One of the oldest antivax tropes is that vaccines some how “poison” you with “toxins,” thereby causing a whole host of health problems that antivaxxers blame on vaccines but whose causation is not supported by science. Indeed, when I first made a splash (sort of) debunking antivax misinformation in 2005, I was addressing Robert F. Kennedy Jr.‘s conspiracy theory that the mercury in the thimerosal preservative used in a number of routine childhood vaccines up until around 2001 or so was the cause of an “epidemic” of autism. Around that same time, chelation therapy was a major topic of this blog, because “autism biomed” quacks used it to chelate the mercury from vaccines that they blamed for autism; it was a long-failed hypothesis, but that didn’t stop the quacks. Indeed, “detoxification” of “toxins” (from vaccines) was and remains a key pillar of “autism biomed” quackery, regardless of whether the vaccines contained thimerosal or not. (To these quacks, they’re all equally nasty.) So it was with some interest that I saw bubbling up from antivax social media about a new way of “detoxing” the spike protein from COVID-19 vaccines to which antivaxxers attribute all the horrible things they blame on these vaccines. The method? Using nattokinase to digest the spike protein that supposedly hangs around after vaccination against COVID-19 to do all sorts of nefarious things.
I noticed nattokinase showing up on antivax Substacks, such as that of Dr. Paul “we want them infected” Alexander, in a post with one of his frantic long-winded titles SPIKE Protein Detoxifier: COVID gene injection SPIKE Recovery may help manage LONG COVID, the amount of spike protein in your body & inhibit effects & blood vessel blockage, supporting T-cell activity. Witness how this quack portrays the “need” for a “detoxifier” if you’ve had a COVID-19 vaccine:
Spike protein (due to the COVID vaccine or virus) is becoming increasingly concerning and people are begging for solutions. They are scared and in many instances distraught as to the spike circulating within them. As a result, a spike detoxifier is needed. This detoxifier can potentially help manage the amount of spike protein in your body (especially spike induced by the Pfizer and Moderna gene platform).
Seeing a claim like this leads me to point out some things. First, the amount of spike protein that gets into the bloodstream as a result of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna is infinitesimally small, definitely smaller than the amount of spike protein one gets from an—oh, you know—actually infection with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. Second—and I know I’m repeating myself from above, but bear with me—antivaxxers have been recommending “detoxification” to treat “vaccine injury” or “vaccine toxicity” since long before I ever first took notice of the antivaccine movement which was well over two decades ago. Nattokinase, as you will see, is just the latest wrinkle in this old narrative.
Unsurprisingly, instead of blaming the virus for long COVID, Alexander blames—you guessed it!—the vaccine:
This is a particularly important consideration given the massive reporting of symptoms post recovery from virus infection or taking the COVID mRNA-DNA gene injection (Pfizer and Moderna). I am referring to what is called ‘LONG-COVID’ and you may have heard this term or similar. The advancing ‘maturing’ science is focusing on clarifying this condition yet it is clear just by looking around us in our own personal daily lives (ourselves, our family members, our friends, or our work colleagues as well as just strangers who shared their struggles), that this COVID gene injection or the virus leaves many with symptoms and often debilitating crippling one. This is no laughing matter and some (many) people are very damaged by the gene injection vaccine (as well as the virus).
How nice and “even-handed” of him to acknowledge that the virus might actually cause long COVID. Of course, he frames it by saying “some (many) people” were damaged by the “gene injection” vaccine “as well as the virus.” His readers know what he really means, namely that he’s claiming that the vaccine is the primary cause of what is being labeled “long COVID.” Lest you fail to get that message, he rapidly pivots to claim:
The reality is that the COVID gene injections (so called vaccines) induces the very toxic dangerous part of the COVID virus that causes severe and often fatal disease sequelae, this being the spike protein, as part of the immune response. The spike protein and especially the S1 sub-unit of the spike protein is highly pathological and is more than likely involved in the often crippling post-vaccination syndrome e.g. LONG COVID. The spike protein is devastatingly toxic (references here, here, here).
I can’t help but note that the first article uses a mouse model to study acute lung injury from COVID-19 involving artificially high doses of spike protein. The second article is by Stephanie Seneff, a naturopath, and Peter McCullough. (‘Nuff said.) The third article is about the incidence of acute allergic reactions to COVID-19 vaccines, and I note that pretty much all vaccines cause allergic reactions in a small percentage of people, making COVID vaccines nothing unique on that score. None of these articles, other than the mouse model, demonstrates that the spike protein is a “toxin” that causes long COVID, and even the mouse model is of limited utility in that the dose used (400 µg/kg) is huge compared to anything a vaccine could cause and arguably even more than infection can cause. Also, the recombinant spike protein was administered not intramuscularly or intravenously, but intratracheal, meaning that the investigators squirted saline containing it into the tracheas of the mice. Anyway, cherry picking and misrepresenting studies is how dishonest antivaxxers roll.
Let’s get to the “detox” though! Basically Alexander is pushing a “detox” formulation, a “spike detoxifier,” from another quack whom I had never heard of before, Dr. Jen VanDeWater, who’s a pharmacist selling something called Dr. Jen VanDeWater’s Spike Recovery Formula, which is billed as the “gold standard” in combatting “shedding” and fending off the “deadly spike protein”:
Apparently, this concoction contains selenium (supposedly to “combat inflammation”), nattokinase (to dissolve clots), dandelion root (to “support better liver function,” whatever that means), and black cumin seeds (to help “celluar repair”—sorry, but if you leave a typo/spelling error in your video selling quackery I am going to make fun of it). Apparently there is also green tea extract—because why not?—and Irish sea moss—again, because why not?—to “scavenge free radicals” and “rid the body of heavy metal residue,” respectively. Of course, I find it funny how antivaccine quacks are trying to find a way to link their old favorite “toxins,” namely “heavy metals,” to COVID-19 vaccine injury even though these vaccines do not contain appreciable heavy metals, but that never stopped quacks before.
What interested me was the nattokinase, though, as the other supplements are long-standing nostrums beloved of alternative medicine practitioners for a very long time. It’s not particularly interesting to me to seem them repurposed as COVID quackery. However, before I move on to nattokinase, I can’t help but note that, according to VanDeWater, even if you didn’t get vaccinated you still need her nostrums to keep you and your family safe. Against, what if you weren’t vaccinated? I’m not sure, but here you go:
According to Alexander:
Recent literature has shown nattokinase to be effective in degrading the spike protein associated with COVID-19 [3]. It has long been known to reduce the risk of clot formation and improve circulation [3].
Before I ask what nattokinase is even supposed to do, the first thing I always wonder is how a protein—an enzyme—can work when taken orally. In general, proteins are rapidly broken down in the stomach and proximal small intestine by a number of very efficient enzymes that chew up the peptide chain. It is true that there are a few exceptions, but they tend to be digestive enzymes, which can survive in the harsh chemical environment of the stomach and enzymatic environment of the small intestine. Think pancreatic enzymes, whose function can indeed be replaced by oral supplementation because these enzymes are among the enzymes that work in digestion. Nattokinase does not appear to be one of these enzymes. So what is it?
It turns out that nattokinase is an enzyme used to ferment soy bean products that have long been a dietary staple in Japan. It also turns out that it’s a popular supplement, and if you do a Google search for just “nattokinase” a lot of the results will be supplement sellers promoting it for its various claimed health benefits. In brief, nattokinase is extracelluar enzyme secreted by the bacterium Bacillus subtilis, used to ferment boiled or steamed soybeans resulting in a preparation called nattō. The Memorial Sloan-Kettering website notes:
Nattokinase is also available as a supplement and is most known for its effects on prevention and treatment of clots and to improve blood circulation.
And:
Nattokinase has been promoted as an alternative anticancer treatment based on the notion that it can help dissolve the fibrin coating around a tumor, and increase oxygen supply in the blood to inhibit cancer cell growth. However, these mechanisms have not been proven in humans.
Nattokinase is also purported to treat Alzheimer’s disease and hypertension.
So right away you can see why nattokinase might be attractive to COVID antivax quacks, given that one of the main false claims about these vaccines is that they are causing people to “die suddenly” of clotting disorders leading to strokes and myocardial infarctions (heart attacks). (They aren’t.) It’s also not as though nattokinase doesn’t have activities in vitro (test tube and cell culture) that do have relevance to clotting:
In vitro studies show that nattokinase decreases clot formation by cleaving and inactivating the plasminogen activator inhibitor (PAI) via proteolysis at P1-P1’ peptide bond. PAI is a key inhibitor of tissue plasminogen activator (tPA) that converts plasminogen to plasmin. PAI inactivation allows for greater tPA activity and increased lysis of clots (10) (11). In the absence of PAI, nattokinase affects direct proteolysis of fibrin; however, this effect is less than the protelysis achieved by the PAI-mediated pathway (2). The fibrinolytic activity of nattokinase is estimated to be four-fold that of plasmin (12).
The question, of course, is whether the in vitro activities of nattokinase translate into anything therapeutic in humans. The answer is: We don’t know, but it strikes me as highly improbable. One WebMD perusal of the evidence is full of “maybes” and “possibly,” in which it’s claimed that nattokinase “might” increase your risk of bleeding, decrease your blood pressure, etc., but notes that there’s basically little to no clinical evidence to support these uses.
Which brings us to the main problem. Nattokinase is an enzyme. It should be expected to be digested when taken orally; it would not be expected to get into the bloodstream where it might actually be able to exhibit its ability to break down clots that it exhibits in a test tube. Alexander cites a review article that claims otherwise but immediately got my skeptical antennae twitching with claims such as:
Nattokinase is considered to be a safe, powerful, low cost, and all-natural supplement for the treatment of heart and cardiovascular disease [5,6,7]. Animal [3,4,8] and human trials [9,10,11] have demonstrated that NK provides support to the circulatory system by thinning the blood and dissolving blood clots.
That first sentence is…something. But what about the cited articles? There are animal studies, but I zeroed in on the human studies. There were a couple of randomized studies, such as this one, but what impressed me about them was that none of them ever actually seemed to show that nattokinase actually got into the bloodstream by measuring its concentration in the blood. On the other hand, it does appear from this pharmacokinetic study that nattokinase can get into the bloodstream, but interestingly the study did not say that it detected bioactive nattokinase. Given that it used an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) to detect nattokinase in the blood, it is entirely possible that the antibody in the assay detected consisted of large fragments of degraded nattokinase or nattokinase that had been denatured (the protein unfolded) and was therefore inactive, leading the authors to note that “looking for intact enzyme and bioactive nattokinase peptides should be a consideration for future studies investigating the pharmacokinetic profile of nattokinase.” No kidding, as I noticed that a lot of the human studies of nattokinase (for example, this one) didn’t measure it in the blood even by ELISA. This all left me wondering whether it was actually nattokinase or something else in the concoction that might be affecting what was observed.
Of course, I couldn’t resist doing my own PubMed search on nattokinase to see what sorts of studies had been done more recently on nattokinase. I couldn’t help but immediately find this 2021 double-blind randomized controlled clinical trial that found zero effect of nattokinase versus placebo on the progression of atherosclerotic disease, which is one of the indications claimed for this enzyme. My entire take on nattokinase with respect to clotting and atherosclerosis is that it’s possible that maybe some intact enzyme survives digestion in the gut to be absorbed into the bloodstream to do something therapeutic, but that the evidence that it actually does anything clinically relevant in cardiovascular disease when administered orally is quite weak.
Of course, it didn’t take me long to find that someone tested whether nattokinase can degrade spike protein, because of course someone did. It is, unsurprisingly, an in vitro study in which cells infected with SARS-CoV-2 and lysates from those cells were exposed to different doses of nattokinase and this was observed:
When cell lysates transfected with S protein were incubated with nattokinase, the S protein was degraded in a dose- and time-dependent manner. Immunofluorescence analysis showed that S protein on the cell surface was degraded when nattokinase was added to the culture medium. Thus, our findings suggest that nattokinase exhibits potential for the inhibition of SARS-CoV-2 infection via S protein degradation.
They also appear to have done some of the appropriate controls, such as heating nattokinase to inactivate it or treating it with a protease inhibitor to inhibit its ability to cleave protein strands and observing that such treatments eliminated the ability of nattokinase to cause the degradation of spike protein. A similar study reported that nattokinase could inhibit SARS-CoV-2 infection in cell culture. Of note, both studies were examining whether nattokinase could prevent infection of cells by SARS-CoV-2 not whether the enzyme could degrade spike protein from the vaccine. Overall, it’s a somewhat interesting finding that might or might not lead to the use of nattokinase to treat or alleviate COVID-19 infection. My prediction is that it probably won’t, simply because the vast majority of cell culture results don’t translate to a treatment, but I’ll concede that it’s interesting nonetheless.
Unsurprisingly, Dr. Peter McCullough is all over this study as evidence for, well:
Based on these findings, nattokinase and similar products such as serrapeptase should undergo well-funded, accelerated preclinical and clinical development programs. The issue at hand is the urgency of time, similar to that with SARS-CoV-2 infection and empiric early therapy. It will take up to 20 years to have a fully developed pharmaceutical profile to characterize the safety and efficacy of nattokinase in the treatment of vaccine injury and post-COVID syndromes. Large number of people are sick now and many believe empiric treatment is justified given sufficiently low risk of side effects and potentially high reward. My recommendation is to discuss this with your doctor or seek a specialist in holistic or naturopathic medicine who is experienced with the safety profile of nattokinase in a range of applications.
Notice how McCullough assumes that this will be used for “vaccine injury,” even though the intent of the researchers who published these papers was to explore whether nattokinase can inhibit the infection of human cells by SARS-CoV-2.
Also, unsurprisingly, the quacks have responded. For example, C0lleen Huber, ND (for “not a doctor”), a “naturopathic oncologist” about whom I’ve written a few times before and who has predictably become a COVID-19 quack, chimed in after McCullough’s post:
I have asked my covid-vaccinated patients to take nattokinase 2000 units per day, while running these labs every 3 months: D-dimer, CBC/platelets, fibrinogen, PT/INR. Naturopathic physicians have recommended nattokinase and similar for decades for our cardiovascular patients, and I have never known it to cause new problems. It seems to be generally well-tolerated.
That’s nice. There appears to be nothing in her comment about evidence that it actually works, although she does—surprise! surprise!—prefer ivermectin for COVID:
I would like to be able to give a definitive answer. There are still varying estimates as to how long spike proteins are being generated. I have to say though that nattokinase is not my favorite for blocking or neutralizing effects of spike proteins. Rather, I think that is best done by ivermectin. I wrote about those specific mechanisms here: https://colleenhuber.substack.com/p/ivermectin-is-safe-and-effective
The bottom line is simple. Nattokinase is known to dissolve clots in cell culture. It also appears to dissolve spike protein in cell culture, but, then, it’s a kinase, and dissolving proteins is what kinases do, and this is a subtilisin family serine protease. (Seriously, it also hydrolyzes (breaks down) collagen, a structural protein.) The evidence is weak that it has clinical utility in cardiovascular disease, nonexistent, given that existing evidence is only in vitro, that it combats COVID-19, and fantastical that it somehow combats “COVID-19 vaccine injury” given that the “injuries” claimed by antivaxxers like Alexander and McCullough are basically either not a thing or completely exaggerated.
Quacks gonna quack, though, and McCullough is definitely a quack in my estimation. So is Colleen Huber. No wonder they’re jumping on the nattokinase bandwagon for “COVID-19 vaccine injury” and long COVID.
92 replies on “Nattokinase: The latest COVID-19 spike protein “detox” quackery”
If McCullough is a quack from a duck then you are a cluck from a chicken who is afraid to publicly face him, Malone, Cole, Kory, Thorpe, Vanden Bossche, Bridle or any of the thousands of highly-credentialed medical scientists who oppose Big-Pharma-Controlled Medicine and consider you to be little more than a shill for the industry.
Oh, the Pharma Shill gambit. YAWN
Well, it seems the main thrust of Dr Alexander’s substack article was help McCoullough and VavDeWater pitch her “spike recovery” product,
I think that fits the definition of a quacksalver.
And I wouldn’t trust anyone associated with FLCCC, which seems to have mainly been a front group to sell ivermectin and online consultations at a big markup.
https://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/2022/11/29/anti-covid-vaccine-group-sues-rogue-founder-simone-gold/69677958007/
I wonder who manufactures this ‘unique’ formulation? Does that make The Wellness Company little pharma?
There are over 300 clinical trials currently studying Long Covid-19.
None of them involve nattokinase!
Perhaps these people should use some of these proceeds from FLCCC (perhaps the sale of Gold’s Florida mansion???) to fund such a study. Or they could apply to the Federal Government for funding like Orac does.
You have America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLD), with which Dr. Gold is associated, confused with the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), of which Dr. Pierre Kory, whom I mentioned, is a founder. The FLCCC website is FLCCC.net and you can see the latest interview with Dr. Kory and Dr. Paul Marik (in which Dr. Kory opines on the latest Big-Pharma-sponsored hatchet job on ivermectin at 5 minutes and 30 seconds in) at https://covid19criticalcare.com/global-perspectives-dr-kory-shares-insights-from-recent-trips-to-sweden-and-australia/
Apparently so.
It gets hard to keep the ivermectin pushers sorted out.
Not this AGAIN.
For those reading who still have a functioning reasoning center in their brains:
Kory is a liar who has never managed a covid patient. Those of us who do this everyday know because the things he claims don’t even make sense or are completely detached from how real patient care works in real healthcare settings.
I have had patients DIE from his lies. Die on a vent with those stupid stromectol tabs in their belongings next to the bed.
I don’t give a shit about “big pharma.” If ivermectin worked I’d have a barrel of it on my desk to hand out.
And more generally, our host has addressed debating quacks multiple times, and it’s well known why he thinks it’s a bad idea.
Here is a recent discussion of his point of view.
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2022/02/07/debate-me-bros-in-the-age-of-covid-19-disinformation/
Orac….your essay did not address the main issue…and that is the claim that the spike protein remains in the body for weeks/months post infection or vaccination. That claim is the premise for why a “detox” is necessary.
So, does the spike remain in the body for weeks/months after being vaccinated? What about after infection? Same question about the mRNA in the vaccine that instructs cells to make spikes….that camp has also claimed that remains in body for weeks/months. Does it?
Please provide links to evidence regarding answers to these questions.
There are many articles of SARS CoV 2 viremia:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143400422000716
Viremia means virus and spike protein in blood.
Article antivaxxers refer is his:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143400422000716
Lymph nodes clean spike protein from blood. Presence of anigen in lymph nodes is necessary for effective imune response.
For people stressing out at the thought of spike proteins piling up in their bodies due to “so-called vaccines”, ibogaine (Hunter Thompson’s preferred drug) has been recommended. No need to try to sneak in enzymes past our digestive juices.
“thousands of highly-credentialed medical scientists”
(insert guffaw)
I’ve never had covid but am up-to-date on my boosters. I know for a FACT that I have so much spike protein in my body that it leaks out of my ears and onto my pillow at night. And it’s all because of those vaccinations! Can anyone recommend a detergent to get spike out of my pillowcases?
I’m getting very strong “debate me, bro” vibes from you. I don’t play the whole “love public debate” game that quacks like the love so much.
I’m not challenging you to a debate, which I’m not qualified to engage in, Dr. Gorski, I’m asking you to admit that medical science, the study of what may be the most complex structure in the universe, is still in its infancy and we all need to be as open-minded as we can in considering the views of others – especially highly-credentialed people like Dr. Peter McCullough, the most published cardiologist in the country with extensive experience chairing and serving on data safety monitoring boards, who you irresponsibly, in my opinion, labeled as a quack.
Dr. McCullough is a very humble man, in my opinion, who has been begging for public discussion on critical issues such as how Covid patients have been treated, the safety of the Covid vaccines, and whether our health agencies are being unduly influenced by the financial interests of the pharmaceutical industry. In return he has been subject to censorship, a baseless (in my opinion) lawsuit and persecution, imo, from at least one medical board.
Meanwhile his obvious erudition and gentle manner have gained him a very large following of people who, for the most part, haven’t spent decades studying science and can only judge between him and “mainstream” doctors like yourself by who is willing to publicly listen and discuss, to display some humanity, for the sake of all the people who are confused and trying to decide whether it is safe to get their young child vaccinated or elderly grandparents treated with remdesivir in a hospital – both of which are being questioned, again, not only by Dr. McCullough but by literally thousands of highly-credentialed medical scientists.
With Dr. McCullough now having a much larger following that you have, if I’m not mistaken, you no longer have the excuse of refusing public discussion by saying that you would be giving a platform to a quack, because it would be more true to say that he would be giving you a platform to air your views to his followers.
Nevertheless, I believe that he would agree to a public discussion with you, allowing you to choose the moderator as long as there are fair rules which guarantee each party equal time to speak and respond to what the other has said.
Thank you for allowing comments here – if my first comment hasn’t gotten me banned, like you blocked me on Twitter several years ago.
“Dr. Peter McCullough, the most published cardiologist in…”
I have a kid with a genetic heart disorder. He has seen many cardiologists, especially when he had septal myectomy at the Mayo Clinic.
None of them claimed they had experience in infectious diseases. Other than the cardiac damage they saw on heart valves and heart tissue. They all favor vaccines to protect the heart. And so does my kid’s dentist, who also insists on prophylactic antibiotics before any teeth cleaning and other dental procedures.
All you are proving is that you are gullible.
Effing great. Misspelled my email address.
Oh, the Pharma Shill Gambit. YAWN.
Still gagging at the perception of Ryan Cole as a “highly credentialed medical scientist”.
https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/01/18/washington-medical-board-charges-dr-ryan-cole-with-covid-19-related-violations/
As for being afraid of public debate, Cole was asked for his response to the charges by Medscape, a health professionals website, but refused comment.
I love how almost two decades ago RNA drops were touted as a cure for autism: http://neurodiversity.com/rna.html
And now that mRNA causes bad things to happen like evil spike proteins (which also are in the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus) that can be cured with a variation of fermented soy beans.
Nothing changes other than the names, but some things are still with us: http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/08/pharma-shill-gambit.html
a recent paper, via Dr. Daniel Griffin:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2801827
Effect of Higher-Dose Ivermectin for 6 Days vs Placebo on Time to Sustained Recovery in Outpatients With COVID-19A Randomized Clinical Trial
Got a citation for that Jon? hahahahahahaha
“They are scared and in many instances distraught as to the spike circulating within them. As a result, a spike detoxifier is needed.”
So a detoxifier is required because people are distraught? Isn’t this pushing medication for emotional issues? Pretty sure this is one of the big anti-pharma gripes.
@ NumberWang:
Doesn’t spike itself sound scary? It conjures images of punk rock, biker gangs, barbarians, Roman warriors and torture devices in the Inquisition. I think that’s why they perseverate on “spikes*.
The altie loons I survey have presented various de-toxes which usually include massive doses of vitamins C and D, magnesium, green tea, NAC and other woo. Carrie Madej offered de-tox baths! There’s even a de-tox seminar at prn.live.
Actually, the spike isn’t what people should fear – it’s the stuff the spike allows – the virus itself- into the cell that is dangerous.**
** Joel, PhD, MPH, has explained this so well that readers don’t need my contribution.
That’s very astute, I think. These folks have no idea — at all — as to what a spike protein is, or why it’s called that, but hey!! — it’s a spike!! — hwo can that be good for you?
“Doesn’t spike itself sound scary?”
I once worked with a radio personality known as “Spike at the mike”. The only scary part was surviving on a radio salary.
SARS-CoV-2 shillelagh is more accurate in terms of shape.
I suspect people think that the spike actually punctures cells somehow. It doesn’t. The receptor binding domain of the S protein binds chemically to … the receptor site! If this is on a cell that expresses the enzyme transmembrane protease, serine 2 (TMPRSS2), the spike is cleaved by TMPRSS “reaching up” from the cell surface. The cleavage causes reconformation of the spike protein, with the result that the spike pulls the virion down into intimate contact with membrane of the cell. The membranes of the virion and the cell fuse and the viral nucleocapsid enters the cell. (the virion’s membrane was stolen from the host cell where it was assembled; the spikes protrude through membrane or envelope as they do in “all” enveloped viruses; the SARS-CoV-2 spike seems to be a bit longer than typical)
The mRNA in the vaccines codes for a modified spike protein that is locked in the pre-fusion conformation so TMPRSS2 doesn’t cause reconformation. As I understand it, this is for reasons of epitope presentation. I don’t think that cleaving S protein unattached to a virus particle would do anything of consequence – there’s no virion to pull down onto the cell. I guess it might tie up receptor sites.
“Ice cream cone protein” doesn’t elicit the same fear response, does it?
There is a Dutch musician with the nickname Spike.
I am old enough to think of Spike Jones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Jones
Mostly from Dr. Demento playing his songs in the late 1970s.
And then there is Spike Lee, a movie maker. My favorite was his take on Lysistrata.
I had thought of Spike Lee too. He had a TV show in the 50’s so you can watch videos of a lot of his songs.
Also director Spike Jonze – not his real name. OBVIOUSLY
Sounds like a job for a homeopathic remedy! We can cure any harms that shedding and circulating of spike proteins can do with this, and you can make it at home nice and easy.
First, pour a glass of water. Then, exhale on it, so that it collects some shed spike(*).
Now spin it around a bit to shake it up, then pour out most of the water. Then fill it up again. Spin it around again.
Now, depending on how worried you are, you can repeat the process. Just keep pouring out most of the water, filling up the glass, and shaking it.
Then drink your glass of remedy. That’ll cleanse you of all the harms that shedding spike proteins can possibly do!
(*)obviously this is all bullshit, but given the lack of real harms for spike shedding/circulating . . .
Re: Paul Alexander:
Funny that insistance on “gene”. I hear some dog whistle for “vaccines are genetic therapies”.
“Especially” ? Also funny, since “classical” live-attenuated vaccines (which may or may not be available now, but which contrarians are clamoring for), and the adenovirus-based vaccines, are also “gene platforms”, carrying the spike gene inside your cells..
On some other blog, a troll or two recently tried to rile us by mentioning the aluminium and mercury in the mRNA vaccines. The mRNA vaccines don’t have either, they don’t need it.
These trolls may have just be trying to troll, but I cannot rule out some people do rant about aluminium and mercury being present.
These are not on the ingredient lists, so the metals are put in sneakily by Big Pharma, of course.
And the ad vector vaccines actually get DNA that codes for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein into the nuclei of transfected cells! Of course virtually all DNA viruses do that, with a notable exception being the pox viruses.
My response to “mRNA-DNA gene injection” was “Huh? mRNA-DNA? What is that supposed to mean? I suppose it might be somehow referring to the vector vaccines but I doubt it. I’m more inclined to believe it is something from someone whose grasp of what mRNA and DNA are is very weak. Or simply someone intentionally trying to make the vaccines sound more scary. But no one would willfully do such a thing, would they? That would be despicable!
Yeah the toxic metal gambit being applied to mRNA vaccines is especially DUMB
And to think before this day my main gripe about nattokinase was that it wasn’t actually a kinase…
Spot on. Kinases add a phosphate group.
You’d have thought that Japan would have some decent data on the benefits of nattokinase. Given that natto is an acquired taste, even in Japan, there should be a good control group.
Do not underestimate the tragedy of the situation, where a large number of people are scared for their health due to bad experiences with Covid vaccines, or Covid itself, and usually both. Many vaccinated people are NOT Covid vaccine enthusiasts and were forced to take the mystery vaccine to avoid losing their jobs, due to vaccine mandates. Those are the first to note negative effects the vaccine had on their health, as they have no cognitive dissonance to work through.
I know two such persons personally, and as the author of a small blog, many of my subscribers are vaccinated and worried about their future. They ask me “what can I do to get rid of spike protein/mRNA/persistent Covid virus/whatever?”
Their desire is understandable. What if, they say, I could buy a bottle of pills that would cure me? No surprise that entrepreneurs would exploit this desire and sell something.
If asked, I do not badmouth any medications but suggest to get as healthy as possible and to suntan within reason.
I am not a doctor and not a scientist, but in my opinion, the health problems of vaccinated people are not because of what IS in their bodies, but because of what is no longer in their bodies, such as a functional immune system, healthy heart etc.
Think about a home that is vandalized by a gang of miscreants, who break dishes, defecate inside the baby grand piano etc. Before the vandalism takes place, the house would benefit from stronger doors, burglary alarms, etc. But after the act, the vandals are gone, such things will not help — the good things that gave its residents joy are simply not there any longer.
Same is with the vaccine, mRNA and spike protein. After a few months, the vaccine is gone — what we have is aftereffects — and it is as late to cleanse spike protein as it would be to try to chase out vandals who already lefts weeks ago.
So, would nattokinase help? I have no idea but I am skeptical.
“Think about a home that is vandalized by a gang of miscreants, who break dishes, defecate inside the baby grand piano etc”
That’s a pretty good description of the Substack gang that fearmongers about vaccines and other anti-Covid measures in order to profit.
At the very least, Igor, bag your turds after pooping in the grand piano.
I thought the gang who broke in somewhere and defecated inappropriately was the January 6 riot? Featuring Mr. Big Tree, Roger Stone, America’s Flatline Doctors and other notables.
“So, would nattokinase help? I have no idea but I am skeptical.”
Skeptical is not an appropriate replacement for ignorant.
@ Igor Chudov
You write: “After a few months, the vaccine is gone”
You just continue to display your immensely biased ignorance. After a few months, memory B-cells that create antibodies and T-cells remain. I guess you don’t even understand why with many diseases, once suffering from them, if we survive, we don’t get them again, regardless of how often we are exposed. All vaccines do is create the memory B and T cells while avoiding us having to suffer from the actual disease.
It is both fascinating and frightening how your comments have been refuted by a number of people, often giving both clear scientific explanations and even linking to valid papers; yet nothing affects you. It is frightening because, unfortunately, you represent a large number of people. I guess ignorance is bliss???
“I am not a doctor and not a scientist, but in my opinion, the health problems of vaccinated people are not because of what IS in their bodies, but because of what is no longer in their bodies, such as a functional immune system, healthy heart etc.”
Good thing we can ignore your “opinion”, which has nothing to do with reality.
Only about 25,500 people have died in the U.S. this year from Covid-19.
That’s about the annual number of U.S and allied military deaths in the Viet Nam war.
And 32% of the U.S. population is not fully vaccinated with the basic 2 shot series.
The radioactive and luminescent tracing of the components showed that practically all of the vaccine components gets metabolized and flushed from the body in about 28 days. We can detect little bits of spike in the blood partly because our technology is so good at detecting minute quantities.
And you never worry about the much larger quantities of the same proteins, other proteins and whole viruses that get produced in an actual infection.
Most of that fear you agonize over is due to vaccine fearmongers who minimize or ignore those deaths and play on the scientific ignorance of their audience to ramp up fear of the vaccines.
Show us real evidence of harm and I’ll be glad to look at it. We have made changes in our vaccine recommendations based on such evidence.
But I don’t think that is what you are really interested in.
@ Igor Chudov:
Many people are afraid of Covid and / or the Covid vaccine. Of the latter, fears are rather unjustified similar to those of people who are afraid of dying in a plane crash which is highly unlikely ( 1 in 11 millions)**. Covid itself is much scarier although no vaccine is without risk. And yes, planes do crash.
Notice that Orac, physicians and other well educated people who write here are NOT afraid of vaccines. They read research and understand the odds.
To continue to be afraid when you understand the actual very low risks of vaccines works against your own best interests. Less informed people may fall prey to alt med or anti-vax purveyors who distort the odds to make it appear that the vaccine is more dangerous than the illness : this idea is as old as the hills amongst these mis-informers.
So why do they do that? They’re contrarians and want an audience. Some sell media, supplements and health foods. Their philosophy relies upon natural methods*** to combat illness not meds or vaccines. They often take odd positions on health and social, political and economic issues as well: it’s their brand. In addition, they dismiss medical experts, universities, governmental agencies and the media who support vaccination: these groups all plotted together to hide the truth they say.
HOWEVER, for that to be true, a massive worldwide conspiracy would have to be initiated, managed and maintained over decades without anyone spilling the beans. The medical infrastructure is worldwide not just in the US, UK or English-speaking world – there are many other countries, many researchers and scores of corporations- some of them adversarial, not at all friendly co-conspirators.
A conspiracy that large would be unlikely to work: wouldn’t an involved scientist or manager having experienced ill effects of a vaccine or med themself or in their family, speak up? Wouldn’t a rival company or nation reveal another’s secrets? Wouldn’t a researcher disprove the ‘lies’ and reap the benefits of fame and fortune?
Because I study alt med and anti-vax writers, I can tell you that many**** of the most quoted and well known have little or NO university or grad/ medical school level life science or psychology.
They’re poseurs who preach to people who know even less, cosplaying as professors/ scientists/ saviours often giving their paucity of knowledge away to people who actually studied these subjects. I used to list their gaffes here as comic relief.
Which group do you want to be associated with?
** I actually slightly ‘knew’ someone who died in a plane crash: my friend’s sisters gave her a graduation party and one of their daughters grew up to be a flight attendant who died in a famous crash ( not 9/11)
*** although we can question how ‘natural’ supplements or powdered fruits and vegetables really are
**** physicians are an exception who may have ulterior motives
Denice, the “massive conspiracy” you are referring to is easily explained by masses of people following perverse incentives, grants, government advertising money, and so on.
In addition, I would like to point out that numerous doctors and medical luminaries withdrew their support for “Covid vaccines”.
And now the department of energy is confirming that Covid is a result of a “lab leak”. Except, of course, it was not an accidental “leak” and China should not be the sole object of blame.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a
Stop conflating these two things. STOP IT.
Did it get leaked from a lab? Maybe. We may never know.
The vaccines are SAFE. SAFE.
SAFE.
Proof of some sort of willful ignorance or whatever you imagine about the first does not make the second untrue. No matter how much you want it to.
I’m a real doctor in the real world who sees real patients. I don’t give a damn about Fauci, the AMA, or any of your other boogeymen. I don’t get orders from anyone. EVER. I routinely ignore guidance from expert consensus when doing something else would be more beneficial for my patient. There are tens of thousands of us.
Your delusional idea that we all got brainwashed and uncritically accept whatever the CDC, AMA, or whoever tell us is NONSENSE.
Here’s an example:
1) I say the covid vaccines are some of the safest in history (don’t take my word, there are ample studies)
2) I also say that Ecohealth Alliance could have screwed up royally and created this thing, which got loose by accident. I further state Fauci could be spewing “Noble lies” because he wants to protect that research. I certainly cannot conclusively prove otherwise. It also may have come from a palm civet, etc.
Get it, now? We’re not drones doing the bidding of some evil overlord and where this virus came from has no bearing on whether the vaccines are safe.
I am glad that you and other people here are seeing the possibility and likelihood that the virus came from a lab.
I am sure that my role in changing your mind was almost negligible, but I hope that at least you did see some arguments I made previously.
I got a lot of flack here for insisting that the virus came from a lab, from people who thought they knew something but actually did not, and suffered from misplaced trust.
==> where this virus came from has no bearing on whether the vaccines are safe.
From a decision making point of view, this is not correct. In regards to Covid origin, you and I just got cheated by “virologists” and, as you mention, by Dr Fauci, the press, the UN, major scientific publications, fact-checkers, Dr Hotez, major Internet companies, and others.
Remember how they insisted that “lab origin” was “anti-Asian hate”? And how they insisted that “lab origin” was crazy right-wing conspiracy thinking? That campaign was manipulative and coordinated, from the beginning. (and it was obvious)
If so, should we have trusted THE SAME PEOPLE with their assertions that “the vaccine is safe and effective”? Such assertions are as baseless as saying that “lab origin” is anti-Asian hate. Saying that the vaccine was safe and effective, was baseless as there was not enough time to see safety of the Covid vaccine, a new technology concoction against a HIV-gene-carrying lab-designed coronavirus. It already ended up being ineffective.
The answer is, obviously, no, we should not blindly trust people who already proved their dishonesty with the origin of Covid, with a mysterious biologic they wanted to inject into everyone.
Excess mortality was through the roof in December 2022, and it is time to start worrying. Even if you think “it is only due to Covid”, we have plenty of reasons to be very worried for the future of humanity.
P.S. I do not believe that Covid is solely the fault of China. The story of the origin of Sars-Cov-2 definitely involves scientists and labs outside of China.
From the WSJ story:
“The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.”
And the story notes that other federal sources have leaned toward an animal vector.
We should have low confidence in any claims made by “Igor Chudov”. He has a very flimsy grasp on “truth”.
Right.
The Guardian, today ( paraphrase), reports that the energy department’s update runs counter to four other intelligence agencies’ opinions about natural transmission: from an animal source.
Scoffers should read every sentence in articles.
Igor Chudov seems to put a lot of effort into grasping at straws.
I’ve been watching Flat Earth debunking videos, the vast majority of which include clips from flerfers’ videos. I think Igor Chudov would probably make a “good” flerfer. He seems to have the right sort of mindset. They, too, are heavily reliant on confirmation bias and greatly afflicted by the Dunning-Kruger effect.
@ Igor
I cannot read the full WSJ article, but further searching about the report (CNN, the Guardian) indicates your “confirming” is going too far. The Energy Department report is an assessment with “low confidence” (their own description of it) that it was an accidental lab leak.
I do have a WSJ subscription. But here’s a neat trick for you: archival website archive.ph has a lot of paywall articles un-paywalled. Not sure how they accomplish it.
Just search that website for the newspaper article URL you want to read. Works for WSJ, NYTimes, and many more publications, except for the Economist.
WSJ article: https://archive.is/knkjg
Looks like a topic for Orac to discuss when he’s ready.
Especially media response.
I would directly quote his twitter but leave that to him personally.
DOE says that lab leak is “most likely”. Not same thing as confirming. Intelligence agencies are known to praise wisdom of current governments, too.
You think everyone who disagrees with you are paid by big pharma. It would be lots of money. Have you noticed that you antivax for money ? Same applies to man other antivaxxers
When I google, I get lots of SCAM ads. Yet lots of people still disagree Ad money is not as effective as you hink.
President Biden asked the intelligence agencies to produce a report so they wrote one. AFAIK, there is no new information from some inside source to confirm the presence of the virus inside the lab prior to the cases. So it’s basically just an informed opinion.
In either case, the virus is everywhere and we still have to deal with it.
Igor, I don’t think I could provide a better example of confirmation bias if I tried.
@ Igor:
You entirely miss my point:.
alt med / anti-vax all rest upon a massive conspiracy theory that cannot possibly be true. They believe that vaccines/ meds are dangerous and that governments/ universities/ media et al have covered that up for decades. Actually, it is now 25 years that Wakefield published his infamous study – although he was not the first anti-vaxxer. Read what Orac and Brian Deer write about that ( their new articles this week).
More recent grumblings about how Covid vaccines don’t work/ are dangerous as well as dismissing public health measures neatly fall in line following that template. For any denialism to proceed a conspiracy/ coverup must be involved. Usually, the government hid the facts or a pharmaceutical company lied. Right now, denialism is occurring about the origins of Covid: although there is considerable mixed opinion from several intelligence agencies, particular sources and advocates stress “lab origins” ( see RFK jr; WSJ). HOWEVER, other agencies say otherwise. There is no decisive evidence.
Alt med/ anti-vaxxers misuse information and rely upon conspiracies to explain what they cannot prove through research. Chemotherapy is more dangerous than cancer; anti-retrovirals harm patients more than hiv. Vaccines cause autism and a host of other conditions. BUT they cannot show any of this through studies so they try to demolish researchers, institutions and their findings by making all of it part of a devious plot. Governments in league with corporations to destroy people’s lives. Why would this extend beyond national boundaries to include possible adversaries like Russia, Iran or China? Everyone is working together? To harm their own citizens? Rival companies ( Pfizer, Moderna, EU based, Russian, Chinese, Indian) cooperating?
While I believe you are stupid enough to believe that I’m absolutely sure that you have no clue how much money it would take for scientists, lab techs, medical experts, and statisticians the world over to sacrifice their reputations.
Here’s a hint: there isn’t enough money, and your conspiracy mongering is simply more bullshit from you.
The WSJ article is paywalled. However, Axios reported on the story.
<blockquote?Driving the news: Department of Energy scientists concluded in a “low confidence” assessment that COVID-19 most likely arose from a laboratory leak, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.
The department was previously undecided on a cause, and the new report underscored how American intelligence is split over the answer, with none having reached a conclusion with a high degree of confidence.
https://www.axios.com/2023/02/27/covid-lab-leak-assessment-debate
Anyone predisposed to a lab leak theory will overlook the “low confidence” assessment.
To expand about mis-informers:
counterhate.com ( CCDH) has articles about the “Disinformation Dozen” and “Substack Millionaires” that illustrate who these people are and how they operate as well as how much money they make. Worth reading.
You’ll notice that some of them are physicians although many are NOT.
Whenever I find a physician who proselytises in this manner, I smell deception because many of the tropes they rely upon to scare people about vaccines contradict general medical/ biological information. Orac and his regulars often point out these details.
Amongst the non-physicians, we find people with little or no education in medicine, biology and psychology although they blithely pontificate about these subjects ( as well as the economy, education, geopolitics et al). I’ve investigated these individuals’ educations:
1.no standard university degree in any subject relying upon a career business school, alternate pathways to a degree and a mail order PhD
2. home schooled; no record of any secondary school or university study. Technical school for television production only
3. an accredited university degree in technical writing
4. accredited degrees in law only
5. an accredited degree in philosophy only
If you really do not have an immune sysem, you should live inside a buble:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Vetter
funny you run some sort of math site Igor when your mathing clearly sucks. are you a shill for Big Dummy?
Love it
Somewhere Redd Foxx is nodding approvingly.
That calls for a glass of champipple.
Igor, if we are to believe you, no matter what “issue” is discussed about the dangers of the vaccine you know a handfull of people who suffer from it.
The real issue is clear to me: you are the common factor in all of these people’s ailments and, using logic similar to yours, I’d suggest that all the people you know stay the hell away from you in order to protect themselves,
Why buy nattokinase supplements when natto beans are sold on Amazon for only $30 plus per pound? From one ad:
“The soybeans turn sticky and develop a very distinct flavor that can be likened to strong aged cheese.”
Yum!
“Richest food source of vitamin K2 (about 5-10 mcg per 1 gram on average). – Natto has the fibrinolytic enzyme nattokinase. – Pyrroloquinoline Quinone (PQQ), new research has shown natto to be a uniquely high source of PQQ. – Probiotic, for a healthy digestive system. Natto is fermented by the Bacillus subtilis bacteria. Additionally, Natto has 10 grams of High-Quality Vegetable Protein per 2 oz serving. Dietary changes and the industrialization of food production has lead to deficiencies unimaginable 50 years ago. Fermented foods such as natto, tempeh, miso, sauerkraut, pickles, and so on, play an important part in regaining the health we once took for granted.
Ferment your way to great health!
At the end of the article you twice refer to nattokinase as a kinase. The linked WikiPedia article states that it is not a kinase (the etymology is nattokin-ase, not natto-kinase), and is instead a protease. Did you mean protease?
As usual, it boils down to “if people I don’t like support it, I’m against it, and if they’re against it, I’m for it.” Beyond the omnipresent grifting, they are simply juvenile contrarians.
I haven’t tried it yet but I understand there is natto sushi.
@ Portnoy Bliss
You write: “So, does the spike remain in the body for weeks/months after being vaccinated? What about after infection? ”
Here are three papers available on internet:
David Gorski (2021 May 24). The “deadly” coronavirus spike protein | Science-Based Medicine.
Catalina Jaramillo (2021 Jul 1). COVID-19 Vaccine-Generated Spike Protein is Safe, Contrary to Viral Claims – FactCheck.org.
Nebraska Medicine (2022 Nov 1). How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body? | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE.
I could give references to your question about how long mRNA stays in body; but it would be a waste of time as you’ve made clear your mind is made up; however, I’ll just state that mRNA breaks down quickly and remains in blood for less than two weeks. However, since the actual COVID virus reproduces in our cells, as opposed to one time vaccine, its mRNA can continue as long as virus continues.
@ Jon Schultz
Question one: If a doctor prescribes insulin to a diabetic, given the huge profits pharmaceutical companies make on insulin, does that mean doctor is shill for drug industry? The price of insulin in US far exceeds other nations where drug industry makes a reasonable profit; however profit doesn’t determine if something is beneficial or not.
Next questions: Do you understand even the basics of immunology? If you did, you would understand what memory B-cells, which create antibodies, and memory T-cells are and how they are created, which is what vaccines do, create them without first allowing us to suffer from actual disease. Do you know the history of vaccine-preventable diseases? Do you understand what mRNA is?
The bottom line is that one can support vaccines by understanding the above without being a shill for the pharmaceutical industry. In fact, I am outraged that our government does NOT do something about the absurd excess profits currently being made on the Moderna vaccine given we funded both most of basic research and applied research; but profits don’t determine if something is beneficial or not. The EU does a much better job of controlling prices; yet allowing drug companies to make reasonable profits.
As for a public debate. Science doesn’t work that way. In a public debate, first, one of debaters may have more charisma, thus audience impressed. Also, unless audience understands the science, swayed more by biases, etc. Surveys have found that over 70% of American public lack basic understanding of science. And time constraints on debates don’t allow to actually explain things well.
You write: “any of the thousands of highly-credentialed medical scientists who oppose Big-Pharma-Controlled Medicine”
I don’t know where you get your numbers; but I am fluent at several languages and the Public Health websites of, for instance, Sweden, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany all support the COVID vaccines. It is actually the vast overwhelming number of doctors, immunologists, microbiologists, epidemiologists, and public health workers around the world who support the COVID vaccines.
One can always find a few people in any profession who deviate from the majority. On rare occasions in the past they have have been right; but given advances in scientific methodology, quality peer-reviewed journals, etc. probability extremely low.
So, please explain why you believe the list of doctors you gave or do they just confirm your unscientific irrational bias.
By the way, attacking Orac rather than addressing what he writes is called the Logical Fallacy of Ad Hominem attacks.
Someone can be anti-drug industry; yet support insulin and someone can work for drug industry and support insulin. Question is: what is the scientific basis for insulin; not is it profitable or not.
I work with a lot of great pharmacists in a variety of settings. They have a PharmD. I don’t know a single one who would call him or herself “Doctor.”
I’m usually not a nutter about this like some of my colleagues but I’m starting to think if you ever use the title “Doctor” in a healthcare context to imply you are a physician when you’re not, there should be repercussions. It’s sort of like impersonating a police officer to get over on people. Enough of this is really enough.
Context: I’ve had a really bad week in clinic after a PA left whose contract was not renewed. He managed patients extremely poorly. Several of us are trying to do triage and undo the damage. His former patients are still calling him “Doctor.”
@ Jon Schultz
IVERMECTIN. Since the overwhelming majority of people infected with COVID-19 don’t end up hospitalized and if hospitalized don’t die, giving Ivermectin to them with result in the vast majority doing OK, not because of Ivermectin; but because they would have in any case. You cite people who rest on anecdotal evidence, case studies, and small studies. There have now been a number of well-designed placebo-controlled randomized double-blinded studies that have found that Ivermectin does NOT work and also a number of large cohort studies. I won’t bother giving references because it is obvious you don’t understand and don’t accept science, simply basing your comments on an unscientific ignorant bias.
How many times have we heard “I know ivermectin works because I used it and got better”? These same people tell us “99% of people don’t die,” completely oblivious to the fact that these statements are contradictory.
Last time I had covid I drank iced tea. I know it works because I got better.
@ Joel A. Harrison
“There have now been a number of well-designed placebo-controlled randomized double-blinded studies that have found that Ivermectin does NOT work…”
Like this one? https://c19ivm.org/activ6ivm.html
How much time have you spent listening to or reading Dr. Kory and the other doctors of the FLCCC? If you were familiar with the details of what they have been screaming for the past two years – and are an open-minded person – I simply don’t think you could say that. I’ve spent maybe 50 hours and very strongly feel these people are honest and courageous maverick scientists speaking truth to power out of a dedication to saving peoples’ lives.
“Honest and courageous.” You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
I’ve read and seen more of these quacks than I ever cared to and am sadly quite familiar with the FLCCC. I’ve come to the conclusion that they are quacks and grifters every bit as bad as—and arguably worse than—cancer quack Stanislaw Burzynski, whom I used to write a lot about a decade ago and who is still, unfortunately, around and taking advantage of desperate cancer patients.
SIGH. Once again: Ivermectin doesn’t work or all of us HONEST docs who see real patients in the real world would hand it out like candy. Kory is a liar. See above.
I could watch 50 hours of Ancient Aliens that doesn’t mean any of the bullshit they are spouting is true.
The regulars are familiar with the various anonymous “meta-analysis sites”, but for anyone else the following may be of interest:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/the-anonymous-meta-analysis-thats-convincing-people-to-use-ivermectin/
@ Portnoy Bliss
You write: “So, does the spike remain in the body for weeks/months after being vaccinated? What about after infection?
Check out the three references below, all available on the internet. Basically, the spike protein from the vaccine lasts a short time, less than a couple of weeks; however, pieces of it can be found later. However, if the actual virus attacks someone, then as long as it continues to produce more viruses, it continues to produce spike proteins. Also, the vaccine spike proteins were modified so they can’t change confirmation. I won’t bother to explain. As for mRNA, it breaks down quickly, perhaps a couple of days. I won’t bother giving references because it is clear your unscientific antivax bias.
David Gorski (2021 May 24). The “deadly” coronavirus spike protein | Science-Based Medicine.
Catalina Jaramillo (2021 Jul 1). COVID-19 Vaccine-Generated Spike Protein is Safe, Contrary to Viral Claims – FactCheck.org.
Nebraska Medicine (2022 Nov 1). How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body? | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE.
The TTNQ (time to new quackery) for anti-vaxxers remains suprisingly slow. Given all the pre-existing background alt.meddy claims for nattokinase, it took covid quacks a while to repackage it for their purposes. I shouldn’t complain. Maybe this is a backup plan for when the HCQ/Ivermectim swindling dies down (literally).
Medical boards are finally going after people who misused their licenses to profit off writing IVM scripts up my way. FINALLY.
I ran into someone the other day at an ATLS refresher I used to work with in an ER. A state board member who says they are up to their ears in IVM complaints. They’re going after the five worst offenders which makes me think there are many more, which is disconcerting by itself.
First up? One who can be conclusively linked to several deaths in high risk patients to whom he/she gave IVM without ever meeting them, examine them, or knowing their history (didn’t even write a note on them.) unsurprisingly, this ghoul also told them not to get vaccinated and write some bible quote on the Rx. This stuff is out of a bad novel!
(Note-I have no issue with religion just thought it was funny how often people abuse it)
Again, if this was just rank stupidity that was harmless like “oh you had covid? Here’s some IVM it’ll make you feel better” I could shake my head and ignore it. To suggest it prevents disease or is a replacement for the vaccine really is either:
A) Criminal
B) Malpractice
Motive depending, of course.
Dispatches from Crazytown:
I was behind a Kia Soul at a traffic light today with this message plastered across its rear window:
“Flight Attendant Onboard
Pilots and FAs are DYING from C19 Vaxes
Help us fight for our Medical Freedoms
I’m guessing the odds of death are considerably higher when you completely obliterate your rear vision, compared to vaccination.
Today’s front page headline in the N.Y. Daily News, referring to the DOE’s “low confidence” conclusion of a Covid lab leak in China:
“IT HAD TO BE WU”
“Pilots and FAs are DYING from C19 Vaxes Help us fight for our Medical Freedoms”
Because, of course, a flight attendant doesn’t come into contact with hundreds of people every day, traveling from all over the planet. How many planeloads of people could one FA infect?
I still come across people claiming to know someone who was harmed or died from vaccines, all of them antivaxxers. Whether that’s in social media, comment sections of various online resources and news and conversations overheard in public (coffee shops, pubs etc). Not only that, but it’s not just one person but numerous. I did a quick poll to my ex work colleagues asking the same thing ‘do you know anyone who has had a bad reaction or died shortly after accination’. A resounding no was the result. So why don’t they, why do I not know anyone. Is it the circle of friends we keep or is it just a case that anti vaxxers lie. I suspect they do.
I had very similar results to you:
amongst people I know or know indirectly ( thru my SO or my cousin who each have many, many contacts), no one reported vaccine “injury” but I directly and indirectly know of 3 Covid fatalities before vaccines were inaugurated .
“I noticed that a lot of the human studies of nattokinase (for example, this one) didn’t measure it in the blood even by ELISA. This all left me wondering whether it was actually nattokinase or something else in the concoction that might be affecting what was observed.”
There was no “concoction” in the Kurosawa study, your linked example and perhaps the strongest study cited by Dr. McCullough, only nattokinase: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4479826/pdf/srep11601.pdf
[…] I described his advocacy of yet more COVID-19 quackery, this time claiming that nattokinase can be used to “detox” yourself from spike protein from COVID-19 vaccines and thus treat “vaccine injury.” However, this was far from the […]
[…] co-authoring dubious scientific review articles full of antivax disinformation, and even selling an “anti-spike protein supplement” to cleanse you of COVID-19 vaccine damage. Meanwhile, he’s rejecting accusations of having become a […]
[…] his advocacy of yet more COVID-19 quackery, specifically a claim that nattokinase can be used to “detox” yourself from spike protein from COVID-19 vaccines and thus treat “vaccine injury.” However, this was far from the first […]