Categories
Medicine Politics Popular culture Quackery

What do Tucker Carlson, testicular tanning, and fascism have in common?

Last week, Fox News pundit Tucker Carlson ran a trailer for The End of Men, a special claiming that men are getting weak due to low testosterone levels. It’s pure fascist worship of “masculinity” combined with “bromeopathy.”

I will admit that the headline for this post is a question that I never thought I would ever ask for any reason at all at any time ever. Since the pandemic hit, Carlson has, of course, become one of the foremost purveyors of COVID-19 misinformation and antivaccine talking points in the US while promoting ivermectin and other COVID-19miracle cures” long after science had shown them to be quackery. He is also almost certainly the foremost propagandist for white supremacist and fascism in the US, at least in terms of his popularity, reach, and nightly opportunity to promote such ideas to a wide and devoted audience. Given the veritable panoply of conspiracy theories, quackery, COVID-19 disinformation, and antivaccine pseudoscience that Carlson has spewed over the last couple of years, I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised about anything I’ve seen from him.

I must admit, though, that when I started seeing these sorts of Tweets over the weekend, even I was a bit taken aback:

My first thought was identical: WTF is this? Is he recharging his penis or something? And why does he have to raise his hands to the sunrise while standing naked on a pile of rocks to do it?

That second image is a form of woo that even I didn’t recall ever having seen before, but it didn’t take me long to find out what it was supposed to be:

So apparently shining red light on your genitals has “so much data out there” to support its “massive benefits.” Ri-ight…. Even Kid Rock ain’t buying it, and when Kid Rock is the skeptic in the group you really have lost the plot.

All I could think was that, if even Kid Rock—Kid Rock!—laughs at you and responds, “Dude, stop testicle tanning,” reducing you to responding with a reply as weak as, “Open your mind,” you’ve really wandered even further away from rationality than usual. Who thought that Carlson could go so far into the realm of quackery that even Kid Rock says, “WTF?” (I will—grudgingly—give Kid Rock credit for a somewhat amusing joke about naming a band “Testicle Tanning.”) While it’s good to have an open mind, it’s not good to have a mind so open that your brains fall out. On the other hand, I have little doubt that Carlson knows exactly what he’s doing.

Don’t believe me? Look at what Carlson says after that:

Don’t you think at this point, when so many of the therapies they’ve told us to take have turned out to be dead ends that have really hurt people, why wouldn’t open-minded people seek new solutions?

How many quacks that I’ve written about have said something similar, appealing to being “open-minded”? It’s even worse than that, though. in the clip above, Andrew McGovern, the “fitness professional,” interviewed by Carlson, claims that there are “so much data out there” supporting the wonder benefits of shining a red light on your junk, even though there most definitely isn’t:

So. Very. Very. Much Data. Of course…

This leads Carlson, propagandist that he is, to concede that this sounds ridiculous, saying “Half the viewers out there are going, ‘What? Testicle tanning. That’s crazy!'”

Not that the crazy stops him or even slows him down. Indeed, Carlson immediately pivots to a false equivalence:

But my view is, OK, testosterone levels crash and no one says anything about it. That’s crazy. So, why is it crazy to seek solutions?

This is a basic one-two appeal of quacks: First, there’s no good treatment or science doesn’t (yet) understand what’s going on. This leads to the false conclusion that we should try anything, no matter how ridiculous, and you should “open minded” about it. For his part, McGovern goes on to say that he’s been recently exposed to a term, “bromeopathy.” This is the most unintentionally hilarious thing I’ve seen a quack say in a long time. Combine “bro” with homeopathy (a.k.a. The One Quackery To Rule Them All)? Yes! That’s basically what this is almost, except that the red light will actually warm your testicles if you leave them in the red glow long enough. Of course, as some have pointed out, if you are worried about low sperm count, it’s really, really counterproductive to warm your testicles, given that the ideal temperature for sperm production is a few degrees F lower than body temperature.

After seeing Carlson’s trailer, I couldn’t help but remember a post from a more innocent time not long before the pandemic hit, when a certain viral image was going around the Intertubez:

perineum sunning

And, complete with the sort of manly imagery that Tucker Carlson seems to love:

I just had to post this again because watching the video makes me laugh so much. And, no, of course there was nothing homoerotic about any of this. Perish the thought, you pervs!
Um, I got nothing here.

The difference, as you might or might not remember, was that back then the idea was to sun your perineum and your anus. (I kid you not.) Going against Tucker’s appeal to “bromeopathy” was this one image that was also going around:

“Manly, yes, but I like it too.” (Unfortunately, I can’t resist riffing on Old Spice commercials from decades ago.)

The concept of sunning your butthole, perineum, or nether regions was a concept so ridiculous that at the time I openly wondered whether it was some sort of deliberate and elaborate trolling by social media wellness influencers. Apparently I was wrong.

I also wondered:

So. Many. Questions. For one thing, these are men doing the perineum sunning, which brings up the indelicate question of what they do with their…well, their junk…while their “buttholes” are supposedly soaking up the sun. That’s some delicate skin there! Of course, the perineum is also covered in delicate skin, and the skin around the anus is also quite delicate. That might be why you don’t want to sun it for very long; it’s likely to burn more easily.

Maybe testicular tanning was the answer, with gentle red light with a wavelength too long to do any damage to the very sensitive skin of the perineum and scrotum. No wonder Tucker Carlson fell for it.

While it’s easy to laugh at the ridiculousness of the idea of testicular tanning, warming your junk, or whatever you want to call it, the documentary, The End of Men, looks to be far less amusing given the silly quackery in it. To start to see what I mean, take a look (if you dare) at the full trailer:

Note added after publication: Oops. Apparently Carlson doesn’t want me embedding his video. So if you want to see it, you’ll have to click on the link above. Sorry…

I was initially a bit confused, wondering whether this was for just one episode, or if Carlson’s whole series was going to be about the supposed “end of men,” with individual episodes covering different things. It all became clearer when I found Carlson’s website, where, in addition to the trailer for The End of Men, there were trailers for episodes covering topics like—I kid you not!—UFOs and cattle mutilations and transgender “detransitioners,” this latter topic a favorite harped on by “gender critical” transphobes to argue that trans adolescents should not undergo gender affirming care even though it is the current standard of care. There’s even a conspiracy theory involving this that very much remembers antivaccine conspiracy theories. I’ve been meaning to write about it, but need to be in a mood when I’m ready to handle the utter shitstorm that it will almost certainly provoke. (Let’s just say that I’ve gone through this before…elsewhere…last year.)

Other episodes of Tucker Carlson’s documentary propaganda, even as an older cis/het white guy, I can’t help but notice all the sweaty shirtless (and even naked) male bodies. Predictably, this led to lots of joking on the Internet social media about the incredibly unsubtle homoerotic subtext behind the last 50 seconds or so of the trailer:

I wouldn’t know…
So. Many. Shirtless (and with less clothing). Buff. Male. Bodies. Doing. Manly. Things.
Indeed. There are actually versions of this video in which the soundtrack was replaced with “It’s Raining Men” by The Weather Girls or “YMCA” by The Village People, both of which work quite well. As an aside, what’s with the abuse of Richard Strauss? I probably won’t be able to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey ever again without thinking of testicular tanning. Damn you, Tucker Carlson!

Easy jokes about the gayness of all the imagery in the last third Carlson’s trailer aside (and, let’s face it, some of the jokes were hilarious), there is nonetheless something deadly serious going on with this trailer. If you know anything about fascism you can’t help but see it Carlson’s obsessive focus on utterly manly manliness, including testosterone levels and sperm counts, along with the concern that today’s men aren’t as manly as they used to be and that this decline in the manliest (American) masculine manliness is leading to the feminization and therefore degeneration of our country, as illustrated by the voiceover for the trailer:

Once a society collapses then, you’re in hard times. Well, hard iron sharpens iron as they say, and those hard times inevitably produce men who are tough, men who are resourceful, men who are strong enough to survive. They go on to reestablish order, and so the cycle begins again.

So apparently the manliest masculine manly men will be the ones we need to save us from the coming apocalypse and collapse of society! Seriously, though, the entire idea behind the trailer is that “hard times make strong men,” who then “bring order” (apparently fascist order) to reverse the hard times, order that then apparently provides all the girly men the safety they need not to die because they are protected by the order brought by the manly men made hard by the previous hard times. (I know I’m being repetitive. Just go with it for a moment.) It is very much fascist imagery, as PZ Myers mentioned. He even included this meme:

Tucker Carlson: Hard times make hard men?
Funny, but Tucker Carlson left out the part of the “hard times make strong men” about how the “order” enforced by “strong men” supposedly leads to the rise of weak men, who end up destroying society and bringing on hard times again. Why is that? Also, even if this nonsense cycle is accurate, does anyone see the flaw? Shouldn’t we be asking what can be done after “order” is established to prevent the cycle from repeating? Also, plagues cause hard times, and, as we’ve seen, many of the manly men, besides being helpless against COVID-19, seem to be the ones doing a lot to make sure that the plague doesn’t end.

What, though, makes this montage and concept so disturbing? Here’s a hint. I saw this particular Tweet before I had even become aware of The End of Men, and the Tweet confused me until I stumbled upon all the jokes about Tucker Carlson’s trailer:

The Leni Riefenstahl aesthetic is just the icing on the fascist cake, and Tucker Carlson is the perfect baker to provide that decoration!

I also must admit that some of the responses were quite amusing—and disturbing:

Paul gets serious credit for his play on Triumph of the Will.

And it’s not as though this Trump-soaked era doesn’t have its own manly masculine male iconography, although it never ceases to amaze me how anyone could produce “art” like this, which is so bad that it almost makes me miss Leni Riefenstahl:

The truly unhinged thing about the bottom cartoon is that Justin Trudeau actually did box and is quite buff. Similarly, President Obama has a rather sculpted physique and looks really good for a 60 year old man. Meanwhile, even though President Biden is not exactly “swole,” he is nonetheless fit enough to ride a bicycle for fairly long distances and to have run through the White House with President Obama when he was still Vice President, which is pretty good for a man in his late 70s. All of these men are arguably far more manly and physically fit than President Trump ever was. In fact, I’d love to see what Trudeau could do to Trump in the ring. It would not be pretty—for Trump.

Does Prof. Stanley’s name ring a bell? Here’s a hint: He’s a Yale historian famous for studying authoritarian and fascist movements. Still don’t remember? OK, he wrote a book that I read over the Christmas holiday weekend, How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them. In fact, I used Prof. Stanley’s book as a structure for my discussion a few months ago about why the antivaccine movement has such an affinity for fascism by listing several of the elements of fascist ideologies described in the book and relating how antivaccine views share similar ideologies.

There was one aspect of fascist ideology that I didn’t really discuss much in that post, specifically how fascism is obsessed with hyper-masculinity and a strong male leader, specifically patriarchal masculinity and how the proper order of society is that it is run by men, with women’s proper role being to raise children and maintain the home.

One quote:

Patriarchal masculinity sets up men with the expectation that society will allow them the role of sole protectors and providers of their families. In times of extreme economic anxiety, men, already made anxious by a perceived loss of status resulting from increasing gender equality, can easily be thrust into panic by demagoguery directed against sexual minorities.

Another:

In fascist attacks on universities, the universities play the role of the Nazi “Jewish conspiracy” behind the women’s movement. Universities subvert masculinity and undermine the traditional family by supporting gender studies.

Going hand-in-hand with the obsession with only the strongest, manliest, most masculine of masculinity, fascism also fears and attacks “feminization,” as represented by feminism and women’s rights.

Let Prof. Stanley summarize:

National Socialism targeted women’s movements and feminism generally; for the Nazis, feminism was a Jewish conspiracy to destroy fertility among Aryan women. Charu Gupta aptly summarizes the Nazi attitude toward feminist movements:
[Nazis] believed that the women’s movement was part of an international Jewish conspiracy to subvert the German family and thus destroy the German race. The movement, it claimed, was encouraging women to assert their economic independence and to neglect their proper task of producing children. It was spreading the feminine doctrines of pacifism, democracy and “materialism.” By encouraging contraception and abortion and so lowering the birth rate, it was attacking the very existence of the German people.4
In fascist attacks on universities, the universities play the role of the Nazi “Jewish conspiracy” behind the women’s movement. Universities subvert masculinity and undermine the traditional family by supporting gender studies.

Fascism also hates anything it perceives as the feminization of men, including homosexuality and, especially, transgender people. That makes it no surprise that Tucker Carlson is using his documentary series to promote transphobia.

Again, as Prof. Stanley notes:

Since fascist politics has, at its basis, the traditional patriarchal family, it is characteristically accompanied by panic about deviations from it. Transgender individuals and homosexuals are used to heighten anxiety and panic about the threat to traditional male gender roles.

In that vein, Robin Pennacchia at Wonkette observed this about Carlson’s trailer for his documentary series:

I feel like Tucker’s intention here is that men look at this and think “This could be us, but for the feminists!” and women are supposed to think “Oh no! What have we wrought! We could have had men like this, licking milk up off the ground and flipping giant tires around in the desert, but no! We had to have human rights!”

And I don’t think that’s happening. At least not for me. I mean, frankly, it’s not even hot in a problematic way, like Humphrey Bogart’s speech about how no one cares that he can ride or fight anymore. Men have been bitching about how no one will let them be manly anymore not just since 1939, but since Ancient Greece (at least). You think they’d be better at it by now, come up with something more appealing, some case more convincing, but no. Nope. Just dick power charging/tanning stations and raw eggs. You would think that people so desperate to bring toxic masculinity back would make a better case for it than “Hey, here’s a guy in an outside bathtub. You like that? Hmm?”

Unsurprisingly, Prof. Stanley was far the only person to notice the obviously fascist messaging and imagery in the trailer:

The comparison is apt, although Carlson and his videographer do not have anywhere near the aesthetic chops that Leni Riefenstahl did when it came to lighting and cinematography.
Just add men shooting things up for the fun of it, and I suppose so.

They’re not wrong, either. Fascism tends to worship the masculine while viewing homosexuals and transgender people as dire threats to what they view as the normal patriarchal order of things that has supposedly been “nature’s will” since time immemorial.

Did anyone notice one more thing about the full-length trailer? At around the 50 sec. mark, there’s a voice that will likely be instantly familiar to regular readers here. It is a creepy voice that I recognized immediately when I first heard the voiceover lamenting a decline in testosterone and sperm counts over the last 40 years, all as images of a baby, an egg being fertilized, a manly man doing pushups, and an apparently not-so-manly obese man with gynecomastia, before it’s revealed that the voiceover is coming from antivaxxer Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who predicts a coming “calamity” because of this lack of testosterone and manliness. (I’ll concede that he didn’t use the word “manliness,” but he did predict an impending “calamity” due to low testosterone levels and sperm counts in men, characterizing this impending “calamity” as a “medical fact.”) Let’s just put it this way. The part of the trailer with all the muscular manly masculine men lovingly filmed doing manly masculine things is just the last third or so of the trailer. The first two thirds sets up the idea that the masculine manliness portrayed in the last part of the trailer is in dire danger. Those of us familiar with RFK Jr. and other crank and antivax claims can immediately guess what is supposedly endangering all this manliness and turning this generation of men into girly men.

Given that before RFK Jr. showed up the trailer featured images of pesticides, an obese man in a bathing suit, dead fish, and pollution, you can guess what RFK Jr.’s message in the episode will be. His shtick has long been the false claim that this generation of children is the “sickest generation,” all because of pollution, pesticides, GMOs, and, of course, above all, vaccines. While it is true that vaccines are not mentioned in the trailer, just the appearance of RFK Jr. tells me that they will almost certainly play a significant part in the story. Indeed, as I’ve mentioned before, antivaxxers have long falsely claimed that vaccines destroy fertility. Usually, it’s female fertility that antivaxxers fear monger about, but they also falsely claim that vaccines reduce sperm counts and harm the male reproductive system. Does anyone remember the story from singer and rapper Nicki Minaj that a COVID-19 vaccine caused testicular swelling and impotence in a cousin’s friend in Trinidad? She even claimed that the man had to call off his wedding. There was, of course, no evidence, but her claim was of the same variety as claims that vaccines reduce sperm count. There’s even a conspiracy theory that COVID-19 vaccines can make people gay or trans. It’s not a new antivax claim, either, as I recall having seen it years ago.

When I wrote about all the commonalities between fascism and the antivaccine movement that has led to such an affinity between the two, with an increasingly strong alliance between antivaxxers and outright fascists like Proud Boys and fascist enablers and propagandists like Tucker Carlson: Mythic (lost) past, anti-intellectualism, unreality and conspiracy theories, victimhood, and, of course, “purity,” be it racial purity in the case of fascists or bodily “purity,” which has even led antivaxxers to portray themselves as “purebloods.” To this, Tucker Carlson has added toxic masculinity and fascist imagery of manly masculine men doing manly masculine things but whose manly masculinity is supposedly “threatened” by all the same sorts of things that antivaxxers fear, things that are supposedly “feminizing” them by lowering their testosterone levels and destroying their manly function of fathering children.

It should be no surprise that Carlson has fallen hard for serious woo (or at least decided that grifting based on such woo is a great path forward), either. After all, fascists are often into woo. The Nazis, for instance, had Heinrich Himmler’s belief in the occult and were huge proponents of naturopathy and other alternative medicine, including homeopathy. Today, people like Mike Adams and Alex Jones sell unproven supplements along with their quackery and antivaccine views. I might have to watch this particular episode of Carlson’s little fascist project, just to see how deep it goes. (I mean, UFOs?)

As Phillip Bump put it at The Washington Post:

It picks up on a line of argument that Carlson has been promoting for years now: that men — specifically American men — are weaker physically than they used to be and that this translates into weaker political leadership. The video is a weird combination of homophobia and homoerotica, but we can leave that to others to analyze. Either way, it’s a compelling bit of marketing. The testicle-tanning is the lure; the trap closes when you agree to follow the line from that to Carlson’s broader argument about a decline in masculinity and the rise of the left.

Because this is Tucker Carlson, it’s useful to remember that whatever the subject, the ultimate destination is the same: White Americans, particularly older men, are embattled in an increasingly hostile culture and he is giving them the tools to fight back. This episode isn’t called “Examining an Apparent Drop in Testosterone Levels,” after all. It’s apocalyptic, as is nearly everything Carlson produces. Everything is part of the same us-or-them, now-or-never fight between real, masculine Americans and the effete elites.

Sure, it’s easy to laugh at the “testicular tanning” and the “bromeopathic” treatments. They are the sort of things that fifteen years ago I would have played strictly for laughs in a light-hearted manner, as in an installment of Your Friday Dose of Woo. Like homeopathy and jade eggs, testicular tanning is the sort of quackery and woo that certain Very Serious Doctors and scolds of the skeptics movement keep contemptuously telling us are so obviously nonsense that we shouldn’t be wasting our brainpower with such trivialities. They’re wrong. Such ideas are, as ridiculous as they seem to you and me, powerful and often support far darker ideologies. They always have, and it’s never been nearly as easy as people think it should be to counter this sort of quackery.

Seriously, at this point, Carlson and his fellow fascists aren’t even trying to hide their fascist tendencies any more. The antivaccine movement, which had lured the right to its views through resistance to vaccine mandates, has now found itself subsumed by the much larger right wing ideology and belief system.

By Orac

Orac is the nom de blog of a humble surgeon/scientist who has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his copious verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few probably will. That surgeon is otherwise known as David Gorski.

That this particular surgeon has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 35 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)

DISCLAIMER:: The various written meanderings here are the opinions of Orac and Orac alone, written on his own time. They should never be construed as representing the opinions of any other person or entity, especially Orac's cancer center, department of surgery, medical school, or university. Also note that Orac is nonpartisan; he is more than willing to criticize the statements of anyone, regardless of of political leanings, if that anyone advocates pseudoscience or quackery. Finally, medical commentary is not to be construed in any way as medical advice.

To contact Orac: [email protected]

382 replies on “What do Tucker Carlson, testicular tanning, and fascism have in common?”

@has

“Evidence or GTFO.
Nobody here cares what you believe, only what you can prove. And all you prove is that you are full of shit.
Since you cannot and will not cite evidence for any of your bombastic babble, despite our numerous invitations to back up your claims with links to hard facts, you can proceed to FO. /plonk”

What exactly do you want me to provide evidence for?

@Aarno Syvänen

“This paper starts with saying that to do risk benefit analysis of COVID vaccines, you should consider all cause mortality. Does that make any sense ? You should,of course, consider vaccine mortality”

Of course not Aarno, vaccine mortality is what you need to proof. The 14 day period after vaccination ‘trick’ hides vaccine mortality.

@ldw56old

“Just as is the case for your doom-and-gloom conspiracies.”

Sorry mate, it’s the leaders you’ve chosen yourself that are responsible.
However I’ll never use it, I’ve earned good money as a result. Results count; they proof you were right or wrong.

@NumberWang

“Those study authors are mostly electronic engineers/computer scientists. Whilst they may well be capable of performing the required mathematics, they have no authority behind their conclusions.
Therefore, I feel quite comfortable in ignoring everything they say unless it’s repeated by actual medical statistical authority. In exactly the same way that I would ignore the staff at McDonald’s when it comes to wine marriage with Korean food.”

You can draw your own conclusion. It is all about the input (data, reliability of source) and processing of the data. Not that hard actually.
Put differently: can you draw a different conclusion? Let us know which and on what ground.

@Aarno Syvänen

“Interesting thing is that you yourself speak abour leftist war on property. Nazis were all for German property.
German econimic history during Nazis is well known Read it.”

The Nazis carried out a program of Jewish property seizures that stripped European Jews of billions of dollars worth of cash, housing, businesses and personal belongings.
The majority of seized Jewish property was remitted to the Nazi government, either through taxes or confiscations – but a large amount was also siphoned off to individuals in the SS and other Nazi agencies.
Who do you think is the next generation of Jews? It’s you.

F68.10

“Correction: Yes, I’m the same coward as Russian friends of mine that are imprisoned for 6 or 7 years without an honest trial.”

“”After all the shit you spouted, if you dare play the victim card, provide evidence of who they are, under what jurisdiction are they allegedly tortured, the claims authorities brought forward, and the evidence that vindicate your implicit claim that due process was not done.
Otherwise, you’re a crybaby.
And a sick twisted fuck.”

Neither one of both really.
Processes are done, didn’t say they were not, however these are show trials, typical russian style to accomplish goals. Laughable indictment is terrorism.
Several local courts as well as the Russian supreme court. The European Court of Human Rights repeatedly judged in favour of my friends; Russia simply ignores. Buildings and possessions confiscated. Including some of my money.
Some are indeed tortured in prison and during interrogation.
And you consider Putin my friend? You funny man.
But it’s not just Putin, he’s the strawman. In the same sense that Hitler was a strawman, like I wrote before. Different countries, the same enemy.

F68.10

“That kind of putinista rhetoric, I hear it all the time. I’m fed up.
And I’m hearing it from you.”

No you don’t.

“All the more after what you wrote about homosexuality.”

I even was on holiday with a homosexual guy once, we were both young. 1994 or 1995, can’t remember. Saw him at the Zoom today, that’s why I remember.
Still love the guy, but not in a gayway.
But feel free to draw your own silly conclusions. They’re all wrong.
You however propagandize but don’t know what’s behind it. It means you’re a puppet. You seem smart, but you’re not.

@F68.10

““Perhaps there were underlying mental illnesses as well?”
Oh fuck you.”

Oh come on, no one in France in 1992 or so was locked up just because of homosexuality. There must be other reasons. Cut your crap or show me evidence.

“All this whiny talk about vaccine freedom, and then legitimising locking up gays in the name of homosexuality being an illness.
You’re a very sick twisted fuck.”

Legitimising nothing and stay away from my freedom.
Crap again.

@F68.10

You write Truth with a capital letter, as if it is some universal concept. And this truth we want everyone to obey in order for society to run smoothly. Any deviation may give rise to tension, irritation and worse.
Opposite to what you suggest, I do believe in Truth. But defining Truth is already where it gets messy. My definition isn’t yours already as my source of Truth is different.
There is no framework that we all agree on.
Truth by innate conscience? Partly yes. But it’s not enough to keep everlasting discussion and arguing.
More serious is when we see evil behaviour. I would say in this context evil is the ignorance of conscience for a goal.
Stalin as an example you mentioned. Or Putin for that matter. Both ruthless and in power.
How much can be tolerated from such criminals and for how long is this wise? Motivated to stay neutral, I don’t answer such questions.
The judges of such matters, our politicians in the case of Russia, are never going free themselves. That complicates things further.

@all

Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations: The role of G-quadruplexes, exosomes, and MicroRNAs
https://archief.bpoc2020.nl/archief/wetenschap/vaxarticle.pdf

Conclusion:

“There has been an unwavering message about the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccinations against SARS-CoV-2 from the public health apparatus in the US and around the globe. The efficacy is increasingly in doubt, as shown in a recent letter to the Lancet Regional Health by Günter Kampf (2021b). Kampf provided data showing that the vaccinated are now as likely as the unvaccinated to spread disease.”

“In this paper, we call attention to three very important aspects of the safety profile of these vaccinations. First is the extensively documented subversion of innate immunity, primarily via suppression of IFN-α and its associated signaling cascade. This suppression will have a wide range of consequences, not the least of which include the reactivation of latent viral infections and the reduced ability to effectively combat future infections.
Second is the dysregulation of the system for both preventing and detecting genetically driven malignant transformation within cells and the consequent potential for vaccination to promote those transformations. Third, mRNA vaccination potentially disrupts intracellular communication carried out by exosomes, and induces cells taking up spike glycoprotein mRNA to produce high levels of spike-glycoprotein carrying exosomes, with potentially serious inflammatory consequences. Should any of these potentials be fully realized, the impact on billions of people around the world could be enormous and could contribute to both the short-term and long-term disease burden our health care system faces.”

Did you read the paper, analyze the results and methods, and agree with the science, or did you simply forward a paper that happens to support your beliefs?

@all Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations: The role of G-quadruplexes, exosomes, and MicroRNAs https://archief.bpoc2020.nl/archief/wetenschap/vaxarticle.pdf Conclusion: “There has been an unwavering message about the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccinations against SARS-CoV-2 from the public health apparatus in the US and around the globe. The efficacy is increasingly in doubt, as shown in a […]

Did you read the paper, analyze the results and methods, and agree with the science, or did you simply forward a paper that happens to support your beliefs?

I read the paper and I’m always looking for info to get wiser on the pro’s and con’s of these vaccines.
How irrational would it be that the pro-vaxxers now look the other way in case of side effects that were before unknown. The more so now that billions of these vaccines are injected.
I’m sure you will have read in the conclusion that:

“In the end, billions of lives are potentially at risk, given the large number of individuals injected with the SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines and the broad range of adverse outcomes we have described.”

Aren’t you more then happy that now some of us take the time to investigate and assist you, David?

Righto. Diggity dang. The shot made one of my arms fall off. So, there is that.

I am very grateful for your assistance. Personally, I didn’t think that the world needed another person spreading half-baked theories, masquerading and a ‘review, but you have taught me that I was wrong.
As for the paper, yes, I did read it (I am a science fiction fan) a few weeks ago. I’m not holding my breath for you to ‘get wiser on the pro’s and con’s of these vaccines’, considering that you have yet to show any ability to learn (https://respectfulinsolence.com/2022/05/02/scientific-review-articles-as-disinformation/, https://forbetterscience.com/2022/04/20/elsevier-pandemic-profiteering-again/, https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/does-mccullough-s-paper-really-establish-a-mechanistic-framework-for-mrna-vaccine-harm).

I am also intrigued by this concept that you have of ‘pro-vaxxers’, ignoring the possible side effects. I have read dozens of papers by serious groups (as well as a few by people like our friends here) detailing the actual side effects detected. It’s not the side effects that we ignore, but rather the side show (put on by a number of clowns). Do you see the difference?

David, don’t mistake lucas for someone who is looking for an honest debate: he’s a liar and crank, completely unqualified in, well, everything, from history to politics, with a long list of fake careers and stories of fictional friends and family members who have suffered from: vaccines, political oppression, false imprisonment, and more. He’s also a huge conspiracy monger predicting gloom, doom, because of something he never really states. Just a generally awful person.

There’s not any reason to pay attention to the article he posted 5/2/2022. The lead author is a known crank MIT computer scientist (no expertise or training in chemistry, toxicology, or biological sciences) with a long history of blaming vaccines, GMOs. She claimed glyphosate causes autism because (she claimed) the increase in autism rates was correlated with the increase of sales of glyphosate. (Look up the meaning of correlation lucas: we could talk about it here but nobody would be with you to help with the big words). She originally pushed the idea that covid 19 was due to the use of biofuels (ethanol in particular).

It isn’t a surprise that lucas, when he finally tried to post something, posts crap that is at the bottom of the barrel. That’s where he lives.

@David

“I am very grateful for your assistance.”

De nada.

I am also intrigued by this concept that you have of ‘pro-vaxxers’, ignoring the possible side effects.

The thought had occured. Say it ain’t so.

I have read dozens of papers by serious groups (as well as a few by people like our friends here) detailing the actual side effects detected. It’s not the side effects that we ignore, but rather the side show (put on by a number of clowns). Do you see the difference?

Ignore? You simply deny them.

Considering your post, I’m not surprised that you didn’t read (or understand?) mine.
I’ve seen that you have a problem differentiating what is known from what is speculated. For example, this paper is (almost) pure speculation, with just enough ‘facts’ sprinkled in to provide a veneer of competence or expertise. I would expect more support for a hypothesis from a 10th grader. As a person so intent on proving that your belief in the lethality of these vaccines, I would hope that you would to. But I am not naive to believe that something as inconsequential as ‘data’ would stand in your way.

BTW: We do know many of the vaccines side effects, as well as the range of occurrence.

@David

“I am very grateful for your assistance.”

De nada.

I am also intrigued by this concept that you have of ‘pro-vaxxers’, ignoring the possible side effects.

The thought had occured.

I have read dozens of papers by serious groups (as well as a few by people like our friends here) detailing the actual side effects detected. It’s not the side effects that we ignore, but rather the side show (put on by a number of clowns). Do you see the difference?

Let’s stop the show indeed.

anarmyofone

commented on What do Tucker Carlson, testicular tanning, and fascism have in common?

In response to Lucas:

@all Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations: The role of G-quadruplexes, exosomes, and MicroRNAs https://archief.bpoc2020.nl/archief/wetenschap/vaxarticle.pdf Conclusion: “There has been an unwavering message about the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccinations against SARS-CoV-2 from the public health apparatus in the US and around the globe. The efficacy is increasingly in doubt, as shown in a […]

Righto. Diggity dang. The shot made one of my arms fall off. So, there is that.

Was that one included in the 1295 adverse events of the Pfizer documents?

@ldw56old

“David, don’t mistake lucas for someone who is looking for an honest debate: he’s a liar and crank, completely unqualified in, well, everything, from history to politics, with a long list of fake careers and stories of fictional friends and family members who have suffered from: vaccines, political oppression, false imprisonment, and more. He’s also a huge conspiracy monger predicting gloom, doom, because of something he never really states. Just a generally awful person.”

Oh yes David, please please! Be careful with this demon, woe.
I never said that family members suffered from vaccines. You make that up. A good acquintance of mine had the double pulmonary embolism after vaccination; the others are people that happen to tell me so in the area I live. Meanwhile add another person to the list: a woman with a stroke, inflammation, reactive rheumatoid artritus; these are the words of a 35 year old (or so) dietiste that I know, she said this about her mother. Don’t blame me please.
Political oppression and false imprisonment in Russia? For sure, unfortunately it returned from old Soviet times. The same happened with some people – friends as well – in concentration camps during Nazism; meanwhile these survivers have all passed away. Nevertheless very true.
Friends are threatened with impisonment after being accused of extremism? Yes; you make up family, not what I said. I don’t have family in Russia. Perhaps you talk to the Russian Orthodox Church, cause that is where this evil comes from this time, I’m almost sure. Ask this lovely church about the reasons; it’s the same reason the Catholic Church had.
Doom and gloom? Of course, decades of living beyond your means and interest to practical 0% lead to this; as have in history. Now with the current and wind against. Before the pandemic in 2019 I predicted mega inflation in the foreseeable future. And what do we have? Very very high inflation, almost in mega territory. And now the pandemic or Russia is to blame? Our lying political jokers.
Other predictions about the future are not mine. They are from an absolute source. That’s why I can tell you that, unlike what F68.10 says, the UN will keep in place, as it has a task to complete: the break down of this centuries old institute I mentioned several times. Right after chaos begins for all of us. I would worry if I were you, cause at the end of this chaotic period, survival depends on who you are. Now we wait for a specific exclamation by our leaders (yes, including Russia) to tell us everything is fine and peaceful. Immediatly afterwards this circus will begin. I might state this, but with your attitude it seems not spent on you (arrogance in the way). If you think it’s not, I might assist you to reach the same conclusion.
And whether or not I tell you, it will happen anyway. Don’t blame me as a messenger.

“There’s not any reason to pay attention to the article he posted 5/2/2022. The lead author is a known crank MIT computer scientist (no expertise or training in chemistry, toxicology, or biological sciences) with a long history of blaming vaccines, GMOs. She claimed glyphosate causes autism because (she claimed) the increase in autism rates was correlated with the increase of sales of glyphosate. (Look up the meaning of correlation lucas: we could talk about it here but nobody would be with you to help with the big words). She originally pushed the idea that covid 19 was due to the use of biofuels (ethanol in particular).”

Why do you guys always get so angry when you get confronted with some material that goes against your belief? Always this hate and ad hominen. Have you heard the absurd claims people like Isaac Newton made? Or Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould? So, dismiss them too?
You might just as well argue the content. And tell me, what do you as a mathematician know about chemistry, toxicology or biological sciences?
Not that this vaccination business interest me so much.

“It isn’t a surprise that lucas, when he finally tried to post something, posts crap that is at the bottom of the barrel. That’s where he lives.”

So we heard several times. Time to tell us where you live.

“Why do you guys always get so angry when you get confronted with some material that goes against your belief?”

Not belief, you ignorant fool, the science. I get that you don’t have any understanding of data analysis or the biology here (I’m no biologist either), but your ignorance has, for some reason, led you to follow cranks who are intentionally dishonest (perhaps because that’s your basic nature). It’s driven you to manufacture large numbers of bad outcomes to vaccinations and push the conspiracy they are routinely covered up. In short — you are intentionally pushing lies that, for anyone stupid enough to believe you, could put them in danger. Perhaps if you hadn’t been been such a complete failure in your education (your posts show that’s the case) that wouldn’t be the case.

@David

“Considering your post, I’m not surprised that you didn’t read (or understand?) mine.
I’ve seen that you have a problem differentiating what is known from what is speculated. For example, this paper is (almost) pure speculation, with just enough ‘facts’ sprinkled in to provide a veneer of competence or expertise. I would expect more support for a hypothesis from a 10th grader. As a person so intent on proving that your belief in the lethality of these vaccines, I would hope that you would to. But I am not naive to believe that something as inconsequential as ‘data’ would stand in your way.”

The provided link was ment as a fyi. I’ve read it, not studied it. Calling it “pure speculation”? Nah.
Like I said before, I’m not really into discussing medicins: I don’t profit much from knowledge on the specific topic and besides, it costs more effort to study the material then it does a physician. Besiddes, a discussion is usually useless here. I know beforehand what the subjective, goal oriented, reply will be. Whether it’s a discussion on the D-Dimer (a proxy for ongoing thrombosis) that simply went silent or these processed official data bringing to light the miscategorization of vaccine deaths. Here it’s useless.
Have you studied the New Zealand data? These seem to show a direct link between all cause death and the vaccine rollout, in a population with very low incidence of covid due to its isolation strategy.

“BTW: We do know many of the vaccines side effects, as well as the range of occurrence.”

The way we study vaccines is flawed, we focus at their effect on the specific virus and not it’s overall effect on health and all cause mortality.

So you didn’t study it, but still stand behind it. You are a true man of science…
If you can’t be bothered to study the papers you post, how do you want anyone to take your arguments seriously?

Considering your proven expertise in vaccinology, how would you conduct a vaccine trial?

@ldw56old

“Not belief, you ignorant fool, the science. I get that you don’t have any understanding of data analysis or the biology here (I’m no biologist either),”

Like I wrote, I’m not much interested in the ins and outs of this study. Others here might be, or should be, whatever. That’s why I posted it.
You talk about science and biology. It is wise to have at least a basic knowledge of living organisms. The processes involved should tell you that life as such can not have arisen by chance – a crucial conclusion.
Did you know that the theory of abiogenesis and even evolution, have nothing in common with science?

“but your ignorance has, for some reason, led you to follow cranks who are intentionally dishonest (perhaps because that’s your basic nature).”

It’s not so smart to “follow” people.

“It’s driven you to manufacture large numbers of bad outcomes to vaccinations and push the conspiracy they are routinely covered up. In short — you are intentionally pushing lies that, for anyone stupid enough to believe you, could put them in danger.”

I have never been active telling people to get or to not get vaccinated. Where have you read that? Never ever manufactured bad outcomes (where did you find these outcomes??), just made an analyses for myself once, based on data from the UK.
It’s just my provisional conclusion that the mRNA vaccines are certainly not as safe as its promoters want you to believe. I’m not denying that not being vaccinated can be dangerous as well, dependent on age, virus variant, etc.

“Perhaps if you hadn’t been been such a complete failure in your education (your posts show that’s the case) that wouldn’t be the case.”

Feel free to draw your own conclusions. And realise that education isn’t even of much importance. Making the right choices can be life saving though.

@All

“Thus, once again, I’m looking for evidence of opinions from Tucker which are demonstrably “white supremacist” or “white nationalist.”

Typical leftist behaviour to blame, blame, blame. Be it groundless or not, who cares? Do you see the similarity with leftists nazism?
Much more important is that these blind fools here just don’t realise that it’s their leftist governments that are getting them in unprecedented trouble. And that’s the next thing these leftists are good at: ignoring. Until the laughter perishes.
Another common factor is hate. The fools even hate themselves.
Best would be to send them back to the planet they came from. A world without hate is so much better.

@David

“So you didn’t study it, but still stand behind it. You are a true man of science…
If you can’t be bothered to study the papers you post, how do you want anyone to take your arguments seriously?
Considering your proven expertise in vaccinology, how would you conduct a vaccine trial?”

David, suppose I posted some similar paper, but much in favour of these genetic vaccines. Would you have given a similar reply?
Let me answer the question for you: you would not.
But now that I draw your attention to some potentially disturbing elements of these vaccines, you seem annoyed. Isn’t this strange? As if plainly defending these vaccines is your preconceived goal that will not tolerate interference. You give the impression to be rather subjective, David. I do hope in your career (as a physician?) you will be less biased.

Here’s another article that might not interest you: “Increased emergency cardiovascular events among under-40 population in Israel during vaccine rollout and third COVID-19 wave”; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z
You know David, I’m not so in love with these vaccines with regard to the groups in society that hardly need it, if at all; not that I give advice to anyone on vaccines, but were I a doctor, I wouldn’t sleep so well if, because of my advice, I’d kill or wound some of my patients that should have been just fine without it. How about you?

I do not necessarily stand behind that study. I stand behind my own work, others defend themselves.

How I would conduct a vaccine trial? Some citation right from the worldwise web: “Besides slaughtering over 1,000 people in under a month, trials also produced hundreds of potentially fatal side effects, created fertility issues, and were only 12-15 per cent effective at preventing infection overall and subsequently dropped to less than 1 per cent — despite health officials claiming it would be over 90 per cent effective.” (Statements based on the Pfizer documents)
If apparently Pfizer doesn’t even know how to conduct a vaccine trial – if it does I have some serious questions I’d like to ask their scientists – why would you ask me?

Oh and I never asked to take my arguments seriously regarding that particular article; simply cause I didn’t make any. Do with it you want, apparently that’s not much.

David, I repeatedly said I’m not really here to discuss vaccines. There is a more important topic that need our attention. Compared to covid that have killed about 30 mln (bad enough I agree), I prefer to talk about a bigger picture that looks miserably bad for most of us.

I’m not bothered at all by a discussion of the many problems with vaccines, nor am I ignorant of them. But how can we have a discussion, if you don’t read the papers you cite as a basis for your arguments? Interesting that we’re not even dealing with your argument, just your amateurish research.

I understand that you see your self as a ‘big picture’ person, and that actual evidence is ‘beneath you’. But if you don’t actually understand the evidence that forms the basis of your policies, the rest is just a lot of ‘hot air’.

But I thank you for giving me permission to ignore your further ‘work’. I agree that there is no reason to ask you for your thoughts, and I will bother you no more.

“Besides slaughtering over 1,000 people in under a month, trials also produced hundreds of potentially fatal side effects, created fertility issues, and were only 12-15 per cent effective at preventing infection overall and subsequently dropped to less than 1 per cent — despite health officials claiming it would be over 90 per cent effective.” (Statements based on the Pfizer documents)

Statements which are blatantly false, made by people who intentionally lied about what was in the Pfizer documents, you insufferably dishonest POS.

Even Alex Berenson says that these documents don’t say what Lucas says, that someone else says. Why are you surprised that the best that Lucas can get is ‘Some citation right from the ‘worldwise web’? Who knew that Lucas gets his scientific news from ‘thecountersignal.com’?

Agreed David, those comments were debunked as soon as they were made. But being outrageously dishonest is lucas’ stock in trade (he’s also a big conspiracy monger, as you probably noticed).

These things are all the more amusing when you realize that he has claimed at various times: an economist, a developer, to be good at data analysis. It’s worse because he’s invented numerous friends and acquaintances who have been “seriously damaged” by vaccines, with others who were “tortured in russian prisons”. No lie too small or too big for lucas.

How I would conduct a vaccine trial? Some citation right from the worldwise web: “Besides slaughtering over 1,000 people….

It took nearly five months for this one to rise from the dead? MTG needs to up her game.

Here’s another article that might not interest you: “Increased emergency cardiovascular events among under-40 population in Israel during vaccine rollout and third COVID-19 wave”

Did you even bother to glance at this? It’s all but sporting an Expression of Concern:

05 May 2022 Editor’s Note: Readers are alerted that the conclusions of this article are subject to criticisms that are being considered by the Editors. A further editorial response will follow once all parties have been given an opportunity to respond in full.”

In the meantime, one might as well cut to the chase.

suppose I posted some similar paper, but much in favour of these genetic vaccines

Can’t win for losing.

@David

“I’m not bothered at all by a discussion of the many problems with vaccines, nor am I ignorant of them. But how can we have a discussion, if you don’t read the papers you cite as a basis for your arguments? Interesting that we’re not even dealing with your argument, just your amateurish research.”

It wasn’t even my ‘research’. I hardly invest time in the subject; with excess mortality as a bit of an exception.
Tell me why does a specialist like you study the very same “amateurish research” but blame me for just reading it?

“I understand that you see your self as a ‘big picture’ person, and that actual evidence is ‘beneath you’. But if you don’t actually understand the evidence that forms the basis of your policies, the rest is just a lot of ‘hot air’.
But I thank you for giving me permission to ignore your further ‘work’. I agree that there is no reason to ask you for your thoughts, and I will bother you no more.”

How I see myself is not that relevant. We’re only humans. Nevertheless, for an investor it is essential to know what’s going on, what to expect. It’s no arrogance to say that we have been right about this pandemic before it ‘arrived’, the way it would be hyped, about hyperinflation and the crashing up of markets, more recent on war and chaos. We are definately living in turbulent times and it will get worse, no doubt.
However, what I ment in this post was something far bigger then what we’ve seen thusfar and it is not my prediction. But honestly, it’s a bit of a tyring repetition and I’m sure many here agree. Besides, no one is interested in the subject. I’ve “seen too many science fiction movies”, until facts and circumstances speak for themselves somewhat later.
Some time ago this is what F68.10 had to say: “The world is splitting apart. The UN will end. That “multipolarity”, not of the good kind, will end up being a Cold War for natural ressources.”
Although this does seem logic indeed, from the source I read I can tell that the UN will not end yet and certainly not like F68.10 assumes it will. Before it is ended, it is needed for a specific task and it will even get some real ‘teeth’ to execute it. A centuries old institute, a worldwide conglomerate if you will, shall be destroyed by it, simultaneously over the world. As this will be done in a coordinated action, you would expect that nations seem to have ended their conflicts and may have reached some kind of agreement. No matter the inducement, when you hear a specific exclamation from our leaders that all is now peaceful, be sure that this will be the start of the mentioned destruction and the beginning of a very chaotic period. At the end of that period the UN will indeed disappear, together with literally all political entities. Based on personal choices, most humans will disappear as well. And don’t blame me, without the governments you have chosen this would all never happen. I’m just bringing it to your attention.

You just don’t get it – I didn’t ‘blame; you for reading this paper. I questioned you for citing it to support your argument. Do you see the difference? Probably not.

ldw56old

““Besides slaughtering over 1,000 people in under a month, trials also produced hundreds of potentially fatal side effects, created fertility issues, and were only 12-15 per cent effective at preventing infection overall and subsequently dropped to less than 1 per cent — despite health officials claiming it would be over 90 per cent effective.” (Statements based on the Pfizer documents)
Statements which are blatantly false, made by people who intentionally lied about what was in the Pfizer documents, you insufferably dishonest POS.”

Meanwhile we know that what you don’t like is all a blatant lie.
But like I said, it was just a citation. I’m personally not denying or confirming.

“I’m personally not denying or confirming.”

Perfect response from an asshole like you. Toss out things that are so blatantly false there’s no defense, then claim that you’re “just getting it out”.

We get that you’re a dishonest broker who has zero interest in an informed discussion. There’s no need for you to continue to demonstrate that.

“Meanwhile we know that what you don’t like is all a blatant lie.”

Actually, people who understand data and the report say the same thing. It’s clowns like you who don’t have any understanding of the work, or interest in developing an understanding, who toss poo with the gleeful abandon you do.

@David

“Even Alex Berenson says that these documents don’t say what Lucas says, that someone else says. Why are you surprised that the best that Lucas can get is ‘Some citation right from the ‘worldwise web’? Who knew that Lucas gets his scientific news from ‘thecountersignal.com’?”

Hehe no, I’m not much interested; it is just a miserable politically motivated pot of shit. Disgusting and no euro to earn here. You keep it!

But it’s your citation! You brought it up – why would I want it?
Why do you keep evading the statements you make? If you don’t want it – don’t say it in the first place.

I have an idea – you could start by only make statements that you believe in, that are supported up by research (yours or someone else). Or just be honest and label your posts ‘satire’…

@ldw56old

“Agreed David, those comments were debunked as soon as they were made. But being outrageously dishonest is lucas’ stock in trade (he’s also a big conspiracy monger, as you probably noticed).”

Correct about the conspiracy part for sure. And for the slow of understanding: be sure this will become more then clear to you as well. Shall we bet that from some point you won’t believe that what you see happening before your own eyes is just another coincidence?

“These things are all the more amusing when you realize that he has claimed at various times: an economist, a developer, to be good at data analysis. It’s worse because he’s invented numerous friends and acquaintances who have been “seriously damaged” by vaccines, with others who were “tortured in russian prisons”. No lie too small or too big for lucas.”

Never qualified myself on data analysis as far as I know; I simply do it, and a lot too. And for sure there are ‘better’ economists then I am; problem is most lack intuition. You want to discuss economics with me?
Or design, or cad (SW), fine with me. Sorry for the arrogance, but I’m a good designer, painter and artist.

All I said about my friends in both countries at war, is correct. Several of these people came over to visit us in the 90’s when they finally gained freedom and it was fun to arrange cars for them for their way home. I like these people, but a problem was that they have a hard time just doing what you tell them to, as if they know our rules. And none of them could drive a car the way it should be done.
I’m just wandering why also none of them thusfar have left Ukraine to stay in paradise here (as long as it lasts that is). It’s so easy now.
I could tell you a lot about business we’ve done with some Ukrainian companies, but you would deny it all.
Indeed some are tortured during interrogation and in prison, that’s one of the reasons I’d like the Russians to stay away from the Ukraine. Since the annexation of Crimea it’s the same problem there. I answered some questions of F68.10 on this, but he hasn’t replied. I guess ‘respectfulinsolence.com’ could use a better web developer.

No, only one friend (a woman, age 65 I guess) got the pulmonary embolism after vaccination; when will you ever listen? The rest comes from neighbours or from people that just happen to tell me their story. I tell them here. And you don’t like them. And thus I’m a liar. Like I said, some funny little guy you are.
I haven’t told you that meanwhile some good acquaintances of mine have died and if I told you what was wrong with them, I’m sure it would raise questions in your mind as well. Too early to say if it has anything to do with the vaccines though. But suspicious it is for sure.

“Never qualified myself on data analysis as far as I know; I simply do it, and a lot too. ”

Bullshit. Same for your designer claim, and your claim of having friends harmed by a variety of things. You’ve lied so often, on so many topics, that there is zero reason to believe you on anything anywhere.

@David

“You just don’t get it – I didn’t ‘blame; you for reading this paper. I questioned you for citing it to support your argument. Do you see the difference? Probably not.”

Of course you were going to say this.
You needn’t question me as I did not cite it to support any argument. Just ment as a fyi. You might have said thanks but you chose not to.
In one aspect however you seem to differ from most here; you mentioned “the many problems with vaccines” that you apparently seem to recognize. It is bloody irritating that these Orac shitheads here label the mRNA vaccines as kind of miraculously safe, which is obviously nonsense.
I did invite some here to get in contact with the vaccine victims, or their relatives, that I met in my area. Instead these suckers simply deny. Then there was the report of these statisticians I asked them to refute on the content, or the study of this German scientist, the research from new Zealand and some more that all seem to lead to the same conclusion, which is exactly like you described it as “the many problems with vaccines”. Not interested.
So you need not wonder why I’m not in the mood to “have a discussion” on vaccines anymore here. It’s useless, a waste of energy.

I know that some people have a problem holding two ideas in their mind at the same time, so I will keep it so simple that even you can understand: the vaccines are both miraculously safe – and have side effects. See how that works?

@Narad

“Here’s another article that might not interest you: “Increased emergency cardiovascular events among under-40 population in Israel during vaccine rollout and third COVID-19 wave”
Did you even bother to glance at this? It’s all but sporting an Expression of Concern:”

Yes, I read the article and I’m aware of the Editor’s Note. Noteworthy nonetheless.

Yes, I read the article and I’m aware of the Editor’s Note. Noteworthy nonetheless.

Did you read the PPPR?

@ldw56old

“”I’m personally not denying or confirming.”
Perfect response from an asshole like you. Toss out things that are so blatantly false there’s no defense, then claim that you’re “just getting it out”.
We get that you’re a dishonest broker who has zero interest in an informed discussion. There’s no need for you to continue to demonstrate that.”

Like I said it’s from the “Worldwise web”.
An informed discussion with you has turned out to be impossible. You’re definately not here on a fact finding mission on vaccines, just like the other Orac morons. Real shame.

@David

“But it’s your citation! You brought it up – why would I want it?
Why do you keep evading the statements you make? If you don’t want it – don’t say it in the first place.
I have an idea – you could start by only make statements that you believe in, that are supported up by research (yours or someone else). Or just be honest and label your posts ‘satire’…”

A bit of satire and a bit of annoyance for sure.
I classified you in the wrong camp perhaps. Can happen in this arena of insincerity.

ldw56old

““Never qualified myself on data analysis as far as I know; I simply do it, and a lot too. ”
Bullshit. Same for your designer claim, and your claim of having friends harmed by a variety of things. You’ve lied so often, on so many topics, that there is zero reason to believe you on anything anywhere.”

Heck, I ment to say I didn’t give myself a qualification on good or bad. Not that I’m not a data analyst.
And clear and true, I am a designer as well, a good one in fact. Test me.

At least F68.10 asked me some additional questions about these Russian friends. I would have done the same if I wanted to find out. I mentioned before somewhere I was in Russia in 1993; what do you think I did there, just having holidays?
Like I said, now I hope that my Ukrainian friends won’t face a similar situation as in the Crimea.

What you need to know is that we are not all the same, ldw56old. And that someone older has seen and done more then when you just finished school. You should also consider the fact that the more strange a story is, the bigger the chance that it is a true.
When I told you that a former prominent politician from the Ukraine visited me for a week or so to look for business opportunities in my country, would you consider this true? Suppose I told you we contacted DAF Trucks and that this company indeed showed interest in the idea of starting a production facility in a special tax free zone in the Ukraine, true or nonsense? And suppose we discussed a huge incinerator in the Ukraine, realised by the Dutch ? Suppose I told you that this politician was the uncle of one of my friends there? What if I told you that this friend was later on murdered because of some money of a car he bought in my country and sold in his, leaving a wife and young son behind? Would you believe that this friend had neurological problems due to some kind of brain washing the Ukraine military did to him?
Ask yourself, would your imagination really come up with such a story? Well mine would not. And I have a problem to believe that yours would.

As a repetition, would your imagination tell you that the UN, immediatly after our politicians reassure us peace, will destroy a centuries old institute all around the globe? And that this will be the start of unprecedented chaos? Astonishing, such imagination.
Think ldw56old, just think.

@David

“I know that some people have a problem holding two ideas in their mind at the same time, so I will keep it so simple that even you can understand: the vaccines are both miraculously safe – and have side effects. See how that works?”

Spare me the KISS, you don’t even follow what you say yourself. The only thing I ‘see’ is some ‘miraculous side effects’.
Only as a politician you make sense.

Why do you feel a need to misquote me? Is it too hard for you to respond to my comment?

Narad

“Did you read the PPPR?”

Nyet.

“While not establishing causal relationships, the fndings raise concerns regarding vaccine-induced undetected severe cardiovascular side-efects and underscore the already established causal relationship between vaccines and myocarditis, a frequent cause of unexpected cardiac arrest in young individuals.
Surveillance of potential vaccine side-efects and COVID-19 outcomes should incorporate EMS and other health data to identify public health trends (e.g., increased in EMS calls), and promptly investigate potential underlying causes.”

The ‘joke’ is that if this analysys cannot accomplish causality, and in fact no design can do this, the vaccine trials cannot show causality between vaccination and not getting covid, severe covid or dying of it. Right. Plus these are no trials.
Some remarks; the impact of vaccination on cardiovascular disorders would be easier to investigate if you know on a patient level who received the jab at what moment and when an incident occured. You evaluate this versus common chances in a Bayesian analysys. See this link (use a translate program) as some sort of example: https://lnkd.in/eiMnHnrv

In the end every chance should be connected to characteristics that can influence a chance. Discovering conditional chances is in principle where research is about. Which means that the inclusion and exclusion criteria of patients in studies is most important to monitor.

Anyway, the unspoken is spoken. Insurance companies getting a hard time?

See this link (use a translate program) as some sort of example

“Some sort,” indeed. You apparently haven’t internalized the epigram.

@David

“Why do you feel a need to misquote me? Is it too hard for you to respond to my comment?”

Don’t you need to see a psychologist?

Why? Do you think that a mental health professional can diagnose the reason for your lack of capability to have a discussion?

@MedicalYeti

““Correction: Yes, I’m the same coward as Russian friends of mine that are imprisoned for 6 or 7 years without an honest trial.” After all the shit you spouted, if you dare play the victim card, provide evidence of who they are, under what jurisdiction are they allegedly tortured, the claims authorities brought […]
I had a theory that some of the BS we were seeing on here was Russian disinfo assholes coming here to hone their crap before unleashing it on the less sophisticated. I’m more convinced than ever.”

I answered F68.10’s questions; these are my friends, I didn’t say I know them all.
And yes, I’m the same coward; at least I hope I will be, as at some point the relative tranquil situation will change in Europe too. Just like in the US for that matter. Not for you that is, but you may probably not even survive the end of the aforementioned chaotic period.

Really thought it was Russian disinfo? What was it before the war? Vaccine disinfo? What’s the connection between the two?
Some weird conclusions you draw.

@ldw56

“lucas isn’t smart enough to be useful for disinformation”

In the end telling lies is never smart.

“the safer assumption is that the crap spewed in lucas’ posts are the conspiracies (about covid vaccines harming and killing people)”

Covid vaccines harming and killing people I would not call a conspiracy. Just like that little duck in your bathtub is no conspiracy.

“and pure fantasies (impending world disaster,”

You will watch it, I have no doubt. Not a fantasy at all and I’m not the source. The source is absolute.

“acquaintances allegedly held and tortured in russia,”

Reading carefully is still one of your problems; you could well be some journalist: never accurate. I’ve never said that acquaintances were tortured in Russia. In Nazi concentration camps I did have acquaintances that were tortured; for the same reason as is happening again with my friends in Russia.

“and demonstrations of lack of education (nazism and fascism being left wing philosophies)”

You should have said “a lack of leftist education”. You guys are taught a lot of rubbish. Life threatening rubbish in some ways even. And you swallowed it because some professor told you so and because it is generally accepted thinking; you’re a fool, I’m sorry to say it.
I gave proof that Nazism is an ultra left phenomenon. I’m still waiting for your educated substantiation on the opposite. And this goes for anyone else here that agrees with ldw56old.

“from someone who wants to feel important but doesn’t have anything to offer.”

With lots of financial resources I get that feeling already from so many empty heads. What makes you think I need you too?

“ Covid vaccines harming and killing people I would not call a conspiracy. ”

Correct, my mistake. It’s a bald faced lie with not a lick of support. Just more BS from dirtbags like you.

And no, you’ve provided no proof that nazis were on the left of the political spectrum, because there is none.

But as others have said, you’re just a despicable person. It isn’t clear what your end game is, but it sure as hell isn’t being an honest broker who has any interest in learning anything.

So keep on lying about your experiences and abilities. It seems you’ve been doing it for so long you probably believe them. Nobody else does.

Reading carefully is still one of your problems

Oh, the irony. Reading carefully, once one gets past the, ah, unique quoting affectation, reveals that you are fond of slapping together clauses and sentences in some sort of attempt to make them seem related when nothing of the sort is happening, e.g., “[T]hese are my friends, I didn’t say I know them all.”

You also seem to feel the need to pad out your comments with aimless irrelevancies, such as your precognition:

And yes, I’m the same coward; at least I hope I will be, as at some point the relative tranquil situation will change in Europe too. Just like in the US for that matter. Not for you that is, but you may probably not even survive the end of the aforementioned chaotic period.

This is not the sort of passage that would be found in Foreign Affairs, Carnac.

And then, naturally, you have to make an ass of yourself:

It is bloody irritating that these Orac shitheads here label the mRNA vaccines as kind of miraculously safe, which is obviously nonsense.

Gee, where are we “Orac shitheads” supposed to be?

You’re definately not here on a fact finding mission on vaccines, just like the other Orac morons.

And… You have completed the Ouroboros of Irony. You toss out papers and then whine when asked to defend them and also refuse to cotton so much as read contrary material that is directly on point.

You are a waste of electrons.

@David

““Why do you feel a need to misquote me? Is it too hard for you to respond to my comment?” Don’t you need to see a psychologist?
Why? Do you think that a mental health professional can diagnose the reason for your lack of capability to have a discussion?”

That partly depends on your own capability.
Tell me, for what reason would a mental health professional feel the need to disparage? Not once or twice, as a habit even?

Lucas – what is your point?
If you want to respond, please. If you want to continue to deflect, I’m out.

@David

“Lucas – what is your point?

If you want to respond, please. If you want to continue to deflect, I’m out.”

Well I’m out if someone suggests to be in for an objective discussion while he’s not. Just read your own phrases:

“your lack of capability to have a discussion”

“so I will keep it so simple that even you can understand”

“Why are you surprised that the best that Lucas can get is..”

“Considering your proven expertise in vaccinology..”

“I’ve seen that you have a problem..”

Is it your intention to denigrate? Wanna feel superior? Is it group pressure?

Reflecting your problem seems dubious behaviour from a mental health professional.

No problem, Goodbye

I take responsibility – I probably should have known that trying to discuss the paper you cited was a losing battle.

@David,

For what reason don’t you ever answer the questions asked?

“trying to discuss the paper you cited was a losing battle”

Did you miss my post of May 11, 2022 at 5:30 pm?
Now tell me where can I find your substantial comments?
Apparently you are not here to discuss any of such papers.

Here is another interesting read for you (and others interested in vaccine related side effects):
-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination can elicit a CD8 T-cell dominant hepatitis.
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35461912/
– Liver injury following SARS-CoV-2 vaccination: A multicenter case series
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8324396/
– Autoimmune Hepatitis-Like Syndrome Following COVID-19 Vaccination: A Systematic Review of the Literature
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9052185/

I’m a Pro-Vaxxer, how about you?

We have all heard of the recent outbreak of monkeypox, I’m sure.
On Wednesday, the CDC confirmed a case of monkeypox in a Massachusetts man who had recently traveled to Canada.
It wasn’t the first time the US has seen a case of monkeypox, a virus related to smallpox that causes flu-like symptoms and a rash, and can sometimes be deadly. Occasionally, public health authorities identify single cases in people recently returned from West or Central Africa, where the disease is more common.
What’s different — and concerning — about this Massachusetts case is that it’s occurring as clusters of monkeypox infections that are popping up in other countries where the virus is also rare.
Since early May, the UK Health Security Agency has detected a total of 9 cases of the infection, and Portugal and Spain have reported 14 and 23 suspected cases, respectively. (The numbers are changing rapidly; a University of Oxford epidemiologist tweeted a link to a makeshift tracker where you can see the latest figures.) In The Netherlands, the country I live in, some cases of monkeypox have meanwhile been identified as well.

I am smallpox vaccinated, which seems to be advantegous with regards to monkeypox.
So, as you can see I AM CLEARLY A PRO-VAXXER.
How about you? If you are not vaccinated against smallpox, doesn’t that make you an anti-vaxxer by your own definition?

@Narad:

“Reading carefully is still one of your problems”
“Oh, the irony. Reading carefully, once one gets past the, ah, unique quoting affectation, reveals that you are fond of slapping together clauses and sentences in some sort of attempt to make them seem related when nothing of the sort is happening, e.g., “These are my friends, I didn’t say I know them all.”

Not slapping together causes at all.
Also this expression “friends” makes perfect sense if you had actually read. F68.10 tried to frame me as a Putin supporter; as a reply I happened to tell him what this criminal does to my friends in Russia and made it clear to think twice before saying such nonsense. So F68.10, annoyed as he was about the fact that I would now suddenly have these friends in Russia, came up with some check questions and I answered them truthfully. Then ldw56old started his usual cursing and accused me of being a liar.
According to the Freedictionary the defenition of a friend is:
1. A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
2. A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause.
3. One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement.
Except for the fact I don’t know all of these Russians in person, each one of the mentioned characteristics is applicable. So when I said that they are my friends, this was by no means a lie. I know what these people think, what is and what is not important to them. And in case I never met them before, when I do I’m more then welcome to visit them at their homes. Just like vice versa. These people even trust me with their possessions. Wouldn’t you call such people friends? If not, you don’t know what a friend is.

“You also seem to feel the need to pad out your comments with aimless irrelevancies, such as your precognition: “And yes, I’m the same coward; at least I hope I will be, as at some point the relative tranquil situation will change in Europe too. Just like in the US for that matter. Not for you that is, but you may probably not even survive the end of the aforementioned chaotic period.””

May I remind you that F68.10 used the word coward. Just like these Russians have shown, I think I’m not a coward; it’s just that I haven’t been able to prove it in that setting. But this moment will come, was all I mentioned. Is this relevant? It is in relation to what F68.10 called me. And it is in relation to what will happen in the not too distant future. And what this is, is exactly what I have been saying here constantly. So what’s irrelevant?

“And then, naturally, you have to make an ass of yourself: “It is bloody irritating that these Orac shitheads here label the mRNA vaccines as kind of miraculously safe, which is obviously nonsense. Gee, where are we “Orac shitheads” supposed to be?”

Truth smearing shitheads here at this forum indeed. And for what reason you reply with “we”? Did I say you were one?

“You toss out papers and then whine when asked to defend them and also refuse to so much as read contrary material that is directly on point.”

The subject is more relevant to you then it is for me. See it as a service to you. So a thank you for bringing the material to you would be more appreciated then all this whining about what you apparently don’t like to hear. What’s your interest in blindly defending vaccines anyway?

“You are a waste of electrons.”

A personal opinion is allowed. The future will determine if this applies to me, you or both. For sure it will become clear that most people are a ‘waste of electrons’. This because of the wrong choices in life; they are the ones that will not survive the end of the chaotic period that will begin with a so called solution for peace and stability. That’s the most relevant issue to me – as should be to you. Not some politicized treatment.

Want to respond to Orac? Here's your chance. Leave a reply! Just make sure that you've read the Comment Policy (link located in the main menu in the upper right hand corner of the page) first if you're new here!

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

%d bloggers like this: