22 million died worldwide. So 4 times the official number (5500000).
Now isn’t this strange? 10 million as a reflection of the total population is a more then a big enough group to draw safe conclusions about the total population.
What could be wrong here? I know that my numbers are trustworthy.If so, that would mean that there is some serious underreporting going on in the world.
That’s one thing you should learn too Aarno: principly never blindly trust statistics. And certainly not when the butcher approves his own meat.
Would you mind sharing your source, then? The 5.5 million deaths that Arno cited are the number of officially confirmed deaths, but it’s widely thought that many countries, for various reasons, under-report their COVID deaths. Your 22 million cases seem to be an estimate of the excess deaths due to COVID.
The IMHE’s modelling puts the estimated total COVID deaths as of 6 Jan 2022 at 12.6-18.4 million, lower than the estimate you cite, and expressed with a great deal less certainty.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/global?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend
IMHE’s methodology page doesn’t mention any “10 mln control group worldwide”, though.
https://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths
Incidentally, Figure 2 in the IMHE’s methodology page seems to me to be a good indicator of where under-reporting of COVID deaths is occurring.
Isn’t this also assuming that every person in the world has had covid?
Assuming a 1/365 death rate?
I’ve never had covid as far as I’m aware. I suppose I could have had an asymptomatic infection though. My partner has never tested positive and neither has her step father, brother and his family. Assuming that everyone in the world has been infected is not reliable.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Of course you did not read this:
A report of a suspected ADR to the Yellow Card scheme does not necessarily
mean that it was caused by the vaccine, only that the reporter has a suspicion
it may have. Underlying or previously undiagnosed illness unrelated to vaccination
can also be factors in such reports. The relative number and nature of reports
should therefore not be used to compare the safety of the different vaccines.
All reports are kept under continual review in order to identify possible new risks.
Much like VAERS”
I already commented this to your collegue.
@NumberWang
“How many medicins that interact are nevertheless taken together in practice?”
You do know that doctors have a big book containing drugs, their side effects and a list of other drugs that they shouldn’t be prescribed with or taken simultaneously don’t you?
Of course they have. But it doesn’t change the issue.
The question is what the interaction is and if the problem can be solved or monitored when there are no (good) alternatives. And often interactions and side effects are simply ignored, even overlooked.
Dunno which doctor you’re going to. My partner’s doctor always checks to see which medications she can take in close proximity to each other. Poor interactions and side effects are always communicated and the risk/benefits discussed.
@NumberWang
“Lucas, you seem to have not learnt anything at all about how viruses spread.”
I do know. And this is how we know how to avoid getting infected.
And if despite that, one of us may ever get infected, our bodies are ready to block the virus from penetrating into our bodies as much as possible.
“The only other way to make sense of your comment is to assume that you think that those who cannot be vaccinated, or will have a bad case of covid, are expendable. What other reason could here be for you to support deliberately refusing to do everything you can to reduce the spread?”
– Like you’ve read above, just last week I helped a vulnerable (vaccinated) person at a certain risk for myself; don’t say I’m not human please. I spent much of my lifetime and money helping others, so don’t you judge me!
It’s the vaccinated that are spreading the virus like wildfire. Why? Many of the vaccinated get reinfected (they feel safe and loosen restrictions for themselves), hardly get ill, but infectuous as they are just go on with their daily business infecting others. This while an unvaccinated individual feels ill and stays in bed.
Furthermore it is only logic that it’s the vaccinated that are responsible for the mutated viruses we are experiencing (viral immune escape).
So you admit that vaccinated do not get ill ? Is this itself a good reason to vaccinate ?
Why do you think unvaccinated do not spread the disease ? What would prevent it ?They do not take any safety measures. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BLK/holdersaccinated more probably do.
Unfortunately your comment is full of assumptions.
You assume that vaccinated people are responsible for the mutated variants. However the mutations can occur in any person. I suppose that, in a highly vaccinated country, sheer percentages mean that vaccinated people could be responsible for a greater numbers. However, there haven’t been that many variants of concern going around…..
You assume that people know how to avoid getting infected. So…why aren’t they doing it then? In fact, why are we still passing on any infectious disease?
You assume an unvaccinated individual feels ill and stays in bed. Except that won’t happen if they are asymptomatic or have a very mild case or if they are confident that the homeopathic remedy they are taking will protect them or if they just believe that Covid isn’t that serious.
“just last week I helped a vulnerable (vaccinated) person at a certain risk for myself; don’t say I’m not human please. I spent much of my lifetime and money helping others, so don’t you judge me!”
Good for you. That doesn’t explain why your stance involves leaving them to fend for themselves though does it? I know it’s harsh but not advocating full vaccination means putting people at more risk. It’s as simple as that. You can argue that it’s worth it or that the gains are small or whatever but you should be honest with yourself. As an example, if you drive over the speed limit because you’re late, don’t make excuses, you are putting people’s lives at risk, admit it and decide if you are still going to do it. Everyone thinks they’re in control until they’re not.
Aarno Syvänen
“Why does other drugs approved or authorised to treat COVID do not hinder “vaccination agenda” Why every goverment in the world accept vaccination agenda ? This is very deep plot, indeed,
Actually recommendations are based on clinical research, have you ever considered this possibility?”
Indeed I think this is a very deep, carefully planned plot.
Only the biased don’t consider all possibilities.
All governments are plotting together ? Some have actually quite bad relations. US. Russia and China plotting together ?
@Aarno Syvänen
“I wait you reveal some names, but this is as unprobably than erupting chaos”
Yes, have a look at the largets holders:
Vanguard Group, Inc. (The) 459,942,303 Sep 29, 2021 8.19% 19,782,118,452
Blackrock Inc. 410,828,305 Sep 29, 2021 7.32% 17,669,725,398
You may find out what names are behind these giants and whether or not they are in any way related to our vaccines.
Vanguard
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/110515/who-are-owners-vanguard-group.asp
Blsckrock
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BLK/holders
“The man” does not exist. Biggest institutional investors have muxh more money than any billionaire.
Guess you’ve seen this before. Fits in the ‘agenda’ of creating a virus and deliberately releasing it: https://mobile.twitter.com/Orwells_Ghost_/status/1483878021010444296
@prl
“”Very recently indeed””
“India started its COVID vaccination program in January 2021: one month after Israel started theirs.”
July 2021 4% fully v.
Nov. 2021 26,9% fully v.
Jan. 2022 44% fully v.
So very recently indeed this country has a significant part of the population vaccinated. I guess it won’t take long before they will pay the same price as Israel does.
[…] a month ago by Dr. Robert “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone, who’s turned full antivax conspiracy theorists, called Defeat the […]
@prl
“Would you mind sharing your source, then? The 5.5 million deaths that Arno cited are the number of officially confirmed deaths, but it’s widely thought that many countries, for various reasons, under-report their COVID deaths. Your 22 million cases seem to be an estimate of the excess deaths due to COVID.”
The information comes from regular video updates, so you should watch the latest, there is no link to where you can read this; next you should find out how big the total groups is. However, I gave you the necessary info already. The 10 mln are people from all around the globe and is a representation of the populations in these countries. The recording of deaths due to covid is an extremely accurate bottom-up count without any politics involved. The age structure should be about the same as are in the respective countries. However, that is the only factor I’m not entirely shure of: the average age in the group may be slightly higher, I just don’t know. But then, the group has a somewhat more then average healthy lifestyle, which might compensate for that possible age factor (i.o.w.: if age is 100% representative be sure the number of Covid deaths is above 22 mln).
All in all, I wouldn’t know how to get a more accurate picture of cumulative deaths due to Covid. So, just for your information: be informed that the amount of Covid deaths is much much higher then the official number.
“The IMHE’s modelling puts the estimated total COVID deaths as of 6 Jan 2022 at 12.6-18.4 million, lower than the estimate you cite, and expressed with a great deal less certainty.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/global?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend”
Should be too low indeed.
“IMHE’s methodology page doesn’t mention any “10 mln control group worldwide”, though.
https://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths”
True, it is purely an internal affair.
Incidentally, Figure 2 in the IMHE’s methodology page seems to me to be a good indicator of where under-reporting of COVID deaths is occurring.
I will look into that.
I had Googled trying to find a page with the number of COVID deaths in a 10 million person control group and I came up with nothing. So I’m still unable to see what your source is.
I have no idea what you mean by the claimed 10 million control group being “purely an internal affair”. The names of the people in it certainly are, but the methodology shouldn’t be.
The only other source I found that had an estimate of total worldwide COVID deaths as about 22 million was on The Economist’s “The pandemic’s true death toll” page, at 22.9 million, but again that was the upper extreme of the 95% confidence range; the lower extreme was 12.2 million and the most likely value was 19.7 million. Unfortunately while the headline numbers on the page are open, the rest of the article is paywalled, so I don’t have any information about their methodology.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates
22 million total COVID deaths is probably not impossible, but I can’t see why that number from your source would be free of the uncertainties that are inherent in the other estimates that I found.
Anyway, as I said before, I agree that 5.5 million deaths from COVID is probably a serious underestimate.
So you trust YouTube videos ? I can imagine many more reliable sources.
@2Uall
Shocking statistical information for all of you!
Please open the following link (it was on YouTube but was removed; the official link in my country is impossible to open (why would that be?), but I found the video here: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c
I hope you understand German (btw I’m not German, I’m Dutch), it is about Covid side effects in Austria. But it gets really interesting with Prof. Dr. Christof Kuhbandner from 18.16 min. onwards. Look at the data he shows, partly based on these statistics that you had better study for yourself as well: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356756711_Latest_statistics_on_England_mortality_data_suggest_systematic_mis-categorisation_of_vaccine_status_and_uncertain_effectiveness_of_Covid-19_vaccination.
Professor Kuhbandner says that the data on England show that right after the various vaccination rounds you see a strong peak in mortality under the UNVACCINATED; this for the age ranges 60-69, 70-79 and 80+ (there’s not much data on the <59 (but what is there doesn’t look good for the vaccinated as well)).
Well, well, isn’t this remarkable?
The professor then analysed the situation in Germany and he made the exact same observation for that country right after each round of vaccination: again there is this mortality peak under the UNVACCINATED. He speaks of the fortunate circumstance of “den tagesgenauen Verlauf der Übersterblichkeit und den tagesgenauen Verlauf der Impfungen” in Germany. So both excess mortality and vaccination are kept track of on a daily basis.
Question: what the hell is going on?
Answer of the professor: mortality under the vaccinated until 14 days after vaccination is registered under the unvaccinated! And exactly during that period mortality (and btw side effects too) peaks.
German statistics show the exact same. Such coincidence, isn’t it?
Haven’t I told you guys so many times meanwhile to always be very sceptical on statistics that you always seem to take as a given? Well, you’re not too smart (or outright bad) if you still do.
What else does the professor show? His conclusion is that the vaccinations make an equal amount of deaths as the infections. That’s the average of those 700 deaths each day he mentiones.
Please note that we’re not talking non lethal side effects of the vaccinated here, only deaths (that’s not the long term deaths because of the vaccines).
Isn’t this criminal?
I told you before that my statistical analyses did not show any benefit of vaccination based on the English data, but you wouldn’t believe me. Now note that the non lethal side effects show the definate disadvantage of your vaccines.
These findings are completely in line with what I said before about the statistically inexplicable ‘9 cases’ and the result of the research on ‘the 66.000 group’. Only now you see how you’ve been tricked with the data you rely on. These vaccines are definately not so safe as they tell you they are; in general you’re much better off to stay unvaccinated due to not having these serious but non lethal side effects.
Conclusion of the report: “With these considerations in mind we applied adjustments to the ONS data and showed that they lead to the conclusion that the vaccines do not reduce all-cause mortality, but rather produce genuine spikes in all-cause mortality shortly after vaccination.”
You better think this through, because it seems you are on the wrong side of history defending these vaccines. I would even say that it makes you nothing less then despicable people responsible for killing and maim, certainly if you continue to defend your vaccines.
Do let us know when and if any of this gets peer-reviewed and published in a reputable journal.*
*An article surviving a couple of months without being retracted for gross errors would be a plus.
Or. Just maybe. Big vaccination drives happen when covid cases are increasing, or new variants are discovered, and these peaks prove that the vaccines work. Do you ever sense check your thinking before you post?
More covid = more death in those most susceptible and least protected.
@Aarno Syvänen
“So you trust YouTube videos ? I can imagine many more reliable sources.”
Did I mention YouTube?
I wrote “regular video updates” and that’s certainly not YouTube. The info is ment for internal use, however I gave it to you cause it’s not secret.
Regular vidoe updates under NDA even worse. You should have at lest published data.
@prl
“I had Googled trying to find a page with the number of COVID deaths in a 10 million person control group and I came up with nothing. So I’m still unable to see what your source is.
I have no idea what you mean by the claimed 10 million control group being “purely an internal affair”. The names of the people in it certainly are, but the methodology shouldn’t be.”
I mean that the information isn’t gathered for the general public, just for this group and is shared in regular video updates (not YouTube or similar). Just now I looked at the most recent update (that mention reference point of december 2021 and is more recent then the one I looked at in my previous post) and ratio in that group times the world population (it’s not exactly 10 mln, however in the calcualation I used the exact number) is now 1/339 x7.9220061000 = 23,4 mln.
So, according to the latest data there should now be around 23,4 million Covid deaths worldwide.
I don’t share my scource here, however if you’re very much interested, I may consider giving you the links in a private email.
“The only other source I found that had an estimate of total worldwide COVID deaths as about 22 million was on The Economist’s “The pandemic’s true death toll” page, at 22.9 million, but again that was the upper extreme of the 95% confidence range; the lower extreme was 12.2 million and the most likely value was 19.7 million. Unfortunately while the headline numbers on the page are open, the rest of the article is paywalled, so I don’t have any information about their methodology.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates”
Thanks, I just opened the link and the number of today is 23 million (I havent’t read the article as that’s not possible without subscribtion). Interesting cause that’s similar to my 23,4 mln. I think you can be pretty sure about that number.
“22 million total COVID deaths is probably not impossible, but I can’t see why that number from your source would be free of the uncertainties that are inherent in the other estimates that I found. Anyway, as I said before, I agree that 5.5 million deaths from COVID is probably a serious underestimate.”
Yeah, so meanwhile 23,4 million. And it is not an estimate and as such there are no uncertainties; it’s the actual numbers from a bottom-up count and then gathered from all over the world (that will be like a 100,000 locations worldwide). You cannot get more reliable info.
No, “the number” in the Economist page isn’t 23 million. The Economist page gives 3 numbers, the upper and lower bounds of the 95% confidence interval (23 million and 12.3 million respectively) and the most likely value, 19.8 million. If you want to quote a single value from those, then 19.8 million is the appropriate one.
I remain unimpressed by data from unnamed sources with no information about methodology that claim to have zero error (they certainly have sampling error, that’s unavoidable), and I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make with that data.
@NumberWang
“Isn’t this also assuming that every person in the world has had covid?
Assuming a 1/365 death rate?
I’ve never had covid as far as I’m aware. I suppose I could have had an asymptomatic infection though. My partner has never tested positive and neither has her step father, brother and his family. Assuming that everyone in the world has been infected is not reliable.”
See comment @PRL: latest data show 1/339 death rate.
I’m sorry I didn’t take the latest update, but here you are.
Just like you I don’t know either. In March 2020 I felt a bit ill for about two months with a bit of dry cough. I felt worse when I had too much activity. I have no idea whether that was Covid or not; there were no tests then.
@NumberWang
@NumberWang “How many medicins that interact are nevertheless taken together in practice?” You do know that doctors have a big book containing drugs, their side effects and a list of other drugs that they shouldn’t be prescribed with or taken simultaneously don’t you? Of course they have. But it doesn’t change the issue. The question […]
“Dunno which doctor you’re going to. My partner’s doctor always checks to see which medications she can take in close proximity to each other. Poor interactions and side effects are always communicated and the risk/benefits discussed.”
The world isn’t that black or white. Sometimes the options aren’t even there.
I give you an example of someone who uses both Lamectal and Vimpat that her neurologist prescribes without reservation.
Here you read about interactions: https://www.ehealthme.com/drug-interaction/vimpat/lamictal/
I repeat!
“Poor interactions and side effects are always communicated and the risk/benefits discussed”
@Aarno Syvänen
@Aarno Syvänen “Interesting thing is that Merck & Pfizer actually tested ivermectin and found that it is not working, and after that started studying antivirals. They probably considered patent extender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreening” Such naivity.
You missed the point . It is possible to patent combination therapy that includes ivermectin (a version of evergreening), something like Frontline doctors have. .
Neither Merck’s or Pfizer’s antiviral have any relation with ivermectin. I would have been easier to create a copycat product,if ivermectin actually works.
Firstly you are not right: Merck is the largest manufacturer of IVM. So Merck wouldn’t even need a copycat product.
I understand your point about combination therapy. Question remains does IVM work as promoted by Frontline doctors or not. If not, what forces are at play that prevent the drug from being used to battle Covid. I already answered that question.
I would advice you to not blindly believe the claim that Merck & Pfizer actually tested ivermectin and found that it is not working. Better wake up in a world of lies.
At Merck’s website you read the following on IVM (https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/):
“It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:
– No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
– No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
– A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.”
Now Aarno, it is time for you to start reading more careful and above all more critical, as I’ve often noticed this is one of your weak points. If you read those lines, is there still no bell ringing? You’re not stupid, so don’t act like that.
Now, instead of me interpreting these lines, it’s your time. Tell me, what’s your conclusion – why not include some research on the claims – and why and I will get back to you.
@NumerWang
“Unfortunately your comment is full of assumptions.
You assume that vaccinated people are responsible for the mutated variants. However the mutations can occur in any person. I suppose that, in a highly vaccinated country, sheer percentages mean that vaccinated people could be responsible for a greater numbers. However, there haven’t been that many variants of concern going around…..”
– Indeed mutations can occur in any person, but the chance of occurring in the vaccinated of course is so much higher.
I quote: “Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts. https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198&type=printable
Since the vaccination of the population we have certainly seen several variants of concern.
You assume that people know how to avoid getting infected. So…why aren’t they doing it then? In fact, why are we still passing on any infectious disease?
– Because of stupidity and above all unwillingness. Wear an FFP2 mask in shop or hospital, keep your distance always and for the rest do not come together in inside environments at all. That’s about it and your done.
You assume an unvaccinated individual feels ill and stays in bed. Except that won’t happen if they are asymptomatic or have a very mild case or if they are confident that the homeopathic remedy they are taking will protect them or if they just believe that Covid isn’t that serious.
– True, but you’re talking exceptions. An unvaccinated individual in general will feel more ill then a vaccinated. Therefore the one more dangerous to society is the vaccinated. People do not listen when they’re told to stay home when infected; only if they feel awful they will.
“”just last week I helped a vulnerable (vaccinated) person at a certain risk for myself; don’t say I’m not human please. I spent much of my lifetime and money helping others, so don’t you judge me!”
Good for you. That doesn’t explain why your stance involves leaving them to fend for themselves though does it? I know it’s harsh but not advocating full vaccination means putting people at more risk. It’s as simple as that. You can argue that it’s worth it or that the gains are small or whatever but you should be honest with yourself. As an example, if you drive over the speed limit because you’re late, don’t make excuses, you are putting people’s lives at risk, admit it and decide if you are still going to do it. Everyone thinks they’re in control until they’re not.”
– I disagree. First off the man in question wanted to get his booster and called me about it before; I told him if he has a good feeling about it (like he said) he should get his. But one week before he was to get his booster, he got ill. And in his case that means real danger. Physicians do nothing before you end up in hospital.
Normally I wouldn’t give anyone IVM, only to relatives.
In general only the vulnerable might perhaps get vaccinated (I would prefer prophylactic treatment and if ill a continuation and expansion with other drugs depending on the phase of illness), the rest of the population certainly should not. It’s criminal to vaccinate people that don’t need it, given the risk of death and side effects. And because of the higher risk of viral immune escape, so that we end up with far more deaths then we would otherwise. Of course you should not vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic and most certainly not with non sterylising vaccines. That it’s done anyway does that not make you think that this pandemic is planned to go wrong?
“It’s criminal to vaccinate people that don’t need it, given the risk of death and side effects”
What is the risk of death per dose of Covid vaccine?
What is the risk of a serious side effect per dose of Covid vaccine?
Around five billion people have had at least one dose of vaccine. Should be plenty of studies showing excess deaths and plenty of wards full of crippled victims eh? Not sure where they are hiding them.
@NumberWang
“”I repeat!
“Poor interactions and side effects are always communicated and the risk/benefits discussed””
Interactions? Actually no. Not in this country. Certainly not.
Risk/benefits in general are. Partly. But do you really think that these physicians take the time to go through the list with possible side effects? No way, they don’t.
Sorry. You’re simply wrong. Unless you’d like to claim that the Netherlands has a poor health service? I’m in the UK and I guarantee you that all of my partner’s medications were fully discussed. Even the timings of when conflicting meds could be taken was looked at to avoid interactions as much as humanly possible.
@Aarno Syvänen
“So you admit that vaccinated do not get ill ? Is this itself a good reason to vaccinate ?
Why do you think unvaccinated do not spread the disease ? What would prevent it ?They do not take any safety measures. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BLK/holdersaccinated more probably do.”
No generalisations please. Look at Israel now, boostered to the roof but their hospitals are having a busy time. Mostly with vaccinated people.
With Delta it was more likely to have a reasonable protection as a vaccinated for a while. And indeed, we did notice people having a sniffle while infected, doing whatever they had in mind to do.
I never said that unvaccinated do not spread the disease. But if they’re ill they’re more likely to stay at home feeling miserable. However, this often does not apply to the young, and they form a similar problem as the vaccinated when not feeling really sick when infected.
@Aarno Syvänen
“All governments are plotting together? Some have actually quite bad relations. US. Russia and China plotting together?”
– I don’t know an involvement of Russia, perhaps so. Answer to your question is that this is indeed possible. But it will be a long story to clarify the underlying mechanism. Perhaps in another context I may try and explain. Telling you in short would be useless, so I don’t.
@Aarno Syvänen
@Aarno Syvänen “I wait you reveal some names, but this is as unprobably than erupting chaos” Yes, have a look at the largets holders: Vanguard Group, Inc. (The) 459,942,303 Sep 29, 2021 8.19% 19,782,118,452 Blackrock Inc. 410,828,305 Sep 29, 2021 7.32% 17,669,725,398 You may find out what names are behind these giants and whether or […]
Vanguard
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/110515/who-are-owners-vanguard-group.asp
Blsckrock
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BLK/holders
“The man” does not exist. Biggest institutional investors have muxh more money than any billionaire.”
It’s not that difficult to find names behind such companies, and certainly we recognize certain people in the game. But there’s no head to cut off. It is a conglomerate (private and corporate) that I think the members don’t even need to come together to come up with their barbaric plans for our future. Nevertheless they’re wise, act in the same tune and their actions have been going on for a long period. Some of the outcome you should meanwhile be able to put your finger on.
I would say first you should be able to recognize evil and admit that it exists. Then it’s time you find out what entities are behind it. Otherwise you will never understand the ‘why’. I think from your perspective, you will never find out because of your mental legacy; or be it at a very late point in time. But who knows. Btw, most people are string puppets that never look up.
One possibility to find out if and what is going on is to just read conspiracy theories. There’s enough out there. Most is nonsense, but some are actually correct. Just think through what they confront you with and make up your own mind. Track the data these websites give you in order to find out if it’s information. Acceptance comes natural when you have proof and eventually you may start seeing things in perspective. This way you probably will not find the ‘why’ but you should find the ‘what’. Many sensitive people have some ‘twilight’ feeling already, but don’t know the ‘why’ and thus are anxious.
“but this is as unprobably than erupting chaos”
– I can imagine you think there will not be (more) chaos, but I assure you that you will be confronted with it. It will be tough and in the end deadly for many. It is a matter of time. Be aware of the so called solution when things seem really to go out of hand, cause what follows is not good at all. In the end you’ll see it is self destruction.
I can imagine this all sounds cryptic, but it’s useless to say directly, so I don’t.
@NumberWang
“It’s criminal to vaccinate people that don’t need it, given the risk of death and side effects”
What is the risk of death per dose of Covid vaccine?”
Apparently about the same as dying from Covid. See my post of January 21, 2022 at 7:56 pm
You are misled NumberWang, statistics show this clearly. Like I wrote “mortality under the vaccinated until 14 days after vaccination is registered under the unvaccinated! And exactly during that period mortality (and btw side effects too) peaks. [Besides English also] German statistics show the exact same.
I already knew your databases were way of because of my own finding about the statistically inexplicable ‘9 [7 serious] cases’ and the result of the research on ‘the 66.000 group’. Also a nearby nursing home waved a red flag for me, as after each vaccination round many people died and so many others went to hospital. I verified it there and it was admitted.
Anyway, open the link and look at the data. Then report back if you like.
All in all the risk of dying from the vaccination is much much higher then what the statistics you rely on, show! You are being cheated on but you prefer to stay in your bubble of lies? Strange. Why is that?
“What is the risk of a serious side effect per dose of Covid vaccine?
Around five billion people have had at least one dose of vaccine. Should be plenty of studies showing excess deaths and plenty of wards full of crippled victims eh? Not sure where they are hiding them.”
Yes, we have the excess deaths and it’s shocking. But I don’t know what is the exact risk of a serious side effect. I do know it’s much higher then what your databases say it is. It must be (substantially) more then 1:16,500 as in the large control group mentioned the 65+ group is not involved. Furthermore I described the 7 serious cases here. Statistically it is as good as impossible that this is merely an exception. I would have to make a guess of the underlying group, that’s the difficult part, but it’s not extremely large of course.
@prl
“No, “the number” in the Economist page isn’t 23 million. The Economist page gives 3 numbers, the upper and lower bounds of the 95% confidence interval (23 million and 12.3 million respectively) and the most likely value, 19.8 million. If you want to quote a single value from those, then 19.8 million is the appropriate one.
I remain unimpressed by data from unnamed sources with no information about methodology that claim to have zero error (they certainly have sampling error, that’s unavoidable), and I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make with that data.”
I did not say that 23 million is “the number” in the Economist page. When I said “the number of today is 23 million” I ment that your 22,9 mln was already outdated and is now 23 mln, nothing more or less then that.
And without reading the text, I understood the 23 mln was a theoraticly possible outcome. All I said then was that that number is remarkably close to my 23,4.
All I can say is that from my point of view you can be sure that that is the correct number. Simply because I have the only reliable source. Of course that staement has no scientific value for you unless you have the source. See it as a FYI.
If it is of great importance to you I might give you the source’s links in a private email.
“and I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make with that data.”
Look prl, let me make it clear that I’m not here to defend whatever point of view, be it motivated because of leftist thinking – that many here suffer from – or commercial interests. So I can see that question mark what would the underlying motivation to give such a high number of Covid deaths. It may perhaps even seem to undermine some of my arguements. Well, I don’t care. It’s the way it is.
@Dangerous Bacon
“”@2Uall Shocking statistical information for all of you! Please open the following link (it was on YouTube but was removed; the official link in my country is impossible to open (why would that be?), but I found the video here: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c I hope you understand German (btw I’m not German, I’m Dutch), it is about”” […]
“Do let us know when and if any of this gets peer-reviewed and published in a reputable journal.*
*An article surviving a couple of months without being retracted for gross errors would be a plus.”
Researchgate.net certainly is a reputable source. What do you mean?
Furthermore, there is no such thing as peer-reviewing these statistics.
You cannot walk away from the statistical findings, they are what they are. And what happens is clear but ouright disturbing: Covid deaths during the peak period after vaccination are registered under the unvaccinated group. Do you want to argue over that? Then go ahead, I’m listening.
It’s a damn dirty world and people seem to want to be deceived; that’s what this is.
@NumberWang
@NumberWang “”I repeat! “Poor interactions and side effects are always communicated and the risk/benefits discussed”” Interactions? Actually no. Not in this country. Certainly not. Risk/benefits in general are. Partly. But do you really think that these physicians take the time to go through the list with possible side effects? No way, they don’t.
Sorry. You’re simply wrong. Unless you’d like to claim that the Netherlands has a poor health service? I’m in the UK and I guarantee you that all of my partner’s medications were fully discussed. Even the timings of when conflicting meds could be taken was looked at to avoid interactions as much as humanly possible.
Apparently we have a poor health service. Which btw is a fact because of endless cuts. On the other hand I can hardly imagine that your docter is going through these large lists with side effects, of which most hardly have any meaning to you.
Really? You’re telling me what MY experience with my partner’s health concerns has been?
@Aarno Syvänen
““So you trust YouTube videos ? I can imagine many more reliable sources.” Did I mention YouTube? I wrote “regular video updates” and that’s certainly not YouTube. The info is ment for internal use, however I gave it to you cause it’s not secret.””
“Regular vidoe updates under NDA even worse. You should have at lest published data.”
NDA stand(s) for?
Agree that you should have published data. But I simply haven’t got them published. For me however this is about truth finding and for you to consider or disregard it. I just shared it with you as I though it might be of interest.
So many people know the secret. You could use public to calculate the estimate, or the estimate mrntioned by prl.
@NumberWang
“”@2Uall Shocking statistical information for all of you! Please open the following link (it was on YouTube but was removed; the official link in my country is impossible to open (why would that be?), but I found the video here: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c I hope you understand German (btw I’m not German, I’m Dutch), it is about”” […]
“Or. Just maybe. Big vaccination drives happen when covid cases are increasing, or new variants are discovered, and these peaks prove that the vaccines work. Do you ever sense check your thinking before you post?
More covid = more death in those most susceptible and least protected.”
It’s you that should have done sense checking. Have you looked at the curves? They show relevance only during about two weeks after each vaccination round. The argument doesn’t make sense. Fine if “covid cases are increasing”, but never they rise with a peak after a week and then as good as disappear in the next. Have a look too at week 4 where the 80+ group spikes, week 7 the 70-79 group spikes and week 12 the 60-69 group spikes. What you’re suggesting is that the same pandemic hits the different age groups at different moments?
And yes, if you do statistics you always check. Not for sense, but for avoiding errors.
You can exclude the errors here and that leaves us to discuss the ‘sense’. In other words: what the hell happens here is the question these statisticians asked themselves.
Then it became clear about the 14 days period that deaths were recorded in the unvaccinated.
Obviously we are being lied to. And I already said here that we were, because of other analyses. But it seems no one here wants to hear anything that goes against their narrative.
Now what are you going to do? Investigate and discuss the matter further? And then, do you make up your mind about these vaccines?
If you look at the number of deaths at the Y-axis you see that with age the numbers increase exponentially. Of course these statistics are not faked for nothing, there is a reason to do so. Would that be to get rid of the older part of population (first)?
You should really be able to tell me where I’m wrong here, cause if you can’t and you keep defending apparent murderous vaccines, I would say it’s time for a personality analysys. All the time there is walking away from results you don’t seem to like. Why is that?
By what means are you prepared to reach your goal in life?
No it is that vaccination spread COVID ? It cannot be, it is not a live vaccine. Youy have been lied.
Do you know that there are many follow up studies, not fonanced by big pharma and done in many countiries ? This is better than reading worldometer plota.
Irrelevant Lucas. No matter what the graph says, your conclusion that the figures must have been swapped between vaccinated and unvaccinated has no evidence. Just your already biased opinion. I wouldn’t trust that analysis anyway, without confirmation, since it was carried out by people from a school of electrical engineering and computer science.
Neither they nor you have the knowledge or experience to produce a believable conclusion.
@Aarno Syvänen
“”You would notice that shorting started after China locked down Wuhan. it was obvious then that trouble was brewing. Shorting is a bet that people owning stock will lose money, did you know that?” “Did you know that?” Remember you’re in my class here, Aarno. Yes, of course “shorting is a bet that”” […]
“Perhaps you understand it better if I say shorting is a bet that Bill Gates lose money ? So this is not a Gates plot, after all.
You actually said that “they” had a plan, and shorted accordingly. This is not the case.
I know what option is, so you need not explain it to me.”
Gates made a fortune since the pandemic in a market he co-constructed. I already wrote how that worked to F68.10.
Please read back or better: find out yourself.
He was just one of the people / organisations we’ve been tracking for long; for sure these people are no phylantropists, so if they act like one you should find out what the real intentions are. It became clear he is a serpent in a club of serpents: preparing and launching a pandemic in order to sell vaccines and above all, get people in suppression mode.
And as I cannot understand otherwise: get rid of people and let them pay for it themselves. Like I said: evil.
Because of all data we acquired, we shorted against our index and profited from the mess that was created and then hyped by the(ir) media. Gates started making money because Big Pharma he invested in before the pandemic would now become filthy rich, as indeed has happened. Not that he was the only one.
It’s my believe that most people here, you included, are in the same camp as are these mass murderers. Which means you are as self destructive as they are: it will kill them and it will you. You always ask me why, what for, what is the profit; you tell me, what is there to gain for you? I hope you at least have some clue why you do this to yourself.
It still a fsct that Gates losed money when people thought that pandemic would be really bad. Markets turned, when peoiple decided that they can live with it.
You of course have no evidence that Gates “created the market”.
@NumberWang
“Really? You’re telling me what MY experience with my partner’s health concerns has been?”
Please read more careful, these were my words: “Apparently we have a poor health service. Which btw is a fact because of endless cuts. On the other hand I can hardly imagine that your docter is going through these large lists with side effects, of which most hardly have any meaning to you.”
“I can hardly imagine” is not the same as denying what you said.
Why a docter would get the leaflet from a medicine and talk about the many possible side effects, out of which most are mentioned just as a cover, I wouldn’t know. But hey, possibly your docters have all time in the world, here they don’t. Sooo: not denying, just hardly imaginable; but what useless discussion is this anyway?
That could apply to your entire input here.
Against my better judgement, let me just say I’ve already answered your questions. So go ahead, stamp your little feet in rage. I really don’t give a damn.
Aarno Syvänen commented on Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist.
in response to Lucas:
@Aarno Syvänen “You claim India’s ministry of health is staffed with white people ? They figured all by themselves that ivermectin does not work. Kory and Senator Johnson are very white persons, too.” Who is “all”? Please give us the link where we can read that “they figured out that IVM does not work”. Sure […]
“All by themselves” is a phrase meaning “without any outside help” Guidelines refer to clinical research which they evaluated, indeed all by themselves. They included medications backed by research, and excluded ivermectin. They certainly would have included it, if they have thought that it works.
“All by themselves” was not my phrase, I’m sorry.
However, I would still like to recieve that link. So?
“They certainly would have included it, if they have thought that it works.”
– And again you go wrong. In an ideal world you’d be right. But welcome in a corrupt, mendacious environment.
No Aarno, it doesn’t matter whether or not ‘they’ saw with their own eyes that IVM worked in their country.
At Jan. 19th I posted to you:
“Don’t forget there is an overarching underlying agenda to vaccinate (which was there before the pandemic). We’ve discussed this before here and you can find that out for yourself if you visit the websites mentioned. Ivermectine gets in the way of vaccinating the population. And I’m sure there wouldn’t have been such thing as an emergency use for these vaccines in the first place if admittedly IVM works. That would have destroyed the plans behind vaccinenes, which is control.
That explains the hate speech when the subject is IVM.”
So India’s goverment is a part of the plot ? Actually they listed medications that aare supported by clinical ,and ivermectin was not. Simple, is it not ?
Thia vaccination agenda is really global. Easiest explanation is that goverments think that vaccines work.
@Aarno Syvänen
@connor davis Ivermectin has nearly 300 drug interactions … cannot be taken by people on blood thinners (eliminating many elderly patients) … and when taken prophilactically on a continuing basis), destroys reproductive organs: See also: Pathological studies on effects of ivermectin on male and female rabbits (Benha University 2017) The last thing Japan needs is […]
He actually gave the citation, type it to Google Scholar. There is link for you:
Click to access article_31162_fece43fcb7398561c3fe9204335037fc.pdf
In case of COVID, bigger doses than normal are used. Safety with these doses should be examined, do you think ?
Such crap you write!
Where do you read that such doses are subscribed by what physician? Go to FLCCC and see what doses are recommended.
You are just parroting main stream media BS.
If anyone feels like taking an overdose of sleeping pills because he or she has trouble sleeping, he or she may die. So? Are we now criminalising the use of sleeping pills because some cannot read the label?
Like I said: IVM is a very safe drug with a track record of billions of usage. Actually one of the safest drugs out there. No matter the list with possible side effects. If you use IVM and during the time you do you get pain in your middle finger of your right arm, possibly you see that too as a possible side effect in the instructions, just to avoid liability.
This mainstream BS is interesting. Why do you think that mainstream cannot be right ?
There are many meta analysis about ivermectin. Do you know them ?
@Aarno Syvänen
@Connor Davis “Is it possible many high-profile deaths are a result of long-Covid infection rather than the vaccine? Many of the side-effects Dr. Malone accuses the vaccines of having (cardiomyopathies) have been shown 8x more likely in recovering Covid patients. During a pandemic, a 300% increase in deaths of young, healthy individuals wouldn’t be out […]
“Vaccination status is not mentioned, so there is no way to know, if it COVID itself. It is known that soccer clubs have loe vaccination rate.”
– Source?
From what I’ve read soccer clubs are NOT known to have low vaccination rates and certainly not related to age. Here is some info from a Ducth website that suggests a very high vaccination rate:
“In de Premier League hebben 68 procent van alle spelers een dubbele prik gehad. 81 procent heeft één prik gehad. Ter vergelijking: in de Ligue 1 is 95% dubbel gevaccineerd, in de Bundesliga 94 procent, in La Liga 92,8 procent en in de Seria A 98 procent.”
Have you read all articles about athletes trying to avoid vaccination ?
https://news.yahoo.com/england-face-six-nations-problems-133543596.html
Let us see who remains
Aarno Syvänen commented on Dr. Robert Malone goes full antivaccine conspiracist.
in response to Lucas:
@Aarno Syvänen “I assure you that I do not have conflict of interest. Based on statistics I presented, everyone should be vaccinated. There is, of course medical exemptions” Based on what statistics? Show me the vulnerability of healthy 5 – 60 year old’s. We showed you the risks of the vaccines. Some dangerous person you […]
You indeed should show risk of vaccines. You have just told stories, which I answered be telling mine. Show statistics, then we can really compare numbers.
You’re full of BS Aarno.
Now, show me the vulnerability of healthy 5 – 60 year old’s; you want to jab them all. So provide the basis for that.
And you still have not provided any statistics. It is simple: number of myocarditis cases caused by COVID vaccines. A simple number. a short seller should be capable to produce nu,bers.
Actually, ACIP does these things. Check their website.
[…] the one lamenting the “defenstration of Dr. Robert Malone” (who, recall, has gone full antivax lately and was a headliner at the antivax confab yesterday), the one portraying the […]
@TBruce
“That could apply to your entire input here.
Against my better judgement, let me just say I’ve already answered your questions. So go ahead, stamp your little feet in rage. I really don’t give a damn.”
Denigration is pure sport for Narcissists – Dr. George Simon
@JustaTech, @Orac
““Have you ever verified the results of your post-marketing surveillance and those ‘other databases’?”
No. I do not have the credentials or the research program needed to access those databases. I don’t do vaccine research. I have a public health degree (which is how I know about these databases) but I don’t do vaccine research so I can’t access those databases because they contain private health information that is not (and should never) be released to the general public.
As a side note: do you have any idea of the time required to “verify” every single entry in all of those databases? There is a reason that whole departments work on these projects – they are huge.””
So we don’t have that access but nevertheless blindly trust these databases?
I would perhaps agree that we should in a normal setting. However, literally everything from the beginning of this pandemic isn’t normal. It was all so out of the ordinary that it should have rang a bell for all of us. And with your experience in the medical field the more so.
Then I brought up these too many cases of side effects here in my area to be statistically irrelevant. Or what about these 4 severe side effects out of this 66,000 control group I mentioned; 1:16.500 is not what I see in the official databases. As I said, this 1:16,500 had to be much worse as related to our population, because the control group had a much more healthy then average lifestyle ánd more relevant, it didn’t include the 65+. That’s why I disussed my objections extensively here.
Just some days ago I found out that I was right in my analysys. British Statisticians show at http://www.researchgate.net very concerning spikes in deaths following immediatly after each vaccination round. The deceit behind it appears to be that these deaths – that mainly occur during 14 days after vaccination – is counted in the unvaccinated during exactly that 14 day period.
The German professor mentioned before, has meanwhile analysed the situation in many other countries next to England. With the same phenomenon everywhere as a result.
So here we are, without a doubt being deceived severely.
We have a situation that per day thousands of people die without anyone being aware that this is due to the vaccines, the professor of Psycholgy says (see link). Translated into English he continues that “with this causal correlation we are in a really extreme alarming situation. With likely thousands of people dying each day that could be prevented.”
How would you describe this JustaTech? The biggest and deadliest scam in history?
These vaccines apparently do not save lives, according to the professor. They cost lives as many as from the infection itself. However, the side effects these vaccine cause and the unknown effects for the years to follow is what makes them far worse compared to if the population would not have been vaccinated at all. And this aside from the viral escape in the vaccinated.
These vaccines have actually turned out to be plain horror for many. It has just been hidden for us for so long. Amazingly evil, isn’t it?
“Nope. I have no idea who you are or where you live. I know nothing about the underlying medical conditions of the people in your region. For all I know you live next to a clinic that treats people with serious autoimmune disorders. Or unusual genetic disorders.
I also don’t know how many people you talked to who had no reaction to their COVID vaccination. Or whose reaction was in line with what we were told to expect (injection site soreness, fever, aches, tiredness).
I (and you) also don’t know how many of these people may or may not have had COVID. If a person caught COVID the day before their vaccination they would likely blame their COVID symptoms on the vaccine, even if that was not correct.”
In The Netherlands. Of the people I know there were no underlying medical conditions except for one with a lot of overweight and diabetes. Of some of the victims I have no background, I guess two of them have a high age, should ask that.
I don’t live next to a clinic, no autoimmune disorders, no unusual genetic disorders previously known.
Most here didn’t have an unusual reaction to the vaccine, otherwise I would have heard of that.
One woman was jabbed a week before she got Covid. She is the one with the fatigue and the neurologic disorder in her right leg; she is my neighbour.
“Again: I am not saying that these people are lying. I am saying that you’re not seeing the whole picture.”
I did see a big enough picture to state that your databases are way off. Now you know why that is. We are misled.
Feel free to comment.
“Feel free to comment.”
My my, aren’t we impressed with ourselves, Lucas?
I have been more than polite with you, given you the benefit of the doubt, and frankly, you’re just plain wrong.
You are trying to claim that the entire world is in on some kind of conspiracy about COVID vaccines, and only you and this small group of doctors know about it. This claim can be rejected on its face as absurd. There is a reason that “three can keep a secret if two of them are dead” is an aphorism – people are terrible about keeping secrets. And the idea that many mutually antagonistic governments would want to and succeed at keeping a secret of this order is patently absurd.
Everything you say is absurd and unbelievable. You can’t even see when you prove my point about not knowing the underlying medical condition of the people you talked to (all of whom I am now certain are figments of your imagination).
I could try to do a point-by-point rebuttal of your comment but there simply isn’t any point. You are making up stuff, which is always easier than finding actual citations.
So I will leave you with this, you Flying Dutchman – Lucas, you are bad at the internet. Use the reply button! Put quotes around other people’s comments that you are responding to in your comment. Failing to do so at best leaves your comments unreadable, and at worst is blatant and boring manipulation.
This is why I quit replying to him. No point wasting time on disingenuous, absurdist baloney.
@Aarno Syvänen
“So many people know the secret. You could use public to calculate the estimate, or the estimate mrntioned by prl.”
I guess no one else has the real number, how could he or she possibly? Based on what?
Deaths are one officially reported, or estimated. Certainly better than some secret numbers.
There was a row about reporting COVID deaths. Perhaps you refer this.
Aarno Syvänen
“It still a fsct that Gates losed money when people thought that pandemic would be really bad. Markets turned, when peoiple decided that they can live with it.
You of course have no evidence that Gates “created the market”.”
– These people are wise enough to not sell during a downturn, that’s for the stupido’s. Instead they buy or do nothing. And the net effect is huge gain; that’s how to get rich in stocks and stuff. Remember I quoted the 62% increase of wealth as a result of the pandemic?
Any big disaster means that stock holders are losing. Fermenting one is quite stupid.(Short sellers are another thing.) As I said it was not pandemic, it was pandemic being not as bad as predicted. You presume really supernatural foreknowledge
It is of course possible that bull market was not caused by pandemic. It ended fast, any case.
Aarno Syvänen
So India’s goverment is a part of the plot ? Actually they listed medications that aare supported by clinical ,and ivermectin was not. Simple, is it not ?
Thia vaccination agenda is really global. Easiest explanation is that goverments think that vaccines work.
I already answered these questions. Your easiest and in general most likely explanation, isn’t the right one.
And now I would like to know how India counts their vaccines deaths. Probably the same way as elsewhere; if so, only based on that deceit we know it’s a plot. It’s clear now that the vaccines do far more harm then good.
India knows about the good effect of IVM, but chose to ignore and went for killshots. No plot? Think again.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Have you read all articles about athletes trying to avoid vaccination ?
https://news.yahoo.com/england-face-six-nations-problems-133543596.html
Let us see who remains”
Thanks for the link. I just read it.
I was a fanatic soccer player and cyclist once; never ever would I have gotten this jab, even though it would have cost my entire career. Don’t remember which physician it was that recommends to stop top sports after being jabbed completely. Wasn’t it professor Bakhdi?
Anyway, the English seem more resilient then elsewhere. That advocates for them. Hats off!
“Let’s see who remains” sounds as if you like to see those players loose their profession?
@NumberWang
@NumberWang “”@2Uall Shocking statistical information for all of you! Please open the following link (it was on YouTube but was removed; the official link in my country is impossible to open (why would that be?), but I found the video here: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c I hope you understand German (btw I’m not German, I’m Dutch), it is […]
Irrelevant Lucas. No matter what the graph says, your conclusion that the figures must have been swapped between vaccinated and unvaccinated has no evidence. Just your already biased opinion. I wouldn’t trust that analysis anyway, without confirmation, since it was carried out by people from a school of electrical engineering and computer science.
Neither they nor you have the knowledge or experience to produce a believable conclusion.
Not at all NumberWang, it’s not that comlicated as you think it is. Look, statistics don’t lie. Like I wrote before, there is no such thing as peer reviewing statistics. The statistics shown in Researchgate.com are based on data gathered by the official institutes.
The only thing some British Statisticians did was to make the data ‘alive’ by making graphs out of them. And that’s when – as usual – abnormalities may show up.
The abnormality here is that with each and every vaccination in each and every country investigated so far, you see a 14 day during excess mortality, peaking after a week. However, you see this in the unvaccinated, which is of course not possible. Then these researchers found out that during 14 days after vaccination excess deaths are counted in the unvaccinated. Voila, no rocket science.
Conclusion is inescapable: these vaccines are hidden killers and we’ve been misled. I substantiated by numbers here in this forum, but now you and I know where these databases lie.
There is no denial NumberWang. I don’t need my background in statistics for this, so you should be able to fully understand the situation. And I think you do, as you cannot give any alternative explanation. Cause there is no.
@Aarno Syvänen
@NumberWang “”@2Uall Shocking statistical information for all of you! Please open the following link (it was on YouTube but was removed; the official link in my country is impossible to open (why would that be?), but I found the video here: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c I hope you understand German (btw I’m not German, I’m Dutch), it is […]
“No it is that vaccination spread COVID ? It cannot be, it is not a live vaccine. Youy have been lied.”
– I don’t know what you mean here.
“Do you know that there are many follow up studies, not fonanced by big pharma and done in many countiries ? This is better than reading worldometer plota.”
– Aarno, it’s primarily not a study, it’s data processing. And the data = official data.
And it’s not only the British situation, the German professor made visible that he has analysed the situation in Germany, Austria, Israel and many other countries. Everywhere up to now he found the same phenomenon. Aarno, you can actually do the same data processing he does if you have a pc, not that hard actually.
There is no reason to expect that these gentlemen came up with falsified data, why would they?
It’s all about stratification. Dead easy, Aarno. And the graphs show that after each vaccination round there is this typical excess death peak phenomenon for 14 days with a peak after a week. Then it became clear that deaths in the vaccinated during the 14 days after the event are counted in the unvaccinated. Simple trick, big consequence.
Stay in your mass hypnoses for as long as you wish. Or you want me to say ‘snap’ to help you get out?
A clinical study is better than worldometer plot, even based on official stats.
You claimed that COVID cases raised after vaccination. This means that vaccination is supposed to infect people with COVID. Thiia is impossible, because no live vaccine is used.
@JustaTech
“My my, aren’t we impressed with ourselves, Lucas?”
– Impressed with myself that I found out that the databases are way off? Be glad that at least one here proved that. But actually I could have been the one processing the data of your databases, then I would have been the first to notice. I thought however that these databases were incomplete, like I wrote before here. But data on excess deaths are never incomplete. And if the data on the rolled out vaccinations aren’t either, it is a simple matter of putting the data in a computer, putting it in graphs and overlaying the two graphs. Dead easy, like so many things in life we don’t see, JustaTech.
“I have been more than polite with you, given you the benefit of the doubt, and frankly, you’re just plain wrong.”
– Impressive claim, but no, I’m not.
“You are trying to claim that the entire world is in on some kind of conspiracy about COVID vaccines, and only you and this small group of doctors know about it. This claim can be rejected on its face as absurd. There is a reason that “three can keep a secret if two of them are dead” is an aphorism – people are terrible about keeping secrets. And the idea that many mutually antagonistic governments would want to and succeed at keeping a secret of this order is patently absurd.”
– Never ever hide behind a system, JustaTech!!
Now you answer me why would anyone during 14 days after vaccination count excess deaths in the unvaccinated?
Due to the fact that all these nations follow the same way of counting, this must be dictated from somewhere above as it is basically an illogic falsifying ritual found on the second level. Perhaps the UN, WHO? I should have to investigate, or perhaps you do that, why not? Let us know.
I kind of know what will be the excuse if the responsible are holding account someday: “there are no antibodies formed during the first two weeks after vaccination”. Shall we bet they’ll say just this as an excuse?
Now you may tell me the ‘why’. I’m sure this is conspiracy, but hey, we knew this before the pandemic. What other motive could there be? Do you have a clue?
No, in essence there are no antagonistic governments. You think there are as they seem to be. But these are all led by the same force: evil. So it is to be expected that their ultimate goals are uniform.
“Everything you say is absurd and unbelievable. You can’t even see when you prove my point about not knowing the underlying medical condition of the people you talked to (all of whom I am now certain are figments of your imagination).”
– It may sound that way now and then. Nevertheless everything I say is true and most is verifiable. Perhaps reality is absurd and unbelievable. Or you live in this fantasy world.
The underlying medical condition is not really relevant JustaTech, people just die or have serious side effects right after an mRNA injection. Do go search for far fetched excuses, so you can sleep well.
Absurd? By no means. Unbelievable? I can’t help it I’m intuitive, creative and a chess player. Combine the three and you know who I am. You might actually benefit from it. I wished I had such mentor.
“I could try to do a point-by-point rebuttal of your comment but there simply isn’t any point. You are making up stuff, which is always easier than finding actual citations.”
– No, I’m not making up stuff. Just like MedicalYeti here, denying and cursing twice that no one gets blind at one eye after vaccination, the fool. But when I offer to bring him into contact with this young woman, it is dead silent. Now, do you want me to contact one of these people mentioned? Make an email address, give it to me and I’ll ask the person to help you. Let’s see if I’m lying or not, shall we?
Actually JustaTech, it’s you that live in a world with absurd leftist thinking. Really you guys and girls are the ones that have gone twisted and distorted. But since you’re so brainwashed, (especially by your leftist teachers), you don’t recognize that. And it really is like Malone and others say it is: you’re mass hypnosed, mind-controlled I prefer to call it. Don’t shoot the messenger please.
“So I will leave you with this, you Flying Dutchman – Lucas, you are bad at the internet. Use the reply button! Put quotes around other people’s comments that you are responding to in your comment. Failing to do so at best leaves your comments unreadable, and at worst is blatant and boring manipulation.”
– Use of the reply button is often useless, so I better don’t. Better Orac invested some money in simple software. I put “x” around other people’s comment (often). I’m sure you’ll decode.
@MedicalYeti
“Feel free to comment.” My my, aren’t we impressed with ourselves, Lucas? I have been more than polite with you, given you the benefit of the doubt, and frankly, you’re just plain wrong. You are trying to claim that the entire world is in on some kind of conspiracy about COVID vaccines, and only you […]
This is why I quit replying to him. No point wasting time on disingenuous, absurdist baloney.”
The fact that you don’t accept the simple challenge and talk to the young woman yourself and report back to us, says enough.
Denying obvious damage because of a treatment makes you the worst of a kind physician. It’s people like you that ruine lives.
Lucas- thank goodness I read much of this blog and have at last found the fountain of TRUTH, namely yourself. I can now ignore the world wide knowledge that has and continues to accumulate regards these matters and rely on your pearls of wisdom.
Lucas- your wisdom and knowledge is astounding! I am forever grateful for this lifechanging discovery!
Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas- your wisdom and knowledge is astounding! I am forever grateful for this lifechanging discovery!”
Yeah yeah, you’re welcome. And do spread the word.
It’s often reactions like these, but what remains is knowledge. And that’s the goal.
Lucas- I haven’t seen anyone of the commenters or host who have yet recognized your profundity ( except perhaps Clint). Hopefully they will carefully read my insight and realize what they have been missing and indeed spread the word, if possible, to all those dedicated Institutions and their individual scientists, world wide, that a scientific messiah is among us.
@All
@MedicalYeti
A couple of days ago I sent you this link: https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c
It’s a shame that apparently no one here understands German. What were you guys spending your time at school at?
Anyway, at 37.40 min. there is this physician telling us that she has had 3 patients that became suddenly blind at one eye soon after vaccination. The eye specialist she sent her patients to, admitted to her on the phone that the eye thrombosis he saw was most probably due to the jabs, but then tells her that he would never say this in public. So again you see that this blindness is indeed one of the side effects of the jabs.
Do notice the culture of fear and silencing these docters have to do their work in. It is physicians I meet here that are co-responsible for this disgusting situation. You sick fucks!
You should try again to understand Prof. Kuhbandner, as from your comments it became clear that you haven’t watched it. Perhaps you know someone who is willing to translate. If not, at least you will understand the graphs he shows. Have a look from 18.16 min. onwards and from 43.05 min. onwards.
Ignoring what he says and nevertheless promoting these jabs is unethical, outright criminal even. You are killing people and worse, you are damaging them for the rest of your lives.
You even harm children, damn leftist Nazis!
@Leonard Sugarman
Indeed, it’s hard to be me.
Thanks for the substantive comments.
@!Leonard Sugar
And of course don’t take it personal that when someone here starts to intentionally irritate, it’s this fountain of TRUTH they’ll get back in return. A game apparently.
It seems most people have this urge to be part of whatever is mainstream; their horizon seems to be the group’s views, these are always correct. You see this behaviour from low age at school; here you see the exact same phenomenon. It usually stops with high age; finally there’s acceptance because of desillusion and death waiting; they let go of the group and resign themselves in reality.
However, independent of age there’s always a minority whithin the group that have enough character and self awareness to not have their lives and mind lived by others. It’s these abstracted minds that are rediculed at first but honored later. Honored because they are usually right in the midst of a distorted society that, after damage, comes to senses.
Being a rubber stamp I see as a voluntary choice. Which means that everyone here has a choice to find out and admit what’s going on in society – not just with these vaccines – and resist what’s going on if they don’t like what they found out.
So, if applicable, you may start and find out yourself if and how you are being misled with regards to these vaccines. You may be lucky with your jabs so far, but of greater importance it is to find out where this pandemic and following vaccination campaign leads to for you and your family. You’ll find that that’s no ‘fountain of fun’.
Realise that an accomplice is a perpetrator.
Lucas- the pleasure is all mine with such a wonderful discovery such as yourself.
Thank you, LS. I needed that laugh.
Lucas- I just knew it. I am astounded not only by your scientific expertise but your psychological and sociological insights. I sit at your feet.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Leonard Sugarman “Lucas- your wisdom and knowledge is astounding! I am forever grateful for this lifechanging discovery!” Yeah yeah, you’re welcome. And do spread the word. It’s often reactions like these, but what remains is knowledge. And that’s the goal.
Lucas- I haven’t seen anyone of the commenters or host who have yet recognized your profundity ( except perhaps Clint). Hopefully they will carefully read my insight and realize what they have been missing and indeed spread the word, if possible, to all those dedicated Institutions and their individual scientists, world wide, that a scientific messiah is among us.”
It seems like something is bothering you, Leonard.
You said you read much of this blog, yet I never had the privilege of meeting you here, did I?
Now when in the end someone comes out of his closet and with so much sarcasm, something special must have happened. Usually this is you said something of relevance that is obviously true but kicked a sacred house. Then disillusioned as they are because of a crumbling worldview, as usual the messenger has to pay for their grief.
Something like this, Leonard?
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas- I haven’t seen anyone of the commenters or host who have yet recognized your profundity ( except perhaps Clint). Hopefully they will carefully read my insight and realize what they have been missing and indeed spread the word, if possible, to all those dedicated Institutions and their individual scientists, world wide, that a scientific messiah is among us.”
Yeah yeah, enough of my profundity etc. We can see you’re impressed, but aren’t you exaggerating.
Ah, these dedicated institutions that you lean on. You mean these that leave no opportunity pass to ‘debunk’ whatever goes against the false purpose reasoning. Go stand behind the back of your trustworthy deceiving ‘scientists’.
Actually you wouldn’t need your messiah if you had at least some analytical quality.
Lucas – if I exaggerate your profundity you will have to forgive me. I will certainly take your negative comment about my analytical qualities very seriously and make every effort to improve. Perhaps my first port of call will be perusing and take note of much of what you have written on this blog. I don’t need a messiah or guru such as yourself but if they make their presence known it is difficult and perhaps foolish to ignore, for here will be the possibility of escape from the Institutions and scientists on whom I have been leaning on all my life. I know you will delight in showing the true path to a better life- and thanks for that. Perhaps you can get me to another 20 years and so reach 100. I would love to see my granddaughter at 30.
Lucas – I read a lot of the Orac blog and it’s commentariat on issues that interest me, more as a learner than a contributor and I am very relaxed about anything I read. Really not bothered in any disturbing way about anything written. You need not think it a privilege to meet me since I am an ordinary Joe with nothing very extraordinary in his 81 years- perhaps playing soccer until 71 until the knees let me down! I am certainly not in a closet because I don’t comment much on what I previously considered some very informed opinion contributed by others. Your interpretation of my contribution is far too complicated and something with which I have little recognition. This is not up to your usual high standard of thought, which as a total should go some way towards propping up that crumbling world view from which many here are accused or suffer!
Dorit – if you say things like that-‘I needed that laugh’- you will get me a reputation of not being serious and deferential to Lucas and Clint.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Deaths are one officially reported, or estimated. Certainly better than some secret numbers.
There was a row about reporting COVID deaths. Perhaps you refer this.”
Deaths are always officialy reported, so no guesswork or dirty tricks here indeed.
If you have more info about this row, please let me know. I’m not referring to that, I don’t even know about it.
I should invest some time to find out who ordered the 14 days counting of deaths in the unvaccinated. Perhaps it’s in the article in Researchgate. If you already know, please go ahead. I’m curious. Perhaps with the said reason.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Any big disaster means that stock holders are losing. Fermenting one is quite stupid.(Short sellers are another thing.) As I said it was not pandemic, it was pandemic being not as bad as predicted. You presume really supernatural foreknowledge
It is of course possible that bull market was not caused by pandemic. It ended fast, any case.”
No Aarno, you only loose if you sell; otherwise you have no loss whatsoever. Who cares about short down turns with stocks? Not the experienced. No, they see them as opportunities for additional purchases. Futures trading of course is so much different, as it’s about timing.
What supernatural foreknowledge? Partly foreknowledge yes, but most was written down what was going to happen; also there was a stockmarket that was (over)due to correction and a pandemic that, in the eyes of investors, was supposed to stay Asian – as was the case with Sars – but went west.
This pandemic has been hyped from the start; fear, fear, we should always be fearful. Listen to your media. But for what? For a pandemic that hasn’t turned out to be as devastating as the dead bodies in the streets in Wuhan suggested? So for what purpose then? Meanwhile lots of people have become wise, certainly so here in Europe. Mass demonstrations by the hundreds of thousands that is hardly shown on your news.
The bull market that followed the crash is a bit of a different story, actually. In fact what you’ve seen since is a ‘crash up’ due to expected inflation. Investors trying to keep purchasing power, while the rest has been slowly losing it due to disguised taxes (cause that’s what inlation really is). Thanks to the FED and its followers.
Now it seems the FED has lost it. It is out of ammunition (cannot use its interest weapon or spending) and the big question now is: will it crash markets or the dollar (not against other currencies, but so much further against purchasing power). The result will be devastating one way or the other, in our view.
Hope for a soft landing so that the financial pain will be taken by the middle class that is pushed down the lower class. Problem is that debt never disappears. And since consumers, companies and governmenst have all lived above their means, all we wait for is some event no one cares or notices to get snowballing out of hand, like always under these conditions. A lot of succesful investors I follow, reckon with a collapse of the financial system worldwide.
We’re not certain whether such event hasn’t actually been actively planned. A child knows that you cannot pile debt without consequences, nevertheless that’s what’s been going on for decades. Now it is actually amazingly easy to crash our economies and confiscate our cash in the banks, our financed houses and what more. You just raise interest rates above 2% and chaos is there.
Perhaps we should connect what has happened for so long with the plan to finally reach that technological totalitarian socialist dictatorship.
S&P 500 index is here:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EGSPC/
There is a drop in Feb Mar 2020, but then bull market resumes. Of course, COVID did not turn much better March 2020, and “the hype” did not end either (Trump actually desclared an emergency). But S&P 500 has performed badly lately, though “the hype” still continues.
@Aarno Syvänen
“A clinical study is better than worldometer plot, even based on official stats.
You claimed that COVID cases raised after vaccination. This means that vaccination is supposed to infect people with COVID. Thiia is impossible, because no live vaccine is used.”
If I claimed that Covid cases rose after vaccination it’s because it got late. Did I?
No, it’s the raise in excess deaths after each vaccination round.
Vaccination rounds are still continuing (no country has stopped them), so we do not know what happens after the end of vaccinations
@Dorit Reiss
“Lucas- the pleasure is all mine with such a wonderful discovery such as yourself.
Thank you, LS. I needed that laugh.”
Yes, funny that so many people die after vaccination, isn’t it?
There are more sick minds that are having the time of their lifes now.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas – I read a lot of the Orac blog and it’s commentariat on issues that interest me, more as a learner than a contributor and I am very relaxed about anything I read. Really not bothered in any disturbing way about anything written. You need not think it a privilege to meet me since I am an ordinary Joe with nothing very extraordinary in his 81 years- perhaps playing soccer until 71 until the knees let me down! I am certainly not in a closet because I don’t comment much on what I previously considered some very informed opinion contributed by others. Your interpretation of my contribution is far too complicated and something with which I have little recognition. This is not up to your usual high standard of thought, which as a total should go some way towards propping up that crumbling world view from which many here are accused or suffer!”
71 Years and playing soccer is extraordinary. Be careful now that you’re over 80!
A crumbling world is a bad omen for the corrupt. Not for people with a high morality.
Aarno Syvänen
“Thiia is impossible, because no live vaccine is used.”
– Could you explain?
No live virus in an mRNA vaccine. No dead virus or weakened virus either. Not possible for vaccine to give you Covid.
Therefore not possible to die from Covid caused by vaccination, although you could die from Covid if you get a breakthrough infection.
@Orac
“Put quotes around other people’s comments that you are responding to in your comment. Failing to do so at best leaves your comments unreadable, and at worst is blatant and boring manipulation.”
Fyi: I put these quotes, however often they are not presented after ‘Post Comment’ . This goes for the use of a dash and indent as well. Any explanation?
Use HTML blockquote tags to surround the quotes.
@prl
Thanks, that seems to work.
Lucas – as I have stated , your pearls of wisdom are taken very seriously and I will heed them and take special care now I am over 80. Of course I must have taken some care or other to reach 80 prior to your advice – or perhaps it wuz jus me genes guv. I will let you guide me to those with a ‘high morality’.cos I’m not cute enough to recognize ’em. It must be mi age, I seem to be reverting to me ol’ London verbals.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas – as I have stated , your pearls of wisdom are taken very seriously and I will heed them and take special care now I am over 80. Of course I must have taken some care or other to reach 80 prior to your advice – or perhaps it wuz jus me genes guv. I will let you guide me to those with a ‘high morality’.cos I’m not cute enough to recognize ’em. It must be mi age, I seem to be reverting to me ol’ London verbals.”
It’s after 80 that people should be more careful with living like before, geriatrists say.
Did you play soccer in a team once?
Lucas – although of little or no interest to other commenters you must know that soccer is a team game. I played as a yuuf – oops youth, at school and later for a youth club also much later ( a comeback at 54) with other teachers at a couple of schools where I worked – against other teacher teams and 16- 18 yr old pupils. The only physical activity I have maintained over 60 years is regular swimming at a several of indoor pools, depending where I live. I now do a few exercises in the gym with the free weights or machines . Nothing heroic. No more badminton and running. Your care and advice is noted and welcome.
@NumberWang, @Aarno Syvänen
Indeed, of course that’s not possible.
<“Thiia is impossible, because no live vaccine is used.”
Could you explain?>
After you get injected with vaccines that utilize either mRNA or an adenovirus vector to direct human cells to produce the spike protein, it is the harmful actions of the spike protein that cause side effects like a Tia. But why not let one of the physicians here explain the mechanism?
Point is that spike protein disappers very fast. It is a foreign protein, so immune defense is mounted against it.
@Leonard Sugarman
Nice.
I guess you miss playing soccer as much as I do. My brothers and I used to play at it every week (and every day when we were young at the schoolyard). Even during holidays abroad we missed it so much that we searched for locals to play the game. Can you understand why it never became popular in the US?
Lucas- we have strayed enough. Soccer has no relevance to this blog except that many of UK’s pro players have not yet been vaccinated and we will not discuss that.
@Aarno Syvänen
<S&P 500 index is here:
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EGSPC/
There is a drop in Feb Mar 2020, but then bull market resumes. Of course, COVID did not turn much better March 2020, and “the hype” did not end either (Trump actually desclared an emergency). But S&P 500 has performed badly lately, though “the hype” still continues.>
Resume is not exactly the right word, as the ‘crash up’ after the crash is not the ‘trend’ before the crash. And calling it a drop is not the right word, it was a huge crash.
Indeed the S&P 500 has performed badly lately. I hear you say that the hype will continue; based on what would you say so?
You are more positive then I am, Aarno.
It is the FED that sent the stock exchanges rediculously higher worldwide; literally trillions were thrown into the markets all over the world – an absurd and exaggerated measurement, unnacessary if Covid wasn’t hyped the way it was and economies weren’t shut down – as wasn’t necessary at all.
Have you heard the FED’s expressions lately? There will be 3 interest increases, these will probably be fractional, like 0,25% each time or so, but who knows. Not good for the markets, but not that scary either; but it sets a trend that’s not positive for markets and all indebted parties. More disturbing for the financial markets however is the recent change in tune of the FED. Instead of ‘tapering’, now it speaks of ‘tightening’. That is what the markets do not like and is the main reason for the set back lately. Tightening is the rolling back of what has been done for years.
An aggressive quantitative tightening (QT) pace would of course set the stage for another spike in rates and that’s when things get tricky. During QT, the U.S. Treasury increases its borrowing from the private sector to repay Treasuries held by the Fed. While the Fed can be repaid with cash held in either the RRP or banks, the current issuance structure suggests repayment will largely come out of the banking system. The lesson of the prior QT was that reducing the cash balances of banks directly impacts markets that were recipients of that cash. In 2019, banks were pouring their extra cash into the repo market amidst surging demand for repo financing. The repo market broke when QT siphoned that extra cash away. This time around banks have poured their cash into Treasuries and Agency MBS amidst surging issuance. QT will primarily drain bank cash balances. Not only the stage is then set for a potential spike in longer dated rates, but the same or worse may happen as was the case in September 2019. Such a Repo crisis may easily take the entire world economy down next time and lead us into severe depression; do not think lightly about this because perhaps you’ve never heard of it.
So, one way or the other we are screwed. Either inflation gets (even more) out of control – the US president (and other politicians) won’t like that as his voters will run poor and will thus likely not vote for him a next time; not to mention that financial markets will push interest rates higher autonomously, cause these will demand a higher compensation for money lent to at least stay equal with inflation – or (partly) because of tapering, interest rates reach higher levels with an additional chance of a Repo crisis.
Like I said before, there is unavoidable chaos ahead. It’s only a matter of when.
Okay, and here I go again, so please stop reading.
In my opinion what we see is intentional. Okay, you may mention greed and deliberate shortsightedness; but what has happened so far is beyond that: the boys and girls in charge knew this would be the result and it is wished for. I cannot think of a logic alternative explanation. And hey, when our financial system crashes it is easy for our governments to transver your money at some new digital account where the government by means of AI can direct you to do with your money what they want. That’s literally everything. It is more scary then you might think; a far reaching control over your life is the result. You drove too many kilometers and AI will set the price of gasoline for you 25 times higher. You’ve had your one time vacation by plane or travelled to friends or family too frequent – that’s enough and you’re forced to stay home – of course under the climate label. The government doesn’t like you because you don’t comply 100% (because you want your freedom or because you don’t want to get vaccinated, whatever is is) and you cannot reach your money at all. Another possiblility is when the everything bubble pops and thus all banks over the world are bankrupt, your credit at your bank is gone, ‘puff’. Like that, $0,00. You can then rent what wasn’t payed off and be sure, the rest will be taken away from you. These are simply the plans you can read about.
Look, no one likes an eerie prospect. But your cooperation in these forced but needless (with needles) vaccinations plays a role in what’s going to happen next. Getting along in one aspect makes it much easier to take you along in the next. I’m almost sure that we will not be left alone for the future to come (only possible when a big part of the population wakes up and resist). I expect a constant sort of hunt. Not (just) by scary new virus variants, but by whatever it is – certainly because of economic havoc. Perhaps by creating a war or perhaps there will be a hyped climate catastrophe. Or there’s another virus form the lab, whatever. And meanwhile you’re being enslaved step by step. Or even killed; probably not, but who knows. The virus and the vaccines have already killed by the millions (far far more then the official numbers, as we’ve seen here). And why? There is evil at play. And because most don’t believe in the phenomenon, thhey are in denial of what’s happening and so it can continue. Quite sinister that is, but point the finger in your own direction.
Enslaving ? Wars ? Chaos ? You have watched to many bad science fiction films.’
It indeed could be FED. But I though you think it was coronavirus hype.
Interesting thing is that S&P 500 resumed (actully the trend is faster rising) after Trump declared national emergy, and FED lowered FFTR second time
@DJ
You think these people are uneducated and don’t know what they’re doing?
[…] “renowned scientists” they cite are physician and anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist Robert Malone and former Trump advisor Peter Navarro, an economist, writing in a Washington Times op-ed. The […]
@Aarno Syvänen
I don’t like science fiction films.
‘Coronavirus hype’ that sets markets higher? Nonsense.
Predicting is about history repeating, anticyclical thinking, extrapolation, the bigger picture. This is very difficult for a human being; go ahead and read history about widely supported expectations and sentiment previous to the major crises we had. The greater part of the group is always wrong Aarno, always. For their own sake these people should stay away from speculation.
Your doubts on “enslaving, wars, chaos” are meaningless without a context, a motivation. They’re just common sentiment; in you I see this unjustified optimism that many have but actually has no base.
We base expectations on lots of research and (red flagging) sensors. Large scale moral decline is our nr. 1 motivating factor for chaos ahead and has has never ended well. Furthermore, enslavement is the obvious plan, when will you start reading what matters? And wars I didn’t mention as what we expect or we will likely be experiencing. Reading comprehension, Aarno.
You mean raading public statements ? People would put theoir plot on web ? People are making lots of noise about their rightsnowadays
Boosters May Weaken The Immune System Says European Medicine Agency (EMA) | T Cell Exhaustion
S&P 500 raised. so supposed plot would be talk up stocks. If coronavirus was a plot, ditto
I you reads the original article, it EMA says repeaated doses may not be effective. This is not “immune exhaustion”, but babout immune resomse to the sane stimulus. But if tere is a new variant, stimulus is not same.
.
What a perfect example of Luke-ass’s dishonesty:
– found a link which misrepresented the EMA statement by omitting the word “hypothetically,” and
– Ignored any and all material from the EMA which contradicts their deeply held hallucinatory beliefs.
Well played, Luke-ass!
Yeah. I’m starting to think the poster in question at best is wearing their tin foil hat way too tight, and at worst is getting ready to goose step his way across Europe.
(Yeah, I Godwin’d, but in my defense that’s really not a stretch after the many insinuations of an evil one world government and “moral decline”.)
@Aarno Syvänen
S&P 500 raised. so supposed plot would be talk up stocks. If coronavirus was a plot, ditto
I you reads the original article, it EMA says repeaated doses may not be effective. This is not “immune exhaustion”, but babout immune resomse to the sane stimulus. But if tere is a new variant, stimulus is not same.
How would a plot to talk up stocks work in practice?
Okay, the value of stocks is more psychology then that it deals with reality, at least so in the short run: you buy stocks because you believe everybody else believes the economy is improving. Partly it is based on this spending we talked about before, but that essentially sends the wrong signal.
However, for an outlook on the economy it’s the bond market you should be looking at. In stocks they’re pricing essentially a bunch of fantasies. Irrational behaviour behaves irrationally in two directions.
Problem remains that without legitimate economic growth, debt becomes that much more of a problem. And it is the bond market that predicts a slowing down in the economy. I.o.w., trouble ahead according to me. Nevertheless, processes can actually go on for a longer time then you rationally would expect.
The potential problem with new variants could be that the vaxxed get so much more ill then the unvaxxed. At least according to some specialists in the field.
I spoke about plot you preiously suggested
@Aarno Syvänen
Please read more careful, it is not what I said or suggested.
@Opus
And who might you be? A decent introduction instead of a start with allegations and cursing would perhaps be more appropriate.
What the hell are you talking about? I sent a link with quoted title from a respected docter from whom you might actually learn about the subject. And he is pro vaccination, so there’s no reason for you to a priori hate the human being.
Now then, does the docter play word games or is there something wrong with you not being able to reading comprehension? English may not be my mother tongue, even I understand that the equivalent of the word “may” is “hypothetically”. So what do you mean by this “misrepresentation by omitting the word “hypothetically”?
And tell me how you would have expressed yourself as a representative of the EMA to make your point about the negative relation of boosters and the immune system?
So you haven’t payed attention to the video or the docter in question at all. Please do so as yet and tell us what material from the EMA the docter has ignored. And what are these “deeply held hallucinatory beliefs” this docter has, being pro vaccination?
@JustaTech
<(Yeah, I Godwin’d, but in my defense that’s really not a stretch after the many insinuations of an evil one world government and “moral decline”.)>
Where have you noticed me writing about a “one world government”?
Where have you noticed me writing about you being a simple-minded leftist fact twister?
Deaths in New Zealand:
One of patients did not search treatment
Oh good. You have taken a full load of shots.
[…] the one lamenting the “defenstration of Dr. Robert Malone” (who, recall, has gone full antivax lately and was a headliner at a recent antivax confab), the one portraying the […]
I can’t get it to post in line as a reply above (Sorry all) but that post that M/M- one invented mRNA vaccines the other is the most published came verbatim from Rogan’s “response” video yesterday…
@Orac
Perhaps because of the same reason you parrot your pro vaccine talking points?
With this difference that he doesn’t parrot for the money?
@Aarno Syvänen
The video “Deaths in New Zealand” shows the same result as the research showed earlier here from Engleand, Germany and so many other countries: New Zealand had a surge in all-cause mortality in the 60+ cohort that almost perfectly correlates with vaccine delivery intensity (and not with Covid as this was non existing). More jabs = more deaths and fewer jabs = fewer deaths. No surprise there.
[…] informações que sobrevivem, seus argumentos de fato parecem descalibrados, com alegações de danos neurológicos e reprodutivos que não têm base empírica. Dito isso, é difícil julgar o mérito de sua suspensão, já que […]
[…] of these conditions. Even Dr. Robert “inventor of mRNA vaccines” Malone, who has gone full antivaccine lately, managed to ignore the extreme implausibility of attributing such a huge increase in cancers to […]
I would encourage everyone to read The Spartacus Letter, if you can find it. Malone is being silenced for a reason.
Funny, but for someone being “silenced,” I sure do see a lot of Malone and his bad takes on COVID-19 wherever I go.?
It’s odd to me how the objections to the discussion of Malone came so quickly, in such large numbers. It’s almost as though a switch was turned at some disinformation farm.
I remember a bit of a similar response years ago when investigations of Lott’s “research” on guns was getting exposed as garbage: lots of emails defending him and his integrity, similar to what’s happening here. Of course, it was found that one of the people writing the emails (Rose, I believe was the last name used) was Lott himself: he eventually admitted it. He also had his (at the time) 13-year-old son write several emails and review his book on Amazon.
Is it possible Malone has a hand in motivating these loons?
I’m not interested in plowing through anonymous conspiracy theorizing, especially if doesn’t even agree with itself. But you’re welcome to advocate for any points you consider valid.
Lots of others have been doing that.
https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/anonymous-spartacus-covid-letter-riddled-with-misinformation-baseless-claims-about-global-conspiracy/?article_id=758009
I would encourage everyone to read the Spartacus Letter, if you want to understand how society reached this said place, and to know why no one should listen to Malone and friends.
Or if you want a good laugh (or cry)…
What sad place do you mean?
And what is there to laugh about something sad (I guess that is what you ment to write instead of “said”)?
[…] prohibition, public health efforts to Nazi manipulation of crowds, and Dr. Robert Malone, who has promoted many antivaccine conspiracy theories, to a hero. Other articles have likened vaccine mandates to atrocities such as the Chinese Cultural […]
[…] informações que sobrevivem, seus argumentos de fato parecem descalibrados, com alegações de danos neurológicos e reprodutivos que não têm base empírica. Dito isso, é difícil julgar o mérito de sua suspensão, já que […]
[…] informações que sobrevivem, seus argumentos de fato parecem descalibrados, com alegações de danos neurológicos e reprodutivos que não têm base empírica. Dito isso, é difícil julgar o mérito de sua suspensão, já que […]
To all of you sick lying deniers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfyOihhAD4A
So Campbell found another retrospective study to talk about. Whoopee!!!
Get back to us when one of the placebo-controlled RCT’s that this study calls for actually shows a clinically significant result.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34570241/
@squirrelelite
Opening your link, what do we read: “Based on the current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent COVID-19. The completed studies are small and few are considered high quality. Several studies are underway that may produce clearer answers in review updates.”
So this is your ‘whoopee’? Great, Squirrelelite.
Now why don’t you attack Campbell on his content? He does seem to provide you the “clearer answers” that you should be so interested in, hmm? I’m curious…
Lucas, claiming you have a “certification” in statistics is worthless without some background: was it through a statistics program? The usual 2 or 3 classes that go into one, just enough to make you familiar with the terms and provide barely enough information to be dangerous? Not much of an accomplishment, and if it is through your marketing work it’s even less likely to be meaningful, and given your lack of understanding those are the most likely possibilities (although you could have just barely limped through).
In the very unlikely case you actually had some meaningful classes: why the hell didn’t you pay attention?
“Statistics don’t lie”
Another stupid comment. The statistics in “The Bell Curve” lied, as did the statistics in Lott’s work on guns and safety. As do the statistics you anti-vaccers toss around. Of course, in all of those cases, the statistics lie because of the people behind them.
@Aarno Syvänen and others
You see Aarno, when only the thought of war seemed so rediculous to you, just watch every day’s news now: here is your “war”.
What did I write to you in January?
“I’m almost sure that we will not be left alone for the future to come. I expect a constant sort of hunt. Not (just) by scary new virus variants, but by whatever it is – certainly because of economic havoc. Perhaps by creating a war…”
Aarno, I told you several times that you look in the wrong direction. Two reasons for your problem that I gave you are:
“There is evil at play. And because most don’t believe in the phenomenon, they are in denial of what’s happening and so it can continue. Quite sinister that is, but point the finger in your own direction. I would say first you should be able to recognize evil and admit that it exists. Then it’s time you find out what entities are behind it. Otherwise you will never understand the ‘why’.”
“Large scale moral decline is our nr. 1 motivating factor for chaos ahead and that has never ended well.”
Whether we will make it to the point of enslavement – which is clearly the goal – I do not know. Probably society comes to a halt before that point. It will be the chaos ahead that will at some point ask for an urgent solution; whether all of that is master minded or not, I don’t know but is not relevant.
What will be the outcome? I wrote:
“I can imagine you think there will not be (more) chaos, but I assure you that you will be confronted with it. It will be tough and in the end deadly for many. It is a matter of time. Be aware of the so called solution when things seem really to go out of hand, cause what follows is not good at all. In the end you’ll see it is self destruction.
The game that is being played behind the scenes and of which this pandemic is a part, will turn against the master mind(s) of this world. That is once they come up with their so called ‘solution’ that is ment as a sort of reassuring peace for us. But this will be the precise moment all hell breaks loose for each and every corrupted individual. In the period to follow centuries long cherised institutions will be wiped out and at the end of that period it is the corrupted themselves that will come to their end.
Now, laugh again if you like. And watch yourself come to your end as you love the lie.
It may take a while or not, I don’t know about the timing. Personally I expect it in one of the coming years, but it can be sooner just as well.
So Aarno and others reading this, continue to sleep or start working at your personality. People like you are self destructive. I advice you to choose life and go for it while you still can.
“Now, laugh again if you like.”
I have been — not that I needed your permission. At the same time — what an asinine flow of free form crap.
@ldw56oldn
<“Now, laugh again if you like.”
I have been — not that I needed your permission. At the same time — what an asinine flow of free form crap.>
It would be wiser to first do some homework before you speak. We have shown to be more then succesful predicting the future, go ahead and read back. But this time it is more then a prediction with uncertainty factor.
Feel free to set aside. At least now future will not surprise you.
@ldw56oldn
Perhaps for you to actually calculate with these predictions and make it less cryptic, there are three sources to reach to those conclusions.
First as an economist and investor who knows that and how history repeats: be sure of chaos ahead, a.o. because of the end of the economic super cycle. The amount of debt worldwide has gone through the roof. But debt never disappears. Interest is set at about zero percent. Simply put, either inflation will turn into hyperinflation or our economies will collapse; be it a soft or a hard landing, the consequences will be dramaticly the same either way. This time there is no escape as we ran out of instruments for another round of patching up. All due to our economies being deliberately demolished over the past decades; economic law tells you the price for all excesses will be payed. I wouldn’t close my eyes for that reality.
Today’s war is more or less likely. Btw, we are not the only ones that calculated with this outcome. Did you see it coming? Why not?
The moral decline of the individual that has led to widespread greed and lack of empathy is another indicator; society is the combined behaviour of these individuals.
Secondly we have inside knowledge of the plans of institutions that dictate your future. Please read back, I’m not going to repeat.
Thirdly there is another – absolute – source that has been predicting elements of what I wrote. Connect the dots and you’re there, not that hard in fact.
Like I said, life or death will be a matter of what kind of person you are.
Laugh as much as you like now, you will get that uncomfortable feeling at some point. Somewhat later you are peeing your pants.
“First as an economist ”
So not anything resembling a scientist, certainly not anything that would give you insight into vaccines or any relevant statistical ability.
“We have shown to be more then succesful predicting the future”
Well no, that’s complete bullshit. General descriptions and vague comments are not predictions, but the general tone of your writing shows you to be lacking in specifics.
“The moral decline of the individual that has led to widespread greed and lack of empathy is another indicator…”
Yawn. That line of crap has been spouted about younger generations for centuries.
“Secondly we have inside knowledge of the plans of institutions that dictate your future. ”
You seem to have a knack for making the types of statements the stereotypical fortune teller with a crystal ball makes — and there is as much reason to put faith in your comments as there is to put faith in the things a seer spouts: zero.
“Hate speech doesn’t get us anywhere”
Nothing was hate speech (you apparently know words but not meanings). You haven’t demonstrated an understanding of anything. Spouting wild, illogical forecasts like those in your earlier posts don’t go anywhere to indicate you have a grasp on reality at all.
@ldw56old
<Lucas, claiming you have a “certification” in statistics is worthless without some background: was it through a statistics program? The usual 2 or 3 classes that go into one, just enough to make you familiar with the terms and provide barely enough information to be dangerous? Not much of an accomplishment, and if it is through your marketing work it’s even less likely to be meaningful, and given your lack of understanding those are the most likely possibilities (although you could have just barely limped through).
In the very unlikely case you actually had some meaningful classes: why the hell didn’t you pay attention?
“Statistics don’t lie”
Another stupid comment. The statistics in “The Bell Curve” lied, as did the statistics in Lott’s work on guns and safety. As do the statistics you anti-vaccers toss around. Of course, in all of those cases, the statistics lie because of the people behind them.>
Hate speech doesn’t get us anywhere, ldw56old.
You may write it differently, but do me a favour and stop your childish and meaningless term “anti-vaxxer”.
Then be so good as to communicate what post it is you react to.
@ldw56old
Still you haven’t mentioned exactly what statistics you do not agree with.
Like I mentioned before, statistics don’t lie. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t one of the most misused sciences, especially by companies and health organisations that promote mRNA vaccines; that’s why I said before to basicly never trust statistics; simply because it often brings you the wrong message. It’s not that you need to attack underlying calculations, these will be correct. No, it is the input where the snake hides. Now tell me, what exactly is your criticism on what?
<“Enslaving ? Wars ? Chaos ? You have watched to many bad science fiction films.”>
This was the reply of Aarno Syvänen in January to me, when I mentioned the arrival of a war that seemed so unlikely to him. So it is time to remind him that the world may indeed show radical shifts, not expected by most human beings. In the coming years we will see big shifts in other areas as well, is what I said. Put that aside or not, I don’t care.
Where did I claim insight into vaccines (whatever it is you mean by that)?
Statistics was an elective. I mainly use it for economic analysis. What’s your problem here? Where did I misuse it?
And yes, we have indeed shown to be succesful in predicting the future. That is the reason we have made a fortune over the years; that fact alone shows the claimed ‘success in predicting’.
What I said about what to expect from now on, definately isn’t vague. Just like I predicted Aarno Syvänen to calculate with a war, when there was no sign of it back in January.
We will see about the rest, ldw56old. The thing is that I cannot only reason what is going to happen, but more alarming (to me) is that my intuition leaves me no doubt. These are the rare moments I invest and it has never turned out differently then expected so far.
<“The moral decline of the individual that has led to widespread greed and lack of empathy is another indicator…”
Yawn. That line of crap has been spouted about younger generations for centuries.>
Only the young and the arrogant do not see how the ‘moral’ (used as a collective term) of the population has changed for the worse; it is a worldwide phenomenon. The difference between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people has become blatantly obvious. If you don’t see that all it tells me is that you are in one of both categories, probably both.
<“Secondly we have inside knowledge of the plans of institutions that dictate your future. ”
You seem to have a knack for making the types of statements the stereotypical fortune teller with a crystal ball makes — and there is as much reason to put faith in your comments as there is to put faith in the things a seer spouts: zero.>
Take it for what it’s worth. Probably nothing to you and that’s fine. If you have been paying attention to the stream of previous posts and do some smart googling, you would find out that this claim may actually have a real basis. We know more then you do.
No, we have no crystal ball. On the other hand, every stockbroker is a fortune teller. This is his work. But most people lack knowledge of history, macro economics, lack patience and above all intuition and deductive skills. Their lack is our bank account. The real problem is that hardly anyone – and that includes you – has any idea on how the world turns; how it is ruled and divided, you have no damn clue. These people are the ones that redicule but lick wounds later. I’m sorry to say, but I don’t take back any of the forecasts that seem so annoying to you. Nevertheless, the basis to say so is there. Give it a follow up or not is your decision. This time it is not just about making money, it is about saving your life.
We will see about that. The coming years will tell.
“Like I mentioned before, statistics don’t lie”
Again, that is a bullshit claim: the fact that you don’t understand it tells me all I need to know about your understanding.
“That doesn’t mean that it isn’t one of the most misused sciences, especially by companies and health organisations that promote mRNA vaccines”
And that is all we need to know to realize that you are simply another ignorant conspiracy theorist. Your laughable (unhinged, actually) buffoonery about “predicting the future” and repeated banging on “inside knowledge of the plans of institutions that dictate your future.” just mark you as a 3rd rate fortune teller wanna-be. You certainly aren’t someone to be taken seriously about anything.
@ldw56old
<“Like I mentioned before, statistics don’t lie”Again, that is a bullshit claim: the fact that you don’t understand it tells me all I need to know about your understanding.>
Translated for the very slow of understanding / the unwilling: a calculation does not lie, you cannot fool with it. What matters is your input. Now clear? Better you stop fooling yourself with that scapegoating of yours.
Now, you attack me on statistics and I’ve asked you twice what exactly is your criticism on what. So come on and let’s discuss.
If you do not come up with any content again, shall we conclude that your arrogance outshines your intellect?
What “we” need to know…, funny. Do you look for moral support by the group, trying to seperate the individual? Cheap.
But you’re wrong. I realized – and have extensively been telling people here from the beginning – that the official figures on deathrate and harm of these mRNA vaccines cannot be correct by any means. This simply due to the cases I experienced – and described here – around me. I explained that the calculated chance of just me experiencing this phenomenon while hardly present in society, is extremely small. Not too complicated a calculation if you have the numbers of the underlying control group. Which of course I don’t have, but can roughly be estimated.
Then I told you guys about the 66.000 control group, of which 4 were severely wounded right after vaccination; this was not in line with the official statistics either; not even near. I explained that these 66.000 people were under the age of 65 and had a more then average healthy lifestyle. Suppose that would not have been the case (because of stress, obesity, addicts (drugs, alcohol, tobacco), diabetes, whatever that was hardly / not present in the control group) ánd the elderly would have been included, then the casualties in such control group would have skyrocketed, especially under the high aged.
So even though the outcome of the investigation was shared to show how save these vaccines are, this is of course plain nonsens. The contrary is true.
Then I found out about the report of these statisticians in England who processed excess mortality and related it to the vaccination rounds in the different age groups. Then the fraud became clear: during the 14 days after each vaccination round, casualties are counted in the unvaccinated. With this sinister trick – from official side – the dangerous potential of mRNA vaccines is hidden.
See https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356756711_Latest_statistics_on_England_mortality_data_suggest_systematic_mis-categorisation_of_vaccine_status_and_uncertain_effectiveness_of_Covid-19_vaccination. Again: statistics don’t lie; they visualize. What is wrong with you?
Note that these are not my calculations nor are they from people with a point of view against vaccination. Nevertheless, shoot at the content, I’m curious what you have to say.
Then I made you guys aware of the good professor Kuhbander, who researched this phenomenon for so many other countries and found the same dirty trick there.
This is scumbags at work.
Now say what you want, I’m listening how you try and defend this human trash. I guess you are either bluntly foolish and simply not able to comprehend what’s going on, or you are a lowlife as well, defending what’s killing people. Your pick.
Predicting the future is another chapter that has not much to do with the statistical research in question. Clearly you don’t like what I said, fine. But it doesn’t change reality. Just like this war we have now going on. For sure you would have denied that, just like Aarno did.
Humiliate as much as you wish. Your party, as long as it lasts.
Your words “ignorant”, “conspiracy theorist”, “laughable”, “unhinged”, “buffoonery”, “banging”, “wanna-be” in those few lines of yours only show frustration and anger. Nothing substantive, in fact meaningless.
Sorry Lucas, you’re nothing but a delusional liar who, based on your comments, couldn’t calculate 1+1 without a lot of help.
It occurs to me that it takes a lot of fucking gall from someone to complain about “declining morals” in society while at the same time repeating bald faced lies about vaccine safety and spouting asinine conspiracies about covid being part of some (imaginary) world0wide conspiracy. You’re just another clueless liar trying to make a name for himself as a “lone voice in the woods”. Pathetic.
Interesting read: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011
Do you know what the term “in vitro” means? Do you live in a petri dish?
@Chris
We’re all living petri dishes, aren’t we?
So, what’s your message? A discrapency in results between in vitro and in vivo? Based on what?
Why do you think this study was conducted?
For what reason do you think Ivermectin has been pushed aside with so much effort and silly stories about f.e. overdosage or horsemedicin BS?
I wait for your educated guess.
There is a difference between putting a high concentration of a substance on cells sitting on a dish, versus a human swallowing the stuff and it going though a functional biological system with metabolic systems.
Does the medium in the petri dish have a respiratory system, a vascular system or even a digestive system? Thinking you can go for petri dish to humans, especially when the dose required is higher than possible in a human, is extremely foolish. Only an uneducated goof would think that two year old paper is relevant.
“A discrapency in results between in vitro and in vivo? Based on what? ‘
Reality bozo.
“For what reason do you think Ivermectin has been pushed aside”
Because studies show it doesn’t work. Just how immensely dense are you?
@ldw56old
Saying sorry is indeed the only wise action.
Hmm no, I don’t need lies. I hate lies. That is why I am politically neutral.
Speaking about politics, it seems the attitude towards vaccination is heavily infuenced by political color. So let me guess, you are a leftist?
How smart would it be to base medical treatments on politics?
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are not into some religion, where your fetish is the vaccine. There’s no space for discussion and argues against your belief is blasphemy that is punished through hate, denigration, swearing. You certainly show all elements. Just like some other devoted fanatics here.
I think you are a brainwashed fool without an eye for reality, ldw56old. Really.
“ Hmm no, I don’t need lies. I hate lies”
Yet you continue to spew them in your asinine conspiracy rants. Odd that.
The Pfizer documents: a pro vaccine docter confused.
No conspiracy theory here.
Now, haven’t I been telling you from the start? You fools.
@ldw56old
What you’re saying here is not smart. Here is why.
Firstly there are other very succesful macro economists and analysts who at least partly say the very same we do. You might listen to Jim Rogers, George Gammon, Ray Dalio to name a few. The latter being the biggest hedgefund manager in the world. They know history too and are aware what is going on in today’s world. I would say watch and learn, buy a book, watch their Youtube’s episodes, whatever. You’ll find that they describe wars and chaos ahead, just like we do. Would you describe them as asinine? Well, perhaps you are not such a clever boy yourself.
Or, more likely, you have some intellect, but – and this definately is the biggest problem in the younger generation – you are in a disturbing way hypnotised and brainwashed. And together with your distorted moral compass it’s like decribing what’s in a room with the lights off; what you see is imagination, not real.
The last part of what I forecasted, I told you does not come from us. It comes from the same ‘absolute’ source that forecasted the rise and fall of world empires long before it happened.
Then there is the part about what the UN and the WEF as a channel and executor have in mind for us. That may sound like a conspiracy theory to you. But if you actually took the time to read about what these organisations communicate about their plans, you’ll see it’s indeed a conspiracy but no theory at all. Much of it is there to read; put of your rose-colored glasses and you’ll see.
Next I told you I have an advisory insider there, something you apparently find laughable but is nevertheless true and even verifiable if you’re a clever investigator. Good luck or stay a fool.
“Then there is the part about what the UN and the WEF as a channel and executor have in mind for us.”
there it is.
“That may sound like a conspiracy theory to you.”
That’s because it is a conspirocy theory, a favorite of loons everywhere.
George Gammon — if you’re referencing the putin apologist then yes, he is a loon. Just like you.
The notion that you, or any economist, or anyone, can predict what will happen in the future is a false one. Weak minds – those who base their predictions on conspiracies — believe it — but there is no rational, statistical, or mathematical basis for it.
I’m sorry you seemed to have attended a school where the only criterion for getting a degree was how quickly your check cleared, but that seems to be the only explanation for your lack of understanding of science and statistics.
@Chris
So we know what qualities Ivermectin has. It does inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2. Great, isn’t it? Despite all the lies and deception, yes it is.
Fine, that’s step nr. 1. The next step is to research if it inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in the human body. If so, we wanna know what is the (lowest) dosage it still does its job and whether that is a safe dosage for humans or not.
If you know the answer to these questions, tell me. If you do not know, your attitude is wrong, Chris. Aren’t you just playing a silly game?
I think the answers have been there for a looooong time.
On March 6, 4:55 pm, I posted this link that proves the potential of Ivermectin by repetition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfyOihhAD4A. Feel free to attack the content.
I understand that these mRNA vaccines are at odds with the use of Ivermectin. But realise how much blood is on your hands because of the victims that you created by depriving the drug.
Pushing a result by Campbell shows you got nothing as usual Lucas. The fact that you fall for crap from quacks isn’t a surprise. I would suggest you look at reports of summaries from legitimate sources, but you conspiracy and science denying clowns don’t do things like that.
Your continued posting of crap does complement your self-important shitty writing style well — that has to be admitted.
@ldw56old
If he’s a quack, he’s your quack as a pro vaccine docter.
But perhaps the man wakes up without telling his audience. But still he is your quack, not mine.
Oh, would you mind sharing with what result that Campbell shows you disagree and why?
Like what squirrelelite came up with? Ah, and what do we read there:
“Based on the current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent COVID-19. The completed studies are small and few are considered high quality. Several studies are underway that may produce clearer answers in review updates.”
I see.
What would be your writing style in Dutch?
@Lucas,
Thanks for the courtesy of a reply.
As I mentioned in my comment,
You linked to one of Dr Campbell’s recent videos where he discusses a couple recently published studies. So let’s take a look at those and see what we can see.
The first of these was Efimenko et al published in March 2022.
The first thing that I noticed is that this is a retrospective observational study based on already observed cases. Dr Campbell describes this as very well organized, but one thing that jumped out at me is that it only compares Ivermectin patients with Remdesivir patients. There is no placebo or usual care arm. So it is NOT placebo-controlled and NOT an RCT.
The other thing I noticed is that there are important differences in the two patient groups. The ivermectin group is 43% male with an average age of 51.9 while the Remdesivir group is 4% male with an average age of 62.0. Since we have large population level data showing the risk of death from Covid-19 increases by about a factor of 3 for every decade of age, one would expect the Ivermectin group to have a risk of death of about 0.33 compared to the Remdesivir group. 0.308 with a range from 0.198 to 0.479. So allowing for that age difference, there is no significant difference in the effectiveness of the two treatments.
Dr Campbell gives the wrong link for the second study which is this one.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35070575/
I notice Pierre Kory is a co-author.
This was a prospective, observational study based on a citywide prevention program in Itajai, Brazil performed during the second half of 2020. This was a non-blinded trial. The participants chose for themselves whether or not to take Ivermectin. So I wonder if there may have been a selection bias effect. Those who were more risk-averse might have been wearing masks and reducing social contacts as well as deciding to take Ivermectin as compared to the non-ivermectin group. But there is no discussion of this. Also, there seems to be an error in the number of reported male deaths in the Ivermectin group. And again not an RCT.
I looked for RCT’s of Ivermectin for prophylaxis and found a rapid review by Cardwell et al.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8646848/
The 2 RCT’s for ivermectin were very small. One was only about 100 patients in each group, while the other had about 200 in the intervention with half that in the control group. So very thin evidence if there is a benefit. Doctors reporting 14 out of 15 patients showing in their ICU’s who had been taking Ivermectin and all the mentions in the Herman Cain awards suggest it is not an effective prophylactic.
As for Dr Campbell, he is a retired nursing professor, not a physician and is very clear about not prescribing medicines. He refers people to their own physicians for that. And AFIK he does not have a website where he hawks salves and potions. So I do not consider him to be a quack. His dedication to seeking out whatever he can find about Ivermectin studies is admirable if a bit misguided based on the results to date.
As for RCT’s, he did a video on the PRINCIPLE trial which is an ongoing series of RCT’s on various interventions. It found a benefit for budesonide (a steroid) during the inflammatory phase of Covid-19. But the Ivermectin trial has been paused due to supply issues. Dr Campbell wonders if this is related to the drug itself which is cheap and widely available. But I wonder if there is trouble recruiting additional subjects when both molnupiravir and Paxlovid were reporting good effectiveness at treating infected patients?
I do look forward to seeing published results from that trial as well as the ACTIV-6 trial in the U.S.
And this Malaysian trial that was reported recently showed no benefit.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/02/ivermectin-futile-mild-moderate-covid-19-study-finds
So, sorry Lucas. No meatball!
I just watched another video on the Efimenko abstract which Campbell discussed and linked to.
This one includes a clip of an interview of Efimenko himself who explains why they withdrew and decided not to publish the full manuscript.
He notes several limitations of their study, things they couldn’t control for and that it should NOT be used as a basis for claim that ivermectin is an effective treatment for Covid-19.
https://youtu.be/b7oZFW7H9V8
Lucas, I see your brain has similar neural activity that is contained in the petri dish medium. Also, videos are not evidence.
Right on time. Been about a week-time for another loon to bring the USELESS ivermectin panacea up. If it worked? I would have a bucket of pills on my desk to hand out. I DOES NOT WORK.
Also-I’m starting to get pissed off at assholes spreading this garbage. Yesterday evening, we withdrew care from a guy in the ICU. Three generations, dozens of family members looking on. He took ivermectin and didn’t get the vaccine. It didn’t have to be that way.
STOP SPREADING INTENTIONALLY-FALSE BS
@ldw56old
<That’s because it is a conspirocy theory, a favorite of loons everywhere.>
No, it is not. I told you to start reading and find out some of these conspiracies are not just theories but realities. Like I said it is indeed a conspiracy, but not some groundless theory.
No, he’s not. He just has a fundamental insight in macro economics and thus can form his opinion and expectations. In his case he knew when, where and how to invest in real estate. And it seems he was right. All successful investors must have been right most of the times, otherwise they simply would not have been successful. What these people do is predict the future and some are good at it. Warren Buffet as an example we all know.
Nonsens. All you can say is that a human prediction is never certain to happen at a specific time. Timing he damn thing is the complexity.
Nonsens. We based predictions ánd investments on a conspiracy. That was back in March 2020 at exactly the right moment where we bet against the (AEX) index with puts. In the first place because we knew what the conspiracy was. And indeed we became ‘filthy rich’, as this mathematician in this forum before expressed it. This corona virus was created, we knew it would be launched and then hyped by the media. Just read back here if you’re interested.
Have you never heard of Eventy 201? Just before the pandemic. Such coincidence, is it not? Have you never asked yourself why some investors, especially one that wurmed his way into the WHO with a non medical background, invested so much in Big Pharma not long before the pandemic? Why is it that the rich have about doubled their fortune since the pandemic and you have not? All without a basis?
Let the results speak for themselves. Which rethorically applies to you too.
Even if you’re not a scientist, let it be clear that in this area it is more important that you are able to connect the right dots. For this you need a curious nature, a creative mind, intuiton and lots of study.
The only aspect we may be theoretically wrong about is that we will see a period of ‘relaxation’. However, in order to redirect the world as it is intended, this is not what we expect to happen.
So the ‘what’ is clear and you can partly read that at the WEF’s or UN’s website (start with the WEF I would suggest). It’s the ‘when’. On the other hand, all socio economic factors sense in the same ‘not far off’ direction.
And for sure plans may not work out as intended. That’s what we expect. Somewhere in the process something will probably get out of hand, be it unintended or it will just seem that way.
But like I said, that is where it gets interesting. According to the ‘absolute source’ I mentioned, it will seem that our politicians have reached a solution to a seemingly huge problem, but immediatly after their reassuring claim, is where an endphase for most of us begins.
Enough repetition. I’m aware that especially the latter part seems utter nonsens to you and that is just fine. At least that info does not come from me, I’m just an economist and analyst.
Nevertheless, I think there’s worrying times ahead. And for me the troubling thing is that also my intuition tells me this (I literally sense the ‘heat’ in a financial market or in a population and I’m just amazed that most of us don’t), just like this war we have now and many other events in the past that I won’t bother you with.
Time will tell whether the fool is you or it’s me.
“This corona virus was created, we knew it would be launched and then hyped by the media. Just read back here if you’re interested.”
Another conspiracy — that covid is man made. That’s been shown to be crap repeatedly yet the weak-minded (of which you are a poster child) keep pushing it.
“Have you never heard of Eventy 201?”
Yes, how weird for medical organizations to prepare for things.
It bears repeating: the totality of your lack of knowledge of statistics and science, your gullibility for “predicting the future” and your support of the most asinine conspiracy theories, is astounding in its scope. You’ve written a lot of words here, not one of them deserving of any respect.
@Chris
<Lucas, I see your brain has similar neural activity that is contained in the petri dish medium. Also, videos are not evidence.>
Agreed that videos should not be the medium to discuss medical subjects. Nevertheless, what he mentions in this video is just one of the many indications, or better I say proof cause that’s what it is with these numbers, that shows the efficacy of Ivm.
The reports you guys come up with – if at all – all sort of say, well, not much substantial. In general not a real denial about its efficacy; more of a ‘there’s more research necessary’ kind of talk. Isn’t this in fact a shameful postpone, slow down tactics?
“Isn’t this in fact a shameful postpone, slow down tactics?”
No Lucas, your suspicion that that is the case is simply a result of your ignorance.
“I see your brain has similar neural activity that is contained in the petri dish medium.”
And you continue to prove you are as smart as a dish full of agar. You did not even recognize the insult.
Lucas- having read all the comments on this particular Malone post of Orac I have now to conclude that we have here with your dazzling intuition, prophecies and intellect a person of rare quality. I also prophesized ( in my mind) that if I keep reading Orac’s posts and the commenters therein for long enough, that there will recognisably rise from the mass of incoherent dross, which you so ably highlight, someone such as yourself. What a rare privilege it has been.
@Leonard Sugarman
Yes, you’ve said so a couple of times already. Perhaps that’s a bit age related, but who cares.
I don’t bother whether it is popular what I say or not. Worse still, in general that would not even be a good sign as this means association with the many that ‘lost it’. No thank you, I prefer not to be guided by what’s accepted as normal if that normal means corruption, selfishness, arrogance, ‘me first’ mentality, deloyalty, slandering, unfaithfulness, lying, lack of empathy. Remarkably, the ones that sunk deepest, redicule the most.
Fortunately not all have become low lifes, but get to know people better and you’ll find that under circumstances lots of them show these characteristics. They do not realise that this behaviour is not so smart in the end, even though they get away with it now.
Poking fun at someone is your choice, go ahead if you need to.
Still I wonder how someone your age and experience is too blind to see the cultural and socio economic changes in society that are so blatantly visible and still live under the impression things will be like they were yesterday. Not that it was all fine before, no it wassn’t. But the sliding scale and acceptance of it all is just not the best sign.
@MedicalYeti
<Also-I’m starting to get pissed off at assholes spreading this garbage. Yesterday evening, we withdrew care from a guy in the ICU. Three generations, dozens of family members looking on. He took ivermectin and didn’t get the vaccine. It didn’t have to be that way.>
Fine, I’m starting to get pissed off too. Three days ago a good acquintance of mine in her mid fiftees died; background was colon cancer that was operated half a year ago, while diagnosed in June of last year. The mesenteric (if that’s the correct word) was affected, so principly no good prospect. Nevertheless she was operated successfully and until about three weeks ago the checks had been all fine, no metastasis. She was operated by one of the best surgeons in the world, fyi. We happen to have them.
Just shortly before the moment that all of a sudden there was cancer literally through her entire body, she was vaccinated (after having had covid in the first semester of last year that did not give any complication whatsoever, btw); I know this because I asked this a good friend of her yesterday. Call this a coincidence, but wasn’t it the vaccine that weakened her immune system and so the cancer came into remission? This is not the first case that docters and nurses describe of extreme and sudden cases of remission shortly after vaccination.
Look at the rediculous long list of side effects in the ‘Pfizer documents’, shall we bet it’s described there as well?
Well anyway, thank you very much, now she’s dead. And what for did she get this vaccination anyway? Just to make sure or something?
So fine, now we have a remaining husband and good personal friend a couple of weeks before his retirement. Will he enjoy life now! Dammit!
Second incident that I heard this week was of a relative’s dietitian who communicated that her father in law almost immediatly after vaccination got a stroke and died. Certainly not that old. Great.
All in all: be so balanced to speak up about the dark side of these vaccines as well, please. Here you have another one or two! Again.
And then, people die despite being vaccinated. So they get the crap but what for? In most cases all you then hear is bullshit like: “yes, but there was underlying this or underlying that”. You complete morons, that is why one takes a vaccine! Don’t use it as a retarded excuse. Idiots!
“Just shortly before the moment that all of a sudden there was cancer literally through her entire body, she was vaccinated (after having had covid in the first semester of last year that did not give any complication whatsoever, btw); I know this because I asked this a good friend of her yesterday. Call this a coincidence, but wasn’t it the vaccine that weakened her immune system and so the cancer came into remission? This is not the first case that docters and nurses describe of extreme and sudden cases of remission shortly after vaccination.”
I’ll take things that never happened but still get posted by serial liars for $1000.
@ldw56old
<“This corona virus was created, we knew it would be launched and then hyped by the media. Just read back here if you’re interested.
Another conspiracy — that covid is man made. That’s been shown to be crap repeatedly yet the weak-minded (of which you are a poster child) keep pushing it.>
No way, you still really have no clue what is going on, do you?
<“Have you never heard of Eventy 201?”
Yes, how weird for medical organizations to prepare for things.>
Research in this spike proteins has been going on for at least 20 years. But hey, all of a sudden, just before the outbreak of a coronavirus pandemic we prepare… a corona virus pandemic. Such amazing coincidence, isn’t it? Look you ldw56old, you believe in nothing. But you sure believe in a hell of a lot coincidence.
No, you moron, the coming 5 years or so will be the judge of that. We’ll see who laughs or cries.
Note that I was already right about this war going on now. Next be sure about chaos ahead. And once it’s there, I’m sure you will make mention of “asinine conspiracy theories” again.
Be yourself and do stay arrogant till the end.
“No way, you still really have no clue what is going on, do you?”
Since I’m the one with the understanding of reality and science, I do have a clue. It just seems weird to you since, with you being a serial liar and conspiracy monger, reality never meshes with what you ‘think’.
@Chris
Once you grow up you’ll realise there’s a difference between recognition and picking up on.
“Je bent als een koe die in de wei staat te loeien.” Look that up if you wish, it’s Dutch fyi.
What for would you need the insult anyway? Couldn’t you handle with civilised communication?
@ldw56old
<I’ll take things that never happened but still get posted by serial liars for $1000.>
Oh no.
And don’t make it a bet cause you loose that money.
That’s an advantage of not telling nonsens, you never have to read things back. Go ahead, all wil be in line.
“And don’t make it a bet cause you loose that money.”
I’m not impressed by a fortune teller who thinks “loose” means the same thing as “lose”. Especially when that fortune teller claims to be an economist.
There’s just nothing about you or your comments that should be taken seriously — certainly not believed.
@ldw56old
<I’m not impressed by a fortune teller who thinks “loose” means the same thing as “lose”>
Thanks for the lesson. And while we’re busy be so good to tell us what a “conspirocy theory” is:
<That’s because it is a conspirocy theory, a favorite of loons everywhere.>
Look you wiseguy, I speak six languages fluently. Tell us how much better your score is.
@ldw56old
Such fanfare with your “understanding of reality and science”. Good for you.
Realize that most liars think others lie in the same way they do.
Why would you call anyone a liar? I have never done this here, as far as I remember. But you did a couple of times already during the short period we communicate.
Not that I would need lies, but realize it would make no sense at all. I told you repeatedly that people will ultimately pay the price for shitty behaviour.
I just wrote to Leonard Sugarman about the current “corruption, selfishness, arrogance, ‘me first’ mentality, deloyalty, slandering, unfaithfulness, lying, lack of empathy”. Now suppose I lie about these cases I described and someone reading these posts bases his or her decision not to get vaccinated on the casualties I described so far. Wouldn’t that make me in fact a criminal in case that person would die because of attracting covid and not being vaccinated? For sure it would make me an accessory, even though the worldly law doesn’t punish.
You see ldw56old, your accusation makes no sense in this respect too. There’s simply no prospect in lying.
It is as described. And it pisses me off, I can assure you. MedicalYeti better shut his damn mouth!
“Not that I would need lies”
Yet you use them: you lie about a world-wide conspiracy. You lie about covid being ‘created’. You lie about ivermectin being an effective treatment.
I’m not sure how you can be be so brazen about constantly spewing crap about the world-wide decline in morals at the same time you are repeating the lies mentioned above, but you are doing it consistently.
“MedicalYeti better shut his damn mouth!”
I think I know where MedicalYeti is coming from: a position of knowing the science, and knowing that low lifes like you who keep the lie that ivermectin works pose huge risks to people. Anyone who takes your word on what works over the advice of someone with a real knowledge of things is putting themselves at risk.
Many of your specious assertions and claims show you to be clueless and dishonest. The fact that you continue to push demonstrably false “medical” information simply because you hallucinate and see conspiracies everywhere is worse: you are choosing to pretend to be a “brave resistance fighter” against the establishment, placing boosting your ego over the safety of others.
I’ll do nothing of the sort.
@ldw56old
Absolutely so. Most what you read on predictions is rambling, as for a human being there are just too many variables to ‘prophesize’.
I’m no prophet either. That is why it is not possible to timeline it all. But, connecting dots on what’s going on, I can. It has been my work and I know what I’m saying.
Plus what I mention is meanwhile unavoidable and is not far off, which means it will happen. Human nature will not change and certainly not overnight.
Then I know about the plans for us; they are there but indeed there is this possiblity that parties will refrain from it. But that would mean a recess at most.
What will happen in the end comes from an ‘absolute source’, not from me. Be sure that is correct.
All in all there’s no hocus-pocus.
Again with your bogus “I know the future”
“But, connecting dots on what’s going on, I can. It has been my work and I know what I’m saying.
Plus what I mention is meanwhile unavoidable and is not far off, which means it will happen. Human nature will not change and certainly not overnight.
Then I know about the plans for us; they are there but indeed there is this possiblity that parties will refrain from it. But that would mean a recess at most.
What will happen in the end comes from an ‘absolute source’, not from me. Be sure that is correct.
All in all there’s no hocus-pocus.”
Do you know anyone stupid enough to believe you? If so — how do they manage to walk upright?
@ldw56old
Is it a lie that there are concrete plans to take away your freedom? No, it’s not, but I’d definately call it a conspiracy, cause that’s precisely what this is.
No, this corona virus was created in a lab. You might read for yourself only how long its research has been going on. That’s no proof but may give you an indication at least.
That’s no lie on its own. Truth is I’ve never said much about Ivermectin. But there’s lots of info that shows its efficacy, call the people behind it liars, not me. I’m not really in one of these pro or contra camps. These vaccines seem related to politics, but I’m explicitly not into that as it is the most treacherous business I know of. It’s just that I have reason to doubt the safety of these jabs, like I’ve described in extenso here.
<I’m not sure how you can be be so brazen about constantly spewing crap about the world-wide decline in morals at the same time you are repeating the lies mentioned above, but you are doing it consistently.>
What do you mean by “be be so brazen”? Or are you just stuttering here? Just ment as a lesson to you to stop being childish.
But seriously, I do not lie. Do not want to or need to; nothing to gain here either.
“It’s just that I have reason to doubt the safety of these jabs, like I’ve described in extenso here.”
You mean as you’ve lied extensively about by making up your own horror stories.
@ldw56old
<“MedicalYeti better shut his damn mouth!”
I think I know where MedicalYeti is coming from: a position of knowing the science, and knowing that low lifes like you who keep the lie that ivermectin works pose huge risks to people. Anyone who takes your word on what works over the advice of someone with a real knowledge of things is putting themselves at risk.>
Medical Yeti comes from such a position of knowing and science that he even sweared that blindness in one eye due to the vaccine is outragious nonsens. I guess meanwhile he has learned his lesson.
What he suggested here now is absolutely not done for a scientist. And bloody irritating!
The fact is that there’s a lot of betrayal in this medical field and I showed with external statistical research that this is so true. Come on!
Clueless? What are you babbling about? Clueless in what and why?
And no, I’m not here to argue over some medical treatment. It’s just that physicians should realize that they are abused for a politically motivated agenda. One that will even turn in their own disadvantage.
“I showed with external statistical research that this is so true. Come on!”
You showed no such thing — you showed a lot of crap.
“Clueless? What are you babbling about? Clueless in what and why?
And no, I’m not here to argue over some medical treatment. It’s just that physicians should realize that they are abused for a politically motivated agenda. One that will even turn in their own disadvantage.”
Yup, clueless — as you keep posting bullshit advice on covid and conspiracies and don’t realize that every little thing you write is complete bs.
Sadly guy, no…I have not “Learned my lesson.” I just had better things to do for a few days than argue with a sick loon on the Internet.
Why do you think you could “Shut someone up?” Isn’t that what jackasses like you rail on about? Freedom? Yet all you and your ilk ever want is to “Win” or “Shut people up.”
You won’t win. You’re a disturbed person who takes joy in watching the world burn. People are seeing through it. Your day in the sun is fading as folks are less and less frightened by the pandemic. You blew it. You over/underplayed your hand. Your revolution is not coming.
You will wake up tomorrow the same sad, pathetic purveyor of outlandish horsecrap you went to bed as. No adoration, no masses thronging to your teachings.
@ldw56oldsays:
Indeed, I know some relevant parts of it and so should you. You are the one to blame for not knowing, because you could have. And should have.
I really don’t loose sleep because of that. I don’t care at all. It is not my responsibility what one does with his life.
But I try and help people when I can. Not to the extreme, but nevertheless.
Lucas- since entering the world in April 1940 i have noticed one or two changes in the world and in my own environment. In that time I have learned that ‘good’ things are worth repeating, even if tedious. Unfortunately there is a great deal of repetition of, shall we say ‘nonsense’ for brevity. You will recognise this since you are very close to the action.
@Orac,
I have a long comment in moderation. Somehow I messed up my commenting and my ‘nym got switched.
Perhaps you could correct that when you free it up???
Anyway, have a good weekend.
@ldw56old
<“MedicalYeti better shut his damn mouth!” I think I know where MedicalYeti is coming from: a position of knowing the science, and knowing that low lifes like you who keep the lie that ivermectin works pose huge risks to people. Anyone who takes your word on what works over the advice of someone with […]
I take back the word “damn” and try to show MY some respect. However, it is young physicians like him that have ruined the lifes of two family members by misdiagnosing and being too short through the bend. As a result I’ve seen more hospitals from the inside MY has, I’m sure. And as far as I’m concerned, as a result I had a heavy longlasting burnout. Better these physicians stop acting king of their castle. MY strongly denied here too that the blindness in one eye after vaccination was absolutely impossible; but meanwhile he will have made up his mind. Things may go terribly wrong if they misdiagnose in the same way. Which often happens, I regret to have experienced.
<“I showed with external statistical research that this is so true. Come on!”>
You claimed an understanding of “reality and science”. This means you should be capable to understand the report of these statisticians. So when will you finally read it?
And if you did, what is so difficult to understand for you? The fraud is clear enough: the victims of vaccination are count in the unvaccinated during 14 days after vaccination. And that’s precisely when by far most of the victims fall after each round of vaccination.
Others following this blog will remember that before I knew about this report and the research of the mentioned professor Psychology, I made it clear that the official databases had to be way off. Calculation of chance made clear that there was indeed reason to extrapolate the numbers I came across; don’t think anyone can fool me on the subject. Then the statisticians pointed the finger to the cause of the underreporting. The professor found out that this happens in so many other countries.
So again, what is there not to understand? On what ground are you accusing me of bringing a ‘conspiracy theory’ here?
<“Yup, clueless — as you keep posting bullshit advice on covid and conspiracies and don’t realize that every little thing you write is complete bs.”>
I do not give “advice on covid” and never have.
For sure there are conspiracies going on. Right before your eyes. And it’s your freedom and your money (been saying this for a couple of years and has meanwhile started btw) that is at stake. At some point matters will take an unexpected turn and everyone’s life will be at stake.
I’m sorry if you don’t like this. With the right attitude you can find out for yourself; or you simply ignore, whatever.
“However, it is young physicians like him that have ruined the lifes of two family members by misdiagnosing and being too short through the bend. ”
I am always amazed at your ability to continually up your game of demonstrating just how big an asshole you are. Of course, your asinine assertion here
“The fraud is clear enough: the victims of vaccination are count in the unvaccinated during 14 days after vaccination. And that’s precisely when by far most of the victims fall after each round of vaccination.”
that the vaccines are killing people, based on your ignorance and gullibility, simply cements it.
I don’t know why you’ve chosen to be such a dishonest and utterly vile person. I don’t know why you’ve chosen fact free conspiracies over doing the hard work of real research. I’m guessing it’s a combination of your inability to do the hard work and your desire to be seen as an enlightened outsider bucking “the powers that be”. It could be something else — like you’ve always been a con man and you see this as a new challenge. Whatever it is, your continued pushing of bullcrap and dangerous advice doesn’t say anything good about you, and it’s clear you don’t care. Eff off.
How do you know I’m young? (I’m not) This seems to be some kind of dipshit pejorative and it won’t work. Young, old, or something in between changes NOTHING. Doctors much younger than I perform about 75% of the daily work in medicine.
You are a SAD LIAR. You made these “Family members” up from whole cloth. I hear it all the time from people like you. If it is to be believed? There shoujd be HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of “Vaccine-maimed” among us. I have never seen so much as ONE case. Neither has anyone else in my region.
VACCINES DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. They do not injure people. They do not interact with our DNA. It doesn’t matter if the person reminding you of this is 25 or 75-it’s TRUE.
@ldw56old
<“However, it is young physicians like him that have ruined the lifes of two family members by misdiagnosing and being too short through the bend. ”
I am always amazed at your ability to continually up your game of demonstrating just how big an asshole you are. Of course, your asinine assertion here>
You will be amazed how much actually goes wrong in the medical sector. Ask MedicalYeti, if he’s honest he’ll probably admit this.
Further I’m surprised how suspicious you are. Is that because you yourself are not trustworthy at all?
Unfortunately what I say here is again true.
<“The fraud is clear enough: the victims of vaccination are count in the unvaccinated during 14 days after vaccination. And that’s precisely when by far most of the victims fall after each round of vaccination.”
that the vaccines are killing people, based on your ignorance and gullibility, simply cements it.>
So you still haven’t done any reading. Blame yourself for your ignorance; do keep your eyes closed. I give up.
Of course you don’t know. Simply because there is no reason to think of.
I’m not enlightened. I know what’s happening in our economies, the healthy basis has been taken away over the decades by money printing / exponential piling up of debt and interest to zero. As a result what may look stabile to you is in fact very fragile. If this hasn’t been done on purpose, you may explain to me how this could have happened.
We’re now living in a period where literally all is in bubbly environment. Sweet dreams if you think we can continue like that and keep the same standard of living. No way we can’t.
In fact the luxury of your parents will be paid by you. Haven’t you noticed the strong rise in inflation meanwhile? Try and figure out for yourself where we’re heading with unchanged policy and where we’re heading by tapering and rising interest. Both ways you’re screwed and you’ll pay the price for it all. The real risk is a ‘hard landing’. Just raise the rates and your there.
Anyways, the opportunity this all will give your government is a new digital coin and abolishment of cash. Any idea of the downsides for you? You ignorant fool.
“You will be amazed how much actually goes wrong in the medical sector. ”
No, nobody here has ever said the medical sector is perfect. The point is that you are lying about things that, when people who actually understand things investigate them, are found to be non-existent.
The fact that you are repeatedly foolish enough to use for the old post hoc ergo propter hoc (‘what other explanation could there be for these things?”) indicates either that you aren’t very bright or you aren’t at all honest. Your repeated “these horrible things happen all the time, especially to people I know” bullcrap pushes the conclusion to the second option: you don’t have a shred of honesty in you. The foolish conspiracies you push about the future and more are simply the final data points.
@ldw56old
You keep accusing and cursing. Apparently you have such faith in the current system and their leaders, that this is your usual reaction after whatever signal going against that belief.
You choose if you listen to despots and psychopaths instead of thinking for yourself. Do follow them over the cliff.
For what reason in the first place would you want to communicate with a ‘liar’, ‘asshole’, ‘utterly vile’ person and the like? I’d call that unhealthy and I think there are more sociable ways of spending your time.
“Apparently you have such faith in the current system and their leaders, that this is your usual reaction after whatever signal going against that belief.”
No, it’s my reaction to scum like you who push asinine conspiracies and dangerous lies about vaccine safety simply to make themselves look important.
The fact that you’re clueless about the science and studies behind these vaccines doesn’t give you license to be a serial liar, yet you chose that path. That’s why you are an asshole.
Ran across this article on Malone’s classy way of responding to criticism and perceived competition.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/robert-malone-targets-physician-who-alerted-medical-board-to-misinformation-69719
[…] that he “invented mRNA vaccines” even as he is now a bona fide antivaccine crank and conspiracy theorist who claims that the vaccines are causing mass death and claimed on Joe Rogan’s podcast that […]
@MedicalYeti
How do you know I’m a sad liar? (I’m not).
I think no older physician would waste time at this forum. Furthermore, young or old is a relative understanding. You might be 28 years of age, which you may not call young. But for a physician I would because of a lack of experience.
Still it’s not clear to me what is your purpose here, and more so if you’re not supported in any way. Your ‘work’ here doesn’t make sense without it; the words “for free” do not fit in your world, so? Get a fat bonus or a form of support? If not you have to be young.
I’m not too keen on misty constructions. Just like the background of the rediculous articles in the rediculous quantities that your boss David Gorski filles datacenters full with.
<Young, old, or something in between changes NOTHING. Doctors much younger than I perform about 75% of the daily work in medicine.>
Unfortunately this is so true. Barely out of school and they’re the ones you’ll regularly meet in the emergency rooms. And that’s exactly where we met this young neurologist in training, making huge mistakes and refusing to do any meaningful research. But that’s the revenue model of course, I get that. Btw, you hardly ever meet real senior physicians in a hospital.
No. That would mean I have an extremely vivid, hardly imaginable, imagination. Ask yourself what sense would it make to get family members into the equation? And how sick would that be?
I don’t know what you “hear all the time” or for what possible reason you hear this. May be you have voices inside of your head that won’t leave you alone, but I can hardly think of a reason why you would hear such things from “people like me all the time”. People like me, funny. You mean people trying to reason with you what the hell happens for which you seem to close your eyes?
And indeed, there are hundreds of thousands vaccine-maimed among us. Do your homework. Please.
As a sidenote, just this afternoon we happened to burry that acquintance of mine in her mid fiftees I mentioned before, with sudden and very aggressive cancer in remission soon after vaccination. No proof if this was due to vaccination of course, but how much sense would it make otherwise? No discussion necessary here btw, I understand the case is too soft.
My initial thought when reading these lines was the blunt denial of the holocaust.
I would advice you to study: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356756711_Latest_statistics_on_England_mortality_data_suggest_systematic_mis-categorisation_of_vaccine_status_and_uncertain_effectiveness_of_Covid-19_vaccination
Also I myself heard of (out of the first or the second hand) far too many cases. These are not untrue, why would they be? And if indeed true, you tell me how we could possibly describe them as unrelated to the vaccines.
All in all, I wonder of you aren’t the “sad liar” you accuse me of? Or perhaps liar isn’t factually what this is.
Putting away someone as a liar is apparently the agreed upon action here when there’s no word left to say. Just call the person a liar, preferably in capital letters and you’re there, no discussion necessary. Very, very cheap that is.
Still the question remains into what strange denial mode you seem to have brought yourselves. Or worse, you are paid to a priori deny.
“People like me, funny. You mean people trying to reason with you what the hell happens for which you seem to close your eyes?”
Again, not wanting to speak for medicalyeti, but if I had to guess, he’s referrring to serial liars, like you.
“And indeed, there are hundreds of thousands vaccine-maimed among us. Do your homework. Please.”
That homework points to the fact that you just spewed another one of the lies you claim you don’t need.
“Also I myself heard of (out of the first or the second hand) far too many cases. These are not untrue, why would they be?.”
Because, like you, the people who spin these falsehoods want to make themselves seem the brave outsiders fighting a (in actuality mythical) battle. In other words — you liars band together,
People you linked think that one should use all cause mortality to do cost benefit analysis. This is obviously wrong, because all deaths cannot be caused by vaccines, You may consider CICP data. There are 127 death claims against COVID vaccines, way less rhan reported to VAERS. Obviously most cases reported to VAERS are there just because of legal duty
@MedicalYeti
That is sad indeed.
No, people continue to spit out the silliest things and you can’t stop them. I do not imagine you quit this one-sided, misguiding crab of yours either.
Tell me, alone how many vaccinated died because of covid? Where have you mentioned any such case here?
Revolution? Remarkable word you use here, the ‘Fourth Industrial Revolution’ is how this disgusting plan is named. And your silly vaccines are part of this magnificent plan. You leftist jackasses, why don’t you just leave me alone? Go to hell with your revolutions.
“You won’t win”, that’s precisely how these wonderful psychopaths of yours view this. But this isn’t about winning a game, it’s the opposite. Together with your psychopaths, you better take care you won’t be losing it.
And really, I take no joy in watching the world burn at all. Not that I’m particulary fond of people I meet here, but there’s no reason for hate and even wish a simple happy life for all. Just like I visualize you view a patient it doesn’t seem to be working out well. But it is assholes behind the scenes that have other plans. And it’s self destructive fools I meet here that think it’s great or simply have no idea what is going on. I would redirect my antenna.
“Folks are indeed less and less frightened by the pandemic”, finally. This is exactly the fearmongering I mentioned lots of times here that should be stopped, as there has never been a reasonable ground for it. But it is your leaders, the WHO and the like that have put the population under lots of anxiety. And pressured it into a choice to either get vaccinated or be excluded from society, pay fines and what more! The amazing brutality of you to try and turn that around now! Now look at the result; only the rise in suicides this has led to is horrifying. Blame the ones that intentionally plunge the world into chaos, not me. I just warn for the consequences these psychopats orchestrated. Now it’s a war and not a pandemic. What’s next?
And like it or not, it has been your own government that is primarily responsible for the distorted economies worldwide that alone cost me millions of euros. With its short term approach, living beyond its means and imposing of its will to so many countries, and most financed with debt. How smart.
We’ll see about that “horsecrap”.
I don’t need adoration, otherwise I would have started some YouTube channel with my name all over the place.
Better watch yourself. And if you don’t, I wish for you guys some period of relaxation.
“Better watch yourself”
Is that a threat?
@ldw56old
You don’t make clear exactly you point at here. F.e. I invited MedicalYeti to communicate with some of the victims I described, in person himself. Be it through email, Whatsapp or phone. I expect them to cooperate in telling him as a disbelieving physician the terrible experiences related to the vaccines. But MY seems not interested.
There are no lies, I’ve got nothing to hide. So I’m open to proof whatever you like, if reasonably possible.
<… you aren’t very bright>
Of course not, I’m just an Economist, an Analyst, an Industrial Designer, a CAD technician and speak 6 languages fluently. No, not very bright indeed.
Btw, titles give you an indication of IQ but indeed do not say it all. And it has certainly nothing to do with personal choices regarding good or bad; precisely that is what ultimately counts.
<. Your repeated “these horrible things happen all the time, especially to people I know” bullcrap pushes the conclusion to the second option: you don’t have a shred of honesty in you. The foolish conspiracies you push about the future and more are simply the final data points.>
Like I said, I invited MY to learn about the downsides of these vaccines. If he’s interested I might ask some of these victim’s relatives that I mentioned before. I don’t know if they would be willing to cooperate or not, but I can imagine some would, as I would be open to the invitation.
Furthermore we will see what the future brings. Like I said, we know more then you do.
“Of course not, I’m just an Economist, an Analyst, an Industrial Designer, a CAD technician and speak 6 languages fluently. No, not very bright indeed.”
Given your propensity to spin falsehoods about the horrible things related to vaccines there is no reason to believe that.
@Orac
Some in your team adviced me the use of these < > symbols for quotations, but seem to have stopped functioning.
Before these ” ” symbols didn’t work anymore, which was the reason for the advice.
No, neither ” ” nor < > has ever been used for blockquote (there is a BIG hint and test in that statement).
@ldw56old
“Because, like you, the people who spin these falsehoods want to make themselves seem the brave outsiders fighting a (in actuality mythical) battle. In other words — you liars band together,”
No no, I let anyone fight whatever he or she wants. I don’t take part in their fights.
Indeed I’m an outsider and always have been. One reason is that I don’t take part in politics. I might actually hire an army of people to ‘fight’ for me, just like ‘Big Pharma’ does, but I don’t.
I do not see the advantage of spinning falsehoods. Why the waste of energy, time and thus money?
Besides, there are so many beautiful things in life I prefer to focus on instead. The projects I have in mind alone are too many to finish in one lifetime. So I’m sorry, wrong again.
“I do not see the advantage of spinning falsehoods.”
And yet, as you repeatedly demonstrate, you continue to do just that.
I’m not going to waste time talking to more serial-liar lunatics who will turn around and try to sue me, “cancel” me, or scream at me. If they are ill they should present to their nearest emergency department or urgent care for help.
“Besides, there are so many beautiful things in life I prefer to focus on instead. The projects I have in mind alone are too many to finish in one lifetime.”
Ever consider how many projects you’d be able to finish if you weren’t spending so much time on lengthy RI comments?
@Dangerous Bacon
“Ever consider how many projects you’d be able to finish if you weren’t spending so much time on lengthy RI comments?”
Yes.
Yet here you are.
@doug
“No, neither ” ” nor < > has ever been used for blockquote (there is a BIG hint and test in that statement).”
Have a look at JustaTechsays:
January 17, 2022 at 6:55 pm
and:
prlsays:
January 25, 2022 at 6:55 pm
It appears that at long last you have figured out how to use ordinary quotation marks and line spacing in a manner consistent with that used by most people.
prl’s comment contained every bit of information required by anyone with any ability as an “analyst” to find information about how to use blockquote.
@MedicalYeti
““Better watch yourself” Is that a threat?”
The context shows you it’s not a threat.
The only threats – an avalanche of it – has come from those morons of yours when refusing your vaccinations. Get lost.
Request denied, dingleberry.
@TBruce
“Yet here you are.”
Indeed, such irrationality. Isn’t it a loss of time and energy that could have better spent?
@ldw56old
“And yet, as you repeatedly demonstrate, you continue to do just that.”
In your mind perhaps. In reality not.
Every time you say vaccines kill people you’re lying. Every time you link rises in deaths to rises in vaccines and asset the vaccines are responsible you’re telling a lie. Every time you push ivermectin as a possible cure you’re telling a lie.
Every time you assert a grand conspiracy behind the “manufactured” virus you’re telling lie.
Every time you say you’re not telling lies you’re telling a lie. You e spent so much of your life being dishonest you don’t even recognize it any more. Everyone else does.
It’s time you add some proof to your accusations instead of you meaningless repeating them.
You’re like some whore that doesn’t care about her pimp, as long as he pays her. Clearly you have some dubious interest here and it is more important to you then the truth for sure.
Whether that interest is purely financial or a brain abnormality that makes you feel uncomfortable when your ‘certainties’ are at issue.
Would be nice though if you’d stop dancing to that same tune and showed some character.
And like I said so many times: I’m not pushing Ivermectin or whatever remedy. Isn’t it you pushing risky vaccines?
Yeah. His “dubious” interest is tell the truth. The horror! He must be a shill!!!
“Isn’t it you pushing risky vaccines?”
Except, as the data shows to people who understand it (not you) instead of having a desire to lie about it (that would be you) the risks are minimal. The only “huge numbers of deaths” from it spring from your lies.
@ldw56old
“Given your propensity to spin falsehoods about the horrible things related to vaccines there is no reason to believe that.”
Perhaps so. Or these are no falsehoods at all.
“Or these are no falsehoods at all.”
Except, you know, data and reality show you are pushing lies.
No way! Data clearly shows lots of deaths due to the vaccines.
It is statistics that has brought to light that excess mortality under the vaccinated has been written under the unvaccinated. And it is this excess mortality that shows the real number of deaths due to the vaccines. These numbers are huge!
You scumbag!
Prove your lies. Post factual, reliable sources that show these vaccine deaths. I’ve never seen a single death. Neither has any other doctor in our network (Mayo, maybe you’ve heard of it?)
You are FULL OF SHIT.
NO ONE IS DYING FROM COVID VACCINATION. Period. The end.
You keep making the claim that
Could you perhaps provide a citation to where you got that data from?
As for your latest Campbell video, he talks about an open-label self-selected trial in one city in Brazil. So not an RCT, no meatball.
If ivermectin worked that well for prophylaxis, the ICU’s wouldn’t be full of patients with their ivermectin bottles in the drawer of the bedside table.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34573986/
And of course we have lots of evidence for an intervention that does reduce the likelihood of SARS-CoV-2 infection, serious disease, hospitalization and death. But you are arguing against that.
@Aarno Syvänen
“People you linked think that one should use all cause mortality to do cost benefit analysis. This is obviously wrong, because all deaths cannot be caused by vaccines, You may consider CICP data. There are 127 death claims against COVID vaccines, way less rhan reported to VAERS. Obviously most cases reported to VAERS are there just because of legal duty”
Hello Aarno, nice to meet you again here.
If you could clarify your post a bit?
If you have a vaccine injury, why not claim compensation ? There is CICP for that (it covers all countermeasures, not just vaccines).:
https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data#table-1
141 death claims has been filed. Many VAERS reports are filed because there is a legal obligation to do so. You must file medical records, however.
You will notice there is claims againt HCQ and ivermection, too.
But what exactly is the point you try to make?
Huh ? Compensation claims are better estimate of actual innjuries than VAERS reports. There are currently 141 claims of death caused by vaccines,way less than VAERS reports.
You will notice, too,that some people claim that HCQ or ivermection caused deaths
@All
Why don’t you have a look at another interesting study about this miracle drug Ivermectin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz4adJXLHgA
Have you seen the amazing results of the drug? Or are you still in denial mode?
Clearly you people are deceivers. You’ve got blood on your hands.
Do ypu think youtube video is a study. Try to post RCT, it is more convincing
Perhaps Lucas likes YouTube videos because they make it easier for him to obfuscate what it is he is taking about. I notice he never cites a relevant statement or tries to justify whatever conclusion he thinks we can draw from it.
I discussed the same video yesterday on this thread.
It’s an open label, self-selected study. So even thought it shows interesting results, those need to be confirmed in an RCT. There are just a few RCT’s with only a few hundred subjects total. And the results are only suggestive.
I’m also getting a bit disappointed in Dr Campbell. He seems to start each ivermectin video talking about how the inventors got a Nobel Prize because it’s so great for treating parasitic diseased. That’s nice, but that doesn’t make it good for treating viruses.
He doesn’t seem to get that not all peer reviewed research is of equal quality. It’s almost like he’s treating them as part of his text book. This is in the text book, therefore it’s true.
And then he complains about the journal not following up and publishing the manuscript of the abstract he had talked about. I’m pretty sure that was the one about ivermectin versus remdesivir. It was an observational study from medical records. I saw a video interview clip where the first author was explaining they had decided not to publish the full manuscript because it was subsumed by more recent research (such as the I-TECH study?) and didn’t really show ivermectin was an effective treatment anyway.
@Aarno Syvänen
“Do ypu think youtube video is a study. Try to post RCT, it is more convincing”
No of course not. But you can simply click on the link to the study given there: https://www.cureus.com/articles/82162-ivermectin-prophylaxis-used-for-covid-19-a-citywide-prospective-observational-study-of-223128-subjects-using-propensity-score-matching
Not exactly RCT. Interesting thing is that this is about prevention, not about cure. It would be strange that a drug (not a vaccine) would prevent a disease, but not cure it.
@squirrelelite
“Perhaps Lucas likes YouTube videos because they make it easier for him to obfuscate what it is he is taking about. I notice he never cites a relevant statement or tries to justify whatever conclusion he thinks we can draw from it.
I discussed the same video yesterday on this thread.
It’s an open label, self-selected study. So even thought it shows interesting results, those need to be confirmed in an RCT. There are just a few RCT’s with only a few hundred subjects total. And the results are only suggestive.
I’m also getting a bit disappointed in Dr Campbell. He seems to start each ivermectin video talking about how the inventors got a Nobel Prize because it’s so great for treating parasitic diseased. That’s nice, but that doesn’t make it good for treating viruses.
He doesn’t seem to get that not all peer reviewed research is of equal quality. It’s almost like he’s treating them as part of his text book. This is in the text book, therefore it’s true.
And then he complains about the journal not following up and publishing the manuscript of the abstract he had talked about. I’m pretty sure that was the one about ivermectin versus remdesivir. It was an observational study from medical records. I saw a video interview clip where the first author was explaining they had decided not to publish the full manuscript because it was subsumed by more recent research (such as the I-TECH study?) and didn’t really show ivermectin was an effective treatment anyway.”
“Perhaps Lucas…”, always needing your associates. Isn’t this an indication of the lack of significance, perhaps of self confidence too? Or intellectual abilities for that matter? So childish.
Those YouTube videos I now and then post here simply because there is no in depth discussion possible with you ‘pro-vaxxers’; your religion is so exalted above everything – certainly above reality – that it is useless to discuss just medical studies on a for you loaded topic. And since most of you are more visually oriented then theoratically, the chances of you paying attention is simply the highest with visual content.
And then, I’m not here to discuss medicins, as I’ve said many times before. Nevertheless, the study is an interesting one. Again.
I wonder how long you keep hiding behind the created barriers and formalities, so that you can go on denying and keep holding back in favor of these commercially much more attractive vaccines.
And there’s this lame excuse as always: “The results are only suggestive”. Well, what exact substantive objection do you have this time?
Aren’t you jointly responsible for holding back for so long an apparently very good medicin in the treatment of and prophylaxis for covid? And this with a very low risk profile.
@squirrelelite
“You keep making the claim that Data clearly shows lots of deaths due to the vaccines.
It is statistics that has brought to light that excess mortality under the vaccinated has been written under the unvaccinated.
Could you perhaps provide a citation to where you got that data from?”
It has been discussed here; you may start and open the two links in this post: Lucassays:
January 21, 2022 at 7:56 pm
“As for your latest Campbell video, he talks about an open-label self-selected trial in one city in Brazil. So not an RCT, no meatball.”
Please explain more in detail why the results of this peer reviewed study cannot be trusted, as compared to an RCT?
“If ivermectin worked that well for prophylaxis, the ICU’s wouldn’t be full of patients with their ivermectin bottles in the drawer of the bedside table.”
And you say this in the knowledge that the “ivermectin bottles” are withheld from these patients; that’s a lurid joke. Otherwise I wait for your numerical substantiation.
“Further evidence is needed to fine-tune potential indications and optimal treatment protocols for ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19.”
For how long have I been hearing that same crab? Retard, retard, retard and meanwhile fill your dirty pockets.
If it was just about dirty cash, it wouldn’t be so horrible. Unfortunately it’s more then just financial undressing.
“ I wonder how long you keep hiding behind the created barriers and formalities, so that you can go on denying and keep holding back in favor of these commercially much more attractive vaccines.”
No dickhead, science doesn’t rely on anecdotes, which is what you have. You do realize that you are calling for the dismissal of all statistical analysis in lieu of unsubstantiated stories don’t you? (Rhetorical question: it’s been clear your understanding of statistics stops with calculating an average.)
Your “evidence” can be put aside because it isn’t really evidence. End of story.
Sorry for a few typos in that one. Here is the first of Susan Oliver’s Ivermectin videos.
https://youtu.be/-zWK_-4mfXs
Lucas,
I used the word ‘perhaps’ to indicate I was speculating on your motivation. I do not know or even claim to know what you are thinking or why you choose to make a particular comment.
I don’ need associates to endorse me to motivate me to comment here or elsewhere. I write what makes sense to me for my own satisfaction. If it can inform someone else, so much the better.
I really would value an in-depth discussion but that requires another person to speak for themself instead of telling us “I’m not here to discuss medicins”. It also helps if they contribute useful information to support their ideas, especially in this forum scientific research.
And you still haven’t provided that citation I requested. I scrolled through your comments and back in January you were going on about the stock market and mentioned one Youtube video about how the vaccines “might” weaken the immune system.
Unlike religion which is based on received wisdom and accepting certain things on faith, science is based on testing our ideas against reality to see if they match and reality works that way. And some of those tests/experiments are more reliable and trustworthy than others, especially in the field of medicine.
Researchers around the world have figured out a methodology for eliminating as many confounders as possible to focus in on the effect of an intervention. That is the Randomized Controlled Trial (RCT).
I encourage you to go back and read my comment from March 11 at 11:20. I discussed the Brazil study there as well as the ivermectin/remdesivir study abstract that Campbell referred to.
I don’t hide behind barriers and formalities, but I do respect standards. They are necessary for scientists to know they are talking about the same thing and compare their work.
I have no responsibilities for approving, promoting, or delaying research except perhaps for a modest contribution to Medicin sans Frontieres. But I did follow the testing of EIDD-2801 (molnupiravir). And I was greatly heartened when, unlike ivermectin, it proved to be effective at protecting people from hospitalization and death from Covid-19. I was even happier when Paxlovid proved to be even more effective. So with effective treatments like those available, the burden of proof is on advocates of ivermectin to meet the same standard of evidence. Perhaps the ACTIV-6 trial will give them ‘numerical substantiation’ in the form of that evidence. The I-TECH trial did not.
The reference to ivermectin bottles was an indirect and hearsay reference to several comments made by working medical professionals here at RI as well as SBM. I suggest you read some of the histories at the Herman Cain Awards. They are full of people who used ivermectin and still died. But those again are anecdotal and not an RCT.
Until we get results from such a trial, we do NOT know that ivermectin is a “very good medicin”, at least for Covid-19.
https://youtu.be/73HIb86EQ5s
I also recommend Dr Susan Oliver’s several videos about ivermectin.
Anyway, I think that’s enough for tonight.
TTFN
I don’t know what the hell you are talking about, anymore. Ivermectin has ZERO efficacy in COVID. End of story. I’ve watched as it has been used in all demographics at all stages of disease over and over again. It doesn’t do SQUAT. Again, if it did, I’d hand it out like candy.
You are a clueless, tiresome, incurious ignoramus. You have it in your mind that this is some repressed miracle cure and won’t hear any evidence to the contrary. For the last time and I’m fine with your sorry keister: I treat COVID. Have since day one across clinical settings. I’m telling you what does and does not work.
You have been asked your credentials. Near as I can tell from your blathering, you have NO clinical training or experience.
@squirrelelite
Here are the links again:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356756711_Latest_statistics_on_England_mortality_data_suggest_systematic_mis-categorisation_of_vaccine_status_and_uncertain_effectiveness_of_Covid-19_vaccination.
https://odysee.com/@CoroNews:9/Im-Stich-gelassen—die-Covid-Impfopfer—ServusTV:3c
Have a look from 18.16 min. onwards and from 43.05 min. onwards. Even though it is in German, you will understand the graphs.
“Researchers around the world have figured out a methodology for eliminating as many confounders as possible to focus in on the effect of an intervention. That is the Randomized Controlled Trial (RCT).”
I guess you’ll have read the article meanwhile (Cureus | Ivermectin Prophylaxis Used for COVID-19: A Citywide, Prospective, Observational Study of 223,128 Subjects Using Propensity Score Matching)
Please explain in detail on what ground the results of this study seem not be reliable to you? Or: what makes it less reliable? What are your doubts, what exactly is your criticism.
“I suggest you read some of the histories at the Herman Cain Awards. They are full of people who used ivermectin and still died. But those again are anecdotal and not an RCT.”
Please provide me the data, then we can talk. What I’ve scanned during the minute at the Wiki, I’d say it’s just utter nonsence. Please provide proof why it is not.
“Until we get results from such a trial, we do NOT know that ivermectin is a “very good medicin”, at least for Covid-19.”
Until…, funny.
@Lucas,
Your first link is to an article that is still in preprint, awaiting review. The pdf is available and I read much of it. Perhaps it will improve after peer review, but I don’t think they make a convincing case for anything.
First of all, they are looking at all-cause mortality for vaccinated and unvaccinated groups of various ages. That adds a large number of deaths from various reasons to the primary concern which is how well the vaccines protect against Covid-19. The vaccines may or may not help with those other causes of death, but that is not what they were designed to do or why we administer them. And when the results don’t match their expectations, the authors aren’t quite sure what to make of that.
There was a study done quite a few months ago that showed that people who recovered from Covid-19 were twice as likely to die from non-Covid-19 causes in the year after their infection. So that could quite well be a major confounder.
A much better way of assessing the real world effectiveness of these vaccines is studies like this one.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35249272/
It shows that the Pfizer vaccine offered better protection than the ChAdOx1 vaccine but for both vaccines that protection waned over time. And boosters helped improve protection for both vaccines.
And this study looked at symptomatic cases regardless of hospitalization or other outcomes.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35305296/
So both prior infection and vaccination offer protection against hospitalization and death although not as strong as we would like.
In the Brazil prophylactic study, the people themselves chose whether or not to use ivermectin. So they knew if they were taking it. And even with the risk factor stratification, there may have been some changes in behavior that were connected. That is, people more worried about Covid-19 may have been more likely to take ivermectin as well as engage in other protective activities like limiting their public exposure, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. It was NOT a randomized controlled trial. So even if suggestive, it only offers a suggestion for research in an RCT.
The Herman Cain awards are not data any more than the testimonial comments we see here at RI and over at SBM. But they do suggest that if ivermectin works for Covid-19, it doesn’t work very well. The real data for vaccines are in studies like the ones I linked to.
And for ivermectin, those data are in studies like the ones she discusses. And they have yet to show a significant clinical benefit in a proper RCT.
The odysee video seems to be a dead link. If there is published research that they talk about, please link directly to it.
Oh, the Brazil study that claimed to have “no missing data”, which is just obviously nonsense. Every study has at least some missing data. It’s a study done by people. The question is always “does that missing data impact the ability to do a meaningful analysis”?
No missing data is like a standard error of zero: it means you need to look much closer because something is not right.
@squirrelelite
“I do not know or even claim to know what you are thinking or why you choose to make a particular comment.”
Which only means that you haven’t read too much of what’s been going on here. Whatever.
Simply put my point here is that it’s your freedom that is at stake.
Meanwhile more conspiracists – now and then synonym for critical thinkers and non-deniers – start to see some light, like for example this guy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i5Jdk4Zh9E. I guess meanwhile they’re everywhere on such platforms or writing books on the subject. That’s all fine, however, this united agenda has been there for years. Were they really smart and awake, why not ringing alarm bells for much longer?
So far nothing is really new. I’m positive all of you here will get the picture sooner or later. By then you will accept that as the new normal. This because most of us are step by step forced into the same direction and what is shared is usually accepted. And simply because by then you’ll have no choice anymore.
But, if you think that this might result in just a loss of your freedom – what is clearly the set up by these brainwashed ‘dictators’ in fact claiming earth for themselves – you’re wrong.
I’m no prophet, but I do not expect we will see a period of relaxation anymore. This war going on now is just one example of how one ‘coincidence’ follows the next. A couple of months ago I was rediculed when I said this, but here we are. And look how it distracts from what is going on – read back if you’re interested.
For you perhaps this is silly sounding, but reckon on (more) chaos ahead. On the economic side of things alone there is even simply no way to avoid it. This has been created over the past decades.
Where it rubs is that all this ‘vaxx’ nonsense is just part of one and the same agenda; you are just the clowns misused defending it. Btw, do some research and you’ll see that ‘vaxxing’ the population has been part of the plan way before the pandemic. And that’s not about some child related vaccines.
Sick people planning sick things. However resulting in their own deaths together with many more, will at some point be the unexpected twist. This is just connecting things.
That’s my answer to what was not even a real question.
Delusional, paranoid rambling from an unwell mind. How sad your life must be. I truly feel sorry for you.
I’ve read a fair number of your comments on this thread. I haven’t seen you make a logical, evidence-based argument on any of the subjects you have chosen to discuss.
And I haven’t noticed that you had any success in persuading other commenters either.
You don’t have to adopt my writing style, but I do suggest you try to present a prima facie case for something.
i.e.
If A, then B. (should be a fairly self-evident deduction)
Here is evidence to support A.
Notice my quotes from linked research.
Therefore B.
As for relaxation, I am far more concerned about politicians who are working to grab for themselves the power to overturn the votes of myself and millions of others than I am about needing to show my vaccine card in certain circumstances or whatever you are referring to.
Do you know that you can have compensation of vaccine injury, or one caused by any of countermeasures ? If there is a death, why not go to CICP:
https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data
141 deaths are claimed. This is much less than reported to VAERS. For compensation,one must submit medial records, which can show real cause of death.
Interesting thing is that there are claims against HCQ and ivermectin, too.
“A couple of months ago I was rediculed when I said this”
As you should have been lucas, and as you still are. Your paranoia about nebulous “world wide conspiracies” is getting worse.
@MedicalYeti
“I don’t know what the hell you are talking about, anymore. Ivermectin has ZERO efficacy in COVID. End of story. I’ve watched as it has been used in all demographics at all stages of disease over and over again. It doesn’t do SQUAT. Again, if it did, I’d hand it out like candy.”
That is if you’re allowed to hand out Ivm at all. Are you?
Please show us the research papers on ‘where it has been used in all demographics at all stages of covid over and over again’.
How on earth can there be such amazing differences in opinion among physicians on something as simple as the treatment of a disease? Why is this even related to the political color of a physician? Have you gone all mad?
A year ago already we read about the Oxford study (the University of Oxford’s principle trial, which claims to be “the world’s largest clinical trial of possible COVID-19 treatments for recovery at home and in other non-hospital settings). It claimed: “For COVID-19, ivermectin has shown promising results as a potential treatment in small studies in humans.” So, weren’t we all interested, huh? But still I’ve not seen any results being presented. Weird, isn’t it. If it’s about mRNA vaccines or Molnupiravir or Paxlovid or whatever drug where lots of money can be earned, results are presented in a fraction of the time.
Interesting to watch: “Malaysia: Another Failed Ivermectin Study? Or Designed to Fail?” (https://www.nooows.com/2022/03/21/malaysia-another-failed-ivermectin-study-or-designed-to-fail/)
Damn corruption.
“You are a clueless, tiresome, incurious ignoramus. You have it in your mind that this is some repressed miracle cure and won’t hear any evidence to the contrary. For the last time and I’m fine with your sorry keister: I treat COVID. Have since day one across clinical settings. I’m telling you what does and does not work.”
No, I think you must be clueless with vaccines that obviously hardly give any protection. And this is precisely what I see around me: young and old getting sick, sometimes very sick. And sometimes even die, especially when 80+. Nevertheless vaccinated according to the standards. I’m sure you treat many of such patients, aren’t you? Still so sure about the protocol?
Furthermore, haven’t I made it clear to you several times meanwhile that I’m not here to discuss medical treatments? That does not exclude me to now and then draw some attention to medical research of other physicians. If you can’t handle that because of your apparently biased mindset, I see that as exclusively your problem.
“You have been asked your credentials. Near as I can tell from your blathering, you have NO clinical training or experience.”
No, you arrogant prick. You give the answers, I ask the questions. You’re the physician, not me. Like I told you before, is there something wrong with your memory?. That’s why I’m basically not arguing on medical treatment myself.
Unfortunately I’ve had to do lots of studying on specific subjects in the medical field; this due to all the malpraxis of your collegues here.
What’s your point? Something like ‘I’m the physician and thus the rest who is not, should shut up’? That’s exactly the killer arrogance from physicians I’ve noticed around me.
Unfortunately it is this arrogance that ruined the lifes of two relatives of mine.
Proper citation:
Lim SCL, Hor CP, Tay KH, Mat Jelani A, Tan WH, Ker HB, Chow TS, Zaid M, Cheah WK, Lim HH, Khalid KE, Cheng JT, Mohd Unit H, An N, Nasruddin AB, Low LL, Khoo SWR, Loh JH, Zaidan NZ, Ab Wahab S, Song LH, Koh HM, King TL, Lai NM, Chidambaram SK, Peariasamy KM; I-TECH Study Group. Efficacy of Ivermectin Treatment on Disease Progression Among Adults With Mild to Moderate COVID-19 and Comorbidities: The I-TECH Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Intern Med. 2022 Feb 18. doi: 10.1001/jamainternmed.2022.0189. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 35179551.
Can you tell us hoiw this study is to give neagative results
I could give anyone ivermectin I wanted to. I could write an Rx for it right now that says: “prn to make hair look prettier x 30 days” and some pharmacy would fill it. So could any other individual with a valid license. I would write for it IF IT ACTUALLY WORKED. Come off it, already, you are starting to look really desperate.
Speaking of who is pushing ivermectin…
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealIvermectin/status/1506058260926939143
Lucas- you can hardly deny that you do much more than just ask questions ( say of MedicaYeti). You also appear to be writing opinion on many matters medical in contradiction to a vast evolving scientific literature, much of it independently produced by Institutions and individual teams world wide. It would seem impossible for them all to conspire or be simultaneously ‘brainwashed’ into believing ‘things’ that you claim are false. If you need a couple of slices to make up the loaf just let me know your preference and I’ll try to provide for the deficiency.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas- you can hardly deny that you do much more than just ask questions ( say of MedicaYeti). You also appear to be writing opinion on many matters medical in contradiction to a vast evolving scientific literature, much of it independently produced by Institutions and individual teams world wide. It would seem impossible for them all to conspire or be simultaneously ‘brainwashed’ into believing ‘things’ that you claim are false. If you need a couple of slices to make up the loaf just let me know your preference and I’ll try to provide for the deficiency.”
Leonard, please don’t be fooled. It’s some characters here that try and pull me in a certain direction. It’s just tacticks.
Why would I be so silly to defend treatments of any third party that I have no financial interest in, in the first place? I’m not affiliated with whatever party. Suppose if that was the case, would then writing about the ‘moral’ of a population, what to expect in the coming years or any such subjects, do any good to my status? Of course it would have the opposite effect, like it has indeed.
I don’t need the euros too, have them already and don’t even care much about them. I certainly don’t need or want power or influence; that’s the same as corruption. I live by another concept or at least I try.
Many words to make clear that the insinuations here simply make no sense.
I am not defending any medical treatment; where have you seen me doing that?
I don’t care about anyone’s medical decisions, as this is not my responsibility. I just hate the silly hide and seek here; of course the boys and girls at this forum have an agenda. They just don’t communicate what that is. Be sure they are the liars for their own sake. Of course there is a question of affiliation and interests here, Leonard. Why wouldn’t there be?
But this plain denial of whatever it is that’s in the way of the rediculous vaccinations they defend that you should take every couple of months without guarantee, irritates me. I simply hate liars and I hate corrupcy.
Our medical expert here bluntly even tells us that these vaccines are completely safe and don’t kill anyone. A pathetic liar, that’s what he must be.
Why hasn’t he accepted my invitation to go and have a talk with the victim’s relatives that I did meet here and there around me? Who told me what does happen in the real world. ‘Funkstille’ is all I heard.
A while ago I mentioned “the cultural and socio economic changes in society that are so blatantly visible”. Leonard, I guess it’s hard for you to be sure about who is really telling the truth here. Did you experience the same phenomenon when you were young?
Fact is you basically cannot even trust any organisation these days. That’s what our world has become. The fact that we got used to it, is irrelevant. Many go even so far to consider this as normal. Or as a challenge to get away with lies, like most of our politicians here as a poignant example.
They’re not completely safe dipshit. I never said they were. None of us have. THEY ARE NOT KILLING PEOPLE.
I told you why I don’t want to partake in your character assassination by liar’s committee. Go back and read.
ldw56old
“Your paranoia about nebulous “world wide conspiracies” is getting worse.”
Did I mention “worldwide”?
Fyi, these plans are partly linked to climate catastrophe, something we can simply not deny.
Indeed we cannot continue the way we live and further ruin our planet in the same selfish manner that we do. Something simply has to change in our behaviour, whether we like it or not. But it is this feudalism as a result, that is the disturbing part.
The way those plans are ment to be realised is through creating chaos. Ask yourself, can you think of another way? How would you force a population in a restriction in the many freedoms they have now?
These planners don’t seem to care about human life too; in fact what they realize (and sometimes openly say so) is that we are with too many at this globe. Are they wrong in your opinion? Suppose you agree – and the money and power would be yours – what would you plan to ensure that you have an earth for yourself and your children without pollution, overpopulation or so many other threats we face? Let me know.
It is not all that paranoid you think it is.
Except for the part that these plans will not succeed (at least not fully) because of an unexpected event that will then so-called be solved as the moment the real trouble for everyone begins, it even makes quite some sense. Doesn’t it?
I initially thought you (Lucas) were just another idiot devoted to lying. You still are lying about covid, the dangers of the vaccine, that you “studied” the issues, and the more likely imaginary than real people you claim who were killed and badly harmed by the vaccine: there’s no evidence for any of that anywhere.
Your conspiracy crap though: completely bogus, yes, but probably more a sign of a damaged mind than just dishonesty.
ldw56old
“I initially thought you (Lucas) were just another idiot devoted to lying. You still are lying about covid, the dangers of the vaccine, that you “studied” the issues, and the more likely imaginary than real people you claim who were killed and badly harmed by the vaccine: there’s no evidence for any of that anywhere.
Your conspiracy crap though: completely bogus, yes, but probably more a sign of a damaged mind than just dishonesty.”
You should never conclude first and then think.
You have probably heard of the Club of Rome, a think tank for the UN. Look how these people think:
“Humanity faces threats of systemic collapse on many fronts. Decades of exponential growth in both population and consumption are now colliding with the limits of the Earth’s biosphere destabilising the very foundations of intelligent life as we know it today.
We are at a unique moment in history – a decisive decade where failure to act risks crossing irreversible Earth tipping points. The world’s response to the global pandemic provides us with a transformational moment to bring about the change we need. That same pandemic has highlighted how interdependent we are.
The Club of Rome pushes for the transformational shifts needed for society to emerge from emergency with a new way of being human that promotes wellbeing for all. It is our aim to accelerate a better future for all; emerge from emergency; move towards more equitable economic, finance, socio-political models; and ensure an inclusive human dimension to all systems change and transitioning.”
It’s the same language at the UN or WEF, political left wing parties or big businesses. So the power and money are behind the plans, which means that what is planned, can indeed be realised. These people are serious. How do these organisations intend to realise their agenda?
The problem is that you don’t read nor ask yourself questions.
“You have probably heard of the Club of Rome”
JFC, are you going to mention the Rothschild family next? They’re also a favorite of low-brow and low-IQ conspiracy mongers.
Your continued posts are pushing the probability that the best description of you is “dumber than a rock” to 1.
@MedicalYeti
“They’re not completely safe dipshit. I never said they were. None of us have. THEY ARE NOT KILLING PEOPLE.”
Interesting. So when you end up with a pulmonary embolism or a stroke as a result of vaccination, there is no way you can die.
Bad move, fruitcake.
“Interesting. So when you end up with a pulmonary embolism or a stroke as a result of vaccination”
No a-hole, that isn’t what he says either. In the vanishingly rare chance that either of those was CAUSED by a vaccination, if such a thing is possible, the person could die.
Your problem (and whether you’re too stupid to understand this or whether you do but choose to lie I can’t say with certainty, but I have my suspicions) is that the mere fact that one of those events might follow a vaccination does not not automatically mean it was caused by the vaccination. Your “question” and its implication are both more of your mindless bullshit.
@ldw56old
“No a-hole, that isn’t what he says either. In the vanishingly rare chance that either of those was CAUSED by a vaccination, if such a thing is possible, the person could die.
Your problem (and whether you’re too stupid to understand this or whether you do but choose to lie I can’t say with certainty, but I have my suspicions) is that the mere fact that one of those events might follow a vaccination does not not automatically mean it was caused by the vaccination. Your “question” and its implication are both more of your mindless bullshit.”
Can MY not speak for himself?
A-hole, b-hole, c-hole… just follow the alphabet and with S-hole consider if that’s you with your typical leftist hatespeech. Really, have you gone insane?
So you crank, unlike MY you do admit that the vaccine can kill you. Fine, that was my point too.
And a killer it is! I’ve heard of too many cases myself to wake up and like I said, statistics don’t lie. After each vaxx round there is this undeniable death toll. Deny and curse as much as you like, but that’s the reality.
Why don’t you consider defending a good cause instead of that dirty work that you’re doing here? Does it really offer you that much that it’s worth all these lies?
“So you crank, unlike MY you do admit that the vaccine can kill you. ”
Don’t lie about what I said you low life: here’s what I said:
“In the vanishingly rare chance that either of those was CAUSED by a vaccination, if such a thing is possible, the person could die.”
“If such a thing is possible” — that means i don’t know if it could occur. You can be dishonest with what you say: you don’t get to lie about what others say.
“And a killer it is! I’ve heard of too many cases myself to wake up and like I said, statistics don’t lie. After each vaxx round there is this undeniable death toll. Deny and curse as much as you like, but that’s the reality.”
Again, no, you keep saying that, that isn’t true. It’s becoming ever more clear that you don’t really know anyone who has died after vaccination: you’re just making these claims up in some perverted attempt to seem important to other conspiracy mongers. As has been said earlier, that’s vile.
@ldw56old
“Again, no, you keep saying that, that isn’t true. It’s becoming ever more clear that you don’t really know anyone who has died after vaccination: you’re just making these claims up in some perverted attempt to seem important to other conspiracy mongers. As has been said earlier, that’s vile.”
Read back please. I’ve never written that I know anyone personally who has died after vaccination. If that was the case I would have written so for sure.
Like I described, these deaths I heard of, were from acquintances and people I met by coincidence; in a shop or from a therapeutic. However, I have not any reason to doubt what these people told me is true. And it’s just too many cases too simply ignore, wave away or simply deny, like you do.
The one with the pulmonary embolism (both lungs) is a good acquintance of mine, just like some other cases of severe problems right after vaccination.
And these statistics I’ve written about are as clear as plain day-light.
I guess I told you before too that in a large retirement home the exact same tragedy was visible after the several vaccination rounds. A relative of mine, who resides there and reads his paper at night (while he sits there alone at the ground floor) made me aware that the bodies were carried away daily. Both the woman behind the desk I asked the next day admitted that this was indeed the case. An ambulance employee in front of the building admitted the correlation of vaccine and death. It’s just another clue for me that these vaccines do kill. Especially the elderly, just like these statisticians visualised.
Why do I endelessly have to repeat the same facts for you?
“The one with the pulmonary embolism (both lungs) is a good acquintance of mine, just like some other cases of severe problems right after vaccination.”
Even if we were to believe you, only an idiot says “B happened after A so clearly A caused B.”
“And these statistics I’ve written about are as clear as plain day-light.”
Well no, they aren’t.
“Why do I endelessly have to repeat the same facts for you?”
You haven’t provided any facts — only unsupported, highly suspect, most likely false, claims. .
Fyi: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.02.482639v1
@ldw56old
“The one with the pulmonary embolism (both lungs) is a good acquintance of mine, just like some other cases of severe problems right after vaccination.
Even if we were to believe you, only an idiot says “B happened after A so clearly A caused B.”
Let me illustrate it for you. Suppose you have a subwoofer with plateamp, like from these home cinema systems. You have this party going on and ignorant as you are when it comes to electronics, you fully open the volume pot of the amp to impress your friends with some ‘oomph’. Soon after the amp gets hot and then dies: you’ve blown the transistors and a part of the circuit.
Now you ask yourself what could have caused the equipment to stop working? Of course you’re not the “idiot that says B happened after A so clearly A caused B”. Oh no, this was pure coincidence.
But luckily you’ve got me to teach you what happened and for what reason. And yes, B did happen after A and A caused B. Go buy another sub and don’t do that again..
Here the story doesn’t end, however. You’ve got lots of friends using the same equipment; some of them have parties too and are as foolish as you are. Nine of your friends experienced the exact same problem of B happening after A. Now it’s beyond doubt that A caused B.
The fact that some of such amps kept playing – however with an unwanted noise as a result – while many more survived without any problem – at least as it seems for the moment – may lead you to the conclusion that the volume control had nothing to do with your malfunction.
Well, you’re wrong. This is the way it works with electronics.
With the human body it ain’t so much different.
““And these statistics I’ve written about are as clear as plain day-light.”
Well no, they aren’t. Why do I endelessly have to repeat the same facts for you?””
You silly boy. These statistics DO NOT LIE. Period. People die after each vaccination round. Like your clowns hide away whatever, whenever they can, here they cannot: excess mortality on the one hand and rounds of vaccination on the other; large scale. Statistics show you whether or not the two are correlated. Simple and clear: they are. Danger, danger, danger.
Finally even these ‘pro-vaxxers’, like your Dr. Campbell start waking up. Just in, have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqTGD9LHe9g, from 17.35 min. Here you see someone asking a simple question.
You give me facts, you said with your big mouth. Put your words into action. For the first time. Answer the lady’s question with an educated guess.
“With the human body it ain’t so much different.”
And there again is a reason you are an idiot. Good lord you’re being stupid.
“These statistics DO NOT LIE. Period. People die after each vaccination round. ”
Not from the vaccines, and not in the numbers you say. Once again, the stupid thing you are hung on (which puts the lie to your claim of being able to analyze data and all the other things you state you are, as those require a logical mind, which you clearly do not have) is repeatedly saying “B follows A so clearly B was caused by A”.
You are really warped mentally.
Lucas-there may be some commenters here ( I among them) who will consider that your analogy of causality in a hi-fi system cannot equate to that in a living organism such as a human. The variables in the living may be a little more difficult to parse. I hope this doesn’t make me stupid for having such a revolutionary thought! Also if the conspiracies to conceal deaths from Covid vaccination is not comprehensively, totally world -wide, why are these deaths not apparent in the data of non-conspiring countries or Institutions or independent teams?
@ldw56old
“With the human body it ain’t so much different.
And there again is a reason you are an idiot. Good lord you’re being stupid.”
You still don’t get it, do you? Once a fool always one.
“These statistics DO NOT LIE. Period. People die after each vaccination round.
Not from the vaccines, and not in the numbers you say. Once again, the stupid thing you are hung on (which puts the lie to your claim of being able to analyze data and all the other things you state you are, as those require a logical mind, which you clearly do not have) is repeatedly saying “B follows A so clearly B was caused by A”.
Again, these are NOT my numbers. When will you ever listen?
And YES, they die in the numbers as shown and it’s huge numbers. It’s the German professor who studied the phenomenon for many other countries as well; in the context his conclusion is that lifes get lost about as much as are saved. And that’s aside from the side effects, of which these statistics say nothing.
Do ask someone to translate for you. It’s clear you’re not capable to understand a word of the language. Unfortunately even the ‘language of statistics’ he shows, is beyond you.
And where is your educated guess we’re all waiting for? You’re clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. But give it a try, I would say, as your silence speaks.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas-there may be some commenters here ( I among them) who will consider that your analogy of causality in a hi-fi system cannot equate to that in a living organism such as a human. The variables in the living may be a little more difficult to parse. I hope this doesn’t make me stupid for having such a revolutionary thought! Also if the conspiracies to conceal deaths from Covid vaccination is not comprehensively, totally world -wide, why are these deaths not apparent in the data of non-conspiring countries or Institutions or independent teams?”
The purpose of an illustration is to simplify something complicated with an example. An illustration is successful if as a result the reader gets the picture of the complication. It is unsuccessful if the illustration needs additional explanation or if it just makes no sense.
I think the the story about the electronics departing earth illustrates perfectly what may be going on in the human body after vaccination. Just like some of seemingly similar equipment may ‘die’ when mistreated and other pieces don’t, so may human the body react after vaccination. Some die, most don’t (at least not yet) and some just get damaged but still function. You can be sure about whether or not the equipment is damaged for a particular reason when you observe the same problem frequently enough. What part of the comparison would you say does not apply and why not?
I would say the comparison goes even further, because as electronics ages, the chance of ‘death’ due to overload becomes higher. Just like is the case with the human body.
And yes, vaccine deaths are concealed with a simple trick: just calculate deaths whithin 14 days after vaccination in the unvaccinated; precisely the period when by far most side effects will occur. That way it appears that the vaccines are so much more safe then they are in reality. Typical dirty business this is. Who cares about a live at such criminal institutes like Pfizer has shown to be? Just look at their track record alone.
I knew from what I experienced around me that these vaccines definately could not be safe. Even though databases showed they are. Well, this is the obvious trick used.
Perhaps these vaccines have future side effects you and I don’t know about. The whole context certainly does not comfort me. But I don’t know about that yet, time and statistics will tell.
Anyway, please don’t get fooled. Or otherwise please explain to me how I’m beside the truth.
Lucas- there is hardly anything new I can now say that hasn’t been explained many times over in different ways by our host Orac and some often very patient independent commenters.
Your hi-fi analogy of causality is simply an illustration of how we may think about many common problems in everyday life. The nature of the problem determines the level of sophistication needed for a solution. That sophistication can be provided by scientific explorations. I like Sir Peter Medawar’s concept, when explaining the scientific process in ‘Advice to a Young Scientist’, Pub. Harper and Row,1979, p93) as ‘potentiated common sense’. The potentiation takes many years of dedicated learning, training and practise to acquire. The practical results of this are found in the care of patients, communal and individually, in journals , textbooks and much more. The people with this potentiation are called EXPERTS. And they do keep an eye on each other for possible errors in their endeavours.
Your hi-fi analogy lacks this potentiation. Any perusal of medical texts for example, apart from common experience ,will explain the many possible contributory causes in the process of death. With the infinite complexity of the human organism what may appear to be ’cause of death’ in your experience can be shown to be incorrect. It often requires many different skills and knowledge to ascertain. Your reasoning and experience clearly demonstrates a marked deficiency of those necessary skills.
You miss my point about those independent countries, Institutions and dedicated medical teams who are NOT within your imagined ‘conspiracy’ in concealing, by whatever means, deaths due to vaccination. Not only do they not show deaths due to vaccination in their accumulated data but between them they would certainly be able to detect errors in analysis or skullduggery in the ‘conspiring’ organisations’ concealment of ’cause of death’. The truth would become apparent. These deaths you perceive are errors in your skills and reasoning: that deficiency of potentiation of common sense.
In the short term the vaccines have been and are hugely successful, saving lives and much suffering. They are continually monitored. If in the unlikely event some long term adverse effects were detected the normal risk/benefit analysis will be applied.
I have tried here to provide for reconstitution of part of those two slices of the loaf of which you are obviously deficient. No thanks at all are necessary.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas- there is hardly anything new I can now say that hasn’t been explained many times over in different ways by our host Orac and some often very patient independent commenters.”
Orac is clearly biased, just filling datacenters.
Why do you speak of independent commenters, who are they and how do you know they are?
“Your hi-fi analogy lacks this potentiation. Any perusal of medical texts for example, apart from common experience ,will explain the many possible contributory causes in the process of death. With the infinite complexity of the human organism what may appear to be ’cause of death’ in your experience can be shown to be incorrect. It often requires many different skills and knowledge to ascertain. Your reasoning and experience clearly demonstrates a marked deficiency of those necessary skills.”
Clearly you lack understanding of what an illustration is about. Or you pretend to.
And fyi, every science is infinitely complex. Electronics is no exception. We always think we comprehend, but we don’t. We simply still don’t exactly know what is going on at the deeper level. We can play a little with what we (think we) know and even develop a good product. For a really well designed class D amplifier we need mathematicians, but still they learn to be able to improve the product.
But like I said this is not the point of an illustration. Shame you don’t seem to grasp that.
Don’t think that physicians know what’s all going on in the human body, they do not. That is why there is a lot of trial and error when f.e. it is about developing medicins.
You beforehand try to exclude every cause effect relationship. Let me help you with that practice of yours; if you take a new drug and whithin some hours or days you develop a rash, how does your physician react? He will stop prescribing you that drug. Tell me why would he do that based on that logic of yours?
Please Leonard, fool someone else; when we observe a reaction once or twice after giving a drug, we note that as a possible side effect of that drug. If we observe the same reaction so much more often we list it as a side effect. Again it is statistics that shows a possible correlation.
“You miss my point about those independent countries, Institutions and dedicated medical teams who are NOT within your imagined ‘conspiracy’ in concealing, by whatever means, deaths due to vaccination. Not only do they not show deaths due to vaccination in their accumulated data but between them they would certainly be able to detect errors in analysis or skullduggery in the ‘conspiring’ organisations’ concealment of ’cause of death’. The truth would become apparent. These deaths you perceive are errors in your skills and reasoning: that deficiency of potentiation of common sense.”
For an outsider it can be hard to find out whether countries, institutions and medical teams are truly independent. In principle hardly any institute or any person is independent. Well, I am as an exception.
Furthermore it is clear that you still don’t understand said report. Or you haven’t read it at all.
You make a serious mistake by saying that “they do not show deaths due to vaccination in their accumulated data”. Yes Leonard, it is in the official data. Excess mortality in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated per age group is in the official data. So we have accurate data on who died and when. Processing these data clearly shows what’s going on. I repeat myself: after vaccinating a particular group it is in the unvaccinated that out of nowhere we see a peak in deaths after a week and then disappear as fast as it came. Problem is that these deaths are registered in the groups that didn’t get the medical treatment; before I gave a link that shows that this is indeed done during the 14 days after vaccination. After each and every vacciantion round the exact same phenomenon is visible. The official defence of this stinking procedure is that these vaccines are not effective during 14 days after they are given.
Please have the respect not to try and BS me. It is a bit irritating when a guy like you, not knowing what the hell he is talking about, tries to teach me on statistics, cause that is what this is basically about. And if you try, please keep it substantial and tell me exactly where these statisticians made mistakes. I’m seriously interested in arguments. And despite you may not believe so, I really want to believe that these vaccines are safe, actually much more then you might think.
Just PROOF IT to me. Is that too much to ask?
“In the short term the vaccines have been and are hugely successful, saving lives and much suffering. They are continually monitored. If in the unlikely event some long term adverse effects were detected the normal risk/benefit analysis will be applied.”
Leonard, how would you know all this? Who told you?
“I have tried here to provide for reconstitution of part of those two slices of the loaf of which you are obviously deficient. No thanks at all are necessary.”
Leonard, you gradually show a different face to me. Tell me what is your real age and what is your benefit defending these vaccines here?
Lucas- thank you for your considered , even if somewhat wayward, response. It is a little embarrassing going over ground more ably covered by others on this blog in answer to everything you have written. Nevertheless dealing with your points as you have made them it is clear Orac and most of the commenters ARE BIASED but not in the direction you suppose. Their bias is towards critical thinking and evidence, scientific as well as of other types.
With regards my belief that the commenters on this blog are independent ( of each other and vested interests) it is a judgement made from reading much of what and how they have written.
Your hi-fi illustration is what I mean by the common sense solving of problems. All that will be needed is the user manual and the technical repair manual and allied equipment, all the result of science and technology in the modern era. Human endeavours. Living organisms, in particular viruses and humans have a history of evolutionary interactivity and development’ an understanding and medical interventions of which fills libraries with texts and journals which is indicative of the necessary learning ( that potentiation) to overcome the medical problems caused by viruses and human interactions. Your hi-fi illustration pales besides the science of solving real medical problems.
I do agree that trial and error is central to most of scientific progress. Years ago I was won over to this view on reading ‘Conjectures and Refutations’ by Karl Popper. You are also correct in thinking that physicians and others do not know ALL that is ‘going on in the human body’. Do you know of anyone who would make such a ridiculous claim? But it is fair to say we’ve come a long way in a very short time in learning a great deal- enough to successfully intervene in much human illness and suffering.
Your ‘medicine, rash, drug withdrawal’ example is fine as an initial response. The trouble is there are many symptoms or outcomes ( both positive and negative) ascribed to an intervention that eventually, after much study involving many disciplines , including statistical analysis, prove to be non existent.
It is most unlikely that countries who are politically antagonistic will conspire together to conceal deaths from vaccinations. Also competing teams with different types of vaccine development will keep a critical eye on results from the competition. Nothing will remain hidden for too long, if it occurs at all. That’s the beauty of critical analysis and thinking.
I have no interest in your report, having read that there are numerous others that show contrary results. Cherry pick all you want but I know who I will trust- it’s called the CONSENSUS opinion based on ALL the evidence available. You insinuated previously that you know of no wide world conspiracy to conceal deaths from Covid vaccinations so I repeat – where is the data from those NOT conspiring indicating in their data the deaths due to the various vaccinations?
I make no effort whatsoever to teach you or anybody anything about statistics but if it comes down to who will I trust to interpret statistical data, once again it will be the consensus opinion among the experts who will guide me – certainly not a maverick such as you. Other commenters on this blog have done exactly as you demand from me in answering comprehensively your statistical interpretations. And apart from these commenters there is a wide spectrum of information from many sources indicating the safety of the vaccines. If you can never put any trust in EXPERTS then you are a lost cause. Not blind unthinking trust but simply a recognition that others may know more than you on any particular subject.
It is amusing that you do not believe my age. I have no intention of forwarding my birth certificate but if you wish to wager that I am not truthful about it I will reverse that decision and take your money. We will agree on an independent stakeholder. There is no benefit at all to me in defending vaccines. I have read enough about the history of their development and some immunology to know that vaccines and vaccination is a well developed medical science that has and is producing many benefits to mankind.
It seems I may have seriously overestimated your thinking skills in supposing you are only two slices short of the full loaf. A recount is necessary!
@Leonard Sugarman
“With regards my belief that the commenters on this blog are independent ( of each other and vested interests) it is a judgement made from reading much of what and how they have written.”
Next time you might consider mentioning that this was just your judgement instead of bringing it as a fact.
“Your hi-fi illustration pales besides the science of solving real medical problems.”
Again, do you understand what an illustration is for?
“But it is fair to say we’ve come a long way in a very short time in learning a great deal- enough to successfully intervene in much human illness and suffering.”
That statement is too bold. Now our physicians lack the time and interest in their patients to successfully intervene in much human illness and suffering. As a result many die prematurely. Research is often done – if at all – when it is too late; a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. I would be careful if I were you, Leonard; with 80 years old you are simply a written off patient. What it means is that if medical complaints get complicated it’s you yourself who should find out what is going on in your body. Your physician in general won’t do much for you.
“Your ‘medicine, rash, drug withdrawal’ example is fine as an initial response. The trouble is there are many symptoms or outcomes ( both positive and negative) ascribed to an intervention that eventually, after much study involving many disciplines , including statistical analysis, prove to be non existent.”
How would you know as an 80 year old without any medical background?
Why would you speak of non existent in the context I described? Makes no sense.
“It is most unlikely that countries who are politically antagonistic will conspire together to conceal deaths from vaccinations.”
Now you claim to have inside in politics. Based on what?
What you think is antagonistic may ultimately not be so antagonistic. Don’t get fooled. And certainly don’t make statements about matters you lack insight.
Furthermore, the countries mentioned are not politically antagonistic at all. Again: do your research. At least open these links I gave you. It’s clear you haven’t heard what the professor has to say. No mention of such antagonistic countries. Instead the countries mentioned are united under a similar ‘health’ umbrella.
I don’t know what is going on in North Korea, China, Russia as I haven’t seen specific info from these countries, have you? And such countries have their own vaccines too. And probably their own fake info, if any at all that they share.
“Also competing teams with different types of vaccine development will keep a critical eye on results from the competition. Nothing will remain hidden for too long, if it occurs at all. That’s the beauty of critical analysis and thinking.”
Or is it the ‘beauty’ of criminal organisations that are more interested in your money then in your health? Have you heard of Pfizer as an example?
“I have no interest in your report, having read that there are numerous others that show contrary results.”
Do close your eyes. I expected a response like that. So you have no damn clue about the statistical outcome, do you? Why would you voluntary move in the dark?
“Cherry pick all you want but I know who I will trust- it’s called the CONSENSUS opinion based on ALL the evidence available.”
Good luck with your evidence based on a wrong starting point. Keep looking the other way till the bitter end.
“You insinuated previously that you know of no wide world conspiracy to conceal deaths from Covid vaccinations so I repeat – where is the data from those NOT conspiring indicating in their data the deaths due to the various vaccinations?”
Again: the data IS FROM NOT CONSPIRING ORIGIN. It is the data from our governments; all of it. How often have I told you meanwhile?
“I make no effort whatsoever to teach you or anybody anything about statistics but if it comes down to who will I trust to interpret statistical data, once again it will be the consensus opinion among the experts who will guide me – certainly not a maverick such as you.”
Again: it is not my statistics. The only thing I concluded based on the amount of vaccine casualties around me, is that the official data on vaccine related deaths based on calculation of chance CAN NOT BE CORRECT. Then it appeared that the data from our governments actually prove my point.
Do you deny the procedure of the classicication of deaths during 14 days after vaccination in the unvaccinated, or do you not deny? Have you done any research to find out what’s going on with this classification?
“Other commenters on this blog have done exactly as you demand from me in answering comprehensively your statistical interpretations.”
Again: it is not my statistical interpretation. When I have some time left I will answer Squirrelelite. She ( I guess it is a she) was the only one trying to give substantive comments. Not that she has made any valid point whatsoever as far as I could tell, at least she tried. But not you, not Medical Yeti or whoever else. So why do you speak of “other commenters” (plural)?
“And apart from these commenters there is a wide spectrum of information from many sources indicating the safety of the vaccines.”
Only statisticians can provide that information. Please provide me with your trustworthy sources. If these sources process data based on a false classification, the outcome will be false. Are we on the same wavelength?
Like I said, a simple trick is used, so that the primary data that serve as input for your ‘sources’ are wrong. Correct that and have a go with the statistics. Then all of a sudden these vaccines appear to be not so safe.
“If you can never put any trust in EXPERTS then you are a lost cause. Not blind unthinking trust but simply a recognition that others may know more than you on any particular subject.”
Others will always know more but that is not the point. Why would you trust an obvious deception?
And please stop your crap about these experts. Yes, they are experts indeed and that’s why they are able to easily deceive you. That is exactly what happens ecenomy wise btw. You can NEVER trust statistics if you don’t know about the input. It’s not that the calculations itself are wrong, the input is. Anyone who blindly trust such outcome from a government or a company with certain interests, is just another ignorant fool. Period.
“It is amusing that you do not believe my age. I have no intention of forwarding my birth certificate but if you wish to wager that I am not truthful about it I will reverse that decision and take your money. We will agree on an independent stakeholder. There is no benefit at all to me in defending vaccines.”
Things don’t add up with you. Anyway, I don’t care.
“I have read enough about the history of their development and some immunology to know that vaccines and vaccination is a well developed medical science that has and is producing many benefits to mankind.”
Again your general sauce of flaw. Indeed, you are right about vaccines and vaccination in general. That is why this mRNA content is called vaccines. But in the traditional meaning of the word, how can you call it as such?
And how can you speak of a well developed vaccine when the time necessary to get to that point is not taken in the first place? (However, be sure these mRNA vaccines were there way before the pandemic and that’s the scary part).
“It seems I may have seriously overestimated your thinking skills in supposing you are only two slices short of the full loaf. A recount is necessary!”
The content please, not the person. When 80 why behave like a 15 year old?
“The only thing I concluded based on the amount of vaccine casualties around me”
Which are a combination of pure fiction by you and lies by others. The vaccine is not killing people anywhere but in the minds of the low IQ conspiratorial clowns like you.
Also — there was yet another study, this time in the NEJM, showing that your hobby horse, ivermectin, is worthless. We already knew that (those of us who really understand the statistics anyway, I know that club doesn’t include you) but it needs to be mentioned that the “uncertainty” you keep pushing is pure builshit — just like your end of the word conspiracy and moral decline line.
Lucas- I am astonished at your tenacity and ability to keep writing such rubbish. I have had a suspicion that we were not singing from the same hymn sheet and now feel fully confirmed in that suspicion. We will now have to agree to differ, you with your view that there are numerous deaths from Covid -19 vaccinations being concealed by a cabal of conspirators at the highest levels and that Ivermectin is a safe and useful treatment of Covid infections and me believing quite the opposite. I wish you every success in any attempt you make to replace the deficient slices of your loaf.
@Leonard Sugarman
“We will now have to agree to differ,”
Believe what you want, I prefer to let plain evidence speak.
“you with your view that there are numerous deaths from Covid -19 vaccinations being concealed by a cabal of conspirators at the highest levels”
Where did I speak of “a cabal of conspirators at the highest levels” when it is about vaccine related deaths?
Like I said: an obvious and simple delusional trick to hide the truth has been used. And you fell for it. For your own reasons you don’t share; your game.
“and that Ivermectin is a safe and useful treatment of Covid infections and me believing quite the opposite.”
I do not defend or discuss whatever third party medicin. I’ve told you so often that the repetition makes me tired. However I feel free to share third party evidence about Ivermectin or whatever I want here; that this is cursing in the church for the silly bastards here, I do not care a bit.
“I wish you every success in any attempt you make to replace the deficient slices of your loaf.”
Thanks, wishing me luck is always fine. Wishing you luck as well. And most of all: wisdom and objectivity.
@ldw56old
“”The only thing I concluded based on the amount of vaccine casualties around me”.
Which are a combination of pure fiction by you and lies by others. The vaccine is not killing people anywhere but in the minds of the low IQ conspiratorial clowns like you.”
Haha, no. I don’t see the reason why ordinary people I happen to meet or that I know personally, would lie to me about vaccine related deaths in their family. All is possible of course, but it is just unlikely.
And these statistics based on data from our governments are of course not my fiction; it’s even no fiction at all. So apparently yes, these vaccines kill people. Many people.
I would say why don’t you write an email to these statisticians. First you curse and denigrate like you usually do when you hear something you don’t want to. Then you come up with some substantive comments. Take Squirelelite’s post for that as you have not been able to come up with anything yourself. Post their reply back to you here.
Shall we bet you don’t? Missed chance then.
“Also — there was yet another study, this time in the NEJM, showing that your hobby horse, ivermectin, is worthless.”
Confront the physicians defending the drug with it and report back. Then it gets interesting. Shall we bet you don’t? Missed chance then.
“We already knew that (those of us who really understand the statistics anyway, I know that club doesn’t include you) but it needs to be mentioned that the “uncertainty” you keep pushing is pure builshit”.
Isn’t it about time then that those “who really understand statistics” show these statisticians the mistakes they made. And me, as I’m very interested to hear. And in all honesty, I would be glad to find out that we are wrong. Really!
And please inform the German professor, who exposed the same evil in so many other countries, as well. It will be a great help if you did, but somehow I’m sure you won’t act. Missed chance then.
“just like your end of the word conspiracy and moral decline line”
No, there will be no end of the world in the context of some third world war that some expect will come. Instead be afraid of your own behaviour; focus on that part.
You will notice that the pressure on people will be raised more and more. Like you have experienced so far.
It will get seriously wrong at the moment our leaders come up with a so called ‘solution’. It will be a lie, don’t fall for it.
Immediatly after you will experience that long existing institutes will be attacked and disappear. That will be the start of chaos and misery. Most will not survive the end of that period.
I told you how to prepare; it is not a matter of stacking food or build a shelter. Who you are is the clue to survival and you will know by then this is true.
@All
Peer reviewed: “New-onset autoimmune phenomena post-COVID-19 vaccination”.
CONCLUSION
In the light of the information discussed above, emerging evidence has indicated that new onset of autoimmune manifestations including VITT, autoimmune liver diseases, GBS and IgA nephropathy appears to be associated with COVID-19 vaccines (Table 2). The plausible mechanisms by which COVID-19 vaccines lead to autoimmune manifestations include molecular mimicry, the production of particular autoantibodies and the role of certain vaccine adjuvants. Further studies are warranted to elucidate the underlying biological mechanisms and identify the exact causality.
Again bad news, boys and girls. It just keeps piling up.
The report hurries to mention: “we do not aim to disavow the overwhelming benefits of mass vaccination with COVID-19 in controlling COVID-19 pandemic and preventing COVID-19 morbidity and mortality.” Oh yes, do say so. Otherwise quacks like you here label these physicians as anti-vaxxers and that’s not good for their career.
“Overwhelming benefits”…, what benefits when the vaccines kill as many as they save (beside all other side effects besides death)? What “overwhelming benefits” when after some weeks the benefit of the vaccine is completely gone? Rediculous reasoning, isn’t it?
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas- I am astonished at your tenacity and ability to keep writing such rubbish. I have had a suspicion that we were not singing from the same hymn sheet and now feel fully confirmed in that suspicion.”
So no substantial comments here. Just some useless words.
“We will now have to agree to differ, you with your view that there are numerous deaths from Covid -19 vaccinations being concealed by a cabal of conspirators at the highest levels and that Ivermectin is a safe and useful treatment of Covid infections and me believing quite the opposite.”
Like I said I’m not defending third party drugs, why would I?
What you believe is your choice. Stay in your illogic believes if you want, why would I care?
These “numerous deaths” is not a view, merely a proof by statistics. And you lack the argument to refute. That means that it’s just a believe that you have, a religion if you will.
“I wish you every success in any attempt you make to replace the deficient slices of your loaf.”
Wishing me luck is always welcome. Wishing you the same.
“These “numerous deaths” is not a view, merely a proof by statistics. :
No, it is a bald faced lie pushed by you and others. No matter how much you losers push it, it isn’t true. You are truly a low-life.
@ldw56old
““The only thing I concluded based on the amount of vaccine casualties around me”
Which are a combination of pure fiction by you and lies by others. The vaccine is not killing people anywhere but in the minds of the low IQ conspiratorial clowns like you.”
There’s always a theoratical possibility that what these people I happened to meet in my neighboorhood, or that what these acquintances of mine told me, was sucked out of the thumb. But how likely is that? Ask your self the ‘why’ question, there’s no logic explanation.
I invited some of you here to get in contact with a couple of the victim’s relatives, but no one is interested. Apparently you guys got something to hide, knowing that what I said is of course true.
“Also — there was yet another study, this time in the NEJM, showing that your hobby horse, ivermectin, is worthless.”
Enter into a dialogue with America’s Frontline Docters and the like. And let me know the outcome.
“We already knew that (those of us who really understand the statistics anyway, I know that club doesn’t include you) but it needs to be mentioned that the “uncertainty” you keep pushing is pure builshit — just like your end of the word conspiracy and moral decline line.”
This world as a system will end indeed; but an all destroying third world war will not come.
You still haven’t noticed any changes in society? Well, I did and on many levels.
Now we even start seeing high prices and shortages; in 2019 I warned some relatives of mine exactly for these problems and emailed them about it. It’s their hard earned cash that I thought they had better invest wisely. At least they could not deny later on that I told them.
I really wonder why just a few experts warned for high inflation on the horizon, as it was so likely to follow the immoral decisions our governments had made. Did you see it coming back then? Ask yourself why not.
Meanwhile it’s high inflation, shortages, a disturbing war, a pandemic. Like I said before, this goes from bad to worse. But keep denying and try to stay in that bubble as long as it pops with a big plop. That this is only about your freedom, why would a self hater like you care?
Definately moral decline is the number one factor responsible for the huge shift in society – which has already started. But this shift will turn out differently then what is planned in coordination by the UN, WEF, big business, our governers (merely as puppets on the string) and allied organisations.
I just wonder how far these plans will be unrolled. Because like I said before, along the way these organisations and governments will come with some declaration that all will be great and good. Precisely that will be the turning point. Some huge and long existing organisations will be attacked and get rid of immediatly after. That’s the start of a period of real chaos and misery – this is not my prediction, so don’t blame me; but it will take place without any doubt. At the end of that period there is worldwide destruction and not only will the perpetrators come to an end. In fact most people will, depending on the choices they made in life.
I wish you wisdom.
@ldw56old
Are you in bed with covid? You always immediatly respond with that hatespeech of yours, so my initial thought was that my post wasn’t placed here. But no, it appeared posted and you did read it.
Now that Leonard Sugarman ran out of arguments and told me goodbye, it is surprising to see that you did exactly so and at exactly the same moment. Isn’t that weird?
An 80 year old guy that has not any relation with Orac – or with you for that matter – whatsoever, determines your behaviour?
Or…, is he you senior? Lying about his age, history and his involvement with Orac / Big Pharma, he told you to stop the communication? Isn’t this whole Orac BS circus just one heck of a lie with its diffuse, shadowy and nontransparent behaviour.
And aren’t you just no more then a disgusting little worm?
You bunch of filthy liars. Disgusting as you are, how on earth can live with yourselves?
Just asking.
Lucas-I really haven’t much started arguing with you but since you have posted responses to the order of about 280 times where every conceivable argument with regards your prophecies, conspiracies , financial corruption allegations, Covid, Ivermectin and more have been in the main utterly refuted in ways which any rational person could understand and agree with, it leaves little different that that I can add that could possibly alter your opinions.
Even the psychology of persons such as yourself have been explored many times on Oracs blog. You are what I would describe as ‘bomb proof’. Nothing can change your strongly held opinions. I have no links of any kind with any of the commenters and Orac outside of this forum. I am senior to nobody. Just occasionally I may have a different way of expressing what others’ have done most often more eloquently and for sure more informatively.
You have still to put some money where your mouth is with regard my age.
I have noticed over this whole saga that you wish respect, which you have not earned, from the commenters, accusing them of insults and such, which is often undeniable, but you reciprocate in kind so have nothing to complain about.
The fact of Idw56old and myself disengaging from you coincidently is nothing more than total frustration with your continuing imbecility which other commenters long ago recognised and did likewise. They have shown more sense than us ‘two’. They climbed out of your rabbit hole much sooner.
Just saying.
@Leonard Sugarman
“since you have posted responses to the order of about 280 times”
With your 80 years of age and not being connected to Orac whatsoever, how can you possibly know about the amount of posts of others? You forget to play that role of yours, Leonard.
“where every conceivable argument with regards your prophecies, conspiracies , financial corruption allegations, Covid, Ivermectin and more have been in the main utterly refuted in ways which any rational person could understand and agree with, it leaves little different that that I can add that could possibly alter your opinions.”
Prophecies: some are mine and some are not, but you have started to see them coming true already. You will remember me in the times ahead, I’m sure. Lets hope that you’re smart enough now and do what you have to do to protect yourself.
“Financial corruption allegation”, doesn’t that make me laugh? No Leonard, of course there is no such thing. It’s just that as economists we see it about everywhere.
You’re a funny man, Leonard. Completely blind, but funny.
“Even the psychology of persons such as yourself have been explored many times on Oracs blog. You are what I would describe as ‘bomb proof’. Nothing can change your strongly held opinions.”
Really? Well, I change my opinion after proven wrong. Only fools stubbornly keep following nonsens.
“I have no links of any kind with any of the commenters and Orac outside of this forum. I am senior to nobody. Just occasionally I may have a different way of expressing what others’ have done most often more eloquently and for sure more informatively.”
And always in line with the Orac BS. Isn’t that weird?
“You have still to put some money where your mouth is with regard my age.”
Yeah right.
“I have noticed over this whole saga that you wish respect, which you have not earned, from the commenters, accusing them of insults and such, which is often undeniable, but you reciprocate in kind so have nothing to complain about.”
I have the respect from the people that know me. And I guess I would have yours too if you knew who I am. Then you would know that every word I said about the outragious plans I mentioned here, might unfortunately be more then true. You are not an insider and you don’t read; certainly not the relevant material. You are clueless about the future.
And tell me, what’s the use of respect anyway as long as I’m anonymous? Isn’t that similar to having friends at Facebook?
Leonard, you and I know that one cannot earn respect from people that hate what you say. So what you say makes no sense.
And then, what do you buy for the respect of others?
“The fact of Idw56old and myself disengaging from you coincidently is nothing more than total frustration with your continuing imbecility which other commenters long ago recognised and did likewise. They have shown more sense than us ‘two’. They climbed out of your rabbit hole much sooner.
Just saying.”
Imbecility like giving you proof of your absurd mRNA vaccines killing way more then admitted? Me think not, sir.
Furthermore I have shown before that life cannot appear out of nowhere, abiogenesis is a scientific non-starter. A.o. calculation of chance makes it impossible. Explain the 3 bln bits of data at the right spot. And this with the knowledge that there is no such thing as junk DNA (another misleading fantasy proven wrong). In two words: IM POSSIBLE.
And let someone show me that RNA can catalyse its own template-directed replication, so RNA could be replicated and express genetic information. It cannot.
Show me that the chemical groups that would facilitate the emergence of complex holistically replicative networks are there. They aren’t.
The kinetic and thermodynamic factors prevent the maintenance of thermodynamically unstable, replicating systems. Proof me otherwise if you think differently.
Show me the operating system for autocatalytic reactions. There isn’t.
Damningly, the powerful mechanisms of biological evolution were not available for all the stages preceding the emergence of replicator systems. Tell me in detail if you think otherwise.
Life is an all or nothing business. The stories of protocells and a gradual emergence by chemical evolution are pseudo-science. Hopeless BS in correct English.
Life is all about information. Aarno S. – I hope he reads along – lives in a surreal imaginary world, on purpose looking in the wrong direction. Like so many of you do here. That makes you haters of yourself; am I right or not? Think about it now, as this will become relevant.
This all is not my “imbecility”, it’s yours.
I have also proven that the harmony in design you see everywhere in nature is not in the eye of the beholder and cannot be explained without a designer. Please challenge me. I’m an Industrial Designer that likes to be convinced otherwise. Untill that happens, let’s say that – again – I’m not the one coping with “imbecility”. That concerns people like you.
Just three of the subjects discussed here. It should be enough to alarm you on that corrupted reasoning of you guys. Stay the fools you are and you will encounter yourselves. What else should I say to penetrate that dirty swamp in your heads? Can you not see that all I’ve done here is trying to pull you guys out of your own “rabbit holes”?
Just one final question Lucas: how, when you are clearly so ignorant of statistics, science, and more, can you find the gall to be such a liar? You seem to have abandoned all sense of what is required to be a decent person. You’re the only one who will believe your crap and your prophecies of world-wide doom, so enjoy your dishonest little fantasy world. I hope you don’t harm anyone with your views.
@ldw56old
“These “numerous deaths” is not a view, merely a proof by statistics. :
No, it is a bald faced lie pushed by you and others. No matter how much you losers push it, it isn’t true. You are truly a low-life.”
If it would be a bald faced lie, the data of our own governments – excess deaths and who is vaccinated at what day – are bald faced lies. I have no reason to assume they are. And I think you don’t either.
You still don’t get it, do you?
Lucas-your analytical qualities are evident from within your first sentence-‘how can you possibly know about the amount of posts of others’? It displays how little benefit you have acquired from your studies and work particularly in the area of statistics. The simple answer of course is COUNTING the posts with the highlighted word LUCAS at the beginning. What role I am alleged have eludes me but my approximate counting of your entries may display the bad influence you are having on my psyche!
Be assured that not only will I not remember you regards any of your thoughts but this will be the final time i ever respond to you. My psychiatric and psychological knowledge, as extensive as yours scientific, allows me one professional diagnosis of your condition-NUTS.
My financial corruption was alluding to your accusations that Orac was on the take from say vested interests in pharma, which he answered and you don’t believe.
There appears to be nothing rational that could ever change your mind. You cannot be proven wrong! You know better than the consensus of opinions of experts in many fields , who have spent large parts of their life mastering their disciplines ( not necessarily from Orac or the commenters).You seem to have no concept of evidence even when it’s right under your nose.
The reason you perceive that what I say is in line ‘with the Orac BS’ is that we are guided by the similar principles of critical thinking and the paramountcy of evidence in it’s many guises, although I make no claim to any expertise, except perhaps to dealing with and teaching science to teenagers for 37 years in the UK.
I wouldn’t say I am clueless about the future but I would never venture to PROPHECY future events since their are so many indeterminate factors at play in our lives on this planet I read, a lot, but probably little you have ever experienced.
Of the many valuable books possible to read I will recommend two, just to get you started on your healing process. The first is ‘The Demon Haunted World’ by Carl Sagan
and the second ‘Real Science’ by John Ziman, both easily obtainable. If you really wish to understand evolution ( not the origin of life) then you could hardly do better than reading some of Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould.
And with that our paths must now finally diverge.
@ldw56old
“Just one final question Lucas: how, when you are clearly so ignorant of statistics, science, and more, can you find the gall to be such a liar? You seem to have abandoned all sense of what is required to be a decent person. You’re the only one who will believe your crap and your prophecies of world-wide doom, so enjoy your dishonest little fantasy world. I hope you don’t harm anyone with your views.”
If there is a liar, it should be our governments and related institutes that keep records of who dies and when, as well as who is vaccinated and when. You can’t blame the ones that classify these data in charts, can you? The fact that I’ve spelled this out so often for you but you still denying this and cursing at people that simply do their job, means that either you’re fruitcake or just bad.
Apparently the problem with you is that you reflect your own set of traits to others; you expect them to be like you.
I cannot help that here at ‘respectfulinsolence’ it is not at all about truth-finding. It is about defending stinking commercial interests of wealthy third parties. So you simply lie when having no substantial clue left and curse the one telling truth. Or you denigrate, mislead, distract, ignore, blame or whatever it is you need for your dirty cause.
Nice boss you have there. And you pieces of shit seem to follow him like your Führer.
I don’t come up with prophecies, I parrot them at most.
And what is and will be happening at the cultural, social and economic front I can tell you indeed. Economics has to do with cycles and even wars come and go in cycles; you might read ‘De onvermijdelijkheid van een nieuwe wereldoorlog’ of scientist Ingo Piepers. You should be able to find the English version.
Next to cycles most important is it to use common sense and intuition. But the base should be knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. Read history and you’re wise about your future.
The problem is that you don’t read what matters. Which means you will never be able to connect the dots.
As a result you live you will always have to work hard for your money as long as you live. Money that others will take away from you; we call this inflation. Or more bold simply theft.
Most people adore their executioners and even choose them. Fine, then don’t complain later. It’s these people that come up with their so called claim of a solution to the problems they created themselves. The shift that follows will be one of life or death; for them, for you, for me, for all. Don’t say by then that you didn’t know.
I certainly wouldn’t call this doom, that depends on your choices in life.
@Leonard Sugarman
“Lucas-your analytical qualities are evident from within your first sentence-‘how can you possibly know about the amount of posts of others’? It displays how little benefit you have acquired from your studies and work particularly in the area of statistics. The simple answer of course is COUNTING the posts with the highlighted word LUCAS at the beginning.”
That is the simple answer. But not the real answer, Leonard.
He he, no one would count them. Lying again, Leonard. Just lying and denigrating.
“Be assured that not only will I not remember you regards any of your thoughts but this will be the final time i ever respond to you. My psychiatric and psychological knowledge, as extensive as yours scientific, allows me one professional diagnosis of your condition-NUTS.”
Of course you will remember, Leonard. That’s how repetition works; you should know with your psychological knowledge. And we have no erase knob.
“My financial corruption was alluding to your accusations that Orac was on the take from say vested interests in pharma, which he answered and you don’t believe.”
Leonard, one wise lesson from me: physicians never do anything for free. So yes, there are mutual interests. No matter how hard you try to hide them. You’re a funny man, Leonard. Thinking everyone is naive.
“There appears to be nothing rational that could ever change your mind. You cannot be proven wrong!”
Not easy indeed. Just like you, isn’t it? Or did I change your mind in even one way? If you change your mind you didn’t do your homework well enough. I did my homework, how about you?
“You know better than the consensus of opinions of experts in many fields , who have spent large parts of their life mastering their disciplines ( not necessarily from Orac or the commenters).You seem to have no concept of evidence even when it’s right under your nose.”
No Leonard, there is no consensus. Not at all. As you know so well. Why don’t you quit that isolation psycho game?
“The reason you perceive that what I say is in line ‘with the Orac BS’ is that we are guided by the similar principles of critical thinking and the paramountcy of evidence in it’s many guises, although I make no claim to any expertise, except perhaps to dealing with and teaching science to teenagers for 37 years in the UK.”
We? Who is we?
And don’t mix critical thinking with commercial thinking. Or group thinking – which is per definition wrong as you should know with that psychological knowledge of yours. Wrong and dangerous.
“I wouldn’t say I am clueless about the future but I would never venture to PROPHECY future events since their are so many indeterminate factors at play in our lives on this planet I read, a lot, but probably little you have ever experienced.”
Agree. And that’s why prophecy is not for humans. And that’s why I parrot that part.
But parts of the future we can definitaly get insight into. Like the huge inflation we experience now, the shortages, the war. And for people like Gates the pandemy he told us in advance was certain to happen. Gates, the prophet that couldn’t exist according to Leonard.
Like I said, with insight information about certain plans, even I can be that prophet. I prefer to call this rolled out plans.
No Leonard, things will turn out like I said they will. And you will remember this every time this world makes the next step in the ‘wrong’ direction. You might take advantage of it while you still can, cause at the final step it will be too late.
“Of the many valuable books possible to read I will recommend two, just to get you started on your healing process. The first is ‘The Demon Haunted World’ by Carl Sagan
and the second ‘Real Science’ by John Ziman, both easily obtainable. If you really wish to understand evolution ( not the origin of life) then you could hardly do better than reading some of Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould.”
Carl Sagan, the science fiction guy that assembled the first physical messages sent into space, ment for extraterrestrial intelligence in outer space? And that’s the one you recommend me to read? You funny man. Why didn’t you recommend Giambattista Basile?
Leonard, don’t be a fool: there is no such thing as extraterrestrial life that will reply us. Like I said before: intentionally looking in the wrong direction.
Haven’t I made clear that life cannot come into existance without a creator? So send your messages, send them, send them. Send them as long as you like. But it will stay damn quiet. Or did you think the creator in whom Mr. Sagan does not believe, will respond? You foolish people.
Oh and wasn’t it Mr. Sagan that predicted that the oil fires in Kuwait of 1990 – 1991 would result in a summerless year? Still sure you want me to read his books, Leonard?
‘Real Science’…, is there such thing as unreal science? Be careful with ‘science’, Leonard. You wanna go down that rabbit hole with me?
And yes! There we’ve got our joker: Richard Dawkins. Wowy! The man that draws conclusions through hate.
Leonard, the sun comes up in the east. Why do you look westwards? Because your friend Dawkins does so? That’s disturbing behaviour, Leonard. Dawkins believes in fairy tales, in that respect he’s a fool.
Share this with your friend Dawkins: THINGS THAT ARE NOT POSSIBLE WILL NOT HAPPEN. Tell him that this is the Law of Lucas. It’s universal and it’s always obeyed.
“And with that our paths must now finally diverge.”
So you keep telling me.
@All
Those massive amounts of hidden killings of the vaccines that the aforementioned statistiscs brought to light, in several ways remind me of what you may want to watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz8ge4aw8Ws
Doesn’t the fact that you keep lying about its safety, that you say it is necessary for the protection of others, that you and your masters oblige you to take the jabs or exclude you from society, that you endlessly pressure and bully the unvaccinated to get the jabs and you even inject little children with it, place you in the same category as these medical workers shown in the documentary? Just consider the similarities.
You may have the ‘system’ to back you, like in those days the documatary is about. In reality your moral compass is so fucked up that perverse is the description that suits you.
@Leonard Sugerman, Aarno Syvänen
“If you really wish to understand evolution (not the origin of life) then you could hardly do better than reading some of Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould.”
Leonard, I think your postulation is wrong. Very wrong.
So you’ve been a science teacher for 37 years. According to the encyclopedia of Scientific Principles, Laws, and Theories a scientific theory (like f.e. Einstein’s gravity theory) should be:
1. observable
2. replicable with controlled experiments
3. able to make accurate predictions
Like you implied, your friend Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould (or any other scientist with a materialistic approach on the subject for that matter) is clueless about the origin of life (abiogenesis).
Nevertheless we observe life. So let us then suppose that life was created and discuss the next step you presume: evolution. Your friends fill books about the subject and since they are scientists, the naïves think that what they teach them must be science. Perhaps you’ve related evolution and science to your pupils as well. Then you’ve mislead them.
Leonard, do not mix up the terms macro evolution, micro evolution and genetic entropy. When an evolutionist talks about evolution, in general he means macro evolution.
Macro evolution is the formation of new groups of species, new taxonomic categories. Micro evolution on the other hand is simply a misleading term for adaptation; it takes place within a species and concerns variations under the influence of selection and drift. As a result of this ‘populatation genetics’ a species adapts to its environment. The best adapted fenotypes have the highest fitness and as a result have a higher share in the next generation. Where there is life there is adaptation and make no mistake: it was already embedded in the genes of the species. Genetic entropy is the genetic degeneration of living things. It is the systematic breakdown of the internal biological information systems that ‘make life alive’. Genetic entropy results from genetic mutations, which are typographical errors in the programming of life (life’s instruction manuals). Mutations systematically erode the information that encodes life’s many essential functions. Biological information consists of a large set of specifications, and random mutations systematically scramble these specifications – gradually but relentlessly destroying the programming instructions essential to life. Information and information systems always degenerate. This is obviously true in the human realm, but is equally true in the biological realm – contrary to what evolutionists falsely claim. There is universal tendency for all biological information systems to degenerate over time. Much of what Darwin observed and concluded to be macro evolution was in fact nothing more then degeneration. Sure you must have heard of the ‘Darwin vinches’; what he observed on those isolated islands was just degeneration, Leonard.
Degeneration as well as adaptation (micro evolution) we observe literally everywhere. Macro evolution however has NEVER been observed.
Add to this that macro evolution is not replicable with experiments. The third requirement for having anything to do with science – able to make accurate predictions – isn’t met either. Therefore: MACRO EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE. It’s just an unscientific imaginary theory, a lie if you will. Wake up.
Leonard, contrary to what you may think I do “understand evolution”, at least the theoratical principle. And I know the content of “Richard Dawkins and Stephen Jay Gould”. Furhter I am aware about their blind desire of materialistic explanation. This is why I have the authority to say that your advice for me that I could “hardly do better than reading some of Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould” is an ignorant and utter stupid advice.
How many times have I tried to make clear that the world we live in is in many ways ruled by lies. Have you ever asked yourself why that is? If there could perhaps be an entity / entities behind that, controlling all of his / their influencers here? Entities very clever (however not that original I must say) that benefit from putting up smokescreens? If not, then it’s about time that you do.
As long as you’re ignorant of the fact that evil does exist, you will not understand what’s really going on in this world. Period.
The problem with you guys is not a lack of intellect; it’s a lack of honesty, in the first place to yourselves. This is why you love lies and hate the opposite. That’s of course entirely your choice. But like I’ve said many times now, you will pay a price for it: your life. And it’s my evaluation of all input that you are going to pay that price rather soon. So for your own sakes, work on your personality while you still can. Don’t stay a fool and go down with this sinking ship. Please.
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